All Star Reserves announced on Thursday! Make your predictions now!

[the27guy]

First - let's recap the starters.

East - Irving, Derozan, Lebron, Giannis, Butler

West - Curry, Harden, Durant, Kawhi, AD

That leaves us with 7 reserves to pick in each conference.

Here are mine-

East-

Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Love
Kemba
Paul George
Millsap

Toughest omission - Embiid. Wish he would have played more minutes.

West-

Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul (injured)
Hayward
Draymond
Marc
Gobert
Cousins
Klay (injury replacement)

Toughest omission - Mike Conley. He's been great, but out 12 games is too many.

What say you? What's your prediction for how tomorrow turns out?

[csrockerzero]

I'd like to see KAT make the team. He already has a 2.4 VORP through 45 games (and he's played in every game this season.) A lot of centers in the West are having a good season as well though..

[Penny and KG]

I just hope fat melo stays home!

[yiguiri2002]

Who I think should make it:

East - Lowry, Thomas, Wall, Love, Millsap, Whiteside, Walker
West - Westbrook, Green, Cousins, Gobert, Gasol, Towns, Jokic (might replace Gobert with Hayward)

Who I think would make it:

East - Lowry, Thomas, Wall, Love, Millsap, Carmelo, Howard
West - Westbrook, Green, Cousins, Gasol, Conley, Thompson, Aldridge

[jstasyk1121]

i think Jabari deserves a look possibly over a couple of the names mentioned...millsap/p.george maybe...but those guys have bigger names...so...


Jabari averaging 20pts/6reb on 50%FG and 40%3pt...having a real nice year...

[GeechQuest]

East: Lowry, Thomas, Wall, Walker, Love, Embiid, Whiteside (I think Embiid will be replaced by Carmelo or Porzingis if injured)

West: Westbrook, Lillard, McCollum, Cousins, Gasol, Gobert, Jordan

I think KAT has a great shot at getting in for 1 of the bigmen above and Conley or CP3 (if healthy) above McCollum.

Jokic is almost a shoe-in for next year though. That guy is GREAT and great for the league.

[csrockerzero]

I just hope fat melo stays home!

For a second, I thought you meant Fab Melo lol

[the27guy]

For a second, I thought you meant Fab Melo lol

Ha! i did too.

[the27guy]

East: Lowry, Thomas, Wall, Walker, Love, Embiid, Whiteside (I think Embiid will be replaced by Carmelo or Porzingis if injured)

West: Westbrook, Lillard, McCollum, Cousins, Gasol, Gobert, Jordan

I think KAT has a great shot at getting in for 1 of the bigmen above and Conley or CP3 (if healthy) above McCollum.

Jokic is almost a shoe-in for next year though. That guy is GREAT and great for the league.

You didn't put Hayward in, so we're no longer on speaking terms. Goodbye.

[GeechQuest]

You didn't put Hayward in, so we're no longer on speaking terms. Goodbye.

Hahahaha. I didn't put Draymond in or CP3 either.

The West is tough to choose from. The East is pretty easy and I even think that 11th/12th in the East probably don't deserve it.

The PG play and PF/C play in the West is light years ahead of the East.

When someone like CP3 could be argued as NOT being an All-Star, but Kyrie Irving is a starter (not that he doesn't deserve it) something isn't right....:coffee::coffee::coffee:

[the27guy]

Hahahaha. I didn't put Draymond in or CP3 either.

The West is tough to choose from. The East is pretty easy and I even think that 11th/12th in the East probably don't deserve it.

The PG play and PF/C play in the West is light years ahead of the East.

When someone like CP3 could be argued as NOT being an All-Star, but Kyrie Irving is a starter (not that he doesn't deserve it) :coffee::coffee::coffee:

Agreed. The thing about the East though is, it's not as bleak as it looks when you just look at the starters. Irving and Derozan in my opinion, are two of the top twelve players in the conference, but I don't think either is even in the top three guards. It's been funny to hear Toronto fans talk about Derozan making it over Lowry. I feel like no one who really watches Toronto thinks DDR is the better player. And Isaiah and john Wall have both been better than Kyrie. But I'm okay with all 5 making it.....

To your point though, I'm taking the league leader in win shares, Chris Paul, over all of them.

People forget how hot LAC started out. And that's largely because of CP. Losing Griffin was a HUGE blow to how well they were playing.

[andy88c]

East-

Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Love
Kemba
DeRozan
Otto Porter, Jr. (no, I'm not a Wizards fan)

just missed: Dwight Howard, Millsap


West-

Russell Westbrook
Gobert
Jokic
Hayward
Chris Paul (injured)
Draymond
Cousins
D. Jordan (injury replacement)

Yeah, Paul is a guard. But I don't think there are any other deserving guards right now and Curry and Harden can both play the 1. Durant could be a "SG" in an All-Star game, too.

Just missed - Marc Gasol (didn't want to be a homer, numbers like the guys above more), Conley (not enough games), George Hill (not enough games), Enes Kanter, Aldridge, Lillard. Thompson really hasn't been that good this year...doesn't deserve it.

The West has so many more good bigs. It's unreal.

[the27guy]

East-

Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Love
Kemba
DeRozan
Otto Porter, Jr. (no, I'm not a Wizards fan)

just missed: Dwight Howard, Millsap


West-

Russell Westbrook
Gobert
Jokic
Hayward
Chris Paul (injured)
Draymond
Cousins
D. Jordan (injury replacement)

Yeah, Paul is a guard. But I don't think there are any other deserving guards right now and Curry and Harden can both play the 1. Durant could be a "SG" in an All-Star game, too.

Just missed - Marc Gasol (didn't want to be a homer, numbers like the guys above more), Conley (not enough games), George Hill (not enough games), Enes Kanter, Aldridge, Lillard. Thompson really hasn't been that good this year...doesn't deserve it.

The West has so many more good bigs. It's unreal.

Love the Otto Porter pick. Great year for him. Derozan is a starter though. :)

[andy88c]

Love the Otto Porter pick. Great year for him. Derozan is a starter though. :)

Oops...I have no idea how he's a starter over Lowry or Thomas. Millsap makes the game then. I also like Myles Turner potentially.

For you, as a Jazz fan, it's too bad George Hill hasn't played about half the year. His numbers, if he had kept them up, would've easily been All-Star worthy. Gobert should be starting over AD, too.

The East is weak as hell in terms of guys worthy of the All-Star game. They have very few good bigs.

[the27guy]

Oops...I have no idea how he's a starter over Lowry or Thomas. Millsap makes the game then. I also like Myles Turner potentially.

For you, as a Jazz fan, it's too bad George Hill hasn't played about half the year. His numbers, if he had kept them up, would've easily been All-Star worthy. Gobert should be starting over AD, too.

The East is weak as hell in terms of guys worthy of the All-Star game. They have very few good bigs.

Hill has been really good, no question. He's coming back to Earth this past few weeks though. But when both he and Hayward play, we've only lost twice the entire season - something like 16 and 2.... so yeah, we're not complaining about him. :)

Also, yeah, everyone's wondering the same thing about Derozan.

[Ottomatic]

Otto Porter over guys like Milsap and George all day. (No offense to them, they are really good players and will be picked over him due to usage and name recognition). But Porter has been better.

I pretty much agree with all of these lists, I think the center logjam in the West is the most interesting situation. I think Gobert and Cousins have to make it, but then you have Gasol, Adams, Kanter, Jokic, Towns and Jordan who are all probably better this year than the small guys (Klay, Lillard, Bledsoe and Mccollum). But some of the less deserving backcourt players will probably have to make it over the bigs so the entire bench isn't big men.

