Gary Payton - Where Do You Rank Him All-Time?

[Cervantes]

Gary Payton is my favorite PG of all time, and one of my favorite players, as well.

I'm curious as to where you rank him? Explanations are welcome, as are debates/conversations.

Thanks!

[WillC]

I've got him 44th all-time (http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/100-greatest-players-in-nba-history.html). Behind Kidd and CP3 but just ahead of Nash. It's always fun trying to rank those 4. They are all pretty close, in my opinion.

[kingofsnake]

I've got him 44th all-time (http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/100-greatest-players-in-nba-history.html). Behind Kidd and CP3 but just ahead of Nash. It's always fun trying to rank those 4. They are all pretty close, in my opinion.

I think that's fair, Will. GP was one of my all-time favorites.

[derder]

I think that's fair, Will. GP was one of my all-time favorites.


definitely in my top 50 all-time.

[Cervantes]

I've got him 44th all-time (http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.co.uk/2017/07/100-greatest-players-in-nba-history.html). Behind Kidd and CP3 but just ahead of Nash. It's always fun trying to rank those 4. They are all pretty close, in my opinion.

lol

I made this thread because of your list, Will.

I would have loved to see Paul vs. Payton in their primes.

[Kelper7]

Gary Payton. Hobby forum. This video is obligatory. https://youtu.be/fOhQvwcM_LM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MJGOAT23]

lol

I made this thread because of your list, Will.

I would have loved to see Paul vs. Payton in their primes.

You know what I find interesting, I think CP3 and Kidd were also better based on their overall skills and careers, but at the same time, I bet GP could have cooked them both one on one. Yes, the NBA is a team game and I don't want to derail this with how many people could beat other people just based on size/position even if they were not "better" but find it interesting here as they are all same position.

[6celtics33]

I think he's in the 40s somewhere. It'll always be a logjam with those 4 pg's the way Malone, Barkley, Dirk, and KG are at pf. There is no right order. It's close.

[Rareairx23]

He is ahead of cp3 by far. I dont care who says otherwise. Best defensive guard in nba history

[dasiegel]

1st of all I loved reading the willc list even though my list would be very different. I love how older generations were not penalized.

As for Payton, no doubt the glove was an exciting, tenacious, all around two-way Talent. However to have him top 50 is just way too high in my opinion. He was either 1 or 1 a on those SuperSonics teams. Too many other great players like Dominique Wilkins or Reggie Miller we're clear number 1s. Guys like Bob Mcadoo and other forgotten names were better. I'd also start a team with Willis Reed, Kevin McHale or other great #2 players over him.

Payton imo is not as good as say Jason Kidd, who made every team he played on better even my crappy Knicks!

I think Payton falls somewhere between 70-80.

[MJGOAT23]

He is ahead of cp3 by far. I dont care who says otherwise. Best defensive guard in nba history

MJ was the all time lockdown defender @ guard. Yes, the Glove earned his nickname but I also think his defense was so renowned because it stood out against his B level offense.

[yiguiri2002]

He is ahead of cp3 by far. I dont care who says otherwise. Best defensive guard in nba history

I get ranking him ahead of CP3 but by far? They're pretty close. GP never had as long of a prime as CP3.

Once think that also needs to be taken into consideration: As great as Payton was, he played in the hand-check era. I don't think he will be nearly as great defensively nowadays as he was back then.

[SteveO21]

MJ was the all time lockdown defender @ guard. Yes, the Glove earned his nickname but I also think his defense was so renowned because it stood out against his B level offense.

Prime Glove had "B level" offense?

[MJGOAT23]

Prime Glove had "B level" offense?



Overall yes. He was good, but not a pure scorer like a curry or KD or Iverson type which I'd rank as A level scorers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rareairx23]

MJ was the all time lockdown defender @ guard. Yes, the Glove earned his nickname but I also think his defense was so renowned because it stood out against his B level offense.

