Did Jordan flop, or Over Acting like LeBron does?

[Breakaway Dealz]

Ok, I'm guessing a lot have seen many of LeBron's flops, Or over acting.
I only got into basketball 2 years ago. So I missed watching Jordan playing.
Though I had this question asked to me recently..

Do you know if Jordan was an actor, flopper, etc like Lebron does? Doing whatever it took to win games?

If you can can you please state any key games when you specifically saw him do this?

Please post your comments
thanks!

[chitownbears22]

Jordan hooked and pushed off, don't remember a lot of acting.

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[Brobocop]

Football was looking to take over the crazy threads for a quick second but after the Finals, basketball say no, no, no, the ridiculous thread crown belongs to us.

[AbraCalabro]

Jordan could slap a referee in the face, kick another referee in the balls and "do it" with the commissioner's wife on the sidelines and he still wouldn't get T'ed up, but the only flopper I remember from the 90s was Rodman.

[Scottish Punk]

Jordan hooked and pushed off, don't remember a lot of acting.

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This is what I remember as well. He pushed off and traveled (a ton) but I don't remember any "flopping" or exaggerating any contact. He really didn't need to, he got almost all the calls go his way anyway. The league and Phil Jackson made sure he was taken care of.

[Scottish Punk]

Jordan could slap a referee in the face, kick the another referee in the balls and "do it" with the commissioner's wife on the sidelines and he still wouldn't get T'ed up, but the only flopper I remember from the 90s was Rodman.

My beloved Laimbeer would be on that list as well as Divac. I am sure there are more. Reggie Miller leg kick count?

[Bulls90s]

No, Jordan didnt flop..it wasnt his playing style. LeBron flopped b/c he was desperate.

[chitownbears22]

No, Jordan didnt flop..it wasnt his playing style. LeBron flopped b/c he was desperate.
Jordan was desperate so he hooked and pushed off. Different generation of hoodwinking...

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[Cervantes]

LOL

Tons of great stuff here.

/sarcasm heavy

[Orangejello727]

The NBA should have the "Best Actor" award. Maybe give away an oscar type trophy with a basketball instead of hte globe being held or something. Lebron would win it every year. Something for him to count.

[pingbling23]

Not much flopping in that era but Jordan played to the refs as much as lebron to get calls.

[Bulls90s]

Jordan was desperate so he hooked and pushed off. Different generation of hoodwinking...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930AZ using Tapatalk

You're confused..Jordan was so good b/c of his work ethic. We all know Air Jordan shut down Reggie Miller game seven in eastern conference finals in '97 b/c of his work ethic..he didnt have to flop like James does..get outta here with this nonsense!

[chitownbears22]

You're confused..Jordan was so good b/c of his work ethic. We all know Air Jordan shut down Reggie Miller game seven in eastern conference finals in '97 b/c of his work ethic..he didnt have to flop like James does..get outta here with this nonsense!
Lived in Chicago and watched every Bulls game in that era. Jordan was the ultimate star-call king. He worked hard, no doubt. He was the best all time, no doubt. But to think he didn't play outside of the rules and got away with it, is just ridiculous.

If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying.

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[Patriot12]

You're confused..Jordan was so good b/c of his work ethic. We all know Air Jordan shut down Reggie Miller game seven in eastern conference finals in '97 b/c of his work ethic..he didnt have to flop like James does..get outta here with this nonsense!

:):):):):):)

[duron]

Football was looking to take over the crazy threads for a quick second but after the Finals, basketball say no, no, no, the ridiculous thread crown belongs to us.

It's insane man.

This forum is starting to resemble what would happen to a radio station if unfiltered call-ins ran all day long. The ratio of league to hobby talk is at least 60-40 nowadays.

#leaguetalksubforumsmatter

[AbraCalabro]

It's insane man.

This forum is starting to resemble what would happen to a radio station if unfiltered call-ins ran all day long. The ratio of league to hobby talk is at least 60-40 nowadays.

#leaguetalksubforumsmatter

b...b...but I don't wanna' clicky another linky...it's...it's...it's too much work. :(

b..b....b....but I like my league talk on the HOBBY forum :(

[GC1980]

Jordan hooked and pushed off, don't remember a lot of acting.

