So....John Wall is a top 3 Points Guard.

[Braswell10]

Yes it is true he is at the very least a top 3 Point guard.

Only other two who may be better are Westbrook and Harden (if you classify him as a pg). Both of whom have 10 more touches per game.

Best defender at his position? Check
Top 2 in steals per game? Check
Top 2 in assists per game? Check
Leads all point guards in blocks per game? Check

Here are his season Stats:

22.5 ppg
4.5 RPG
10.9 APG
2 spg
.6 bpg
+/- 4.8
Offrtg 110
Drtg 105

He deserves more credit than he gets. Should be in the MVP conversation in my opinion.


I am in a debating mood, so let the discussion begin.

[daeve]

Absolutely. I just bumped the MVP talk thread where I mentioned I think the Wizards take over the #2 seed, and Wall should absolutely be getting some MVP consideration.

[Braswell10]

Absolutely. I just bumped the MVP talk thread where I mentioned I think the Wizards take over the #2 seed, and Wall should absolutely be getting some MVP consideration.

Nobody ever talks about him or the wizards. So it seems that the team and Wall are always over looked.

[asujbl]

Consideration? Absolutely... I'd say he's cracking the Top 5 at this point.

But he's Isaiah Thomas from the other thread. The chances of him winning it? 0.00%

Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve more hype though. He's been great.

[IamRalpho]

Curry, Westbrook, Harden are my top 3. Even tho I always see Harden as a combo.

The next tier is Wall, IT, Dame, Conley, Lowry and CP

Usually CP is locked at 4, then a mix but this year I think you could say Wall and IT are 4/5

Crazy loaded tho

[daeve]

Consideration? Absolutely... I'd say he's cracking the Top 5 at this point.

But he's Isaiah Thomas from the other thread. The chances of him winning it? 0.00%

Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve more hype though. He's been great.

If they keep winning and end up as the 2-seed I could see some votes thrown his way. I agree it is difficult to see anyone in the East winning it if they aren't named LeBron though.

[asujbl]

Curry, Westbrook, Harden are my top 3. Even tho I always see Harden as a combo.

The next tier is Wall, IT, Dame, Conley, Lowry and CP

Usually CP is locked at 4, then a mix but this year I think you could say Wall and IT are 4/5

Crazy loaded tho

Kyrie as well - he'd be in that 2nd tier somewhere.

[yiguiri2002]

This season? Definitively.

Overall? He has a tough time cracking the Top 5:

Westbrook
Harden
Curry
CP3
Lowry
IT4

I'll have them ahead of him. And that's not even counting guys like Lillard or Irving. I think the beauty is that that group is very tight and you can flip almost anyone on the Top 7.

[daeve]

everyone still sleeping on Kawhi is hilarious

[Braswell10]

How can IT be ahead? Yes he averages 7 more ppg, but he is a huge liability on defense and wall leads him in pretty much every other category.

Same with Curry. He is a much better shooter, but he is only averaging 2 more ppg than wall. And like IT, wall is ahead of both of them in almost every other statistical catagory.

I just don't see Lowry being better than wall. Cp3 has always been regarded is the best defender among point guards, but I think wall has passed him regarding defense and passing.

I think people really over look defense.

[asujbl]

everyone still sleeping on Kawhi is hilarious

Who is sleeping on Kawhi? No one actually thinks Wall is going to win MVP. Kawhi will certainly get votes. He's probably #4 right now if you ask me... which would be ahead of Wall

How can IT be ahead? Yes he averages 7 more ppg, but he is a huge liability on defense and wall leads him in pretty much every other category.

Same with Curry. He is a much better shooter, but he is only averaging 2 more ppg than wall. And like IT, wall is ahead of both of them in almost every other statistical catagory.

I think people really over look defense.

He said "overall" - he said Wall was better this year - I don't necessarily agree with his overall rankings but just for clarity.

[Braswell10]

Who is sleeping on Kawhi? No one actually thinks Wall is going to win MVP. Kawhi will certainly get votes. He's probably #4 right now if you ask me... which would be ahead of Wall



He said "overall" - he said Wall was better this year - I don't necessarily agree with his overall rankings but just for clarity.

I believe wall is the/one of the best all around guards.

[asujbl]

I believe wall is the/one of the best all around guards.

I think we all do.

I'm just clearing up your reply. The other poster said Wall is definitely better this year. He said Thomas was better overall.

I personally disagree but that's really a different thread if we're going to talk about this year vs. prior and/or future years.

[chris_ac]

everyone still sleeping on Kawhi is hilarious

This is a PG thread Lol... But yes, great player.

[Braswell10]

I think we all do.

