All-Star Game Rosters

[EricTownsend88]

I've had a pretty rough couple of days and tonight was one of those "I need to focus on something and keep my mind busy before I go crazy" nights. I thought it would be fun to look at everyone's stats and try and predict the 2018 All-Star Game rosters. Here's what I have:

American League Starters:
C Gary Sanchez, NYY
1B Jose Abreu, CWS
2B Jose Altuve, HOU
3B Jose Ramirez, CLE
SS Manny Machado, BAL
OF Mookie Betts, BOS
OF Mike Trout, LAA
OF Aaron Judge, NYY
DH J.D. Martinez, BOS
SP Justin Verlander, HOU

National League Starters:
C J.T. Realmuto, MIA
1B Freddie Freeman, ATL
2B Scooter Gennett, CIN
3B Nolan Arenado, COL
SS Trea Turner, WAS
OF Charlie Blackmon, COL
OF A.J. Pollock, ARZ
OF Odubel Herrera, PHI
DH Joey Votto, CIN
SP Max Sherzer, WAS

American League Reserves:
C Salvador Perez, KC
C Wilson Ramos, TB
1B Miguel Cabrera, DET
1B Mitch Moreland, BOS
2B Whitt Merrifield, KC
3B Mike Moustakas, KC
SS Francisco Lindor, CLE
SS Andrelton Simmons, LAA
OF Michael Brantley, CLE
OF George Springer, HOU
OF Andrew Benintendi, BOS
OF Nick Castellanos, DET
UT Yangervis Solarte, TOR
UT Gleyber Torres, NYY
P Gerrit Cole, HOU
P Corey Kluber, CLE
P Luis Severino, NYY
P Edwin Diaz, SEA
P Sean Manaea, OAK
P Blake Snell, TB
P Jose Berrios, MIN
P Chris Sale, BOS
P Bartolo Colon, TEX
P/DH Shohei Ohtani, LAA

National League Reserves:
C Yasmani Grandal, LAD
C Francisco Cervelli, PIT
1B Brandon Belt, SF
2B Ozzie Albies, ATL
3B Kris Bryant, CHC
SS Brandon Crawford, SF
OF Lorenzo Cain, MIL
OF Starling Marte, PIT
OF Tommy Pham, STL
OF Nick Markakis, ATL
UT Buster Posey, SF
UT Javier Baez, CHC
UT Asdrubal Cabrera, NYM
P Josh Hader, MIL
P Jacob DeGrom, NYM
P Sean Doolittle, WAS
P Wade Davis, COL
P Patrick Corbin, ARZ
P Aaron Nola, PHI
P Brad Hand, SD
P Clayton Kershaw, LAD
P Stephen Strasburg, WAS
P Zack Greinke, ARZ
P Carlos Martinez, STL

-------------------------------------------------------------

****UPDATED PROJECTED ROSTERS 6/29****

American League Starters:
C Wilson Ramos, TB
1B Jose Abreu, CWS
2B Jose Altuve, HOU
3B Jose Ramirez, CLE
SS Francisco Lindor, CLE
OF Mookie Betts, BOS
OF Mike Trout, LAA
OF Eddie Rosario, MIN
DH J.D. Martinez, BOS
SP Justin Verlander, HOU

National League Starters:
C J.T. Realmuto, MIA
1B Freddie Freeman, ATL
2B Ozzie Albies, ATL
3B Nolan Arenado, COL
SS Trevor Story, COL
OF Odubel Herrera, PHI
OF Charlie Blackmon, COL
OF Nick Markakis, ATL
DH Jesus Aguilar, MIL
SP Max Sherzer, WAS

American League Reserves:
C Yan Gomes, CLE
C Evan Gattis, HOU
1B Matt Olson, OAK
2B Yangervis Solarte, TOR
3B Alex Bregman, HOU
SS Andrelton Simmons, LAA
SS Jean Segura, SEA
OF Andrew Benintendi, BOS
OF Michael Brantley, CLE
OF Nick Castellanos, DET
OF Shin-Soo Choo, TEX
UT Manny Machado, BAL
UT Whit Merrifield, KC
P Corey Kluber, CLE
P Luis Severino, NYY
P Gerrit Cole, HOU
P Jose Berrios, MIN
P Chris Sale, BOS
P Edwin Diaz, SEA
P Sean Manaea, OAK
P Craig Kimbrel, BOS
P Blake Snell, TB
P Trevor Bauer, CLE

National League Reserves:
C Buster Posey, SF
C Yadier Molina, STL
1B Joey Votto, CIN
1B Paul Goldschmidt, ARZ
2B Scooter Gennett, CIN
2B Asdrubal Cabrera, NYM
3B Eugenio Suarez, CIN
SS Brandon Crawford, SF
SS Trea Turner, WAS
OF Lorenzo Cain, MIL
OF Matt Kemp, LA
OF Starling Marte, PIT
UT Javier Baez, CHC
UT Jose Martinez, STL
P Jacob DeGrom, MIL
P Josh Hader, MIL
P Aaron Nola, PHI
P Kirby Yates, SD
P Adam Ottavino, COL
P Sean Doolittle, WAS
P Archie Bradley, ARZ
P Mike Foltynewicz, ATL
P Patrick Corbin, ARZ

[tchronis24]

What about Kemp?

[babybull]

Miles Mikolaus??

[corockies]

No Bryce Harper? Sure...

Adam Ottavino should be on your list - he's been phenomenal.

[Hollywood42]

I'll give it a shot

AL starters-

C- Gary Sanchez
1B- Jose Abreu
2B- Jose Altuve
3B- Jose Ramirez
SS- Manny Machado
OF- Mookie Betts
OF- Mike Trout
OF- JD Martinez
SP- Justin Verlander

AL reserves-

C- Wilson Ramos
1B- Mitch Moreland
1B- Yonder Alonso
2B- Whit Merrifield
2B- Brian Dozier
3B- Mike Moustakas
3B- Yangervis Solarte
SS- Andreleton Simmins
SS- Francisco Lindor
OF- Andrew Benintendi
OF- Aaron Judge
OF- Michael Brantley
OF- George Springer
Utility- Jean Segura
Utility- Didi Gregorius
P- Gerrit Cole
P- Corey Kluber
P- Chris Sale
P- Luis Severino
P- James Paxton
P- Trevor Bauer
P- Charlie Morton
P- Edwin Diaz
P- Jose Berrios
P- Shohei Ohtani

NL starters-

C- Francisco Cervelli
1B- Freddie Freeman
2B- Ozzie Albies
3B- Nolan Arenado
SS- Trea Turner
OF- Bryce Harper
OF- Nick Markakis
OF- Charlie Blackmon
SP- Max Scherzer

NL reserves-

C- Buster Posey
1B- Brandon Belt
1B- Jose Martinez
2B- Scooter Gennett
2B- Asdrubal Cabrera
3B- Travis Shaw
3B- Eugenio Suarez
SS- Javier Baez
SS- Brandon Crawford
OF- Corey Dickerson
OF- Odubel Herrera
OF- Lorenzo Cain
OF- Starling Marte
Utility- Kris Bryant
Utility- AJ Pollock
P- Stephen Strasburg
P- Aaron Nola
P- Miles Mikolas
P- Jacob deGrom
P- Jake Arrieta
P- Patrick Corbin
P- Wade Davis
P- Josh Hader
P- Jeremy Jeffress
P- Tanner Roark

Ignored the one per team rule above, but here's who I see getting in one way or another from the teams that don't have a clear All Star-

A's- Jed Lowrie or Sean Manaea
Dodgers- Matt Kemp
Jays- Yangervis Solarte
Marlins- JT Realmuto
Padres- Eric Hosmer
Rangers- Nomar Mazara or Bartolo Colon
Rays- Blake Snell
Tigers- Nick Castellanos
Twins- Eddie Rosario or Jose Berrios

Guys that should be in the conversation but I'm guessing won't get in for one reason or another-

AL-

Mitch Haniger
Eddie Rosario
Jed Lowrie
George Springer
Dylan Bundy
Craig Kimbrel

NL-

Justin Bour
Jose Martinez
Tommy Pham
Francisco Cervelli
Corey Dickerson
Tyson Ross
Yasmani Grandal
Kyle Hendricks

[awz50]

Whoever thought Bartolo might be an all star again.

[Zauron]

I'm not sure about Pollock being healthy for a roster spot right now otherwise he would be a lock. His fracture still hasn't healed, so mid to late June is the earliest he'll be back.

[dodgerfanjohn]

Kemp’s been killing it and absolutely deserves a spot. He won’t get voted in by the fans though. Kershaw won’t.

[Bowman1951]

This kind of post takes far too much work so I'm just going with the OP's list which looks really nice.

[prospects]

How is degrom not starting the all star game at this point? give me a break

[Hollywood42]

Max Scherzer

How is degrom not starting the all star game at this point? give me a break

[Hollywood42]

Also just throwing this out there, Stanton by no means deserves to be anywhere near the ASG at this point this year. Yet I'm positive he'll be in it

[pskell02]

Cervelli and Corey Dickerson should be on the roster. Starling Marte has an shot as well. If Meadows keeps doing what he has to start his career, he might be in there as well.

[prospects]

Max Scherzer

you spelled degrom wrong.

and please do not cite wins. degrom should have 8-9.

[marl1220]

Any one who thinks Gleyber isn't going to make the AL squad is kidding themselves.

[Hollywood42]

I'll admit it's closer than I thought, but I'd still go Scherzer

deGrom does take ERA with 1.52 to Max's 2.13, but he does also have about 7 less IP. When talking ERAs that low, 7 innings (1 game) could be all the difference it takes. In fact, take away Max's last outing where he went 6 innings and gave up 4 ER, and his ERA is at 1.77. If we look at FIP instead of ERA, Max actually leads that 2.11 to 2.12

Max has an 18:108 K:BB (leading the league in strikeouts) to deGrom's 19:85

Max takes WHIP 0.907 to 1.010

They're tied with hits at 47 apiece, but again Max has done so in 7 less innings

All in all, it's really close and you probably could go either way. But, I know wins aren't always indicative of how good a pitcher is, but you can't ignore a 8-1 record compared to a 4-0. Add in that Scherzer has a complete game shutout under his belt already, and those factors could easily be a big enough reason to take Max over deGrom

Again, either way, it's close, and probably personal preference at this point. I'm interested to see how both guys continue to pitch

you spelled degrom wrong.

and please do not cite wins. degrom should have 8-9.

[Hollywood42]

I won't say he's not going to make it because the voting system has proven to be... let's just say, easily manipulated by a fan base, and Torres certainly has played great. But he definitely doesn't deserve it over Machado, Simmons, Lindor, Segura, even Didi if you include him in the SS voting, and not over Altuve and maybe Whit if you include him among 2Bs. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ends up in the ASG, but I find it difficult to advocate voting for someone that's played in half the games a typical starter has played in at this point of the year. That's not a knock on Gleyber at all, as again, he's been incredible since hitting the bigs. And if he continues to play at that high of a level as we get closer to the game, I'd certainly advocate for him. But right now it's still too early for me to include him as one of the top candidates at this position

As it currently stands, I could see him being the winner of the fan final vote

Any one who thinks Gleyber isn't going to make the AL squad is kidding themselves.

I really hope both Cervelli and Dickerson make it. They're both super deserving, and I'd love to see them make it over some of the typical stars that are great players but don't deserve it as much. With Stanton in the NL and Yelich and Ozuna not playing as well as they're capable, Marte certainly has a shot too. Meadows I'd currently include in the list of guys that doesn't have enough service time under their belt to be seriously considered, at least at this point

Cervelli and Corey Dickerson should be on the roster. Starling Marte has an shot as well. If Meadows keeps doing what he has to start his career, he might be in there as well.

[marl1220]

I won't say he's not going to make it because the voting system has proven to be... let's just say, easily manipulated by a fan base, and Torres certainly has played great. But he definitely doesn't deserve it over Machado, Simmons, Lindor, Segura, even Didi if you include him in the SS voting, and not over Altuve and maybe Whit if you include him among 2Bs. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he ends up in the ASG, but I find it difficult to advocate voting for someone that's played in half the games a typical starter has played in at this point of the year. That's not a knock on Gleyber at all, as again, he's been incredible since hitting the bigs. And if he continues to play at that high of a level as we get closer to the game, I'd certainly advocate for him. But right now it's still too early for me to include him as one of the top candidates at this position

As it currently stands, I could see him being the winner of the fan final vote



I really hope both Cervelli and Dickerson make it. They're both super deserving, and I'd love to see them make it over some of the typical stars that are great players but don't deserve it as much. With Stanton in the NL and Yelich and Ozuna not playing as well as they're capable, Marte certainly has a shot too. Meadows I'd currently include in the list of guys that doesn't have enough service time under their belt to be seriously considered, at least at this point

Believe me, I understand the reasons why he shouldn't make it. But he will (imo).

[Hollywood42]

That's fair. As I mentioned earlier, same situation with Stanton (albeit different reasons why he shouldn't make it)

Believe me, I understand the reasons why he shouldn't make it. But he will (imo).

[prospects]

I'll admit it's closer than I thought, but I'd still go Scherzer

deGrom does take ERA with 1.52 to Max's 2.13, but he does also have about 7 less IP. When talking ERAs that low, 7 innings (1 game) could be all the difference it takes. In fact, take away Max's last outing where he went 6 innings and gave up 4 ER, and his ERA is at 1.77. If we look at FIP instead of ERA, Max actually leads that 2.11 to 2.12

Max has an 18:108 K:BB (leading the league in strikeouts) to deGrom's 19:85

Max takes WHIP 0.907 to 1.010

They're tied with hits at 47 apiece, but again Max has done so in 7 less innings

All in all, it's really close and you probably could go either way. But, I know wins aren't always indicative of how good a pitcher is, but you can't ignore a 8-1 record compared to a 4-0. Add in that Scherzer has a complete game shutout under his belt already, and those factors could easily be a big enough reason to take Max over deGrom

Again, either way, it's close, and probably personal preference at this point. I'm interested to see how both guys continue to pitch

yes we can. mets have blown last 2 starts for degrom alone where he left with the lead late.

And you did not mention how degrom has given up 3 homeruns to max's 6.

[Hollywood42]

Like it or not, wins and losses do matter. From public voting to Cy voting to HOF voting, they matter whether they should or shouldn't. No, it certainly shouldn't be the biggest factor or one of the first things you look at, but you can't pretend like they don't mean anything to voters

Didn't even see the HR totals. Not a big deal for me. It's not a huge difference and can (and probably will) change in their next few starts

yes we can. mets have blown last 2 starts for degrom alone where he left with the lead late.

And you did not mention how degrom has given up 3 homeruns to max's 6.

[prospects]

Like it or not, wins and losses do matter. From public voting to Cy voting to HOF voting, they matter whether they should or shouldn't. No, it certainly shouldn't be the biggest factor or one of the first things you look at, but you can't pretend like they don't mean anything to voters

Didn't even see the HR totals. Not a big deal for me. It's not a huge difference and can (and probably will) change in their next few starts

but the manager chooses who starts the all star game, so record should not matter.

