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TWard
10-13-2017, 02:21 PM
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up. I try to avoid non-card talk but this is just sheer ridiculousness. I just don't understand this honestly.

Not fair at all. I may be a homer and biased, but it's just amazing to me how Memphis gets all their stuff vacated but UNC, with one of the biggest cheating scandals of all-time, gets off scot-free. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

North Carolina avoided major sanctions after the NCAA could not conclude the school violated academic rules when it made available deficient Department of African and Afro-American Studies "paper courses" to the general student body, including student-athletes.

How and why North Carolina escaped sanctions
North Carolina does not have to give back any basketball national championships. It was not hit with any postseason bans or reductions in scholarships. The Tar Heels, basically, walked away clean and free. It's time to explain how it happened.

NCAA vs. North Carolina: How we got to this point
The NCAA wants to penalize North Carolina over academic matters. UNC says the NCAA has no jurisdiction. The long saga will move to its latest chapter when the NCAA announces its final ruling on Friday. Here's a full rundown of how we got here.
The NCAA said in a release Friday that the committee on infractions found two violations in this case: Former department chairman Julius Nyang'oro and retired office administrator Deborah Crowder failed to cooperate during the investigation. The only sanction connected with the probe is a five-year show cause for Nyang'oro lasting until Oct. 12, 2022. Crowder was not punished, but the NCAA says it is making note of her initial lack of cooperation.

"While student-athletes likely benefited from the so-called 'paper courses' offered by North Carolina, the information available in the record did not establish that the courses were solely created, offered and maintained as an orchestrated effort to benefit student-athletes," said Greg Sankey, the panel's chief hearing officer and commissioner of the Southeastern Conference, in the release. "The panel is troubled by the university's shifting positions about whether academic fraud occurred on its campus and the credibility of the Cadwalader report, which it distanced itself from after initially supporting the findings. However, NCAA policy is clear. The NCAA defers to its member schools to determine whether academic fraud occurred and, ultimately, the panel is bound to making decisions within the rules set by the membership."

The investigation centered on a system in which a significant percentage of student-athletes took classes that had academic irregularities -- and whether that resulted in those athletes receiving an impermissible benefit. The classes were taken by more than 3,100 students -- nearly half of them athletes -- from 1993 to 2011. However, the investigation was focused from 2002-11.

The independent study-style courses came in the Department of African and Afro-American Studies and often required no attendance, as well as grade changes, forged faculty signatures and just one paper at the conclusion of the semester. The athletes were reportedly guided into the classes to help them remain academically eligible.

North Carolina has maintained that the NCAA has no jurisdiction over this academic matter, and has denied that student-athletes received impermissible benefits due to the fact that the classes in question were offered to the entire student body.


Only two people at North Carolina ultimately received NCAA sanctions in the multi-year academic case. Former department chairman Julius Nyang'oro and retired office administrator Deborah Crowder were charged with refusing to cooperate with the NCAA probe. Peyton Williams/UNC via Getty Images
The panel also did not conclude, based on the record before it, that extra benefits were provided to student-athletes. The panel noted the former secretary credibly explained during the hearing that she treated all students the same.

"While student-athletes likely benefited from the courses, so did the general student body," said Sankey. "Additionally, the record did not establish that the university created and offered the courses as part of a systemic effort to benefit only student-athletes."

The Tar Heels won a pair of national titles within the span -- in 2005 and 2009. North Carolina also won a national championship this past season, but that title was never in question.

The NCAA, which had investigated the football program in 2010, reopened a new investigation in June of 2014 and issued the first notice of allegations in May of 2015 -- which included a lack of institutional control and also offering impermissible benefits to athletes. There was a second NOA in April of 2016 in which there was still a lack of institutional control, but no mention of men's basketball or football and also no impermissible benefits charge.

Sankey asked the enforcement staff to look at new information in November of 2016 -- and a third notice of allegations in December of 2016 included both men's basketball and football once again and had UNC facing five top-level charges -- including a lack of institutional control and the initial extra benefit charge. Two other charges pertained to Nyang'oro and Crowder failing to cooperate with the NCAA enforcement staff requests -- violating the NCAA principles of ethical conduct. The final one involved an academic counselor providing extra benefits by way of impermissible academic assistance and special arrangements to women's basketball players from 2003 to 2010.

North Carolina had a two-day hearing in mid-April in Nashville in front of the committee on infractions. Men's basketball coach Roy Williams, women's basketball coach Sylvia Hatchell, football coach Larry Fedora, athletic director Bubba Cunningham and chancellor Carol Folt were all in attendance.


