Robert Horry Loves Hakeem - At The Expense Of Timmy?

[Cervantes]

Robert Horry is on The Jump right now, and he's bigging up Hakeem so hard, which is great, because Hakeem is one of the GOAT's at his position, imo, but he's doing it AT THE EXPENSE of Duncan.

Hakeem is "20 times better'' than Tim...and then he reiterated that fact, by comparing their work ethic.

He said something about needing to ''take it to another level'' to be a superstar...all of this after he exclaimed he ''played with both''...

I love Horry, and I hate these types of threads, except when I make them, of course. I understand the full context is needed, but it was live right now.

Anyone else catch that? I'll put up a video if I can find one.

(BTW, I understand it's not the end of the world, and it's one man's opinion, blah blah, but it was just...weird, to hear negative about Tim Duncan, I guess...in a basketball sense)

[SelfDestruct808]

I'm watching it too. i mean he did play with both so he has those experiences with those two that we didn't see on tv. He just wants it known that The Dream doesn't get much love.

[seabass97166]

Horry was clutch of course, but should have been a much better overall player with his skill set

[Jin]

Interesting take..

I don't know if it's fair to make that judgement though since Hakeem was in his prime when Horry was on the Rockets and Duncan was out of his when he played with the Spurs

[duron]

I honestly don't even see it as Horry being negative toward Duncan. Duncan himself would probably even agree with what Horry said, and not just to placate anyone, since he's such an even-keeled, non-drama type of guy. Obviously Duncan has more rings, but I think there would be just as many people who view Hakeem as better than Duncan as vice versa.

The fact Duncan can even be legitimately comparable to Hakeem is a testament to his own greatness.

Also, keep in mind how many younger listeners tune in to that show. A huge chunk probably haven't even see Hakeem play. I mean damn, they might not even have seen the beginning of Duncan's career.

[xavieronly1]

Interesting take..

I don't know if it's fair to make that judgement though since Hakeem was in his prime when Horry was on the Rockets and Duncan was out of his when he played with the Spurs

Horry played with Spurs from 03 to 08. That was during Duncan's prime.

As for Horry's comment, I think he just meant that Spurs success had more to do with Pop and the GM rather than all from Duncan. Spurs had tons of HOF players.

Rockets did not really have much help from their 1st championship run. Drexler was a big plus for their 2nd run.

[dasiegel]

Hearing this only from the OP this is surprising because of the source and the fact that everyone only has good things to say about Duncan.

BUT

This does not surprise me. Is Duncan the best PF ever? I think he had the best career of any power forward yes. But circumstances, coaches, competition, etc have a lot to do with better careers. I agree Hakeem is the better talent and I don't think it's close. He could score, rebound and block shots better than Duncan.

However, it's not Duncan's fault he had Robinson as a mentor, Parker and Manu in their prime, caught the tail end of Kawhi and had Pop as a coach. It's not his fault he walked into a team ready to win titles early in his career. It's not his fault that the Lakers self destructed with Shaq and Kobe, etc etc.

Overall they are both top 10ish all time.

[drobfan8]

This would be a tough one if needing to select 1 or the other.

Horry also says Rudy T was by far his best coach ever.

He may just have the boner from that team because of the good times early with that team.

The question is, would Hakeem even have a title if Jordan never retired?

Splitting hairs on either, I think Tim could be more dominant, Hakeem and him had some similarities for sure.

[6celtics33]

It's a good debate between those 2 and Shaq about what order they would all 3 be in. I love Timmy and the Spurs but Hakeem was a bad man. As complete a player as there ever was and he would be better today with how athletic he was and his good footwork. He'd be amazing in pick and roll situations.

[spurs50fan]

Seems like they couldn't squeeze anymore interest out of the Hakeem/Robinson debate. That used to be the troll.

I think a lot of good memories and thoughts gotta be at play with his first run, when he was most impressionable as a rookie. When he himself was there to put in the work. Not later in his career, after a handful of rings.

[Cervantes]

Great comments from everyone; exactly the conversation I was looking for.

I think he wanted to really stress that Hakeem doesn't get enough love, which for this generation, is so true and even more sad. What a great, great talent. So many top-tier players (of all time) from the 90's who don't get enough love these days.

[ninjacookies]

I think it's tough to build a center more prototypical than Olajowon. It's never happened before he came into the league...and it hasn't happened after.

He was a point guard in a center's body and had the quickness and agility of a wide receiver thanks to his strong soccer background. I see nothing outrageous about Horry's claims...I'd take Akeem 10 times out of 10 over Duncan...and that's no shade on Duncan, that's simply praise for Akeem's skillset.

