Possible Scam.. Seek Advice

[leewei]

I recently sold 3 cases of National Treasures FOTL through ebay. First two transactions went smoothly with positive FB given. Just received a return request for the 3rd case. Buyer Comment provided:

"The case was advertised as Sealed . The seal on the bottom is broken and you can see the cut then taped over. I m not keeping this because it s not factory sealed."

So the way these cases were shipped by Panini, they added a second layer of packing tape with the "STOP If Seal is Broken Check Contents Before Accepting." Based on the buyer photo it looks like that seal was cut and a third layer applied.

Buyer is a relatively new ebay member (since AUG-17) with 50 or so positive FB. I see they have for sale multiple FOTL /13 RPAs (more than 3)... I accepted the return as at this point as I don't believe I can take any other actions until i have the contents back in my possession. I also purchased Fedex insurance for this specific shipment (less than auction price). I've never dealt with filing an insurance claim so anything else you guys can think of that I missed? Any suggestions and/or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Archangel1775]

You cant do anything except take the return and go from there. eBay will side with the buyer at this point, refund them their money and take away your final value fees on top of it. The hard part is proving this was sealed prior to shipping it out. Good luck and I hate to be in your shoes.

[JWBlue]

Maybe the postal service put the tape on it after it opened.

[ucLAkers]

Can’t really do anything until you get it back and see for yourself. But for sure get a video of you opening the return.

Also....eBay item# and buyer ID....dont be shy.

[leewei]

Thanks for the responses all!

Maybe the postal service put the tape on it after it opened.

Nah, I shipped double boxed via Fedex. Photo was showing the actual inner case being tampered with.

[leewei]

Can’t really do anything until you get it back and see for yourself. But for sure get a video of you opening the return.

Also....eBay item# and buyer ID....dont be shy.

Definitely not afraid to put this person on full blast. But will wait to receive the item back first and check the contents.

[leewei]

Given the value of the contents and the sale price ($3K+), worst case scenario, would anyone advise in filing a police report? Again this would be new to me, just looking at all options at this point. Thanks!

[bojesphob]

If he's selling cards that could be from the case and the case was tampered with and contents are missing from the box, I wonder if you can do something with that so they would have to show where they got those cards. They're pretty rare, so he either had to buy them on eBay or take them out of your case (or from another case he opened, but he would have record of that too)

[hockeyguyrich]

You can't prove what cards were in the boxes so I doubt police will do anything and since you put your own tape over it I think your screwed

[shrevecity]

Can’t really do anything until you get it back and see for yourself. But for sure get a video of you opening the return.

Also....eBay item# and buyer ID....dont be shy.

Video will not prove anything either. Video is easy to manipulate.

Somoene mentioned Ebay will take your fees, if they open a claim and you willingly refund your fees are refunded automatically if they are not then you should call Ebay.

Insurance will be most likely be voided once the item is returned to you.

[Lothar52]

could he have opened cards from each case until he got a specific "case hit" then not opened the rest??? then put the unopened boxes after the 3 case hits back into 3rd case claiming it wasn't sealed? So he gets 3 case hits for the price of 2????

[shrevecity]

could he have opened cards from each case until he got a specific "case hit" then not opened the rest??? then put the unopened boxes after the 3 case hits back into 3rd case claiming it wasn't sealed? So he gets 3 case hits for the price of 2????

Its possible, but again trying to actually prove that would be pretty much impossible.

[leewei]

You can't prove what cards were in the boxes so I doubt police will do anything and since you put your own tape over it I think your screwed

Thanks, I didn't put the tape on actually. But unfortunately do not have any photographic evidence of the "bottom" taping of the case.

My reason for filing a police report would to see if there's any history behind the buyer (or the address). Also if not, at least start a history to hopefully protect future sellers.

Also I contacted ebay, Apparently there's a "High ASP" department that deals with high value transactions (and related fraud). Unfortunately the CS said they're closed and will be open during regular business hours Mon-Fri. Wondering if they can provide any additional insights or options.

Appreciate everyone's feedback

[ND3]

Given the value of the contents and the sale price ($3K+), worst case scenario, would anyone advise in filing a police report? Again this would be new to me, just looking at all options at this point. Thanks!

You can file a police report with your local department and they may on your behalf file with the local department of the buyer. Or you may have to do it yourself.

Most often the police are going to refer this as a civil matter to be worked out in the courts.

Possible leverage a message telling him you are going to seek legal action against the buyer to see if it will deter the return/case.

Good luck!

[shrevecity]

Thanks, I didn't put the tape on actually. But unfortunately do not have any photographic evidence of the "bottom" taping of the case.

My reason for filing a police report would to see if there's any history behind the buyer (or the address). Also if not, at least start a history to hopefully protect future sellers.

Also I contacted ebay, Apparently there's a "High ASP" department that deals with high value transactions (and related fraud). Unfortunately the CS said they're closed and will be open during regular business hours Mon-Fri. Wondering if they can provide any additional insights or options.

Appreciate everyone's feedback

LOL.. They will tell you anything to get you off the phone. I guarantee you could call them and they will tell you they will not force a refund then do just the opposite of what they tell you and there will be no record of your earlier call.. NEVER TRUST WHAT AN EBAY REP TELLS YOU UNLESS THEY DO IT WHILE YOU ARE ON THE PHONE.

Most police departments will say this is a civil matter. Since there is no way to prove anything beyond any doubt.

[JWBlue]

could he have opened cards from each case until he got a specific "case hit" then not opened the rest??? then put the unopened boxes after the 3 case hits back into 3rd case claiming it wasn't sealed? So he gets 3 case hits for the price of 2????

Bingo. I couldn't figure out what the scheme was.

[leewei]

Bingo. I couldn't figure out what the scheme was.

Or I could be receiving back a box of bricks lol..

[Siberian13]

Man that sucks. Hopefully it’s not tampered with and worst case you open it and hit a monster. Nothing you can really do though. Sounds like it’s pretty easy to scam on new boxes/cases by saying it was already opened or damaged once received. Ebay is scary sometimes with all the criminals in this supposed hobby.

[Siberian13]

Or I could be receiving back a box of bricks lol..

Can you have the package returned to your local post office and open it in front of them to be safe?

[Dbacksbaseball]

Check the state laws on mail theft/fraud. 3k Is awfully close to felony level which will make the police interested. Search on the forum there was a Mike Trout Rookie auto that this happened with recently.

[Siberian13]

Check the state laws on mail theft/fraud. 3k Is awfully close to felony level which will make the police interested. Search on the forum there was a Mike Trout Rookie auto that this happened with recently.

The problem seems to be being able to prove it. Hope it works out for the OP

[leewei]

Thanks everyone. Will definitely update the community as things happen Will get Fedex/Police involved as necessary.

[mhcook]

Definitely not afraid to put this person on full blast. But will wait to receive the item back first and check the contents.I would put the username and real name out there, not to put him on blast, but to see if anyone has any knowledge. If he is scamming, he didn't bust his cherry on NT. Plus, there is some possibility he is doing nothing wrong and hopefully others will be know him and chime in that they are legit.

[Archangel1775]

I would fille a police report if the seal is broken and you know it wasn't sent like that. Additionally, I would have the police open the case and dust the boxes for fingerprints,seriously. That's a lot of money and pays rent twice over for 99 percent of us. Also mail fraud..... Internet faud....Go all out!

[3124508 on COMC]

I would fille a police report if the seal is broken and you know it wasn't sent like that. Additionally, I would have the police open the case and dust the boxes for fingerprints,seriously. That's a lot of money and pays rent twice over for 99 percent of us. Also mail fraud..... Internet faud....Go all out!

You watch too much CSI, my friend. If you get them to take a report you'll be lucky.

[shrevecity]

You watch too much CSI, my friend. If you get them to take a report you'll be lucky.

Yep. Even if they do take a report it will likely end up in file 13. This will be a civil matter most likely.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

Look at the replies in this thread and then think to yourself why scammers keep scamming... You guys make it too easy with the "nothing you can do, just take the hit and move on" posts.

[Siberian13]

Look at the replies in this thread and then think to yourself why scammers keep scamming... You guys make it too easy with the "nothing you can do, just take the hit and move on" posts.

Please list what he can do. That would be helpful

[kingsjason55]

3k would be worth a drive and door knock on someone's doorstep.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[leewei]

I would put the username and real name out there, not to put him on blast, but to see if anyone has any knowledge. If he is scamming, he didn't bust his cherry on NT. Plus, there is some possibility he is doing nothing wrong and hopefully others will be know him and chime in that they are legit.

Thanks and happens to be a her.. I assume they will be returning the item this week so will keep all posted. Best case this may be buyers remorse and a way to return?

[leewei]

3k would be worth a drive and door knock on someone's doorstep.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I’ve thought about it. Unfortunately I live in NJ and this buyer is out in Cali.. so not as easy as a drive.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

Please list what he can do. That would be helpful

Why should anyone do that? Seller wants help because he's possibly getting scammed but can't be bothered to out the buyer to protect other people...? Buyer could be scamming more than just him, right? A posted name could potentially bring more people in saying buyer is scamming them too, right?

For starters, common sense says get a mail fraud case started since is a $3k hit.

[RogerGodahell]

It would be helpful to know who else the buyer has bought from and what else they've bought. In the old days of eBay you used to be able to see that info before they started encrypting it.

Once you get it back i would look it over carefully and if you think it's been tampered with file an ebay case. You can't see that info that i described above but eBay can. This guy may be doing the same thing with other people and if they see a pattern of him returning unopened boxes they may side with you.

[RogerGodahell]

Is this our culprit?
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41168755651_8e83d4a246_b.jpg

Yes, im that good. BODA

[leewei]

Is this our culprit?
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41168755651_8e83d4a246_b.jpg

Yes, im that good. BODA

Wow impressive.. Sarah Gerona. It was signed by her as well. Again can’t confirm on fraud claims and will do so once package is received. Thanks all.

[majestik101]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. It seems that every year, National Treasures really brings out the low lifes. Sad but true.

Good luck OP.

[RogerGodahell]

I've said it once, I'll say it again. It seems that every year, National Treasures really brings out the low lifes. Sad but true.

Good luck OP.

It does seem like it's been that way for NT. It's almost like it brings the greed, stealing and worst out of people.

They're like Gollum
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/798/41127557802_64eec0eca4.jpg

[TWard]

Hope it works out for you, OP. 3k is no laughing matter.