[Wolves4Life]

West for me since that's the only conference I give a rats poop about.

McCollum
Westbrook
Heyward or Gobert, Jazz aren't good enough to have 2 all stars
Cousins
Klay (simply because I believe the coach can put a player on don't make them an all star)
Towns. Not a homer pick. He's averaging 22-12 that's more than All Star worthy.

[gomiamigo]

Embiid's getting in and it's not even close. Production, plus fan support, plus media support. The NBA needs new up and coming stars and he's #1 on the list along with Giannis at 1a.

[Wolves4Life]

Embiid's getting in and it's not even close. Production, plus fan support, plus media support. The NBA needs new up and coming stars and he's #1 on the list along with Giannis at 1a.

Embiid hasn't played enough minutes to be worthy of an all star.

[Penny and KG]

For a second, I thought you meant Fab Melo lol

Fab's busy studying haha! Melo just has so many fans, he's always in. Hoping that changes this year.

[DajuanWagner]

Yuta Tabuse and it's not even close........

[chris_ac]

Embiid's getting in and it's not even close. Production, plus fan support, plus media support. The NBA needs new up and coming stars and he's #1 on the list along with Giannis at 1a.

Did Embiid and Giannis pass Towns by a mile? Just curious.

[volblorx8634]

All the lists have been good, but here's mine

East:
Lowry
Thomas
Love
Myles Turner (I'll take him over Embiid because of the missed games)
Wall
Kemba
Paul George

West:
Westbrook
Cousins
CP3 (replaced by Hayward)
KAT
Gasol
McCollum or Lillard
Gobert

Would have placed Jokic somewhere if he had played more minutes in the first month and a half of the season.

[the27guy]

Otto Porter over guys like Milsap and George all day. (No offense to them, they are really good players and will be picked over him due to usage and name recognition). But Porter has been better.

I pretty much agree with all of these lists, I think the center logjam in the West is the most interesting situation. I think Gobert and Cousins have to make it, but then you have Gasol, Adams, Kanter, Jokic, Towns and Jordan who are all probably better this year than the small guys (Klay, Lillard, Bledsoe and Mccollum). But some of the less deserving backcourt players will probably have to make it over the bigs so the entire bench isn't big men.

If the entire bench in the east is small, and mostly big in the west, that may lead to some fun.

[tmar214]

East:

Lowry
Thomas
Wall
Love
Embiid
George
Howard

Could see Howard being interchangeable with Carmelo, drummond, whiteside, turner, milsap, kemba etc but I think the first 4 are close to locks with Embiid and George being likely selections.

West:

Westbrook
Cousins
Draymond
Gobert
Gasol
Lillard
Mccollum

Def some biggish snubs in the west but Westbrook, cousins, draymond, gobert and Gasol all seem like they have to get in. After lillard was snubbed last year I think he will find his way in. Leaves one spot. Mccollum, hayward, towns, Deandre, and bledsoe all seem deserving but I see it going to a SG so and id lean Mccollum.

[rookies]

Its tough with Embiid. I want him to be an all star and I think when he plays hes a all star. I would put him in. I think its crazy to have 2 jazz players and I think its crazy to have 4 warriors. Draymond green or even klay on a portland team or minnesota phoenix type team are not all stars and are lost in the mix same exact thing with gobert. I think all stars should be spread over lots of teams it helps small market and makes players more well known. Do we really need 4 warriors? Are they that great or great together? I would rather see a tie of hayward and gobert go to towns and go to embiid etc. It helps spread the all star players.
My 7 for the west
Westbrook
Hayward
Cp3 (injury replace with Lillard)
Cousins
KAT
Gasol
Klay

[drobfan8]

I think McCollum has been more impressive than Lillard. But both will probably miss out.

I think Gobert deserves the spot over Hayward.

[gameissued]

Small chance but gonna say Lillard and McCollum too will get in later (replacing injured CP3 and AD.. because AD is always tweeking something).

[Rareairx23]

I hope they take embiid over millsap. Joel has played 13 less games yes, but the body of work is much more impressive

Embiid: 25.3 mpg 19.8ppg 7.8rpg 2.5blocks per
Millsap: 34 mpg 18ppg 8.1rpg 1.5steals per

And the per 36 minutes isnt even close, embiid should be a clear choice over millsap

[chris_ac]

Embiid and Towns are headlining the Rising Stars game so that may bode badly for their ASG chances.

[Pathora]

East: Thomas, Lowry, Wall, Walker, George, Millsap, Love (him vs Embiid is close)
West: Westbrook, Thompson, Lillard, Hayward, Cousins, Gasol, Jordan

The coaches usually try and represent most the playoff teams, and mediocre/decent teams rarely get 2 all-stars so I think guys like Gobert, Jabari, and CJ McCollum aren't going to get in, also I don't think Draymond gets in as a 4th Warrior. CP3 might be picked initially instead of Hayward or Klay tonight.

[bulljh]

I just can't see two reps from the Blazers (20-27- forth in there division) get in. Maybe one, definitely not both.

[the27guy]

I've listened to all my favorite highly analytical podcasters.... man, the end of the West is just about impossible to predict.

It feels like Russ, CP3 (replaced), Draymond, Marc Gasol, and Cousins are locks. But those last three spots are going to be REALLY tough. LMA, Gobert, Hayward, Lillard, Klay, Conley and DeAndre with a real shot..... but I can't get a read at all on which of those three make it. Going to be some unhappy fans tonight. I think Hayward should be a lock....but I think there's a good chance that he doesn't make it.

[Braswell10]

John wall is confirmed to be on the East. Per ESPN.

[oshmeehan]

Anyone else think they should expand the all-star rosters to 15 players?

[Pathora]

Anyone else think they should expand the all-star rosters to 15 players?

No, I think 12 is fine...if you had 15, some guys would get 2 minutes like how it goes in regular season games. Fans want to see the starters get more minutes, not to make sure Conley or somebody like that get 2-3 minutes instead of Curry/Westbrook/Harden.

[yiguiri2002]

I've listened to all my favorite highly analytical podcasters.... man, the end of the West is just about impossible to predict.

It feels like Russ, CP3 (replaced), Draymond, Marc Gasol, and Cousins are locks. But those last three spots are going to be REALLY tough. LMA, Gobert, Hayward, Lillard, Klay, Conley and DeAndre with a real shot..... but I can't get a read at all on which of those three make it. Going to be some unhappy fans tonight. I think Hayward should be a lock....but I think there's a good chance that he doesn't make it.

I think the locks are Russ, Green and Cousins.

Here's the catch though.

CP3 was definitively going in as a guard. Now, since he's injured, voters might be inclined to leave him out altogether (why vote for an injured guy?) and put the next best guard there. Which happens to be Klay or Conley.

I think Klay makes it over Conley based on this. After that? No idea. But it would be sad to see three of the Hayward/Gobert/Gasol/Conley/Towns/Lillard group not make it.

[the27guy]

I think the locks are Russ, Green and Cousins.

Here's the catch though.

CP3 was definitively going in as a guard. Now, since he's injured, voters might be inclined to leave him out altogether (why vote for an injured guy?) and put the next best guard there. Which happens to be Klay or Conley.

I think Klay makes it over Conley based on this. After that? No idea. But it would be sad to see three of the Hayward/Gobert/Gasol/Conley/Towns/Lillard group not make it.

Any way you slice it... somebody is getting SHAFTED. Damian Lillard was the last one out last year. Do the coaches remember that? Do the coaches look at the success of the Spurs, and automatically add their second best player (LMA) to the team? Do they look at the Jazz, and say, ehh, they don't deserve two guys? Or, hey, Mike Conley has been really good for so many years.... he has to be an all star this year.

