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Old 04-02-2012, 06:24 AM   #1
hugh
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Default Fake patch on this BGS card?

Did they really put logos on /999 cards? It's BGS graded but i don't think that means the patch is certified real...

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:38 AM   #2
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Blurry picture but I'd be a little suspicious of the top right and bottom left corners on the patch window, and no BGS don't authenticate the patches
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:04 AM   #3
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UD did use logos--have pulled a few Ravens (Flacco and Rice) with logos like the one shown.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:06 AM   #4
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I would not trust it. There are thousands of fake patch cards out there.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:23 AM   #5
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Blurry picture but I'd be a little suspicious of the top right and bottom left corners on the patch window, and no BGS don't authenticate the patches
Not true. If the patch was indeed fake BGS or PSA wouldn't grade it and send it back as altered, just like if you recolored or trimmed a card. I have pulled logo cards of /999 SPA and I have also pulled single color /25, UD just randomly put the patches in. Now the reebok logo cards I have seen in SPA are another story.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:31 AM   #6
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Not true. If the patch was indeed fake BGS or PSA wouldn't grade it and send it back as altered, just like if you recolored or trimmed a card. I have pulled logo cards of /999 SPA and I have also pulled single color /25, UD just randomly put the patches in. Now the reebok logo cards I have seen in SPA are another story.
That is wrong, I have seen fake graded patchs cards before. i have also seen trimmed cards graded and alter serial numbers cards graded. You name it. BGS has graded it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:38 AM   #7
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BGS has no idea if the patch is fake or not.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:46 AM   #8
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Not true. If the patch was indeed fake BGS or PSA wouldn't grade it and send it back as altered, just like if you recolored or trimmed a card. I have pulled logo cards of /999 SPA and I have also pulled single color /25, UD just randomly put the patches in. Now the reebok logo cards I have seen in SPA are another story.
Add me to the list of people saying this is blatantly false information. The mere perception that the above might be true is why so many patch fakers send they creations into becket for grading. Becket has, on more than one occasion, stated "We do NOT Authenticate the patches on cards that are submitted to us, just the cards themselves"

They dont care what patches you have in there, they just care that the card itself is not fake, and grade it accordingly.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #9
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Add me to the list of people saying this is blatantly false information. The mere perception that the above might be true is why so many patch fakers send they creations into becket for grading. Becket has, on more than one occasion, stated "We do NOT Authenticate the patches on cards that are submitted to us, just the cards themselves"

They dont care what patches you have in there, they just care that the card itself is not fake, and grade it accordingly.
Really? That's not what this says.

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Old 04-02-2012, 12:53 PM   #10
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BGS has no idea if the patch is fake or not.
So a grading company can't figure it out w/ the card in hand but we can from a scan? If that's the case they need to shut their doors. Their job is to authenticate as well.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:05 PM   #11
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What's the difference between a patch faker and BGS grading?? One is accepted and the other is not!!
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:07 PM   #12
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I've read/heard several times manufacturers say they don't have a database of patches for most releases -- so even if Beckett does send the e-mails there is nothing to check them against
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #13
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I've read/heard several times manufacturers say they don't have a database of patches for most releases -- so even if Beckett does send the e-mails there is nothing to check them against
they should at least be able to say "no we didn't use any logos on /999 cards"
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:15 PM   #14
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they should at least be able to say "no we didn't use any logos on /999 cards"
Well, in this case they can't say that because they did use logos on those cards. I would know because I received one directly from UD (redemption). That does not, however, mean that all of the logo patches are real.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #15
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So a grading company can't figure it out w/ the card in hand but we can from a scan? If that's the case they need to shut their doors. Their job is to authenticate as well.
BGS does not authenticate patches. They will look for an altered card, but some of the patch 'switchers' are so good at it that you can not see any alter points. If this happens then how does BGS know if the patch is the original or not? Even the card companies have not kept databases of the patches. BGS definitely does NOT contact the card company for each card they receive and ask if the patch is the original that was inserted.

Several cards in Exquisite basketball exploit this lack of grading knowledge. Cards that we know have been altered (before and after images exist) are sent to BGS for the 'authentication' slab. When a card is slabbed in the blue 'authentication' slab and not graded that makes me leary. From my experience this is a signal that something isn't right about the card. Either damage that lowers the grade or the patch was switched and the submitter is using BGS in an attempt to add a little credibility to the card when selling to unknowledgable buyers. When a seller points to the grading case as his proof for the authenticity of the patch then I become fairly certain the card has been tampered with.

Again, BGS looks for evidence of tampering. If they see none then they grade. They do NOT seek authentication for the patch. Unless a database of each card exists this is impossible for even the card company.

Last edited by fullmetal; 04-02-2012 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #16
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Obama faked the patch himself
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:32 PM   #17
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Obama faked the patch himself
You realize that flipping cards (which I have no problem with) violates your liberal agenda. Capitalism is bad. At least that is what the economic policy of O'spendo says. Punish those who show fiscal responsibility and reward those who are irresponsible. I save for my retirement without the expectation of government help (even though I pay my portion of SS and medicare). Look at the current treasury rates. They are likely lower than the rate of inflation.

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Old 04-02-2012, 01:39 PM   #18
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BGS does not authenticate patches. They will look for an altered card, but some of the patch 'switchers' are so good at it that you can not see any alter points. If this happens then how does BGS know if the patch is the original or not? Even the card companies have not kept databases of the patches. BGS definitely does NOT contact the card company for each card they receive and ask if the patch is the original that was inserted.