I'm just clearing up your reply. The other poster said Wall is definitely better this year. He said Thomas was better overall.

I personally disagree but that's really a different thread if we're going to talk about this year vs. prior and/or future years.

Oh OK. I am just talking about this year. The past means nothing because all players progress. Wall is having a career year in every category.

[Braswell10]

everyone still sleeping on Kawhi is hilarious

I am not saying that I think Wall will win. I just think he deserves more attention.

[daeve]

Who is sleeping on Kawhi? No one actually thinks Wall is going to win MVP. Kawhi will certainly get votes. He's probably #4 right now if you ask me... which would be ahead of Wall


oh my bad, didn't realize everyone was just listing PGs in this thread. carry on

[Oldschool42]

I'm a Celtics fan and I would rather have Wall than IT4. IT4 is a great scorer during the regular season, playoffs are way way different. Wall is by far the fastest PG in the league, he just explodes towards the hoop. Since he got healthily and in shape he's playing like we always wanted him to play.
Westbrook and Harden are on a different planet. Kyrie is very close, could go either way. CP 3 was the best for awhile but he's not having a year like Wall. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Wizards in the conference finals. LeBron still wins the east.

[Ottomatic]

Westbrook, Harden, Paul, Curry top 4 in that order to me right now. Pretty clear. Curry just had a historically bad three point shooting slump and he's stll one of the league leaders in TS%. Team record speaks for itself, past two years speak for themselves.

Wall, Thomas and Lowry all could be 5th. Lowry and Thomas were clearly ahead of him early, but they've cooled a little. Irving next right after them.

[TBarn291]

Westbrook, Harden, Paul, Curry top 4 in that order to me right now. Pretty clear. Curry just had a historically bad three point shooting slump and he's stll one of the league leaders in TS%. Team record speaks for itself, past two years speak for themselves.

Wall, Thomas and Lowry all could be 5th. Lowry and Thomas were clearly ahead of him early, but they've cooled a little. Irving next right after them.

Personally I think Irving is just as good as any of them if not better, he just has to share with Lebron and Love lol. I'd take him over Curry, Thomas and Lowry for sure. Wall has a more developed overall game than most of the PGs discussed in this thread though aside from Westbrook and Harden.

[Braswell10]

Westbrook, Harden, Paul, Curry top 4 in that order to me right now. Pretty clear. Curry just had a historically bad three point shooting slump and he's stll one of the league leaders in TS%. Team record speaks for itself, past two years speak for themselves.

Wall, Thomas and Lowry all could be 5th. Lowry and Thomas were clearly ahead of him early, but they've cooled a little. Irving next right after them.

Sorry, I can see the arguement for Paul (Even though many people put him up there just because of his name), but I just don't think curry is better than Wall. Yes, he is a pure scorer, but he also only averages 2 more points than Wall per game, and I would say Wall is a pass first guard.

[IamRalpho]

Kyrie as well - he'd be in that 2nd tier somewhere.

Knew I was missing someone.

But yes absolutely.

[IamRalpho]

Seriously, Steph Curry won the MVP THE PAST 2 YEARS and is having a "down" year but John Wall is better than him?

I usually am okay with differing opinions, but I just dont know how you can justify that AT ALL. Of course Curry's record breaking and insane numbers slipped...they added a top 3 player in the NBA!

Wall is awesome, but he didnt just win 2 MVP's

[Braswell10]

Seriously, Steph Curry won the MVP THE PAST 2 YEARS and is having a "down" year but John Wall is better than him?

I usually am okay with differing opinions, but I just dont know how you can justify that AT ALL. Of course Curry's record breaking and insane numbers slipped...they added a top 3 player in the NBA!

Wall is awesome, but he didnt just win 2 MVP's

Yes, I believe wall is the better player. People today LOVE offense and that's what curry gives you, but what else? And if him and wall switched places the warriors would be doing just as good. Curry got those MVPs for being on that stacked team and for having a 73-9 record.

[Oldschool42]

I'm lucky to have three teenage boys that love BB, my youngest loves stats and John Wall. They eat, sleep, and breath stats especially my youngest. The general consensus in our house is this: Curry, Westbrook, Harden, Irving and IT4 are shooters first passers, second. Up until this year my youngest would tell me CP3 is the best PURE point guard with Wall second. This year Wall has taken the leap and surpasses CP3 (doesn't help that he got hurt).
I have watched the Wizards/Celtics games: the Wizards will beat the C's if they meet in the playoffs. The C's need another shooter, without one they are done. IT4 is a 5'9" dynamo but IMO he is pissed about his contract and his lack of respect due to his size so he scores and scores waiting for his payday. He ain't no modern day AI either. He was pissed that his 20pt streak was snapped (how about you show up and make some shots?). Atlanta beat him up and did most teams after the break. I think he is way too selfish to be considered a top point guard, a top shooting guard yes, but not a true PG.
I love IT4, he has brought the C's back to national attention but he wil get his ass kicked in the playoffs. Ainge and Stevens have done a brilliant job of getting A effort out of C+/B- talent.
The Wizards look like they have grown up and Wall has been a huge part of it.