I really think it comes down to 7 guys competing for 3 spots. Hayward, Gobert, DeAndre, Klay, LMA, Conley, and Lillard. Three guys in. Four guys out. I think the first two are VERY easy.... but that's likely because I'm extremely biased.

PS - Towns, Jokic, and others have absolutely had good enough seasons to get in, in other years. Just not in the West this year. The group is too strong.

[the27guy]

I think the locks are Russ, Green and Cousins.

Here's the catch though.

CP3 was definitively going in as a guard. Now, since he's injured, voters might be inclined to leave him out altogether (why vote for an injured guy?) and put the next best guard there. Which happens to be Klay or Conley.

I think Klay makes it over Conley based on this. After that? No idea. But it would be sad to see three of the Hayward/Gobert/Gasol/Conley/Towns/Lillard group not make it.

Oh, and, I think the coaches will give CP his due. I'd bet it's nearly unanimous. Which is good, because, like you, I think the two wild card spots SHOULD go to front court players. Though not everyone agrees.

[justdagoodstuff]

I don't see why Draymond Green is even being considered. He's averaging 10 points a game. I get that he's on a winning team that could win 70 games again this year, but they're winning because of Durant, Curry and Thompson.

[the27guy]

I don't see why Draymond Green is even in the conversation. He's averaging 10 points a game. I get that he's on a winning team that could win 70 games again this year, but they're winning because of Durant, Curry and Thompson.

He's considered one of the two best defensive players in the league. And he's an awesome matchup problem on offense running point as much as he does.

[justdagoodstuff]

He's considered one of the two best defensive players in the league. And he's an awesome matchup problem on offense running point as much as he does.

There's a good amount of players though that you can say do a little of this, and a little of that.

[Ottomatic]

I don't see why Draymond Green is even being considered. He's averaging 10 points a game. I get that he's on a winning team that could win 70 games again this year, but they're winning because of Durant, Curry and Thompson.

People were crying when Russ' triple double average didn't garner him a starting spot... Well Green is almost averaging a triple double despite having the ball in his hands like a third of the time that Russ has it.

He is amazing and if you've watched the Warriors the past couple of years you know he's been the second most important Warrior behind Curry (though obviously now it's Curry/Durant as 1a 1b). Not even to mention what he does defensively. Can guard multiple positions, block shots and get steals. Truly one of the best players in the game.

[yiguiri2002]

There's a good amount of players though that you can say do a little of this, and a little of that.

What players in the league can score 11 points while getting more than 8 rebounds and 7 assists WHILE being the best defender on the best defensive team?

[the27guy]

People were crying when Russ' triple double average didn't garner him a starting spot... Well Green is almost averaging a triple double despite having the ball in his hands like a third of the time that Russ has it.

He is amazing and if you've watched the Warriors the past couple of years you know he's been the second most important Warrior behind Curry (though obviously now it's Curry/Durant as 1a 1b). Not even to mention what he does defensively. Can guard multiple positions, block shots and get steals. Truly one of the best players in the game.

I'd like to disagree.

I can't stand the guy.

But he's a top 15 guy in the league... even if he averaged 5 points a game, he'd still be an all star.

[bulljh]

I don't see why Draymond Green is even being considered. He's averaging 10 points a game. I get that he's on a winning team that could win 70 games again this year, but they're winning because of Durant, Curry and Thompson.

There are quite a few people that will tell you that Green is the reason why the Warriors could win 70. That's pretty short sighted if you're basing your opinion on points alone.

[Ottomatic]

I'd like to disagree.

I can't stand the guy.

But he's a top 15 guy in the league... even if he averaged 5 points a game, he'd still be an all star.

Yup, he makes such a big impact in so many facets of the game it's amazing. Stats don't jump out at you, but he literally fills every category and plays great defense. If you're average or better at everything, you're elite.

[jstasyk1121]

i truly dont get the "he is a great 2-way player"....he is great on defense...yes....on offense?? no he isnt great...he isnt even good!!

not talking just about 10ppg...which is more a result of having 3 guys who are 20-27ppg on his team already....

but he is currently at .448/.322/.667

that is not a great offensive player....he is if anything at this point a defensive specialist....32% on 3s...well RW is around that number and all he does is get blasted 24/7 on here for shooting 3s when he shouldnt...(Russ is actually better this year at 33%)...

bad FT shooter

and as a PF/C mostly...he is shooting 44% overall...which is not good(78th among 116 qualified players)

he gets assists at a high rate...absolutely...but getting assists doesnt equal being a great offensive player?? or does that now?? idk...seems like they are completely different things...

so anyways...how is a guy who is at 10.7ppg with 44%FG...32%3pt...66%FT...considered a great 2-way player??

[the27guy]

i truly dont get the "he is a great 2-way player"....he is great on defense...yes....on offense?? no he isnt great...he isnt even good!!

not talking just about 10ppg...which is more a result of having 3 guys who are 20-27ppg on his team already....

but he is currently at .448/.322/.667

that is not a great offensive player....he is if anything at this point a defensive specialist....32% on 3s...well RW is around that number and all he does is get blasted 24/7 on here for shooting 3s when he shouldnt...(Russ is actually better this year at 33%)...

bad FT shooter

and as a PF/C mostly...he is shooting 44% overall...which is not good(78th among 116 qualified players)

he gets assists at a high rate...absolutely...but getting assists doesnt equal being a great offensive player?? or does that now?? idk...seems like they are completely different things...

so anyways...how is a guy who is at 10.7ppg with 44%FG...32%3pt...66%FT...considered a great 2-way player??

I'd agree that he's not an efficient scorer. You are 100% that he could improve here. But I do feel like you just kind of quickly hit two points that he's not just good at. He's one of the best.

First - he's one of the better and most defenders that we've ever seen. Top three defender for three years now. That's enough, on it's own to warrant AS consideration.

Second - he doesn't just get assists. He gets a TON for a player of his position. Name another Center-PF that's ever assisted like Green. LeBron plays some 4..... and I think that about sums it up. But not only does he assist a ton.... he runs the offense a TON. As a PF/C!

DOn't get me wrong, I don't like the guy, and I'd be just fine to see him not make it. But as far as helping his team win.... he's a lot more effective than some guys that put up monster numbers every night.

[Ottomatic]

Nobody called Draymond elite offensively. His shooting is down from last year, when he was actually a solid above average shooter. But this year he is still right around average as far as TS% and eFG% go. Little below average on 3s and free throws, but a high percentage on his twos. And BTW he mitigates his mediocre shooting by not taking many shots, so it doesn't hurt his value much. Some mediocre shooters take a ton of shots to obtain a high PPG, but in actuality it hurts their value.

Elite passing. Above average rebounder. Abover average getting steals and blocks. Elite defensively overall. He's average or better everywhere and even elite in some areas.

[bulljh]

i truly dont get the "he is a great 2-way player"....he is great on defense...yes....on offense?? no he isnt great...he isnt even good!!

not talking just about 10ppg...which is more a result of having 3 guys who are 20-27ppg on his team already....

but he is currently at .448/.322/.667

that is not a great offensive player....he is if anything at this point a defensive specialist....32% on 3s...well RW is around that number and all he does is get blasted 24/7 on here for shooting 3s when he shouldnt...(Russ is actually better this year at 33%)...

bad FT shooter

and as a PF/C mostly...he is shooting 44% overall...which is not good(78th among 116 qualified players)

he gets assists at a high rate...absolutely...but getting assists doesnt equal being a great offensive player?? or does that now?? idk...seems like they are completely different things...

so anyways...how is a guy who is at 10.7ppg with 44%FG...32%3pt...66%FT...considered a great 2-way player??

