CBS Sports Redoes NBA Top 50 List

[Cavaliercards]

On the 20th Anniversary of the List.

CBS Sports Updated the List and in my opinion failed.

50 Greatest NBA Players (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cbs-sports-50-greatest-nba-players-of-all-time-where-do-lebron-curry-rank/)

[asujbl]

Over/Under 7 posts before this becomes a LeBron thread?

I'll take the under. Make me proud Blowout.

[Tarheelsfan2012]

Over/Under 7 posts before this becomes a LeBron thread?

I'll take the under. Make me proud Blowout.

Well it's the biggest problem I have with the list. He shouldn't be #2 currently. Maybe when he is finished but not right now.

[Braswell10]

Well it's the biggest problem I have with the list. He shouldn't be #2 currently. Maybe when he is finished but not right now.

He will be 1st when his career is over.

[ljandkg]

Looks a good list. Especially like the list of inclusions and exclusions.

There is a lot of things they got right about this list.

[AbraCalabro]

Over/Under 7 posts before this becomes a LeBron thread?

I'll take the under. Make me proud Blowout.

Post number 2, it's already a Lebron thread, congrats!!! :)!

[gomiamigo]

Lol number 2. gmafb.

[6celtics33]

There will always be arguments on a list like this. I would've rather seen a top 75 5 years from now. I thought Garnett and Chris Paul were high, curry was high, and Isiah was low.

[bdrr]

There will always be arguments on a list like this. I would've rather seen a top 75 5 years from now. I thought Garnett and Chris Paul were high, curry was high, and Isiah was low.

Yeah. 50 @ 70 years seems silly.

It's also waaaaay too keen on young players. Keep in mind that in 1996-97 when they did their list every current player named had been in the league for at minimum of 10 years EXCEPT Shaq. As in, they insisted on a sizeable portfolio with the sole exception being a guy whose dominance could not be matched.

This list is giving that level of deference to Kawhi and Curry? They're good. But not Shaq good.

[6celtics33]

Yeah very current heavy. Problem with that is it doesn't take into account the inevitable decline that strikes everyone at the end. Garnett has had some terrible last years. I was surprised to see him that high.

[jazz1232dc]

The idea that Chris Paul is ranked higher than Isiah Thomas and John Stockton is beyond ridiculous. Also, I'm a little biased towards Stockton when the debate comes up between him and Isiah but there's no way the gap between Isiah and Stockton is that far apart.

[bballcards4days]

This list is garbage


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[Saspursfan78]

To me, it can be difficult when comparing different players from different eras.

[6celtics33]

They could've found someone from the old list to replace Dwight Howard. That alone ruins the list.

[EMD34]

The idea that Chris Paul is ranked higher than Isiah Thomas and John Stockton is beyond ridiculous. Also, I'm a little biased towards Stockton when the debate comes up between him and Isiah but there's no way the gap between Isiah and Stockton is that far apart.

This is the first list I've seen that's given Chris Paul the credit he deserves (though he should be ahead of Curry). He's statistically the best PG of all time and is an absolutely elite defender.

People place too much emphasis on team success, that's what leads to cupcake moves like KD going to the Warriors.

[EMD34]

They could've found someone from the old list to replace Dwight Howard. That alone ruins the list.

Like him or not (I don't) he is a great player. One of the greatest defenders and rebounders of all time, and in his day he was a real threat on offense.

[myusasets]

garbage.

[6celtics33]

Like him or not (I don't) he is a great player. One of the greatest defenders and rebounders of all time, and in his day he was a real threat on offense.

I'm with you on Chris Paul. He's a monster. Id have him a little lower, maybe 30 but he's great no doubt. Dwight is a cancer period.

[the27guy]

The idea that Chris Paul is ranked higher than Isiah Thomas and John Stockton is beyond ridiculous. Also, I'm a little biased towards Stockton when the debate comes up between him and Isiah but there's no way the gap between Isiah and Stockton is that far apart.

With you.