[Harper]

I think wall is #5-6 PG right now. Like lowery, Thomas, lillard... He needs to have some playoff success before I bump him into top 3 territory. I agree that curry and Irving have been less impressive this year but they have proven themselves on the big stage and have had to share the ball with true (no offense) MVP candidates.

Also, if Derrick rose was here he'd nominate himself for top 3

[IamRalpho]

Yes, I believe wall is the better player. People today LOVE offense and that's what curry gives you, but what else? And if him and wall switched places the warriors would be doing just as good. Curry got those MVPs for being on that stacked team and for having a 73-9 record.

Wall isnt mr defense either...so what else does he give you? so if you go just by offense, wouldnt you go with the guy who provides the better offense....and ya know just won 2 MVPs?

Him and Wall switching places doesnt work because he isnt the shooter Steph is. He isnt anywhere close to the shooter like Steph.

[Braswell10]

Wall isnt mr defense either...so what else does he give you? so if you go just by offense, wouldnt you go with the guy who provides the better offense....and ya know just won 2 MVPs?

Him and Wall switching places doesnt work because he isnt the shooter Steph is. He isnt anywhere close to the shooter like Steph.

Wall is the best defensive point guard. Definitely better than steph, and dont let Steph's steal numbers fool you. Yes, steph is a great offensive player, but when he doesnt shoot well, he hurts you.

Wall helps the entire offense with his passing ability. When I watch steph play, sometimes I shake my head at the bad shots he takes. Like I said before the fans like flashy play on offense. Nobody cares about the true stats and defense. That's just how the NBA is nowadays. Wall is constantly playing at 100% every game.

Ill stand by my statement. Curry can thank his team for being the MVP 2 times in a row. It's all because he can make the flashy 3 point shot, and the fact that he plays on a large market team.

[8collector34]

May I troll for a moment?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tYaz63Tf5cIaBxZclLviX8M4xvv3yiM6iVYUYf9ISlREWaqw81uqvIyLQaRp1GSglchrKl6WIDqrUzFdbwmOdLU7igEdEVm8gfHOOE5RrpZwtiS2VI4hHgIodWxQGcNjL1fZEpSTJ-Lzm0JiFGkAlFuLf3diUDgLZ3jsA40h76p91Sk54quXdtxkGRt_UgP3qLwKOvF5zHa352LpEQbXsG2Ttk0YJ9uSuCymYtOyNxkSUCu8MSM6hj7kIG0Lb4lFy42ukNxWWb9gu_roUg5FJ1cUwJ0fTp7wNl8VuBx7nkcfmLTuI73cU_et-fCdzXU0IAM8ppHAuBsF7AouQU2J-PMFrZ0RybM0xiCRIcwcLHuNcBvtAzpjBA1SUXjwvMXopA5bA4xX_VLyikFIA2Tjj09I9vlnu-OlcEkc9JejP9IxmXVfimbDvIesOd6i4UbHSLO0rcjnMssP5kwWJ7aSs-yzfqn1UoTn5dJlcvM3MN19rOzEzAPkPy7rhkyREjLhb9AVb_kTWiPtWakhpd377JnFxwWovaLBfLei-TsIyyC9VGV0KjsHogDivtQ-rW2Is7Zj-j36CNcMq_hefyHVp6PDjqJ-S07CwJ6xpNhieLMwt3HW1mEn=w661-h927-no

[jstasyk1121]

PPG among PGs: 8th
FG% among PGs: 15th
3pt% among PGs: 28th!! out of 29 qualified PGs...ahead of only m.smart
FT% among PGs: 19th
shots attempted among PGs: 5th

so he shoots alot...and does it poorly...
stop acting like he is this all around beast...the guy is outright bad as a shooter!! like really bad...he is barely over 30% on 3s...

when you add in the whole league...he is ahead of Smart and A.Gordon on 3pt%....thats it...he is 131st out of 133 players that shoot enough threes to count...

and thank god you pointed out he leads all PGs in blocks!!!! with his so impressive 0.58 per game...oh and he doesnt lead them all...J.Holiday is at 0.59/gm...woohoo...

and he is 2nd in the league in AST/gm...but also is 3rd in TO/gm and his AST/TO ratio is 2.5:1 which is good for 20th among PGs...aka- below average

so no...he probably shouldnt be getting more MVP hype...and what does that even mean? you want more people to put him in 7th? ok...lol...cuz thats about as high as he should be...