His low FG% is due to that fact that he's 6'6 on a good day being guarded be true centers and taller power forwards. He has to rely more on his jumper instead of banging in the paint.

[yiguiri2002]

Nobody called Draymond elite offensively. His shooting is down from last year, when he was actually a solid above average shooter. But this year he is still right around average as far as TS% and eFG% go. Little below average on 3s and free throws, but a high percentage on his twos. And BTW he mitigates his mediocre shooting by not taking many shots, so it doesn't hurt his value much. Some mediocre shooters take a ton of shots to obtain a high PPG, but in actuality it hurts their value.

Elite passing. Above average rebounder. Abover average getting steals and blocks. Elite defensively overall. He's average or better everywhere and even elite in some areas.

Exactly. I like the "He can't shoot so he's not good on offense, which is half the game, so he's not that good" argument.

The ONLY thing Draymond is bad at is shooting. And people use that to make it seem like he's a scrub. He's like the anti-Klay.

[SacGWYNN19]

I don't see why Draymond Green is even being considered. He's averaging 10 points a game. I get that he's on a winning team that could win 70 games again this year, but they're winning because of Durant, Curry and Thompson.

He leads the best team in the league in assists, rebounds and steals. He can score but doesn't need to!

[jstasyk1121]

1. i nowhere said he is a scrub
2. i stated that he was great on defense
3. i stated that he gets a very high assist total which is great
4. if he isnt very good at shooting.. all facets of shooting then how is he "above avg/elite everywhere"...

and i didnt say scoring is half the game either....but when people say he is a great 2-way player they mean defense/offense....defense is his overall play but stat wise is reb/stl/blk and with him gets a massive boost cuz he does defend bigger guys allowing them to play small ball and kill teams on offense...

but offensively he is good at distributing to his all-world shooting lineup...but on his own he is a poor shooter from everywhere on the court this year...32% on 3s is brutal...66% on FT is also very bad...and 44% overall FG is bad as well....

FG% he is 78th of 116 qualified
3pt % he is 110th of 122 qualified
FT% he is 101st of 110 qualified

he is awful in all of these...granted i know he is 4th if not 5th option on his team to actually shoot anymore since KD got there....but still...when he does he is among the leagues worst all around at actually scoring the ball when you just look at his %'s

now i am not discounting the fact that he is top 10 in assists, top 20 in rebounds, top 5 in steals, top 20 in blocks, top 10 in ast/to rate...all true...and all very impressive when put together as same player...but to be fair most of that is defense related stuff

offensive end of floor he has Assists...after that he isnt doing much...and since curry/klay are always just ready to catch that pass and launch a 3...his total is very impressive...if the teams PG wasnt such a good scorer then they would be handling ball much more i would think and prob average 10+ ast but we would see Draymond scoring go up with that drop in assists as well...

i dont know...i just think the whole 2-way stud thing is overblown a bit...he is in the perfect situation to average 7+ ast/gm...but scoring wise he is brutal this year...defense-beast...not denying that at all

[justdagoodstuff]

There are a lot of players who could average 7 assist a game while passing to the likes of Curry, Durant, and Thompson.

[justdagoodstuff]

Yup, he makes such a big impact in so many facets of the game it's amazing. Stats don't jump out at you, but he literally fills every category and plays great defense. If you're average or better at everything, you're elite.

That's a six man of the year candidate, but not an all star in my opinion.

[Wolves4Life]

Green and Jordan over McCollum and Towns? Joke.

[ReggieEvansPC]

Really glad to see Marc Gasol made the reserves.

[bulljh]

Green and Jordan over McCollum and Towns? Joke.

Team record plays a huge part in all this.

[Wolves4Life]

Team record plays a huge part in all this.

I get that but numbers should also.

[jstasyk1121]

Still most surprised at Klay...think there were clear better options and more important to their team type guys....

[the27guy]

Western Bench All-Stars-

Russ
Draymond
Hayward
Cousins
Klay Thompson
Marc
and DeAndre

I'm super happy for Hayward. He deserved it.... such an awesome an accomplishment for him...

But DeAndre Jordan over Rudy Gobert is so terrible. Just so completely awful.

[the27guy]

Still most surprised at Klay...think there were clear better options and more important to their team type guys....

Agree that he shouldn't have made it.

[jstasyk1121]

East has 0 centers...only like 2 PF...rest all guards and couple SF....conferences are so different...west could have easily had like 8 pf/c make team...lol

[Wolves4Life]

Western Bench All-Stars-

Russ
Draymond
Hayward
Cousins
Klay Thompson
Marc
and DeAndre

I'm super happy for Hayward. He deserved it.... such an awesome an accomplishment for him...

But DeAndre Jordan over Rudy Gobert is so terrible. Just so completely awful.

Not over Towns. Jazz not good enough to have 2 all stars. Hell Warriors aren't good enough to have 4, Curry and Durant only 2 that should be on the team.

[jstasyk1121]

Western Bench All-Stars-

Russ
Draymond
Hayward
Cousins
Klay Thompson
Marc
and DeAndre

I'm super happy for Hayward. He deserved it.... such an awesome an accomplishment for him...

But DeAndre Jordan over Rudy Gobert is so terrible. Just so completely awful.

Wonder if they figured clips need a guy and blake/cp3 hurt off and on all year...so let's get Jordan in there...and prob felt 2 jazz guys wasn't justifiable....who knows...or they really just love jordan...cuz I think based on stats and mixing in team record u could probably squeak 3-5 guys over him...

[the27guy]

Not over Towns. Jazz not good enough to have 2 all stars. Hell Warriors aren't good enough to have 4, Curry and Durant only 2 that should be on the team.

I really like Towns.... but tough putting a guy on a team with that record in the AS game.

Rudy leads the league in several defensive and offensive metrics. Is probably the Defensive player of the year at this point, and last I looked leading the league in Points per possession, while shooting nearly 70% on free throws.

[Wolves4Life]

I really like Towns.... but tough putting a guy on a team with that record in the AS game.

Rudy leads the league in several defensive and offensive metrics. Is probably the Defensive player of the year at this point, and last I looked leading the league in Points per possession, while shooting nearly 70% on free throws.

I get he's having a good year but Jazz shouldn't have 2 All stars. ASG should be best players in the league regardless of team record. Towns is arguably 2nd best center in the West (Cousins) and 2 less deserving Centers are in the game over him.

[the27guy]

Wonder if they figured clips need a guy and blake/cp3 hurt off and on all year...so let's get Jordan in there...

Nailed it. Basically this came down to exactly this. The Clips are too good to have no representation.... which I get.

But man. I just don't see the case for DeAndre over Rudy.

[the27guy]

I get he's having a good year but Jazz shouldn't have 2 All stars. ASG should be best players in the league regardless of team record. Towns is arguably 2nd best center in the West (Cousins) and 2 less deserving Centers are in the game over him.

I don't think Towns has had a better year than Gobert. Sorry dude. All fandom aside, Gobert has had a better year.

Towns will be a monster for years to come. But dude, he wasn't even in the top 15 or 16 guys this year.

[Ottomatic]

I get that but numbers should also.

Jordan is better than Towns and CJ by the numbers. But he is not better than Gobert this year.

[Wolves4Life]

Jordan is better than Towns and CJ by the numbers. But he is not better than Gobert this year.

Jordan's 12 points per game makes him not all star worthy. I get Sabermetrics make him look good but he's just a rebounder and sometimes shot blocker. He doesn't change the game on offense.

[Ottomatic]

Jordan's 12 points per game makes him not all star worthy. I get Sabermetrics make him look good but he's just a rebounder and sometimes shot blocker. He doesn't change the game on offense.