[Hollywood42]

Again, record does matter. It's proven to be a factor in all sorts of different settings

I'm by no means saying it's easy for me to pick Max over deGrom at this point. Again, it's super close. Thankfully, all of us as well as the manager are going to see several more starts from both guys before a decision has to be made. It's probably going to be more clear after a few more weeks

but the manager chooses who starts the all star game, so record should not matter.

[Brewers3]

It’s a joke if Yelich doesn’t get in.

[ucLAkers]

Take off Kershaw & add Buehler

[Jmort23]

Scherzer tonight:
8IP 2hits 1BB and 12ks
ERA now 1.92
Trying to solidify the ASG start

[mcgahee21nfl]

Brandon Crawford seems to be a near lock now at SS for the NL

[rman112]

No Gio Gonzalez? Even a Roark mention?

#cmonnow

[Big35Hurt]

yes we can. mets have blown last 2 starts for degrom alone where he left with the lead late.

And you did not mention how degrom has given up 3 homeruns to max's 6.

Holy crap man....I'm not sure which you pimp more: DeGrom or Bowman products. :D

[Hollywood42]

My official ballot at this point in the year. Likely will change slightly as we get closer to the voting deadline as performances change. 2nd choice at each position is in parentheses for fun

AL
C- Wilson Ramos (Gary Sanchez)
1B- Mitch Moreland (Jose Abreu)
2B- Jose Altuve (Brian Dozier)
3B- Jose Ramirez (Mike Moustakas)
SS- Manny Machado (Francisco Lindor)
OF- Mookie Betts (Aaron Judge)
OF- Mike Trout (Michael Brantley)
OF- Eddie Rosario (Mitch Haniger)
DH- JD Martinez (Edwin Encarnacion)

NL
C- Francisco Cervelli (Buster Posey)
1B- Freddie Freeman (Brandon Belt)
2B- Scooter Gennett (Ozzie Albies)
3B- Nolan Arenado (Kris Bryant)
SS- Brandon Crawford (Trea Turner)
OF- Bryce Harper (Charlie Blackmon)
OF- Matt Kemp (AJ Pollock)
OF- Corey Dickerson (Christian Yelich)

[clocsta2323]

So much talent in the MLB...AL is insane

[jstasyk1121]

but the manager chooses who starts the all star game, so record should not matter.

ok lets say they keep going at the pace they are now...with max getting wins and degrom getting a lot of no decisions...

at the break one is 13-2 and the other is like 6-1

sorry but by then the INN gap would be maybe 10-12...almost one inn per start and people would then say "well yea degrom doesnt go deep enough to get his own wins...letting his bpen blow games, while max is a work horse and goest that extra inning here and there and doesnt let the bpen in until the 8th or 9th instead of 7th"...

like the other post stated...

currently both have made 12 starts(max goes again today so regardless of outcome if i post this 12 hrs later his inn/ks will be a much bigger gap then they already are until degrom goes again...all about timing on this)

Max has:
7 more innings
less hits
less walks
20+ more k's...which is huge cuz by end of season would be like 50-60 more
lower WHIP
and yea he does have a sparkling 9-1 record...optics! that looks way better than a guy who has had 8 no decisions out of 12 starts like degrom

Degrom has:
lower ERA
higher WAR

you can say all you want "dont cite wins"...ok even though it absolutely is something that people look at and care about...we still have all that i stated above saying Max has been better/more dominant/more durable

sorry that you dont like that if someone went 22-4 and another guy went 14-3 that the 22win guy wouldnt get more attention...just the way it is...

[prospects]

ok lets say they keep going at the pace they are now...with max getting wins and degrom getting a lot of no decisions...

at the break one is 13-2 and the other is like 6-1

sorry but by then the INN gap would be maybe 10-12...almost one inn per start and people would then say "well yea degrom doesnt go deep enough to get his own wins...letting his bpen blow games, while max is a work horse and goest that extra inning here and there and doesnt let the bpen in until the 8th or 9th instead of 7th"...

like the other post stated...

currently both have made 12 starts(max goes again today so regardless of outcome if i post this 12 hrs later his inn/ks will be a much bigger gap then they already are until degrom goes again...all about timing on this)

Max has:
7 more innings
less hits
less walks
20+ more k's...which is huge cuz by end of season would be like 50-60 more
lower WHIP
and yea he does have a sparkling 9-1 record...optics! that looks way better than a guy who has had 8 no decisions out of 12 starts like degrom

Degrom has:
lower ERA
higher WAR

you can say all you want "dont cite wins"...ok even though it absolutely is something that people look at and care about...we still have all that i stated above saying Max has been better/more dominant/more durable

sorry that you dont like that if someone went 22-4 and another guy went 14-3 that the 22win guy wouldnt get more attention...just the way it is...

nope, WRONG.

Managers are not dumb. They should know better than to pick a guy with more wins.

Degrom missed a start so will always be behind in that. Less homers for degrom as well. Less losses.

Who is better and who has been better on the biggest stage of their career? DEGROM, who was more dominant in his 2015 postseason than max ever has been.

[seabass97166]

Man, Catchers must be at a premium. Sanchez stinks defensively and hits around .200, yet he is a starter?

[Hollywood42]

So now we're looking at who had the best stretch of baseball 3 years ago to pick the ASG starter? Man, you're really stretching

For the record, deGrom wasn't even dominant in the 2015 postseason. He had 4 starts-

7 IP, 5 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 13 K. Yes that one was pretty darn good
6 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 7 K. Still good, but certainly not dominant
7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 7 K. Again good, not dominant
5 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 2 K. Pretty clearly not good. And came on the biggest stage- The World Series

Pretty incredible you're trying to use that as a reason deGrom should start over Max. Even more incredible you're suggesting that was a more dominant stretch than when Scherzer pitched TWO no hitters in that same 2015 season. Or when he won the past 2 Cy Young awards. Or when he won 3 of the past 5 Cy Young awards. Etc etc. You're not doing well with this debate

nope, WRONG.

Managers are not dumb. They should know better than to pick a guy with more wins.

Degrom missed a start so will always be behind in that. Less homers for degrom as well. Less losses.

Who is better and who has been better on the biggest stage of their career? DEGROM, who was more dominant in his 2015 postseason than max ever has been.

[Hollywood42]

He's not my current starter, but there really aren't too many other options in the AL right now. The only guys that really deserve to be in the conversation are Sanchez, Ramos, Perez, and mayyyybe Gattis, and none of them are running away with it-

Sanchez- .201 AVG, 12 HR, 35 RBI, 31 R
Ramos- .301 AVG, 7 HR, 29 RBI, 18 R
Perez- .245 AVG, 10 HR, 31 RBI, 21 R
Gattis- .224 AVG, 8 HR, 26 RBI, 20 R

Sanchez has the most power and probably has the best bat of any catcher, but that .201 average is pretty gross. Ramos sacrifices some power, but in a year where there's no other qualifying catcher in the AL hitting anywhere close to his average, he's most deserving at this point IMO. Perez is kind of a middle ground between Sanchez and Ramos, as most all of his numbers fall somewhere in between the two. Gattis really is just in there because nobody else is locking it up

All in all, there's really not a whole lot of good options for the ASG at AL Cs this year

Man, Catchers must be at a premium. Sanchez stinks defensively and hits around .200, yet he is a starter?

[BH34]

My official ballot at this point in the year. Likely will change slightly as we get closer to the voting deadline as performances change. 2nd choice at each position is in parentheses for fun

AL

...
DH- JD Martinez (Edwin Encarnacion)
...



JD deserves it, but not sure he gets voted in.
Ohtani is listed as DH on the ballot.

Even JD is worried he won't be voted in. Already sounds a little salty, and voting just began.

"It’s more of a popularity contest than it is about performance.
The only year I only made it was when I was voted in by the players, which is who I think should vote,” Martinez added. “One hundred percent. Because that’s how you know who your All-Stars really are. The fans don’t know. The fans like to think they know. But they only know what MLB puts out there and who they post on their Instagram, who they post on their Twitter and who they talk about, stuff like that. “They push certain people and it sucks for other guys who have great years and get overlooked. That’s why I always say the players should (pick)."

LINK (https://nesn.com/2018/06/j-d-martinez-has-legitimate-bone-to-pick-with-mlb-all-star-voting-process/)

[Hollywood42]

He's not completely wrong about the MLB pushing who they want to. But it's not really that exciting for them to talk about what a good season Francisco Cervelli is having, for example. That's another conversation though. Hopefully it won't matter, as he's having an incredible year and should run away with the DH vote. Hitting .315 while leading the league in HR and RBI, not to mention top 3 in the league in SLG and top 5 in OPS

JD deserves it, but not sure he gets voted in.
Ohtani is listed as DH on the ballot.

Even JD is worried he won't be voted in. Already sounds a little salty, and voting just began.

"It’s more of a popularity contest than it is about performance.
The only year I only made it was when I was voted in by the players, which is who I think should vote,” Martinez added. “One hundred percent. Because that’s how you know who your All-Stars really are. The fans don’t know. The fans like to think they know. But they only know what MLB puts out there and who they post on their Instagram, who they post on their Twitter and who they talk about, stuff like that. “They push certain people and it sucks for other guys who have great years and get overlooked. That’s why I always say the players should (pick)."

LINK (https://nesn.com/2018/06/j-d-martinez-has-legitimate-bone-to-pick-with-mlb-all-star-voting-process/)

[Orange October]

I think if Machado gets traded before the all star break, maybe Jones makes it as a reserve. Not sure who else on the Orioles could even remotely be argued for.

Man, Catchers must be at a premium. Sanchez stinks defensively and hits around .200, yet he is a starter?

Ramos deserves it by the numbers, but you have to remember that fans vote for the starters. As long as fans have 100% of the input for the starting line ups, the best player at that position won't always be the one who starts.



I think they need to keep the fan vote, but they shouldn't have it be the only factor for determining starters. Maybe poll fans, players/coaches, and media members (or whoever) and weigh the fan vote 50%, players/coaches 25%, and media 25%. Or get rid of media and make players and coaches separate, but you get the idea.

[hxcmilkshake]

JD needs to relax and understand that he was on a team on the west coast , smaller market , so yeah those guys tend to fly under the radar when it comes to All-Star consideration by the fans. No need to trash them about it. Now that he's in Boston he's a shoo-in. Or is it shoe-in.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

[prospects]

So now we're looking at who had the best stretch of baseball 3 years ago to pick the ASG starter? Man, you're really stretching

For the record, deGrom wasn't even dominant in the 2015 postseason. He had 4 starts-

7 IP, 5 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 13 K. Yes that one was pretty darn good
6 IP, 6 H, 2 ER, 3 BB, 7 K. Still good, but certainly not dominant
7 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, 1 BB, 7 K. Again good, not dominant
5 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 3 BB, 2 K. Pretty clearly not good. And came on the biggest stage- The World Series

Pretty incredible you're trying to use that as a reason deGrom should start over Max. Even more incredible you're suggesting that was a more dominant stretch than when Scherzer pitched TWO no hitters in that same 2015 season. Or when he won the past 2 Cy Young awards. Or when he won 3 of the past 5 Cy Young awards. Etc etc. You're not doing well with this debate

and here is the problem once again, people who do not watch degrom, making opinions on degrom.

You proved it by saying his second post season start was only "good."

In that start, degrom was on the ropes in the first inning. He gave up two runs, and was close to being pulled. He pulled it together and shut the dodgers out the rest of the game.

He was clearly exhausted. He was throwing 99 mph in his first playoff start, and by the time his next start came, he was clearly off. It was his first full season, he was not used to this workload. He was great again in third start, and by the time the world series came, he had nothing left. (But still could have been worse.)

This is what degrom is. When he has his A+ stuff, he is a top 3 pitcher in the league. When he has his C+ stuff, he is a top 10 pitcher. He battles out of almost every single jam thrown his way.

On top of his amazing starts this year, I am going to take it a bit further and say he has been UNLUCKY. So many blooper hits, poor defense, and his era being so low just shows you how much he battles. Kid has so much guts.

So yes, I 100% guarantee you that if I need a big win, in the playoffs, I am taking degrom over scherzer, kershaw, serverino, etc. And it is not close.

You are not going to change my mind and I will not change yours, but the moral of the story is, most people do not watch Jacob degrom pitch. It is a thing of beauty.

His only downside, injuries. I would not say prone but he needs to stay a little more healthier.

[Hollywood42]

I've been well aware of that for a longgggg time in this thread :rolleyes: The mere fact that you're using starts from the 2015 playoffs to try to justify picking deGrom over Scherzer for this year's ASG starter is incredible

and here is the problem once again, people who do not watch degrom, making opinions on degrom.

You proved it by saying his second post season start was only "good."

In that start, degrom was on the ropes in the first inning. He gave up two runs, and was close to being pulled. He pulled it together and shut the dodgers out the rest of the game.

He was clearly exhausted. He was throwing 99 mph in his first playoff start, and by the time his next start came, he was clearly off. It was his first full season, he was not used to this workload. He was great again in third start, and by the time the world series came, he had nothing left. (But still could have been worse.)

This is what degrom is. When he has his A+ stuff, he is a top 3 pitcher in the league. When he has his C+ stuff, he is a top 10 pitcher. He battles out of almost every single jam thrown his way.

On top of his amazing starts this year, I am going to take it a bit further and say he has been UNLUCKY. So many blooper hits, poor defense, and his era being so low just shows you how much he battles. Kid has so much guts.

So yes, I 100% guarantee you that if I need a big win, in the playoffs, I am taking degrom over scherzer, kershaw, serverino, etc. And it is not close.

You are not going to change my mind and you will not change mine, but the moral of the story is, most people do not watch Jacob degrom pitch. It is a thing of beauty.

His only downside, injuries. I would not say prone but he needs to stay a little more healthier.

[prospects]

I've been well aware of that for a longgggg time in this thread :rolleyes: The mere fact that you're using starts from the 2015 playoffs to try to justify picking deGrom over Scherzer for this year's ASG starter is incredible

No, for that debate, I am using the fact that if degrom did not play for the worst team in America, he would be 10-0 with an era of 1.49

Not bad :)

[jstasyk1121]

nope, WRONG.

Managers are not dumb. They should know better than to pick a guy with more wins.

Degrom missed a start so will always be behind in that. Less homers for degrom as well. Less losses.

