Blowout Cards Forums
Baseball Prospect

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASEBALL

Notices

BASEBALL Post your Baseball Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-12-2011, 01:09 PM   #1
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default Case prices...how???

How can there be such a difference on case prices. Look at blowout for example....$232 for bowman sterling hobby box right now and $929 or so for a 4 box case.

How can online retailers be selling a 4 box case for anywhere between $700 and $1200? Does Topps sell wholesale at a variety of price points? Just cannot for the life of me understand the variability.

Please bear with me...I am a noob and just fascinated by this. I like Blowout because of their service (top notch). But what really interested me here is how some of these companies (particularly those with such low prices) can stay afloat? Are they stolen goods or something
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:10 PM   #2
topherkris1
Inactive Account
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 472
Default

asdfasdfasdf

Last edited by topherkris1; 11-13-2011 at 12:34 PM.
topherkris1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:12 PM   #3
Chaddie84
Member
 
Chaddie84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Fargo, ND
Posts: 8,002
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topherkris1 View Post
This is standard practice and it's not exactly nice.

1. Offer Best Prices, Occasionally At A Loss.
2. Build Customer Loyalty
3. Rely on high turnover and customer loyalty to eliminate competition using low prices.
4. Slowly raise prices until threatened by another start-up. At which point, you drop prices again to crush them.

It's all about using your previous sales in the bank and line of credit to simply crush the competition.

The consumer benefits until they establish too large of a market share and there's no incentive for start-ups or their competition to continue. They just have to get it to the point where the start-up cash to compete is too large for any reasonable person to take on the risk.

You don't have to make the same amount per case when you're selling 1000 of 'em as you do when you're selling 100, obviously.
That's cool and all, but I doubt Blowout is selling below cost.
__________________
Chaddie84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:24 PM   #4
phil
Member
 
phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,602
Default

topps supposedly has one factory cost, but it's pretty certain that master distributers sometimes get big incentives on stuff that isn't moving.

i'm sure topps also frequently ties the allocation of high-demand products to products that nobody is ordering, allowing distributers to dump the losers and make it up on the winners.

in the case of sterling it's obvious there's not a lot of money out there right now for an ultra high-end product with and iffy checklist, and there will be more supply than demand and the price will drop on release. that is the reason for the wild price range on presells. some sellers are trying to get what they can now.
phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:37 PM   #5
bboi30
Member
 
bboi30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Killa Kali
Posts: 5,576
Default

They are not selling below cost. When you have a seller such as Blowout (the walmart of cards retailers, not in quality I mean just in quantity) when you buy that much product you are able to get much bigger discounts. Remember also that on the back one of business there are ridoff capabilities so No one competitor has an edge as far as that goes. All in all the difference is that a local LCS just can't sustain the kind of inventory an online store can thus the online store can order more and get a bigger discount.
__________________
THE OFFICIAL BLOWOUT RESIDENT SUPER COLLECTOR OF FRANK THOMAS BASE & UP.

MY PC NFS/NFT: http://www.zistle.com/bboi30/collections/baseball
bboi30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 02:57 PM   #6
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phil View Post
in the case of sterling it's obvious there's not a lot of money out there right now for an ultra high-end product with and iffy checklist
True dat.....I haven't seen boo about a checklist. I thought typically we'd see some high level info even if it's not complete. I haven't seen anything re: checklist for this product. But the auto Heyward, Stras and Stanton and Chapman being in there also are nice!
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2011, 04:52 PM   #7
topherkris1
Inactive Account
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 472
Default

asdfasdfasdf

Last edited by topherkris1; 11-13-2011 at 12:34 PM.
topherkris1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:27 AM   #8
ddearing
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,267
Default

Sorry to crush all the conspiracy theory's on this one, but hopefully this will explain the situation.

There is one factory price. Blowout is not a brick and mortar store, so they typically do not buy direct. They do buy in huge quantity from a number of sources and get good deals and pass them on to you.

The completed sales of Bowman Sterling on ebay have almost all been by a seller named MamaBear. MamaBear is a "Ponzi Scheme" or "Hit and Run" as dealers like to call it. He sold some cases of a few different products below costs and delivered on them. He has a nice string of positive feedback. For the last month, he has been listing a ton of high end presales that you have to pay for now, but will not receive for another 2-4 weeks. He will never deliver these presell cases. There will come a day when he stops sending out the cases he sold at a loss and just disappears. When he does that, he will have about $75k in sales on cases he never delivered. The ones that were sold more than 30 days prior to a complaint being filed will have no chance at recovery. The ones that are within 30 days will have some paypal protection, but none of them will receive the cases.