[dapro]

Let's hope its not a box filled with paper instead. Because you can't prove you didn't sent it that way. Good luck. That is why I really hate high money deals. You don't know who is a fraud nowadays or mail get lost while delivering.

[ND3]

I would fille a police report if the seal is broken and you know it wasn't sent like that. Additionally, I would have the police open the case and dust the boxes for fingerprints,seriously. That's a lot of money and pays rent twice over for 99 percent of us. Also mail fraud..... Internet faud....Go all out!

While it all sounds great. In reality the authorities aren't going to do much..that is just the plain hard truth. You will hear this is civil matter over and over.

File all the reports necessary OP. Push to see if your local and buyers local department will do anything. Contact postal inspector office as well. They will be less inclined to help being that you aren't talking about a multi million dollar scam/counterfeit ring.

[JWBlue]

Look at the replies in this thread and then think to yourself why scammers keep scamming... You guys make it too easy with the "nothing you can do, just take the hit and move on" posts.

Post of the year on B.O.

[tnvolfan16]

i think the biggest problem is finding someone at the police department who understands why what you are trying to explain to them is important. if you put yourself in the shoes of the general public and just for example sake, someone is trying to explain that they shipped a case of 3 (or everhowmany) boxes to this person, you suspect they opened the case, got the "case hit" out of box number one, put another box in its place and returned it. and that potential scenario could make the case worth less money because it is not sealed from the factory. you probably lost them at the words "case hit". I could see them saying, so you sent three boxes and had three boxes returned, sounds like their is no problem. i could just see that being the conversation unless the person knows how this industry works. hope it works out in the end

[kingsjason55]

That's honestly why I stopped selling boxes/cases. Its so difficult to prove anything. I really hope the best IMO when you receive it back record it as you receive it.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[hawkeyecards]

Let's hope its not a box filled with paper instead. Because you can't prove you didn't sent it that way. Good luck. That is why I really hate high money deals. You don't know who is a fraud nowadays or mail get lost while delivering.
You can get the weight of the package you sent as well as the weight of the package sent to you. If they're off considerably mail fraud is easily shown and then you can get postal inspector on it and that's a felony.

[Siberian13]

How many of you guys have had success getting to PO-PO involved and getting results? And the person who attempted the fraud/scam actually being punished? How do we know this person even did anything wrong? Guess we will all have to wait until you get your package back first.

[bmp8878]

i think the biggest problem is finding someone at the police department who understands why what you are trying to explain to them is important. if you put yourself in the shoes of the general public and just for example sake, someone is trying to explain that they shipped a case of 3 (or everhowmany) boxes to this person, you suspect they opened the case, got the "case hit" out of box number one, put another box in its place and returned it. and that potential scenario could make the case worth less money because it is not sealed from the factory. you probably lost them at the words "case hit". I could see them saying, so you sent three boxes and had three boxes returned, sounds like their is no problem. i could just see that being the conversation unless the person knows how this industry works. hope it works out in the end

Great post. :)!

[mltpd5574]

I have been a police officer for 15 years and with the information given here I would have a very difficult time gathering enough evidence for a prosecutor to bring charges. This is why most police officers consider your best course of action to be civil.

[Onepocketj]

I have been a police officer for 15 years and with the information given here I would have a very difficult time gathering enough evidence for a prosecutor to bring charges. This is why most police officers consider your best course of action to be civil.

Holy lurker! You brought him out of 8 years of lurking with this post! :)

[LALeakers]

Holy lurker! You brought him out of 8 years of lurking with this post! :)

This.....how strange...:doh::doh:


Good luck OP.

[meandsharon11]

Sounds like the buyer is opening and swapping out what is in the cases for what they have.


Take a screen shot of all cards this buyer has listed. If the boxes are all cut but full then check and see if the ones in the boxes match any that were listed. Assuming the buyer would end them. If you’re lucky they will make a mistake like this.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=929550&highlight=peja

This BO group breaker was good at opening sealed cases then resealing them and swapping big hits out for lower end hits. Thread is a good read and he had been doing it for quite a while and screwing over everyone who joined his breaks.

Hopefully that's not what the buyer in your case is trying to do to you.

[leewei]

Bad news. Received case back unsealed. Tins intact but no cards.

BEWARE

Ebay member: Sgcloset17

Sarah Gerona of Westminster, CA

Talking to risk department of eBay now. Will keep all updated.

[kingsjason55]

Bad news. Received case back unsealed. Tins intact but no cards.

BEWARE

Ebay member: Sgcloset17

Sarah Gerona of Westminster, CA

Talking to risk department of eBay now. Will keep all updated.You recorded it being opened up from receiving? I would probably being flying red eye tonight if I was you door knocking as soon as flight landed. Unreal

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[nickha2]

Bad news. Received case back unsealed. Tins intact but no cards.

BEWARE

Ebay member: Sgcloset17

Sarah Gerona of Westminster, CA

Talking to risk department of eBay now. Will keep all updated.

I am so sorry this happened.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

Bad news. Received case back unsealed. Tins intact but no cards.

BEWARE

Ebay member: Sgcloset17

Sarah Gerona of Westminster, CA

Talking to risk department of eBay now. Will keep all updated.

Damn, that sucks. I'd also be opening a mail fraud case.

[Grid]

Bad news. Received case back unsealed. Tins intact but no cards.

BEWARE

Ebay member: Sgcloset17

Sarah Gerona of Westminster, CA

Talking to risk department of eBay now. Will keep all updated.

Wow. Sorry! Can we assume that some of these are your cards then? Maybe report each listing to ebay as stolen goods to keep her from scattering your stuff across the country?

https://www.ebay.com/sch/Football-Cards/215/m.html?_ssn=sgcloset17&_sop=12&_ipg=50&_from=R40&_nkw=national+treasures

[Chris Henderson]

Check the shipping label and compare the shipping weight to the original order if you still have a record of it. I got out of paying for a return this way once due to the significant weight difference.

[sethc1020]

Check the shipping label and compare the shipping weight to the original order if you still have a record of it. I got out of paying for a return this way once due to the significant weight difference.
This for sure! That would be proof of fraud for sure.

[blackbears86]

wow, this is terrible OP. Hope she (if it really is a she) gets nailed.

[Siberian13]

This for sure! That would be proof of fraud for sure.

The question is did the fraud happen at USPS or from the ebay buyer? Someone could of stolen them at the post office during shipping right? I assume the ebay buyer did it but where is the proof? Unless the cards they have on ebay match the case that panini sent out to the OP and can determine that somehow. Which would kind of suck because that would mean they could send certain cases to certain large breakers etc.

[Siberian13]

wow, this is terrible OP. Hope she (if it really is a she) gets nailed.

Kid using momy's account?

[sethc1020]

If you only sold her 1 case she has obviously done this to some one else as well because she has 5 Stars and Stripes RPAs listed and if you check her feedback has sold at least 2 others. Ask Ebay if she has returned another case for the same issue, is so thats even more proof to help your case.

[sethc1020]

The question is did the fraud happen at USPS or from the ebay buyer? Someone could of stolen them at the post office during shipping right? I assume the ebay buyer did it but where is the proof? Unless the cards they have on ebay match the case that panini sent out to the OP and can determine that somehow. Which would kind of suck because that would mean they could send certain cases to certain large breakers etc.
I thought about this as well, OP did you purchase insurance on the shipping?

[blackbears86]

If you only sold her 1 case she has obviously done this to some one else as well because she has 5 Stars and Stripes RPAs listed and if you check her feedback has sold at least 2 others. Ask Ebay if she has returned another case for the same issue, is so thats even more proof to help your case.

I bet this is not the first time this has happened.

[mrdallas]

Sorry OP this sucks. Curious if you have sent a message to the buyer yet after getting the package back?

[leewei]

I did purchase insurance through fedex (less than price of case) and will be filing. Will also talk to local enforcement but like others suggested may be nothing they can do.

Pretty sure its the buyer based on some back and forth I had with her/him. Last message from a couple days ago I asked if the outer box had been altered (opened).

Took a few days for them to get back, but here's the message

"I don't know about the outer box but the package went back yesterday morning. Do you have a sealed case? I'm still looking for them."

Why would anyone buy another case if they believe the first was altered?? Another red flag was they wanted to originally buy 3 cases from me but thank god the first two already sold.

[leewei]

I can't say about the cards that he/she posted but yes she definitely is selling or sold more than 4. Wouldn't be able to identify which ones were mine.

From Google - Sarah Gerona, westminster, CA is 24 and works at an ice cream shop.. Doesn't make sense she's buying these expensive cases.

[sethc1020]

"I don't know about the outer box but the package went back yesterday morning. Do you have a sealed case? I'm still looking for them."

Why would anyone buy another case if they believe the first was altered??

Exactly! And who would even consider selling them another one? I hope everything works out for you as this is complete BS!

[kingsjason55]

I can't say about the cards that he/she posted but yes she definitely is selling or sold more than 4. Wouldn't be able to identify which ones were mine.

From Google - Sarah Gerona, westminster, CA is 24 and works at an ice cream shop.. Doesn't make sense she's buying these expensive cases.Exactly.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[blackbears86]

[QUOTE=leewei;13403395]I can't say about the cards that he/she posted but yes she definitely is selling or sold more than 4. Wouldn't be able to identify which ones were mine.

From Google - Sarah Gerona, westminster, CA is 24 and [B]works at an ice cream shop.. Doesn't make sense she's buying these expensive cases.



Must be incredible ice cream and she owns the shop.

Or this is 100% fake

[SanAntonioSpurs]

I can't say about the cards that he/she posted but yes she definitely is selling or sold more than 4. Wouldn't be able to identify which ones were mine.

From Google - Sarah Gerona, westminster, CA is 24 and works at an ice cream shop.. Doesn't make sense she's buying these expensive cases.

Probably a boyfriend/husband using her info then.

[meandsharon11]

Check the shipping label and compare the shipping weight to the original order if you still have a record of it. I got out of paying for a return this way once due to the significant weight difference.



THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OVER

AND OVER

AND OVER




Report this to eBay and PayPal AND the authorities. It’s not just you this person is scamming, and as stated this is mail fraud which is a FEDERAL offense.

IF you went to the post office and paid there then they have exact weight when sent, and the return label will have exact weight when sent back. If you sent by PayPal then there is no way to verify since you can claim any weight through PayPal shipping.