I think CP3's value as a ball dominant point guard is exceptional. But his superior per game averages aren't enough to overcome the WIDE gap that Isaiah and Stockton have.

That and, Stockton has what, 2x the career assists and steals?

[bdrr]

garbage.

I personally liked where they guy complimented himself for putting Kobe at #10 since "he wasn't that talented."

[tacoma34]

Yikes.

[smalltown]

Jason Kidd, Steve Nash(i'm, no surprise, a big Nash fan too) and Chris Paul should not be above Zeke. I'd argue that Stockton should be lower than him as well, but at least that's an argument.

[Chain]

Bob Pettit at 45. Get out of here.

[tmar214]

NBA & ABA Career Leaders and Records for Win Shares Per 48 Minutes | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career.html)

has CP3s supporting cast just always been that bad? Bad luck in the playoffs maybe.

[asujbl]

Post number 2, it's already a Lebron thread, congrats!!! :)!

I see what I did there :)

[I only pull for]

They could've found someone from the old list to replace Dwight Howard. That alone ruins the list.

I agree I stopped reading it as soon as I saw his name. I wouldn't put Howard in the top 150 let along 50!

[asujbl]

I agree I stopped reading it as soon as I saw his name. I wouldn't put Howard in the top 150 let along 50!

So flat out ridiculous and short sighted.

Howard is a douche. We can all agree.

He's also top 25 in Rebounds, and Blocks, already with plenty of years to go. He's 31.

Top 50? Debate
Top 150? Not being in it is asinine

[I only pull for]

So flat out ridiculous and short sighted.

Howard is a douche. We can all agree.

He's also top 25 in Rebounds, and Blocks, already with plenty of years to go. He's 31.

Top 50? Debate
Top 150? Not being in it is asinine

I could care less about his inflated numbers. The guy played in the eastern conference in the 2000's when there was absolutely no legit big men to face. The guy is an absolute cancer too. I think I could honestly think of 150 centers/forwards I would take over Howard, and I'm not even counting guards.

[asujbl]

I could care less about his inflated numbers. The guy played in the eastern conference in the 2000's when there was absolutely no legit big men to face. The guy is an absolute cancer too.

Cool

Feel free to list 149 better players.

Rhetorical.

[JasonM32]

Some thoughts...

Abdul-Jabbar has perhaps the best resume of any player and the way he is underrated is criminal. He dominated statistically, won awards, and his teams just won and won and won. At every level. High School, College, Pro. All-Time NBA scoring leader, 6 MVPS, 6 rings, played at a high level up to and maybe past age 40. 19 NBA all-star games. Not to mention the most dominant signature shot in NBA history, the virtually unstoppable Skyhook. The league wasn't as popular in the 70s and early 80s and not as many people were able to experience his greatness, so...

I have no idea where to rank Wilt.

Lebron isn't near #2 all time yet. Maybe someday.

[asujbl]

Some thoughts...

Abdul-Jabbar has perhaps the best resume of any player and the way he is underrated is criminal. He dominated statistically, won awards, and his teams just won and won and won. At every level. High School, College, Pro. All-Time NBA scoring leader, 6 MVPS, 6 rings, played at a high level up to and maybe past age 40. 19 NBA all-star games. Not to mention the most dominant signature shot in NBA history, the virtually unstoppable Skyhook. The league wasn't as popular in the 70s and early 80s and not as many people were able to experience his greatness, so...

I have no idea where to rank Wilt.

Lebron isn't near #2 all time yet. Maybe someday.

Isn't near is a little aggressive

Look at him across the board. Not many comparables.

[IamRalpho]

Larry 8 is dumb, Cousy is too low, Petit is too low

My top 10 right now

10. Big O
9. Duncan
8. Shaq
7. Wilt
6. Kareem
5. Larry
4. Magic
3. Lebron
2. Russell, fight me
1. MJ

Some days I have Magic ahead of Lebron but thats it.