This has been a long topic of discussion on some dealer boards. You need to remember, if something sounds too good to be true, it is. There is a long list of dealers who would buy 8 box cases of Sterling for $1600 all day long if they could. Do you think that they don't pay attention to ebay? We have seen this before and I'm sure we will see it again.

If you were one of the early people who got their case, good for you. You are like the early investors in the Bernie Madoff Scheme who actually pulled their money out.
__________________
If you have to explain why it's a 1/1, then it's NOT a 1/1.

Looking for Andre Dawson Serial numbered cards that are his jersey number - either #8 or #10. So looking for cards like 8/8 or 08/99 or 10/250.
ddearing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:43 AM   #9
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddearing View Post
The completed sales of Bowman Sterling on ebay have almost all been by a seller named MamaBear. MamaBear is a "Ponzi Scheme" or "Hit and Run" as dealers like to call it. He sold some cases of a few different products below costs and delivered on them. He has a nice string of positive feedback. For the last month, he has been listing a ton of high end presales that you have to pay for now, but will not receive for another 2-4 weeks. He will never deliver these presell cases. There will come a day when he stops sending out the cases he sold at a loss and just disappears. When he does that, he will have about $75k in sales on cases he never delivered.

Careful....that kind of description sounds borderline libelous. No I am not this "mamabear" but wow...to assume someone will do that in advance is pretty rough. Now if he/she is selling them far below market, something is up. But I won't even speculate on what that something is. I'm not a lawyer either but I'd be careful about leaping to this sort of conclusion.
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:44 AM   #10
kobemagee29
Member
 
kobemagee29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: rockford
Posts: 2,954
Default

If you pay with a credit card thru paypal and don't receive what you payed for, you shouldn't have nothing to worry about regardless of the 30 days..
Maybe mamabear has some connections with some Fed-Ex & UPS drivers
You say nobody's going to receive any of the high-end cases, but apparently a couple buyers received there 8 box cases of bowman sterling FB yesterday..

Last edited by kobemagee29; 01-13-2011 at 09:55 AM.
kobemagee29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:55 AM   #11
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kobemagee29 View Post
If you pay with a credit card thru paypal and don't receive what you payed for, you shouldn't have nothing to worry about regardless of the 30 days..
Maybe mamabear has some connections with some Fed-Ex & UPS drivers

No...then his name would end in a vowel like Mamaberio I can say that since I am Italian
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 09:57 AM   #12
dthimesch
Member
 
dthimesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 23,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddearing View Post
Sorry to crush all the conspiracy theory's on this one, but hopefully this will explain the situation.

There is one factory price. Blowout is not a brick and mortar store, so they typically do not buy direct. They do buy in huge quantity from a number of sources and get good deals and pass them on to you.

The completed sales of Bowman Sterling on ebay have almost all been by a seller named MamaBear. MamaBear is a "Ponzi Scheme" or "Hit and Run" as dealers like to call it. He sold some cases of a few different products below costs and delivered on them. He has a nice string of positive feedback. For the last month, he has been listing a ton of high end presales that you have to pay for now, but will not receive for another 2-4 weeks. He will never deliver these presell cases. There will come a day when he stops sending out the cases he sold at a loss and just disappears. When he does that, he will have about $75k in sales on cases he never delivered. The ones that were sold more than 30 days prior to a complaint being filed will have no chance at recovery. The ones that are within 30 days will have some paypal protection, but none of them will receive the cases.

This has been a long topic of discussion on some dealer boards. You need to remember, if something sounds too good to be true, it is. There is a long list of dealers who would buy 8 box cases of Sterling for $1600 all day long if they could. Do you think that they don't pay attention to ebay? We have seen this before and I'm sure we will see it again.

If you were one of the early people who got their case, good for you. You are like the early investors in the Bernie Madoff Scheme who actually pulled their money out.
Well I was one of them

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishacura View Post
Careful....that kind of description sounds borderline libelous. No I am not this "mamabear" but wow...to assume someone will do that in advance is pretty rough. Now if he/she is selling them far below market, something is up. But I won't even speculate on what that something is. I'm not a lawyer either but I'd be careful about leaping to this sort of conclusion.
everyone is entitled to their opinion. Only time will tell..........
dthimesch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:07 AM   #13
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dthimesch View Post
Well I was one of them



everyone is entitled to their opinion. Only time will tell..........
No doubt....but what you printed was more than opinion and again, borderline libelous. (paraphrase he WILL do this HORRIBLE thing). Just looking out for you man...you never know in this litigious society we live in how easy it is for someone to go after you based on something you say.
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:11 AM   #14
ddearing
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,267
Default

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am not too worried about it. Just trying to protect you as buyers and protect legitimate sellers like Blowout.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kobemagee29 View Post
You say nobody's going to receive any of the high-end cases, but apparently a couple buyers received there 8 box cases of bowman sterling FB yesterday..
No I didn't say that nobody will get their cases. I said that there will come a day in the next few weeks where MamaBear will disappear with tens of thousands of dollars worth of cases unshipped. Don't get me wrong - I hope I am mistaken, but I am pretty sure I am not since we have seen it before.