[Braswell10]

PPG among PGs: 8th
FG% among PGs: 15th
3pt% among PGs: 28th!! out of 29 qualified PGs...ahead of only m.smart
FT% among PGs: 19th
shots attempted among PGs: 5th

so he shoots alot...and does it poorly...
stop acting like he is this all around beast...the guy is outright bad as a shooter!! like really bad...he is barely over 30% on 3s...

when you add in the whole league...he is ahead of Smart and A.Gordon on 3pt%....thats it...he is 131st out of 133 players that shoot enough threes to count...

and thank god you pointed out he leads all PGs in blocks!!!! with his so impressive 0.58 per game...oh and he doesnt lead them all...J.Holiday is at 0.59/gm...woohoo...

and he is 2nd in the league in AST/gm...but also is 3rd in TO/gm and his AST/TO ratio is 2.5:1 which is good for 20th among PGs...aka- below average

so no...he probably shouldnt be getting more MVP hype...and what does that even mean? you want more people to put him in 7th? ok...lol...cuz thats about as high as he should be...

Huh....Never knew 3pt shooting decided if you were good or not. And yes his turnovers are high, but Westbrook, who is many peoples mvp, is averaging 6 T/O's a game. Still one of the best passers.

And nobody is talking about the wizards, which is walls team, even though they are 3rd in the east.

[jstasyk1121]

Huh....Never knew 3pt shooting decided if you were good or not. And yes his turnovers are high, but Westbrook, who is many peoples mvp, is averaging 6 T/O's a game. Still one of the best passers.

And nobody is talking about the wizards, which is walls team, even though they are 3rd in the east.

but averaging 0.60 blocks per game is a big deciding point?? ok got it.

[Braswell10]

but averaging 0.60 blocks per game is a big deciding point?? ok got it.

Yes. And back to turnovers, the top two players in TO's are Lebron and Westbrook. Of course, the more you pass the more you are gonna turn it over. Both of those players are MVP caliber.

[ninjacookies]

I can't put him in the top 3. Not this year. Especially not when Harden and Westbrook are chasing statistical history.

To me he's on the bubble at around 5th or 6th...possibly 7th.

Don't get me wrong, his game has definitely taken a nice step this year and he's a lot better at closing games and knocking down that step-back 15 footer when the team needs it.

Great court vision, but he's always had that. Definitely one of the funnest PG's to actually watch.

[Braswell10]

I can't put him in the top 3. Not this year. Especially not when Harden and Westbrook are chasing statistical history.

To me he's on the bubble at around 5th or 6th...possibly 7th.

Don't get me wrong, his game has definitely taken a nice step this year and he's a lot better at closing games and knocking down that step-back 15 footer when the team needs it.

Great court vision, but he's always had that. Definitely one of the funnest PG's to actually watch.

I get Harden, and Westbrook, but 3rd place is fair game.

[ninjacookies]

I get Harden, and Westbrook, but 3rd place is fair game.

I can't knock you on that.

Just hard for me to put him above CP3 and Kyrie (who's silently having a career year) at this point in time.

[Braswell10]

I can't knock you on that.

Just hard for me to put him above CP3 and Kyrie (who's silently having a career year) at this point in time.

I understand. They are just more "hyped up" than wall. I just think Wall has played better than both this year.

[ninjacookies]

I understand. They are just more "hyped up" than wall. I just think Wall has played better than both this year.

They're all pretty comparable. Rie and Wall have around the same PER, while CP3 is readily ahead of both.

Wall's shooting efficiency is still his biggest flaw, but he's managed to mask that a bit this year by making big shots late in games...which were the same ones he'd miss a year or two ago.

CP3 is still arguably the best 'complete' pg in the league in terms of skillset, but his playing style and age just don't translate to gaudy offensive numbers.

[jstasyk1121]

Yes. And back to turnovers, the top two players in TO's are Lebron and Westbrook. Of course, the more you pass the more you are gonna turn it over. Both of those players are MVP caliber.

So getting half a block a game is more important than shooting the ball?? Makes sense...

And yea his turnovers go up the more u pass...doesn't take away that he is near bottom among PGs in ast/to ratio...

Listen u listed some random stuff stating how good he is among point guards...I listed things that are clearly more important than some of the stuff u listed...but u just don't want to acknowledge that John wall is pretty poor at actually shooting a basketball...and is among the absolute worst in basketball at 3pt shooting which is becoming more and more important in the league nowadays...but yea...thank God he gets 3 blocks every 5 games...a true game changer there!!!!