Hopefully you payed at the post office, still have the receipt and the shipping label on the package when you received it.

[dapro]

This totally sucks. I hope you get your money back and he\she should be banned from ebay.

[Grid]

Paradis Ice Cream Shop to be exact. But it also looks like they removed their Linkedin profile recently. The page has been scrubbed from their website.

[Siberian13]

Paradis Ice Cream Shop to be exact. But it also looks like they removed their Linkedin profile recently. The page has been scrubbed from their website.

Which location?

[leewei]

Thanks everyone. Appreciate the comments and don't want to get anyone else involved.

As for weight. The tin/box was intact and only cards were removed which unfortunately didn't result in a change in the original weight of 5lbs (rounded up).

Unfortunately ebay was no help. Will update everyone on how my conversation with LE goes tomorrow.

One thing I will say is that the way the box was resealed and photos taken..was a very professional scam job. Definitely wasn't this individual's first time (or likely last).

[BigRhino]

Wow sorry to hear leewei. Make sure to report all of their listings as stolen property to at least stop them from selling the cards. So brazen

[meandsharon11]

seriously need to leave feedback stating you were scammed as a seller

[meandsharon11]

philsbullpen left feedback as a seller stating beware and the buyer is a liar.


you aren't the first person and the more that post the better

[Siberian13]

philsbullpen left feedback as a seller stating beware and the buyer is a liar.


you aren't the first person and the more that post the better

Why does this feedback from philsbullpen show up as positive? I assume ebay changed it?

************* ATTENTION SELLERS/ BEWARE OF LIES ************

[leewei]

Why does this feedback from philsbullpen show up as positive? I assume ebay changed it?

************* ATTENTION SELLERS/ BEWARE OF LIES ************

Ebay sellers can ONLY leave positive feedback. I'm waiting for the conclusion of the ebay investigation on the buyer (see if there's any history). I'll definitely leave feedback at the conclusion.

[meandsharon11]

Why does this feedback from philsbullpen show up as positive? I assume ebay changed it?

************* ATTENTION SELLERS/ BEWARE OF LIES ************



ebay changed that a long time ago. You haven't been able to leave anything other than positive feedback to buyers for years

[Siberian13]

ebay changed that a long time ago. You haven't been able to leave anything other than positive feedback to buyers for years

eBay is a terrible company. I see they only care about sales.

[discostu]

Post up the street address that you shipped to

[leewei]

Wow...received huge help from the community concerning background of the scam artist.. Gerona is her Maiden name. While her husband (verified street address to where the package was sent to) is a fan of cards. Also affiliation with the local card shop that may need to be looked into. I may contact the card shop to see if these cards are being fenced there. At this point I'll cross reference the husbands name with ebay and LE and see if there's any history. No way this is their first time..

Again a big THANK YOU to the community. Will be sure to provide updates.

[fact81]

Happy to see your making strides!! It's an awful feeling, being victimized! 100times better when you nail the SOB

[TWard]

I hate people. I really hope this all gets situated and you get your money back, OP.

[hche]

You can also file report at:

https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

No guarantee they will do anything, but if someone else already did, more reports will trigger an investigation.

[Siberian13]

Wow...received huge help from the community concerning background of the scam artist.. Gerona is her Maiden name. While her husband (verified street address to where the package was sent to) is a fan of cards. Also affiliation with the local card shop that may need to be looked into. I may contact the card shop to see if these cards are being fenced there. At this point I'll cross reference the husbands name with ebay and LE and see if there's any history. No way this is their first time..

Again a big THANK YOU to the community. Will be sure to provide updates.

What’s the guys name?

[leewei]

What’s the guys name?

Kunjewa Nguyen.. anyone dealt with this guy?

[discostu]

Kunjewa Nguyen.. anyone dealt with this guy?
24 years old, with a young daughter...

[ninjacookies]

24 years old, with a young daughter...


Wham. Bam. Cot. Damn.


I love the interwebs.

OP. Love your tenacity. Do not let these fraudsters off the hook. Make them wet the bed every night knowing their future freedom isn't secured.

The sad thing is they were able to procreate.

[glen87]

seriously need to leave feedback stating you were scammed as a seller

definitely DO NOT do this

[3124508 on COMC]

definitely DO NOT do this

Agreed. Terrible advice.

[ctau00]

Sarah Elisha Gerona


24 years old, with a young daughter...
https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-1/p160x160/12311255_1176322545714723_8569291481384728330_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=fd9a825eee0782407f4d930a8df03457&oe=5B6CA00C

A google search of just her first & last name doesn't result in much. I'm not even sure the results are for the same person in question but add a middle name and whaddya know, she's a non-sport sketch artist who also happens to buy & sell sportscards??? A lot of sportscards... and high end brands too, especially for a new seller since Jan 2018. She may not be so innocent after all. Sorry you're having to deal with this OP.:mad::mad::mad:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjm0qq66qbaAhUSbawKHebwA5oQFghPMA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FPoison-Ivy-X-men-Marvel-Divas-Original-Art-Sketch-by-S-Elisha-Premiere-Artist-%2F142709221406&usg=AOvVaw21Rrelob4o7N5utXjsRQ_v
https://www.ebay.com/usr/scsexpress?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

eBay Member User ID History
The box below contains the User IDs that this member has used on eBay.

User ID
Effective Date
End Date

scsexpress
Mar-30-18
Present

xmarvel
Jan-09-18
Mar-30-18

t*********5
Jan-09-18
Jan-09-18

[discostu]

The beauty of the internet now is that if you screw up, it will stay with you.

Now a basic Google search of this guy and his wife will show everyone who they are...thieves and scam artists.

Forever.

Sure, they can change their names if they want, but regardless...this makes things really uncomfortable for these two...immediately.

[leewei]

You can't prove what cards were in the boxes so I doubt police will do anything and since you put your own tape over it I think your screwed

A google search of just her first & last name doesn't result in much. I'm not even sure the results are for the same person in question but add a middle name and whaddya know, she's a non-sport sketch artist who also happens to buy & sell sportscards??? A lot of sportscards... and high end brands too, especially for a new seller since Jan 2018. She may not be so innocent after all. Sorry you're having to deal with this OP.:mad::mad::mad:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=14&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjm0qq66qbaAhUSbawKHebwA5oQFghPMA0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2FPoison-Ivy-X-men-Marvel-Divas-Original-Art-Sketch-by-S-Elisha-Premiere-Artist-%2F142709221406&usg=AOvVaw21Rrelob4o7N5utXjsRQ_v
https://www.ebay.com/usr/scsexpress?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

eBay Member User ID History
The box below contains the User IDs that this member has used on eBay.

User ID
Effective Date
End Date

scsexpress
Mar-30-18
Present

xmarvel
Jan-09-18
Mar-30-18

t*********5
Jan-09-18
Jan-09-18


Wow..interesting..didn't know about this 2nd account. More /13 FOTLs. Curious how many cases they bought/stole. I'll contact ebay again tomorrow and bring this to their attention. Thanks!

[jppicks]

Sorry this happened. This is really unfortunate. This is why now I don't sell high-end on ebay unless it is with a consignor as they have more power with ebay/paypal to deal with fraudsters and stop them from getting refunds than a smaller seller would have. We are stuck holding the bag .

[JVO]

Wow Westminster is literally like 5 mins away from me and mainly populated with about 50% Vietnamese. I hope everything works out for u OP.

[leewei]

**UPDATE**

So early in the morning I received the following message from the buyer:

"Hey,
It has been a few days and I really do feel bad about returning your item. To be honest, the case wasn't factory sealed, it had a tape line over the "Stop..." tape. I guess I was so mad when I thought you tried to sell me an opened case that I opened all the boxes and then return the case to you. But, I know it wasn't right and it bothered me since. Now, I don't know if you knew the case was opened or not but it's not right for me to open the inner boxes. But, all I can do now is apologize for what I did and ask you to cancel the "return request", because I can't prove that you knew the case was open or not but I sure as hell know what I did was wrong. So again, I apologize. If you can't cancel the return request, just contact eBay and point them to the next message that I'm sending you asking you to cancel the "return request". That should solve the issue because I had another buyer that done the same to me"

Not that it matters, but item was factory sealed and it was only once that I received it, I noticed a clear packing tape over the seal. Made no sense the he opened and resealed?? I had to "unseal" the seal he replaced once I received the package. I do have this on video.

At this point, things are starting to look good. I contacted ebay and informed them of the message. They checked up on it but unfortunately the buyer needs to initiate the conversation directly with eBay to cancel this transaction.

There were about 20 back and forth messages with the buyer as well as 2-3 hours on the phone with ebay. Essentially what it came down to was although the person messaging back and forth wanted to cancel the return, when ebay called them directly (this happened twice) the person on the phone (the wife) wanted to continue to pursue the refund. At this point there seems to be miscommunication with the husband and wife??

I escalated this case to ebay leadership and everyone I spoke to noted this as a strangely unique situation. Although the writer of the messages seems apologetic over the incident, no where in any message does he say he kept the card. This is what I need according to ebay in order to resolve the issue. I believe these scammers to be incredibly careful in order to not incriminate themselves. I sent one more message to them about 4 hours ago and laid out exactly what ebay needed in order to clear the case but have not heard back. Don't think I will.

My plan was to head to the local police dept to file the report today but will now do this tomorrow. I'll see what their advice is in whether I should pursue this with the Westminster LE. I have until 4/16 until the buyer can escalate the claim, close the case, and on my end

Also will be sending the buyer one last message tomorrow morning warning them of the serious nature of the scam. I plan on calling/contacting all local card shops in westminster and beyond and warn them that these two individuals may be selling stolen items.

Fedex insurance claim can't be opened as the items were returned :(.

Are there any other actions I can legally take in response? Please let me know if I missed anything.

Sorry I know this is long, but its quite therapeutic detailing and laying all this out. And again a big thank you to the community for the continued support!

[ucLAkers]

What are your odds now....33%
So there is a chance! I really hope this works out as a victory for you.

eBay still sucks....for sellers.

[fact81]

He knows he is caught, most likely reading these posts right now.