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because LBJ has never pushed off...The basketball forums are just on fire today!

:doh:

[chitownbears22]

because LBJ has never pushed off...The basketball forums are just on fire today!

:doh:
Did I ever claim LeBron was innocent?

I see you reading comprehension is top notch...

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[GC1980]

Did I ever claim LeBron was innocent?

I see you reading comprehension is top notch...

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The Burn!!! My reading comprehension might be off but my math seems on point. Adding this last post with the awesome "Wilt, Kareem and Russell aren't all time greats" and the lebron hates America posts one can only conclude that the basketball forums are on fire!

[no10pin]

Jordan could slap a referee in the face, kick another referee in the balls and "do it" with the commissioner's wife on the sidelines and he still wouldn't get T'ed up, but the only flopper I remember from the 90s was Rodman.

Divac was the king of flopping in the 90s-00s!

DgPHIT61FfU

[ninjacookies]

OP: you have to remember, the landscape of the game was completely different during Jordan's era. You could handcheck and faceguard all day, and damn near rest your elbow in the offensive man's lower back.

Jordan definitely had a lot of hooking in his repertoire (waitwut), and received star preferential treatment just like any other top generational talent (Curry, Lebron, KD). He definitely wasn't a flopper, though. Using your off hand to hook or push off was quite prevalent back then, Shaq used it a TON on his baseline spin moves. Virtually unstoppable.

[Arianny_Fan]

Go watch some YouTube highlights of MJ playing the Pistons, NY Nicks, Pacers. No flopping what so ever. Sure He pushed off. But he was MJ....G.O.A.T!

Jordan was no "Actor" he was simply a "Magician"

[cnewby]

Go watch some YouTube highlights of MJ playing the Pistons, NY Nicks, Pacers. No flopping what so ever. Sure He pushed off. But he was MJ....G.O.A.T!

Jordan was no "Actor" he was simply a "Magician"


No quotes needed.......adds quotes anyways.

[AbraCalabro]

Divac was the king of flopping in the 90s-00s!

DgPHIT61FfU

LOL

wow

The man was ahead of his time, I didn't catch too many Lakers games back then, so I remember Rodman the most, but good lord. Flape Divac and Dennis Flopman.

[Homeless Infant]

Jordan got every star call/ non call imaginable. If anyone even farted in Jordans direction they got called for a foul and his most famous shot ever was an obvious and blatant push off.

[Homeless Infant]

You don't have to flop when you can travel, hook and shove your man out of the way so that you can get your shot off.

[AbraCalabro]

Jordan got every star call/ non call imaginable. If anyone even farted in Jordans direction they got called for a foul and his most famous shot ever was an obvious and blatant push off.

You don't have to flop when you can travel, hook and shove your man out of the way so that you can get your shot off.

The man speaks the truth, can't argue against this.

[jr24ai3]

You don't have to flop when you can travel, hook and shove your man out of the way so that you can get your shot off.

How is that any different from today? Everyone travels today. LeBron is allowed to lower his shoulder like he's a running back when he drives to the basket.

[pingbling23]

How is that any different from today? Everyone travels today. LeBron is allowed to lower his shoulder like he's a running back when he drives to the basket.

And on the same hand he's smacked multiple times on the way to the hoop and hit on the attempt and more times then not its a no call.

[Hegotgame15]

Not much flopping in that era but Jordan played to the refs as much as lebron to get calls.

Can you show me these "playing to the refs as much as LeBron did" instances?

I was trying to think of plays where MJ was trying to sell a call and couldn't think of more then 5 or so...

Not much flopping in that era?

Have you not seen the likes of Miller,Malone,Rodman,Ainge,Laimbeer...They didn't flop as much as LeBron does you're right about that...But they sure did flop a lot.

[rhigh2390]

How does Jordan get so much more calls. Look at the facts.

