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Old 08-06-2013, 11:18 AM   #1
HadWayTooMuch
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Default What Would You Do? Some Help Please

Say you buy a lot of "wholesale" lots from a guy. Maybe you spend $3k-$6K a year.

Say you buy a deal and the deal has a key card in it. Call it a $100 card. You do some research and find out the card is trimmed.

You contact the guy tell him it's trimmed (and another less expensive card) and he says he bought it that way (and let's say you believe him as his honestly is not an issue.)

He says he can't do anything about it, he's sorry, but he didn't make much on the deal.

So now you have a nearly $1000 deal with the key card all but worthless.

How do you deal with this person in the future when he doesn't offer ANY form of compensation?

thanks
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:21 AM   #2
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Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. You either trust him or you don't. If you do trust him then continue dealing with him and if it happens again then I would call him a liar and move on.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:22 AM   #3
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I would move on if it were me.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:30 AM   #4
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I would move on if it were me.
When you say move on, do you mean forget it and continue to deal with him or move on from him and no longer deal?

Thanks for your input.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:31 AM   #5
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If you have a $1K deal and 1 $100 card is "worthless" then I demand a refund for the whole lot if this is an in person transaction.

If paypal I will file a claim and get the who amount back.

Then I warn people about the person and I never deal with him again
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:32 AM   #6
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If you have a $1K deal and 1 $100 card is "worthless" then I demand a refund for the whole lot if this is an in person transaction.

If paypal I will file a claim and get the who amount back.

Then I warn people about the person and I never deal with him again
In person transaction. I am more disappointed he hasn't offered any form of compensation (including a monster deal next time as I do believe he wasn't the wiser on the card) then I am the actual dollars.

For the business we do, I would have thought he would have wanted to compensate me somehow.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:39 AM   #7
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I would return the lot or get 100$ refund. He is responsible for the authenticity of what he sells. If he wants his money back then he needs to return it from he bought it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:53 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
In person transaction. I am more disappointed he hasn't offered any form of compensation (including a monster deal next time as I do believe he wasn't the wiser on the card) then I am the actual dollars.

For the business we do, I would have thought he would have wanted to compensate me somehow.
I was on your side to begin with, but after this post, I've got to say you chalk it up to bad luck and move on business as usual.

If you honestly believe the guy bought it that way and he didn't trim it himself or have any inkling that it was trimmed, then you can't hold him accountable for an in person transaction.

If it was online, maybe you'd have an argument, but in person, you should be inspecting not only all the cards (or at least a majority) but you should be going over the centerpiece of the deal with a fine tooth comb if you're buying to then flip.

This one is on you man, sorry to say
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:58 AM   #9
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I was on your side to begin with, but after this post, I've got to say you chalk it up to bad luck and move on business as usual.

If you honestly believe the guy bought it that way and he didn't trim it himself or have any inkling that it was trimmed, then you can't hold him accountable for an in person transaction.

If it was online, maybe you'd have an argument, but in person, you should be inspecting not only all the cards (or at least a majority) but you should be going over the centerpiece of the deal with a fine tooth comb if you're buying to then flip.

This one is on you man, sorry to say
Thanks for the feedback. I was indeed there and I did see the card. I have never been involved with a trimmed card as a buyer or seller so to be brutally honest, I didn't know better. I believe he didn't know better too.

I guess the key question really is, is there an obligation be it business or moral when you sell something and it has been altered, should you make good to a stranger or a good customer?

I'm very torn. When I spend nearly $1000 on cards, I have faith in the person I'm buying from. Now that may be a mistake, and that mistake would be on me if it was one.

But I also believe the person I'm buying from should stand behind their product.

I'm not demanding anything from him. I made him aware of it, he said he can't do anything about it, and it's over from that standpoint.

Now I'm just curious what others would do in my situation.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:05 PM   #10
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Thanks for the feedback. I was indeed there and I did see the card. I have never been involved with a trimmed card as a buyer or seller so to be brutally honest, I didn't know better. I believe he didn't know better too.

I guess the key question really is, is there an obligation be it business or moral when you sell something and it has been altered, should you make good to a stranger or a good customer?

I'm very torn. When I spend nearly $1000 on cards, I have faith in the person I'm buying from. Now that may be a mistake, and that mistake would be on me if it was one.

But I also believe the person I'm buying from should stand behind their product.

I'm not demanding anything from him. I made him aware of it, he said he can't do anything about it, and it's over from that standpoint.

Now I'm just curious what others would do in my situation.
To me, it's not a matter of a seller standing by their product, as this isn't the seller's product really.

If this was a product that the seller created, sold, and was then found out to be defective in some way, then yes, they should make good on it.

But this is a transfer of commodities essentially, and something that you as the buyer had the chance to examine yourself.