[Braswell10]

So getting half a block a game is more important than shooting the ball?? Makes sense...

And yea his turnovers go up the more u pass...doesn't take away that he is near bottom among PGs in ast/to ratio...

Listen u listed some random stuff stating how good he is among point guards...I listed things that are clearly more important than some of the stuff u listed...but u just don't want to acknowledge that John wall is pretty poor at actually shooting a basketball...and is among the absolute worst in basketball at 3pt shooting which is becoming more and more important in the league nowadays...but yea...thank God he gets 3 blocks every 5 games...a true game changer there!!!!

3 blocks already tonight. And I never said it was more important than shooting. Wall is shooting 44% on the year. Not too bad. And I'll say it again. I couldnt care less about his 3pt shooting. its not like he takes an absurd amount per game. 3pt shooting means nothing to me if you can score and help your team in other ways. The stuff you pointed out is not as big as you are acting like. Did Wall do something to personally harm you? Sounds like you dont like him.

[rdleifriaf]

John Wall's career offensive estimate of points produced by team per 100
possessions: 104.

John Wall's career defensive estimate of points scored by opponent per 100 possessions: 105.

No thanks.

Chris Paul's career numbers are 123/104 (and 126/105 this season). CP3 is the best. He's #3 all-time in win shares per 48 as well (behind MJ and DRob)...

[Braswell10]

John Wall's career offensive estimate of points produced by team per 100
possessions: 104.

John Wall's career defensive estimate of points scored by opponent per 100 possessions: 105.

No thanks.

Chris Paul's career numbers are 123/104 (and 126/105 this season). CP3 is the best. He's #3 all-time in win shares per 48 as well (behind MJ and DRob)...

I am not talking about career, I am talking about this year, which is current. And that shows just how good wall is on defense. His and Cp3's career Defense per 100 possesions is identical.

The defense and offensive ratings can be heavily influenced by a players teammates. Wall does not have good defense players around him, unlike CP3.

[rdleifriaf]

I am not talking about career, I am talking about this year, which is current. And that shows just how good wall is on defense. His and Cp3's career Defense per 100 possesions is identical.

John Wall's numbers this year are 109/107... which is worse than CP3, Lowry, Harden, Westbrook, Curry, IT4, and Kyrie (though not Lilliard, who blows on defense)... Eric Bledsoe, George Hill, and a bunch of other middling PGs are having better seasons that than that... since 109/107 is barely better than average.

[Braswell10]

John Wall's numbers this year are 109/107...

The defense and offensive ratings can be heavily influenced by a players teammates. Wall does not have good defense players around him, unlike CP3.

[rdleifriaf]

The defense and offensive ratings can be heavily influenced by a players teammates. Wall does not have good defense players around him, unlike CP3.

Actually, from what the stats I've looked at, those numbers don't change much when a player changes teams......

[DuncanHOF]

Did Wall do something to personally harm you? Sounds like you dont like him.

Judging by your signature and constant disregard for relevant statistics, I would say it sounds like you like him a little too much.

Wall is having a fantastic season, but he is not a top 3 PG just yet. Westbrook and Harden are no-brainers, we can all agree. After that, although I can't stand either of them on a personal level, I would give a clear nod to CP3 and Curry over Wall as well. I'm not saying that because they receive more hype as you said earlier; they are simply better players.

Curry is a transcendent offensive talent who more than makes up for his (not good, but not terrible) defense with his shooting ability (despite his last few games) and driving-dishing skills that makes the defense constantly collapse, giving his teammates open 3s.

Paul, as much as I can't stand him, is the lifeblood of the Clippers. He can take over the game on both ends of the court and in a myriad of ways. If the Clips and Wizards traded their PGs straight up for one another, the Wizards are most likely in the same position they are now, if not the 2 seed, and the Clippers would probably be hovering at about the .500 mark, as a comfortable 7th seed and 1st round fodder for the Spurs.

Kyrie Irving, since his amazing performance in last year's Finals, looks to be on another level as well. A close call, but I would take him over Wall and feel confident about doing so. I think he can take over a game in a way that Wall cannot.

Wall can battle it out with IT4 for the 6-7 spots. That is not a knock on Wall. He has made a leap this year. Another season or two can change things completely. For now, he's just outside the top 5 looking in.

[Braswell10]

Judging by your signature and constant disregard for relevant statistics, I would say it sounds like you like him a little too much.