Jordan's free throw attempts in 1072 games = 8772 (8.2 per game)
Lebron's free throw attempts in 987 games = 8221 (8.3 per game)

Jordan's personal fouls in 1072 games = 2783 (2.6 per game)
Lebron's personal fouls in 987 games = 1843 (1.9 per game)

Sorry MJ haters, but the stats don't back up your theory. Jordan was also double and triple teamed a lot and could not just lower his shoulder to get through guys. He used finesse/skill to get around guys and get to the basket. And if you are meeting 3 guys at the bucket, chances are you are getting hit. I agree he got some superstar calls, but it's no where near how the MJ haters are painting it out to be. Lebron gets away with a lot more.

[pac213up]

More contact was allowed during the majority of Jordan's era so flopping as a whole happened a lot less.

Now with no back to the basket game, almost any contact is illegal so flopping has become part of the game.

[corndog]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/p-j-harriston-flopped-almost-hit-gregg-popovich.gif?w=1000

[Vipertron]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/p-j-harriston-flopped-almost-hit-gregg-popovich.gif?w=1000


http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u407/23hansolo23/GIFs/Jordan2_zpsk9vxtgnh.gif (http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/23hansolo23/media/GIFs/Jordan2_zpsk9vxtgnh.gif.html)

Hilarious. LOLOLOLOLOL
The ref looked at him and simply shooked his head. LOLOLOLOL.

[pingbling23]

Can you show me these "playing to the refs as much as LeBron did" instances?

I was trying to think of plays where MJ was trying to sell a call and couldn't think of more then 5 or so...

Not much flopping in that era?

Have you not seen the likes of Miller,Malone,Rodman,Ainge,Laimbeer...They didn't flop as much as LeBron does you're right about that...But they sure did flop a lot.
Jordan was always talking to the refs, either trying to get a call or setting up future calls.

[Homeless Infant]

And on the same hand he's smacked multiple times on the way to the hoop and hit on the attempt and more times then not its a no call.

It has to be hard reffing Lebron, he gets hit every time he goes to the basket. They could probably call a foul every time.

Shaq said him and Lebron have to be the two hardest guys in history to ref.

[Homeless Infant]

How does Jordan get so much more calls. Look at the facts.

Jordan's free throw attempts in 1072 games = 8772 (8.2 per game)
Lebron's free throw attempts in 987 games = 8221 (8.3 per game)

Jordan's personal fouls in 1072 games = 2783 (2.6 per game)
Lebron's personal fouls in 987 games = 1843 (1.9 per game)

Sorry MJ haters, but the stats don't back up your theory. Jordan was also double and triple teamed a lot and could not just lower his shoulder to get through guys. He used finesse/skill to get around guys and get to the basket. And if you are meeting 3 guys at the bucket, chances are you are getting hit. I agree he got some superstar calls, but it's no where near how the MJ haters are painting it out to be. Lebron gets away with a lot more.

LOL, Jordan had an easier time getting to the lane after he got past his first man. The no zone, illegal d rule made it hard for other players to cheat off and play into the lane.


Would Michael Jordan have starred in today's NBA? - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5542838/nba-rules-changes-lebron-james-michael-jordan)

[rhigh2390]

LOL, Jordan had an easier time getting to the lane after he got past his first man. The no zone, illegal d rule made it hard for other players to cheat off and play into the lane.


Would Michael Jordan have starred in today's NBA? - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/25/5542838/nba-rules-changes-lebron-james-michael-jordan)

I can tell you didn't watch back in the 90s. Teams actually had centers that stayed down by the basket because they couldn't shoot. The lane was more congested than today's game...

[Homeless Infant]

I can tell you didn't watch back in the 90s. Teams actually had centers that stayed down by the basket because they couldn't shoot. The lane was more congested than today's game...

I can tell you didn't even read the link, it had videos of how easy it was to pull the big man away from the basket because of the rules.

[Homeless Infant]

http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/4183253/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_8.36.39_PM.png?_ga=1.88640408.242992670.1463791206

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/4183261/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_8.37.41_PM.png?_ga=1.88640408.242992670.1463791206

compare this Jordan post up

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/4183421/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_9.38.27_PM.png?_ga=1.77238166.242992670.1463791206

versus Lebron

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/4183469/Screen_Shot_2014-03-24_at_9.52.44_PM.png?_ga=1.84978586.242992670.1463791206

[rhigh2390]

I'm not going to get into it with you because we can sit here all day going back and forth with pictures of one play. Luc Longley was never just standing out beyond the 3-point line... Agree to disagree.