The NCAA began investigating the North Carolina football program back in June of 2010 for impermissible benefits and academic fraud under former coach Butch Davis. The football program received a one-year postseason ban, lost 15 scholarships over a three-year period and also was forced to vacate 15 wins in March of 2012. The school conducted an internal faculty investigation in which it was found that there were issues with 54 classes in the Department of African and Afro-American Studies taught from 2007 to 2011. There was then another review from former North Carolina Gov. Jim Martin who found the sham classes went back to 1997.

North Carolina hired Kenneth Wainstein in February of 2014 to work on an independent investigation into the scandal. It found that former African studies department chairman Nyang'oro and Crowder created bogus classes and enrolled student-athletes to help them remain eligible over a span from 1993 to 2011. Crowder left the university in 2009.

Such a joke.

6celtics33
10-13-2017, 02:35 PM
Tarrrrrrrrrrrrr Heeeeeeeeels

Nyfancam01
10-13-2017, 02:40 PM
Go TAR HEELS! !!!!!
Another national championship while upset haters have to watch UNC SHINE! !!!!!!

HP7163
10-13-2017, 02:40 PM
There's a reason the FBI kept the NCAA in the dark about the basketball investigation. This "story" had been going on for years and is pure trash on the NCAA part. It was obvious UNC would get off. They make the NCAA $$$

The whole "vacate wins" thing is also a complete joke as a "punishment"

bigbov
10-13-2017, 02:47 PM
There's a reason the FBI kept the NCAA in the dark about the basketball investigation. This "story" had been going on for years and is pure trash on the NCAA part. It was obvious UNC would get off. They make the NCAA $$$

The whole "vacate wins" thing is also a complete joke as a "punishment"

I can tell you that up in Syracuse we still think Boeheim has over 1,000 wins :)!

NoleinJax
10-13-2017, 02:55 PM
You're just realizing the NCAA is a joke?

SPauthentic84
10-13-2017, 02:58 PM
If this infuriates you, people are probably going to jail for paying kids money to play basketball while Baylor has no crimes NCAA or Federal against them

JustinVerlander07
10-13-2017, 02:58 PM
Go TAR HEELS! !!!!!
Another national championship while upset haters have to watch UNC SHINE! !!!!!!

:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:

BostonNut
10-13-2017, 02:58 PM
Alright Tar Heels, let's go Tar Heels, please, please, please, please, please, please, please Baby Jesus please, let's go Tar Heels, revenge for last year, please, please, please, please, big defensive stop here, please, please, let's go Tar Heels. (Dog barking wildly) Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!

HP7163
10-13-2017, 03:03 PM
I can tell you that up in Syracuse we still think Boeheim has over 1,000 wins :)!

I saw he re-upped his contract so maybe in 3-4 years Syracuse can do the whole "1000" wins dog & pony show again and be plastered all over ESPN again.. Make the school some more $$ on t-shirts and tickets :)!

HP7163
10-13-2017, 03:07 PM
If this infuriates you, people are probably going to jail for paying kids money to play basketball while Baylor has no crimes NCAA or Federal against them

I don't think it surprises anyone is the point.

Baylor is a ridiculous story and I am still not sure wth happened with that? Then seeing an article about how the woman were "willing rape victims".. Insane

indyguy
10-13-2017, 03:14 PM
Alright Tar Heels, let's go Tar Heels, please, please, please, please, please, please, please Baby Jesus please, let's go Tar Heels, revenge for last year, please, please, please, please, big defensive stop here, please, please, let's go Tar Heels. (Dog barking wildly) Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!

lol...this made my day.

JustinVerlander07
10-13-2017, 03:15 PM
Alright Tar Heels, let's go Tar Heels, please, please, please, please, please, please, please Baby Jesus please, let's go Tar Heels, revenge for last year, please, please, please, please, big defensive stop here, please, please, let's go Tar Heels. (Dog barking wildly) Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!

I hope everyone understands the hilarity of this.

Nyfancam01
10-13-2017, 03:16 PM
I hope everyone understands the hilarity of this.

20K views. Tons of thumbs up and tons of positive comments.

Don't care one bit what any non unc fan thinks! :)

Ferg1945
10-13-2017, 03:44 PM
The NCAA is a joke

/thread

myusasets
10-13-2017, 06:16 PM
go tar heels. stupid ncaa had no case or jurisdiction over academics but wasted millions and years trying to drum something up. thanks for nothing.