Wall is having a fantastic season, but he is not a top 3 PG just yet. Westbrook and Harden are no-brainers, we can all agree. After that, although I can't stand either of them on a personal level, I would give a clear nod to CP3 and Curry over Wall as well. I'm not saying that because they receive more hype as you said earlier; they are simply better players.

Curry is a transcendent offensive talent who more than makes up for his (not good, but not terrible) defense with his shooting ability (despite his last few games) and driving-dishing skills that makes the defense constantly collapse, giving his teammates open 3s.

Paul, as much as I can't stand him, is the lifeblood of the Clippers. He can take over the game on both ends of the court and in a myriad of ways. If the Clips and Wizards traded their PGs straight up for one another, the Wizards are most likely in the same position they are now, if not the 2 seed, and the Clippers would probably be hovering at about the .500 mark, as a comfortable 7th seed and 1st round fodder for the Spurs.

Kyrie Irving, since his amazing performance in last year's Finals, looks to be on another level as well. A close call, but I would take him over Wall and feel confident about doing so. I think he can take over a game in a way that Wall cannot.

Wall can battle it out with IT4 for the 6-7 spots. That is not a knock on Wall. He has made a leap this year. Another season or two can change things completely. For now, he's just outside the top 5 looking in.

Of course I may be a little biased. But all fans are inclined to bias when it comes to a certain team. I have not "disregarded any relevant stats. I simply stated a counterargument.

There are stats, and then there is also watching the player play.

[DuncanHOF]

Of course I may be a little biased. But all fans are inclined to bias when it comes to a certain team. I have not "disregarded any relevant stats. I simply stated a counterargument.

There are stats, and then there is also watching the player play.

I certainly agree with that - the "eye test." Some players are definitely better than what the box score indicates. However, for the top 5-7 PGs, I think that same metric can be applied to each of them. There is something that box scores just do not account for with most players, both positively and negatively, regardless of position. Each of the 7 PGs I named contribute more to their teams than statistical output. Chris Paul, for example, averages 17 and 10 (very good, but not STUPENDOUS stats), but is a year-in, year-out top 5 MVP candidate who is a bonafide regular season winner because of his leadership and other non-statistical measurables.

[bdrr]

Of course I may be a little biased. But all fans are inclined to bias when it comes to a certain team. I have not "disregarded any relevant stats. I simply stated a counterargument.

There are stats, and then there is also watching the player play.


I have never been on record as a Wall fan. I've always thought he was overrated. On TV, even, he never looked that impressive.

Went to first Wiz game at Verizon center last weekend. Holy crap. At half time they had to sweep the broken ankles off the floor. His passing vision is phenomenal. I could watch the same plays on TV and come away with the impression they were good, but not great. In person . . . he is SPECIAL.

That said . . . he doesn't carry a team. He's not a Top 3 PG. Top 6, sure. I don't think he can carry a team. I think he's capable of being a leader on a title contender with the right pieces around him. But he can't do what Steph, Lillard, Kyrie, or CP3 do. They might not have the same moves, or the same passing vision (aside from Paul), but they more than make up for it with their scoring ability.

[IamRalpho]

Since we are only factoring in this year and totally being biased.

IT> Steph Curry and John Wall. Hold on let me pull some random stats and observations out

Feels good to breath again

[seabass97166]

I went to see John Wall in person last night. I'm in Phoenix this week for Spring Training and we went to the Wizards game last night and going to Lakers tomorrow.

Me and my son were just in awe of John Wall. This guy took over the game big time down the stretch. Tyler Ulis was playing some great defense on him but he still delivered. He did an awesome 360 spin move for a basket, hammered home a dunk on another play, made some sweet dimes passes on others, and swished 2 free throws in the final seconds to put the Wiz up by 4. He is everything you want in a player. I would put him in the top 3 for sure. Glad we went to the game 131-127 and very entertaining. He has tremendous vision and can make passes at the last second. And he has some major swag, talking some trash (not maliciously) which you gotta love.

[Braswell10]

I went to see John Wall in person last night. I'm in Phoenix this week for Spring Training and we went to the Wizards game last night and going to Lakers tomorrow.

Me and my son were just in awe of John Wall. This guy took over the game big time down the stretch. Tyler Ulis was playing some great defense on him but he still delivered. He did an awesome 360 spin move for a basket, hammered home a dunk on another play, made some sweet dimes passes on others, and swished 2 free throws in the final seconds to put the Wiz up by 4. He is everything you want in a player. I would put him in the top 3 for sure. Glad we went to the game 131-127 and very entertaining. He has tremendous vision and can make passes at the last second. And he has some major swag, talking some trash (not maliciously) which you gotta love.