If you buy a piece of art from someone, have the chance to inspect it in person before buying and both parties at the time of the sale both believe the piece of art is 100% authentic and in perfect condition. And then you later discover flaws in the piece that severely hurt it's value if not deem it worthless, then that's on you, not the seller, because you had the chance to inspect it, you both believed it was good, and you paid for said item.

This hobby is all about condition, which is why dealing online can be tricky, and if this was online I'd say you have a right to some form of compensation.

But given that it was in person and it was the centerpiece of the deal, thus meaning it should have been inspected the most, then I'm sorry to say it's gotta be on you to eat the loss on this one.

You live and learn and will now inspect cards a little more carefully moving forward
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:05 PM   #11
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Thanks for the feedback. I was indeed there and I did see the card. I have never been involved with a trimmed card as a buyer or seller so to be brutally honest, I didn't know better. I believe he didn't know better too.
How did you figure out later that it was trimmed if you didn't see it until after you bought it?
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:14 PM   #12
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How did you figure out later that it was trimmed if you didn't see it until after you bought it?
It was actually pointed out to me here on BO that it was trimmed. I wouldn't have looked for that. To me, it looked like a nice card. Having never dealt with trimmed cards (and he probably hasn't either), I just didn't think to look. Which of course is my bad.

The key question is, does the seller have any responsibility to stand behind the transaction? I am not saying he does or does not. That is the question I am asking.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:15 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by zonacats8 View Post
To me, it's not a matter of a seller standing by their product, as this isn't the seller's product really.

If this was a product that the seller created, sold, and was then found out to be defective in some way, then yes, they should make good on it.

But this is a transfer of commodities essentially, and something that you as the buyer had the chance to examine yourself.

If you buy a piece of art from someone, have the chance to inspect it in person before buying and both parties at the time of the sale both believe the piece of art is 100% authentic and in perfect condition. And then you later discover flaws in the piece that severely hurt it's value if not deem it worthless, then that's on you, not the seller, because you had the chance to inspect it, you both believed it was good, and you paid for said item.

This hobby is all about condition, which is why dealing online can be tricky, and if this was online I'd say you have a right to some form of compensation.

But given that it was in person and it was the centerpiece of the deal, thus meaning it should have been inspected the most, then I'm sorry to say it's gotta be on you to eat the loss on this one.

You live and learn and will now inspect cards a little more carefully moving forward
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. So if it was you, you would continue dealing with the person and just make sure to inspect the cards a little more carefully?
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:22 PM   #14
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Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. So if it was you, you would continue dealing with the person and just make sure to inspect the cards a little more carefully?
Exactly

You guys have had what sounds like numerous transactions that have been perfectly fine, and it sounds like you both thought this one was fine too, I'd just move on business as usual.

Now let's say you're negotiating your next sale and he's at $1,100 and you're at $1,000 and you'd normally cut it in half and call it $1,050.

Maybe at that point you say that he should give you a little bit of a win and do it at $1,025 or something, just inspect the cards a little more next time

I got screwed on one myself once, which is why I make sure to read all of the description on ebay items now. I bought a card that I thought I got a great deal on and would be able to more than double it on a flip, got it in the mail and it was pretty badly dinged up and I was pissed. Went and looked at the listing again and it was all detailed out in there, 100% on me.

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Old 08-06-2013, 12:24 PM   #15
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Exactly

You guys have had what sounds like numerous transactions that have been perfectly fine, and it sounds like you both thought this one was fine too, I'd just move on business as usual.

Now let's say you're negotiating your next sale and he's at $1,100 and you're at $1,000 and you'd normally cut it in half and call it $1,050.

Maybe at that point you say that he should give you a little bit of a win and do it at $1,025 or something
Cool, thanks for the feedback. Again, in no way do I think he did anything intentionally which is key here also. I've spent quite a few dollars over the past few years and he's given me good deals. But I also buy junk that nobody else would want. You wouldn't believe some of the crap I have picked up over the years...
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:26 PM   #16
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It was actually pointed out to me here on BO that it was trimmed. I wouldn't have looked for that. To me, it looked like a nice card. Having never dealt with trimmed cards (and he probably hasn't either), I just didn't think to look. Which of course is my bad.

The key question is, does the seller have any responsibility to stand behind the transaction? I am not saying he does or does not. That is the question I am asking.
Who said it was trimmed here? You could have been fed a lot of bs with that, and the person who said it could be wrong. If you didn't notice it and the seller you deal with for a long time didn't notice it either then why would you take the advise of complete strangers on the Internet?
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:30 PM   #17
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Who said it was trimmed here? You could have been fed a lot of bs with that, and the person who said it could be wrong. If you didn't notice it and the seller you deal with for a long time didn't notice it either then why would you take the advise of complete strangers on the Internet?
Once pointed out to me, I put it up against a card from the same year. It was definitely smaller than that card and trimmed. 100% sure.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:35 PM   #18
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Well there's a little thing called trust that seemed to be lacking here. I have a guy as well that I sell my lots to and he's known to buy lots from a lot of people and as far as I know he hasn't had problems with anyone b/c he's an honest guy.