[6celtics33]

I think it's tough to build a center more prototypical than Olajowon. It's never happened before he came into the league...and it hasn't happened after.

He was a point guard in a center's body and had the quickness and agility of a wide receiver thanks to his strong soccer background. I see nothing outrageous about Horry's claims...I'd take Akeem 10 times out of 10 over Duncan...and that's no shade on Duncan, that's simply praise for Akeem's skillset.

Can't argue

[BestRCs]

Great comments from everyone; exactly the conversation I was looking for.

I think he wanted to really stress that Hakeem doesn't get enough love, which for this generation, is so true and even more sad. What a great, great talent. So many top-tier players (of all time) from the 90's who don't get enough love these days.

Yeah ... i have to admit I was one of those that didnt appreciate him while he was around... it was only after he retired and I started to rewatch old games did I truly understand what a marvel he was...

He was crazy..... like ^ said he was a PG in a centers body.... with crazy skillsets.... idk if a guard even has his skillsets and for sure no center has his skill sets.

I have no problem with Horry saying what he did .. although 20x better? Im sure there was soOme hyperbole there in terms of effectiveness in game situations.... although skill set wise it may not have been a hyperbole. The dream was that skilled.

[drobfan8]

I think people need to go back and check Tim Duncan running around like a gazelle in his early days. He and Hakeem weren't all that different.

Hakeem also struggled to get out of the first round for about 10 years in the West, that's not a good look, I don't care for excuses. TD rode with Nesterovic and Jarret Jackson and the likes for a while there.

It's easy to remember Hakeem's prime, but it's still fresh what TD's last few seasons were like.

[raps2spurs]

Hakeem was great but definite hyperbole by Horry. Duncan had a great coach/gm tandem that put good pieces around him (two future HOF's) but there haven't been many superstar players like TD, he's very easy to build a good team around since he leads by example and doesn't expect preferential treatment and has an incredibly high basketball IQ.

Timmy was a a two-way monster for the majority of his career and he was still a very effective big in the twilight of his playing days.

As much of a beast as Hakeem was, especially during the championship title wins, people should look back at TD in 03, he was an absolute monster and carried a fairly mediocre team to a championship. Prime wise I have the two as very close but Timmy's longevity makes it an easy choice for me.

[tierre_brown]

I think people need to go back and check Tim Duncan running around like a gazelle in his early days. He and Hakeem weren't all that different.

Hakeem also struggled to get out of the first round for about 10 years in the West, that's not a good look, I don't care for excuses. TD rode with Nesterovic and Jarret Jackson and the likes for a while there.

It's easy to remember Hakeem's prime, but it's still fresh what TD's last few seasons were like.

So...1985-86 they went to the Finals and lost to the Celtics in 6. 1986-87 lost to Seattle in the second round in 6. This was with Ralph Sampson missing half the season in 86-87 and a two season ban for Lew Lloyd and Mitchell Wiggins for positive cocaine tests. John Lucas was also dropped for drugs.

The fact that he wasn't able to "get out of the first round for about 10 years" was because his team was gutted.

It's been a while since I read it, but Grantland had a good oral history on the Rockets and their downfall:

The Greatest Team That Never Was « (http://grantland.com/features/an-oral-history-hakeem-olajuwon-ralph-sampson-1980s-houston-rockets/)

To hold the lost decade on Hakeem is fair in a vacuum; however, there were a lot of circumstances not under his control. To be fair, he didn't unlock his full potential until his insane peak culminating with him winning a championship with no other superstars around him. The argument about whether he would have even won if MJ was still around may be fair, but it would have been a close series.

I have the utmost respect for Timmy. I think 20x is obviously hyperbole. And Horry was a young gun with the Rockets which may color his experiences since it molded him into the player he was. However, I think the ultimate purpose was to give Hakeem props and remind the younger generation just how special Hakeem was. And Hakeem stepped his game up in the playoffs immensely; one of the few big men who was able to do that.

[JasonM32]

Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem are all among the greatest to ever play. Love all three of these guys. I miss the old NBA when centers didn't shoot thee pointers and sit on the bench for 40 minutes a game.

[irfuji]

Shaq, Duncan and Hakeem are all among the greatest to ever play. Love all three of these guys. I miss the old NBA when centers didn't shoot thee pointers and sit on the bench for 40 minutes a game.