I feel the same way when I watch him in person. It's much more amazing then just watching on tv.

[IamRalpho]

John Wall is not efficient as a point guard. I still cant believe, he finally plays up to his ability for 4 months and now we are forgetting who Steph Curry is and forgetting all of Walls flaws?

John Wall is fantastic, but he isnt as good as Westbrook, Harden, Curry or Paul. I dont care what people say. It blows my mind. He is not as efficient as the other point guards in the league and that is a MAJOR ISSUE when hes handling the ball 75% of the time.


He is literally having his best year ever...and we have this habit of ignoring what Curry did before this year and same with Wall. Wall is having a career high in points, FT, steals, FGA and now %.

Even on a "down" year Curry blows him away in every category except assists which has never been Currys game.

Curry has more points per game, higher FT%, FG%, 3P%, Curry is shooting 40% from 3 and that is still higher than anywhere in Walls career...and this is Stephs worst year by far there. Wall is playing more minutes too per game!

I just cant believe anyone thinks Wall is better than the reigning 2 time MVP even tho the team stats and the real life stats show otherwise.

Blows my mind.

Also, Wall vs IT

Wall: 22.7 PT, 2 steals, 4.6 boards, 10.9 assists, .444%/.311%.81%
IT: 29.5, 1 steal, 2.7 boards, 6.2 assists, .460%/.383%/91%

So going by stats....Thomas is better too. 7 inches difference too

[teamterrellowen]

A reason Wall's fg % is only at 44% is because he can't draw a foul. He drives to the basket numerous times throughout the game with plenty of contact, a lot of times obvious fouls with no whistle.

[Braswell10]

John Wall is not efficient as a point guard. I still cant believe, he finally plays up to his ability for 4 months and now we are forgetting who Steph Curry is and forgetting all of Walls flaws?

John Wall is fantastic, but he isnt as good as Westbrook, Harden, Curry or Paul. I dont care what people say. It blows my mind. He is not as efficient as the other point guards in the league and that is a MAJOR ISSUE when hes handling the ball 75% of the time.


He is literally having his best year ever...and we have this habit of ignoring what Curry did before this year and same with Wall. Wall is having a career high in points, FT, steals, FGA and now %.

Even on a "down" year Curry blows him away in every category except assists which has never been Currys game.

Curry has more points per game, higher FT%, FG%, 3P%, Curry is shooting 40% from 3 and that is still higher than anywhere in Walls career...and this is Stephs worst year by far there. Wall is playing more minutes too per game!

I just cant believe anyone thinks Wall is better than the reigning 2 time MVP even tho the team stats and the real life stats show otherwise.

Blows my mind.

Also, Wall vs IT

Wall: 22.7 PT, 2 steals, 4.6 boards, 10.9 assists, .444%/.311%.81%
IT: 29.5, 1 steal, 2.7 boards, 6.2 assists, .460%/.383%/91%

So going by stats....Thomas is better too. 7 inches difference too

Based on those stats, Wall is better than IT. John Wall is the leager of his team (But they are stepping up to help him) while Curry has been complemented by his teammates. Take curry away and the Warriors are still title contenders. Also, curry has other people on has team who are good passers to get him open. Nobody on the wizards is a good passer.

I know you are a celtics fan, so get ready to lose that #2 seed.

[Braswell10]

John Wall is not efficient as a point guard. I still cant believe, he finally plays up to his ability for 4 months and now we are forgetting who Steph Curry is and forgetting all of Walls flaws?

John Wall is fantastic, but he isnt as good as Westbrook, Harden, Curry or Paul. I dont care what people say. It blows my mind. He is not as efficient as the other point guards in the league and that is a MAJOR ISSUE when hes handling the ball 75% of the time.


He is literally having his best year ever...and we have this habit of ignoring what Curry did before this year and same with Wall. Wall is having a career high in points, FT, steals, FGA and now %.

Even on a "down" year Curry blows him away in every category except assists which has never been Currys game.

Curry has more points per game, higher FT%, FG%, 3P%, Curry is shooting 40% from 3 and that is still higher than anywhere in Walls career...and this is Stephs worst year by far there. Wall is playing more minutes too per game!

I just cant believe anyone thinks Wall is better than the reigning 2 time MVP even tho the team stats and the real life stats show otherwise.

Blows my mind.

Also, Wall vs IT

Wall: 22.7 PT, 2 steals, 4.6 boards, 10.9 assists, .444%/.311%.81%
IT: 29.5, 1 steal, 2.7 boards, 6.2 assists, .460%/.383%/91%

So going by stats....Thomas is better too. 7 inches difference too

A reason Wall's fg % is only at 44% is because he can't draw a foul. He drives to the basket numerous times throughout the game with plenty of contact, a lot of times obvious fouls with no whistle.

