Kevin Durant or Kevin Garnett [Archive]

Chain

06-10-2017, 08:32 AM

Durant is the better player and is on track to pass Garnett in accomplishments.

But Garnett isn't that far off. He is better than Durant in defense and also proven that he can carry teams to wins and playoff success.

I currently have Garnett as the 20th greatest player all-time, but when Durant's career is over, I foresee him ending up in the top 15 and possibly cracking top 10.

AlabamaSlamma

06-10-2017, 09:02 AM

Durant is the better player...

...But Garnett isn't that far off. He is better than Durant in defense and also proven that he can carry teams to wins and playoff success.

I like you.

EMD34

06-10-2017, 09:18 AM

KG is a top 15-20 player, KD will likely end up in the 7-10 range if his defense continues to improve. Both are great but I'd give KD the edge due to his incredible scoring ability, as great as KG was his career high in PPG was only 24.

the mesiah

06-10-2017, 09:24 AM

Big Ticket was a beast back in the day and better overall cuz of the 11x All Defensive NBA teams + the consistent low 20's ppg , 10+ boards and later on NBA D player of the year .. Durant was always one dimensional and now all of a sudden people want to make him to be some defensive juggernaut, he is not .Its tough but Ill take Ticket on this one to start the franchise .

2010GBPackers

06-10-2017, 09:24 AM

It's not really close. Durant.

exoticprince

06-10-2017, 09:52 AM

KD 7 days a week

Rareairx23

06-10-2017, 09:55 AM

Garnett

Beavers98

06-10-2017, 10:04 AM

Leaning towards Durant, but as some have said I think it's close with Garnett... Durant's career isn't over, so there could be some separation, but for now it's close imo..

BBallCT

06-10-2017, 10:20 AM

Durant for me, an all-time scorer being compared to an all-time defender.

Both versatile, however Durant is by far the better ball handler and has longer shooting range, plus he's quite allright on D

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spurs50fan

06-10-2017, 10:45 AM

Realize the only reason this is a thread is because Durant hopped over to a team that had come off 2 consecutive Finals appearances. Otherwise he'd be trolling on social media like the rest of us right now. He made the right move because of this type of chatter. Since both had to jump to get to that next level, I'd consider their body of work before those moves. That said take Garnett since his contribution on both ends carried some questionable teams into the playoffs. Durant's offensive game is another level, his length helps him on D but we've seen him taken out of big games....many. Now without the ability for defenses to key in on him, he's looking like Wilt Jordan

hofcollector2

06-10-2017, 11:20 AM

Garnett and it's not even close. Durrant would wilt if guarded by prime Garnett. The only thing Durrant is better at than KG is 3pt shooting, that's it. Garnett's a better leader, way more intense, way better defensively, way better on boards, better passer. It's a no brainer.

yiguiri2002

06-10-2017, 11:51 AM

I'm shocked so many people picked Durant. Obviously KD is in another level offensively but so was KG offensively.

If you look at both of them right now, I'll give the nod to KG. But once his career is over, I think KD will top him.

AlabamaSlamma

06-10-2017, 12:51 PM

Man, I hate to get all Simmons-y, but have we hit a point where KG is underrated? Even if it's mainly due to generational gaps, that kinda blows my mind.

Hallco

06-10-2017, 01:04 PM

Waiting until someone adds Kevin Love to this discussion! :coffee:

pac213up

06-10-2017, 01:30 PM

Garnett's impact on defense is unlike anything I have seen on that end of the court.

JMarchand1981

06-10-2017, 01:55 PM

KG is like 40. Not sure it's fair to compare the corpse of KG to a guy at his peak.

ntgm37

06-10-2017, 02:12 PM

KG is like 40. Not sure it's fair to compare the corpse of KG to a guy at his peak.

I'm not sure the question meant for their current age...

ljandkg

06-10-2017, 03:15 PM

Man, I hate to get all Simmons-y, but have we hit a point where KG is underrated? Even if it's mainly due to generational gaps, that kinda blows my mind.

Always the way when comparing players in sports, the current or recent player is more fresh in the mind.

lietuvalabas

06-10-2017, 04:14 PM

Always the way when comparing players in sports, the current or recent player is more fresh in the mind.

Except when it's jordan....I do believe one day we'll see someone better..and no its not lebron. But a guy could average 100 points a game and win 7 titles and people would say " nope nope not better than jordan"

ljandkg

06-10-2017, 04:23 PM

Except when it's jordan....I do believe one day we'll see someone better..and no its not lebron. But a guy could average 100 points a game and win 7 titles and people would say " nope nope not better than jordan"

Yeah good point. He's beyond reproach!

rats60

06-10-2017, 04:48 PM

It's not really close. Durant.

This.
PER Durant 8th all time, Garnett 29th.
Win Shares per 48 Durant 9th, Garnett 34th.

crazymj

06-10-2017, 04:54 PM

comparing different player in a different period of time.

ljandkg

06-10-2017, 05:11 PM

This.
PER Durant 8th all time, Garnett 29th.
Win Shares per 48 Durant 9th, Garnett 34th.