[ljandkg]

I could care less about his inflated numbers. The guy played in the eastern conference in the 2000's when there was absolutely no legit big men to face. The guy is an absolute cancer too. I think I could honestly think of 150 centers/forwards I would take over Howard, and I'm not even counting guards.


Lets go then!

.........

[6celtics33]

There will always be a line you have to draw and weigh longevity vs peak and stats vs winning and accomplishments. People's lists tend to show where they favor one thing over the other. Not that one way is better than the other but criteria should be clear.

[I only pull for]

Lets go then!

.........

Seriously..
Hell let's start with current players.
A. Davis
M. Gasol
P. Gasol
B. Griffin
D. Green
L. Aldridge
D. Nowitzki
H. Whiteside
M. Gortat
B. Lopez
K. Love
That was just players off the top of my head that play today, and I'm sure there is more that are playing now I would take over lazy ass Howard. If we extend this over the past 60 years of basketball it wouldn't be hard to leave howard out of the top 150.

[AdamG007]

Lebron at 2 is a bit of a stretch, but he is certainly among the greats. I would have Kareem or Wilt there personally. Give me Bird and Kobe over Duncan. Isiah Thomas way too low. Chris Paul way too high. Havlicek and Pettit should be a little higher up. Dwight Howard belongs in the top 100, but not the top 50. I think Westbrook should be in there somewhere. All in all, not the worst list I've ever seen.

[6celtics33]

Dwight<Kemp, Webber, Cowens, Mourning, Reed, Thurmond, Gilmore to name a few

He could be #1 all time in blocks and rebounds and I'd trade him without thinking about it for Tyson Chandler. Stats don't tell the whole story.

[I only pull for]

howard couldn't carry ben wallace or rasheed wallace's jock strap

[6celtics33]

Rodman>Howard
Parish > Howard

[I only pull for]

I forgot about D. Cousins too, he has his own problems but give me that head case all day long over Howard.

[rookies]

Dwight at that spot! Nobody thinks of him as a top 50 player. Also I have no idea why chris paul is so high above DWADE!!! Dwade is not 25 should be 18ish. Lebron should be 3 wilt should be 7 Duncan should be a spot or 2 or 3 up. Id put duncan above Kareem. Shaq over Russell and wilt. Then my favorite one is curry at 19. LOL No finals mvps only championship is to a injured cavs team no finals mvp never shows up in finals. Played 3 years of college not lots of all stars nothing no idea why he is in that spot. Lastly ray allen should be a bit higher.

1. MJ
2. Magic
3. Lebron
4. Shaq
5. duncan
6. Kareem
7. Bird
8 Russell
9. Kobe
10. wilt

I dont mind kobe a spot up or 2 up as well

[volblorx8634]

I agree, Dwight does not belong on this list. I also don't think Kawhi belongs quite yet, at this rate he could be very high on this list. I don't have him there yet, but I'm not mad at the fact he's there. Isiah is too low, I think Durant, Chris Paul, and Steph are too high. I don't mind the top 10, though I would put LeBron in the 4-6 range.

[ljandkg]

Seriously..
Hell let's start with current players.
A. Davis
M. Gasol
P. Gasol
B. Griffin
D. Green
L. Aldridge
D. Nowitzki
H. Whiteside
M. Gortat
B. Lopez
K. Love
That was just players off the top of my head that play today, and I'm sure there is more that are playing now I would take over lazy ass Howard. If we extend this over the past 60 years of basketball it wouldn't be hard to leave howard out of the top 150.

Not gonna lie, I'm disappointed.....:D

Nah to be honest when I saw the list his name stood out as odd. Mourning for example had a better career.

[asujbl]

Seriously..
Hell let's start with current players.
A. Davis
M. Gasol
P. Gasol
B. Griffin
D. Green
L. Aldridge
D. Nowitzki
H. Whiteside
M. Gortat
B. Lopez
K. Love
That was just players off the top of my head that play today, and I'm sure there is more that are playing now I would take over lazy ass Howard. If we extend this over the past 60 years of basketball it wouldn't be hard to leave howard out of the top 150.

