What is the Modern Day Premium "Non-Auto" Rookie?

[WHyFLy]

I've been wondering about this question, "What's the modern day premium "Non-Auto" Rookie to get?" I'm not talking about 1st Bowman Chrome as we all know that is the first true rookie, but for players who reach the bigs and endure the "Rookie" year. Would it be Flagship? Would it be Heritage? Topps Chrome?

What are your thoughts? If you could get 1 and only 1 rookie for your collection, which set would it be?

In comparison, in basketball the premium RC to have is "Prizm Silver" and in Hockey it is "Upper Deck Young Guns". So what is Baseball's?

Here to make it easier, if you had the option to take 1 of these, which would you take?

Flagship SSP Variation
Flagship Black Parallel /6x
Heritage Solo Rookie
Topps Chrome Gold Refractor /50

[JWBlue]

Heritage. Flagship Black.

[WHyFLy]

Heritage. Flagship Black.

So which one would be considered higher in the spectrum?

[BH34]

I think it's the 'first true rookie' would be the first flagship, pack inserted base card.
I think the 'non auto rookie to get' is either the Heritage RC (assuming solo, not dual), or the flagship SSP/SP/parallels (ie. Black #d)

Topps Chrome looks nice, but at best it's third for me.
I can't think of a player who I'd rather have their TC rookie over flagship or heritage.

[BH34]

Heritage. Flagship Black.

So which one would be considered higher in the spectrum?

There's no easy answer to this.. though I'm sure everyone has their preference.

Would more people rather own the Judge Heritage Sp or the Judge Flagship black, or the dugout SSP, if they could own just one and never the others?

[ThoseBackPages]

Heritage Action

[WHyFLy]

I think it's the 'first true rookie' would be the first flagship, pack inserted base card.
I think the 'non auto rookie to get' is either the Heritage RC (assuming solo, not dual), or the flagship SSP/SP/parallels (ie. Black #d)

Topps Chrome looks nice, but at best it's third for me.
I can't think of a player who I'd rather have their TC rookie over flagship or heritage.

That's an interesting take as I mentioned above, Silver Prizm has a massive leap from its competitor in Optic (though some argue but majority disagree). So you would say that either the Heritage SP or the Flagship SP Variations/Black Border is what you want and it's really a tie between them?

So for instance if there was no Heritage Action Rookie? Would you then go for the Flagship SP Variation?

So what do you prefer?

[WHyFLy]

Heritage Action

Interesting, so what about those who do not own an Action in Heritage?

[Darth Bryzzo]

My personal preference would always be Heritage.

[WHyFLy]

My personal preference would always be Heritage.

Interesting, so would this include the dual rookies in heritage or just Action Variation?

[Rjk214]

Everyone is different..

I prefer Topps Chrome over Heritage personally

[Yaga]

Topps Chrome refractor for me

[dbpsooner]

I think it's the 'first true rookie' would be the first flagship, pack inserted base card.
I think the 'non auto rookie to get' is either the Heritage RC (assuming solo, not dual), or the flagship SSP/SP/parallels (ie. Black #d)

Topps Chrome looks nice, but at best it's third for me.
I can't think of a player who I'd rather have their TC rookie over flagship or heritage.

I agree with this for the most part. I especially love the parallels in flagship, especially in years where there are borders. If talking no parallels, for me the base card is between the flagship and heritage but it all depends on that particular year's design.

[ThoseBackPages]

Interesting, so what about those who do not own an Action in Heritage?

Then i have to know which products he is in.

between Low and High #, Topps really covers Heritage the last 4 years

[VeedonFleece]

I'm not talking about 1st Bowman Chrome as we all know that is the first true rookie

I hope we don't all 'know' this.

[Stech36]

There's no easy answer to this.. though I'm sure everyone has their preference.

Would more people rather own the Judge Heritage Sp or the Judge Flagship black, if they could own just one and never the other?

For Judge I think it’s Heritage.

For others I think it just depends. It can be random. But if the player is in series 1 then that card is not rare and easily accessible. If it’s in Update it’s rarer and more desirable.

If we’re talking big names:
Trout: 2011 Topps Update (no Heritage, Chrome, or Archives rookie)

Bryant: 2015 Series 2, but Heritage SP is more desirable. And the Archves Base SSP is by far the most expensive/desirable.

Bellinger: I would say heritage but it’s kind of yet to be known. It might end up being the 2017 Topps Update Chrome. It’s still base, but I’m thinking it’s pretty rare in comparison to his other base rookies.

Correa: 2015 Heritage High Number Base.

Judge: Topps Archives, but partially because it’s hard to get a high grade, but his solo heritage SP is more desirable.