Sabermetrics don't make him look good, what he does on the court does. What happens on the court makes the numbers, he averages 14 points 16 boards per 36 on 70% shooting.

I don't care that he doesn't go outside of the paint and shoot a J. Missing more shots wouldn't make him more valuable. Limited or not, making 70% of his shots is insanely valuable. He's been the best center in the game over the last three years. CJ Mccollum isn't even in his league as a player.

But Gobert was without a doubt better than Jordan this year. Gobert has been the best center in the game.

[TheCelticsfan29]

Yeah Gobert certainly deserved it

[tmar214]

.467 / 21.1 / 3.8 / 1.9 / .8 stls
.457 / 21.8 / 5.7 / 3.5 / 1 stl
.480 / 23.5 / 3.5 / 3.7 / 1.1 stls



I get that its not all about stats but it confuses me that the top 2 (klay / hayward) are allstars and the bottom (CJ) isnt. Don't see the argument for either of them over CJ.

[the27guy]

Sabermetrics don't make him look good, what he does on the court does. What happens on the court makes the numbers, he averages 14 points 16 boards per 36 on 70% shooting.

I don't care that he doesn't go outside of the paint and shoot a J. Missing more shots wouldn't make him more valuable. Limited or not, making 70% of his shots is insanely valuable. He's been the best center in the game over the last three years. CJ Mccollum isn't even in his league.

But Gobert was without a doubt better than Jordan this year. Gobert has been the best center in the game.

I think a ton of people under appreciate the value that 70% from the field. Offensive efficiency is offensive efficiency. It doesn't matter where it comes from. And you know what? DeAndre has been snubbed so many times before. I'm happy for him. It's just a killer because, like you said, he's been tremendous this year.

Typically when you add best defensive player and most efficient offensive player together, you get an all star.

I'd argue he does a lot more to help a team win than a guy like Cousins.... but clearly, the coaches disagree. They know a lot more than we do.... but man, sometimes, I wonder.

[the27guy]

.467 / 21.1 / 3.8 / 1.9 / .8 stls
.457 / 21.8 / 5.7 / 3.5 / 1 stl
.480 / 23.5 / 3.5 / 3.7 / 1.1 stls



I get that its not all about stats but it confuses me that the top 2 (klay / hayward) are allstars and the bottom (CJ) isnt. Don't see the argument for either of them over CJ.

Well, in the case of Hayward, he's also his team's main distributor, creator, and an above average defender, and his team is a lot better.

[Ottomatic]

.467 / 21.1 / 3.8 / 1.9 / .8 stls
.457 / 21.8 / 5.7 / 3.5 / 1 stl
.480 / 23.5 / 3.5 / 3.7 / 1.1 stls



I get that its not all about stats but it confuses me that the top 2 (klay / hayward) are allstars and the bottom (CJ) isnt. Don't see the argument for either of them over CJ.

CJ is good, but the number one reason here is that he plays no defense at all, he and Lillard's defense this year is a big reason they stink.

That being said, Klay shouldn't have sniffed the all star game, but Hayward is better than CJ.

[jstasyk1121]

I don't think klay should be in either...but if comparing those two...they are similar and one is on #1 tm in league while other is on hugely disappointing team...

[Ottomatic]

I think a ton of people under appreciate the value that 70% from the field. Offensive efficiency is offensive efficiency. It doesn't matter where it comes from. And you know what? DeAndre has been snubbed so many times before. I'm happy for him. It's just a killer because, like you said, he's been tremendous this year.

Typically when you add best defensive player and most efficient offensive player together, you get an all star.

I'd argue he does a lot more to help a team win than a guy like Cousins.... but clearly, the coaches disagree. They know a lot more than we do.... but man, sometimes, I wonder.

Scoring average still reigns supreme, I follow baseball heavily and fans eventually caught on with player evaluation there. Basketball's new wave of thinking is still relatively young.

Ironically though, this year I actually do feel Cousins has been an all-star (I've been hard on him as most know) I have Gobert over him as well, but no problem with him making it.

[tmar214]

Well, in the case of Hayward, he's also his team's main distributor, creator, and an above average defender, and his team is a lot better.

Yea def understand haywards case more.

Im def surprised that neither Lillard or Mccollum got in. Expected only one to get in from hayward / gobert and thought gobert had a much better case.


Really is a great time for talent in the NBA right now. Tons of great players left off and two of the guys who made it likely wouldn't have even had a shot if Paul / Griffin were healthy all season.

[the27guy]

Scoring average still reigns supreme, I follow baseball heavily and fans eventually caught on with player evaluation there. Basketball's new wave of thinking is still relatively young.

Ironically though, this year I actually do feel Cousins has been an all-star (I've been hard on him as most know) I have Gobert over him as well, but no problem with him making it.

Same. Exactly right about scoring average. Also, his on/off shows that he has really helped his team - which hasn't been the case in the past.

Tough to leave him off. He does still have 2-3 plays a game where he really costs his team. Doesn't get back on D. Get's techs. Yells at refs while the play is happening. Plus, there are still the reports that people just tire of playing with him...

But yeah, you can't have those numbers and be left off.

Just for fun... this is how I'd rank the Western Conference stars to date-

1. Harden
2. Westbrook
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Chris Paul (injured)
7. Marc
8. Draymond
9. AD
10. Gobert
11. Hayward
12. Lillard
13. Conley
14. DeAndre
15. Thompson
16. LMA
17. Towns
18. Bledsoe
19. McCollum
20. Eric Gordon

[ReggieEvansPC]

Same. Exactly right about scoring average. Also, his on/off shows that he has really helped his team - which hasn't been the case in the past.

Tough to leave him off. He does still have 2-3 plays a game where he really costs his team. Doesn't get back on D. Get's techs. Yells at refs while the play is happening. Plus, there are still the reports that people just tire of playing with him...

But yeah, you can't have those numbers and be left off.

Just for fun... this is how I'd rank the Western Conference stars to date-

1. Harden
2. Westbrook
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Chris Paul (injured)
7. Marc
8. Draymond
9. AD
10. Gobert
11. Hayward
12. Lillard
13. Conley
14. DeAndre
15. Thompson
16. LMA
17. Towns
18. Bledsoe
19. McCollum
20. Eric Gordon

No Cousins?

[tmar214]

Havent seen anyone talk about the east yet.

Lowry
IT
Wall
Love
George
Kemba
Millsap

Overall like it and think all are deserving. Thought embiid might get in but otherwise top 5 were all close to locks and Kemba / Millsap were fair pulls from the group of 6-7 that had a shot.

[the27guy]

No Cousins?

Heck!!!

I knew I forgot somebody.

13. Ahead of Conley. But if we're just evaluating talent, number 1.

[Pathora]

Was close to perfect, really didn't think they'd put Draymond in over some of other guys.

[kyleuk21]

Towns not getting in is BS

[justdagoodstuff]

Gobert should of made it over Green. Some use the record argument against Towns, but that same argument could of been used against Cousins.

[GeechQuest]

No idea how Draymond and Klay got in.

I don't deny Drays defense, but Bruce Bowen was an even better defender and he didn't get in. I think Draymond would be a bench player on 85% of NBA teams. It's not that he's not good, but he's not All-Star good.

Klay Thompson? No chance he's more deserving than KAT, Gobert, Lillard, McCollum, or even Eric Bledsoe.

I'm with most going Gobert over Hayward, but it's not like Hayward isn't deserving. He's earned it this year.

Klay and Draymond are all-stars by proxy.

[kyleuk21]

No idea how Draymond and Klay got in.

