2017 Basketball HOF Inductees announced

[hazenuts]

Chris Webber, Tracy McGrady headline 2017 Basketball Hall of Fame finalists | FOX Sports (http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/hall-of-fame-finalists-basketball-naismith-chris-webber-tracy-mcgrady-tim-hardaway-021817)

Former NBA players who are finalists for class of 2017 HOF -

Tim Hardaway
Tracy McGrady
Sidney Moncrief
Chris Webber

Too bad for Big Ben Wallace who isn't even a finalist, I hope he gets in 2018

** update, they are not inducted just yet, they finalists for consideration

[NickM]

These are finalists. They might not be inducted.

[hazenuts]

These are finalists. They might not be inducted.

oh thanks sorry for misreading the headline

[Wolves4Life]

Webber will hopefully get in. He made the Kings relevant.

[bkcardcollector]

Tough year for the hall. I feel like these are all marginal. 0 championships among them.

[bdrr]

Tough year for the hall. I feel like these are all marginal. 0 championships among them.

Crappy argument when you consider players like Ewing, Barkley, Malone, and Stockton never won one, and countless other guys only won as a bit player at the ends of their careers. Winning a title isn't easy, especially given the NBA is much more dynasty prone than other sports.

McGrady is truly one of the 75 in 75 guys, and Webber is easily one of the top 20 PFs ever.

[bkcardcollector]

Ya, I don't know for me the championships is what it is all about. To that regard all the guys you mentioned I hold in a lesser regard as well. Malone and Stockton a little higher as they were very close many times and record holders. If they had won a few championships no doubt they would be held in a higher regard not only by me but by every one.

All these guys were close in only 1 or 2 years.

I have said it before, championships are the most important thing and if you feel that is a crappy argument, well sir, you are entitled to your crappy opinion ;)

[gomiamigo]

Moncrief and Webber, I guess?

[drobfan8]

If you don't think Webber is a HOFer than you don't know basketball.

The championships thing is such a weak call. Webber was 20 and 10 for a long stretch and lead teams to wins. Webber was right there with TD and KG for years and even got a first team all NBA in 2001.

I think he's a lock unless the powers that be have something personal against him.

T. Hard is probably in also. I think McGrady is borderline.

[bdrr]

If you don't think Webber is a HOFer than you don't know basketball.

The championships thing is such a weak call. Webber was 20 and 10 for a long stretch and lead teams to wins. Webber was right there with TD and KG for years and even got a first team all NBA in 2001.

I think he's a lock unless the powers that be have something personal against him.

T. Hard is probably in also. I think McGrady is borderline.


I'd take McGrady over Wade, Allen, or Reggie. Prime T-Mac was one of the most dominant players to ever step on the court. Only peak Kobe/Jordan are really ahead of him at the 2Guard. I just don't see how he could be considered borderline. He was unbelievable.

[Hornet21]

I'd take McGrady over Wade, Allen, or Reggie. Prime T-Mac was one of the most dominant players to ever step on the court. Only peak Kobe/Jordan are really ahead of him at the 2Guard. I just don't see how he could be considered borderline. He was unbelievable.

I agree. Even kobe openly says that prime T-Mac was the hardest player he ever had to guard

[Doublexthebeast]

If you don't think Webber is a HOFer than you don't know basketball.

The championships thing is such a weak call. Webber was 20 and 10 for a long stretch and lead teams to wins. Webber was right there with TD and KG for years and even got a first team all NBA in 2001.

I think he's a lock unless the powers that be have something personal against him.

T. Hard is probably in also. I think McGrady is borderline.

Also, keep in mind that it's basketball hall of fame.....not NBA. So, I agree with you that Webber is easily a HOF player, especially when you add in how big he was at Michigan.

[andy88c]

All four of these guys deserve to be in the HOF.

[bkcardcollector]

If you don't think Webber is a HOFer than you don't know basketball.

The championships thing is such a weak call. Webber was 20 and 10 for a long stretch and lead teams to wins. Webber was right there with TD and KG for years and even got a first team all NBA in 2001.

I think he's a lock unless the powers that be have something personal against him.

T. Hard is probably in also. I think McGrady is borderline.

I don't see how I have been called out by this championship call being weak or crappy. Is it not the only thing that matters??? These guys will probably all get in but not on my vote. To me they are not a part of history if they werent involved in the big games. Congrats on getting a bunch of meaningless stats tho. Well done. If T.Mac wanted to get in the Hall he should have stuck with Toronto and tried to win some ships not be a cry baby that he was not the big dog where he could ball hog and score 50 a night. Hope he had fun in Orlando. Shoulda went to college. smh.

[exoticprince]

It's crazy when one realises MJ is the reason all the guys you mentioned never tasted a title. Insane what one man can do to many

Crappy argument when you consider players like Ewing, Barkley, Malone, and Stockton never won one, and countless other guys only won as a bit player at the ends of their careers. Winning a title isn't easy, especially given the NBA is much more dynasty prone than other sports.