Who is better and who has been better on the biggest stage of their career? DEGROM, who was more dominant in his 2015 postseason than max ever has been.

yea what? you are arguing that degrom should start the 2018 ASG based on his 2015 playoff performance?? thats a new one...

lets not look at wins...but lets look at 33 months ago for a 2wk span??

and the manager would not be picking the guy with "more wins"...he would be picking the guy with(again):

more innings
less hits
less walks
many more ks
lower WHIP
and also a sparkling sub-2.00 era himself...its not like he is way high...he is 2nd in ERA
just for fun some more stats:
more QS
more CG and SO
lower BAA
better k/bb
better k/9
better bb/9

but hey...degrom has ERA, WAR and less homers allowed


and you are gonna sit there and say "less losses" as a degrom stat but getting all upset about using max's 9-1 record as a plus for him?? hmmmm...just a tiny bit hypocritical there...

they are both having great seasons....but outside of ERA/WAR Max has him beat in all of the other important stats...is less hittable...issues less walks...strikes out more...goes deeper into games...is more durable/trusted to go deep into games....

the 9-1 and 4-0 thing would be more of a thing just taking a possibly close decision and swaying it to max clearly...you can take out the win/loss completely and its still Max having the better season...period

he has been more dominant and harder to hit...the fact that he is 9-1 is just a cherry on top of a great 1st half he is having....degrom having 8 no.dec is tough luck...but still...he only has 4 wins...unfair or not as any type of "tie breaker" that would be used...he loses

currently leading the league

Max:
Innings-after tonight he will be(degrom 9th)
H/9(degrom 8th)
K/9(degrom 2nd)
WHIP(degrom 5th)
Strikeouts(degrom t-2nd...show how far ahead max is)
Wins(degrom not close obviously with 4)
CG/SO-no one has 2 of either(degrom 0)

So Max is leading those among others while DeGrom is outside of the top 5 in many....

DeGrom:
ERA(Max 2nd)
WAR(Max 3rd) and if go to fWAR Max is leading that one
FIP(Max 2nd by 0.01)
ERA+(Max 2nd)

So when DeGrom is leading Max is basically 2nd in everything...meaning Max is 1st or 2nd in most stats so far...while leading in many outright

Like its close...but its not really close at the same time...and after tonight he will have a 12-15 inning cushion...and that many innings at elite production in the first half of a season is huge...15 extra innings of Max to this point is super valuable

[prospects]

yea what? you are arguing that degrom should start the 2018 ASG based on his 2015 playoff performance?? thats a new one...

lets not look at wins...but lets look at 33 months ago for a 2wk span??

and the manager would not be picking the guy with "more wins"...he would be picking the guy with(again):

more innings
less hits
less walks
many more ks
lower WHIP
and also a sparkling sub-2.00 era himself...its not like he is way high...he is 2nd in ERA
just for fun some more stats:
more QS
more CG and SO
lower BAA
better k/bb
better k/9
better bb/9

but hey...degrom has ERA, WAR and less homers allowed


and you are gonna sit there and say "less losses" as a degrom stat but getting all upset about using max's 9-1 record as a plus for him?? hmmmm...just a tiny bit hypocritical there...

they are both having great seasons....but outside of ERA/WAR Max has him beat in all of the other important stats...is less hittable...issues less walks...strikes out more...goes deeper into games...is more durable/trusted to go deep into games....

the 9-1 and 4-0 thing would be more of a thing just taking a possibly close decision and swaying it to max clearly...you can take out the win/loss completely and its still Max having the better season...period

he has been more dominant and harder to hit...the fact that he is 9-1 is just a cherry on top of a great 1st half he is having....degrom having 8 no.dec is tough luck...but still...he only has 4 wins...unfair or not as any type of "tie breaker" that would be used...he loses

currently leading the league

Max:
Innings-after tonight he will be(degrom 9th)
H/9(degrom 8th)
K/9(degrom 2nd)
WHIP(degrom 5th)
Strikeouts(degrom t-2nd...show how far ahead max is)
Wins(degrom not close obviously with 4)
CG/SO-no one has 2 of either(degrom 0)

So Max is leading those among others while DeGrom is outside of the top 5 in many....

DeGrom:
ERA(Max 2nd)
WAR(Max 3rd) and if go to fWAR Max is leading that one
FIP(Max 2nd by 0.01)
ERA+(Max 2nd)

So when DeGrom is leading Max is basically 2nd in everything...meaning Max is 1st or 2nd in most stats so far...while leading in many outright

Like its close...but its not really close at the same time...and after tonight he will have a 12-15 inning cushion...and that many innings at elite production in the first half of a season is huge...15 extra innings of Max to this point is super valuable

I did not even bother reading this drivel, too much nonsense

[KC35]

Man, Catchers must be at a premium. Sanchez stinks defensively and hits around .200, yet he is a starter?

#VoteSalvy

[jstasyk1121]

I did not even bother reading this drivel, too much nonsense

oh such an easy reply when you dont want to face all that nonsense(also knows as facts, but hey...no biggie)

[Hollywood42]

lolololol

I did not even bother reading this drivel, too much nonsense

[prospects]

oh such an easy reply when you dont want to face all that nonsense(also knows as facts, but hey...no biggie)

lolololol

If degrom dominates yankees this week, you have seen nothing yet from me:)

[BH34]

He's not completely wrong about the MLB pushing who they want to. But it's not really that exciting for them to talk about what a good season Francisco Cervelli is having, for example. That's another conversation though. Hopefully it won't matter, as he's having an incredible year and should run away with the DH vote. Hitting .315 while leading the league in HR and RBI, not to mention top 3 in the league in SLG and top 5 in OPS

JD absolutely deserves to win the vote, and to be the starting DH in the ASG.

However, I'd venture to guess that Ohtani winds up being the leading vote getter, not just for AL-DH, but for all of MLB.

[clocsta2323]

Max Scherzer is going to win his 4th Cy. Holla at me when DeGrom wins his first one :) I have DeGrom on my fantasy team and he is doing real well. I picked him to lead my pitching staff, but the only reason he is on my squad is because Max Scherzer was already taken.

[prospects]

Max Scherzer is going to win his 4th Cy. Holla at me when DeGrom wins his first one :) I have DeGrom on my fantasy team and he is doing real well. I picked him to lead my pitching staff, but the only reason he is on my squad is because Max Scherzer was already taken.

The only reason that degrom is not winning the cy young is because he is cursed by the mets.

[clocsta2323]

The only reason that degrom is not winning the cy young is because he is cursed by the mets.

Admitting he wont win over Max is a good first step. I definitely get frustrated that DeGrom annihilates opposing hitters and doesn't seem to be getting the Ws but Scherzers numbers (outside of Wins) look better to me than DeGroms.. am I wrong?

[no10pin]

The only reason that degrom is not winning the cy young is because he is cursed by the mets.

Which year is it that he should have won? The only year where he even remotely would have had a chance was the Arrieta/Grienke battle year, and he finished 7th that year.

[prospects]

Which year is it that he should have won? The only year where he even remotely would have had a chance was the Arrieta/Grienke battle year, and he finished 7th that year.

this year if he keeps it up

[prospects]

Admitting he wont win over Max is a good first step. I definitely get frustrated that DeGrom annihilates opposing hitters and doesn't seem to be getting the Ws but Scherzers numbers (outside of Wins) look better to me than DeGroms.. am I wrong?

Yes you are. Degrom has been better, not sure what is so hard about that. He plays for a team that cannot hit, hold a lead, or play any lick of defense.

At the end of the day, degrom has given up less runs per 9 innings and less homeruns.

[prospects]

The mets have blown 3 DEFINITE leads after degrom left the game. All 3 games he actually deserved the win. You. Cannot. Count. Wins. And if you are not counting wins, there is no argument.

[prospects]

However, i am sure in the next few weeks degrom will either get injured or fall apart, because, METS.

[clocsta2323]

0.4 HRA to 0.7 HRA ... really man? I think the difference in K/9 and WHIP Scherzer boasts is more significant than the two stats you bring up. Because he allows less hits and walks and strikes more people out.. that is essentially what makes certain pitchers better than others

[Hollywood42]

No point in talking about this with this dude anymore. Dude stuffs his hands in his ears and refuses to listen to the many reasons Max deserves it over deGrom. Literally no point in responding anymore

[seabass97166]

The mets have blown 3 DEFINITE leads after degrom left the game. All 3 games he actually deserved the win. You. Cannot. Count. Wins. And if you are not counting wins, there is no argument.

It really is ridiculous, Mets have lost 7 of his last 9 starts and the guy has given up 1 run or less in 8 of them. That being said, Max has him in SO, WHIP, BAA, innings,
but deGrom does have him in ERA by almost 1/2 run.
It’s a toss up

[prospects]

It really is ridiculous, Mets have lost 7 of his last 9 starts and the guy has given up 1 run or less in 8 of them. That being said, Max has him in SO, WHIP, BAA, innings,
but deGrom does have him in ERA by almost 1/2 run.
It’s a toss up

Thank you for being realistic.

I’m being called a fool because I’m saying Degrom has been better. Really? Fine, toss up. But i have not said anything crazy.

[prospects]

0.4 HRA to 0.7 HRA ... really man? I think the difference in K/9 and WHIP Scherzer boasts is more significant than the two stats you bring up. Because he allows less hits and walks and strikes more people out.. that is essentially what makes certain pitchers better than others

Guess you ignored the defense part or the fact that some pitchers are at their best with runners on base.

Who cares if there are 50 runners on base.

He don’t let them score!

Name of the game is runs, not runners!!

[seabass97166]

Thank you for being realistic.

I’m being called a fool because I’m saying Degrom has been better. Really? Fine, toss up. But i have not said anything crazy.

deGrom has been unbelievable with RISP, in fact I read that with the bases loaded - batters are 0-12 with 9 Ks. There is literally nothing else this guy can do, the Mets are just a complete joke right now. I would even argue it’s harder to put up those kind of numbers knowing you have to be perfect - any little hiccup and you’re done. Not taking anything away from Max (who also had a pinch hit in extra innings Saturday in a tie game and scored from first on a triple) he is a gamer. Nobody wants it more than him. But deGrom and him are certainly neck and neck, slight edge to Max but it’s early.

[jstasyk1121]

The mets have blown 3 DEFINITE leads after degrom left the game. All 3 games he actually deserved the win. You. Cannot. Count. Wins. And if you are not counting wins, there is no argument.

i would absolutely classify this as "crazy"....you are saying that its not even close based on ERA and of all things-home runs allowed....

what about stolen bases allowed?? max has allowed 3 while DeGrom has allowed 4!!!!

what a bum!!

you dont need to count wins and losses at all to easily argue Max>Degrom

more Inn
less hits
less walks
more ks-by a lot
much lower WHIP


you are arguing all this tough luck that degrom has had...which i agree...him being 4-0 is crazy...but what if it was the other way around?? what is DeGrom was 9-1 and Max was only 4-0....

i GUARANTEE your posts would be including the sparkling 9-1 record and how he leads the league in Wins as well...100% lock of the year that you would be saying that....its ok...you can deny it...that is expected...

i dont need the 9-1 record to easily make my case for Max having a better year...the fact that you keep harping on Homers allowed as your 2nd talking point is all i need to know...cuz that is one of the few things he is actually leading in!!!

ill take the guy who is leading in innings, whip, k's, h/9

you can have the guy who gave up 3 less home runs

[prospects]

deGrom has been unbelievable with RISP, in fact I read that with the bases loaded - batters are 0-12 with 9 Ks. There is literally nothing else this guy can do, the Mets are just a complete joke right now. I would even argue it’s harder to put up those kind of numbers knowing you have to be perfect - any little hiccup and you’re done. Not taking anything away from Max (who also had a pinch hit in extra innings Saturday in a tie game and scored from first on a triple) he is a gamer. Nobody wants it more than him. But deGrom and him are certainly neck and neck, slight edge to Max but it’s early.

Basically the guys arguing for Max are saying he should win because the mets cannot score more than one run when degrom pitches or hold the one run lead they do have after he leaves.

The most runs the mets have scored total in a game since May 7 for degrom, are THREE RUNS

In degrom's last 6 starts, the mets have scored a total of 10 runs COMBINED. TEN.

[prospects]

i would absolutely classify this as "crazy"....you are saying that its not even close based on ERA and of all things-home runs allowed....

what about stolen bases allowed?? max has allowed 3 while DeGrom has allowed 4!!!!

what a bum!!

you dont need to count wins and losses at all to easily argue Max>Degrom

more Inn
less hits
less walks
more ks-by a lot
much lower WHIP


you are arguing all this tough luck that degrom has had...which i agree...him being 4-0 is crazy...but what if it was the other way around?? what is DeGrom was 9-1 and Max was only 4-0....

i GUARANTEE your posts would be including the sparkling 9-1 record and how he leads the league in Wins as well...100% lock of the year that you would be saying that....its ok...you can deny it...that is expected...

i dont need the 9-1 record to easily make my case for Max having a better year...the fact that you keep harping on Homers allowed as your 2nd talking point is all i need to know...cuz that is one of the few things he is actually leading in!!!

ill take the guy who is leading in innings, whip, k's, h/9

you can have the guy who gave up 3 less home runs

that is great, that means I have the better pitcher, you know, the one who has given up less runs this year. The only stat that matters in baseball when you want to actually win games.

[Hollywood42]

That's just blatantly false. It's incredible how you keep outdoing yourself

Basically the guys arguing for Max are saying he should win because the mets cannot score more than one run when degrom pitches or hold the one run lead they do have after he leaves.

[prospects]

oh, max gives up less hits! But he gives up more runs! But since he gives up less hits, I still say he is the best!

[prospects]

That's just blatantly false. It's incredible how you keep outdoing yourself

Ok, then throwing wins out the window degrom's record at worst is 8-0. But you are still sitting here telling me that max will win.


bs.

[prospects]

Lets just let the next few starts play out. We will have our answer by then.

[jstasyk1121]

that is great, that means I have the better pitcher, you know, the one who has given up less runs this year. The only stat that matters in baseball when you want to actually win games.

well apparently not since max is 9-1...have i mentioned he is 9-1 this year??

and there are many more stats to show value/dominance/ability than ERA...but thats ok...you sticking onto ERA as your "only stat that matters" is just as ridiculous as people using wins as the only metric to gauge a pitchers value...

oh and repeatedly the guys backing max-myself included have stated we can throw the win/loss right out the window and still think he is having the better year...you just ignore that part everytime and say Degrom is better and its clear...without actually backing this up outside of "ERA is all that matters...and he has given up less home runs"...yea...great argument

[prospects]

deGrom has been unbelievable with RISP, in fact I read that with the bases loaded - batters are 0-12 with 9 Ks. There is literally nothing else this guy can do, the Mets are just a complete joke right now. I would even argue it’s harder to put up those kind of numbers knowing you have to be perfect - any little hiccup and you’re done. Not taking anything away from Max (who also had a pinch hit in extra innings Saturday in a tie game and scored from first on a triple) he is a gamer. Nobody wants it more than him. But deGrom and him are certainly neck and neck, slight edge to Max but it’s early.

fantastic point. But nope, everyone else will ignore this even though its true no doubt.

[prospects]

well apparently not since max is 9-1...have i mentioned he is 9-1 this year??

and there are many more stats to show value/dominance/ability than ERA...but thats ok...you sticking onto ERA as your "only stat that matters" is just as ridiculous as people using wins as the only metric to gauge a pitchers value...

oh and repeatedly the guys backing max-myself included have stated we can throw the win/loss right out the window and still think he is having the better year...you just ignore that part everytime and say Degrom is better and its clear...without actually backing this up outside of "ERA is all that matters...and he has given up less home runs"...yea...great argument

How does that matter?