[ninjacookies]

**UPDATE**

So early in the morning I received the following message from the buyer:

"Hey,
It has been a few days and I really do feel bad about returning your item. To be honest, the case wasn't factory sealed, it had a tape line over the "Stop..." tape. I guess I was so mad when I thought you tried to sell me an opened case that I opened all the boxes and then return the case to you. But, I know it wasn't right and it bothered me since. Now, I don't know if you knew the case was opened or not but it's not right for me to open the inner boxes. But, all I can do now is apologize for what I did and ask you to cancel the "return request", because I can't prove that you knew the case was open or not but I sure as hell know what I did was wrong. So again, I apologize. If you can't cancel the return request, just contact eBay and point them to the next message that I'm sending you asking you to cancel the "return request". That should solve the issue because I had another buyer that done the same to me"

Not that it matters, but item was factory sealed and it was only once that I received it, I noticed a clear packing tape over the seal. Made no sense the he opened and resealed?? I had to "unseal" the seal he replaced once I received the package. I do have this on video.

At this point, things are starting to look good. I contacted ebay and informed them of the message. They checked up on it but unfortunately the buyer needs to initiate the conversation directly with eBay to cancel this transaction.

There were about 20 back and forth messages with the buyer as well as 2-3 hours on the phone with ebay. Essentially what it came down to was although the person messaging back and forth wanted to cancel the return, when ebay called them directly (this happened twice) the person on the phone (the wife) wanted to continue to pursue the refund. At this point there seems to be miscommunication with the husband and wife??

I escalated this case to ebay leadership and everyone I spoke to noted this as a strangely unique situation. Although the writer of the messages seems apologetic over the incident, no where in any message does he say he kept the card. This is what I need according to ebay in order to resolve the issue. I believe these scammers to be incredibly careful in order to not incriminate themselves. I sent one more message to them about 4 hours ago and laid out exactly what ebay needed in order to clear the case but have not heard back. Don't think I will.

My plan was to head to the local police dept to file the report today but will now do this tomorrow. I'll see what their advice is in whether I should pursue this with the Westminster LE. I have until 4/16 until the buyer can escalate the claim, close the case, and on my end

Also will be sending the buyer one last message tomorrow morning warning them of the serious nature of the scam. I plan on calling/contacting all local card shops in westminster and beyond and warn them that these two individuals may be selling stolen items.

Fedex insurance claim can't be opened as the items were returned :(.

Are there any other actions I can legally take in response? Please let me know if I missed anything.

Sorry I know this is long, but its quite therapeutic detailing and laying all this out. And again a big thank you to the community for the continued support!


Honestly does seem like the buyer is catching some really scary vibes now that you have shown firm resolve in this situation and are not backing down to his demands (probably as most other sellers have done). Good on you.

I'm also under the impression they are paranoid beyond belief and found this thread and trying to do damage control before the boys with the shiny silver bracelets catch wind.

If I were you (and if time and resources permit), I would not simply settle for a cancelled return request, but also fully pursue possible criminal charges.

Because I am 99 percent sure this is neither their first, nor 10th rodeo...and they'll keep on pulling this scam on more unsuspecting innocent victims such as yourself in the future. These are multiple large scale felonies.

It needs to stop.

Good luck. Hoping for some good news.

[kingsjason55]

He knows he is caught, most likely reading these posts right now.Yep thought same thing. He is done sleepless nights ahead for him now.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[discostu]

Nope.


This should be permanent as this is the character of these two thieves. Just because they are caught...that's not honest remorse.

OP do what works for you, but these two need to feel the wrath of permanent crucifixion for trying to cheat and steal. It's on them.

If it's nothing more than internet posts, they should feel lucky. They deserve much worse.

[KhalDrogo]

Honestly does seem like the buyer is catching some really scary vibes now that you have shown firm resolve in this situation and are not backing down to his demands (probably as most other sellers have done). Good on you.

I'm also under the impression they are paranoid beyond belief and found this thread and trying to do damage control before the boys with the shiny silver bracelets catch wind.

If I were you (and if time and resources permit), I would not simply settle for a cancelled return request, but also fully pursue possible criminal charges.

Because I am 99 percent sure this is neither their first, nor 10th rodeo...and they'll keep on pulling this scam on more unsuspecting innocent victims such as yourself in the future. These are multiple large scale felonies.

It needs to stop.

Good luck. Hoping for some good news.
Agreed. Don't cancel. Even if you ignore everything that happened before that message, it would still boil down to them opening your case and seeing/selling what's inside before making this offer.

[Kollectornet]

I have been keeping up with this post and haven't commented until now. This is some crazy stuff. I hope everything works out for the OP and I really really hope they get what they deserve.....jail. Postal fraud, theft and deceit for both of them.

[SanAntonioSpurs]

All of the sudden people become apologetic when they are caught red handed... don’t cancel the case and persue it to the fullest. Obviously this isn’t their first time doing this, but it could be the first time they got called out to this extent.

[leewei]

Looks like their facebook pages (Kunjewa and Sarah) are now "hidden."

No more messages from the buyer. We will see how this plays out.

[sammyjankis]

Small claims court maybe? They admitted what they did. File a report with every agency you haven't already.

Good luck. You're in the right so don't back down.

[leewei]

Just throwing this out there, but does anyone here frequent Card Rush Hobby Store, Westminster CA?

When I looked at their online page looks like they only deal in "Gaming" Cards. However in their ebay store, they're selling some huge FOTL /13 hits.. I'll contact them directly concerning the two but wanted to see if anyone in the area has experience with this store. Thanks

[ninjacookies]

Would also suggest touching bases with that neg (but positive) fb they had. May have identical stories and yet another witness to your case. They also may be keen on trying to help you pursue criminal action depending on the severity of their interaction.

[JVO]

any updates for today?

[leewei]

Hey All,

I can confirm with certainty that this post is being viewed by the scammer(s). At this point I'm going to stop with my updates at least pertaining to the actions taken. Will update all once ebay's decision is final. Please feel free to PM me if there's additional info that can help in this case. Thanks all!

[Siberian13]

Hey All,

I can confirm with certainty that this post is being viewed by the scammer(s). At this point I'm going to stop with my updates at least pertaining to the actions taken. Will update all once ebay's decision is final. Please feel free to PM me if there's additional info that can help in this case. Thanks all!

Good luck! We all wish you the best

[nickha2]

please make an example of this guy

[discostu]

So here are the basics, Sarah Elisa of Westminster CA doubles as a sketch artist is a scammer who appears to have "stolen" a few thousand dollars of sportscards. Her 24 year old husband, Kunjewa Nguyen, also of Westminster CA, was directly involved and may or may not have been the mastermind of this alleged crime.

Most certainly, if they have done it once, they have done it multiple times. If that's the case...these two could face some potential felony charges based on the dollar figures.

For all of its laws and regulations...California is not the place to do things like this, so they'll have issues at the state level and the federal level.

At this point...I'd reach out to the other seller who had this happen, contact the police and contact the state of CA.

This type of behavior is clearly criminal.

[golferphil]

I hate eBay and paypal and people, but mainly people.

Good luck.

[stang_crazy]

Wow this is just insane.

[leewei]

Hey All,

I screenshotted a few messages attached. I believe there to be 2 individuals involved.

It does seem that the individual sending the messages was sincerely apologetic over the incident, offering to cancel the return multiple times. Unfortunately I'm not aware of what happened on the phone calls. Each time ebay called/contacted, the "female" is adamant about getting a return. Again the account holder is ultimately the "female"

Dead silence since the last message (saturday) although I know ebay has spoken to them directly in the last 2 days. They are still pushing for the refund.

Just wanted to share the messages in case anyone doubts any details I shared so far. Thanks

[nickha2]

Photos are to small to read at least for me.

[leewei]

Sorry I edited the screenshots, attached

[discostu]

Get law enforcement involved.

Why wait?

With any luck, their daughter will be raised by a family member for a few years.

[leewei]

Forgot to mention all messages were from Saturday...

[fact81]

Still failing to see how they remotely have a case?

[dapro]

If they already admit guilt on the emails, why can't ebay just refund you the money?

[leewei]

Yea been on the phone for hours with ebay . The problem is the conflicting info they're getting. Messages admits guilt while phone convo states otherwise.

[boston12]

Yea been on the phone for hours with ebay . The problem is the conflicting info they're getting. Messages admits guilt while phone convo states otherwise.

I would get law enforcement involved ASAP. I'm very disappointed in Ebay at this point. I don't care if they are getting "conflicting" messages from the seller. They can see clear as stay this is fishy as all hell, and they have admitted in writing to this crime.

[blackbears86]

Good luck with this OP. I don't know who's worse: ebay or the thieves at this point.

[Bassplayah101]

I would get law enforcement involved ASAP. I'm very disappointed in Ebay at this point. I don't care if they are getting "conflicting" messages from the seller. They can see clear as stay this is fishy as all hell, and they have admitted in writing to this crime.

This.
Guilt was admitted in writing. See if you can escalate this to a higher up within Ebay, and please engage law enforcement.

Good luck, sir. For what its worth, I am sorry this is happening to you, as it could happen to any one of us. Im very disappointed in Ebay at this point.

[kingsjason55]

Sounds crazy but reason why in high end cards or cases might be best to use a high end dealer who holds weight with eBay for legitimacy. Individual seller with sells here and there verse one that perhaps sells 100s a week with high end would definetely carry weight with eBay. Just a thought for furture.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[Siberian13]

Sounds crazy but reason why in high end cards or cases might be best to use a high end dealer who holds weight with eBay for legitimacy. Individual seller with sells here and there verse one that perhaps sells 100s a week with high end would definetely carry weight with eBay. Just a thought for furture.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

So if this happened to Probstein and let’s just say the guilty party doesn’t admit to anything and there’s no proof, eBay will side with both of them you think?

[kingsjason55]

So if this happened to Probstein and let’s just say the guilty party doesn’t admit to anything and there’s no proof, eBay will side with both of them you think?Perhaps. I can only imagine they would be more pro for who brings most money.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[ctau00]

This is straight up disgusting on the parts of both ebay & the buyer(s). OP, did you happen to capture screen shots of the now non-existent & conveniently deleted posts we IMed about? I'm sure if you were to share them with either of the parties working against you it would persuade them to settle this once and for all. Good luck!

[leewei]

This is straight up disgusting on the parts of both ebay & the buyer(s). OP, did you happen to capture screen shots of the now non-existent & conveniently deleted posts we IMed about? I'm sure if you were to share them with either of the parties working against you it would persuade them to settle this once and for all. Good luck!