McGrady is truly one of the 75 in 75 guys, and Webber is easily one of the top 20 PFs ever.

[drobfan8]

I'd take McGrady over Wade, Allen, or Reggie. Prime T-Mac was one of the most dominant players to ever step on the court. Only peak Kobe/Jordan are really ahead of him at the 2Guard. I just don't see how he could be considered borderline. He was unbelievable.

I think you'll find most people have him borderline. I hope he gets in, he was phenomenal, but I'd expect SOME type of playoff success from a HOFer.

[drobfan8]

I don't see how I have been called out by this championship call being weak or crappy. Is it not the only thing that matters??? These guys will probably all get in but not on my vote. To me they are not a part of history if they werent involved in the big games. Congrats on getting a bunch of meaningless stats tho. Well done. If T.Mac wanted to get in the Hall he should have stuck with Toronto and tried to win some ships not be a cry baby that he was not the big dog where he could ball hog and score 50 a night. Hope he had fun in Orlando. Shoulda went to college. smh.

I'm more talking about Webber.

Gary Payton never won a chip with Seattle, but he was a far better player than he was with the Heat when he did win one.

There's actually not a whole lot of Chips out there to win considering the greats are the ones loading up on multiples. So Webber teams up with a great, plays more of a role and wins 3 rings or even 1 and that'll make him more legit :rolleyes:

Webber didn't exactly have just 1 good season. He built an incredible career where he was even right there with TD and KG for some time. His Kings also got robbed vs LA, which was the style at the time with the dodgy reffing.

Webber should be a lock, unless like I said, someone in there doesn't like some of the negative things he's done over the years.

The rings argument is extremely weak. I mean Bosh is a lock for the HOF, but I'd take Webber over him any day.

Also, there is a process, it's a pretty simple one and I think it works. They don't let scrubs in. Some think it should be only the elite, but there's not a guy in there that deserves to be kicked out.

[goodole13]

Championships are important...At the team level. You have to keep in mind, the HOF is an individual award based on individual accolades. Of course, championships help, but at the end of the day, championships are a team award. Individuals shouldn't be punished for not winning a championship. Again, you get into the HOF for being a great player, not for winning championships.

[NickM]

I'm more talking about Webber.

Gary Payton never won a chip with Seattle, but he was a far better player than he was with the Heat when he did win one.

There's actually not a whole lot of Chips out there to win considering the greats are the ones loading up on multiples. So Webber teams up with a great, plays more of a role and wins 3 rings or even 1 and that'll make him more legit :rolleyes:

Webber didn't exactly have just 1 good season. He built an incredible career where he was even right there with TD and KG for some time. His Kings also got robbed vs LA, which was the style at the time with the dodgy reffing.

Webber should be a lock, unless like I said, someone in there doesn't like some of the negative things he's done over the years.

The rings argument is extremely weak. I mean Bosh is a lock for the HOF, but I'd take Webber over him any day.

Also, there is a process, it's a pretty simple one and I think it works. They don't let scrubs in. Some think it should be only the elite, but there's not a guy in there that deserves to be kicked out.

I technically wouldn't kick K.C. Jones out, because I'd have him in as a coach, but no way does he deserve to be in as a player.

[drobfan8]

I technically wouldn't kick K.C. Jones out, because I'd have him in as a coach, but no way does he deserve to be in as a player.

See that's the thing, he's in on the rules they give. I don't think there's a problem with the process.

Others always mention Richmond. But he was a helluva player that did everything in the League, probably didn't have enough playoff success but was an elite player.

It's not like there's 25% of the guys in there don't deserve it.

I think Webber and T. Hard are probably locks.

T Mac may have to wait. But we'll see.

[NickM]

See that's the thing, he's in on the rules they give. I don't think there's a problem with the process.


The rule is: You get enough of the vote, they put you in.

And there are absolutely problems with the process. That's why they keep creating new categories of inductees (e.g., ABA).

[bkcardcollector]

Championships are important...At the team level. You have to keep in mind, the HOF is an individual award based on individual accolades. Of course, championships help, but at the end of the day, championships are a team award. Individuals shouldn't be punished for not winning a championship. Again, you get into the HOF for being a great player, not for winning championships.

Here is where we differ and many others. You make a point but a team is a group of individuals who come together and know what it takes to win. They experience greatness and are on that higher level of satisfaction and breathe that hall of fame air. Not sure if these players that have regrets from there careers in the NBA (like this years finalists) should be able to ir will be able to breathe in that same prestigous air.

[drobfan8]

The rule is: You get enough of the vote, they put you in.

And there are absolutely problems with the process. That's why they keep creating new categories of inductees (e.g., ABA).

I disagree, my knowledge of the 80s and earlier is not the best so I can't comment much on that era, but 90s and onwards they've seemed to have gotten it spot on so far so the process seems to work.

Some want the HOF to be the truly greatest players, which I understand, but that's not how it is.

I value a championship greatly, being a Spurs fan and all, but I'm not gonna tell you Horry and Bowen are better than Webber because they were fantastic glue guys on teams.