AGAIN, has max's team score 1 or 2 runs at most for him and then given up the lead when they have it every 5 starts? NOPE.

Why is degrom being penalized because the mets are worse than putrid?

Oh I know, because nobody in here except me actually watches degrom/mets games.

Got it.

[seabass97166]

fantastic point. But nope, everyone else will ignore this even though its true no doubt.

The arguments made for Max are legit. Throw out the record and he is still better in most stats. No argument and he would get my vote today.

But there is no doubt pitching with a lead is much more ideal. You can attack hitters without worrying any little mistake could cost you the game. You can constantly be in attack mode no matter the situation. But Scherzer puts up numbers like this every year, he is a absolutely ridiculous and probably taken for granted. But put him in 0-0 game in the 6th where there is no room for error and it’s a much different vibe for any pitcher.

[prospects]

The arguments made for Max are legit. Throw out the record and he is still better in most stats. No argument and he would get my vote today.

But there is no doubt pitching with a lead is much more ideal. You can attack hitters without worrying any little mistake could cost you the game. You can be constantly be in attack mode no matter the situation. It Scherzer puts up numbers like this every year he is a absolutely ridiculous. But put him in 0-0 game in the 6th where there is no room for error and it’s a much different vibe for any pitcher.

I can respect your point, but I still say Degrom. At least you and I can have a pleasant conversation about it.

By the way, nice trout!

[jstasyk1121]

so based on this then im assuming you have disagreed with quite a bit of the recent CYA winners over the last handful of years then correct?? just wanna make sure we are on same page...

you disagreed with the following correct:

2017 NL Scherzer
2016 AL Porcello
2016 NL Scherzer
2015 AL Keuchel
2015 NL Arrieta
2014 AL Kluber
2013 AL Scherzer
2012 NL Dickey
2010 NL Halladay

that is just from 2010-17...man you must really hate that award since it hardly ever goes to the guy with the lowest ERA....maybe...just maybe its because there is more to voting/valuing/ranking a SP than just ERA..

but hey..just more nonsense right??

[jstasyk1121]

How does that matter?

AGAIN, has max's team score 1 or 2 runs at most for him and then given up the lead when they have it every 5 starts? NOPE.

Why is degrom being penalized because the mets are worse than putrid?

Oh I know, because nobody in here except me actually watches degrom/mets games.

Got it.

you do realize you are like THE ONLY ONE actually arguing wins and losses...you went off about how anyone who talks about wins is wrong...and you are the guy that keeps talking about it!!! the mets suck...ok great...he has a wonderful ERA...yep..i agree...but guess what...So does Max...and then Max has more innings, less bb, more k's, much lower WHIP...did i mention wins at all?? nope...and i still think its Max and if they voted on ASG or CYA right now...Max wins in a landslide!!!!

[seabass97166]

One thing we can all agree on, the Mets are a dumpster fire.

Whenever the Mets lose (especially when they blow a lead), here is what I suggest:

After the game, go on the Mets Twitter account and find the Tweet that shows the final score.
Then read all the comments...that is a quality 10 minutes of entertainment

[prospects]

One thing we can all agree on, the Mets are a dumpster fire.

Whenever the Mets lose (especially when they blow a lead), here is what I suggest:

After the game, go on the Mets Twitter account and find the Tweet that shows the final score.
Then read all the comments...that is a quality 10 minutes of entertainment

lmao, you are correct sir, it is almost fun, almost.

[prospects]

max dominating, and his team scoring for him. take notes mets.

Oh yea and the innings excuse, degrom left one start after 4 because of an injury and then after a layoff left next start after 1 because of long first inning.

[clocsta2323]

Im feeling a CG shutout for Max tonight

[prospects]

Im feeling a CG shutout for Max tonight

me too, those rays man

[clocsta2323]

me too, those rays man

Legendary pitchers make bad teams look like little leaguers.. Max is doing what he is supposed to do.

[prospects]

Legendary pitchers make bad teams look like little leaguers.. Max is doing what he is supposed to do.

eh gave up 2 run double. once again tho degrom could have done what max did tonight only difference is no way he would get 4 runs of support.

That is why this whole argument is ridiculous.

[jstasyk1121]

eh gave up 2 run double. once again tho degrom could have done what max did tonight only difference is no way he would get 4 runs of support.

That is why this whole argument is ridiculous.

U are being ridiculous...u seriously sound like Max has like a 3.50era and everyone is talking about him ONLY for his 10-1 record...

Spoiler alert...he is killing it as well at 1.95era and his whip went down even more...8 more inn...13 more ks...now 35 up on everyone in NL...

But yea ur right...he is clearly just lucky to be 10-1 and is mediocre...

[prospects]

U are being ridiculous...u seriously sound like Max has like a 3.50era and everyone is talking about him ONLY for his 10-1 record...

Spoiler alert...he is killing it as well at 1.95era and his whip went down even more...8 more inn...13 more ks...now 35 up on everyone in NL...

But yea ur right...he is clearly just lucky to be 10-1 and is mediocre...

65 runs when scherzer starts this year

32 runs when degrom starts this year

good night

[jstasyk1121]

65 runs when scherzer starts this year

22 runs when degrom starts this year

good night

Degrom has had horrible luck...ive already agreed to that!!! U are not bringing up any new info here...or proving anything!!

Degrom has been awesome
Scherzer has been awesome

I think due to the multiple stats and number I have shown to back this up is having a better season...to me innings...whip...ks...h/9....that all trumps ERA...

You continue to just sound bitter/upset that degrom gets garbage run support...

Win loss means nothing to me for this comparison...im still taking max...and ur only rebuttal has been "era is all that matters"...

Scherzer is on pace to lead the league in inn...h/9...k/9..strikeouts..whip...and u think it's just run support that makes his season better to me? No...the 10-1 is an afterthought at this point...i don't need to even use it to debate this...

[no10pin]

65 runs when scherzer starts this year

32 runs when degrom starts this year

good night

You keep bringing this up, and also say wins don't matter. So what is your point? If a pitcher's W/L record doesn't matter to you, then who cares how much support he gets?

Scherzer will probably get plenty of support when he starts the All Star game too.

[Homerun]

Anyone's ballot that doesn't have Jose Abreu as the starting 1st baseman for the AL means nothing.

[no10pin]

Anyone's ballot that doesn't have Jose Abreu as the starting 1st baseman for the AL means nothing.

LOL, keep doing you.

Abreu is having a good year, but he's not clearly better than Moreland at anything at the moment. Either one is a decent pick, but your homer is showing. Again.

[KCfan1985]

#VoteSalvy

^:)!:)!:)!:)!

[Hollywood42]

First voting update in the NL-

C

1. Buster Posey, Giants: 281,331
2. Willson Contreras, Cubs: 259,427
3. Kurt Suzuki, Braves: 223,108
4. Francisco Cervelli, Pirates: 168,832
5. Yadier Molina, Cardinals: 152,336

1B

1. Freddie Freeman, Braves: 633,342
2. Anthony Rizzo, Cubs: 248,275
3. Brandon Belt, Giants: 162,750
4. Cody Bellinger, Dodgers: 113,392
5. Joey Votto, Reds: 83,272

2B

1. Ozzie Albies, Braves: 398,816
2. Javier Baez, Cubs: 360,307
3. Scooter Gennett, Reds: 309,512
4. Asdrubal Cabrera, Mets: 97,243
5. Joe Panik, Giants: 62,325

3B

1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 527,683
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 305,062
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 152,260
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 87,659
5. Justin Turner, Dodgers: 87,387

SS

1. Brandon Crawford, Giants: 466,021
2. Dansby Swanson, Braves: 225,182
3. Addison Russell, Cubs: 210,764
4. Trea Turner, Nationals: 158,252
5. Trevor Story, Rockies: 143,603


OF

1. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 498,189
2. Nick Markakis, Braves: 494,206
3. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 351,780
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 309,099
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 277,077
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 225,225
7. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 203,299
8. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 196,837
9. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 189,234
10. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 175,583
11. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 163,575
12. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 150,239
13. A.J. Pollock, D-backs: 110,055
14. Matt Adams, Nationals: 106,317
15. Lorenzo Cain, Brewers: 104,948

Too early too get overly upset about things, but looks like the Cubs voters are out in strong numbers again... Schwarver, Zobrist, Heyward, Russell.... yikes

[grandmasterPRA]

First voting update in the NL-

C

1. Buster Posey, Giants: 281,331
2. Willson Contreras, Cubs: 259,427
3. Kurt Suzuki, Braves: 223,108
4. Francisco Cervelli, Pirates: 168,832
5. Yadier Molina, Cardinals: 152,336

1B

1. Freddie Freeman, Braves: 633,342
2. Anthony Rizzo, Cubs: 248,275
3. Brandon Belt, Giants: 162,750
4. Cody Bellinger, Dodgers: 113,392
5. Joey Votto, Reds: 83,272

2B

1. Ozzie Albies, Braves: 398,816
2. Javier Baez, Cubs: 360,307
3. Scooter Gennett, Reds: 309,512
4. Asdrubal Cabrera, Mets: 97,243
5. Joe Panik, Giants: 62,325

3B

1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 527,683
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 305,062
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 152,260
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 87,659
5. Justin Turner, Dodgers: 87,387

SS

1. Brandon Crawford, Giants: 466,021
2. Dansby Swanson, Braves: 225,182
3. Addison Russell, Cubs: 210,764
4. Trea Turner, Nationals: 158,252
5. Trevor Story, Rockies: 143,603


OF

1. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 498,189
2. Nick Markakis, Braves: 494,206
3. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 351,780
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 309,099
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 277,077
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 225,225
7. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 203,299
8. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 196,837
9. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 189,234
10. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 175,583
11. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 163,575
12. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 150,239
13. A.J. Pollock, D-backs: 110,055
14. Matt Adams, Nationals: 106,317
15. Lorenzo Cain, Brewers: 104,948

Too early too get overly upset about things, but looks like the Cubs voters are out in strong numbers again... Schwarver, Zobrist, Heyward, Russell.... yikes

My overreactions on each position:

C - As much as I would love to see buster get another all star bid (Giants Fan), I just don't see it this year. I would give it to Cervelli.

1B - Not going to argue with Freeman. He deserves it. If I had any complaints it would be that Anthony Rizzo has no business being above Brandon Belt. I don't even have Rizzo in my top 10, let alone #2. Also, Goldschmidt is gettting hot, another reason why I hate voting being at the mid way point.

2B - All good choices except Joe Panik. I personally would have Scooter as my starting second baseman on my ballot.

3B - Arenado with Bryant a close second is exactly how I would have it. Camargo ranked too high, I would have Shaw, Rendon, and Carpenter above him. Wait a second.......is that Justin Turner?!?!?!?!?!?!

SS - About a month ago I would never say this, but Crawford is 100% the best SS in the NL right now. He would be a very deserving starter. This top 5 is very solid. maybe I'd replace Russell with Chris Taylor

OF - This list is by far the worst. Bryce Harper is going to get in whether he deserves it or not. This year he definitely does not deserve it. Lots of Home Runs does not equal a good season. He is ranked 16th out of NL Outfielders in fWAR and has a .228 Batting Average. Doesn't belong anywhere near #1. Cain and Nimmo are both being completely snubbed. Blackmon, Acuna and Inciarte all don't belong near the top 10. If you want proof as to why fan voting doesn't work, just look at this list. My goodness.

[jstasyk1121]

First voting update in the NL-

C

1. Buster Posey, Giants: 281,331
2. Willson Contreras, Cubs: 259,427
3. Kurt Suzuki, Braves: 223,108
4. Francisco Cervelli, Pirates: 168,832
5. Yadier Molina, Cardinals: 152,336

1B

1. Freddie Freeman, Braves: 633,342
2. Anthony Rizzo, Cubs: 248,275
3. Brandon Belt, Giants: 162,750
4. Cody Bellinger, Dodgers: 113,392
5. Joey Votto, Reds: 83,272

2B

1. Ozzie Albies, Braves: 398,816
2. Javier Baez, Cubs: 360,307
3. Scooter Gennett, Reds: 309,512
4. Asdrubal Cabrera, Mets: 97,243
5. Joe Panik, Giants: 62,325

3B

1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 527,683
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 305,062
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 152,260
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 87,659
5. Justin Turner, Dodgers: 87,387

SS

1. Brandon Crawford, Giants: 466,021
2. Dansby Swanson, Braves: 225,182
3. Addison Russell, Cubs: 210,764
4. Trea Turner, Nationals: 158,252
5. Trevor Story, Rockies: 143,603


OF

1. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 498,189
2. Nick Markakis, Braves: 494,206
3. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 351,780
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 309,099
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 277,077
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 225,225
7. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 203,299
8. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 196,837
9. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 189,234
10. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 175,583
11. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 163,575
12. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 150,239
13. A.J. Pollock, D-backs: 110,055
14. Matt Adams, Nationals: 106,317
15. Lorenzo Cain, Brewers: 104,948

Too early too get overly upset about things, but looks like the Cubs voters are out in strong numbers again... Schwarver, Zobrist, Heyward, Russell.... yikes

cubs? Braves stand out WAY more than cubs to me on this first return....

Johan Camargo, Dansby, Markakis starting, Acuna/Inciarte right there in OF....

Camargo has 120ab and hitting .209
Acuna has 120ab and currently hurt...and not much when healthy
Dansby hitting .266 with .320obp and not much production
Inciarte hitting .240..obp sub-.300...0.2war...

Freeman is obvious....

Markakis is having very nice year...but still...its Markakis starting...

but yea...Braves fans clearly taking the baton from cubs/royals and pumping their guys hard!