Your seller should have told you about the card in question and then you could make a decision on if you wanted it or not. You also should have done more research about the cards in the lot. How big was the lot? This is why I don't deal with lots b/c sure you can sometimes find gold in them and they usually are cheap, but you never know if you will get all the cards in question or whatever other issue.

As far as your situation is concerned I would just leave it as it is. It kind of sucks since you were such a good customer to him and he didn't try to help you out or just charge you less for the lot. It's what any good sales person would have done actually since now he might have lost you as a customer.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #19
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Once pointed out to me, I put it up against a card from the same year. It was definitely smaller than that card and trimmed. 100% sure.
That sucks you got scammed and he is not doing nothing about it. Would he let you take out all the cards and inspect them before purchase? If he did not say it was trimmed then he sold you something he did not described. Maybe next time give him a fake check and when he calls you saying it will not go thru, just tell him that there is nothing you can do and he should of call the bank to make sure it was real before the deal was done.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:38 PM   #20
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I don't think he was "scammed" either. It's just part of the hobby as a business and certain people only care about coming out ahead and making money. Morals have been thrown out the window. He got all the cards he was supposed to and it's both their faults for not dealing with the card in question properly.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:44 PM   #21
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Well there's a little thing called trust that seemed to be lacking here. I have a guy as well that I sell my lots to and he's known to buy lots from a lot of people and as far as I know he hasn't had problems with anyone b/c he's an honest guy.

Your seller should have told you about the card in question and then you could make a decision on if you wanted it or not. You also should have done more research about the cards in the lot. How big was the lot? This is why I don't deal with lots b/c sure you can sometimes find gold in them and they usually are cheap, but you never know if you will get all the cards in question or whatever other issue.

As far as your situation is concerned I would just leave it as it is. It kind of sucks since you were such a good customer to him and he didn't try to help you out or just charge you less for the lot. It's what any good sales person would have done actually since now he might have lost you as a customer.
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That sucks you got scammed and he is not doing nothing about it. Would he let you take out all the cards and inspect them before purchase? If he did not say it was trimmed then he sold you something he did not described. Maybe next time give him a fake check and when he calls you saying it will not go thru, just tell him that there is nothing you can do and he should of call the bank to make sure it was real before the deal was done.
The OP has said multiple times that he thinks the guy he bought these from had no idea that the card was trimmed, yet you guys seem to think the seller was doing something shady and not disclosing everything.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:46 PM   #22
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How can you not know a card was trimmed? What does trimmed even mean? The card was cut with scissors? O_o
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:48 PM   #23
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I don't think he was "scammed" either. It's just part of the hobby as a business and certain people only care about coming out ahead and making money. Morals have been thrown out the window. He got all the cards he was supposed to and it's both their faults for not dealing with the card in question properly.
card trimming is a scam. He got scammed by whoever is the card trimmer. Scammers love the blame the victim attitude.

To the OP

Go ahead and keep dealing with this guy who basically said go pound sand and eat it. If he is not the trimmer then and does not care, what makes you think he will not continue to sell you alter cards. Also what makes you think he has not before? If he is not the scammer then whoever is scammer him knows he is an easy target and will continue to feed him trash. Why would a scammer stop?
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by zonacats8 View Post
The OP has said multiple times that he thinks the guy he bought these from had no idea that the card was trimmed, yet you guys seem to think the seller was doing something shady and not disclosing everything.
Does not matter, the seller is responsible for what he sells. If he is not held responsible he will continue to buy and sell garbage.
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:51 PM   #25
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card trimming is a scam. He got scammed by whoever is the card trimmer. Scammers love the blame the victim attitude.

To the OP

Go ahead and keep dealing with this guy who basically said go pound sand and eat it. If he is not the trimmer then and does not care, what makes you think he will not continue to sell you alter cards. Also what makes you think he has not before? If he is not the scammer then whoever is scammer him knows he is an easy target and will continue to feed him trash. Why would a scammer stop?
Or maybe the guy just bought a random card off ebay and it ended up being trimmed.

For all you know this card has changed hands 5+ times without anyone but the original owner knowing it was trimmed.

If someone hands me a very slightly trimmed card, to be honest, I'd never know unless I matched it up with another card. You're making a lot of assumptions that the guy he bought this from is either the trimmer, knows it was trimmed, or is buying lots of cards from one person who may be the trimmer.
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