BGT Masters
10-13-2017, 06:19 PM
Alright Tar Heels, let's go Tar Heels, please, please, please, please, please, please, please Baby Jesus please, let's go Tar Heels, revenge for last year, please, please, please, please, big defensive stop here, please, please, let's go Tar Heels. (Dog barking wildly) Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God! Oh my God!

Link or didn't happen. :)!

JustinVerlander07
10-13-2017, 06:23 PM
20K views. Tons of thumbs up and tons of positive comments.

Don't care one bit what any non unc fan thinks! :)

I wish you recorded yourself when the Cavs lost in 5 :)!

HP7163
10-13-2017, 06:36 PM
go tar heels. stupid ncaa had no case or jurisdiction over academics but wasted millions and years trying to drum something up. thanks for nothing.

Lol they didnt "try" to do a damn thing.... that's the whole point

JustinVerlander07
10-13-2017, 06:42 PM
go tar heels. stupid ncaa had no case or jurisdiction over academics but wasted millions and years trying to drum something up. thanks for nothing.

https://deadspin.com/this-unc-athletes-paper-is-a-joke-whos-to-blame-1552798110

Yep, nothing to see here.....

Verufian
10-13-2017, 10:49 PM
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up. I try to avoid non-card talk but this is just sheer ridiculousness. I just don't understand this honestly.

Not fair at all. I may be a homer and biased, but it's just amazing to me how Memphis gets all their stuff vacated but UNC, with one of the biggest cheating scandals of all-time, gets off scot-free. It just doesn't make any sense to me.



Such a joke.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/XAxaV.gif

But about the topic, couldn’t agree more with you. They couldn’t prove that the class was created solely to benefit players? How many other schools got in trouble for having cake classes for athletes? Total cop out imo.

bigbov
10-14-2017, 07:01 AM
I saw he re-upped his contract so maybe in 3-4 years Syracuse can do the whole "1000" wins dog & pony show again and be plastered all over ESPN again.. Make the school some more $$ on t-shirts and tickets :)!

His son is an incoming freshman and will be a 4 year player. I'm sure that factored in as well.

codered
10-14-2017, 07:35 AM
http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/XAxaV.gif

But about the topic, couldn’t agree more with you. They couldn’t prove that the class was created solely to benefit players? How many other schools got in trouble for having cake classes for athletes? Total cop out imo.

That's the diabolical beauty of it. The classes, while cake classes, where created for everyone. The entire student body could "benefit" from these joke classes. How can you really stop kids from taking easy classes? If anything this would tarnish UNC's academic reputation but I doubt it will take too much of a hit. I agree though the NCAA is a joke.

Oldschool42
10-14-2017, 07:46 AM
No sh*t the NCAA is a joke. It's a cheap feeder system for the pros. The NBA would be so much better with a minor league system, the young kids get some cash and learn the pro game. D1 student atheletes are a joke. Time for at least the NBA to have three tiers of leagues: A, AA, Pros. Each pro team would support two minor league teams. Baseball and hockey have minor league teams why not the NBA...because they have the NCAA. Pay them all, give them all the sneakers, food, clothes, cars, tattoos, etc. Better yet stop referring to them as amateur's.
Big time college programs are screwing their atheletes by not paying them. Coaches are the highest paid state employees in most states...what a waste of TAXPAYER money. Don't give me the BS line that the "education" they get for "free" is worth big money. How is a one and done player getting educated? Most couldn't get into the college or university on brains alone. It's sad really. If they were a 1/10th slower, a few inches shorter, too fat or skinny, etc where would they be...working a dead end job, gangbanging, addicted to drugs, dead, in jail, etc. That's the truth, they get used and abused until the next big time star emerges.
Look at how many pro atheletes are broke back to square one, just like the guys they schooled on the playground. One big circle of #@#@#@#@. Good thing they have an education to fall back on (heavy sarcasm).

Cervantes
10-14-2017, 09:01 AM
We knew going in that the NCAA had never wrestled with something quite like North Carolina. The length and scope of its wrongdoing, the blatant disregard for the student part of the student-athlete experience and the flaunting of the NCAA’s mission were all unprecedented. But so was the difficulty of fitting this scandal neatly into the kind of bylaw or a violation the NCAA’s enforcement system is designed to punish.

And in the end Friday, as three years of debate about what to do with North Carolina finally concluded, the NCAA simply punted.

Roy Williams can rejoice. The rest of us can laugh.

The NCAA’s history of botching what should be slam-dunk cases against its member schools is long and inglorious, but never has college sports’ governing body looked as impotent as it did Friday.

In a conference call following the NCAA’s announcement that North Carolina would receive no further punishment, Committee on Infractions chairman Greg Sankey acknowledged that so-called “paper classes” in the Department of African and Afro-American Studies department “more likely than not” were used in a systematic way to keep athletes eligible with fraudulent credits.