[Homeless Infant]

I'm not going to get into it with you because we can sit here all day going back and forth with pictures of one play. Luc Longley was never just standing out beyond the 3-point line... Agree to disagree.

edit

agree to disagree

[Homeless Infant]

For years, the NBA outlawed zones, forcing players to either guard their man or double the man with the ball. Any player caught guarding an area and not a man would elicit a technical foul shot.

Though it was invented in America and used in high school and college basketball, the NBA long looked down their nose at zone defense, seeing it as a tacit admission of inferior talent.

“I personally grew up thinking zone defense wasn’t allowed in the gym,” says New York Knicks coach Derek Fisher.

But in the 1990s, coaches developed strategies to abuse the man-to-man. Teams would isolate their best scorer in the post with his teammates as far away on the other side of the court as possible, to make it hard to double. “People used to put guys in the parking lot,” Fisher jokes.

This was the heyday of back-to-the basket players like Mark Aguirre and Charles Barkley, who’d back their man down for seconds at a time, slowing game action to a crawl.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/nov/25/nba-learned-love-zone-defense

Loosening the rules has allowed the best defensive minds to develop tough double-team schemes where players rotate their assignments. Led by coaches like Tim Thibodeau, formerly of the Bulls, teams have developed hybrid man-zones that flood the ball-side and leave two weak-side defenders covering three guys. It bets the defenders can rotate faster than the offense can move the ball.

“It’s made your weak-side defense better, and it’s made it harder for people to get to the rim,” says Detroit Pistons coach Stan Van Gundy. “You don’t see quite as many [isolation plays] because of that.”

[rhigh2390]

edit

agree to disagree

That still doesn't change the fact that Luc Longley and Bill Wennington did not go stand at the 3 point line. They remained within 8-12 feet from the basket which would allow big men to stay near the basket to help when Jordan drove. If Jordan was backing down, he usually shot a jumper. If he drove, he usually faced you straight up.

[Homeless Infant]

That still doesn't change the fact that Luc Longley and Bill Wennington did not go stand at the 3 point line. They remained within 8-12 feet from the basket which would allow big men to stay near the basket to help when Jordan drove. If Jordan was backing down, he usually shot a jumper. If he drove, he usually faced you straight up.

Man, I have shown you video, pics, written and spoken words from players and coaches.

Once Jordan got past the handcheck he had an easier time getting to the rim. He could also start his post up from way out with out all the help like you have nowadays.

I have given you articles, pics, video, and player and coach testament, you have given us...... your thoughts?

This goes not just for Jordan but all the players back then. There was so much ISO ball on one side of the court.

If the bigs stayed 12 feet away from the basket on the opposite side Jordan post up on, then they could not help or cheat into the lane like todays players can.

[rhigh2390]

Man, I have shown you video, pics, written and spoken words from players and coaches.

Once Jordan got past the handcheck he had an easier time getting to the rim. He could also start his post up from way out with out all the help like you have nowadays.

I have given you articles, pics, video, and player and coach testament, you have given us...... your thoughts?

This goes not just for Jordan but all the players back then. There was so much ISO ball on one side of the court.

If the bigs stayed 12 feet away from the basket on the opposite side Jordan post up on, then they could not help or cheat into the lane like todays players can.

For as much as you have shown, I can show you the exact opposite! In your mind, Jordan never once got double and triple teamed because "it wasn't allowed" yet you can go find on countless videos how many times Jordan was double, triple, sometimes quadruple teamed. And there was always somebody waiting for him at the rim. You showed me 2 gif's of Jordan with a clear paint area. That doesn't prove anything. In fact, in both of those gif's of Jordan there is at least 1 guy getting ready to collapse down on Jordan if he tries to go to the hole. Get off your high horse and realize there is a possibility you might not be 100% correct. I bet you are a ball to get along with in your personal life. Do you act like this everytime someone disagrees with you?

[thecomebacker]

That's not even the topic of this thread. The answer to this thread is:
NO, Jordan didn't "Flop" his way to 6 rings. / thread, LOL.