Harper: Heritage is a base but pretty rare. After that you have his series 2 SSP and his update rookie debut.

Altuve: 2011 Update (no Heritage, Chrome, or Archives rookie)

Benintendi: Series 1 or Chrome, but his solo heritage SP is more desirable.

Corey Seager: Topps Chrome IMO, but solo heritage SP is more desirable.


Basically, it’s really complicated. Generally it’s always going to come from Heritage, Flagship, Chrome, or, to a lesser extent, Archives.

[WHyFLy]

I agree with this for the most part. I especially love the parallels in flagship, especially in years where there are borders. If talking no parallels, for me the base card is between the flagship and heritage but it all depends on that particular year's design.

So what I am gathering from the responses is there is not really any community set rookie that trumps all others like in Basketball/Hockey... So it's really a split between 2 products and all depends on what they have available and design.

For instance, if Heritage Action was available for a player, then that would be preferred in most cases; however, if there was no Action, Black Parallel Flagship would take the cake in most circumstances.

[Darth Bryzzo]

Interesting, so would this include the dual rookies in heritage or just Action Variation?

Fair question. I didn’t have that distinction firmly in mind when I answered.

So, in those cases where a player is on a dual Future Stars Card, I’d get that, but for these purposes, would be more thinking of the standalone Heritage card, whether an “Action” version in main Heritage or an individual card in Heritage HN.

[WHyFLy]

Then i have to know which products he is in.

between Low and High #, Topps really covers Heritage the last 4 years

Like for instance let's talk about a Braves player whose been introduced in this years products, Ozzie Albies. A solid player overall with massive potential as he has shown. Heritage for instance does not provide a Single Rookie for him but a dual with Lucas Sims. Is Flagship would then be considered more desirable making it the premier rookie for him correct?

[ThoseBackPages]

Like for instance let's talk about a Braves player whose been introduced in this years products, Ozzie Albies. A solid player overall with massive potential as he has shown. Heritage for instance does not provide a Single Rookie for him but a dual with Lucas Sims. Is Flagship would then be considered more desirable making it the premier rookie for him correct?

if he performs well, he will have an action in High Number

if he is not in Heritage High Number.... Possibly

Archives if its an SP
Topps Chrome

i would steer clear of Flagship, because of Factory Sets

[WHyFLy]

Fair question. I didn’t have that distinction firmly in mind when I answered.

So, in those cases where a player is on a dual Future Stars Card, I’d get that, but for these purposes, would be more thinking of the standalone Heritage card, whether an “Action” version in main Heritage or an individual card in Heritage HN.

Interesting, so you are stating even with the dual rookies you would prefer that over Flagship.

[WHyFLy]

if he performs well, he will have an action in High Number

if he is not in Heritage High Number.... Possibly

Archives if its an SP
Topps Chrome

i would steer clear of Flagship, because of Factory Sets

Okay so here you are stating to wait until the full performance of the player and see if he gets an Action parallel. If that's the case grab that player, if that player does not perform on that level, then Flagship Black or Chrome Refractor may be what one should get?

Also when do they release High Numbers for Heritage?

[LCM1223]

Update?

Even if a RC's Heritage would outsell Update regularly, I'd still go Update

[Darth Bryzzo]

Interesting, so you are stating even with the dual rookies you would prefer that over Flagship.

If the dual rookie was the only Heritage option for a given player, then Flagship and/or Flagship Chrome would be next on my list, probably.

But here’s the thing: If it was a player I wanted to PC, I’d buy all of them, and probably would worry overly much which one the hobby viewed as “most desirable.” So long as I wasn’t stupidly overpaying for something in light of prevailing market, I would be most concerned with which one(s) I personally found most desirable from an aesthetic enjoyment standpoint.

[WHyFLy]

Update?

Even if a RC's Heritage would outsell Update regularly, I'd still go Update

Well wouldn't update be a select handful of players? I can understand that if those players did not have rookies in Heritage or what not, but say someone who is printed in Flagship Series 1 or 2.

[ThoseBackPages]

Okay so here you are stating to wait until the full performance of the player and see if he gets an Action parallel. If that's the case grab that player, if that player does not perform on that level, then Flagship Black or Chrome Refractor may be what one should get?

Also when do they release High Numbers for Heritage?

there are billions of Chrome colors now lol, so probably gold

High Numbers will be out Sep/Oct

[BH34]

That's an interesting take as I mentioned above, Silver Prizm has a massive leap from its competitor in Optic (though some argue but majority disagree). So you would say that either the Heritage SP or the Flagship SP Variations/Black Border is what you want and it's really a tie between them?

So for instance if there was no Heritage Action Rookie? Would you then go for the Flagship SP Variation?