What PBM are you?

Only a PBM can type Whiteside, Gortat, and Lopez without posting a "gotcha" response

[401cards]

Seriously..
Hell let's start with current players.
A. Davis
M. Gasol
P. Gasol
B. Griffin
D. Green
L. Aldridge
D. Nowitzki
H. Whiteside
M. Gortat
B. Lopez
K. Love
That was just players off the top of my head that play today, and I'm sure there is more that are playing now I would take over lazy ass Howard. If we extend this over the past 60 years of basketball it wouldn't be hard to leave howard out of the top 150.

I'm no Dwight fan, but he dragged a team with Jameer Nelson, Courtney Lee, Hedo, and Rashad Lewis to the Finals. Other than Dirk, none of the players on the list above have demonstrated the ability to facilitate team success while being the focal point (and perhaps only above-average player) on a team. Love came close in that 40-42 season, and Dirk went supernova and carried the Mavericks in 2011. Other than that, the other guys can't hold a candle to prime Dwight, imo.

I'm a Celtics fan, and I think Kareem is the best player of all time. He was an absolute staple of championship teams for 30 years who played both sides of the ball and whose signature skills could transcend eras.

LeBron is getting up there, no doubt. He's probably top-5 based on stats and awards. However, I am of the opinion that he is a roid ranger who will be the Alex Reodriguez of basketball in a few years.

[kdailey4315]

Tim Duncan should not be above Bird.

[bblaue1]

Chris Paul deserves to be on this list. In the high 30s. Not ahead of Zeke, Kidd, or Stockton. Sorry, but can't stack his stats against pre-handcheck rule PGs. These guys put up strong numbers while being beat up the whole game. Paul Pierce is not a top 50 player. No need to add anymore, because he just isn't. Third fiddle on one title team is not a top 50 player. Top 20 Curry? His last 3-4 years have been great, but Shawn Kemp, Bernard King, Artis Gilmore, and Tracy McGrady strung together 4-5 amazing years and don't sniff a top 50 consideration. Like the Honorable mention having James Harden as in the next 10, right next to Rodman and Worthy. Just cause the author has only seen (or not seen and only read about) Harden shoot 25 free throws a game does not mean he could carry Worthy or Rodman lunch. Wade is a tough one because he had good years and titles, but really would put him next to Allen and not that far above him. Kobe is a top 10 guy. Only good thing about this list is Walton is not on it. Howard above Reed, Thurmond, and Parrish is not acceptable. His big years in the East he faced what huge foes? Fat and old Shaq? undersized Ben Wallace? Remember how terrible the East was for years. They had a run of several years with only 5-6 teams above .500. So yeah a team with Howard could sneak into the Finals, but then he came west and got exposed. Not top 50.


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[Cavaliercards]

Kemp over Howard
Mourning over Howard
Rodman over Howard
Dikember over Howard
Webber over Howard

[tjforce]

Man, People really forget that Dwight Howard is a 3 time Defensive Player of the year.

Only 2 other players have won it more than twice, Mutombo and Ben Wallace. Dwight was a far superior offensive player than either of those two.

For a good while, he was one of the most dominate forces in the NBA, as evidenced by a 4 year span in which he was top 5 in MVP voting.

He was an All-NBA first team 5 times.

Does this make him one of the top 50 player all-time? Maybe not. But it really seems like he's getting sold short by a lot of people here.

[Steveefranchise]

If I wasn't reading this right before I went to bed - I'd do some sort of era analysis/breakdown. I agree with posts thus far. Seems way too current friendly.

[kingmogul]

Ray Allen needs to be higher

[6celtics33]

Nobody has really said anything negative about Lebron so his fanboys are out defending Dwight, weird.

