Some guy's top 100 player ranking

[tjforce]

Thought I would share this:

NBA Position Power Rankings, End of Regular Season Edition: Ranking Top 100 | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2703608-nba-position-power-rankings-end-of-regular-season-edition-ranking-top-100)

Bleacher Report's top 100 players.

Some of these rankings are fair, others are laughable. Makes for an interesting read.

[JustinVerlander07]

Hard to disagree with the ranking of Draymond IMO.

[tjforce]

Hard to disagree with the ranking of Draymond IMO.

I personally wouldn't put him there, but I don't think it's that egregious.

Ranking Wiggins and the 4th best player on his team, on the other hand.........

[rookies]

Booker at 74!? Towns at 20 is funny. Wiggins shouldnt be 71 should be top 50 at least. Boogie ahead of wall? AD at 14? Makes no sense. Even the roberson ahead of eric gordon smaller guy stuff? Just a bad overall list.

[cnewby]

Draymond ahead of George, Davis and Cousins is laughable.

[exoticprince]

Some of the rankings are complete nonsense however top 5 are about right except I'm putting Kawhi at # 2. He is hands down better overall than Westbrook and Harden

[jj2]

Draymond ahead of George, Davis and Cousins is laughable.

I agree in some ways but I can't really argue with them putting the best defensive player in the league in the top 10.

[volblorx8634]

I immediately closed the article when I saw the guy had Cousins listed as a Sacramento King. He's even pictured with the Pelicans.

I would put Kawhi 2, Durant 3, Curry 4, Harden 5, and Westbrook 6. Seems like too much of this season's stats weigh into the equation, which hurt Curry and Durant. Davis needs to be higher than 14, probably top 10, and I don't like Jokic at 16. He had a few great months of play, but to be borderline top 15 in the league you have to do it for longer, in my opinion.

Regarding the Draymond debate, I think he belongs in that range. Maybe Davis should go ahead of him, but it's hard to argue more than that. He's so criminally underrated because he's not the best scorer, but he's a top 3 defender in the league and extremely important to the Warrior offense even if he doesn't score the most points within it.

[Ottomatic]

Draymond ahead of George, Davis and Cousins is laughable.

Why? Because he doesn't score as much?

The fixation with volume shooting by fans is insane to me.

[asujbl]

It's almost as if Blowout doesn't take the time to read... shocking I say. Shocking.

This is basically his list of MVP voting for 2016-17. That's it. Nothing more. He specifically says that long term upside is irrelevant. So why is Draymond ahead of George, Davis, and Cousins? Because he was better this year.

I'll quote from the beginning

"The goal is to identify those we'd most want to build around based on results from the current campaign, so long-term upside and prowess in the distant past are irrelevant. "

My favorite word... wait for it... wait for it...

Context.

[cnewby]

Why? Because he doesn't score as much?

The fixation with volume shooting by fans is insane to me.

No, because hes a product of the system.

[Ottomatic]

No, because hes a product of the system.

Generally a pretty bad idea to give other people credit for what an individual player does. For the most part they are responsible for their own production.

Even if you think everything he does on offense is a product of the system, his defense and rebounding alone are probably more valuable than anything Demarcus Cousins and Paul George have ever done on a basketball court.

[cshelb34687]

Isiah Thomas ranked at #13? Can't understand that one for the life of me!

[yiguiri2002]

It's almost as if Blowout doesn't take the time to read... shocking I say. Shocking.

This is basically his list of MVP voting for 2016-17. That's it. Nothing more. He specifically says that long term upside is irrelevant. So why is Draymond ahead of George, Davis, and Cousins? Because he was better this year.

I'll quote from the beginning

"The goal is to identify those we'd most want to build around based on results from the current campaign, so long-term upside and prowess in the distant past are irrelevant. "

My favorite word... wait for it... wait for it...

Context.

But then he has LeBron 1st which throws away that argument.

I really don't get some of the things he did (Draymond Top 10 for example) but how can you put LeBron 1st when 2 of the 3 metrics you used have both Harden and Westbrook ahead?

[NeilCO]

Why? Because he doesn't score as much?

The fixation with volume shooting by fans is insane to me.