Thanks Ctau. I can confirm that this info, along with additional, have been documented and shared with interested parties.

If anyone finds anything else please PM me directly. Doing my best to build a case.

[TheLastDude]

Wait, so they admitted in writing to opening the boxes and keeping the cards and sending back an empty case because they were "mad" (like it's not 100% obvious they got caught in a scam), and there's even a question of you not getting your money back from eBay?

FFS

[packman80]

I would tell Ebay if they refuse to refund your money that you will seek legal action against them and the seller and then it will be for more then then money you want refunded.

[discostu]

I would tell Ebay if they refuse to refund your money that you will seek legal action against them and the seller and then it will be for more then then money you want refunded.

I would not threaten to sue Ebay (or anyone/anything) unless I was fully prepared to actually do it. Even then, I wouldn't threaten...I would just sue.

Is Ebay complicit? Yes. Tell them that.

Much like you shouldn't give an "or I'll get the authorities involved" approach. Anyone who says that more than likely will not get anyone else involved. The authorities should have already been involved, then a police report forwarded to Ebay. How Ebay chooses to respond after that, then tells a bigger picture.

[mrdallas]

I know only a day but any update?

and sorry to bump this thread again, but I noticed these thieves are still selling the cards on their eBay page, Hopefully, anyone reading this thread does not buy from them. At least if this thread continues to show up until a resolution is found more people can be aware and block them.

[TASS]

Get law enforcement involved.

Why wait?

With any luck, their daughter will be raised by a family member for a few years.

LOL

Can't wait till they read posts like yours, if they weren't shitting their pants prior then they surely are now!!

I agree that local law enforcement should be involved, this is definitely not an isolated incident.

And shame on Ebay it's situations like this that make using their platform all the more unappealing!

[RogerGodahell]

They should put them in the pillory and we can throw tomatoes at them



https://farm1.staticflickr.com/792/41391059322_e693b8778e_o.jpg

[mrdallas]

I also think their "apology" is BS. If they really felt bad, why would they still be selling with (99%) certainty, the cards in question. To me that is basically giving the OP a big fat middle finger. I know it has been said multiple times, but I am sorry this happened to you OP. This is Horse****!!!

[leewei]

I know only a day but any update?

and sorry to bump this thread again, but I noticed these thieves are still selling the cards on their eBay page, Hopefully, anyone reading this thread does not buy from them. At least if this thread continues to show up until a resolution is found more people can be aware and block them.

Thanks, I supplied all documentation to ebay. Waiting for them to complete their investigation. Not sure the time table but will update the community once decision is made.

Again please reach out to me if there's additional info that can help build the case.

[leewei]

Quick update:

eBay's "High Value Claims" department put this on a 5 day hold for internal review. Not sure what that means but they're apparently reviewing the parties involved.

[Siberian13]

Quick update:

eBay's "High Value Claims" department put this on a 5 day hold for internal review. Not sure what that means but they're apparently reviewing the parties involved.

Whatever happened to swift justice in this world. Hope ebay figures out a way to take care of you. I’m sure they are trying to find a way to also take care of themselves.

[TMILL]

ya'll are quite amazing. username/real names/address/pics. A+ blowout! Hope it works out OP.

[boston12]

I expect this case will fall in your favor, however what a circus. Ebay should be ashamed of themselves for dragging this out.

[golferphil]

I also think their "apology" is BS. If they really felt bad, why would they still be selling with (99%) certainty, the cards in question. To me that is basically giving the OP a big fat middle finger. I know it has been said multiple times, but I am sorry this happened to you OP. This is Horse****!!!

I agree. My guess is they are just throwing out stuff to confuse the issue. Hopefully it gets worked out for you.

[meandsharon11]

Quick update:

eBay's "High Value Claims" department put this on a 5 day hold for internal review. Not sure what that means but they're apparently reviewing the parties involved.


They are weighing their options.

eBay is at the point where their reputation as a selling venue can be damaged with the information that has been brought to them.


They are seeing what their options are and costs involved. Probably having a lawyer look over the information to advise them on the best course of action.

You can be assured whatever they decide it will be the least costly way for them to move on from it.

[mrdallas]

I see the POS seller just listed more NT cards today. SMH. I hope eBay resolves this soon for you.

[blackbears86]

any updates OP????

[LALeakers]

I see the POS seller just listed more NT cards today. SMH. I hope eBay resolves this soon for you.

Unreal....absolute trash in this world

[mhcook]

Unreal....absolute trash in this worldWhat is the thief supposed to do with the cards? Lock them away in the PC so they can cherish the memories of the fun they had opening the case they stole?

[SanAntonioSpurs]

What is the thief supposed to do with the cards? Lock them away in the PC so they can cherish the memories of the fun they had opening the case they stole?

You'd think he would lay low while there's an ongoing investigation. But eBay's piss poor resolution department the thief/scammers still out running free. One day eBay's policies are going to come back and bite them in the ass most likely in the form of a class action lawsuit.

The situation the seller is going through right now is exactly why eBay needs some competition. They're too big right now and with no competition they have no incentive to make improvements to anything.

On that note - I really hope the seller is perusing this to the fullest and getting all agencies involved and not just dealing with eBay/PayPal.

[Broncoboys7]

It appears I purchased one of the NT cards from the secondary account.
Should I provide the email address here associated with the paypal account? A google search of the email has zero responses, so it appears to be a burner account.

[boston12]

I see the POS seller just listed more NT cards today. SMH. I hope eBay resolves this soon for you.

Disgusting. I really hope bad things happen to these two.

[mrdallas]

eBay is becoming a breeding ground for trash. As many others have pointed out, eBay gives sellers absolutely ZERO protection to seller. I have cut my selling back to almost nill because of the crappy buyers I have had to deal with. Here was a thread I started on a doozy buyer I had last year. Guy was scamming me and many of members here.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1165549

Luckily, some of us were able to get our money back. BUT TAKE A LOOK AT HIS FEEDBACK now. If you notice eBay allows buyers to make their feedback private so that we cant see the BS that some of em pull. So even though we all warned people about this guys scam in our feedback ,nobody can see it. WTF. More eBay protection for scammer/bad buyers. What is the point of feedback if nobody can see it. Especially considering seller's cant leave negative feedback.

I hope we keep this thread alive until we see LEEWEI'S success at the end and also to keep this buyer on blast!!

[Onepocketj]

It appears I purchased one of the NT cards from the secondary account.
Should I provide the email address here associated with the paypal account? A google search of the email has zero responses, so it appears to be a burner account.

If u pm it to me I can see if it has ever been used anywhere else.

[boston12]

eBay is becoming a breeding ground for trash. As many others have pointed out, eBay gives sellers absolutely ZERO protection to seller. I have cut my selling back to almost nill because of the crappy buyers I have had to deal with. Here was a thread I started on a doozy buyer I had last year. Guy was scamming me and many of members here.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1165549

Luckily, some of us were able to get our money back. BUT TAKE A LOOK AT HIS FEEDBACK now. If you notice eBay allows buyers to make their feedback private so that we cant see the BS that some of em pull. So even though we all warned people about this guys scam in our feedback ,nobody can see it. WTF. More eBay protection for scammer/bad buyers. What is the point of feedback if nobody can see it. Especially considering seller's cant leave negative feedback.

I hope we keep this thread alive until we see LEEWEI'S success at the end and also to keep this buyer on blast!!

Holy crap what a nightmare! I got scammed on stub hub once as a seller. Very long story but in short sold a pair of tickets for $800 and buyer claimed they didn’t scan. I was out $800 and they got in for free. I have over a hundred sales on stub hub without incident..... it was the buyers first transaction...... It’s not just eBay unfortunately. These companies do nothing to protect the seller NOTHING.

[leewei]

Unfortunately no substantial updates. I contacted ebay yesterday and it sounds like I should hear back by end of week.

[abcrider04]

Damn.. and I was getting ready to make an offer on one of their cards..I always google the names just in case. Linked me right to this thread..overpriced by a long shot anyway!

[discostu]

Unfortunately no substantial updates. I contacted ebay yesterday and it sounds like I should hear back by end of week.

Out of curiosity, if Ebay gets you your money back...are you going to just say, "Phew, that was lucky" and not pursue anything else?

To me, it's crazy that you haven't sought out assistance from any authorities (local, state and federal).

These clowns have clearly robbed people before, and it seems like other victims have handled it without getting anyone else involved...and now here you are...waiting on Ebay.

The best ending to this story is two-fold...you get your money back and they both get another line on their criminal records.

[leewei]

LEs are involved.

BTW, quick update. Lost the case and the $ will be debited from my account. Filing an appeal shortly.

[stang_crazy]

LEs are involved.

BTW, quick update. Lost the case and the $ will be debited from my account. Filing an appeal shortly.


Lost the case WTF!!!!!!!

[boston12]

LEs are involved.

BTW, quick update. Lost the case and the $ will be debited from my account. Filing an appeal shortly.

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding. Me. How in the world could you lose the case. I hope to god the authorities do something about this

[SanAntonioSpurs]

LEs are involved.

BTW, quick update. Lost the case and the $ will be debited from my account. Filing an appeal shortly.

How do you lose the case when they openly admitted what they did in eBay messages? If that doesn't show eBays true colors I don't know what will. But you're better than I am. If I was in your spot the next person I'd be going after is eBay.

[RogerGodahell]

Wow that's some b.s. Don't give up

[TASS]

How do you lose the case when they openly admitted what they did in eBay messages? If that doesn't show eBays true colors I don't know what will. But you're better than I am. If I was in your spot the next person I'd be going after is eBay.

I'll go one step further I think I would be buying a plane ticket!

[kingsjason55]

I'll go one step further I think I would be buying a plane ticket!Same.....

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[LALeakers]

WTF. OP, please keep pushing.

This is unbelievable.

[Siberian13]

eBay, another failure for the hobby. This hobby is doomed with Panini and eBay running the show. lol :)

[abcrider04]

Smh...

[kingsjason55]

eBay, another failure for the hobby. This hobby is doomed with Panini and eBay running the show. lol :)LOL yep.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[iwinsnatch]

Bro.... That is unreal!

[abcrider04]

Someone hack eBay, make it disappear !

[fact81]

Definitely speak with law enforcement, not even kidding. You have a case(no pun intended). You also have a well established forum that is arguably the "largest" for sports cards with multiple multiple multiple experts in the hobby/field that can back you.