So what do you prefer?

the easy answer is both, or all of them, lol.

-If the only heritage rookie was a dual (or no Heritage RC exists), I would go with flagship black (Ie. Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo).
-If Heritage has just a regular solo RC that is not really SP (Ie Jacob Degrom), I'd go with flagship SSP (if exists), or flagship black first.
-If Heritage has both an action/soloSP RC and a dual RC, I would choose the action/solo RC (Ie. Judge, Amed Rosario), then flagship SSP (if exists), then flagship black, then flagship SP.
-If Heritage has solo and action, I'd choose action (Ie. Syndergaard, Kris Bryant), then flagship SSP (if exists), then flagship black, then Heritage solo RC, then flagship SP.

If I can only own one and only one, I'd generally lean heritage first for key RCs because of its classic design. I feel like it has, and will stand the test of time. But if the Heritage RC is nothing special, then I'd try to get the SSP/Black flagship.

[WHyFLy]

If the dual rookie was the only Heritage option for a given player, then Flagship and/or Flagship Chrome would be next on my list, probably.

But here’s the thing: If it was a player I wanted to PC, I’d buy all of them, and probably would worry overly much which one the hobby viewed as “most desirable.” So long as I wasn’t stupidly overpaying for something in light of prevailing market, I would be most concerned with which one(s) I personally found most desirable from an aesthetic enjoyment standpoint.

Well of course, but for me Baseball isn't something I usually strive for. I do want to pick up a rookie of Ozzie Albies, but I do not want to pick up anything but his top non-auto rookie (Excluding very very very low-numbered parallels). It's something I would want in my collection, but not one where I want to get all his rookies if you know what I mean.

I was told about Heritage High Numbers, when does this release?

[ThoseBackPages]

yea OP, you're gonna have to wait, as 2018 products are just being released

[bradical]

Topps Black parallels.

They sell for buckets of money, graded for even more because they are condition sensitive, and they are serial numbered.

[WHyFLy]

the easy answer is both, or all of them, lol.

-If the only heritage rookie was a dual (or no Heritage RC exists), I would go with flagship black (Ie. Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo).
-If Heritage has just a regular solo RC that is not really SP (Ie Jacob Degrom), I'd go with flagship SSP (if exists), or flagship black first.
-If Heritage has both an action/soloSP RC and a dual RC, I would choose the action/solo RC (Ie. Judge, Amed Rosario), then flagship SSP (if exists), then flagship black, then flagship SP.
-If Heritage has solo and action, I'd choose action (Ie. Syndergaard, Kris Bryant), then flagship SSP (if exists), then flagship black, then Heritage solo RC, then flagship SP.

If I can only own one and only one, I'd generally lean heritage first for key RCs because of its classic design. I feel like it has, and will stand the test of time. But if the Heritage RC is nothing special, then I'd try to get the SSP/Black flagship.

That break down makes it a lot easier, so would you prefer going with the SSP or Black for Flagship?

[WHyFLy]

Topps Black parallels.

They sell for buckets of money, graded for even more because they are condition sensitive, and they are serial numbered.

Would you prefer going for Black or if available SSP Variations?

[BH34]

Would you prefer going for Black or if available SSP Variations?

No hard and fast rule.. I would go by scarcity, picture, and price.

If there is a big scarcity difference, I'd prefer the more rare one.
If there is no difference, or I can't tell the difference in scarcity, then:
If I like the SSP picture, then definitely SSP.
If I don't like the SSP picture, or if I like the regular picture better than SSP picture, then black parallel.
Then, of course price matters also. If one costs significantly more than the other and I can't afford it, then I'll just settle for the other one.

[corockies]

Would you prefer going for Black or if available SSP Variations?

I prefer blacks, simply because they are serial #ed so you know exactly how many are out there. SP/SSP you never know the actual print run - only that they are (supposedly) rare. Who knows if Topps is holding back copies of non-serial #ed cards that are viewed as rare only to dump then into the market over the 20+ years in re-pack products? At least with Topps Blacks you know the exact print run.

[ThoseBackPages]

I prefer blacks, simply because they are serial #ed so you know exactly how many are out there. SP/SSP you never know the actual print run - only that they are (supposedly) rare. Who knows if Topps is holding back copies of non-serial #ed cards that are viewed as rare only to dump then into the market over the 20+ years in re-pack products? At least with Topps Blacks you know the exact print run.

unless they print extra blacks lol

[WHyFLy]

So I basically edited the OP. What I am down to is basically these 4 options:

Black Flagship /6x
SSP Variation Flagship
Solo Heritage
Gold Refractor Topps Chrome /50

If you had 1 option, prices were similar on all 4, what would you go with?