I'm with you. 100%. This is probably why I love Gorgui, and you love Otto Porter. The guys who do all the non-scoring things that most fans don't appreciate.

I don't agree with everything this Fromal guy writes (didn't have Gorgui listed among best defensive PFs?!?), but I generally like his style.

[asujbl]

But then he has LeBron 1st which throws away that argument.

I really don't get some of the things he did (Draymond Top 10 for example) but how can you put LeBron 1st when 2 of the 3 metrics you used have both Harden and Westbrook ahead?

It does? He thinks LeBron is the MVP. That doesn't make the argument less valid. I don't agree... but that's his choice. There are plenty of people that agree. He won't win the award in reality but that's not really the point.

And "I" didn't use anything. I quoted the piece since everyone else ignored it and wants to go based on future potential. Green possibly was a Top 10 player this year. You probably aren't taking him over Paul George if you were starting a team however which is what people were arguing above.

He thinks LeBron was the best player in 2016-17. It's really quite simple.

[yiguiri2002]

It does? He thinks LeBron is the MVP. That doesn't make the argument less valid. I don't agree... but that's his choice. There are plenty of people that agree. He won't win the award in reality but that's not really the point.

And "I" didn't use anything. I quoted the piece since everyone else ignored it and wants to go based on future potential. Green possibly was a Top 10 player this year. You probably aren't taking him over Paul George if you were starting a team however which is what people were arguing above.

He thinks LeBron was the best player in 2016-17. It's really quite simple.

When I said you, I meant the guy who wrote the article not you. My point is simple: You think LeBron was the best? OK. But then don't go and use data in your article that doesn't have him at the best.

There was a guy here who said LeBron was #1 in RPM and Wins from RPM and that should make him the MVP. That's fine. But if you include PER and TPOA, metrics that have Harden and Westbrook ahead of LeBron, how can he be first? That makes no sense.

[yiguiri2002]

I'm with you. 100%. This is probably why I love Gorgui, and you love Otto Porter. The guys who do all the non-scoring things that most fans don't appreciate.

I don't agree with everything this Fromal guy writes (didn't have Gorgui listed among best defensive PFs?!?), but I generally like his style.

People are actually changing when it comes to numbers. Gorgui got his money. Noel will probably get something close to the max and I think Otto will get the full max. Hell, Zeller will get close to it to. And rightfully so.

[NeilCO]

People are actually changing when it comes to numbers. Gorgui got his money. Noel will probably get something close to the max and I think Otto will get the full max. Hell, Zeller will get close to it to. And rightfully so.

Yup, people within the NBA are buying the advanced stats more and more. A lot of fans still don't see value in the guys who don't score 20+ or make crazy athletic plays.

[the27guy]

Looks at list.

Where's Hayward? 26. Phsshhh. This list sucks.

Where's Gobert? 12. Hmm.... maybe it's not so bad.

[dasiegel]

I stopped reading when I saw Jeremy Lin was above Harrison Barnes.

[NeilCO]

Looks at list.

Where's Hayward? 26. Phsshhh. This list sucks.

Where's Gobert? 12. Hmm.... maybe it's not so bad.



I love the Gobert ranking. One of the most impactful players in the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Harper]

Bulls have 2 on list. Wade at 64, butler at 9. Can't say those numbers don't sound close.

I feel robin Lopez got forgotten. Rest of bulls players didn't deserve top 100 based on regular season play.

If this is an evaluation of talent this year, how are Simenon playoff teams so deep with 3 plus in the list???

[rats60]

When I said you, I meant the guy who wrote the article not you. My point is simple: You think LeBron was the best? OK. But then don't go and use data in your article that doesn't have him at the best.

There was a guy here who said LeBron was #1 in RPM and Wins from RPM and that should make him the MVP. That's fine. But if you include PER and TPOA, metrics that have Harden and Westbrook ahead of LeBron, how can he be first? That makes no sense.

If you were playing game 1 of the NBA Finals today, who would you want Lebron, Westbrook or Harden? Metrics are fine, but they don't show the whole picture. In the end it is one person's opinion. However, I would take Lebron, even though I am a hater because I don't think he is a top 5 player all time. There are a lot of others who would still take Lebron over anyone in the NBA.