Ebay is like MTV, they will take a $1K - 2K hit once(they can afford it) once the authorities are involved. Mark my words

[meandsharon11]

To everyone who has posted in this thread. After watching all of this and seeing the posted result it has hit a serious nerve with me. NOBODY should be asking the OP what else he/she is doing to help prevent this from happening to others. EVERYONE in this thread who has posted in favor of the OP should be doing something right now. Any of you that have an EBAY account should be removing every listing and stopping all purchases going forward. If this is really a hobby to us then why aren’t we doing everything we can do also?


Right after this post I am ending all listings I have and stopping all activity on EBAY. The only action I will be taking after that is sending EBAY an email stating what I am doing and the reasons for it. Anyone who really feels how they are posting I would advise doing the same. There are hundreds of members here who have seen this if not posted. That amount of accounts going inactive while messaging EBAY about it will trigger a response.

I am not saying to do this to get a response. I am suggesting doing this to do something about what so many here have already expressed. Acting upon the words we chose to use. Otherwise those words are hollow and worthless. I am suggesting this to help the OP, everyone before and after this who encounters these problems, and ourselves from this happening to us for the first time or again.

[highlaem]

To everyone who has posted in this thread. After watching all of this and seeing the posted result it has hit a serious nerve with me. NOBODY should be asking the OP what else he/she is doing to help prevent this from happening to others. EVERYONE in this thread who has posted in favor of the OP should be doing something right now. Any of you that have an EBAY account should be removing every listing and stopping all purchases going forward. If this is really a hobby to us then why aren’t we doing everything we can do also?


Right after this post I am ending all listings I have and stopping all activity on EBAY. The only action I will be taking after that is sending EBAY an email stating what I am doing and the reasons for it. Anyone who really feels how they are posting I would advise doing the same. There are hundreds of members here who have seen this if not posted. That amount of accounts going inactive while messaging EBAY about it will trigger a response.

I am not saying to do this to get a response. I am suggesting doing this to do something about what so many here have already expressed. Acting upon the words we chose to use. Otherwise those words are hollow and worthless. I am suggesting this to help the OP, everyone before and after this who encounters these problems, and ourselves from this happening to us for the first time or again.This a wonderful thought, but I feel like this like the milk dumps that some farmers have tried. They lost more money and not enough of a movement to make a difference. I agree with everything said here. Getting the authorities is the only type of cthing that will work. Set a precedent on how to handle a buyer like this and then be able to show in the future steps to take to get resolved. Ebay is the wild west - seller beware.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Siberian13]

To everyone who has posted in this thread. After watching all of this and seeing the posted result it has hit a serious nerve with me. NOBODY should be asking the OP what else he/she is doing to help prevent this from happening to others. EVERYONE in this thread who has posted in favor of the OP should be doing something right now. Any of you that have an EBAY account should be removing every listing and stopping all purchases going forward. If this is really a hobby to us then why aren’t we doing everything we can do also?


Right after this post I am ending all listings I have and stopping all activity on EBAY. The only action I will be taking after that is sending EBAY an email stating what I am doing and the reasons for it. Anyone who really feels how they are posting I would advise doing the same. There are hundreds of members here who have seen this if not posted. That amount of accounts going inactive while messaging EBAY about it will trigger a response.

I am not saying to do this to get a response. I am suggesting doing this to do something about what so many here have already expressed. Acting upon the words we chose to use. Otherwise those words are hollow and worthless. I am suggesting this to help the OP, everyone before and after this who encounters these problems, and ourselves from this happening to us for the first time or again.

It’s like boycotting Poopnini. Will never happen and nothing will change. Sucks though. I haven’t sold one thing with eBay. J

[ninjacookies]

I know this really sucks, OP. But in a way it could be a Godsend. Getting the LEO's in full participation is what these scumbags need. Too bad child services isn't an option as well.

Ebay is an increasingly growing cesspool that continues to remove the rights and protection of its sellers.

[meandsharon11]

This a wonderful thought, but I feel like this like the milk dumps that some farmers have tried. They lost more money and not enough of a movement to make a difference. I agree with everything said here. Getting the authorities is the only type of cthing that will work. Set a precedent on how to handle a buyer like this and then be able to show in the future steps to take to get resolved. Ebay is the wild west - seller beware.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



It may not, but it will stop me from having this problem and anyone else who does the same.


People come and go all the time, but if EBAY is receiving notification from members closing their accounts (this will have to be done to have the ability to send them a documented message) that it is due to these thing happening the numbers will work themselves up the chain. It has to be documented why someone choses to close an account. Most people chose other or not to type anything out. If you do it will categorize it and after e certain number in the same category it will flag it for review higher up.


The problem is most talk about it and less than 10% will actually do this. To be honest I would rather walk away from them if this is how they conduct business. IF they fix the problem then I can always go back. If we all sit around and talk big but never actually do anything then we aren't worth the space we are taking up in these forums. At some point we have to act on our words or things like this just keep going on, and all we do is whine about it like a bunch of babies. Starting threads for people to post how SOMEONE should do something. EVERYONE IS SOMEONE. EVERYONE should be doing something, and if that happens then it will garner real results and change.

[RogerGodahell]

This a wonderful thought, but I feel like this like the milk dumps that some farmers have tried. They lost more money and not enough of a movement to make a difference. I agree with everything said here. Getting the authorities is the only type of cthing that will work. Set a precedent on how to handle a buyer like this and then be able to show in the future steps to take to get resolved. Ebay is the wild west - seller beware.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Yep it's a good thought but card collectors are like a grain of sand on a beach to eBay.

[leewei]

"We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund.

We understand that you received your item in a different condition than when you shipped it, but unfortunately we couldn't determine that this was caused by the buyer, or that this was something in the buyer's control.

A refund of US $3,400.00 was issued on Apr 19, 2018 to the buyer. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping.

This amount will be debited from the payment method on your account."


I really hate scammers but ebay has some liability here. This really isn't right.

[smsportscards]

I would seek legal advise. The buyer admitted in writing what they did. I would go after both the buyer and eBay.

[hawkeyecards]

It's terrible, sorry man. It seems like such a clear cut case. Maybe with all the sales eBay does they should hire someone in charge of each category to heck over this stuff. I'm assuming people not in the cards hobby or business has no idea what this means. I'm sure you'll get your money back, just going to take awhile. It's obvious eBay doesn't really care about the seller and if all the people in this forum quit selling on eBay, I'm sure it'll have no effect on their business. Is PWCC or Probstein going to quit for this and leave all their money hanging? What about Steel City, Dave and Adams and Burbank? Probably not. Hopefully the law will side with you but you'll probably have to go to small claims court which will make you out money as well right? Or do they have to cover your fees and expenses? Good luck with it all.

Also, I don't get why people are saying call child protective services about this. What are they going to do? Do they get called every time someone gets an OWI or commits a violent crime? Do they do anything if they do get called?

[boston12]

This really makes me sick. I do think this has more to do with the eBay person not understanding the hobby and sealed cases / boxes. You didn’t just receive the item in a different condition. It was opened and missing the entire contents (the buyer admitted that!). It’s the same as buying a new TV. Taking the TV out and shipping back an empty box. Would eBay side with the buyer in that situation? Unbelievable. The buyer is probably laughing right now. But they are going to end up in a worse situation I’m sure once it’s over (I hope)

[SanAntonioSpurs]

I would seek legal advise. The buyer admitted in writing what they did. I would go after both the buyer and eBay.

This. Ebay gave you a canned reply even after the scammer admitted in writing what he did. Ebay expects you do just roll over and take it like most ppl do. That's the biggest problem with eBay, they're too big and deal with so many issues they just put them on autopilot and the buyer wins 99.9% of the time.

In the mean time the scammer is laughing at both you and eBay.

[ninjacookies]

At the very least you should get your money back in small claims court. I've read of several people who have taken Ebay to small claims (which basically costs you very little aside from your time), and most of the time either Ebay settles or their lawyers never show up to defend. Your case appears to be a slam dunk as you have written evidence to support your claims.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/feb/17/ebay-goes-wrong-debt-collectors

I'd fully suggest going this route in addition to pursuing criminal punishment on the buyer(s).

[Sharard]

Something like this I might have considered an escrow service if that was possible. I never sell on eBay on what I cannot afford to lose. Too bad fed ex or ups don’t have like a tamper proof package program with eBay. eBay should really demand the buyer on any returns over a certain amount like 1500 area, have go into a fed ex or ups and show what they are shipping back. I bet this stop lot of this crap. Sorry OP.

And I always video tape any package returns, from where I get it to where I open it. .. this has helped me a few times with claims.

[meandsharon11]

At the very least you should get your money back in small claims court. I've read of several people who have taken Ebay to small claims (which basically costs you very little aside from your time), and most of the time either Ebay settles or their lawyers never show up to defend. Your case appears to be a slam dunk as you have written evidence to support your claims.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/feb/17/ebay-goes-wrong-debt-collectors

I'd fully suggest going this route in addition to pursuing criminal punishment on the buyer(s).


This right here 1000%

[cking]

"We reviewed this case and decided to issue the buyer a full refund.

We understand that you received your item in a different condition than when you shipped it, but unfortunately we couldn't determine that this was caused by the buyer, or that this was something in the buyer's control.

A refund of US $3,400.00 was issued on Apr 19, 2018 to the buyer. The refund includes the purchase price plus original shipping.

This amount will be debited from the payment method on your account."


I really hate scammers but ebay has some liability here. This really isn't right.

Sorry to hear this. I hope this dont push you away from the hobby.

For the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could do this to someone and look at themselves in the mirror with any dignity at all.

I am not sure how I would react if someone did this to me. You are taking it alot better then I or most others would.

I would probably be flipping out..thinking of all kinds of devious things to do to this slimeball.

It would be my lifes mission to get my money back from this jackwad. I would not stop until I did.

I really hope this works out for you and please keep this thread alive and updated. I really am interested and curious as to how this will play out.

There is alot of good, smart people on this forum who can and will offer some advice for you I am sure.

Good luck.:)!

[adamblumy]

This is just so wrong. Ebay is so pathetic for siding with the buyer but it shows that they will side with the buyer NO MATTER WHAT. Even when they admit to committing a crime. Sorry for all the BS you have to put up with OP. Reading crap like this and having to deal with the nightmare of ebay myself makes me want to boycott it also. I really hope you are able to get your money back in court.