On a side note, if you think I am wrong, I wouldn't mind placing a $100 wager on it that 2 months from now, this guy is gone withe tons of negative feedbacks against him.
__________________
If you have to explain why it's a 1/1, then it's NOT a 1/1.

Looking for Andre Dawson Serial numbered cards that are his jersey number - either #8 or #10. So looking for cards like 8/8 or 08/99 or 10/250.

Last edited by ddearing; 01-13-2011 at 10:13 AM.
ddearing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:18 AM   #15
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddearing View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am not too worried about it. Just trying to protect you as buyers and protect legitimate sellers like Blowout.

No I didn't say that nobody will get their cases. I said that there will come a day in the next few weeks where MamaBear will disappear with tens of thousands of dollars worth of cases unshipped. Don't get me wrong - I hope I am mistaken, but I am pretty sure I am not since we have seen it before.

On a side note, if you think I am wrong, I wouldn't mind placing a $100 wager on it that 2 months from now, this guy is gone withe tons of negative feedbacks against him.

You said "he will not deliver"....that's your quote. And don't get me wrong, I am not doubting anything you say. No interest in betting on it since that'd be illegal also my friend (you're so dangerous lol)
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:28 AM   #16
phil
Member
 
phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,602
Default

i don't want to sound like i'm encouraging anyone to order from mamma_bear because something shady is going on there that could end at any time, and i absolutely would not buy anything from them if i couldn't pay with visa. but i have to point out that this post is misleading at least when it comes to the current situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddearing View Post
The completed sales of Bowman Sterling on ebay have almost all been by a seller named MamaBear. MamaBear is a "Ponzi Scheme" or "Hit and Run" as dealers like to call it. He sold some cases of a few different products below costs and delivered on them. He has a nice string of positive feedback. For the last month, he has been listing a ton of high end presales
he (actually she) has been doing this for over 2 months now.

Quote:
He will never deliver these presell cases.
she has FB for delivering numerous other high-end products at similar markdown including sterling NFL.

Quote:
When he does that, he will have about $75k in sales on cases he never delivered.
she has already delivered on WAY more than $75k worth of cases.

Quote:
The ones that were sold more than 30 days prior to a complaint being filed will have no chance at recovery.
actually if you pay with visa you have at least 60 and usually 120 days to file a claim.

Quote:
There is a long list of dealers who would buy 8 box cases of Sterling for $1600 all day long if they could.
i don't read dealer boards but i seriously doubt the major resellers would take all they can get at $200/box. it is fairly obvious the market is soft right now and retail for sterling will drop to or below cost on release.

that said what IS fishy is that dealers would certainly take all they can get somewhere IN BETWEEN what mamma is selling for and cost. she has already left tens of thousands on the table on products sold and delivered which nobody understands.

mamma_bear has said she has ties to 2 master distributers, so she may be a front for them to do some discrete dumping that can't be to dealers, but even then she could easily get more on ebay than she is getting. it is a very odd situation.

either way you are correct that there is big danger, but it might be worth the gamble of tying up money for a few weeks for some people, as long as you pay with visa.
phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:30 AM   #17
kobemagee29
Member
 
kobemagee29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: rockford
Posts: 2,954
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddearing View Post
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am not too worried about it. Just trying to protect you as buyers and protect legitimate sellers like Blowout.




No I didn't say that nobody will get their cases. I said that there will come a day in the next few weeks where MamaBear will disappear with tens of thousands of dollars worth of cases unshipped. Don't get me wrong - I hope I am mistaken, but I am pretty sure I am not since we have seen it before.

On a side note, if you think I am wrong, I wouldn't mind placing a $100 wager on it that 2 months from now, this guy is gone withe tons of negative feedbacks against him.
You would sure think that you would be right with the prices on some of the sales, but what I can't figure out is why every case that this seller sells, doesn't get shipped until about a week after the release date...
Also, wouldn't most buyers be smart enough to use a credit card to purchase??
kobemagee29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:40 AM   #18
ddearing
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 2,267
Default

I am limited in what I can say here, but I know the distributors and dealers who have supplied the cases that have been sold so far. They are as concerned about this as I am as they know the prices that they charged to Mama_bear (although the one who knows the real identity will not disclose).

These products are not coming direct from the manufacturers. The cases that have been delivered were purchased from a dealer, who in turn had them drop shipped from a Master Distributor who I know and who charged the dealer the appropriate wholesale prices. The price that the distributor charged in the transactions was much more than the final ebay sales price.