How does this work? Number of wins? Does it take into account teammates they played with?

drobfan8

06-10-2017, 05:19 PM

What a great problem to have.

It's KD all day. Even before this GS run he's been to the conference finals 3 times I think, all in a very tough conference.

I'll never forget those scared eyes he had from last season vs GS though.

It's like he's in a fight with a prime Mike Tyson standing behind him

yaoming

06-10-2017, 05:30 PM

Man, I hate to get all Simmons-y, but have we hit a point where KG is underrated? Even if it's mainly due to generational gaps, that kinda blows my mind.

Agree with this
Like someone said on sports center, the last pretty girl you saw was the prettiest

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yaoming

06-10-2017, 05:31 PM

KD was a 6'11 Scottie Pippen on defense

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yaoming

06-10-2017, 05:31 PM

I meant KG above

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Ferg1945

06-10-2017, 05:48 PM

Waiting until someone adds Kevin Love to this discussion! :coffee:

Kevin McHale?

ljandkg

06-10-2017, 06:00 PM

Kevin McHale?

Kevin Costner?

JMarchand1981

06-10-2017, 06:01 PM

KD was a 6'11 Scottie Pippen on defense

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I meant KG above

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I am a Celtics fan. KG made that championship happen with his defense. Made. It. Happen.

MyckKabongo

06-10-2017, 06:16 PM

This.
PER Durant 8th all time, Garnett 29th.
Win Shares per 48 Durant 9th, Garnett 34th.

Not fair at all. KG paid nearly 10 years past his prime, which weighs down his average while Durant is still in his prime.

ksmith31

06-10-2017, 06:25 PM

Tim Duncan

rats60

06-10-2017, 08:04 PM

Not fair at all. KG paid nearly 10 years past his prime, which weighs down his average while Durant is still in his prime.

Yes it is. Durant has a PER of 26+ 7 of the last 8 seasons. Garnett broke 26 4 times in his career. Do you really think Durant is going to start declining next year?

Durant has had a WS/48 of .2 or more 7 of the last 8 years. Garnett 5 times with a high of .272. Durant has already exceeded that 3 times.

thecomebacker

06-10-2017, 08:25 PM

If starting a franchise, I'd take Garnett. Love his intensity and leadership. You can't acquire these qualities. You either have it or you don't.

BruinsFan1990

06-10-2017, 09:35 PM

All the Durant responses make me think not many of you watched much of KG in his prime. He's a much better defensive player and a better all-around talent than Durant. KG could shoot, post up and go to the basket. That was rare for a PF in his time, especially late 1990s and early 2000s.

MyckKabongo

06-10-2017, 10:33 PM

Yes it is. Durant has a PER of 26+ 7 of the last 8 seasons. Garnett broke 26 4 times in his career. Do you really think Durant is going to start declining next year?

Durant has had a WS/48 of .2 or more 7 of the last 8 years. Garnett 5 times with a high of .272. Durant has already exceeded that 3 times.

That's not really an answer to how misleading it was to compare a career average that includes decline years to an average for a guy who is still in his peak. Regardless, Garnett looks better by BPM/VORP, which is inarguably better than PER and seen as more accurate than WS by most.

Point is not to get into the merits of various advanced stats but to rebuke the claim that somehow advanced Stats show Durant is better and "it isn't even close." It's quite close actually.

yiguiri2002

06-10-2017, 10:42 PM

How does this work? Number of wins? Does it take into account teammates they played with?

PER barely accounts for defense. Win Shares, if I recall correctly, has a formula for calculating the total and the offensive side - the difference comes to be the defensive part of it.

Point is, both have problems incorporating defense into the equation (even acknowledge by their creators). It's why most of them have guys like KG so low in comparison to other players.

pingbling23

06-10-2017, 11:14 PM

ljandkg

06-11-2017, 12:30 AM

PER barely accounts for defense. Win Shares, if I recall correctly, has a formula for calculating the total and the offensive side - the difference comes to be the defensive part of it.

Point is, both have problems incorporating defense into the equation (even acknowledge by their creators). It's why most of them have guys like KG so low in comparison to other players.

Thanks, I've never gotten into the advanced stats too much. I'm too old. :D

anderjam

06-11-2017, 11:52 AM

I'd pick Garnett in his prime to build a team around, but it's pretty close with KD.

Art Vandelay

06-11-2017, 02:02 PM

Garnett for his superior trash talking skills alone...

rats60

06-11-2017, 06:13 PM

That's not really an answer to how misleading it was to compare a career average that includes decline years to an average for a guy who is still in his peak. Regardless, Garnett looks better by BPM/VORP, which is inarguably better than PER and seen as more accurate than WS by most.

Point is not to get into the merits of various advanced stats but to rebuke the claim that somehow advanced Stats show Durant is better and "it isn't even close." It's quite close actually.

No, Garnett is not close to Durant at all. BPM and VORP are counting stats. I used stats that were rate stats. Why not just say KG has more career points and rebounds and thus he is the better player. How many more games and minutes has KG played? Of course he is ahead on pretty much every counting stat.

