Interesting Issue...8 out of 5 Red Refractors???

[pack9001]

So I was contacted by a member here that his friend was also a Roy Oswalt collector and would probably move parts of his collection if we came to an agreement.

I contacted him and he gave me a few examples of some nice cards he had - which included what he said was "seven (7) 2007 Bowman Chrome red refractors".

I was confused as I have one of the Red Refractors (serial #'d 2/5) so how could he have 7 out of 5, including a dupe of mine? I asked him for a picture and below is what he sent me.

Long story short (too late) - are these some of the "backdoored" refractors, just with serial numbering? i have seen red refractors out there with no numbering, so I'm a bit confused.

("backdoored" - I giggled :cry: )

Thank you for any help anyone can offer.

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/807/40919648271_a9ccc900cd_b.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/784/40919648161_51fdf162b7_b.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/821/40919648091_086883741a_b.jpg

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/799/40919647941_2a6372e732_b.jpg

[NeedChapmans]

I can provide no help. Back-doored refractors are usually miscut and/or are missing serial numbers. Those all look great.

A must own IMHO.

[vwnut13]

If I recall correctly, there were 5 Red Refractors in Hobby, and 5 Red Refractors in Retail.

[3124508 on COMC]

Looks like two runs got out somehow. The second run was serial numbered by Topps, but who really knows how they got out. If I had to guess, I'd probably say that they were all inserted in packs.

[cnewby]

No clue on numbering but whats with the similar price tags but varying prices?

[3124508 on COMC]

If I recall correctly, there were 5 Red Refractors in Hobby, and 5 Red Refractors in Retail.

Not if the insertion ratios below are right or unless they made orange refractors in both as well.

http://www.baseballcardpedia.com/index.php/2007_Bowman_Chrome

No clue on numbering but whats with the similar price tags but varying prices?

Probably how much he paid for them?

[pack9001]

I can provide no help. Back-doored refractors are usually miscut and/or are missing serial numbers. Those all look great.

A must own IMHO.

I'm definitely working on getting them from him. While it may be a weird case, the cards themselves are awesome looking. I love the red refractors.

If I recall correctly, there were 5 Red Refractors in Hobby, and 5 Red Refractors in Retail.

I didn't realize this. If that's the case, then it makes way more sense than it did before, lol.

Looks like two runs got out somehow. The second run was serial numbered by Topps, but who really knows how they got out. If I had to guess, I'd probably say that they were all inserted in packs.

Wouldn't surprise me with Topps, honestly.

No clue on numbering but whats with the similar price tags but varying prices?

As 312 said, I am assuming he purchased these from different dealers at different times and that's just his price on them. I am also trying to take a Bowman Red 1/1 from him and I think we are a good price for all the cards. I was just curious about these.

Thank you everyone for your input!!!

[mcgoo2]

If I recall correctly, there were 5 Red Refractors in Hobby, and 5 Red Refractors in Retail.

This is what I recall as well from when the product came out.

[unclemonkey]

The hobby vs Retail makes no sense to me.

Is it not the same product?

[smapdi]

Retail and hobby was the same, but someone at the plant didn't get the memo. Theories include hobby v retail, test printings accidentally getting packed out, and replacements getting packed out. There have been a couple different collectors showing 6-7 red refractors, but this is the first I'm hearing of 8.

[unclemonkey]

Just playing devil's advocate.

If I owned... say #3/5 and sent if off to PSA...

What would be the action if somebody sent in the other #3/5 to PSA?

Or... sent it to BGS?

What if this were Judge or Trout?

Neat but troublesome thread.

[Scottish Punk]

Just playing devil's advocate.

If I owned... say #3/5 and sent if off to PSA...

What would be the action if somebody sent in the other #3/5 to PSA?

Or... sent it to BGS?

What if this were Judge or Trout?

Neat but troublesome thread.

PSA and BGS don't keep track of numbered items. They would just put on the flip whatever the card was and move on. Would be interesting if these ever got part of a registry fight.

[pack9001]

If i end up purchasing these from the seller, I may grade two of the duplicates with the same company just to see what is done. I kind of agree with Scottish that unless the same grader has both cards at the same time (not sure how this is done), then no one at the company would catch it during the grading process.

[redsandbengals]

Just playing devil's advocate.

If I owned... say #3/5 and sent if off to PSA...

What would be the action if somebody sent in the other #3/5 to PSA?

Or... sent it to BGS?

What if this were Judge or Trout?

Neat but troublesome thread.

If these were Judge red refractors, this forum would become unhinged.

[NickM]

There was a Beckett article about it at the time IIRC. There were apparently 2 produced of each serial number.

[Soxrule111]

I believe they had two issues printed. One for Retail and one in hobby. Beckett did have an article on this at the time as well.

I dont think the autos were impacted though, just vets and rookies.

[pack9001]

Wish I could find this Beckett article but thank you for your input! Strange to do it that way, but this is Topps we're talking about.

[Soxrule111]

Wish I could find this Beckett article but thank you for your input! Strange to do it that way, but this is Topps we're talking about.

I honestly believe it was an accident/mistake. They also messed up I think 2007 Topps Moments and Milestone Reds or blues on rookies only.

[pack9001]

I honestly believe it was an accident/mistake. They also messed up I think 2007 Topps Moments and Milestone Reds or blues on rookies only.

Ah ok - thank you for clarifying.

[TomRacer]

If i end up purchasing these from the seller, I may grade two of the duplicates with the same company just to see what is done. I kind of agree with Scottish that unless the same grader has both cards at the same time (not sure how this is done), then no one at the company would catch it during the grading process.

I sent my duplicate 1/1’s together to Beckett and expected them to somehow recognize them as duplicates but they didn’t even though the flips are sequentially numbered.

[blaze]

Yes, Beckett did an article on the set, they were double printed and both runs were inserted into the packs. I had 8 or 9 of the Alexi Casillas at one point.

I know BGS/PSA do not keep track of serial numbers, but at least PSA questioned me when I cracked and resent a 1/1 in since they had already graded it.

[hornedfrog1985]

Finish the set! 1/1/5 1/2/5 1/3/5

[harper34nats]

Throw 2 of them away LOL

[IronMonkey415]

You need GOO GONE to get rid of the price stickers residue.

[pack9001]

Finish the set! 1/1/5 1/2/5 1/3/5

Interesting idea...lol...

[JWBlue]

Topps : :doh:

[superdan49]

PSA and BGS don't keep track of numbered items. They would just put on the flip whatever the card was and move on. Would be interesting if these ever got part of a registry fight.

The exception here is 1/1s. PSA will not grade the same 1/1 twice, whereas BGS (to my knowledge) will do so.

[pack9001]

Made the deal and got them in hand! Thank you to everyone for your input!!!

Now I just need the other 1/5 and 5/5!!!

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/884/40190201865_725e61441d_b.jpg

[tkraft24]

Very cool, congrats on the pickup

[unclemonkey]

Really neat... I just love the color red