[andy88c]

Gobert at 12 is nice, as people mentioned. He's top-10 in my book, though. Pushing top-5.

I think I like the ranking of Kyrie. He might be even lower to me.

Win Shares is a better metric than PER, IMO. I think that's the major flaw he's working with. It's not perfect, but it's better than PER. Feel free to google if you're interested in the stat geek side of how those metrics are calculated.

Draymond isn't a product of the system. I think the system works because of his unique skillset, rather than vice versa.

We all know how I feel about Westbrook. He's top-10 for me, but I'd put Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, and the GS 3 above him.

[jstasyk1121]

Gobert at 12 is nice, as people mentioned. He's top-10 in my book, though. Pushing top-5.

I think I like the ranking of Kyrie. He might be even lower to me.

Win Shares is a better metric than PER, IMO. I think that's the major flaw he's working with. It's not perfect, but it's better than PER. Feel free to google if you're interested in the stat geek side of how those metrics are calculated.

Draymond isn't a product of the system. I think the system works because of his unique skillset, rather than vice versa.

We all know how I feel about Westbrook. He's top-10 for me, but I'd put Kawhi, Harden, Giannis, and the GS 3 above him.

i just have to disagree...respectfully....as i believe if he was traded to a 2nd tier or 3rd tier or garbage team...he would not be some jack of all trades type in my opinion....

if you put him on the Lakers or something he would have to be a bigger piece of the pie...he would have to carry the load more...which would prob lessen his overall impact as it is now...cuz now he just doesnt have to worry about anything but just play def and pass to all world shooters(im not downplaying his skills to just this, just making point that he doesnt have to focus on offense at all)...if he was on a crap team that didnt have three of the better shooters/scorers around...he would be more focal point of the opponent then he is now...

i just think overall he would be viewed as much lower in the NBA grand scheme if he was supposed to be the #1 option on a bad team...but being #3/4 on an amazing team just lets him fill the stat sheet like a madman some times...

[lyyca]

Andre Roberson over Jeremy Lin? MUAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!

[andy88c]

i just have to disagree...respectfully....as i believe if he was traded to a 2nd tier or 3rd tier or garbage team...he would not be some jack of all trades type in my opinion....

if you put him on the Lakers or something he would have to be a bigger piece of the pie...he would have to carry the load more...which would prob lessen his overall impact as it is now...cuz now he just doesnt have to worry about anything but just play def and pass to all world shooters(im not downplaying his skills to just this, just making point that he doesnt have to focus on offense at all)...if he was on a crap team that didnt have three of the better shooters/scorers around...he would be more focal point of the opponent then he is now...

i just think overall he would be viewed as much lower in the NBA grand scheme if he was supposed to be the #1 option on a bad team...but being #3/4 on an amazing team just lets him fill the stat sheet like a madman some times...

Nobody else in this league can guard all five positions like Draymond can. It's insane how good he is on defense. It's not like he shoots that much on offense anyway. I agree that he would not excel as the #1 scoring option on a team, but I don't think he'd do that on any team. Even on the Lakers, he would run the offense, but Russell and Ingram would have more of a scoring role than him.

If he were on my Grizzlies, we'd be a championship contender...

[NeilCO]

Win Shares is a better metric than PER, IMO. I think that's the major flaw he's working with. It's not perfect, but it's better than PER. Feel free to google if you're interested in the stat geek side of how those metrics are calculated.


I prefer Real Plus-Minus and NBA Math's TPA model to both.

Win Shares it tied to how many wins a player's team got, so players on teams that don't win a lot don't get credit. It makes sense to an extent, but good players on winning teams get too much credit and good players on losing teams don't get enough.

[NeilCO]

Nobody else in this league can guard all five positions like Draymond can. It's insane how good he is on defense. It's not like he shoots that much on offense anyway. I agree that he would not excel as the #1 scoring option on a team, but I don't think he'd do that on any team. Even on the Lakers, he would run the offense, but Russell and Ingram would have more of a scoring role than him.

If he were on my Grizzlies, we'd be a championship contender...

I agree with this. I'm not fan of Draymond, but he is extremely valuable.