[Hollywood42]

First AL voting update

C

1. Gary Sanchez, Yankees: 336,280
2. Wilson Ramos, Rays: 320,969
3. Brian McCann, Astros: 174,661
4. Salvador Perez, Royals: 144,457
5. Martin Maldonado, Angels: 94,928

1B

1. Jose Abreu, White Sox: 267,812
2. Mitch Moreland, Red Sox: 241,889
3. Miguel Cabrera, Tigers: 173,174
4. Albert Pujols, Angels: 155,219
5. Yuli Gurriel, Astros: 154,363

2B

1. Jose Altuve, Astros: 701,236
2. Gleyber Torres, Yankees: 279,810
3. Dee Gordon, Mariners: 87,647
4. Jed Lowrie, A's: 70,454
5. Jason Kipnis, Indians: 68,151

3B

1. Jose Ramirez, Indians: 443,234
2. Miguel Andujar, Yankees: 219,691
3. Alex Bregman, Astros: 180,911
4. Adrian Beltre, Rangers: 121,403
5. Mike Moustakas, Royals: 112,150

SS

1. Manny Machado, Orioles: 321,887
2. Francisco Lindor, Indians: 211,756
3. Didi Gregorius, Yankees: 208,583
4. Carlos Correa, Astros: 206,727
5. Andrelton Simmons, Angels:135,562

OF

1. Mookie Betts, Red Sox: 748,872
2. Mike Trout, Angels: 639,822
3. Aaron Judge, Yankees: 541,983
4. Michael Brantley, Indians: 238,659
5. George Springer, Astros: 225,316
6. Andrew Benintendi, Red Sox: 208,837
7. Brett Gardner, Yankees: 160,123
8. Marwin Gonzalez, Astros: 132,961
9. Nicholas Castellanos, Tigers: 124,676
10. Josh Reddick, Astros: 124,340
11. Aaron Hicks, Yankees: 119,660
12. Jackie Bradley Jr., Red Sox: 105,821
13. Mitch Haniger, Mariners: 100,149
14. Eddie Rosario, Twins: 92,271
15. Tyler Naquin, Indians: 63,725

DH

1. J.D. Martinez, Red Sox: 513,415
2. Giancarlo Stanton, Yankees: 231,885
3. Shohei Ohtani, Angels: 218,981
4. Evan Gattis, Astros: 155,091
5. Edwin Encarnacion, Indians: 119,526



At first glance, this list looks a lot better than the first NL update. Have a few minor complaints with some of the non-leaders at a few positions, but I actually think all of the current starters are logical and good choices. As a Twins fan, I'd like to see Rosario much higher among OFs, and Eduardo Escobar deserves a much closer look at 3B than he's currently getting. But all in all, this is good so far

PS- Tyler Naquin. Lol

[rman112]

First AL voting update

C

1. Gary Sanchez, Yankees: 336,280
2. Wilson Ramos, Rays: 320,969
3. Brian McCann, Astros: 174,661
4. Salvador Perez, Royals: 144,457
5. Martin Maldonado, Angels: 94,928

1B

1. Jose Abreu, White Sox: 267,812
2. Mitch Moreland, Red Sox: 241,889
3. Miguel Cabrera, Tigers: 173,174
4. Albert Pujols, Angels: 155,219
5. Yuli Gurriel, Astros: 154,363

2B

1. Jose Altuve, Astros: 701,236
2. Gleyber Torres, Yankees: 279,810
3. Dee Gordon, Mariners: 87,647
4. Jed Lowrie, A's: 70,454
5. Jason Kipnis, Indians: 68,151

3B

1. Jose Ramirez, Indians: 443,234
2. Miguel Andujar, Yankees: 219,691
3. Alex Bregman, Astros: 180,911
4. Adrian Beltre, Rangers: 121,403
5. Mike Moustakas, Royals: 112,150

SS

1. Manny Machado, Orioles: 321,887
2. Francisco Lindor, Indians: 211,756
3. Didi Gregorius, Yankees: 208,583
4. Carlos Correa, Astros: 206,727
5. Andrelton Simmons, Angels:135,562

OF

1. Mookie Betts, Red Sox: 748,872
2. Mike Trout, Angels: 639,822
3. Aaron Judge, Yankees: 541,983
4. Michael Brantley, Indians: 238,659
5. George Springer, Astros: 225,316
6. Andrew Benintendi, Red Sox: 208,837
7. Brett Gardner, Yankees: 160,123
8. Marwin Gonzalez, Astros: 132,961
9. Nicholas Castellanos, Tigers: 124,676
10. Josh Reddick, Astros: 124,340
11. Aaron Hicks, Yankees: 119,660
12. Jackie Bradley Jr., Red Sox: 105,821
13. Mitch Haniger, Mariners: 100,149
14. Eddie Rosario, Twins: 92,271
15. Tyler Naquin, Indians: 63,725

DH

1. J.D. Martinez, Red Sox: 513,415
2. Giancarlo Stanton, Yankees: 231,885
3. Shohei Ohtani, Angels: 218,981
4. Evan Gattis, Astros: 155,091
5. Edwin Encarnacion, Indians: 119,526



At first glance, this list looks a lot better than the first NL update. Have a few minor complaints with some of the non-leaders at a few positions, but I actually think all of the current starters are logical and good choices. As a Twins fan, I'd like to see Rosario much higher among OFs, and Eduardo Escobar deserves a much closer look at 3B than he's currently getting. But all in all, this is good so far

PS- Tyler Naquin. Lol

Jackie Bradley Jr

[PejaD]

Have some Atlanta hackers figured out limitless voting?

[Hollywood42]

email@email.com
email1@email.com
email2@email.com

Have some Atlanta hackers figured out limitless voting?

[clocsta2323]

Darth Bryzzo alert.. the people have spoken and its not even close. A guy named Camargo no one has heard of is closer to Bryant than Bryant is to Arenado

3B

1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 527,683
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 305,062
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 152,260
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 87,659
5. Justin Turner, Dodgers: 87,387

[Homerun]

Darth Bryzzo alert.. the people have spoken and its not even close. A guy named Camargo no one has heard of is closer to Bryant than Bryant is to Arenado

3B

1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 527,683
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 305,062
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 152,260
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 87,659
5. Justin Turner, Dodgers: 87,387

Logic doesn't apply when it comes to Cubs fans.

[clocsta2323]

Logic doesn't apply when it comes to Cubs fans.

Suarez should be higher than Bryant honestly.. but it is nice to see Arenado have one of the biggest separations in #1/#2 voting. Well deserved, perpetual accolades for an otherworldly 3B.

[jason122883]

Man, Segura not even being in the top 5 at SS is ROUGH. I know the AL is very deep at that position, but he's been one of the best

[awz50]

Jackie Bradley Jr

People obviously have not been watching him

[packman80]

Brewers top team in NL and have no one ranked top 5 at any spot in voting

[Hollywood42]

To be fair, there's not really any Brewers with fantastic stats. That's not to say the team as a whole isn't having a great year, but on an individual basis, there's probably not anyone on the team that deserves to start right now. Yelich is probably the closest, but he should be solidly behind the likes of Pollock, Markakis, Peralta, Kemp, Blackmon, and maybe a few others

After that, the only other position players that have decent lines are Cain and Shaw. Cain is at least behind Yelich and everyone else I named above, if not more, and while Shaw's numbers are fine, they're not really All-Star worthy. Plus it'd be incredibly hard to make it over Arenado and Bryant just based on fandom

It is pretty interesting that the Brewers have been so successful without really having great years from any position players, but I don't think it's too far fetched to not have any Brewers in the top 5

Brewers top team in NL and have no one ranked top 5 at any spot in voting

[texmcpherson]

Logic doesn't apply when it comes to Cubs fans.

I voted for Arenado

:coffee:

Brewers top team in NL and have no one ranked top 5 at any spot in voting

What Brewer would you take over any starter? Yelich/Cain? Nope. Shaw over Arenado? Nope. Hader is the best bet for starting anything.

[Hollywood42]

Well the jerseys are pretty gross looking. Wouldn't be so bad if they didn't split the team name on the chest into two colors. Makes it super hard to read. Love the ASG socks though

https://twitter.com/AllStarGame/status/1007668484636016645

[rman112]

To be fair, there's not really any Brewers with fantastic stats. That's not to say the team as a whole isn't having a great year, but on an individual basis, there's probably not anyone on the team that deserves to start right now. Yelich is probably the closest, but he should be solidly behind the likes of Pollock, Markakis, Peralta, Kemp, Blackmon, and maybe a few others

After that, the only other position players that have decent lines are Cain and Shaw. Cain is at least behind Yelich and everyone else I named above, if not more, and while Shaw's numbers are fine, they're not really All-Star worthy. Plus it'd be incredibly hard to make it over Arenado and Bryant just based on fandom

It is pretty interesting that the Brewers have been so successful without really having great years from any position players, but I don't think it's too far fetched to not have any Brewers in the top 5

Gotta be a pitcher for Milwaukee. Hader, and to a lesser degree, Jeffress, have been unbelievable. Guerra too if if he stays healthy/keeps this up.

[Hollywood42]

Definitely, both Hader and Jeffress are very deserving. But in terms of position players who we get to vote for, there's really not anyone that should be up there in the voting

Gotta be a pitcher for Milwaukee. Hader, and to a lesser degree, Jeffress, have been unbelievable. Guerra too if if he stays healthy/keeps this up.

[rman112]

Definitely, both Hader and Jeffress are very deserving. But in terms of position players who we get to vote for, there's really not anyone that should be up there in the voting

Agreed, no one really jumping out. Not exactly on topic, but I do think fans should get to vote for pitchers.. especially now that the game doesn't count.

[Hollywood42]

Kinda thought it's weird we don't get to. When it counted for something, that makes sense, but yeah now that it doesn't, why not? Limit it to 5 or something if you still want the manager to be able to make some of the decisions

Agreed, no one really jumping out. Not exactly on topic, but I do think fans should get to vote for pitchers.. especially now that the game doesn't count.

[rman112]

Kinda thought it's weird we don't get to. When it counted for something, that makes sense, but yeah now that it doesn't, why not? Limit it to 5 or something if you still want the manager to be able to make some of the decisions

I was going to say that fans should be able to pick all of them, but it'd probably be impossible to end up with one guy from every team.

[SoftMuscle]

Man, Segura not even being in the top 5 at SS is ROUGH. I know the AL is very deep at that position, but he's been one of the best

Yeah it sucks I imagine he won't be a Final Vote candidate either - and even if he is, unlikely he wins. So off the radar. Only way he's probably getting in is if someone gets injured at the last minute and he can replace.

[VeedonFleece]

Lorenzo Cain is 2nd in NL WAR, both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference, behind only Freddie Freeman, yet you guys don't even think he belongs in the conversation. Maybe some people should have their voting rights removed...

[VeedonFleece]

First voting update in the NL-

OF

1. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 498,189
2. Nick Markakis, Braves: 494,206
3. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 351,780
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 309,099
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 277,077
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 225,225
7. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 203,299
8. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 196,837
9. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 189,234
10. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 175,583
11. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 163,575
12. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 150,239
13. A.J. Pollock, D-backs: 110,055
14. Matt Adams, Nationals: 106,317


All more deserving than Cain, no doubt. (Crazy smiley)

[Hollywood42]

Obviously who deserves to be before Cain and who is actually head of Cain at this point is not going to line up. It shouldn't be any sort of surprise by now that the voting process allows this

Again, Cain's having a good season. .290 with 8 HR, a good K:BB, solid OBP. But he's definitely behind numerous other players right now, and there's not really any question about it despite what WAR might try to tell you. If we're going off of WAR, then Matt Chapman should be the first position player voted in after Trout, Jose Ramirez, and Betts

All more deserving than Cain, no doubt. (Crazy smiley)

Lorenzo Cain is 2nd in NL WAR, both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference, behind only Freddie Freeman, yet you guys don't even think he belongs in the conversation. Maybe some people should have their voting rights removed...

[texmcpherson]

Lorenzo Cain is 2nd in NL WAR, both Fangraphs and Baseball Reference, behind only Freddie Freeman, yet you guys don't even think he belongs in the conversation. Maybe some people should have their voting rights removed...

Maybe we shouldn’t get so bent out of shape of something that’s a fan vote and clearly been flawed for years.

[DdhMoco]

Poor Jose Martinez for the Cardinals doesn't even get in the Top 5, and other than Freeman is killing it at 1st. His defense is a train wreck but he is a very fun to watch play...

[Hollywood42]

Martinez has been killing it. Going to go down as my best FA add in just about all of my fantasy leagues this year. NL 1B is a tough one to win the vote since there's so many great players there, but certainly deserves to be in the conversation

Poor Jose Martinez for the Cardinals doesn't even get in the Top 5, and other than Freeman is killing it at 1st. His defense is a train wreck but he is a very fun to watch play...

[DdhMoco]

Martinez has been killing it. Going to go down as my best FA add in just about all of my fantasy leagues this year. NL 1B is a tough one to win the vote since there's so many great players there, but certainly deserves to be in the conversation


Oh I agree 1st base is a log jam of great players in the national league. The All-Star game could use a Jose Martinez and players like him that seem to go out and have fun. Can't really argue the names ahead of him from a career stand point, but shame to see him not get the respect he earned this year thus far.

[VeedonFleece]

Obviously who deserves to be before Cain and who is actually head of Cain at this point is not going to line up. It shouldn't be any sort of surprise by now that the voting process allows this

Again, Cain's having a good season. .290 with 8 HR, a good K:BB, solid OBP. But he's definitely behind numerous other players right now, and there's not really any question about it despite what WAR might try to tell you.

Yep, there's no question that all of those players have been better than Cain, despite what a metric designed to tell you who has been better says. He just doesn't pass the eye test.

[Hollywood42]

Again, I'm not saying the guys with more votes in the NL OF than Cain deserve to have more votes. Obviously something that results in Acuna, Schwarber, Zobrist, etc isn't a strong system. But even a system that perfectly rewarded the deserving candidates wouldn't have Cain in the top 4 right now. I've already named several players ahead of him, so go back and read one of my past few posts if you care to

Do you think Matt Chapman is the 5th best player in the league this year? Eddie Rosario the 9th best? That's what WAR says

Yep, there's no question that all of those players have been better than Cain, despite what a metric designed to tell you who has been better says. He just doesn't pass the eye test.

[VeedonFleece]

Again, I'm not saying the guys with more votes in the NL OF than Cain deserve to have more votes. Obviously something that results in Acuna, Schwarber, Zobrist, etc isn't a strong system. But even a system that perfectly rewarded the deserving candidates wouldn't have Cain in the top 4 right now. I've already named several players ahead of him, so go back and read one of my past few posts if you care to

Do you think Matt Chapman is the 5th best player in the league this year? Eddie Rosario the 9th best? That's what WAR says

I've seen your other posts. I saw the list of players that you believe are more 'deserving' candidates. In what way are they more deserving? More RBIs?

[ThoseBackPages]

the ASG is boring

[Big35Hurt]

Logic doesn't apply when it comes to Cubs fans.

:cry: :doh:

[Hollywood42]

Cain's not even the most merited OF on his team. Yelich has better stats almost across the board. The guys I threw out as being ahead of Yelich were Pollock, Markakis, Peralta, Kemp, and Blackmon. I'll also toss in Dickerson, Harper, and Marte, as those guys are around the same tier as well. Here's how they all stack up in a variety of stats-

AVG
Kemp .335
Markakis .325
Dickerson .306
Yelich .301
Pollock .293
Cain .290
Marte .287
Peralta .284
Blackmon .283
Harper .225

R
Blackmon 51
Yelich 45
Cain 42
Harper 41
Markakis 41
Marte 35
Peralta 33
Dickerson 31
Kemp 31
Pollock 23

HR
Harper 19
Peralta 14
Blackmon 13
Kemp 11
Pollock 11
Yelich 9
Cain 8
Markakis 8
Marte 8
Dickerson 5

RBI
Markakis 44
Harper 43
Kemp 42
Peralta 36
Pollock 33
Blackmon 32
Dickerson 32
Marte 31
Yelich 30
Cain 24

OBP
Cain .388
Markakis .388
Yelich .372
Kemp .370
Harper .366
Blackmon .362
Pollock .349
Peralta .347
Dickerson .341
Marte .341

SLG
Pollock .620
Kemp .566
Peralta .514
Harper .498
Blackmon .496
Markakis .485
Yelich .482
Marte .475
Dickerson .459
Cain .445

BB
Harper 51
Cain 39
Blackmon 30
Markakis 30
Yelich 24
Peralta 21
Marte 19
Kemp 13
Pollock 12
Dickerson 11

How do you justify Cain as a top 3 NL OF so far this year? Other than WAR because that's obviously not a great statistic to use by itself. Cain's not even the most deserving OF on his team, and Yelich isn't a top 2 OF so far this year in the NL. Again, Cain's having a nice year. But he certainly doesn't deserve to start in the ASG

I've seen your other posts. I saw the list of players that you believe are more 'deserving' candidates. In what way are they more deserving? More RBIs?