I don't deny Drays defense, but Bruce Bowen was an even better defender and he didn't get in. I think Draymond would be a bench player on 85% of NBA teams. It's not that he's not good, but he's not All-Star good.

Klay Thompson? No chance he's more deserving than KAT, Gobert, Lillard, McCollum, or even Eric Bledsoe.

I'm with most going Gobert over Hayward, but it's not like Hayward isn't deserving. He's earned it this year.

Klay and Draymond are all-stars by proxy.

Well said

[yiguiri2002]

I can't believe it. I fully expected Klay to make it because of the structure (2 guards) and no CP3.

But Jordan? Over Conley, Lillard, KAT? Maybe (I have him right below them but in the same group). OVER GOBERT??? What the hell NBA? What is wrong with you?

And please don't use the "Clippers should have an All-Star" excuse. Voters could have easily chose CP3 and it would still count as an All-Star (even if he's replaced). But DeAndre over Gobert is bad. Really bad.

[yiguiri2002]

And people need to stop with the Draymond hate. I don't even like the guy but of that bench group, he's not even the least deserving one. Klay and DeAndre had more reasons to be left out that Draymond.

[GeechQuest]

And people need to stop with the Draymond hate. I don't even like the guy but of that bench group, he's not even the least deserving one. Klay and DeAndre had more reasons to be left out that Draymond.

Agree with Klay being the least deserving, but I think Draymond is right behind him.

If Dray and DeAndre swapped teams I don't think the Warriors are any worse off. I think they would be +/- 2 games. Their overall defense and rebounding would probably go up, and they'd finally have a rim protector.

The Clippers record would go down, especially this year where the Clips have been without CP3 for over 20% of the season and Blake over 45% of the season. DeAndre has kept them afloat. 13 games over .500 and 4th in the West currently. That's not half bad.

[yiguiri2002]

Agree with Klay being the least deserving, but I think Draymond is right behind him.

If Dray and DeAndre swapped teams I don't think the Warriors are any worse off. I think they would be +/- 2 games. Their overall defense and rebounding would probably go up, and they'd finally have a rim protector.

The Clippers record would go down, especially this year where the Clips have been without CP3 for over 20% of the season and Blake over 45% of the season. DeAndre has kept them afloat. 13 games over .500 and 4th in the West currently. That's not half bad.

I think the DeAndre-Draymond dynamic is such that no team will win if they were to be swapped.

DeAndre will give the Warriors better rim protection, yes. But people underestimate how good of a rim protector Draymond really is. And the thing driving the Warriors defense right now (the best in the league) is their ability to switch and force tough shots - something that would actually be harder under DeAndre. On top of that, if they get better in D, how much better will they be? They're already the best, I don't see them improving more than 1 points per 100 possessions.

On offense, losing your best passer is always gonna hurt - specially on a team that have so many ISO players. Steph's playmaking has taken a step back this season and Draymond is filling in that role. Without him, there will probably be a couple of screens and some heavy ISO from KD/Steph/Klay.

The Clippers, however, have a more traditional defense and really need DeAndre's rim protection and rebounding. I think as good as Draymond's defense is, Clippers would be so much worse on D with him instead of DeAndre. On offense, I don't see them changing much - Draymond's passing can be negated a bit by the fact that you already have a great passer in CP3. DeAndre's ability to finish around the rim really helps that team, specially on P&R.

Overall, I'll take Draymond. But more importantly, I'll take Gobert over both this season. It's really sad that he can't make the team when he's been better than at least 3 guys on it.

[GeechQuest]

I think the DeAndre-Draymond dynamic is such that no team will win if they were to be swapped.

DeAndre will give the Warriors better rim protection, yes. But people underestimate how good of a rim protector Draymond really is. And the thing driving the Warriors defense right now (the best in the league) is their ability to switch and force tough shots - something that would actually be harder under DeAndre. On top of that, if they get better in D, how much better will they be? They're already the best, I don't see them improving more than 1 points per 100 possessions.

On offense, losing your best passer is always gonna hurt - specially on a team that have so many ISO players. Steph's playmaking has taken a step back this season and Draymond is filling in that role. Without him, there will probably be a couple of screens and some heavy ISO from KD/Steph/Klay.

The Clippers, however, have a more traditional defense and really need DeAndre's rim protection and rebounding. I think as good as Draymond's defense is, Clippers would be so much worse on D with him instead of DeAndre. On offense, I don't see them changing much - Draymond's passing can be negated a bit by the fact that you already have a great passer in CP3. DeAndre's ability to finish around the rim really helps that team, specially on P&R.

Overall, I'll take Draymond. But more importantly, I'll take Gobert over both this season. It's really sad that he can't make the team when he's been better than at least 3 guys on it.

I know certain metrics have them as the #1 defense in the league but I'm not so sure about that. No team is afraid of Golden States defense. Teams aren't worried about scoring points against them. It's just that if you score 110 the Warriors will score more than you. Many teams still get theirs against the Warriors.

But if we take those metrics the Warriors struggle in 2 areas, offensive rebounds allowed and points in the paint. DeAndre Jordan fixes that.

The Warriors could have arguably won 4 more games this season (Memphis twice, San Antonio, and the first Cleveland game) if they didn't allow so many offensive boards. It will be their downfall in the postseason this year, as it was last year.

Still agree that it's Gobert over those 2 (and Klay shouldn't have been considered). But Gobert and Jordan are close.

Dray is a bench player on most NBA teams, as he was with the Warriors the majority of his career.

[Ottomatic]

I know certain metrics have them as the #1 defense in the league but I'm not so sure about that. No team is afraid of Golden States defense. Teams aren't worried about scoring points against them. It's just that if you score 110 the Warriors will score more than you. Many teams still get theirs against the Warriors.

But if we take those metrics the Warriors struggle in 2 areas, offensive rebounds allowed and points in the paint. DeAndre Jordan fixes that.

The Warriors could have arguably won 4 more games this season (Memphis twice, San Antonio, and the first Cleveland game) if they didn't allow so many offensive boards. It will be their downfall in the postseason this year, as it was last year.

Still agree that it's Gobert over those 2 (and Klay shouldn't have been considered). But Gobert and Jordan are close.

Dray is a bench player on most NBA teams, as he was with the Warriors the majority of his career.

The Warrrios give up points because the play at a breakneck pace. More shots = more points, just ask Melo/Cousins. They give up the least points per 100 possessions out of any team in the NBA.

Every team in the NBA is finding a way to start Draymond Green if he's on their team.

[cnewby]

No idea how Draymond and Klay got in.

I don't deny Drays defense, but Bruce Bowen was an even better defender and he didn't get in. I think Draymond would be a bench player on 85% of NBA teams. It's not that he's not good, but he's not All-Star good.

Klay Thompson? No chance he's more deserving than KAT, Gobert, Lillard, McCollum, or even Eric Bledsoe.

I'm with most going Gobert over Hayward, but it's not like Hayward isn't deserving. He's earned it this year.

Klay and Draymond are all-stars by proxy.

Agree with all of this.

[yiguiri2002]

I know certain metrics have them as the #1 defense in the league but I'm not so sure about that. No team is afraid of Golden States defense. Teams aren't worried about scoring points against them. It's just that if you score 110 the Warriors will score more than you. Many teams still get theirs against the Warriors.

But if we take those metrics the Warriors struggle in 2 areas, offensive rebounds allowed and points in the paint. DeAndre Jordan fixes that.

The Warriors could have arguably won 4 more games this season (Memphis twice, San Antonio, and the first Cleveland game) if they didn't allow so many offensive boards. It will be their downfall in the postseason this year, as it was last year.

Still agree that it's Gobert over those 2 (and Klay shouldn't have been considered). But Gobert and Jordan are close.