[bkcardcollector]

I disagree, my knowledge of the 80s and earlier is not the best so I can't comment much on that era, but 90s and onwards they've seemed to have gotten it spot on so far so the process seems to work.

Some want the HOF to be the truly greatest players, which I understand, but that's not how it is.

I value a championship greatly, being a Spurs fan and all, but I'm not gonna tell you Horry and Bowen are better than Webber because they were fantastic glue guys on teams.

^this, they need to be both winners and great.

[I only pull for]

Mcgrady never led a team past the 1st round. I don't see how that is HOF status.

[NickM]

I disagree, my knowledge of the 80s and earlier is not the best so I can't comment much on that era, but 90s and onwards they've seemed to have gotten it spot on so far so the process seems to work.

Some want the HOF to be the truly greatest players, which I understand, but that's not how it is.

I value a championship greatly, being a Spurs fan and all, but I'm not gonna tell you Horry and Bowen are better than Webber because they were fantastic glue guys on teams.

The process works so well Phil Knight made the Hall of Fame for selling shoes.

IMO Webber and McGrady should both be in, Moncrief probably as well, and I'd vote no on Hardaway (he's a poor man's Terry Porter or Kevin Johnson).

And the new entrant who's not a finalist (Ben Wallace) - compare his career to Webber, and he comes out ahead! Ben Wallace Stats | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wallabe01.html) [Look at Win Shares.]

[NickM]

Mcgrady never led a team past the 1st round. I don't see how that is HOF status.

From Grantland:

Here’s a complete list of every teammate who started a playoff game with Tracy McGrady during his aforementioned 2001-08 peak …

Darrell Armstrong (three years), Bo Outlaw, Andrew DeClercq (two years), Mike Miller (two years), Pat Garrity (two years), Horace Grant (36 at the time), Monty Williams, Jacque Vaughn, Gordan Giricek, Drew Gooden, Yao Ming (two years), David Wesley, Bob Sura, Ryan Bowen, Scott Padgett, Shane Battier (two years), Rafer Alston (two years), Chuck Hayes, Luis Scola, Dikembe Mutombo (somewhere between age 40 and 52 at the time), and Bobby Jackson.

The Unfortunate Tale of T-Mac « (http://grantland.com/features/the-unfortunate-tale-t-mac/)

[I only pull for]

From Grantland:

Here’s a complete list of every teammate who started a playoff game with Tracy McGrady during his aforementioned 2001-08 peak …

Darrell Armstrong (three years), Bo Outlaw, Andrew DeClercq (two years), Mike Miller (two years), Pat Garrity (two years), Horace Grant (36 at the time), Monty Williams, Jacque Vaughn, Gordan Giricek, Drew Gooden, Yao Ming (two years), David Wesley, Bob Sura, Ryan Bowen, Scott Padgett, Shane Battier (two years), Rafer Alston (two years), Chuck Hayes, Luis Scola, Dikembe Mutombo (somewhere between age 40 and 52 at the time), and Bobby Jackson.

The Unfortunate Tale of T-Mac « (http://grantland.com/features/the-unfortunate-tale-t-mac/)

Every team in the eastern conference had a roster like that back then, some were much worse. Ron Artest led the same teammates Mcgrady failed with to the 2nd round one year in Houston. Mcgrady was a good player but he is not HOF material.

[NickM]

Every team in the eastern conference had a roster like that back then, some were much worse. Ron Artest led the same teammates Mcgrady failed with to the 2nd round one year in Houston. Mcgrady was a good player but he is not HOF material.

Artest's team had Aaron Brooks at PG rather than Rafer Alston and Bobby Jackson, and beat a Blazers team whose 3rd-5th leading scorers in the playoffs were Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, and Rudy Fernandez, and whose primary center was Joel Przybilla (that seems like a bad idea against Yao Ming).

[drobfan8]

The process works so well Phil Knight made the Hall of Fame for selling shoes.

IMO Webber and McGrady should both be in, Moncrief probably as well, and I'd vote no on Hardaway (he's a poor man's Terry Porter or Kevin Johnson).

And the new entrant who's not a finalist (Ben Wallace) - compare his career to Webber, and he comes out ahead! Ben Wallace Stats | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wallabe01.html) [Look at Win Shares.]

I could care less about Phil Knight making it. People don't realize that the game is successful not just because of the NBA players.

Would you prefer an NBA HOF? Then that would leave a bunch of ABA players out, great coaches etc.

Also, Tim Hardaway was a helluva player. 5 time All Star as well as 5 or 6 All NBA teams if I remember.

He had a pretty damned good career.

[DuncanHOF]

I'm really hoping Moncrief gets in. Long overdue. He had a 5 year stretch in which he was not only one of the best all-around offensive 2 guards in the league, but was also an excellent defender to boot.

[rman112]

I was just looking at McGrady's stats. I didn't realize he isn't even at 20 ppg career. Those last few years killed him.

Is 8 legitimate years enough?