[ninjacookies]

Lol, boy. Talk about concrete evidence. I mean an arbitrary SBNation (the same SB nation renowned for their Pulitzer level journalism) article with a handful of picture stills and an exaggerated quote from Mark Jackson?

That's OJ level dream team testimony right there.


No thanks.

I think I'll trust my eyes from you know...actual gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2NCcSxKLY

Now you tell me how easy of a time Jordan had from uncontested/vacant lanes due to this lack of zone defense you speak of. I'm pretty sure most of that clip is just centered around sheer undying will, a severe mismatch of talent, and hustle.

And the theme is prevalent from any clip you pick.

[rhigh2390]

Lol, boy. Talk about concrete evidence. I mean an arbitrary SBNation (the same SB nation renowned for their Pulitzer level journalism) article with a handful of picture stills and an exaggerated quote from Mark Jackson?

That's OJ level dream team testimony right there.


No thanks.

I think I'll trust my eyes from you know...actual gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2NCcSxKLY

Now you tell me how easy of a time Jordan had from uncontested/vacant lanes due to this lack of zone defense you speak of. I'm pretty sure most of that clip is just centered around sheer undying will, a severe mismatch of talent, and hustle.

And the theme is prevalent from any clip you pick.

Now thats a good video :) You wanted some evidence Homeless? There you go. Good day

[Homeless Infant]

For as much as you have shown, I can show you the exact opposite! In your mind, Jordan never once got double and triple teamed because "it wasn't allowed" yet you can go find on countless videos how many times Jordan was double, triple, sometimes quadruple teamed. And there was always somebody waiting for him at the rim. You showed me 2 gif's of Jordan with a clear paint area. That doesn't prove anything. In fact, in both of those gif's of Jordan there is at least 1 guy getting ready to collapse down on Jordan if he tries to go to the hole. Get off your high horse and realize there is a possibility you might not be 100% correct. I bet you are a ball to get along with in your personal life. Do you act like this everytime someone disagrees with you?

This is false, If you new the rules, you could double but you actually had to go and double the man, you couldn't just be in a certain area.

Apparently you don't understand the rules. Doubling was always allowed you just actually had to double and not cheat off your man.

Yes people were waiting to go and double if he got close enough to the rim, but look at Lebrons picture, there are multiple people already cheating into the lane.

Maybe your memories are not 100% correct and the rules, video, pics and commentary from players and coaches are correct.

[Homeless Infant]

Lol, boy. Talk about concrete evidence. I mean an arbitrary SBNation (the same SB nation renowned for their Pulitzer level journalism) article with a handful of picture stills and an exaggerated quote from Mark Jackson?

That's OJ level dream team testimony right there.


No thanks.

I think I'll trust my eyes from you know...actual gameplay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2NCcSxKLY

Now you tell me how easy of a time Jordan had from uncontested/vacant lanes due to this lack of zone defense you speak of. I'm pretty sure most of that clip is just centered around sheer undying will, a severe mismatch of talent, and hustle.

And the theme is prevalent from any clip you pick.


LOL, another I just go off memory than believe video, pics, Stan Van Gundy , derek fischer, etc .

Your memory versus NBA rules, video, pics, player and coach commentary.

OK George.

[bblaue1]