Dray is a bench player on most NBA teams, as he was with the Warriors the majority of his career.

I get your point but Draymond Green would not be on the bench on any team in the world. He might not be as efficient but he's definitively a starter, and with the Warriors, an All-Star and borderline All-NBA.

[gomiamigo]

Millsap over Embiid is a helluva stupid joke. Fewer points, same rebounds, way fewer blocks, and not even 1% of Embiid's personality - which matters for an exhibition game, this isn't the playoffs.

No one is watching ASG to see Millsap. Gmafb.

[Ottomatic]

Millsap over Embiid is a helluva stupid joke. Fewer points, same rebounds, way fewer blocks, and not even 1% of Embiid's personality - which matters for an exhibition game, this isn't the playoffs.

No one is watching ASG to see Millsap. Gmafb.

Agree with this. When I step back and really look at the rosters a few things really bother me the most:

1. Milsap. He has not been an all star this year, it's that simple.

2. Klay Thompson. Just why...

3. The omission of Chris Paul. Why? Because he's hurt and can't play? He still deserves to have it on his resume.

[dasiegel]

Millsap over Embiid is a helluva stupid joke. Fewer points, same rebounds, way fewer blocks, and not even 1% of Embiid's personality - which matters for an exhibition game, this isn't the playoffs.

No one is watching ASG to see Millsap. Gmafb.

Towns not getting in is BS

These types of guys are mostly out because team record has to matter. There were guys like Loy Vaught who would average 20 ppg on the Clippers in the 90s. These guys will have plenty of AS appearances but their stats have to mean something or people will snub them. Always been that way.

[bulljh]

.467 / 21.1 / 3.8 / 1.9 / .8 stls
.457 / 21.8 / 5.7 / 3.5 / 1 stl
.480 / 23.5 / 3.5 / 3.7 / 1.1 stls



I get that its not all about stats but it confuses me that the top 2 (klay / hayward) are allstars and the bottom (CJ) isnt. Don't see the argument for either of them over CJ.

It probably came down to team record and defense. Klay is the better defender on the better team with comparable stats. Team record players a bigger part than you guys think it does. For 15 years the Warriors couldn't get a guy to sniff the all star game. I always thought Jamison or Richardson should have been an all star. All I kept hearing it was because their record was crappy.

[the27guy]

Agree with this. When I step back and really look at the rosters a few things really bother me the most:

1. Milsap. He has not been an all star this year, it's that simple.

2. Klay Thompson. Just why...

3. The omission of Chris Paul. Why? Because he's hurt and can't play? He still deserves to have it on his resume.

I'm sure you've thought of this, but millsap to me makes sense because if where Atlanta is in the standings. He was on my list, but mostly because he was the best option from a good Atlanta team.

But yeah, I'd rather see embiid as well. The good news is that if there is an injury replacement, I think we'll see a big in the east. And embiid or maybe porzingis is most likely.

Klay shouldn't be on the team. The west is too good for 4 guys from one of the 15 teams to make it. He's still a good scorer and I know this first half has been about building chemistry for them, and their on track for 70 wins, but 3 guys was enough.

Lastly, Chris Paul. Could not possibly agree more. I almost wonder if he was voted in but then replaced with Deandre by Adam silver. I realize that in the past, the injured player has always been announced as an all star, but it's just too insane for me to think that the majority of 15 coaches didn't vote for Chris Paul, didn't vote for Rudy gobert, and did vote for Deandre. I just don't see any real logic behind it.

[bulljh]

Agree with Klay being the least deserving, but I think Draymond is right behind him.

If Dray and DeAndre swapped teams I don't think the Warriors are any worse off. I think they would be +/- 2 games. Their overall defense and rebounding would probably go up, and they'd finally have a rim protector.

The Clippers record would go down, especially this year where the Clips have been without CP3 for over 20% of the season and Blake over 45% of the season. DeAndre has kept them afloat. 13 games over .500 and 4th in the West currently. That's not half bad.

You clearly don't watch Warrior games if you have such a low opinion of Green.

[bulljh]

I know certain metrics have them as the #1 defense in the league but I'm not so sure about that. No team is afraid of Golden States defense. Teams aren't worried about scoring points against them. It's just that if you score 110 the Warriors will score more than you. Many teams still get theirs against the Warriors.

But if we take those metrics the Warriors struggle in 2 areas, offensive rebounds allowed and points in the paint. DeAndre Jordan fixes that.

The Warriors could have arguably won 4 more games this season (Memphis twice, San Antonio, and the first Cleveland game) if they didn't allow so many offensive boards. It will be their downfall in the postseason this year, as it was last year.

Still agree that it's Gobert over those 2 (and Klay shouldn't have been considered). But Gobert and Jordan are close.

Dray is a bench player on most NBA teams, as he was with the Warriors the majority of his career.

Lol wow. Green was a bench player his rookie year behind Lee. That's it. Oh and I think you're forgetting pace of play in regards to the Warriors defense.

[Ottomatic]

I'm sure you've thought of this, but millsap to me makes sense because if where Atlanta is in the standings. He was on my list, but mostly because he was the best option from a good Atlanta team.

But yeah, I'd rather see embiid as well. The good news is that if there is an injury replacement, I think we'll see a big in the east. And embiid or maybe porzingis is most likely.

Klay shouldn't be on the team. The west is too good for 4 guys from one of the 15 teams to make it. He's still a good scorer and I know this first half has been about building chemistry for them, and their on track for 70 wins, but 3 guys was enough.

Lastly, Chris Paul. Could not possibly agree more. I almost wonder if he was voted in but then replaced with Deandre by Adam silver. I realize that in the past, the injured player has always been announced as an all star, but it's just too insane for me to think that the majority of 15 coaches didn't vote for Chris Paul, didn't vote for Rudy gobert, and did vote for Deandre. I just don't see any real logic behind it.

I understand the Milsap pick. My thing I guess as a Wizards fan is that we have Beal and Porter who have both been better this year IMO, especially Porter by a decent amount. The Hawks themselves have Dwight and Schroeder who are as good or better in some ways.

Maybe Milsap has been really good defensively, I don't watch many Hawks games to know that as I find them quite boring. Then of course you also have Embiid who when he plays is one of the most dominant players in the game. Almost feel like they just gave it to Milsap because he's been there the last couple years. Though I guess he isn't a terrible choice, it also kind of outlines how much stronger the west options were.

But yeah the Chris Paul thing kind of blows my mind.

[the27guy]

I understand the Milsap pick. My thing I guess as a Wizards fan is that we have Beal and Porter who have both been better this year IMO, especially Porter by a decent amount. The Hawks themselves have Dwight and Schroeder who are as good or better in some ways.

Maybe Milsap has been really good defensively, I don't watch many Hawks games to know that as I find them quite boring. Then of course you also have Embiid who when he plays is one of the most dominant players in the game. Almost feel like they just gave it to Milsap because he's been there the last couple years. Though I guess he isn't a terrible choice, it also kind of outlines how much stronger the west options were.

But yeah the Chris Paul thing kind of blows my mind.

Agreed on the other guys on Atlanta. Could have easily been either of them. But you sure couldn't pick Schroeder.... the east already has like 5 PG's.... and between Dwight and Sap..... I mean..... I'm not exactly shocked the coaches didn't take Dwight, if you know what I mean.

then by process of elimination, you get Paul Millsap. And a case can be made that there are about 12 guys in the west that should have made it over him. :)

Still, I think that in the East, it's probably the right pick.

[GeechQuest]

Lol wow. Green was a bench player his rookie year behind Lee. That's it. Oh and I think you're forgetting pace of play in regards to the Warriors defense.