And yet, when it came time to determine whether nearly two decades of academic fraud to benefit athletes violated of the rules of college sports’ governing body, the NCAA completely deferred to North Carolina’s argument: None of your business.

The No Courage Athletic Association would be more fitting today.

“I think it’s important to understand the panel is in no way supporting what happened,” Sankey said.

Thanks for clarifying that, Greg.

Look, there’s no mistaking that North Carolina’s two-fold argument here was effective. First, the school was adamant that an academic curriculum issue, even a fake class, is one that should be dealt with both internally and through accrediting agencies. Second, no matter how many athletes took the fake classes or benefited from them, they were open to all students and non-athletes benefited from them as well, thus taking traditional NCAA violations off the table.

Though the Committee on Infractions wrote in its final report that it saw the “broad concept” of a scheme to plant athletes in classes that helped keep them on the field, “The record does not establish specific, intentional or systemic efforts tied to athletics motives.”

In other words, the NCAA knows North Carolina made a mockery of college athletics but didn’t have the chutzpah to consider it an extra benefit.

So what was the point?

If this was always the “destination,” to use Sankey’s term, why did the NCAA even get involved in the first place? Why did they make a splashy announcement in the summer of 2014 that the case was going to be re-opened? Why did the enforcement staff pursue this as an extra benefits issue rather than a more global focus on North Carolina violating the core principles of the NCAA? Why was so much time and money wasted on both sides to have the NCAA basically shrug its shoulders? And why shouldn’t schools now be empowered to create fake classes, fill them with athletes who are struggling academically, and say it’s OK as long as they can get a few regular students to also participate?

Maybe the problem is us. Maybe it’s the straightforward reality that the bureaucratic, wonkish NCAA isn’t what people want it to be.

The organization, it seems, is still reeling in so many ways from the Penn State scandal in which it went outside its own enforcement process to punish the football program, then walked back many of the sanctions as the outcry both within and outside college sports grew about the NCAA overstepping its jurisdiction.

What’s too much NCAA involvement in what happens on a campus? What’s too little?

There are things that feel big and important like North Carolina committing academic fraud and Baylor ignoring a massive sexual assault problem in its football program that the NCAA membership obviously can’t come to grips with from a rules standpoint.

And then there are issues clearly within its jurisdiction — like college basketball programs leveraging relationships with shoe companies to buy recruits — that it doesn’t have the investigative power to tackle.

The NCAA will get the brunt of the blame here, as it always does, but in the end it’s just a building in Indianapolis filled with people hired to carry out the wishes of the member schools.

College presidents are the ones who decide the limits of the NCAA’s reach, how much power and funding its investigative arm is given and whether it’s worthwhile to keep fighting for an archaic system of “amateurism” in which the NCAA’s members can say they aren’t a pro sports league because scholarships are tied to education.

North Carolina violated that link in a blatant, disgusting manner, banking millions of dollars off the pristine brand of UNC while flouting the promise they made to educate the athletes they were recruiting. And it did it for many years, across many sports.

The NCAA’s mandate with North Carolina should have been to reaffirm how much the relationship between academics and athletics still matters. Instead, it just shrugged. If college sports is going to give up on the college part, maybe we should, too.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2017/10/13/ncaa-has-never-seemed-so-impotent-after-decision-north-carolina-academic-scandal/761563001/




This is not ''hate''; these are facts. UNC's defense was "...everyone was doing it'' and ''you can't tell us how to run our fake classes''

The vast, vast majority of people who are NOT UNC fans know this is wrong, and UNC deserved to be punished, but for people like some on these boards, it's not a big deal, because they just want to be able to brag about a Championship they didn't win. No biggie.

Gary Parrish ✔@GaryParrishCBS
Dear boosters: Go pay players and members of the “general student body,” then use the defense that it didn’t benefit only student-athletes. https://twitter.com/NCAA/status/918839189436813312 …
8:10 AM - Oct 13, 2017


Matt Norlander ✔@MattNorlander
Long story way short: Big pic, UNC needs to get sanctioned. NCAA crippled by its own borders and rulebook language, didn’t want to overstep.
8:21 AM - Oct 13, 2017

Nicole Auerbach ✔@NicoleAuerbach
Does the NCAA still want us to call ‘em STUDENT-athletes or nah?
8:27 AM - Oct 13, 2017

Stewart Mandel ✔@slmandel
In the biggest academic fraud case in NCAA history, UNC successfully convinced Committee on Infractions that none of it violated NCAA rules
8:05 AM - Oct 13, 2017

Well, guess Cam will hate Dickie V now.