[bkcardcollector]

I disregarded this list when I saw Cousy at 24 or so. Bill Sharman, Sam Jones and Heinsohn off the list, Bill Russell at 6. Please remind me how many rings these guys have... Cousy at 24. Nobody was even putting him in top ten. smh

edit: Sorry Cousy at 36 :eek: and right after him.... George Mikan :doh: and right before them with all due respect Allen Iverson :)! 0 rings.

[rhigh2390]

I disregarded this list when I saw Cousy at 24 or so. Bill Sharman, Sam Jones and Heinsohn off the list, Bill Russell at 6. Please remind me how many rings these guys have... Cousy at 24. Nobody was even putting him in top ten. smh

edit: Sorry Cousy at 36 :eek: and right after him.... George Mikan :doh: and right before them with all due respect Allen Iverson :)! 0 rings.

Ya, I think a 21 year old did this list lol

[codered]

They could've found someone from the old list to replace Dwight Howard. That alone ruins the list.

^^^This^^^ what the hell is howard doing on this list

[bdrr]

^^^This^^^ what the hell is howard doing on this list

Let's just reflect the the esteemed expert author chose Howard over Alonzo Mourning and Dikembe Mutombo, never mind the guys from the old list.

[hofcollector2]

Walton or Worthy should have been on the list more than Howard. For those that want to refute Walton, he brought Portland Oregons only championship, Portland Oregon! had it not been for bad knees, hits stats would have been amazing. The year he brought Portland the title (he won finals MVP also) He avg 19pt 13rb 5asst 2.5 blks 1stl a game. Look at that roster he took and won the NBA title with, lol. All I'm saying is he should be ahead of Howard.

[Pathora]

I felt like putting Kawhi and Dwight on the list early was simple click bait to make people read the article.

Chris Paul is WAY too high for a guy with no team success, even Melo has gotten his team to a conference finals.

[the mesiah]

Don't highly agree with a lot of selections and placement on the list but good to see Wilt still at the near top of the hill in a top 3 list,.As much for the likes glad to see Russell out of a top 5 spot , again just my opinion.
Dislikes , ..having Bird,Kobe,Isiah lower than what I thought and Steph,Durant,kawhi, Dwight,Cp3 higher than what I thought.

[jstasyk1121]

I feel people are hating on Dwight just cuz he is known as a bad teammate and unlikable player.

But the guy has had a damn good career to this point. like really really good!!!

he is in his 13th season

career avg of 18pts/13reb/2blk/1stl on almost 60% shooting(tons of dunks i know) but is 3rd all time in FG%
(in no way comparing the two...but just for reference Duncans line is like 19/11/2.2/0.7...just showing that to show that Howards line is pretty damn good...obviously doesnt have the leadership/success like TD...but stat wise he is right there...just saying)

8x all nba
5x all def
8x all star
3x DPOY-2nd most ever...and was 3 in a row

5x rebound leader
2x block leader

WS all time top 50
def WS all time top 25

DEF rating top 20 all time

Career PER is 36th all time


im no big howard fan either...but the guy has had a hell of a career really and i think its crazy to think he belongs nowhere near the top 50...


i just wish some people also would stop weighing team success as like 80% of their formula...it obviously matters but geez...saying some guys suck cuz they have 0 rings and old timers with 5 rings should be 20 spots higher is crazy...its a list for players...not a list for who were on the best winning teams...

[6celtics33]

I feel people are hating on Dwight just cuz he is known as a bad teammate and unlikable player.

But the guy has had a damn good career to this point. like really really good!!!

he is in his 13th season

career avg of 18pts/13reb/2blk/1stl on almost 60% shooting(tons of dunks i know) but is 3rd all time in FG%
(in no way comparing the two...but just for reference Duncans line is like 19/11/2.2/0.7...just showing that to show that Howards line is pretty damn good...obviously doesnt have the leadership/success like TD...but stat wise he is right there...just saying)

8x all nba
5x all def
8x all star
3x DPOY-2nd most ever...and was 3 in a row

5x rebound leader
2x block leader

WS all time top 50
def WS all time top 25

DEF rating top 20 all time

Career PER is 36th all time


im no big howard fan either...but the guy has had a hell of a career really and i think its crazy to think he belongs nowhere near the top 50...


i just wish some people also would stop weighing team success as like 80% of their formula...it obviously matters but geez...saying some guys suck cuz they have 0 rings and old timers with 5 rings should be 20 spots higher is crazy...its a list for players...not a list for who were on the best winning teams...

