My first Ebay Headache

[gingerscards]

OK, not my first, but been a couple years since having any issues, I have been real lucky

So here is the story,

I sold a 2000 Tom Brady Bowman Rc Card # 236 to seller ibefine121,

the transaction was June 20, 2017,

my Listing was a BIN, ibefine121 made offer I countered with $200 and ibefine121 accepted.

fast forward to ibefine121 receives the 2000 bowman tom brady card # 236 on June 23rd, 2017 , tracking # 9402109699937685244717

Yeah I am quick and I also pack things real good for those who know me,

So far so good and that day John> ibefine121 leaves feedback for the deal

I would like to point out I sent a Gem Mint Raw copy of 2000 Bowman Tom Brady Rc Card #236 and I have plenty of scans to prove how nice it was.


back to feedback, here is what John left after receiving said card

Smooth Transaction! A++++ Honest! Buyer:
Member id
ibefine121 (
Feedback Score Of
5747Green star icon for feedback score in between 5,000 to 9,999)
During past month
2000 Bowman Football Tom Brady #236 RC 5X Superbowl Champion GOAT NE Patriots (#172731572401)
US $279.99
Best Offer Price was Accepted This item was listed in fixed price format with a Best Offer option. The seller accepted a Best Offer price.

Fast forward to today 7/16/2017, I wake up to this message :

New message from: ibefine121 (5,747Green Star)
Ginger.

I asked several people and the Brady card purchased from you has been considered fake. Please get back to me regarding a refund.

Thanks,

John


????? Seriously, over 5000 feedback and cant tell the difference on a card that is not known for fakes at all, lol, reprints yes but those have the Heritage logo on the front of the card in bold gold, anyhow, FAKE , lol,.

So my first thought is WTF Fake are you kidding me, then I settle down and think , maybe this guy is trying to do a bait and swtitch move and send me back a crappy copy of the Brady bowman rc or send me back something else all together and claim a return on a $200 item,

Well I contacted Ebay right away with a email asking for help, I will be calling them shortly. I do not have much faith in Ebay helping or protecting me, I am racking my brain now on what to do next to protect myself.


I hope I laid this story out correctly, lol.

here is the card in question, I have posted it on here in the football talk section " Recent mail day Brady style and others ", when I first got it from a member here in a trade for a 2014 Kyle Schwarber bowman chrome rc auto.


Yeah right, Looks fake to me, LOL

2000 Bowman Rc

DSC07870 by Virginia Neri, on Flickr
DSC07875 by Virginia Neri, on Flickr

[Siberian13]

Sounds like John ran out of crack or meth and needs that next hit more than the Brady card. Hope he sends the correct one back. I assume you have to take the return based on how awesome eBay is?

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Siberian13

Sounds like John ran out of crack or meth and needs that next hit more than the Brady card. Hope he sends the correct one back. I assume you have to take the return based on how awesome eBay is?

I just got off the phone with Ebay, I do not waste time , lol.
So far it was only a email message and he has not started the actual return claim yet, I got shaken by the email and well rightfully so, we all know if I bend over someone will try to stick it in, lol.
I am worried I will not get the mint Brady bowman rc back but something else entirely if I do a return. Ebay said not to a worry, lol yeah right, to keep communicating with buyer for now until he decided to start the claim, they said it is 30 refund policy but they will look at the circumstances surrounding the claim, I made it known the Brady was mint and that I will not accept a bait and switch return.
He left feedback and is on his last days of the 30 to make claim on their policy,

I just do not get it, he got a great card that is high in demand and it is real hard to find a gem mint raw copy. this is why I do not think buyer remorse but a bait and switch scam.

[SamAxe51]

Just a question... but why did you not grade that card?

It would be authenticated & surely it would have sold for more.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by SamAxe51

Just a question... but why did you not grade that card?

It would be authenticated & surely it would have sold for more.

Needed the money , I wanted to send to PSA feeling a 9 for sure and sales close to 300..
But need the PayPal for other guys.

[gingerscards]

OK, got a message today, 9 days later ??

New message from: ibefine121 (5,757Green Star)
Hey Ginger,

I am really sorry but just showed the card to two different shop owners and they both are questioning the card stock. I was going to try to sell it and not bother you with it but I had a few offers but I just cant sell it to somebody thinking it is not real. I can two things: I can send the card out for authentication and slabbed (if the card is fake would you pay for the authentication process?) or I can just return it. I apologize but I have to find out or return it.

Thanks,

John

I am stumped, I do not know what to think or do from this point, I replied saying the same thing I said prior, leave it to the pros at PSA/Beckett/SCG to grade and authenticate if needed. Even suggested a Raw Review Show to have him do it in person.
I also told him, I will not be paying for that service or if he wants to send it in, like he asked.
I contacted Ebay again, it is past the initial 30 days for return

I originally got the card from member: Coug46n2 via trade, I have handled, owned and still own many of these 2000 Bowman Tom Brady rc card #236 and in all my years, I have never heard of one being FAKE??? Has anyone else heard of this ??? .