[Steveefranchise]

Woooooo! Bledsoe at 37!

[rats60]

Any question who is number one after tonight?

[Supersuper]

Irving only 32??? Hahaha what a #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ list

[tjforce]

Any question who is number one after tonight?

Giannis, obviously. lol

[JustinVerlander07]

Irving only 32??? Hahaha what a #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ list

Kyrie is nothing but a stats filler without LeBron IMO. He's never shown any propensity to lead a team at all.

[tjforce]

Kyrie is nothing but a stats filler without LeBron IMO. He's never shown any propensity to lead a team at all.


And he's the guy I'd want to take the last high pressure shot over anyone in the league.

He's not the complete package, but to have him at 32 and Lowry at 11, is ridiculous.

[JustinVerlander07]

And he's the guy I'd want to take the last high pressure shot over anyone in the league.

He's not the complete package, but to have him at 32 and Lowry at 11, is ridiculous.

I do agree with you to a degree, there are others I'd rather take the last shot, but I think the Cavs couldn't win without him with LeBron on the team, however without LeBron I'm not sure he could get a team out of the lottery. Fascinating player given the national stance on him.

[drobfan8]

And he's the guy I'd want to take the last high pressure shot over anyone in the league.

He's not the complete package, but to have him at 32 and Lowry at 11, is ridiculous.

Kyrie is extremely underrated, obviously having LeBron control things helps at times, but this is a guy that lights up Steph and he's the only guy that's put 50 on the Spurs in the last 20 years or something crazy.

Dude is legit and if it's GS vs CLE finals again he'll destroy Steph again.

Personally I'd have him top 10.

[gomiamigo]

And he's the guy I'd want to take the last high pressure shot over anyone in the league.



Hahahhahaah what? C'mon man.

[drobfan8]

Hahahhahaah what? C'mon man.

Are you for real?

Ray Allen (the only other guy that comes to mind) and Kyrie have hit 2 of the biggest shots in nba history. Especially in the last 15 seasons.

The big difference being that Allens was off a scrambling play. Kyrie's was drawn up. That's a lot of pressure. Game 7 for the championship, on the road, doesn't get bigger.

[JustinVerlander07]

Are you for real?

Ray Allen (the only other guy that comes to mind) and Kyrie have hit 2 of the biggest shots in nba history. Especially in the last 15 seasons.

The big difference being that Allens was off a scrambling play. Kyrie's was drawn up. That's a lot of pressure. Game 7 for the championship, on the road, doesn't get bigger.

A 1 shot sample size, solid.

[drobfan8]

A 1 shot sample size, solid.

Yeah Kyrie has only ever hit 1 big shot, you're right :rolleyes:

[JustinVerlander07]

Yeah Kyrie has only ever hit 1 big shot, you're right :rolleyes:

This seems closer to the nicknaming of Chauncey Billups Mr. Big Shot, more narrative than substance.

[Supersuper]

Kyrie is nothing but a stats filler without LeBron IMO. He's never shown any propensity to lead a team at all.

http://youtu.be/n-3l5D0RWjw

I just don't think lebron can get the title without Kyrie's help.

Remember 2015 finals when kyrie and love were not playing.

[tjforce]

Yeah Kyrie has only ever hit 1 big shot, you're right :rolleyes:

For sure. It's not like he had another game winner against the dubs on Christmas. Or any that time he dropped 55 on the spurs.

[exoticprince]

http://youtu.be/n-3l5D0RWjw

I just don't think lebron can get the title without Kyrie's help.

Remember 2015 finals when kyrie and love were not playing.

No doubt just like MJ would never win a title without Scottie. Even the best need help it's a team

[Ferg1945]

Was Boogie traded back to the Kings after the season?

[drobfan8]

For sure. It's not like he had another game winner against the dubs on Christmas. Or any that time he dropped 55 on the spurs.

That Spurs game was phenomenal, just an incredible game and he was the centerpiece.

[JustinVerlander07]

http://youtu.be/n-3l5D0RWjw

I just don't think lebron can get the title without Kyrie's help.

Remember 2015 finals when kyrie and love were not playing.

I agree that LeBron can't win without Kyrie, I already mentioned it myself, but I don't think Kyrie by himself is all that great of a player.