Longley and Wennington were 15 feet from the basket in a low post feed to Jordan on an isolation. Mostly in the triangle offense the 5 played at opposite side free throw line extended to open the lane on a mid post for Jordan. Early in Jordan's career he used that as a way to hook his defender and drive baseline. By moving baseline it sucked in your help defender from the 5 and the weak side 3. Jordan feasted on this spacing due to defenders having to honor his mid range jumper and ability to finish at rim. As he aged, the fade-away was still single teamed. He would hit it with one defender on him or swing it around to weak side if doubled. Longley thrived on his dives to the basket if he was weak side free throw line extended and his man went to help. Grant would generally stop at free throw line and wait for swing pass if Oakley went to double. Grant hit that mid range jumper with ease. Pippen was the post feeder in most instances on strong side. His man couldn't leave or it would leave Pippen unguarded on a curl to the middle if Jordan swung baseline or an open lane near the corner if Jordan went middle. Most of his triple and double team highlights are before the triangle was introduced. He had to keep it. Was he going to trust Orlando Woolridge? Packing the lane now would cause some issues without outside shooters to suck out the defenders. Teams still run isolation sets at mid post. Pretty sure Jordan wouldn't have much issue dictating his will now, unless he was on a team with no shooters. The biggest difference I could see that the no hand-checking rule would benefit Jordan would be in getting into half court sets. Not sure if many remember the point defender with his arm on the back the whole way up after inbounds. Add 4-5 seconds to each possession and you may have more options out of that triangle set. Lastly an open court Jordan would be lethal bringing up the ball. Could see 10-15 more offensive sets where he takes it straight to the hole before the defense could all head to the lane. Last thought: these are all assumptions with MJ. Lebron would be a monster in the 90's as well. Picture a post up monster like Barkley with Magics passing skills. May have been easier for him to average a triple double then than it is now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MJGOAT23]

NEVER. MJ was a grown a$$ man ballin from day 1

[duron]

Longley and Wennington were 15 feet from the basket in a low post feed to Jordan on an isolation. Mostly in the triangle offense the 5 played at opposite side free throw line extended to open the lane on a mid post for Jordan. Early in Jordan's career he used that as a way to hook his defender and drive baseline. By moving baseline it sucked in your help defender from the 5 and the weak side 3. Jordan feasted on this spacing due to defenders having to honor his mid range jumper and ability to finish at rim. As he aged, the fade-away was still single teamed. He would hit it with one defender on him or swing it around to weak side if doubled. Longley thrived on his dives to the basket if he was weak side free throw line extended and his man went to help. Grant would generally stop at free throw line and wait for swing pass if Oakley went to double. Grant hit that mid range jumper with ease. Pippen was the post feeder in most instances on strong side. His man couldn't leave or it would leave Pippen unguarded on a curl to the middle if Jordan swung baseline or an open lane near the corner if Jordan went middle. Most of his triple and double team highlights are before the triangle was introduced. He had to keep it. Was he going to trust Orlando Woolridge? Packing the lane now would cause some issues without outside shooters to suck out the defenders. Teams still run isolation sets at mid post. Pretty sure Jordan wouldn't have much issue dictating his will now, unless he was on a team with no shooters. The biggest difference I could see that the no hand-checking rule would benefit Jordan would be in getting into half court sets. Not sure if many remember the point defender with his arm on the back the whole way up after inbounds. Add 4-5 seconds to each possession and you may have more options out of that triangle set. Lastly an open court Jordan would be lethal bringing up the ball. Could see 10-15 more offensive sets where he takes it straight to the hole before the defense could all head to the lane. Last thought: these are all assumptions with MJ. Lebron would be a monster in the 90's as well. Picture a post up monster like Barkley with Magics passing skills. May have been easier for him to average a triple double then than it is now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Preach, brudda, preach.

To say either one of them couldn't adapt to and excel in different generations is ridiculous.

[hychang5]

Lol, which PBM is this homeless infant guy?

[Bulls90s]

Jordan got every star call/ non call imaginable. If anyone even farted in Jordans direction they got called for a foul and his most famous shot ever was an obvious and blatant push off.

You're talking about Jordan's farewell shot with the Bulls? Jordan put a move on Russell so good was why Jordan had an open shot..here's the vid..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfzPF1hUpk0

Not Jordan's fault that Russell slipped..#23 was that damn quick..your silly post is invalid..Now, excuse me, I have a book to read..it's about Jordan.

I want what you smoke.

[corndog]

Lol, which PBM is this homeless infant guy?

Homeless Infant was the PBM JOHNJOHNNY

[hychang5]

Homeless Infant was the PBM JOHNJOHNNY

Haha, it was so obvious that he was a PBM, the mods sniffed that out pretty quick :)!

[kairi-2008]

No, it wasn't rewarded as much in the 90's.
But would he have done it if he thought it would have given him an edge ?
Hell yes.

[ninjacookies]

Don't feed the troll.

Oh wait....

Gotteeeeeem.