[xDomePatrolx]

let him send it off , by the time he gets it back it should be past the 30 days

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by xDomePatrolx

let him send it off , by the time he gets it back it should be past the 30 days

I think it is past that 30 days now, was bought and received by him back on June 23rd.

[Chris Lyle]

Let him send it off.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Let him send it off.

I replied saying same thing or take it to a raw review if one comes local to him.

[27tinman]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

OK, got a message today, 9 days later ??

New message from: ibefine121 (5,757Green Star)
Hey Ginger,

I am really sorry but just showed the card to two different shop owners and they both are questioning the card stock. I was going to try to sell it and not bother you with it but I had a few offers but I just cant sell it to somebody thinking it is not real. I can two things: I can send the card out for authentication and slabbed (if the card is fake would you pay for the authentication process?) or I can just return it. I apologize but I have to find out or return it.

Thanks,

John

I am stumped, I do not know what to think or do from this point, I replied saying the same thing I said prior, leave it to the pros at PSA/Beckett/SCG to grade and authenticate if needed. Even suggested a Raw Review Show to have him do it in person.
I also told him, I will not be paying for that service or if he wants to send it in, like he asked.
I contacted Ebay again, it is past the initial 30 days for return

I originally got the card from member: Coug46n2 via trade, I have handled, owned and still own many of these 2000 Bowman Tom Brady rc card #236 and in all my years, I have never heard of one being FAKE??? Has anyone else heard of this ??? .

There are fakes of the Bowman Brady out there (I own one), but the fakes I've seen are extremely obvious as they do not have any foil stamping on the front of the card. The fakes look like photocopies of an original Brady Rookie.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by 27tinman

There are fakes of the Bowman Brady out there (I own one), but the fakes I've seen are extremely obvious as they do not have any foil stamping on the front of the card. The fakes look like photocopies of an original Brady Rookie.

Cool, that is good info to know, thank you, is first I heard of fakes on this card, the gold stamping makes sense with photocopy look.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by 27tinman

There are fakes of the Bowman Brady out there (I own one), but the fakes I've seen are extremely obvious as they do not have any foil stamping on the front of the card. The fakes look like photocopies of an original Brady Rookie.

I dont own one, but have seen them, but as said they are blatantly obvious.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

I dont own one, but have seen them, but as said they are blatantly obvious.

Cool, I feel a tad better knowing mine did not look like that, lol.

PSA registry has the actual weight of the cards listed, I mentioned this to him, maybe he will put it on a postal scale and get his obvious answer, the card is real.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

Cool, that is good info to know, thank you, is first I heard of fakes on this card, the gold stamping makes sense with photocopy look.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/182659769849?_...75&_mwBanner=1

Notice the description. No foil

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

Cool, I feel a tad better knowing mine did not look like that, lol.

PSA registry has the actual weight of the cards listed, I mentioned this to him, maybe he will put it on a postal scale and get his obvious answer, the card is real.

This one is quite interesting for sure.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

http://m.ebay.com/itm/182659769849?_...75&_mwBanner=1

Notice the description. No foil

-----Thanks, the description says reprint no foil, but the scan has it????

My only issue is this, I do not mind taking my card back, will I get my exact card back is what I am thinking here. Nothing is adding up with this story from him, not saying it is not what he is actually thinking, just does not fit for me and my fear is getting a reprint back or a another bowman brady rc that was not the one I sent, hence some condition issues.
I get my card back, cool, immediate refund, I send it myself and get the psa 9 for sure and enjoy the extra $150 + when I sell it.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

This one is quite interesting for sure.

I am little confused and off taken by it all.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

-----Thanks, the description says reprint no foil, but the scan has it????

My only issue is this, I do not mind taking my card back, will I get my exact card back is what I am thinking here. Nothing is adding up with this story from him, not saying it is not what he is actually thinking, just does not fit for me and my fear is getting a reprint back or a another bowman brady rc that was not the one I sent, hence some condition issues.
I get my card back, cool, immediate refund, I send it myself and get the psa 9 for sure and enjoy the extra $150 + when I sell it.

Yeah its just a gamble to know if you are going to get the right one back for sure.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

I am little confused and off taken by it all.

Yeah its pretty confusing for sure. The difference isnthe foil name for a real one and a print for the fake. Pic might be a stock photo

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Yeah its just a gamble to know if you are going to get the right one back for sure.

I have to at least consider that,

got new message from buyer just now,,


New message from: ibefine121 (5,757Green Star)
While there are many, many sneaky sleazeballs in this hobby, you can rest assured I am not one of them. You can check my feedback over the past 10 years and it will show nothing but pristine reviews. That being said, the card I have in my possession is the one you sent me. The card was never gem mint as you admitted when I bought it. (You said it would probably grade a 9). So................ I can see your point but put yourself in my shoes.....you told me that the card you sent me was "real." How do you know it is real? Do you work for one of these companies? PSA? JSA? Beckett? Perhaps you purchased it and it was not real. Who knows, unless of course you pulled this card in 2000 and have kept it for the past 17 years? Once again, I am a straight shooter....I do not play games.