[cp3fan]

I agree that LeBron can't win without Kyrie, I already mentioned it myself, but I don't think Kyrie by himself is all that great of a player.

Kyrie is perfect in the role he is in. He's a great second option that can function in a primary role in clutch situations. I would agree that he would not be able to carry a team by himself. That has been proven. He will probably never be mvp and is not a perennial first team all nba player but again, he thrives in his current role.

[EMD34]

Durant at 6? Curry at 5? LOL They are the clear #2 and #3 players in the league.

[drobfan8]

Kyrie is perfect in the role he is in. He's a great second option that can function in a primary role in clutch situations. I would agree that he would not be able to carry a team by himself. That has been proven. He will probably never be mvp and is not a perennial first team all nba player but again, he thrives in his current role.

How has this been "proven"? The first 3 seasons of his career? Come on now, he was a kid and still is. Guy isn't even in his prime yet.

We're not really sure what he'd do without LeBron for a full season, but I don't think it's crazy to think he could give you something around what Harden is doing.

I couldn't disagree more about the first team all nba nod either, he needs another couple of years, but his skill set is off the charts.

[cp3fan]

How has this been "proven"? The first 3 seasons of his career? Come on now, he was a kid and still is. Guy isn't even in his prime yet.

We're not really sure what he'd do without LeBron for a full season, but I don't think it's crazy to think he could give you something around what Harden is doing.

I couldn't disagree more about the first team all nba nod either, he needs another couple of years, but his skill set is off the charts.

I disagree with him being like harden. He's just not that talented of a playmaker. Whenever lebron has sat out the last few years while Irving plays, what does the Cavs record look like? So we have his first few years in the league plus his performance when lebron has been out. If say the evidence points much more towards him not being a #1 option. He is extremely fun to watch and a very good player but if he's your teams number one option, your team won't be going very far. He's 25. He's probably got 3, maybe 4 years of prime play. I wouldn't be surprised if he never makes an all nba team or only 1.

[drobfan8]

I disagree with him being like harden. He's just not that talented of a playmaker. Whenever lebron has sat out the last few years while Irving plays, what does the Cavs record look like? So we have his first few years in the league plus his performance when lebron has been out. If say the evidence points much more towards him not being a #1 option. He is extremely fun to watch and a very good player but if he's your teams number one option, your team won't be going very far. He's 25. He's probably got 3, maybe 4 years of prime play. I wouldn't be surprised if he never makes an all nba team or only 1.

You seriously think he couldn't get 5 more points and 5 more assists without LeBron's 30 usage points gone? I disagree, but I doubt we'll ever find out, LeBron aint letting this kid leave his side.

The whole argument about Lebron not playing and their record is one of the biggest cop outs I've ever heard. It's a pretty large adjustment to make to lose Lebron, plus who they bring in for LeBron is usually more R. Jefferson or worse.

Kyrie has already made a 3rd team all nba and been an All star MVP. But it will be tough to get a first team all NBA unless the Cavs can put a 60-65 win season together.

I actually think he'll get a finals MVP before he gets first team all nba, hard to get if you're not the first option.

Oh and here's an interesting stat.

Cavaliers Without Kyrie Irving: LeBron James And ... ? (http://hoopshabit.com/2015/06/07/cavaliers-without-kyrie-irving-else-shoots-besides-lebron/)

In 14/15 WITHOUT Kyrie the Cavs were 3 and 6. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that LeBron can't lead a team without him. Ludicrous huh?

I actually don't believe either are true.

[cp3fan]

You seriously think he couldn't get 5 more points and 5 more assists without LeBron's 30 usage points gone? I disagree, but I doubt we'll ever find out, LeBron aint letting this kid leave his side.

The whole argument about Lebron not playing and their record is one of the biggest cop outs I've ever heard. It's a pretty large adjustment to make to lose Lebron, plus who they bring in for LeBron is usually more R. Jefferson or worse.

Kyrie has already made a 3rd team all nba and been an All star MVP. But it will be tough to get a first team all NBA unless the Cavs can put a 60-65 win season together.

I actually think he'll get a finals MVP before he gets first team all nba, hard to get if you're not the first option.

