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Old 02-25-2012, 08:51 PM   #1
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Default Oval Office Box Question....

From some previous threads, it was mentioned that there were 261 boxes produced ( was supposed to be 276). I saw a box today numbered in the 270's? Are the missing 15 boxes random (ie. # 2,134,176,216, etc)? If anyone has insight, your answers would be greatly appreciated. if this is the case, why were random numbers pulled as opposed to the last 15?
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:22 PM   #2
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My guess is the boxes were made(and stamped) several weeks or months ago but the final amount of cut cards made didn't reach that amount so only 261 filled boxes went out.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coltsnsox07 View Post
My guess is the boxes were made(and stamped) several weeks or months ago but the final amount of cut cards made didn't reach that amount so only 261 filled boxes went out.
So why weren't the first 261 boxes sent out instead? That is...if what the OP is stating is true.

Interesting.
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:58 PM   #4
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Your referring to the LBJ being pulled out of box 262/276 right? Yeah, that I don't know, maybe it was 261 randomly filled boxes, maybe they weren't sitting in perfect numerical order as they were grabbed and filled(who does this part by the way!) Maybe so someone there doesn't know box #104 has Lincoln/Washington etc?
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by coltsnsox07 View Post
Your referring to the LBJ being pulled out of box 262/276 right? Yeah, that I don't know, maybe it was 261 randomly filled boxes, maybe they weren't sitting in perfect numerical order as they were grabbed and filled(who does this part by the way!) Maybe so someone there doesn't know box #104 has Lincoln/Washington etc?
Kind of defeats the purpose of numbering boxes then, don't you think?

I mean, you might as well number them out of 1,000 since it doesn't matter if you do them in order. LOL



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Originally Posted by Leaf
from our facebook page:

‎2012 LEAF OVAL OFFICE has begun to hit the market today!!!!! Boxes are numbered to 276, however... ONLY 261 BOXES WERE PRODUCED!!!!! Final checklist with production of each card will be posted on the website imminently..

BG

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Old 02-25-2012, 10:25 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by coltsnsox07 View Post
Your referring to the LBJ being pulled out of box 262/276 right? Yeah, that I don't know, maybe it was 261 randomly filled boxes, maybe they weren't sitting in perfect numerical order as they were grabbed and filled(who does this part by the way!) Maybe so someone there doesn't know box #104 has Lincoln/Washington etc?
As stated in the OP, I saw a box in the 270's today at the shop. If Brian can let us know how these were packed out (or anyone else who has an answer), it would be appreciated.
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:26 PM   #7
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As stated in the OP, I saw a box in the 270's today at the shop. If Brian can let us know how these were packed out (or anyone else who has an answer), it would be appreciated.
Can you get a picture or scan of that box? I'd love to see it.
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Old 02-25-2012, 10:49 PM   #8
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I think Brian Gray stated that the boxes in circulation would be #'d up to 276, but only 261 were actually released. I guess it just comes down to whether or not you believe him. It would be a hard lie to get away with though, given how limited the production run is, so I'm inclined to believe him.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:04 AM   #9
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I think Brian Gray stated that the boxes in circulation would be #'d up to 276, but only 261 were actually released. I guess it just comes down to whether or not you believe him. It would be a hard lie to get away with though, given how limited the production run is, so I'm inclined to believe him.
How on earth would it be hard to get away with? Do you know how many collectors buy stuff like this to keep sealed for a time in the future? I would guess more than 15.

If, (and this is a BIG if right now), only 261 of these were made, there should NOT be a 262/276 or anything else higher than 261/276. That's just plain old-fashioned common sense.
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Old 02-26-2012, 01:26 AM   #10
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How on earth would it be hard to get away with? Do you know how many collectors buy stuff like this to keep sealed for a time in the future? I would guess more than 15.

If, (and this is a BIG if right now), only 261 of these were made, there should NOT be a 262/276 or anything else higher than 261/276. That's just plain old-fashioned common sense.
I agree it seems odd. I just don't want to blindly accuse anybody of anything, particularly with the history of threats of litigation from card manufacturers that have occurred on this board. Brian Gray said there was only 261 boxes released but the boxes would be numbered to 276. It is not inconceivable to believe that a box stamped 235/276 was damaged prior to release, so a box numbered 262/276 went out. It is pretty clear that Leaf put a lot of care and attention into the presentation/packaging of the product, so the above scenario is not outside the realm of possibilities. It is also possible, I suppose, that Brian Gray publicly lied to everybody, released all 276 boxes and hoped nobody would raise a stink when a box #'d above 261 ended up in someone's hand. It just seems like a pretty stupid way to deceive people if that was indeed the case.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:48 AM   #11
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People in this hobby have such a short memory dont they? Do people all of a sudden assume that because Razor changed to Leaf they are now a credible company? Stop offering up ideas as to why the numbering on these is off. Someone might like your idea better than the one they may have used. There is no excuse to have numbering issues on a such a high end set. If there are 261 boxes, NEVER should there be a number higher. Another Oval Office fail in my opinion. With the track record of the owner I think others will ask questions as well.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:07 PM   #12
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People in this hobby have such a short memory dont they? Do people all of a sudden assume that because Razor changed to Leaf they are now a credible company? Stop offering up ideas as to why the numbering on these is off. Someone might like your idea better than the one they may have used. There is no excuse to have numbering issues on a such a high end set. If there are 261 boxes, NEVER should there be a number higher. Another Oval Office fail in my opinion. With the track record of the owner I think others will ask questions as well.
I suppose the easiest answer is usually the most obvious. The part I'm struggling with, before I throw out accusations, is that there's no clear motive. If 276 boxes were produced, Gray could have simply released a statement saying something like: "Initial sell sheets said Oval Office would be produced based off dealer orders. We planned to cap the production at 275, but due to an overwhelming and unexpected demand for this product, one extra box was produced. The checklist remains unchanged and no card will be numbered higher than 5. We are excited to give another collector an unequaled chance to pull a George Washington autograph or dual cut signature cards featuring historical figures such as Nelson Mandela and Fidel Castro paired with former Presidents. We hope collectors enjoy this product as much as we enjoyed making it." There are maybe only 3 or 4 people in the world who would've gotten worked up over that.