I have continually sought after the truth with this card because if I have to go thru ebay I want to be correct. I did not contact ebay because I would like to work it out myself, however, unless you tell me otherwise, you can not be sure that the card is 100 % real? If you are sure that it is real...I will send it to beckett or PSA...if its real ...no harm no foul. If its not then you reimburse me. You said it was not your responsibility but it is your responsibility to sell authentic items.

Thanks,

John

Ok then, I have been saying it is real, so I guess he needs one more email saying it again???? I will send that message now and also say send it to Beckett or PSA. The reimburse part for grading/authenticating ( in his mind) , I should not have to pay for.
Now he wants to throw legal specifics at me about responsibility on my part, I know what the rules are on Ebay, I know I did what I could do by listing it correctly and providing 8 scans of every angle and inch of the card, I communicate thru the entire process, even a week of questions prior to the purchase and a bunch of low offers to start.
For sure a first for me, I had one other request for a return all my time selling on Ebay and here. I accepted that return with no problems, but it was easy as it was a Brady #D rc, so real tough to fake that, lol. Buyer on that one claimed they wanted a better conditioned one, I had no problems with that.

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

I have to at least consider that,

got new message from buyer just now,,


New message from: ibefine121 (5,757Green Star)
While there are many, many sneaky sleazeballs in this hobby, you can rest assured I am not one of them. You can check my feedback over the past 10 years and it will show nothing but pristine reviews. That being said, the card I have in my possession is the one you sent me. The card was never gem mint as you admitted when I bought it. (You said it would probably grade a 9). So................ I can see your point but put yourself in my shoes.....you told me that the card you sent me was "real." How do you know it is real? Do you work for one of these companies? PSA? JSA? Beckett? Perhaps you purchased it and it was not real. Who knows, unless of course you pulled this card in 2000 and have kept it for the past 17 years? Once again, I am a straight shooter....I do not play games.

I have continually sought after the truth with this card because if I have to go thru ebay I want to be correct. I did not contact ebay because I would like to work it out myself, however, unless you tell me otherwise, you can not be sure that the card is 100 % real? If you are sure that it is real...I will send it to beckett or PSA...if its real ...no harm no foul. If its not then you reimburse me. You said it was not your responsibility but it is your responsibility to sell authentic items.

Thanks,

John

Ok then, I have been saying it is real, so I guess he needs one more email saying it again???? I will send that message now and also say send it to Beckett or PSA. The reimburse part for grading/authenticating ( in his mind) , I should not have to pay for.
Now he wants to throw legal specifics at me about responsibility on my part, I know what the rules are on Ebay, I know I did what I could do by listing it correctly and providing 8 scans of every angle and inch of the card, I communicate thru the entire process, even a week of questions prior to the purchase and a bunch of low offers to start.
For sure a first for me, I had one other request for a return all my time selling on Ebay and here. I accepted that return with no problems, but it was easy as it was a Brady #D rc, so real tough to fake that, lol. Buyer on that one claimed they wanted a better conditioned one, I had no problems with that.

Wow. This is gets more interesting by the moment. I dont believe the Brady is one that Ebay has as a must list as reprint. He has to know his time is past with Ebay. Youndid your diligence. The only fakes that i can find have no foil. Not sure what the motive is. The other wild card is that how do you know that he doesn't have a fake that he would send in.

[gingerscards]

Originally Posted by Chris Lyle

Wow. This is gets more interesting by the moment. I dont believe the Brady is one that Ebay has as a must list as reprint. He has to know his time is past with Ebay. Youndid your diligence. The only fakes that i can find have no foil. Not sure what the motive is. The other wild card is that how do you know that he doesn't have a fake that he would send in.

I am with you on this and same thing as sending me back something else if I do a return under this pretense.
Motive? Angle? I do not see his either, well I do not see a good one that is, lol.
I sent him a reply just now and simply said , send it to me or send it to PSA or Beckett, either way I am not paying for the process if you send it in to them. If he choose to send it back tome, which at this point I think he is going to try, I already have Ebay on the phone and asked if they will accept a reroute form my post office directly to them, the package I receive from this buyer. I am waiting on a reply to that, the rep said they need to run that by their bosses.

[afrederick12]

Yikes. That message.

Who's to say he doesn't have a reprint already waiting to send back to you. This sucks. Hope it works out for you

[Chris Lyle]

Originally Posted by gingerscards

I am with you on this and same thing as sending me back something else if I do a return under this pretense.
Motive? Angle? I do not see his either, well I do not see a good one that is, lol.
I sent him a reply just now and simply said , send it to me or send it to PSA or Beckett, either way I am not paying for the process if you send it in to them. If he choose to send it back tome, which at this point I think he is going to try, I already have Ebay on the phone and asked if they will accept a reroute form my post office directly to them, the package I receive from this buyer. I am waiting on a reply to that, the rep said they need to run that by their bosses.

Yeah that will be a hard sell on ebays end. Hope this works out