Several cards in Exquisite basketball exploit this lack of grading knowledge. Cards that we know have been altered (before and after images exist) are sent to BGS for the 'authentication' slab. When a card is slabbed in the blue 'authentication' slab and not graded that makes me leary. From my experience this is a signal that something isn't right about the card. Either damage that lowers the grade or the patch was switched and the submitter is using BGS in an attempt to add a little credibility to the card when selling to unknowledgable buyers. When a seller points to the grading case as his proof for the authenticity of the patch then I become fairly certain the card has been tampered with.

Again, BGS looks for evidence of tampering. If they see none then they grade. They do NOT seek authentication for the patch. Unless a database of each card exists this is impossible for even the card company.
I would not expect them to call on every patch they get, nor would I assume they haven't graded altered cards before. My point was that they dont overlook the patch altogether and yes they attempt to verify the authenticity if possible.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:43 PM   #19
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Offering your political opinions on a card collecting site, especially when the thread has nothing to do with it to start with? Kind of desperate wouldn't you say so?
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:47 PM   #20
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Add me to the list of people saying this is blatantly false information. The mere perception that the above might be true is why so many patch fakers send they creations into becket for grading. Becket has, on more than one occasion, stated "We do NOT Authenticate the patches on cards that are submitted to us, just the cards themselves"

They dont care what patches you have in there, they just care that the card itself is not fake, and grade it accordingly.
I disagree with your response. There were a lot of Ravens logo patches for Ray Rice and Joe Flacco in SPA and Exquisite in 2008...a lot. It does not mean people don't attempt to fake them. Especially for 2007 SPA Adrian Peterson cards.

I don't agree w/ Beckett's hard line approach to grading and I don't submit but 1/10th what I used to for grading. However, if the patch looks suspicious, BGS will send it back ungraded.

Nothing is 100%, but in this case, your off base on the Ravens' cards. Look at players like Torey Smith and Tandon Doss this year.....similar patches in Topps and Panini products.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:54 PM   #21
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I would not expect them to call on every patch they get, nor would I assume they haven't graded altered cards before. My point was that they dont overlook the patch altogether and yes they attempt to verify the authenticity if possible.

Without a photo database how can a patch be 'verified?' That is an honest question. Other than an answer like 'I think it is legit,' what more could be expected?

After 03-04 Exquisite basketball hit the streets several cards started floating between collectors with questionable patches. At that time Upper Deck had a Fraud Investigation Team (FIT) that was very helpful. They would give an honest opinion about a card, but said without the card in hand they couldn't say for certain. Even then they might not be able to because no photo database existed.

They continued to offer this service after the release of 04-05 basketball, but their answers improved. They never directed stated that a photo database existed, but their comments led me to believe one existed. Later that year UD dissolved their FIT and no one within customer service cared to address card tampering.

Some have voiced the need for a photo database. I see pros and cons. Part of the fun in collecting is not knowing what is out there. If a certain patch card has a print run of 100, then a collector could browse the database of 100 cards and pick a certain card to wait for. I think that would create a problem in our hobby. A solution I thought of was including a code (similar to redemption codes) in small print on the back of the card. The code would bring up an image of that card as it looked when it left the company.

I would surmise to guess that as technology progresses we might one day see a picture of the patch on the back of the card. The current printing process does not allow for this step, but the process could be modified. I think it will take a new company without established procedures to buck the trend.

We have seen weaker and weaker COAs on the back of cards. Topps once put an image of the actual jersey that the fabric came from on the back of the card. No COAs simply state the jersey was worn. Doesn't say by whom, or where or when.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:04 PM   #22
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Without a photo database how can a patch be 'verified?' That is an honest question. Other than an answer like 'I think it is legit,' what more could be expected?

After 03-04 Exquisite basketball hit the streets several cards started floating between collectors with questionable patches. At that time Upper Deck had a Fraud Investigation Team (FIT) that was very helpful. They would give an honest opinion about a card, but said without the card in hand they couldn't say for certain. Even then they might not be able to because no photo database existed.

They continued to offer this service after the release of 04-05 basketball, but their answers improved. They never directed stated that a photo database existed, but their comments led me to believe one existed. Later that year UD dissolved their FIT and no one within customer service cared to address card tampering.

Some have voiced the need for a photo database. I see pros and cons. Part of the fun in collecting is not knowing what is out there. If a certain patch card has a print run of 100, then a collector could browse the database of 100 cards and pick a certain card to wait for. I think that would create a problem in our hobby. A solution I thought of was including a code (similar to redemption codes) in small print on the back of the card. The code would bring up an image of that card as it looked when it left the company.

I would surmise to guess that as technology progresses we might one day see a picture of the patch on the back of the card. The current printing process does not allow for this step, but the process could be modified. I think it will take a new company without established procedures to buck the trend.

We have seen weaker and weaker COAs on the back of cards. Topps once put an image of the actual jersey that the fabric came from on the back of the card. No COAs simply state the jersey was worn. Doesn't say by whom, or where or when.
Ok. Thanks for the input.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #23
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Ok. Thanks for the input.
Ok. You are welcome.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:29 PM   #24
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I disagree with your response. There were a lot of Ravens logo patches for Ray Rice and Joe Flacco in SPA and Exquisite in 2008...a lot. It does not mean people don't attempt to fake them. Especially for 2007 SPA Adrian Peterson cards.

I don't agree w/ Beckett's hard line approach to grading and I don't submit but 1/10th what I used to for grading. However, if the patch looks suspicious, BGS will send it back ungraded.

Nothing is 100%, but in this case, your off base on the Ravens' cards. Look at players like Torey Smith and Tandon Doss this year.....similar patches in Topps and Panini products.
You can't compare 2008 ravens cards to 2011 or 2012. The logo patches are used much more now than they were in 2008.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:31 PM   #25
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I would not trust it. There are thousands of fake patch cards out there.
you are nuts !!!
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