I guess I just don't understand what he (Gray) has to gain from lying about it. Maybe I don't have as jaded of a view of the world. One thing is for sure though - at the end of the day, they're still just cards. Nothing worth losing your sh!t over.
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:22 PM   #13
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I asked the question about the numbering sequence out of curiosity more than anything else. I would have thought taking out the last 15 boxes (262-276) would have been easiest versus random boxes throughout the print run. Not saying one thing or another, but having this issue does plant a small seed ( you can interpret seed as what you want).
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Old 02-26-2012, 12:24 PM   #14
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Why don't you guys just ask Brian Grey, he's on the forums.
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Old 02-26-2012, 02:36 PM   #15
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Why don't you guys just ask Brian Grey, he's on the forums.
Im pretty sure people have, or are atleast expecting a "press release" about this topic. In my opinion, the random numbering of the boxes if indeed 15 were left out leaves the chance for things to either be held out or never make it into the product. Sure would make it easy wouldnt it? We all know what there is to gain from that. This is the problem when you do not have an independent 3rd party packaging these types of products. Now people have spent thousands on a product and have no idea how many boxes were actually made and which boxes were not made etc. Simply leaves WAY too much of an unknown considering track records.
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Old 02-26-2012, 04:08 PM   #16
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Just to be a smartass...maybe the other 15 "random" boxes are sitting next to the Stu Unger cut.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:10 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Monsters View Post
From some previous threads, it was mentioned that there were 261 boxes produced ( was supposed to be 276). I saw a box today numbered in the 270's? Are the missing 15 boxes random (ie. # 2,134,176,216, etc)? If anyone has insight, your answers would be greatly appreciated. if this is the case, why were random numbers pulled as opposed to the last 15?

The non-released boxes are skip numbered... BG

* p.s. - since boxes are hand made, some are prettier than others...
we pulled the less attractive boxes
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by mwheeler27 View Post
How on earth would it be hard to get away with? Do you know how many collectors buy stuff like this to keep sealed for a time in the future? I would guess more than 15.

If, (and this is a BIG if right now), only 261 of these were made, there should NOT be a 262/276 or anything else higher than 261/276. That's just plain old-fashioned common sense.
Every card is numbered... How can you make more than 261 boxes if there are only 261 cards once you add up all the numbers?
BG
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:17 PM   #19
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Just to be a smartass...maybe the other 15 "random" boxes are sitting next to the Stu Unger cut.
I wouldn't say you are a smartass, however I would say you are completely wrong...

The Ungar cut was packed out and will someday be found if every case is opened (if it hasnt been found yet)...

We absolutely DID NOT make 15 of the boxes (various skip serial numbers)..
The cards are numbered and all add up to 261, thus there cannot be more...

Conspiracy theories about this card (and other including the Longoria Superfractor) will always exist,....

Heck, poeple said the same thing about the Strasburg Superfractor in Rookie Retro, but then it was pulled after about 8 months...

Also, the JFK/Oswald/Bloody Car Seat 1/1 was pulled on the 2nd day of release....

The fact is: collectors want to pull the big cards... We pack out all of the big hits and with limited exception, most have been found to date...

If you ever have questions, feel free to call my cell 214-519-1078...
No other manufacturer will give you this access and transparency...

There is a reason... Thanks for the support... BG
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:00 PM   #20
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"Yep, there's your answer fishbulb."
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:04 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAF View Post
I wouldn't say you are a smartass, however I would say you are completely wrong...

The Ungar cut was packed out and will someday be found if every case is opened (if it hasnt been found yet)...

We absolutely DID NOT make 15 of the boxes (various skip serial numbers)..
The cards are numbered and all add up to 261, thus there cannot be more...

Conspiracy theories about this card (and other including the Longoria Superfractor) will always exist,....

Heck, poeple said the same thing about the Strasburg Superfractor in Rookie Retro, but then it was pulled after about 8 months...

Also, the JFK/Oswald/Bloody Car Seat 1/1 was pulled on the 2nd day of release....

The fact is: collectors want to pull the big cards... We pack out all of the big hits and with limited exception, most have been found to date...

If you ever have questions, feel free to call my cell 214-519-1078...
No other manufacturer will give you this access and transparency...

There is a reason... Thanks for the support... BG
Transparency is a cell phone number? How about transparency into your pack out process? Like I said above, someone offered the great theory of boxes looking better than others so who knows. I dont think people would be nearly as cautious or concerned if it werent for Brian Grays actions while operating under the Razor name.
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Old 02-26-2012, 09:16 PM   #22
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I just don't understand people jumping all over this guy.

Keep doing what you're doing Leaf... continuity and quality in products means more than anything, thanks for coming on the boards and answering questions.

Geez, i could only imagine the threads if Topps came on here.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:26 PM   #23
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So if less boxes were made than planned, nobody was excluded, and the price didn't change, isn't that better? The best autos (Washington, Lincoln, ect.) are 1/1's anyways I'm guessing.
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #24
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Do we have any idea of the print runs of the presidents?
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Old 02-26-2012, 10:55 PM   #25
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Tomorrow on Leaf's website, but when you break down the entire checklist you can pretty much figure out every card..all the /5 and the/1, only the /3 middle of the road guys like Harding etc. are the variables.(someone got him here and he's/3)
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