[ThoseBackPages]

So I basically edited the OP. What I am down to is basically these 4 options:

Black Flagship /6x
SSP Variation Flagship
Solo Heritage
Gold Refractor Topps Chrome /50

If you had 1 option, prices were similar on all 4, what would you go with?

PSA 10 Black

[REGGIE206]

For Judge I think it’s Heritage.

For others I think it just depends. It can be random. But if the player is in series 1 then that card is not rare and easily accessible. If it’s in Update it’s rarer and more desirable.

If we’re talking big names:
Trout: 2011 Topps Update (no Heritage, Chrome, or Archives rookie)

Bryant: 2015 Series 2, but Heritage SP is more desirable. And the Archves Base SSP is by far the most expensive/desirable.

Bellinger: I would say heritage but it’s kind of yet to be known. It might end up being the 2017 Topps Update Chrome. It’s still base, but I’m thinking it’s pretty rare in comparison to his other base rookies.

Correa: 2015 Heritage High Number Base.

Judge: Topps Archives, but partially because it’s hard to get a high grade, but his solo heritage SP is more desirable.

Harper: Heritage is a base but pretty rare. After that you have his series 2 SSP and his update rookie debut.

Altuve: 2011 Update (no Heritage, Chrome, or Archives rookie)

Benintendi: Series 1 or Chrome, but his solo heritage SP is more desirable.

Corey Seager: Topps Chrome IMO, but solo heritage SP is more desirable.


Basically, it’s really complicated. Generally it’s always going to come from Heritage, Flagship, Chrome, or, to a lesser extent, Archives.

This :)!

[WHyFLy]

PSA 10 Black

Alright, thank you. Are Black's harder to grade from this year? Noticed you have a bit of experience with grading rookies.

[ThoseBackPages]

Alright, thank you. Are Black's harder to grade from this year? Noticed you have a bit of experience with grading rookies.

i wouldnt say they're more difficult, may be easier this year especially since the card is borderless

[WillBBC]

I shat all over the idea of the RC logo for years but have come to really adore it.

That being said--I vote for Heritage action/solo variations followed closely by Heritage Black Refractors.

If they don't have either, flagship blacks always look stellar.

[rngrdanny22]

Correa: 2015 Heritage High Number Base.




I could argue the Update 174 will be on par with this one. A toss-up really.

[bobthewondercat]

Topps black until 2016 / 17 / 18 bc these last 3 years look horrible (this year worst of all imo)

Heritage since then.

[Darth Bryzzo]

I think Stech36 makes a lot of good points, and ably demonstrates how the answer to this question is highly dependent on player and year and when that player hit the majors and started having RCs in light of the annual product cycle. Collector esteem for various products also undulates over time, so not all years of a given line like Flagship or Heritage are viewed similarly down the road.

I totally agree with what Stech36 said about Kris Bryant cards, as an example. A lot of folks would probably most readily think of his Series 2 Flagship or Heritage HN RCs. But his Archives SSP is by far the most coveted and expensive non-auto RC (and it is important to emphasize we are talking non-Auto base cards here, as that makes a huge difference in terms of relative values and desirability).

I’m most familiar with BGS gem graded values, so I will give those for the Bryant cards for illustrative purposes. Assuming a BGS 9.5 with quad 9.5 subs, here’s about what you could expect to pay for the three Bryant RC contenders:

Series 2 Flagship: $40ish
Heritage HN: $65-75
Archives SSP: $700-800

It’s really not very easy or really sensible to discuss this question in the abstract, because you can’t come up with a general rule that doesn’t have tons of important exceptions. Best to approach this player by player, if you don’t want to guess wrong based on a general rule that totally doesn’t apply to a particular player of interest.

[rseve43]

Here’s a vote for Topps Chrome Gold Ref #/50 RC Logo

[Sinoth23]

Topps Chrome looks nice, but at best it's third for me.
I can't think of a player who I'd rather have their TC rookie over flagship or heritage.

Gary Sanchez 2016 TC (Gold)

[Mister2Bits]

I love Heritage, but I think I prefer Flagship Black in PSA holder.

Tough card to pull
Very condition sensitive
Great design appeal

[corockies]

I'll throw an overlooked RC into this mix. Stadium Club made it's return in 2014 and it has great photography coupled with a super rare rainbow parallel /25. I've been adding the /25 RC versions of numerous players to my collection, and I'd put them on par with Topps Black RCs even though they are rarer. Topps also brought back Stadium Club Chrome in 2017, and it has some nice RCs in it, but technically it's an insert set.

[CubKings]

I'm a Chrome boy, so I always love base Topps Chrome RCs the most.

I like regular Topps as well. Stadium Club usually looks cool, too.