It's interesting because you get 3 guys who were a "never before seen" type of talent. Shaq was a never someone so strong. Duncan was never so fundamentally sound and IQ of the game, Hakeem was never before a center with that kind of footwork and general athleticism.

Personally, I would put it Hakeem, Duncan, then Shaq if I were ranking the 3. Hakeem is probably the best overall player that you can build a team around. Duncan I love but I think he needs another true scoring threat to really be effective, and Shaq just has a fatal flaw in free throws.

But it's worth mentioning that the differences between the three and the overall impact they would have on teams is extremely close in my opinion.

Hakeem doesn't get much love because he was overshadowed by Jordan. But also keep in mind this is/was a guy who was never a really flashy player. I bet most younger guys know Dikembe more than Hakeem, but only because of Dikembe's finger wag.

[spurs50fan]

Horry was obviously playing tv. NO one is 20x better than Duncan lol

He also mentioned he would have 10 rings if Manu had shown up. 10? Really? lmao Manu swatted that comment down like that bat :D

It's fine if Horry has a special place for Hakeem though. It happens. Hakeem was amazing....... It just seems like he meant for this to spread like wildfire and it didn't. The shame is Spurs fans gave him a pass through the regular season for many years bc he "shows up" when it counts.

[jrosales]

Horry was obviously playing tv. NO one is 20x better than Duncan lol

He also mentioned he would have 10 rings if Manu had shown up. 10? Really? lmao Manu swatted that comment down like that bat :D

It's fine if Horry has a special place for Hakeem though. It happens. Hakeem was amazing....... It just seems like he meant for this to spread like wildfire and it didn't. The shame is Spurs fans gave him a pass through the regular season for many years bc he "shows up" when it counts.

I have Timmy and Hakeem ranked around evenly. Both in the Top 10, and on any day one could overtake the other in my ranking. But to suggest that Hakeem is THAT MUCH better than Duncan is just irresponsible.

Another thing Horry mentioned was the fact that Hakeem shot something like 80% in free throw percentage (I BELIEVE this is what he said, at least it's what I heard second-hand). If he did say this...he's dead wrong. They are both in the high-60s in free throw %, and separated by 2 or 3 percent.

[drobfan8]

So...1985-86 they went to the Finals and lost to the Celtics in 6. 1986-87 lost to Seattle in the second round in 6. This was with Ralph Sampson missing half the season in 86-87 and a two season ban for Lew Lloyd and Mitchell Wiggins for positive cocaine tests. John Lucas was also dropped for drugs.

The fact that he wasn't able to "get out of the first round for about 10 years" was because his team was gutted.

It's been a while since I read it, but Grantland had a good oral history on the Rockets and their downfall:

The Greatest Team That Never Was « (http://grantland.com/features/an-oral-history-hakeem-olajuwon-ralph-sampson-1980s-houston-rockets/)

To hold the lost decade on Hakeem is fair in a vacuum; however, there were a lot of circumstances not under his control. To be fair, he didn't unlock his full potential until his insane peak culminating with him winning a championship with no other superstars around him. The argument about whether he would have even won if MJ was still around may be fair, but it would have been a close series.

I have the utmost respect for Timmy. I think 20x is obviously hyperbole. And Horry was a young gun with the Rockets which may color his experiences since it molded him into the player he was. However, I think the ultimate purpose was to give Hakeem props and remind the younger generation just how special Hakeem was. And Hakeem stepped his game up in the playoffs immensely; one of the few big men who was able to do that.

You're right, and I agree. Hakeem was special. He was incredible.

But seriously, before and after his 90s chips he didn't make it out of the first round. It's great he had a run to the finals with another beast in Sampson, but Hakeem should have had a longer peak and he didn't. Like you said, it took him a while to peak.

I've seen Horry laugh off Phil Jackson being a good coach. He clearly has rose tinted glasses for those Rockets squads, although they are CRIMINALLY underrated.

Personally I have TD as top 5 all time.

Hakeem around the 10-12 mark.

But I don't really have a problem with Hakeem being put above TD, but his peak was shorter than we're lead to belive.

[6celtics33]

His peak dominance does cloud the issue because of how he dusted his contemporaries on the biggest stage I think. He beat Ewing and Shaq in the finals and smoked Robinson in the playoffs. That'd be like Lebron beating these Warriors and the Spurs without all of the other stuff he's done and dominating Kawhi and Durant. Oh lord can you imagine? We'd never hear the end of it.

[CubKings]

Horry made clutch shots to help 3 of the greatest big guys to ever play. Kinda crazy for a role player.