I'm not forgetting the pace, but an offensive juggernaut like the Warriors the pace they play at hurts other teams more than hurting the Warriors defensively.

In a vacuum, the Warriors aren't great at defense. The way the play makes them appear better. They're best defender (Draymond) plays a hybrid Point-Center roll but can't defend real centers.

Most teams have to play to the Warriors strengths (small-ball) and because they do so they're not running their optimal lineups. Most teams best players play fewer minutes against the Warriors (due to the Warriors blowing them out) which helps the Warriors defensive rating. I believe the Warriors play more minutes against the opposing teams bench than any other team in the leage.

The teams like the Grizzlies and Spurs, who refuse to play small-ball and play big have great success against the Warriors. The Warriors can't defend where it's easiest to score from well and give up too many offensive rebounds (more than any team in the league).

Could it be that giving up 11 offensive rebounds a game leads to more points to the opposing team, just as much as the pace they play at?

Regardless, I feel bad for derailing the thread.

The fact that Draymond and Klay are All-Stars over others is fine, it's just not right. When the Warriors trade one of them, or one signs with another team because KD and Steph decide not to take less than max contracts we will see how many All-Star appearances each has.

The biggest snub is still Westbrook not being a starter...

[yiguiri2002]

Agreed on the other guys on Atlanta. Could have easily been either of them. But you sure couldn't pick Schroeder.... the east already has like 5 PG's.... and between Dwight and Sap..... I mean..... I'm not exactly shocked the coaches didn't take Dwight, if you know what I mean.

then by process of elimination, you get Paul Millsap. And a case can be made that there are about 12 guys in the west that should have made it over him. :)

Still, I think that in the East, it's probably the right pick.

Millsap pick makes sense. Atlanta is leading its division and they are 1 game behind the 2nd place in the conference. They had to have an All-Star and it was between Millsap and Dwight.

[jstasyk1121]

I understand the Milsap pick. My thing I guess as a Wizards fan is that we have Beal and Porter who have both been better this year IMO, especially Porter by a decent amount. The Hawks themselves have Dwight and Schroeder who are as good or better in some ways.

Maybe Milsap has been really good defensively, I don't watch many Hawks games to know that as I find them quite boring. Then of course you also have Embiid who when he plays is one of the most dominant players in the game. Almost feel like they just gave it to Milsap because he's been there the last couple years. Though I guess he isn't a terrible choice, it also kind of outlines how much stronger the west options were.

But yeah the Chris Paul thing kind of blows my mind.

i know you are a huge wash/porter fan...but i mean the unbiased look would say that it seems silly to say a guy who is avg 14ppg, 6.5rpg, 1.5apg, 1.5spg is an all star snub on a middle of the pack(albeit much better of late) team in the East....

and i know he has been very efficient and is shooting great %'s....and i dont know if he a defensive stopper but even if he is...so is Millsap...

millsap is 18ppg/8rpg/4ast/1.5stl/1blk and big time defense....not as efficient of a scorer...but being efficient doesnt somehow catapult Porter up as high as some seem to think in my opinion...he is getting better...absolutely...but not an AS level player yet...

[the27guy]

I'm not forgetting the pace, but an offensive juggernaut like the Warriors the pace they play at hurts other teams more than hurting the Warriors defensively.

In a vacuum, the Warriors aren't great at defense. The way the play makes them appear better. They're best defender (Draymond) plays a hybrid Point-Center roll but can't defend real centers.

Most teams have to play to the Warriors strengths (small-ball) and because they do so they're not running their optimal lineups. Most teams best players play fewer minutes against the Warriors (due to the Warriors blowing them out) which helps the Warriors defensive rating. I believe the Warriors play more minutes against the opposing teams bench than any other team in the leage.

The teams like the Grizzlies and Spurs, who refuse to play small-ball and play big have great success against the Warriors. The Warriors can't defend where it's easiest to score from well and give up too many offensive rebounds (more than any team in the league).

Could it be that giving up 11 offensive rebounds a game leads to more points to the opposing team, just as much as the pace they play at?

Regardless, I feel bad for derailing the thread.

The fact that Draymond and Klay are All-Stars over others is fine, it's just not right. When the Warriors trade one of them, or one signs with another team because KD and Steph decide not to take less than max contracts we will see how many All-Star appearances each has.

The biggest snub is still Westbrook not being a starter...

This post is really good. Made me think about some stuff. Still feel like Draymond is an elite defender, but some of your points about why there team rating is what it is are pretty persuasive. Still think he's an all star. Still think he's a big part of that engine. But have to acknowledge that a HUGE part of his success is based on who is around him. Could others do what he's doing? Not many. Not a lot of guys fit his mold. But his success is super contingent on his team.

I guess that's probably not that much different than lots of guys. But the difference is that many all stars, are all stars wherever they play. Not as sure about Draymond.

You switch Draymond with any other big in the west, DeAndre, Gobert, Marc, AD, Cousins.... does the switch make any of those teams better? I don't know for sure, but I don't think so. Intangibles are tough to value though.

[the27guy]

i know you are a huge wash/porter fan...but i mean the unbiased look would say that it seems silly to say a guy who is avg 14ppg, 6.5rpg, 1.5apg, 1.5spg is an all star snub on a middle of the pack(albeit much better of late) team in the East....

and i know he has been very efficient and is shooting great %'s....and i dont know if he a defensive stopper but even if he is...so is Millsap...

millsap is 18ppg/8rpg/4ast/1.5stl/1blk and big time defense....not as efficient of a scorer...but being efficient doesnt somehow catapult Porter up as high as some seem to think in my opinion...he is getting better...absolutely...but not an AS level player yet...

Porter getting lots of national attention for being a guy just on the outside. Defense plus efficiency. Under the radar, especially because his accounting stats aren't great, but definitely turning heads right now. Not as far out as you'd probably guess. Probably 16 or 17 on the EC depth chart.

[Ottomatic]

i know you are a huge wash/porter fan...but i mean the unbiased look would say that it seems silly to say a guy who is avg 14ppg, 6.5rpg, 1.5apg, 1.5spg is an all star snub on a middle of the pack(albeit much better of late) team in the East....

and i know he has been very efficient and is shooting great %'s....and i dont know if he a defensive stopper but even if he is...so is Millsap...

millsap is 18ppg/8rpg/4ast/1.5stl/1blk and big time defense....not as efficient of a scorer...but being efficient doesnt somehow catapult Porter up as high as some seem to think in my opinion...he is getting better...absolutely...but not an AS level player yet...

Porter isn't just very efficient, he's arguably the most efficient shooter on the entire planet. You talk about Green being a below average shooter earlier, Milsap is about the same. Also Porter turns it over .7 times a game. Porter is an above average defender, not a great one.

I didn't have Porter as an all-star this year, but in a weak East I personally would have him over Milsap, and to me it's not close. But I understand not wanting to give the Wiz two all stars. Also I understand seniority matters to these voters and Porter literally never was going to be considered. I never even considered it a remote possibility.

[yiguiri2002]

Porter isn't just very efficient, he's arguably the most efficient shooter on the entire planet. You talk about Green being a below average shooter earlier, Milsap is about the same. Also Porter turns it over .7 times a game. Porter is an above average defender, not a great one.

I didn't have Porter as an all-star this year, but in a weak East I personally would have him over Milsap, and to me it's not close. But I understand not wanting to give the Wiz two all stars. Also I understand seniority matters to these voters and Porter literally never was going to be considered. I never even considered it a remote possibility.

If it makes you feel better, he's making it next year. Along with Gobert and (maybe as a replacement) Zeller.

2013 class is getting its revenge...