[ThoseBackPages]

cain is boring

[Hail2TheVictors]

cain is boring

Clectors proclaim the hobby is (boring and) dead!

[ThoseBackPages]

:)!:)!:)!

Clectors proclaim the hobby is (boring and) dead!

[VeedonFleece]

Cain's not even the most merited OF on his team. Yelich has better stats almost across the board. The guys I threw out as being ahead of Yelich were Pollock, Markakis, Peralta, Kemp, and Blackmon. I'll also toss in Dickerson, Harper, and Marte, as those guys are around the same tier as well. Here's how they all stack up in a variety of stats

How do you justify Cain as a top 3 NL OF so far this year? Other than WAR because that's obviously not a great statistic to use by itself. Cain's not even the most deserving OF on his team, and Yelich isn't a top 2 OF so far this year in the NL. Again, Cain's having a nice year. But he certainly doesn't deserve to start in the ASG

Ah, I see, we're using old school stats and ignoring defense and baserunning.

Among ALL NL players, Cain is 3rd in UZR, T4th in DRS, 4th in SB, 6th in Fangraphs BsR. Still, just 8 dingers.

[rman112]

Ah, I see, we're using old school stats and ignoring defense and baserunning.

Among ALL NL players, Cain is 3rd in UZR, T4th in DRS, 4th in SB, 6th in Fangraphs BsR. Still, just 8 dingers.

What would you say the correlation is between people using advanced stats, and those same people getting offended/snarky when others don't see them as them as the greatest creations of our new world?

[ThoseBackPages]

What would you say the correlation is between people using advanced stats, and those same people getting offended/snarky when others don't see them as them as the greatest creations of our new world?

juicers and clean, boring players!

[VeedonFleece]

What would you say the correlation is between people using advanced stats, and those same people getting offended/snarky when others don't see them as them as the greatest creations of our new world?

People can use whatever stats they like. They can even choose to ignore defense and baserunning if they wish.

To answer your question: 42

[VeedonFleece]

Just checked, Cain has made an error and some of those other guys haven't. I feel stupid now.

[rman112]

People can use whatever stats they like. They can even choose to ignore defense and baserunning if they wish.

To answer your question: 42

The problem with all these new stats is they way, way downplay hitting. There's no doubt Cain does other things well, but at the end of the day .290 doesn't stand out. Solid, no doubt.

[Hollywood42]

Yikes, ok!

Ah, I see, we're using old school stats and ignoring defense and baserunning.

Among ALL NL players, Cain is 3rd in UZR, T4th in DRS, 4th in SB, 6th in Fangraphs BsR. Still, just 8 dingers.

[VeedonFleece]

The problem with all these new stats is they way, way downplay hitting. There's no doubt Cain does other things well, but at the end of the day .290 doesn't stand out. Solid, no doubt.

He's 17th in wOBA, T16th in wRC+. It's not like he's a black hole atop the lineup. And his defense and baserunning has been among the very best in the league. Most of the people stating he's not worthy of a spot have completely ignored those elements. They've downplayed both aspects far more than new stats way, way downplay hitting.

[rman112]

He's 17th in wOBA, T16th in wRC+. It's not like he's a black hole atop the lineup. And his defense and baserunning has been among the very best in the league. Most of the people stating he's not worthy of a spot have completely ignored those elements. They've downplayed both aspects far more than new stats way, way downplay hitting.

Never said he's a black hole. He's a solid leadoff hitter. Where would you say he should be in the voting?

[texmcpherson]

Uh oh who whipped out the advanced metrics!

[VeedonFleece]

Never said he's a black hole. He's a solid leadoff hitter. Where would you say he should be in the voting?


Probably about 15th! I don't really care that much whether he makes the game or not, I never watch the ASG anyway. My objection is with people saying he doesn't deserve it, or to even be close. He clearly does.

I'd bet money* he makes it anyway, one way or another. Brewers fans are bound to be collectively slighted that none of their best-record-in-NL lineup is in line to make it and I see Cain as the one they'll rally behind. Even if he doesn't make it through the ballot, I can see him being a manager's pick.

*Not on this site, obviously.

[rman112]

Probably about 15th! I don't really care that much whether he makes the game or not, I never watch the ASG anyway. My objection is with people saying he doesn't deserve it, or to even be close. He clearly does.

I'd bet money* he makes it anyway, one way or another. Brewers fans are bound to be collectively slighted that none of their best-record-in-NL lineup is in line to make it and I see Cain as the one they'll rally behind. Even if he doesn't make it through the ballot, I can see him being a manager's pick.

*Not on this site, obviously.

... 15th?

[Hollywood42]

Well 15th really isn't that close to deserving it... Again, nobody has said he's not having a good year. He is. Just not starting in the ASG good, and yeah, I do think there's a good margin from where he is to where the starters are

Probably about 15th! I don't really care that much whether he makes the game or not, I never watch the ASG anyway. My objection is with people saying he doesn't deserve it, or to even be close. He clearly does.

I'd bet money* he makes it anyway, one way or another. Brewers fans are bound to be collectively slighted that none of their best-record-in-NL lineup is in line to make it and I see Cain as the one they'll rally behind. Even if he doesn't make it through the ballot, I can see him being a manager's pick.

*Not on this site, obviously.

[VeedonFleece]

Well 15th really isn't that close to deserving it... Again, nobody has said he's not having a good year. He is. Just not starting in the ASG good, and yeah, I do think there's a good margin from where he is to where the starters are

I was joking. Obviously (though not so obvious to all, it seems) I think he deserves to be much higher.

As I said earlier, continue to ignore defense and baserunning if you wish.

[rman112]

I was joking. Obviously (though not so obvious to all, it seems) I think he deserves to be much higher.

As I said earlier, continue to ignore defense and baserunning if you wish.

So where?

[Hollywood42]

Ok, so actually tell us where you think he belongs then

I was joking. Obviously (though not so obvious to all, it seems) I think he deserves to be much higher.

As I said earlier, continue to ignore defense and baserunning if you wish.

[VeedonFleece]

Fine, he should be 1st. Think he might win MVP too.

[rman112]

Fine, he should be 1st. Think he might win MVP too.

Well, that was a waste of time.

[Hollywood42]

Well, that was a waste of time.

^^^^^

[VeedonFleece]

Well, that was a waste of time.

It's all a waste of time, it's the friggin' All Star Game! Seriously though, what did you want me to put? Would 4th have been acceptable?

[Hollywood42]

Genuinely curious to where you would put him since you seem to think he's close, but I think there are numerous OFs safely above him

It's all a waste of time, it's the friggin' All Star Game! Seriously though, what did you want me to put? Would 4th have been acceptable?

[VeedonFleece]

I'd be happy to take WAR at face value, and that says he's been worth over half a win more than his closest rival. So yeah, 1st.

Edit: As he's hitting 3rd tonight, hopefully he'll be able to pad his RBI numbers to appease you dinosaurs!

[Hollywood42]

:doh:

I'd be happy to take WAR at face value, and that says he's been worth over half a win more than his closest rival. So yeah, 1st.

[VeedonFleece]

:doh:

Weird, that's how I feel reading your posts too.

Defense and baserunning are bad, right?

[rman112]

Which website's WAR calculation is the right one?

[Hollywood42]

Is Matt Chapman the 5th best player in the MLB this year?

Weird, that's how I feel reading your posts too.

Defense and baserunning are bad, right?

[VeedonFleece]

Which website's WAR calculation is the right one?

He's 2nd on both. Freeman leads both.

[VeedonFleece]

Is Matt Chapman the 5th best player in the MLB this year?

You mean 5th in AL? Sure, why not?

Edit: Wow, I see he's actually 4th in MLB on B-Ref. No offense, but I'd prefer to use their assessment than yours.

[Hollywood42]

Ok. Think we’re done here

Sure, why not?

[rman112]

He's 2nd on both. Freeman leads both.

The first one I clicked on was ESPN and he's 8th.

No shot on Chapman. Not only is there no legitimate way to accurately calculate defense, but he's also tied for 2nd in the league with 11 errors... and he's hitting .250 with 26 RBI (I know, I know.. driving in a guy to score a run in a game where the most runs wins doesn't matter).

[VeedonFleece]

The first one I clicked on was ESPN and he's 8th.

No shot on Chapman. Not only is there no legitimate way to accurately calculate defense, but he's also tied for 2nd in the league with 11 errors... and he's hitting .250 with 26 RBI (I know, I know.. driving in a guy to score a run in a game where the most runs wins doesn't matter).

I only use B-Ref and FanGraphs. I've no idea about Chapman's merits, I don't take too much notice of the AL. I did notice he leads all MLB in defensive WAR though, which doesn't tally with what you say about him. I will agree (and have said so on multiple occasions on other threads) that defensive metrics are very unreliable. That said, does anyone NOT think Cain is among the best defenders in the NL?

[VeedonFleece]

Ok. Think we’re done here

Wish you were. You're not adding much.

[rman112]

I only use B-Ref and FanGraphs. I've no idea about Chapman's merits, I don't take too much notice of the AL. I did notice he leads all MLB in defensive WAR though, which doesn't tally with what you say about him. I will agree (and have said so on multiple occasions on other threads) that defensive metrics are very unreliable. That said, does anyone NOT think Cain is among the best defenders in the NL?

So you just take what other people have put together, repeat it, and then act as if your views are superior?

[Hollywood42]

Wish you were. You're not adding much.

............

Just checked, Cain has made an error and some of those other guys haven't. I feel stupid now.

People can use whatever stats they like. They can even choose to ignore defense and baserunning if they wish.

To answer your question: 42

Probably about 15th!

I was joking. Obviously (though not so obvious to all, it seems) I think he deserves to be much higher.

As I said earlier, continue to ignore defense and baserunning if you wish.

Fine, he should be 1st. Think he might win MVP too.

It's all a waste of time, it's the friggin' All Star Game! Seriously though, what did you want me to put? Would 4th have been acceptable?

Weird, that's how I feel reading your posts too.

Defense and baserunning are bad, right?

You mean 5th in AL? Sure, why not?

Edit: Wow, I see he's actually 4th in MLB on B-Ref. No offense, but I'd prefer to use their assessment than yours.

[VeedonFleece]

So you just take what other people have put together, repeat it, and then act as if your views are superior?

Not at all, although I'd argue that taking offensive stats and combining them with defense and baserunning gives a more rounded view of a player. Do you think otherwise?

[VeedonFleece]

............

You want me to multiquote you? Just read back through your contributions.

[VeedonFleece]

So you just take what other people have put together, repeat it, and then act as if your views are superior?

Upon further reflection, yes my view, stolen from others, IS superior to someone who only considers production on offense.

[rman112]

Not at all, although I'd argue that taking offensive stats and combining them with defense and baserunning gives a more rounded view of a player. Do you think otherwise?

Yeah, but something doesn't jive when a guy like Chapman is viewed so highly because of just his defense, especially when it's something that's highly subjective. And he's not even playing the toughest position in the infield.

Does WAR differentiate in errors? I mean, if a guy makes an error and he later scores, is it scored worse than if a guy makes an error and he's stranded?

[VeedonFleece]

Yeah, but something doesn't jive when a guy like Chapman is viewed so highly because of just his defense, especially when it's something that's highly subjective. And he's not even playing the toughest position in the infield.

Does WAR differentiate in errors? I mean, if a guy makes an error and he later scores, is it scored worse than if a guy makes an error and he's stranded?

I genuinely don't know. I'd like to think that all errors aren't created equally though. Jeter, for example, didn't make many errors because he couldn't get to half the balls hit in his direction.

[VeedonFleece]

Cain picked off 1st. That'll see his baserunning (and WAR) plummet.

[rman112]

I genuinely don't know. I'd like to think that all errors aren't created equally though. Jeter, for example, didn't make many errors because he couldn't get to half the balls hit in his direction.

It's nice to see that you take something that you don't fully understand at face value and absolute.

You mentioned that Chapman's defensive numbers don't match up with "what I say about him". The fact that he's got 11 errors isn't what I said about him. It's what he's got.

[marl1220]

Arguing about All Star balloting is pointless.

[VeedonFleece]

It's nice to see that you take something that you don't fully understand at face value and absolute.

It's similarly nice to see that you ignore me saying a few posts ago that I've long said that I consider defensive metrics to be unreliable. Again, do you not think Cain is one of the best defenders in the NL?

[rman112]

It's similarly nice to see thatt you ignore me saying a few posts ago that I've long said that I consider defensive metrics to be unreliable. Again, do you not think Cain is one of the best defenders in the NL?

I do. But I don't think it overrides guys that are hitting 30+ points higher than him.

If defensive metrics aren't reliable, how do you view them as definite as to who is or isn't having the best season? With Matt Chapman specifically.

[rman112]

What's crazy is Cain has 14 steals.. and that it's good for 6th in all of baseball.

[VeedonFleece]

I do. But I don't think it overrides guys that are hitting 30+ points higher than him.

If defensive metrics aren't reliable, how do you view them as definite as to who is or isn't having the best season? With Matt Chapman specifically.

They may be hitting 30 points better yet Cain still leads all NL outfielders in OBP.

I don't want to get into Chapman since I've literally never seen him play. For whatever reason, defensive metrics do seem to love him. When I say they're unreliable, it's not that I don't think they have value, rather that they are not entirely trustworthy on a single season basis, as you suggest in your question. How else are we to gauge defensive worth though? Fielding percentage?

[rman112]

They may be hitting 30 points better yet Cain still leads all NL outfielders in OBP.

I don't want to get into Chapman since I've literally never seen him play. For whatever reason, defensive metrics do seem to love him. When I say they're unreliable, it's not that I don't think they have value, rather that they are not entirely trustworthy on a single season basis, as you suggest in your question. How else are we to gauge defensive worth though? Fielding percentage?

I don't think there's any other way better than watching a guy play every day.

[VeedonFleece]

I don't think there's any other way better than watching a guy play every day.

Well, I just watched his 2017 highlights on youtube so at least I now know what he looks like. Has to be said he made some nice plays. It may not be the toughest position to play but, as someone who has never played, it's the last position on the field I'd want to play.

[rman112]

Well, I just watched his 2017 highlights on youtube so at least I now know what he looks like. Has to be said he made some nice plays. It may not be the toughest position to play but, as someone who has never played, it's the last position on the field I'd want to play.

I wasn't trying to say that he wasn't very good in the field, just moreso his defense in relation to his WAR, especially with the number of errors.

He makes a ton of highlight plays. Went to the same HS as Arenado, too.