Also, I'm not kidding. I could probably move 50 cases of Sterling at $200/box to reputable dealers. The margin on this stuff is miniscule.

You guys are going to have to trust me on this one.

So far, $100,000 in pre-order sales on products that have a direct factory price of $175,000 (not counting the markup from the distributor or dealers Mama_bear has purchase through to deliver the cases that have already been sent)
__________________
If you have to explain why it's a 1/1, then it's NOT a 1/1.

Looking for Andre Dawson Serial numbered cards that are his jersey number - either #8 or #10. So looking for cards like 8/8 or 08/99 or 10/250.

Last edited by ddearing; 01-13-2011 at 10:47 AM.
ddearing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 10:42 AM   #19
dthimesch
Member
 
dthimesch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Posts: 23,247
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishacura View Post
No doubt....but what you printed was more than opinion and again, borderline libelous. (paraphrase he WILL do this HORRIBLE thing). Just looking out for you man...you never know in this litigious society we live in how easy it is for someone to go after you based on something you say.

I didn't say that, I was just saying that the person who did is entitled to their opinion. but anyways I think you figured that out by now.
dthimesch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 11:12 AM   #20
IndyKMB
Member
 
IndyKMB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central HoosierLand
Posts: 2,619
Default

This is an interesting discussion.

I was one of those that tried to get in on the bidding a few weeks back, but after losing out on a few cases I backed off. yes, I checked all the feedback and such, but I just got an uneasy feeling about the wole scenario and decided against pursuing this product through this buyer. I truly hope things work out well for all customers involved, but I just kept thinking do I want to risk $1100 to save $700 ... the answer for me was/is NO.

Last edited by IndyKMB; 01-13-2011 at 11:26 AM.
IndyKMB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 11:41 AM   #21
zw15
Member
 
zw15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,999
Default

What if mama_bear sell the product like bowman sterling 8 box case for $1700?? Just a little bit lower than Blowout's prices, would there be so many doubts?
__________________
Currently looking for,
2011 Marquee Museum Collection Autos /10 (HOF Only)
1997 Donruss Sig. Notable Nicknames Auto /200
zw15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 11:45 AM   #22
fishacura
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 766
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zw15 View Post
What if mama_bear sell the product like bowman sterling 8 box case for $1700?? Just a little bit lower than Blowout's prices, would there be so many doubts?
There's actually another dealer who's selling 8 box cases for $999...take a look. At any rate, it's an interesting discussion and good PR for blowout where you know you can come for a decent deal and terrific service.
fishacura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 12:01 PM   #23
phil
Member
 
phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishacura View Post
There's actually another dealer who's selling 8 box cases for $999...

no not a dealer - zero prior FB for delivering cases or boxes.

more likely someone copycatting mamma_bear to get short term cashflow with case sales they have no intention of delivering.
phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 12:09 PM   #24
hmmdecloth
Member
 
hmmdecloth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: NJ / Philadelphia
Posts: 1,038
Default

Could be a LCS who buys direct and has to buy a certain qty to keep their relationship to buy direct and their "friend" who the LCS "sells" to so the "friend" can sell cheap on ebay to generate cash to pay the invoice for the qty ordered.

So an example would be the LCS sells a case for 1000 on a cost of 650 for 350 profit and knows he will sell atleast 5 cases through the LCS. This means that his "friend" can take a 1750 hit on ebay to break even and maintain his relationship to continue to buy direct.

Just a theory.
hmmdecloth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2011, 12:13 PM   #25
phil
Member
 
phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddearing View Post
I am limited in what I can say here, but I know the distributors and dealers who have supplied the cases that have been sold so far. They are as concerned about this as I am as they know the prices that they charged to Mama_bear (although the one who knows the real identity will not disclose).

These products are not coming direct from the manufacturers. The cases that have been delivered were purchased from a dealer, who in turn had them drop shipped from a Master Distributor who I know and who charged the dealer the appropriate wholesale prices. The price that the distributor charged in the transactions was much more than the final ebay sales price.

Also, I'm not kidding. I could probably move 50 cases of Sterling at $200/box to reputable dealers. The margin on this stuff is miniscule.

You guys are going to have to trust me on this one.

So far, $100,000 in pre-order sales on products that have a direct factory price of $175,000 (not counting the markup from the distributor or dealers Mama_bear has purchase through to deliver the cases that have already been sent)


i'll take your word for it, but something doesn't seem right with your story either. if mamma has been paying market value all along, including fees and shipping they have already lost most of what they would stand to gain if they disappear when sterling MLB comes due. if this is a premeditated ponzi scheme it is one of the least efficient ones ever.
phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.