How many years did payton average 20+ points per game, 7-8? And that was on pretty efficient shooting as well, like 46% shooting. Payton was hardly B level on offense

[Rareairx23]

I get ranking him ahead of CP3 but by far? They're pretty close. GP never had as long of a prime as CP3.

Once think that also needs to be taken into consideration: As great as Payton was, he played in the hand-check era. I don't think he will be nearly as great defensively nowadays as he was back then.

I dont agree, payton had like a 7 year run of his prime. Imo he was better on offense and defense than paul. And we have to judge them based on how they played in their own eras. I would take payton every time over paul. If it wasnt for jordan, payton would have won a title in seattle. Cant say the same for paul, the guy hasnt even made it to the west finals, let alone the actual finals

[Stifle]

Payton is hilarious to listen to. CP3 isn't ahead of Gary Payton, Kidd is a coin flip with Payton because it's so close. I. Thomas is ahead of the fore mentioned players, Nate Archibald, Bob Cousy and I will throw Dave Bing as a player above CP3.

[Rareairx23]

Payton is hilarious to listen to. CP3 isn't ahead of Gary Payton, Kidd is a coin flip with Payton because it's so close. I. Thomas is ahead of the fore mentioned players, Nate Archibald, Bob Cousy and I will throw Dave Bing as a player above CP3.

This i agree with

[WillC]

Payton is hilarious to listen to. CP3 isn't ahead of Gary Payton, Kidd is a coin flip with Payton because it's so close. I. Thomas is ahead of the fore mentioned players, Nate Archibald, Bob Cousy and I will throw Dave Bing as a player above CP3.

How can you justify Dave Bing above CP3?

You just criticised Paul's lack of playoff success - are you aware of Bing's career?

Meanwhile, compare their awards and CP3 is clearly the greater player of the two, in my opinion.

[Cavaliercards]

Top 50 but in next 10 years I think he will be edged out of it.

[Cervantes]

Overall yes. He was good, but not a pure scorer like a curry or KD or Iverson type which I'd rank as A level scorers.

What does that have to do with anything? Curry's defense is non-existent compared to Payton's, and some feel is sucks, anyways. So, there goes that.

He was a lock-down defender who was a very good offensive player. PPG isn't the deciding factor on if you're an "A or B" level offensive player. He ran that offense beautifully, shot the ball well, and absolutely could score. He had 11 seasons with 19+ on a team full of scorers.

Have you seen his assist totals?

He also took care of the ball; 2 TO per game, compared to Steph's 3.

Sorry, no offense, but if his 'B level' offense hinders his placement, where does that drop Curry (who I am only using as an example because you brought him up, so don't kill me, Steph lovers), with his 'C or D' level defense?



Top 50 but in next 10 years I think he will be edged out of it.

Depending on where he's on some people's list, he will be. That's a good/bad thing. Good, because that means the talent is getting better (?), and we're seeing greatness (?), right? And bad, because it's Gary Payton. :(

[6celtics33]

On one of these all time draft board votes on here my first 3 picks were

Pg: Payton
Sg: Jordan
Sf: Kawhi

I thought it was the greatest defensive force the game would ever see.....

I lost pretty quick, lol

[AbraCalabro]

I don't get into the ranking stuff, debating every minute stat, but I have a lot of love for The Glove. He was part of Seattle's dynamic duo and I'll never forget that.

[Cervantes]

I don't get into the ranking stuff, debating every minute stat, but I have a lot of love for The Glove. He was part of Seattle's dynamic duo and I'll never forget that.

I want basketball back in Seattle so bad. lol

[Stifle]

WillC - Where did I ever critique CP3's lack of playoff success ? That must be a internal defense mechanism that you must have over the course of CP3's career ? If you are talking about the length of Dave Bings career playoff record where 4 teams made the playoffs and 5 teams didn't compared to CP3's current standings where 8 of the 15 teams go to the playoffs then that's your stance.

[jbarnett83]

Bunch of Nash haters. please keep it up maybe his prices will go down:p

[Stifle]

Nash was a stud.