When one player plays 20 seasons and the other 10, rate stats are the only way to compare them. Durant is in his prime, he has many good seasons ahead of him that will increase his WAR and WS/48 followed by declining years to bring it down. The end result will be very little change to where it is now. Durant has already had a higher peak, 3 seasons better than Garnett's best, as well as longer peak, 7 seasons and counting to Garnett's 4 or 5. You want to assume that Durant is at his peak and will only decline from now. That is the only was the two get close and it is not realistic. Right now, Durant has been the better player and it is not close.

yiguiri2002

06-11-2017, 08:57 PM

No, Garnett is not close to Durant at all. BPM and VORP are counting stats. I used stats that were rate stats. Why not just say KG has more career points and rebounds and thus he is the better player. How many more games and minutes has KG played? Of course he is ahead on pretty much every counting stat.

When one player plays 20 seasons and the other 10, rate stats are the only way to compare them. Durant is in his prime, he has many good seasons ahead of him that will increase his WAR and WS/48 followed by declining years to bring it down. The end result will be very little change to where it is now. Durant has already had a higher peak, 3 seasons better than Garnett's best, as well as longer peak, 7 seasons and counting to Garnett's 4 or 5. You want to assume that Durant is at his peak and will only decline from now. That is the only was the two get close and it is not realistic. Right now, Durant has been the better player and it is not close.

BPM is not a counting stat. VORP is though, and in top of that, it's based on BPM.

But KG's raw and adjusted plus minus numbers are insane. If you want to use a stat as an argument to put KG over KD, it should be that one.

8collector34

06-11-2017, 09:49 PM

KG, all day!

KD is a role player. Scoring one, so it is a very celebrated role, and with the right teammates, he will shine. But at the forward post, I will take an all around player over a scorer in my team. I feel the center should be the #1 scoring position and guard is #2. Ideally there is no need for a shooter at the forward position, but obviously I would not send someone like Bird, Nowitzki or KD in the paint to grab rebounds from Shaq, or the Worm.

the34truth

06-12-2017, 01:08 AM

From points and PER KD does look like a better player, but when you build a team around a player you don't only look at stats you watch the games. KG changes mentality of a team and KD ran away from his team. KG in his prime would take the ball over to the front court, run offense, pass, shoot, come back and play intense defense. He makes double team much easier as he covers all positions. KD could win 5 more rings with Warriors but from this perspective KG will always be the better player.

cp3fan

06-12-2017, 03:04 AM

This is really a good comparison for two completely different players. I've been fortunate to watch all of both players careers and I would lean towards Durant. Kg was incredible but there's something about a 7 footer at the perimeter shaking guards and getting anything on the offensive end they want. If you're wanting a leader and someone that doesn't shy away in big moments, I would go with Garnett.

Agreed on the leadership aspect but not shying away in big moments? That is either revionist history or you weren't watching basketball when KG was playing. He had a history of deferring in the 4th quarter. I can even remember magic criticizing him on tnt. USATODAY.com - Garnett needs more playoff bite (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/johnson/2002-04-30-johnson.htm)

drobfan8

06-12-2017, 03:11 AM

Agreed on the leadership aspect but not shying away in big moments? That is either revionist history or you weren't watching basketball when KG was playing. He had a history of deferring in the 4th quarter. I can even remember magic criticizing him on tnt. USATODAY.com - Garnett needs more playoff bite (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/johnson/2002-04-30-johnson.htm)

I completely agree.

KG is one of my favourite players of all time, but objectively it's KD. And I remember KG needing to be forced to take it at Pau in the finals. He lacked killer instinct himself.

jordan23xvii

06-12-2017, 04:17 AM

Prime KG.

drsma1

06-12-2017, 04:44 AM

KG all day. KD couldnt take his own team to a ring, so he pussed out and went to a 73 win team. So for me, KG for his leadership and not being a pussy.

Emoney35

06-12-2017, 05:08 AM

Was huge KG fan back then, but KD is just on another level. The only thing I can think KG does better on court is probability trash talk

spurs50fan

06-12-2017, 08:56 AM

KG all day. KD couldnt take his own team to a ring, so he pussed out and went to a 73 win team. So for me, KG for his leadership and not being a pussy.

Player movement can be debated all day but I think this may the first case of not just joining a team that made a rare comeback down 1-3 on your watch, a team that not only won 73 games but won it all recently. Had been to the Finals 2 years straight. Your team was one of their major competitors. He wasn't Malone, Payton, Nash, Shaq old either trying to jump on to get one before retirement.

But the mental aspect is also part of the elite athlete. So when people say "KD all day" they are basing it off pure talent. Which is ok but that mental edge that isn't measured in stats or advanced statistics can't be overlooked. Can only be witnessed and realized through the leadership in tough times. And that has been what's been suspect with KD. He didn't jump because he didn't think they could compete or that his team was so bad....he jumped to the best team because he knew it would be an easy ride with no rebuild time. And the league would polish his image by making it seem like this team, that's been to 3 straight Finals, just needed him to win it all. Not a knock on KD but you have to give credit to those players that step up when it's tough. But it's the now generation. Sure things. etc