[sethc1020]

I would seek legal advise. The buyer admitted in writing what they did. I would go after both the buyer and eBay.
Do this 10000%!!! I can't believe it hasn't came up sooner, you have a clear cut case as the buyer admitted to what they did in writing! If you haven't already I would screen shot or print every message you had with these criminals especially through Ebay. This every well could start a Class Action lawsuit as many many many people have been scammed on Ebay and Ebay has done Jack $hit about it!

[HeadstrongRSS]

No one will boycott because there's no ebay alternative to sell your stuff. The market demands an ebay exist or everyone will be sitting on their product.

[mrdallas]

Holy **** I am sorry to hear this. WTF. I am curious if you have reached out to the buyer yet after this BS decision? Ask them, if they really felt terrible about what they did, then they need to send the money back to you. They can still make it right by sending you your money. Will it happen. Probably not, but worth a shot. The buyer admitted what they did so if they do not send you back the money then obviously they don't care. So sorry, this just keeps getting worse.

[meandsharon11]

No one will boycott because there's no ebay alternative to sell your stuff. The market demands an ebay exist or everyone will be sitting on their product.



the people, us, are the market. you demand ebay. you can sell here and on other sites like this. if you're worried about the $ then this isn't a hobby for you. I want to recover as much as I can from what I sell, but the fact is you are going to lose money no matter what. There are ebay alternatives, so the people that chose to continue without action are only concerned about the money. Not the hobby or the people in it.

Just want to make sure and clarify that so we aren't lying to ourselves.

[RogerGodahell]

Sorry to hear this. I hope this dont push you away from the hobby.

For the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could do this to someone and look at themselves in the mirror with any dignity at all.

I am not sure how I would react if someone did this to me. You are taking it alot better then I or most others would.

I would probably be flipping out..thinking of all kinds of devious things to do to this slimeball.

It would be my lifes mission to get my money back from this jackwad. I would not stop until I did.

I really hope this works out for you and please keep this thread alive and updated. I really am interested and curious as to how this will play out.

There is alot of good, smart people on this forum who can and will offer some advice for you I am sure.

Good luck.:)!

Me to. I would show up unannounced at their workplace and make a scene for starters. That is if they have a job. Humiliation seems like a good tactic.

P.S. Im hoping the slimeball is reading this and it scares them straight.

[meandsharon11]

Me to. I would show up unannounced at their workplace and make a scene for starters. That is if they have a job. Humiliation seems like a good tactic.

P.S. Im hoping the slimeball is reading this and it scares them straight.


why would it scare him? he's just been refunded and reinforced his actions through ebay. Almost nobody here is doing anything but posting about it. He's sitting behind his computer laughing at this while he turns around to do it to someone else.

[RogerGodahell]

why would it scare him? he's just been refunded and reinforced his actions through ebay. Almost nobody here is doing anything but posting about it. He's sitting behind his computer laughing at this while he turns around to do it to someone else.

He might be scared someone will show up at his workplace and start making a scene about him being a thief in front of all of his co workers. Would you wan't someone to do this to you at your job? I know i wouldn't.

[socal805]

Honestly speaking...you can still get your $$$ back. As others have mentioned, eBay just thinks you'll "roll over" as I'm sure most peeps do. Go the extra mile and I'm 100% sure you'll at least get your money back.

Sent from my N9519 using Tapatalk

[meandsharon11]

He might be scared someone will show up at his workplace and start making a scene about him being a thief in front of all of his co workers. Would you wan't someone to do this to you at your job? I know i wouldn't.



A: I wouldn't be in that position

B: Anyone that smart enough won't do this. With cell phones and social media at our fingertips it's just as likely to backfire. All they would have to do is report to local law enforcement and an officer would be there in 5 minutes or less to remove him from the building. Unfortunately this is the same system at work against him.


If he seeks legal action in small claims court I would advise the following. IF you have copies of all messages from and to the buyer, including the message from the buyer admitting guilt (multiple copies), and pictures of the opened merchandise upon receiving it then I would file in small claims court. Considering the amount of the claim it would be safe to assume that there is a real chance they will at least respond to the citation. IF EBay responds and offers to "SETTLE" outside of court be careful what you chose. IF you "SETTLE" then once the suit is final you can no longer use EBay's name with anything that has to do with that case ever again.

[RogerGodahell]

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.

[packman80]

Hope you take Ebay and buyer to small claims court OP. You got screwed. Also if you can include any money for all time you spent taking care of this.

[sethc1020]

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking for ransom I can tell you I don't have money, but what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you.
Love it! Great Movie!

[leewei]

Thanks everyone. Again I'll refrain from posting additional actions I'll be taking but rest assured I'll continue to pursue things until things are made right.

[NickM]

If he seeks legal action in small claims court I would advise the following. IF you have copies of all messages from and to the buyer, including the message from the buyer admitting guilt (multiple copies), and pictures of the opened merchandise upon receiving it then I would file in small claims court. Considering the amount of the claim it would be safe to assume that there is a real chance they will at least respond to the citation. IF EBay responds and offers to "SETTLE" outside of court be careful what you chose. IF you "SETTLE" then once the suit is final you can no longer use EBay's name with anything that has to do with that case ever again.

That part about settling is not good advice, mainly because it's nowhere near accurate. Many settlements do not include confidentiality clauses or nondisclosure agreements. Talk to an actual lawyer in whatever state you're considering filing the lawsuit in about this.

[CardMonopoly]

File a civil lawsuit against the buyer for breach of contract and fraud.

Giving this same evidence to law enforcement and hoping they refer the case to the DA to initiate a criminal proceeding could be hopeless. They have bigger fish to fry and probably wouldn’t do anything unless the evidence is overwhelmingly clear. The evidence may seem that way to us, but to people outside of the hobby who don’t know cards and the scams that people run, it probably doesn’t seem as clear to them.

Besides, criminal prosecution requires evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for conviction — a very high standard. A civil lawsuit only requires a preponderance of the evidence — a much lower standard.

I’m not sure a lawsuit against eBay would do much either. They have policies which you probably agreed to in the fine print when you sign up to sell on eBay regarding their liability or going to arbitration.

Seems to me that a civil lawsuit against the buyer would be the easiest way to go.

Just my two cents from some internet rando.

Disclosure: this is not legal advice.

[CardMonopoly]

Start a go fund me too. I bet a lot of people on this board would chip in for your legal fees and costs. If people are serious about discouraging scammers from continuing to do this then somebody needs to make an example out of this guy. Sounds like you have the evidence to do it if it gets put to good use and you have the money to follow through on the legal process.

[Grid]

That part about settling is not good advice, mainly because it's nowhere near accurate. Many settlements do not include confidentiality clauses or nondisclosure agreements. Talk to an actual lawyer in whatever state you're considering filing the lawsuit in about this.

Correct, it just removed that party from further litigation. It is silly to think that if you settle with ebay, any and all evidence gather on their website, could not be used to pursue further litigation against another party.

All it would do is remove ebay from having to testify further or be held liable for any other damages resulting in this case.

But I would add, if you are made whole by ebays settlement, the judge might consider your case complete. And no further litigation against the actual thief would move forward. Assuming this would be heard as a Property Damages case.

Unless OP can somehow prove harm from all parties and seek monetary damages from all involved that is.

But if they are out $3K, and ebay gives them back $3K, the judge might view the Plaintiff as "whole" and any other money award would be profit above and beyond what they were seeking.

If someone took your $500 watch. You cant claim for $5,000. Only the value of the watch, and any emotional (change of life style due to the event, panic, stress or other mental ailments related to) or collateral damage if you can prove it (court costs, lawyer fees, ETC)

Suing someone over theft is not a means to print money from everyone around you. It is a way to recoup what you have lost.

I'd pursue personal damages through ebay, since they gave your money to someone else. And then I would pursue criminal actions against the person that scammed.

[TASS]

Thanks everyone. Again I'll refrain from posting additional actions I'll be taking but rest assured I'll continue to pursue things until things are made right.

That's the right attitude!!

As someone said earlier in this thread DO NOT stop contacting Ebay.

I was in a similar situation for far less money, however my persistence in calling them DAILY finally got me directed to an individual who did the right thing and the Case was closed in my favor, full refund!

[CardMonopoly]

I'd pursue personal damages through ebay, since they gave your money to someone else. And then I would pursue criminal actions against the person that scammed.

What’s the cause of action against eBay?

And to be clear, eBay didn’t give OP’s money to someone else. That someone else got a refund and OP got back empty tins. There’s a difference. And an important difference when OP pleads his suit.

[iwinsnatch]

The people who did this to you are criminals. They literally went into your wallet, took $3k+, then left a fat dump for you by selling your merchandise on their eBay account. They should be prosecuted for theft. If I went in a bank and took $3k out of a register I'm getting locked up, no doubt about it. I live in California and on the news today a woman took a $40 tip jar from a donut shop, she is going to do time. No way the people who ripped you off aren't going to not do time. This is serious theft and there is no way this isn't the first time they have done it. Put their name on blast, their pictures up, hell make a webpage about them, that way anytime anyone googles them all they see is the thieving snakes that they are.

[Grid]

What’s the cause of action against eBay?

And to be clear, eBay didn’t give OP’s money to someone else. That someone else got a refund and OP got back empty tins. There’s a difference. And an important difference when OP pleads his suit.

To be clear, ebay put a hold on the sellers funds. They then released those funds to someone else. Someone that admitted guilt, but milked the system anyway.

ebay did not act an in impartial jury. Even though ebay has a Seller protection plan, they did not do their due diligence to review all evidence. ebay provided a sales platform and promised a Seller protection policy. One in which ebay did not actively review all evidence that was submitted by the seller.

All ebay had to do was verify that a message, one in which was submitted via their site, was sent. And they would have seen an admission of guilt. Clearly they did not do this.

Since ebay acted as a conduit for the sale. And since ebay released the sellers funds back to the buyer, without reviewing all evidence, ebay could very well be held liable.

If the buyer came to the sellers house and stole back the money, ebay is fine. Since ebay handled both the dispute and the funds, one could obviously argue they are to blame for mismanaging both, if the screen grabs we saw are to be believed.

Platforms such as Craiglist could not be held liable in a situation like this. They do not review claims, transfer currencies from one to another or provide any safeguard policies to someone using their service. But ebay does.