Makes you wonder why the Lakers couldn't cut bait fast enough and Houston is much better off without him. Those stats look great.

[asujbl]

Kemp over Howard
Mourning over Howard
Rodman over Howard
Dikember over Howard
Webber over Howard

You lost early at Kemp. At least save the ridiculousness for last.

[6celtics33]

My formula isn't 80% wins but it is a team game so it does matter. I do wonder how much the popularity of Michael Jordan during his playing career and since then and how everyone wanted to be like Mike and how hypercompetitive he was/is tipped the scale too far in the winning direction. It was all he cared about so I wonder if by osmosis it became all we cared about as his fans growing up. It probably had a big effect on me. I wonder how long it will take us to balance out. I'm not sure of the answer. For any older members like Rats weigh in about how that viewpoint has changed over time. Give us some perspective. I do know Bill Russell was picked as the best player ever at the 35th anniversary of the league or something like that in 1980 so it had to figure into that. Bill Russell once explained after losing an award to an inferior player that awards are based on other's "opinions" but winning/losing is all in your control. He went on to do pretty well at it I think.

[asujbl]

I feel people are hating on Dwight just cuz he is known as a bad teammate and unlikable player.

But the guy has had a damn good career to this point. like really really good!!!

he is in his 13th season

career avg of 18pts/13reb/2blk/1stl on almost 60% shooting(tons of dunks i know) but is 3rd all time in FG%
(in no way comparing the two...but just for reference Duncans line is like 19/11/2.2/0.7...just showing that to show that Howards line is pretty damn good...obviously doesnt have the leadership/success like TD...but stat wise he is right there...just saying)

8x all nba
5x all def
8x all star
3x DPOY-2nd most ever...and was 3 in a row

5x rebound leader
2x block leader

WS all time top 50
def WS all time top 25

DEF rating top 20 all time

Career PER is 36th all time


im no big howard fan either...but the guy has had a hell of a career really and i think its crazy to think he belongs nowhere near the top 50...


i just wish some people also would stop weighing team success as like 80% of their formula...it obviously matters but geez...saying some guys suck cuz they have 0 rings and old timers with 5 rings should be 20 spots higher is crazy...its a list for players...not a list for who were on the best winning teams...

Terrell Owens

People are dumb

[bkcardcollector]

My formula isn't 80% wins but it is a team game so it does matter. I do wonder how much the popularity of Michael Jordan during his playing career and since then and how everyone wanted to be like Mike and how hypercompetitive he was/is tipped the scale too far in the winning direction. It was all he cared about so I wonder if by osmosis it became all we cared about as his fans growing up. It probably had a big effect on me. I wonder how long it will take us to balance out. I'm not sure of the answer. For any older members like Rats weigh in about how that viewpoint has changed over time. Give us some perspective. I do know Bill Russell was picked as the best player ever at the 35th anniversary of the league or something like that in 1980 so it had to figure into that. Bill Russell once explained after losing an award to an inferior player that awards are based on other's "opinions" but winning/losing is all in your control. He went on to do pretty well at it I think.

amen. I guess in the end it is peoples opinion of what great is. Some people think great is all about the stats (smh) some people think it is about winning championships, being a team player and coming through in the clutch when it really matters :)!

[patientgambler]

Howard may be underrated because of how much people don't like him, but listing him in the top 50 of greatest players of all time is still pretty egregious. Advanced stats show someone like Tracy McGrady was a much better player than Howard was, and that's just one player off the top of my head. There may well be 20 more that were better players than Howard.

Paul Pierce at 38 is arguably just as bad.