Third can definitely be a tough position to play. Gotta have a good first step to cover both the line and glove side, and a good arm. Ball can get there in an instant, too.

I think the last position you'd wanna play is Catcher.. LOL. I never wanted any part of that!

[PejaD]

Updated for latest voting results. Also removed some guys who look to be on the DL for a bit longer (Pollock, Chapman, etc.). My take (using starters from recent balloting results, each team rep'd, and include a few setup relievers and super-utility guys per league):

AL Starters:
C W Ramos TBR
1B J Abreu CWS
2B J Altuve HOU
SS M Machado BAL
3B J Ramirez CLE
LF M Betts BOS
CF M Trout LAA
RF A Judge NYY
DH JD Martinez BOS

AL Reserves:
C S Perez KCR
1B M Moreland BOS
2B J Lowrie OAK
SS A Simmons LAA
SS C Correa HOU
SS F Lindor CLE
3B A Bregman HOU
IF-LF Y Solarte TOR
OF E Rosario MIN
OF G Springer HOU
OF B Gardner NYY
OF M Haniger SEA
OF A Benintendi BOS

AL Pitchers:
SP J Verlander HOU
SP C Kluber CLE
SP L Severino NYY
SP C Sale BOS
SP G Cole HOU
SP B Snell TBR
SP T Bauer CLE
RP J Diekman TEX
RP J Jimenez DET
RP A Chapman NYY
RP C Kimbrel BOS
RP E Diaz SEA


NL Starters:
C B Posey SFG
1B F Freeman ATL
2B O Albies ATL
SS B Crawford SFG
3B N Arenado COL
LF N Markakis ATL
CF M Kemp LAD
RF B Harper WAS
DH B Belt SFG

NL Reserves:
C JT Realmuto MIA
C F Cervelli PIT
1B P Goldschmidt ARI
1B J Votto CIN
2B S Gennett CIN
SS T Turner WAS
3B T Shaw MIL
3B E Suarez CIN
IF M Muncy LAD
OF L Cain MIL
OF C Yelich MIL
OF B Nimmo NYM
IF-OF C Taylor LAD

NL Pitchers:
SP M Scherzer WAS
SP J deGrom NYM
SP A Nola PHI
SP S Newcomb ATL
SP M Foltynewicz ATL
SP M Mikolas STL
SP J Lester CHI
RP A Ottavino COL
RP J Jeffress MIL
RP J Hader MIL
RP B Hand SDP
RP S Doolittle WAS

[Hollywood42]

My updated ballot a bit later. Quoted is my first ballot from a few weeks ago to see how that compares. Second choice at each slot is listed in parentheses

AL
C- Wilson Ramos (Yan Gomes)
1B- Jose Abreu (Mitch Moreland)
2B- Jose Altuve (Gleyber Torres)
3B- Jose Ramirez (Alex Bregman)
SS- Manny Machado (Eduardo Escobar)
OF- Mike Trout (Aaron Judge)
OF- Mookie Betts (Michael Brantley)
OF- Eddie Rosario (Mitch Haniger)
DH- JD Martinez (Edwin Encarnacion)

NL
C- JT Realmuto (Buster Posey)
1B- Freddie Freeman (Jose Martinez)
2B- Scooter Gennett (Ozzie Albies)
3B- Nolan Arenado (Eugenio Suarez)
SS- Brandon Crawford (literally nobody else anywhere close)
OF- Matt Kemp (Christian Yelich)
OF- Nick Markakis (Charlie Blackmon)
OF- AJ Pollock (David Peralta)

New to my ballot (starters)-
Jose Abreu
Eddie Rosario
JT Realmuto
Nick Markakis
AJ Pollock

New to my ballot (2nd choices)
Yan Gomes
Gleyber Torres
Alex Bregman
Eduardo Escobar
Jose Martinez
Eugenio Suarez
David Peralta

Kicked off my ballot (starters)-
Mitch Moreland
Francisco Cervelli
Bryce Harper
Corey Dickerson

Kicked off my ballot (2nd choice)
Mike Moustakas
Francisco Lindor
Brandon Belt
Kris Bryant
Trea Turner

My official ballot at this point in the year. Likely will change slightly as we get closer to the voting deadline as performances change. 2nd choice at each position is in parentheses for fun

AL
C- Wilson Ramos (Gary Sanchez)
1B- Mitch Moreland (Jose Abreu)
2B- Jose Altuve (Brian Dozier)
3B- Jose Ramirez (Mike Moustakas)
SS- Manny Machado (Francisco Lindor)
OF- Mookie Betts (Aaron Judge)
OF- Mike Trout (Michael Brantley)
OF- Eddie Rosario (Mitch Haniger)
DH- JD Martinez (Edwin Encarnacion)

NL
C- Francisco Cervelli (Buster Posey)
1B- Freddie Freeman (Brandon Belt)
2B- Scooter Gennett (Ozzie Albies)
3B- Nolan Arenado (Kris Bryant)
SS- Brandon Crawford (Trea Turner)
OF- Bryce Harper (Charlie Blackmon)
OF- Matt Kemp (AJ Pollock)
OF- Corey Dickerson (Christian Yelich)

[Hollywood42]

NL voting update-

C
1. Buster Posey, Giants: 686,253
2. Willson Contreras, Cubs: 596,111
3. Kurt Suzuki, Braves: 557,692
4. Yadier Molina, Cardinals: 366,271
5. Yasmani Grandal, Dodgers: 333,549

1B
1. Freddie Freeman, Braves: 1,433,140 votes
2. Anthony Rizzo, Cubs: 566,382
3. Brandon Belt, Giants: 363,361
4. Cody Bellinger, Dodgers: 294,418
5. Joey Votto, Reds: 189,364

2B
1. Ozzie Albies, Braves: 915,736
2. Javier Baez, Cubs: 767,417
3. Scooter Gennett, Reds: 743,979
4. Joe Panik, Giants: 194,634
5. Asdrubal Cabrera, Mets: 173,567

3B
1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 1,124,563
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 677,185
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 395,389
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 228,806
5. Evan Longoria, Giants; 221,100

SS
1. Brandon Crawford, Giants: 1,120,031
2. Dansby Swanson, Braves: 568,400
3. Addison Russell, Cubs: 475,091
4. Trevor Story, Rockies: 315,532
5. Trea Turner, Nationals: 279,071

OF
1. Nick Markakis, Braves: 1,173,653
2. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 1,002,696
3. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 925,697
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 678,831
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 617,151
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 528,943
7. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 447,359
8. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 442,471
9. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 434,943
10. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 364,286
11. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 313,558
12. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 263,903
13. Lorenzo Cain, Brewers: 242,827
14. Andrew McCutchen, Giants: 241,652
15. Matt Adams, Nationals: 237,165


It's absolutely incredible that Realmuto isn't even in the top 5 among NL catchers. He's easily a top 5 catcher in the entire league, and should be running away with this vote. I am loving seeing Freeman, Crawford, and Arenado having a big advantage in the vote right now. They all really deserve it and are pretty easy picks. It's a shame Scooter isn't leading 2Bs, he should be the only one anyone is voting for at that position. The OF is improving a little bit, but Acuna, Inciarte, Schwarber, Zobrist, Herrera, and Adams all need to be off this list

[Hollywood42]

AL update #2

C
1. Wilson Ramos, Rays: 678,159
2. Gary Sanchez, Yankees: 618,899
3. Brian McCann, Astros: 401,336
4. Salvador Perez, Royals: 344,915
5. Yan Gomes, Indians: 200,275

1B
1. Jose Abreu, White Sox: 636,666
2. Mitch Moreland, Red Sox: 472,245
3. Yuli Gurriel, Astros: 368,863
4. Albert Pujols, Angels: 336,724
5. Miguel Cabrera, Tigers: 333,130

2B
1. Jose Altuve, Astros: 1,572,101
2. Gleyber Torres, Yankees: 534,758
3. Dee Gordon, Mariners: 244,488
4. Jason Kipnis, Indians: 156,347
5. Jed Lowrie, A's: 130,479

3B
1. Jose Ramirez, Indians: 893,530
2. Miguel Andujar, Yankees: 509,188
3. Alex Bregman, Astros: 410,412
4. Adrian Beltre, Rangers: 249,080
5. Mike Moustakas, Royals: 231,363

SS
1. Manny Machado, Orioles: 671,133
2. Carlos Correa, Astros: 458,367
3. Francisco Lindor, Indians: 420,674
4. Didi Gregorius, Yankees: 413,135
5. Jean Segura, Mariners: 312,407

OF
1. Mookie Betts, Red Sox: 1,568,417
2. Mike Trout, Angels: 1,323,292
3. Aaron Judge, Yankees: 1,061,370
4. Michael Brantley, Indians: 518,350
5. George Springer, Astros: 511,815
6. Andrew Benintendi, Red Sox: 509,780
7. Brett Gardner, Yankees: 330,970
8. Marwin Gonzalez, Astros: 300,694
9. Mitch Haniger, Mariners: 295,057
10. Josh Reddick, Astros: 278,332
11. Nicholas Castellanos, Tigers: 256,889
12. Eddie Rosario, Twins: 248,451
13. Aaron Hicks, Yankees: 239,594
14. Jackie Bradley Jr., Red Sox: 237,937
15. Ben Gamel, Mariners: 151,097

DH
1. J.D. Martinez, Red Sox: 1,119,263
2. Giancarlo Stanton, Yankees: 478,872
3. Evan Gattis, Astros: 363,362
4. Shohei Ohtani, Angels: 350,579
5. Edwin Encarnacion, Indians: 260,915


LOVE seeing Ramos pass Sanchez. Incredible that Tuve has over a million more votes than any other 2B (not undeserving at all, just pretty amazing). Anduhar's having a nice rookie season, but shouldn't be top 5 IMO. Eddie Rosario is CRIMINALLY low in the OF. I know it'll be pretty difficult for him to win the vote, but man, he honestly deserves to start right now

[hohlernr]

It's a shame Lindor has dropped down to 3rd. He's the best SS in the game, having the best season, has the personality to be the face of baseball and will be coming off the bench. The MLB is just awful at marketing their stars.

[Hollywood42]

Machado's stats are superior just about across the board

It's a shame Lindor has dropped down to 3rd. He's the best SS in the game, having the best season, has the personality to be the face of baseball and will be coming off the bench. The MLB is just awful at marketing their stars.

[hohlernr]

Machado's stats are superior just about across the board

Yah, but not by much and Lindor leads in steals and runs. Combine that with the fact that Machado is a below average defender and Lindor is an elite defender, Lindor is having the superior year imo.

[jstasyk1121]

NL voting update-


OF
1. Nick Markakis, Braves: 1,173,653
2. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 1,002,696
3. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 925,697
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 678,831
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 617,151
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 528,943
7. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 447,359
8. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 442,471
9. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 434,943
10. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 364,286
11. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 313,558
12. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 263,903
13. Lorenzo Cain, Brewers: 242,827
14. Andrew McCutchen, Giants: 241,652
15. Matt Adams, Nationals: 237,165




wasnt involved in the Cain debate that was a couple pages...but seeing him at 13th and me personally think he should also be much closer to starting...he is top 5 for me...

currently among NL OFs Cain ranks:

Runs- 5th
Hits- 7th
Doubles- 9th
HRs- 20th
RBIs- 28th
Stolen Bases- 3rd
Walks- 2nd
Strikeouts-9th fewest among 30 qualified OF
Average- 9th
OBP- 2nd(.001 behind Markakis)
SLG- 16th
OPS- 8th
WAR- 1st-by a mile by the way...3.8 next best is Nimmo at 2.4!

So how can he be considered not close to starting at all?? based on what? i can only guess power related things since his worst ranks are HR/RBI/SLG

he is top 5 in Runs, SB, Walks, OBP, WAR and is on a division leader at the moment...

To me he is top 3 with Markakis and Kemp...

Blackmon and Bryce have combined for -0.3 WAR...like the stat or not...just think about that...Cain is leading the league among OF and these two "stars" are combined worse than replacement level at this point

Pollock? has 150ab...you cant get a spot when you are hurt that much
Inciarte, Jhey, Schwarber, Acuna, Zobrist...all up there due to fans pumping there guys...he is clearly above them all

Dickerson, Yelich, Odubel...gimme Cain over all 3...him and Yelich are close...but i mean ill take the SB, OBP gaps over a couple runs and RBI

so again...why is it crazy to have Cain as a starter in the NL OF? who are all these mystery guys that should clearly be ahead of him??

[Hollywood42]

NL update #3

C
1. Buster Posey, Giants: 1,037,368
2. Willson Contreras, Cubs: 945,347
3. Kurt Suzuki, Braves: 880,707
4. Yadier Molina, Cardinals: 584,054
5. Yasmani Grandal, Dodgers: 539,782

1B
1. Freddie Freeman, Braves: 2,199,904
2. Anthony Rizzo, Cubs: 899,953
3. Brandon Belt, Giants: 571,177
4. Cody Bellinger, Dodgers: 472,164
5. Jose Martinez, Cardinals: 303,551

2B
1. Ozzie Albies, Braves: 1,408,469
2. Javier Baez, Cubs: 1,186,243
3. Scooter Gennett, Reds: 1,166,288
4. Joe Panik, Giants: 335,298
5. Logan Forsythe, Dodgers: 268,236

3B
1. Nolan Arenado, Rockies: 1,706,923
2. Kris Bryant, Cubs: 1,060,467
3. Johan Camargo, Braves: 642,241
4. Eugenio Suarez, Reds: 376,612
5. Justin Turner, Dodgers: 353,693

SS
1. Brandon Crawford, Giants: 1,701,098
2. Dansby Swanson, Braves: 888,077
3. Addison Russell, Cubs: 771,478
4. Trevor Story, Rockies: 555,788
5. Trea Turner, Nationals: 380,331

OF
1. Nick Markakis, Braves: 1,829,276
2. Matt Kemp, Dodgers: 1,498,827
3. Bryce Harper, Nationals: 1,403,335
4. Charlie Blackmon, Rockies: 983,660
5. Ronald Acuna Jr., Braves: 932,989
6. Ender Inciarte, Braves: 828,451
7. Jason Heyward, Cubs: 750,688
8. Kyle Schwarber, Cubs: 706,374
9. Ben Zobrist, Cubs: 684,377
10. Christian Yelich, Brewers: 545,044
11. Corey Dickerson, Pirates: 455,065
12. Lorenzo Cain, Brewers: 422,252
13. Andrew McCutchen, Giants: 412,708
14. Odubel Herrera, Phillies: 374,540
15. Yasiel Puig, Dodgers: 366,277


Not many changes this time around

[SethMurphy]

Braves fans stuffing the ballot boxes all over the place it would seem, looking forward to the AL ballot

[Hollywood42]

AL update #3. Last update before rosters are announced

C
1. Wilson Ramos, Rays: 1,063,708
2. Gary Sanchez, Yankees: 904,678
3. Brian McCann, Astros: 680,351
4. Salvador Perez, Royals: 497,711
5. Yan Gomes, Indians: 345,015