If ebay wrongly closed the case against the seller. And ebay allowed for this scam to take place, with no safeguards surrounding the seller. And ebay then turned over someones else's funds to another. It could absolutely be argued that they are liable for devising such a site that could easily be manipulated and cause harm (loss of personal property) against someone.

[Grid]

I'd add that ebay also provided a means for the scammer to then resell potential stolen merchandise. Further perpetrating these actions, that caused harm to the seller, and can be held liable.

IF the seller informed ebay that the buyer could in fact be selling their merchandise.

A lot of "ifs" in regards to all this. That is why everything is laid out in front of the judge/jury

[CardMonopoly]

To be clear, ebay put a hold on the sellers funds. They then released those funds to someone else. Someone that admitted guilt, but milked the system anyway.

ebay did not act an in impartial jury. Even though ebay has a Seller protection plan, they did not do their due diligence to review all evidence. ebay provided a sales platform and promised a Seller protection policy. One in which ebay did not actively review all evidence that was submitted by the seller.

All ebay had to do was verify that a message, one in which was submitted via their site, was sent. And they would have seen an admission of guilt. Clearly they did not do this.

Since ebay acted as a conduit for the sale. And since ebay released the sellers funds back to the buyer, without reviewing all evidence, ebay could very well be held liable.

If the buyer came to the sellers house and stole back the money, ebay is fine. Since ebay handled both the dispute and the funds, one could obviously argue they are to blame for mismanaging both, if the screen grabs we saw are to be believed.

Platforms such as Craiglist could not be held liable in a situation like this. They do not review claims, transfer currencies from one to another or provide any safeguard policies to someone using their service. But ebay does.

If ebay wrongly closed the case against the seller. And ebay allowed for this scam to take place, with no safeguards surrounding the seller. And ebay then turned over someones else's funds to another. It could absolutely be argued that they are liable for devising such a site that could easily be manipulated and cause harm (loss of personal property) against someone.

I'd add that ebay also provided a means for the scammer to then resell potential stolen merchandise. Further perpetrating these actions, that caused harm to the seller, and can be held liable.

IF the seller informed ebay that the buyer could in fact be selling their merchandise.

A lot of "ifs" in regards to all this. That is why everything is laid out in front of the judge/jury

Apparently people have sued eBay before... and they've failed.

You can read about it here:

Maggie Campbell v. eBay and Paypal
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/31/your-money/lesson-from-a-doughnut-fryer-debacle-let-the-ebay-seller-beware.html

Judge's Ruling on Docket #16 Motion to Dismiss
https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20130906696

Complete Docket
https://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/5:2013cv02632/266982

In summary, it Maggie Campbell had her case against eBay dismissed. It sounds like the terms of service (TOS) and user agreement that sellers agree to to sell on eBay contain a clause which says that buyers and sellers allow eBay to decide disputes in its discretion. I have not read eBay's fine print, but I have no reason to doubt that such language is probably in there since any good attorney would put that in there.

OP can try and sue eBay. Allege breach of contract, breach of good faith and fair dealing, fraud, conversion, negligence, whatever else you think will stick, but it doesn't look like anything will stick.

I still think that OP's best bet is a civil suit against the buyer.

Disclosure: Not legal advice.

[CardMonopoly]

Here's eBay's User Agreement:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#15.%20Release (https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behaviour-policies/user-agreement?id=4259#15.%20Release)

There is an arbitration agreement. Nevertheless, you can still sue eBay on an individual basis, and only in small claims court. (Section 17.B) Furthermore, if you do sue eBay, you have to do it in Salt Lake County, Utah. (Section 17.C) And sellers also agree that if they have a dispute with another user, that they release eBay from liability and damages. (Section 15.)

Good luck to OP if he tries to sue eBay but it's going to be an uphill battle. I think the OP should be pragmatic and stick with a civil suit against the buyer.

Disclosure: Not legal advice.

[RogerGodahell]

I like the physical presence approach. I'll get my money's worth one way or another. This is not legal advice, just what i personally might do in your situation.

[meandsharon11]

Correct, it just removed that party from further litigation. It is silly to think that if you settle with ebay, any and all evidence gather on their website, could not be used to pursue further litigation against another party.

All it would do is remove ebay from having to testify further or be held liable for any other damages resulting in this case.

But I would add, if you are made whole by ebays settlement, the judge might consider your case complete. And no further litigation against the actual thief would move forward. Assuming this would be heard as a Property Damages case.

Unless OP can somehow prove harm from all parties and seek monetary damages from all involved that is.

But if they are out $3K, and ebay gives them back $3K, the judge might view the Plaintiff as "whole" and any other money award would be profit above and beyond what they were seeking.

If someone took your $500 watch. You cant claim for $5,000. Only the value of the watch, and any emotional (change of life style due to the event, panic, stress or other mental ailments related to) or collateral damage if you can prove it (court costs, lawyer fees, ETC)

Suing someone over theft is not a means to print money from everyone around you. It is a way to recoup what you have lost.

I'd pursue personal damages through ebay, since they gave your money to someone else. And then I would pursue criminal actions against the person that scammed.




If you read my post to its entirety the very end I stated they would not be able to use any information against EBAY. I NEVER stated they would not be able to use any information against the buyer. Those are 2 separate cases.

If they do go after ebay, however, they will not be able to take the buyer to court for the same case. Only for personal/punitive damages. This is why I was stating to be careful about accepting a settlement offer from EBay prior to court unless it's for the full amount they lost.

And yes EBay, as a large corporation, will have a clause in the contract prohibiting the Plaintiff from using any information from that case against EBay for defamation or slanderous purposes. This is standard in any case against any business in which an individual accepts a payment amount to satisfy the grievance. This has nothing to do with a separate case against the buyer.

[meandsharon11]

I like the physical presence approach. I'll get my money's worth one way or another. This is not legal advice, just what i personally might do in your situation.



That's the Clint Eastwood approach lol

[JVO]

Any luck today?

[broncomanning18]

I just read this whole thing, wow, Ebay should be ashamed of themselves. How do they allow this crap to go on, its disgusting. Good luck OP do not give up

[NickM]

If you read my post to its entirety the very end I stated they would not be able to use any information against EBAY. I NEVER stated they would not be able to use any information against the buyer. Those are 2 separate cases.

If they do go after ebay, however, they will not be able to take the buyer to court for the same case. Only for personal/punitive damages. This is why I was stating to be careful about accepting a settlement offer from EBay prior to court unless it's for the full amount they lost.

And yes EBay, as a large corporation, will have a clause in the contract prohibiting the Plaintiff from using any information from that case against EBay for defamation or slanderous purposes. This is standard in any case against any business in which an individual accepts a payment amount to satisfy the grievance. This has nothing to do with a separate case against the buyer.

Seriously, stop trying to talk law. You're making the guy from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia sound competent.

[Burt-Reynolds]

Man, just read this whole thing and am disgusted. I got screwed by ebay recently, but it’s not even a drop in the ocean compared to this. So sorry to the OP.

However in researching my situation I found this article from the Guardian, seems they have a pretty good track record of keeping ebay accountable and getting refunds for seller who have been screwed like you have. OP, maybe you want to contact the author of this article or email someone there. Sounds like this would be the type of story they would love to get into.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/21/ebay-accused-failing-sellers-buyers-manipulate-system-protection

Also contact some of the local news channels out here in the Los Angeles area, they love doing these type of investigative reporting stories sometimes. Maybe they could expose these two scumbags and make them famous.

[meandsharon11]

Man, just read this whole thing and am disgusted. I got screwed by ebay recently, but it’s not even a drop in the ocean compared to this. So sorry to the OP.

However in researching my situation I found this article from the Guardian, seems they have a pretty good track record of keeping ebay accountable and getting refunds for seller who have been screwed like you have. OP, maybe you want to contact the author of this article or email someone there. Sounds like this would be the type of story they would love to get into.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/21/ebay-accused-failing-sellers-buyers-manipulate-system-protection

Also contact some of the local news channels out here in the Los Angeles area, they love doing these type of investigative reporting stories sometimes. Maybe they could expose these two scumbags and make them famous.


As I stated the only way to fix this is stop using eBay to sell, but it seems it’s easier to find 20 excuses not to than it is to just stop selling.

[mrdallas]

Speaking of this thread. Anything new on the front Leewei?

[Burt-Reynolds]

As I stated the only way to fix this is stop using eBay to sell, but it seems it’s easier to find 20 excuses not to than it is to just stop selling.

That's a noble thought and everything, but highly unrealistic. Even if the whole sportscards community boycotted eBay tomorrow it would barely make a blip on eBays bottom line.

It's also not gonna help this person in this instance. Getting some media attention on this however will force eBays hand to admit they f'ed up and give them their money back, as they have a track record of tucking tail when a light gets shone on their jackass business methods. Also the more negative media attention on eBay the more likely they will look at their flaws and maybe change them.

[Archangel1775]

eBay is failing sellers. I already knew the seller was going to get screwed because the way the "system" is automated, which includes the customer service responses. It's ridiculous. I hope they go bye bye eventually.

[mrdallas]

Anything new on this front? Sorry for bumping the thread again, but really curious if seller is still trying to recoup anything. Plus, want this buyer to stay on blast.

[stang_crazy]

Have ya gotten anywhere on this whole mess?

[mrdallas]

Just checking the thread again hoping you got some good news for us to hear.

[packman80]

So OP any update?

[mrdallas]

Yeah I am curious if we have any updates. Looks like the original scammer moved the majority of his stolen cards to their other eBay account. SMH

https://www.ebay.com/sch/scsexpress/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

[iwinsnatch]

The fact this guy is still selling makes me sick... he should be blacklisted and exposed for all of the fraud he is committing.

[mrdallas]

The fact this guy is still selling makes me sick... he should be blacklisted and exposed for all of the fraud he is committing.

To me. The fact that eBay was given all the evidence showing this POS scammed the OP, sided with the buyer and is ultimately allowing them to sell stolen cards is adding insult to injury and utterly ridiculous. Total BS

[briancecilrn]

Been a couple months, anything new here? I know this isn't the movies but I was hoping someone that lives near this douche would pay him/her a visit or at least look into the possible hobby shop connection.

I understand the OP prob doesn't want to post much if he's pursuing legal actions, good luck OP, hope these ppl get what they deserve/

[CardMonopoly]

I'm still subscribed to this thread for updates, and hope to see justice prevail.