Oh and here's an interesting stat.

Cavaliers Without Kyrie Irving: LeBron James And ... ? (http://hoopshabit.com/2015/06/07/cavaliers-without-kyrie-irving-else-shoots-besides-lebron/)

In 14/15 WITHOUT Kyrie the Cavs were 3 and 6. So I'm gonna go ahead and say that LeBron can't lead a team without him. Ludicrous huh?

I actually don't believe either are true.


The question about upping his assists and points without lebron would be how efficient would it be? Things may sound ludicrous but the only evidence that there is show how Kyrie and his team have performed without James. Lebron has won elsewhere and took a horrible Cavs team to the finals and has performed well in the playoffs when Kyrie hasn't been available so he's a proven commodity. We probably will never know how kyrie would perform without lebron in the next few years but unfortunately, kyries legacy will be based on what's actually happened and not what ifs and assumptions.i will agree that I could definitely see a finals mvp in his future but beyond that I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[drobfan8]

The question about upping his assists and points without lebron would be how efficient would it be? Things may sound ludicrous but the only evidence that there is show how Kyrie and his team have performed without James. Lebron has won elsewhere and took a horrible Cavs team to the finals and has performed well in the playoffs when Kyrie hasn't been available so he's a proven commodity. We probably will never know how kyrie would perform without lebron in the next few years but unfortunately, kyries legacy will be based on what's actually happened and not what ifs and assumptions.i will agree that I could definitely see a finals mvp in his future but beyond that I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Yeah and I just showed LeBron was 3 and 6 without Kyrie in 14/15 so.....

LeBron, Wade and Bosh started 8 and 9 I think (first season together), things take time. Spot games here and there just don't count.

Oh and that horrible Cavs team he took to the finals, was in one of the most horrible divisions/conferences of all time, that season, with that record in the west, he would have played the Spurs in the 1st round and been swept, people always forget that.

I never asked for Kyrie's legacy to be based on what ifs. I really am just disagreeing that Kyrie couldn't carry a team. I think that's garbage, especially now as he's hitting his prime. The next 5 years for him are going to be special.

[drobfan8]

Going back to the rankings, it is laughable to put LeBron at 1, that's clearly on credibility, which is fair enough, but he didn't play like the no. 1 player in the world this season and his team wasn't even close to being the best.

KD should definitely be above Steph, but they may have factored in the injury.

[JustinVerlander07]

How has this been "proven"? The first 3 seasons of his career? Come on now, he was a kid and still is. Guy isn't even in his prime yet.

We're not really sure what he'd do without LeBron for a full season, but I don't think it's crazy to think he could give you something around what Harden is doing.

I couldn't disagree more about the first team all nba nod either, he needs another couple of years, but his skill set is off the charts.

Kyrie couldn't possibly do what Harden is doing, no way. His court vision is pretty meh.

[drobfan8]

Kyrie couldn't possibly do what Harden is doing, no way. His court vision is pretty meh.

Yeah it would be so hard to get in to the paint and then kick it out for a 3 point shot. D'Antoni's offense has everyone baffled. Jeremy Lin was awesome in it, but you're so right, Kyrie would struggle:rolleyes:

[JustinVerlander07]

Yeah it would be so hard to get in to the paint and then kick it out for a 3 point shot. D'Antoni's offense has everyone baffled. Jeremy Lin was awesome in it, but you're so right, Kyrie would struggle:rolleyes:
He could do that on Cleveland, LeBron does it (LeBron also has amazing court vision, unlike Kyrie), it's not his strength. He should really be a 2 guard, no biggie.

[drobfan8]

He could do that on Cleveland, LeBron does it (LeBron also has amazing court vision, unlike Kyrie), it's not his strength. He should really be a 2 guard, no biggie.

Ha ha, LeBron doesn't have amazing court vision, teams sag off him and help because he's going to drive the lane and kick if all the help comes.

Kyrie is just as effective in the pick and roll as Harden. Team Harden up with LeBron and he'd have Kyrie's stats and ring. Swap Kyrie on to HOU and we'd be talking about Kyrie being in the running for MVP.

Either way, I'm looking forward to Kyrie destroying Steph again.