[Cervantes]

WillC - Where did I ever critique CP3's lack of playoff success ? That must be a internal defense mechanism that you must have over the course of CP3's career ? If you are talking about the length of Dave Bings career playoff record where 4 teams made the playoffs and 5 teams didn't compared to CP3's current standings where 8 of the 15 teams go to the playoffs then that's your stance.

Easy there, cowboy, lol; I think he was referencing another poster's comments about Paul not even reaching the Finals. Simple mistake, I would guess.

Imagine if that ''SuperTeam'' had worked in LA? lol


Could you imagine Draymond Green vs. Gary Payton?

lmao that would be must-see (hear) TV.







* I see you edited your post, so n/m. Your current post is way better.

[jjohnson814]

Bunch of Nash haters. please keep it up maybe his prices will go down:p

For real. I already feel like his prices are way too low. 7 seconds or less.

[Cervantes]

What was ''hating'' on Nash?

I must have missed it.

[WillC]

WillC - Where did I ever critique CP3's lack of playoff success ? That must be a internal defense mechanism that you must have over the course of CP3's career ? If you are talking about the length of Dave Bings career playoff record where 4 teams made the playoffs and 5 teams didn't compared to CP3's current standings where 8 of the 15 teams go to the playoffs then that's your stance.

Sorry, it was the person posting before you who criticised Paul's playoff performances.

Still, I struggle to see an argument for choosing Bing over Paul.

[Chain]

I currently got him at 42nd all-time.

[MJGOAT23]

What does that have to do with anything? Curry's defense is non-existent compared to Payton's, and some feel is sucks, anyways. So, there goes that.

He was a lock-down defender who was a very good offensive player. PPG isn't the deciding factor on if you're an "A or B" level offensive player. He ran that offense beautifully, shot the ball well, and absolutely could score. He had 11 seasons with 19+ on a team full of scorers.

Have you seen his assist totals?

He also took care of the ball; 2 TO per game, compared to Steph's 3.

Sorry, no offense, but if his 'B level' offense hinders his placement, where does that drop Curry (who I am only using as an example because you brought him up, so don't kill me, Steph lovers), with his 'C or D' level defense?





Depending on where he's on some people's list, he will be. That's a good/bad thing. Good, because that means the talent is getting better (?), and we're seeing greatness (?), right? And bad, because it's Gary Payton. :(



Maybe B level offense isnt the right term, but I'm not trying to downgrade him or even bring Curry's D into the conversation.....What I'm (trying!) to say is, if guys like Iverson or Carmelo or Curry's offensive games are A's (i.e. akin to a video game ranking for that particular skill) GP's was whatever you want to call the notch below that, and therefore his defense, while great, is almost magnified because it was his best skill. Hopefully that better articulates my point. So while he was an amazing lockdown defender, he wasn't THE BEST lockdown defender, MJ was. ...Just because I'm saying Curry has A level offense, it has nothing to do with his defense or an overall ranking in this comment, i know he plays average D at best, i was just comparing offensive games only to illustrate why GP's defensive perception is magnified. Also, to his credit, I don't care if hand checking was allowed back then, i think he would have adapted to today's game. This isn't a bash GP post, I'm just making an observation.

[goehring9]

Ranking players is so subjective I rarely get into it- but I will say this, GP was certainly top 10 as far as trash talkers goes! Non stop mouth especially while on D

[MJGOAT23]

Ranking players is so subjective I rarely get into it- but I will say this, GP was certainly top 10 as far as trash talkers goes! Non stop mouth especially while on D

agree. trash talking supremacy for sure and i don't know why I ever post non-card related stuff haha...to each their own ..

[Starman101]

I definately put GP above CP3 at least right now anyways

Lights out defense and a fierce competitor

GP remains a very underrated player even today IMO

[AbraCalabro]

I want basketball back in Seattle so bad. lol

You and me both man, believe me on that. :( I wish they would dismantle the abomination that is the BLUNDER and restore what's rightfully Seattle's.

40 and 20 need a place to have their jerseys retired.