This too. Wall doesn't get the "superstar" treatment like many others do.

[Andy5]

This too. Wall doesn't get the "superstar" treatment like many others do.

I would have to agree with this. Just watch their recent game against the Magic.

[seabass97166]

I just asked my son this question...he is a 15 year old punk know it all and opinionated

Who would you rather have:

John Wall or Isaiah Thomas

John Wall, Thomas is too small

John Wall or Westbrook
John Wall , Westbrook is like a cancer to his team

John Wall or Curry

Scratches head....smiles....then says
John Wall, sometimes Curry is just non existent to his team

His 18 yr old cousin comes in and chimes in: Wall over Westbrook?? You're trippin!!
I'll take Wall over Curry though

John Wall or James Harden

Mmmmmm, that's really tough
I'll take Harden.

[Braswell10]

I just asked my son this question...he is a 15 year old punk know it all and opinionated

Who would you rather have:

John Wall or Isaiah Thomas

John Wall, Thomas is too small

John Wall or Westbrook
John Wall , Westbrook is like a cancer to his team

John Wall or Curry

Scratches head....smiles....then says
John Wall, sometimes Curry is just non existent to his team

His 18 yr old cousin comes in and chimes in: Wall over Westbrook?? You're trippin!!
I'll take Wall over Curry though

John Wall or James Harden

Mmmmmm, that's really tough
I'll take Harden.

:)! Your son is very smart!

Everyone has their opinion on who is better, sometimes people just get too fired up over the other persons opinion though.

[hofcollector2]

Wall is the epitome of the eye test. Wall can win games for his team in different ways, while curry just chucks it up to win games, wall can actually play one on one defense and not hide behind his team. If wall can ever find his 3pt shot, watch out. On the flip side I kinda hope he doesn't as he is a much more exciting player dishing and going to the hoop.

[Braswell10]

Finally got 20 assists! So many games where he got 19.

[mrchipz]

I LOVE john wall on and off the court. but he is not top 3 pg to me.
i would put him in top 5 though behind westbrook, isaiah thomas, harden and curry.

[teamterrellowen]

Nice start for Wall. 18 points and 5 assist in the first qtr. 8-8 shooting too. Hopefully this keeps up.

[daeve]

he had a great block on lebron tonight

[thecomebacker]

Never liked Wall, but got to admit he is playing great ball last couple of years and seemed to have matured a lot. Wiz looking strong.

[sOuLspin]

How can IT be ahead? Yes he averages 7 more ppg, but he is a huge liability on defense and wall leads him in pretty much every other category.

Same with Curry. He is a much better shooter, but he is only averaging 2 more ppg than wall. And like IT, wall is ahead of both of them in almost every other statistical catagory.

I just don't see Lowry being better than wall. Cp3 has always been regarded is the best defender among point guards, but I think wall has passed him regarding defense and passing.

I think people really over look defense.


It is not just on stats! 4th quarter action makes the differenz

[drobfan8]

I think Wall deserves his top 3 status.

I do wonder what would happen if you traded Steph for Wall? As their games are of today.

[IamRalpho]

I think Wall deserves his top 3 status.

I do wonder what would happen if you traded Steph for Wall? As their games are of today.

Then the Wizards would have the better player, with better stats and a 2 time MVP.

Boggles my mind how everyone, or most people think Curry has gotten worse this year and totally discount the addition of one of the 3 best players in basketball.

[TBarn291]

Then the Wizards would have the better player, with better stats and a 2 time MVP.

Boggles my mind how everyone, or most people think Curry has gotten worse this year and totally discount the addition of one of the 3 best players in basketball.

It's kinda hard to think he hasn't gotten worse after "the best shooter ever" has had so many terrible shooting nights. I know I'm in the minority but I always thought Klay was the best on their team until Durant. I'd take Wall over Curry along with about 3-4 other guards.

[IamRalpho]

It's kinda hard to think he hasn't gotten worse after "the best shooter ever" has had so many terrible shooting nights. I know I'm in the minority but I always thought Klay was the best on their team until Durant. I'd take Wall over Curry along with about 3-4 other guards.

I just think its the offense. Its not all run through Steph like the previous years.

I don't think all of a sudden hes "fallen off", but even if hes fallen off he has better stats than Wall.

Wall is 44.8/31.3/80.7 23.1
Curry is 46/40/92 PER 23.9

I mean you cant ignore the facts, aside from assists Curry on a "down" year is superior to Wall in EVERY category and has been much more consistent than Wall has.