Dick Vitale ✔@DickieV
UNREAL @NCAA reports that @GoHeels athletes most likely took phony classes but can’t conclude that there were any violations.Embarrassing
9:22 AM - Oct 13, 2017



There's really no 'defense' from UNC supporters, just ''yeah haters we didn't get caught suck it dudes...''

While some kid at NC State is ruled ineligible for actually going to class.

Stay classy (and corrupt) uNCAA.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMBxzBIUMAEve9U.jpg

codered
10-14-2017, 08:25 PM
What’s too much NCAA involvement in what happens on a campus? What’s too little?

There are things that feel big and important like North Carolina committing academic fraud and Baylor ignoring a massive sexual assault problem in its football program that the NCAA membership obviously can’t come to grips with from a rules standpoint.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/college/columnist/dan-wolken/2017/10/13/ncaa-has-never-seemed-so-impotent-after-decision-north-carolina-academic-scandal/761563001/




This is not ''hate''; these are facts. UNC's defense was "...everyone was doing it'' and ''you can't tell us how to run our fake classes''



The writer loses absolutely all credibility to his argument by grouping academic fraud with sexual assault. That's reaching extremely far and extremely disrespectful to victims of sexual assault.

The defense wasn't "everyone one is doing it", it was "you don't get to tell us how we run our academic program. While student athletes are involved in these easy classes, they are classes offered to all students therefore, no jurisdiction. Thank you." There is nothing the NCAA can do about athletes taking easy classes and that's just the plain and simple. If the classes were created for and attended only by athletes there would have been a case. Unfortunately they couldn't prove that. Did UNC pull a fast one? You bet they did but the way the rules are written it was allowed. UNC exploited a loophole.

It's easy to see that most of the negative reactions is hate toward UNC. Hate should be directed towards the NCAA for not adjusting to the times. The whole system of student athletes, especially when it comes to basketball and football, needs to be revisited and evaluated. There is billions of dollars at stake now. It doesn't work anymore. It's archaic

purejd86p
10-14-2017, 08:39 PM
The writer loses absolutely all credibility to his argument by grouping academic fraud with sexual assault. That's reaching extremely far and extremely disrespectful to victims of sexual assault.

The defense wasn't "everyone one is doing it", it was "you don't get to tell us how we run our academic program. While student athletes are involved in these easy classes, they are classes offered to all students therefore, no jurisdiction. Thank you." There is nothing the NCAA can do about athletes taking easy classes and that's just the plain and simple. If the classes were created for and attended only by athletes there would have been a case. Unfortunately they couldn't prove that. Did UNC pull a fast one? You bet they did but the way the rules are written it was allowed. UNC exploited a loophole.

It's easy to see that most of the negative reactions is hate toward UNC. Hate should be directed towards the NCAA for not adjusting to the times. The whole system of student athletes, especially when it comes to basketball and football, needs to be revisited and evaluated. There is billions of dollars at stake now. It doesn't work anymore. It's archaic

Spot-on!

buckunteer
10-14-2017, 10:24 PM
LOL at that NCAA logo with the UNC logo in it. Well-played photoshoppers of the interwebs, well-played indeed.

Cervantes
10-15-2017, 12:10 AM
Spot-on!

I agree, 100%.

Jwhoops
10-15-2017, 11:21 AM
Funny how the guy linking to all the non-unc reactions forgot to link the reactions of people like jay bilas, Mike decourcey and mark Titus. Are they unc fans?

There was clear cut precedent for how this was going to turn out (Michigan, auburn), it does matter that every school in the country does it but most schools don't have a rival fan base so pathetic they are willing to foia every single email ever sent by the athletic department, and the fans who are pretending to care about academics here but really are only concerned about their program getting a leg up...well, you get precisely what you deserve. Go pound sand. GDTBAH

SPauthentic84
10-15-2017, 12:51 PM
As a Duke fan...

Its so annoying NCAA spends 3 years on something this stupid. 3 years?! If UNC wants to have these classes where all students can take it, go for it. I took a bunch of gym classes to booster my GPA. This is no different.

....Then there is Baylor....you know, where there are actual crimes taking place

Its infuriating to see the inconsistency time and time again by the NCAA

...I really dont know why the power 5 conferences dont leave the NCAA and create their own governing body.

I only pull for
10-15-2017, 02:04 PM
This was a sad pathetic attempt by the NCAA to try and dig up garbage on one of the cleanest programs in the country.