1B
1. Jose Abreu, White Sox: 1,032,748
2. Yuli Gurriel, Astros: 714,361
3. Mitch Moreland, Red Sox: 644,728
4. Albert Pujols, Angels: 516,550
5. Miguel Cabrera, Tigers: 415,891

2B
1. Jose Altuve, Astros: 2,460,967
2. Gleyber Torres, Yankees: 797,817
3. Dee Gordon, Mariners: 395,253
4. Jason Kipnis, Indians: 248,942
5. Dustin Pedroia, Red Sox: 184,661

3B
1. Jose Ramirez, Indians: 1,319,651
2. Miguel Andujar, Yankees: 764,032
3. Alex Bregman, Astros: 718,814
4. Adrian Beltre, Rangers: 422,263
5. Mike Moustakas, Royals: 342,607

SS
1. Manny Machado, Orioles: 960,628
2. Carlos Correa, Astros: 793,087
3. Didi Gregorius, Yankees: 639,630
4. Francisco Lindor, Indians: 619,112
5. Jean Segura, Mariners: 504,985

OF
1. Mookie Betts, Red Sox: 2,337,514
2. Mike Trout, Angels: 1,989,649
3. Aaron Judge, Yankees: 1,557,109
4. George Springer, Astros: 829,579
5. Michael Brantley, Indians: 794,074
6. Andrew Benintendi, Red Sox: 784,969
7. Marwin Gonzalez, Astros: 531,538
8. Brett Gardner, Yankees: 501,175
9. Mitch Haniger, Mariners: 487,150
10. Josh Reddick, Astros: 485,861
11. Eddie Rosario, Twins: 434,243
12. Aaron Hicks, Yankees: 374,794
13. Jackie Bradley Jr., Red Sox: 366,791
14. Nicholas Castellanos, Tigers: 364,392
15. Ben Gamel, Mariners: 257,653

DH
1. J.D. Martinez, Red Sox: 1,675,492
2. Giancarlo Stanton, Yankees: 738,878
3. Evan Gattis, Astros: 659,606
4. Shohei Ohtani, Angels: 452,372
5. Nelson Cruz, Mariners: 424,914

I actually think the starters here are all 100% correct, other than the 3rd OF. I really do think Eddie Rosario deserves to be the 3rd starter behind Trout and Betts, but unfortunately that doesn't look like it's going to happen. Other than that, absolutely no complaints about the starters. Looks like they're actually going to get just about everything right

[texmcpherson]

Quite surprised Ramos (deserving) is ahead of Sanchez.

[jstasyk1121]

Quite surprised Ramos (deserving) is ahead of Sanchez.

this is what i was thinking...it shows how truly awful Sanchez has been...for him to be trailing...while he is a Yankee, popular and they are winning....man...that is crazy...and the opposing Catchers in AL are all underwhelming...not like he is losing to a solid option from Boston or something...Ramos? deserving over Sanchez for sure...hell prob every starting C in AL should be over Sanchez...but still...like you said...im shocked he isnt leading regardless...

[mikecamp99]

I actually think the starters here are all 100% correct, other than the 3rd OF. I really do think Eddie Rosario deserves to be the 3rd starter behind Trout and Betts, but unfortunately that doesn't look like it's going to happen. Other than that, absolutely no complaints about the starters. Looks like they're actually going to get just about everything right

These same type of discussions happen year after year with All-Star votes, specifically in Baseball and Basketball. In some cases the guys with the solid numbers do get in, but it's a popularity contest. Trout, Betts and Judge; three of the biggest names in all of baseball. People want to see them, not Eddie Rosario who, granted is having a beast season so far, nobody outside of Minnesota cares about. There isn't a snowballs chance he can crack the top three with those other names in such large markets.

[88horsepower]

Anthony Rizzo batting under .240 leading Brandon Belt in 1B voting in the NL. Wow.

[marl1220]

Quite surprised Ramos (deserving) is ahead of Sanchez.

Ramos got my vote. He deserves it. Who he plays for should make little difference.

[Hollywood42]

Incredibly surprising, but I also love seeing that

Quite surprised Ramos (deserving) is ahead of Sanchez.

Oh I absolutely get it. There's no way Rosario finishes even top 5 in voting while he plays in Minnesota unless he is on track for a legit MVP type season. I just will always prefer to see the deserving players play in the ASG rather than the most popular, and in my opinion Rosario deserves it over Judge right now. Same reason why I'm loving seeing Ramos over Sanchez right now at catcher

These same type of discussions happen year after year with All-Star votes, specifically in Baseball and Basketball. In some cases the guys with the solid numbers do get in, but it's a popularity contest. Trout, Betts and Judge; three of the biggest names in all of baseball. People want to see them, not Eddie Rosario who, granted is having a beast season so far, nobody outside of Minnesota cares about. There isn't a snowballs chance he can crack the top three with those other names in such large markets.

Should, but it typically does. As I've said in this post, I will always support the more deserving players over the popular players. At the same time, I understand that the way voting is set up creates a glorified popularity contest

Ramos got my vote. He deserves it. Who he plays for should make little difference.

[jstasyk1121]

Ramos got my vote. He deserves it. Who he plays for should make little difference.

not debating that....history has shown that Sanchez would normally be set in as the ASG starter for the next 5-10 yrs unless some other exciting young catcher who produced on a decent team came along...him being power hitting Catcher on the Yankees gives him a huge head start...so it just shows how bad he has been to see that even that edge that is built in for him isnt enough to this point...

just like Harper in the NL...he has been AWFUL this yr...he has home runs...gets some walks...is hitting like .215...does nothing else really at this point...and has 1.5 million votes...he basically gets voted in no matter what at this point...same with Trout...and some others...

Trout could be at .175 right now with 7hr and he would still be starting the ASG..

my post has nothing to do with Ramos not deserving the start....it has to do with it being shocking that he actually has gotten the votes due to the popular Yankee being so bad that people arent voting for him

[PejaD]

Is Ramos getting the push from Nats fans wanting to see him back in DC?

Generally a poor year for 1B and C in the AL

[Brewers3]

There is absolutely zero reason why Aguilar should not be the top reserve first baseman for the NL. I understand if he doesn't start (in my opinion he's having a better season than Freeman) because of how he isn't even listed as a name on the ballot and you have to write him in, and how he plays for the Brewers, but if he doesn't get top reserve it's blasphemy.

[Hollywood42]

There is absolutely zero reason why Aguilar should not be the top reserve first baseman for the NL. I understand if he doesn't start (in my opinion he's having a better season than Freeman) because of how he isn't even listed as a name on the ballot and you have to write him in, and how he plays for the Brewers, but if he doesn't get top reserve it's blasphemy.

Wait... Did you just say Aguilar is having a better season than Freddie?

[Brewers3]

Wait... Did you just say Aguilar is having a better season than Freddie?

I don't care about the 100 less at bats, if only the Brewers realized what they had earlier, or Thames got injured earlier, and he would be smoking Freeman's stats (other than BA of course, but who cares? both are over .300). Whatever he loses on OBP he makes up on SLG. I am definitely biased in thinking he's having a better season, but it is much much much closer than anyone else actually realizes. Aguilar may be the most underappreciated player by the MLB community.

[no10pin]

I don't care about the 100 less at bats, if only the Brewers realized what they had earlier, or Thames got injured earlier, and he would be smoking Freeman's stats (other than BA of course, but who cares? both are over .300). Whatever he loses on OBP he makes up on SLG. I am definitely biased in thinking he's having a better season, but it is much much much closer than anyone else actually realizes. Aguilar may be the most underappreciated player by the MLB community.

100 ABs is pretty significant when you are talking less than half a season. Would you consider a 225 AB difference over a whole season large enough to consider?

[Hollywood42]

Aguilar's absolutely underrated, but it's a pretty easy choice between him and Freeman right now. First off, it's actually about a 150 AB difference. Aguilar's put up crazy numbers despite that, but I think it's very presumptuous to assume he'd be on that same pace if he did have those extra 150 ABs. More HR, hits, RBI, sure, that comes with more at bats. But I suspect the BA would be quite a bit lower than it is. Either way, you're right in that they're both over .300 so they're both great, but there's still a significant 20 point difference between them. Add a slight lead for Freddie in HR, RBI, a significant lead in H, 2B, BB, AVG, OBP, R, WAR, and AB, and it's really not that close. About the only thin Aguilar bests him in is SLG (significantly), K, and OBP (both very slightly). You certainly can argue if Aguilar had more AB the numbers would be different, but the numbers are what they are, and you have to go with the numbers we have. Again, by no means saying Aguilar isn't having an awesome season, because he is. But he's not that close to FF for me at this time

I think a more interesting debate is Aguilar vs. Brandon Belt or Aguilar vs. Jose Martinez. Aguilar is basically Belt with slightly more power, almost all of their numbers are super close. You could also argue for Martinez over Aguilar, they have pretty similar numbers as well

I don't care about the 100 less at bats, if only the Brewers realized what they had earlier, or Thames got injured earlier, and he would be smoking Freeman's stats (other than BA of course, but who cares? both are over .300). Whatever he loses on OBP he makes up on SLG. I am definitely biased in thinking he's having a better season, but it is much much much closer than anyone else actually realizes. Aguilar may be the most underappreciated player by the MLB community.

[Brewers3]

Aguilar's absolutely underrated, but it's a pretty easy choice between him and Freeman right now. First off, it's actually about a 150 AB difference. Aguilar's put up crazy numbers despite that, but I think it's very presumptuous to assume he'd be on that same pace if he did have those extra 150 ABs. More HR, hits, RBI, sure, that comes with more at bats. But I suspect the BA would be quite a bit lower than it is. Either way, you're right in that they're both over .300 so they're both great, but there's still a significant 20 point difference between them. Add a slight lead for Freddie in HR, RBI, a significant lead in H, 2B, BB, AVG, OBP, R, WAR, and AB, and it's really not that close. About the only thin Aguilar bests him in is SLG (significantly), K, and OBP (both very slightly). You certainly can argue if Aguilar had more AB the numbers would be different, but the numbers are what they are, and you have to go with the numbers we have. Again, by no means saying Aguilar isn't having an awesome season, because he is. But he's not that close to FF for me at this time

I think a more interesting debate is Aguilar vs. Brandon Belt or Aguilar vs. Jose Martinez. Aguilar is basically Belt with slightly more power, almost all of their numbers are super close. You could also argue for Martinez over Aguilar, they have pretty similar numbers as well

I appreciate your argument, and I see your points. But I do have to point out one flaw... Aguilar has 3 more HRs right now.

[Hollywood42]

Whoops, you're right on that. I'd argue that 95% of what I said in my last post is still valid though

I appreciate your argument, and I see your points. But I do have to point out one flaw... Aguilar has 3 more HRs right now.

[texmcpherson]

I don't care about the 100 less at bats, if only the Brewers realized what they had earlier, or Thames got injured earlier, and he would be smoking Freeman's stats (other than BA of course, but who cares? both are over .300). Whatever he loses on OBP he makes up on SLG. I am definitely biased in thinking he's having a better season, but it is much much much closer than anyone else actually realizes. Aguilar may be the most underappreciated player by the MLB community.

He must not have met Nolan Arenado or Jose Ramirez.

[Brewers3]

Whoops, you're right on that. I'd argue that 95% of what I said in my last post is still valid though

I can definitely say that your argument is valid. In my mind, I see Aguilar not losing most of this momentum as the season goes on. I guess it is right that you cannot credit what is not done yet, but I am excited to see the rest of the season for Aguilar.

And to the points of arguing between Aguilar and guys like Belt and Martinez, I 100% believe that Aguilar blows Martinez out of the water, and easily edges Belt. He would've been blowing Goldschmidt out too, but he's been heating up at an incredible pace. So it will be interesting to see where they compare at the end of the season. I think what makes me the most happy is we aren't event talking about Rizzo right now :D

[Brewers3]

He must not have met Nolan Arenado or Jose Ramirez.

I am not sure what you mean by this, but if you are talking about under-appreciation then you can take that elsewhere. Both are leading their respective positions in All Star voting. Both by a wide margin (as they should).

[WizardofOz1982]

It's nice to see that you take something that you don't fully understand at face value and absolute.

You mentioned that Chapman's defensive numbers don't match up with "what I say about him". The fact that he's got 11 errors isn't what I said about him. It's what he's got.

Ozzie Smith was usually near the top 10 in errors because he simply got to a lot of balls no one else would have come with in a body's length of touching. Was he bad defensively?

[Wolves4Life]

AL update #3. Last update before rosters are announced

C
1. Wilson Ramos, Rays: 1,063,708
2. Gary Sanchez, Yankees: 904,678
3. Brian McCann, Astros: 680,351
4. Salvador Perez, Royals: 497,711
5. Yan Gomes, Indians: 345,015

1B
1. Jose Abreu, White Sox: 1,032,748
2. Yuli Gurriel, Astros: 714,361
3. Mitch Moreland, Red Sox: 644,728
4. Albert Pujols, Angels: 516,550
5. Miguel Cabrera, Tigers: 415,891

2B
1. Jose Altuve, Astros: 2,460,967
2. Gleyber Torres, Yankees: 797,817
3. Dee Gordon, Mariners: 395,253
4. Jason Kipnis, Indians: 248,942
5. Dustin Pedroia, Red Sox: 184,661

3B
1. Jose Ramirez, Indians: 1,319,651
2. Miguel Andujar, Yankees: 764,032
3. Alex Bregman, Astros: 718,814
4. Adrian Beltre, Rangers: 422,263
5. Mike Moustakas, Royals: 342,607

SS
1. Manny Machado, Orioles: 960,628
2. Carlos Correa, Astros: 793,087
3. Didi Gregorius, Yankees: 639,630
4. Francisco Lindor, Indians: 619,112
5. Jean Segura, Mariners: 504,985

OF
1. Mookie Betts, Red Sox: 2,337,514
2. Mike Trout, Angels: 1,989,649
3. Aaron Judge, Yankees: 1,557,109
4. George Springer, Astros: 829,579
5. Michael Brantley, Indians: 794,074
6. Andrew Benintendi, Red Sox: 784,969
7. Marwin Gonzalez, Astros: 531,538
8. Brett Gardner, Yankees: 501,175
9. Mitch Haniger, Mariners: 487,150
10. Josh Reddick, Astros: 485,861
11. Eddie Rosario, Twins: 434,243
12. Aaron Hicks, Yankees: 374,794
13. Jackie Bradley Jr., Red Sox: 366,791
14. Nicholas Castellanos, Tigers: 364,392
15. Ben Gamel, Mariners: 257,653

DH
1. J.D. Martinez, Red Sox: 1,675,492
2. Giancarlo Stanton, Yankees: 738,878
3. Evan Gattis, Astros: 659,606
4. Shohei Ohtani, Angels: 452,372
5. Nelson Cruz, Mariners: 424,914

I actually think the starters here are all 100% correct, other than the 3rd OF. I really do think Eddie Rosario deserves to be the 3rd starter behind Trout and Betts, but unfortunately that doesn't look like it's going to happen. Other than that, absolutely no complaints about the starters. Looks like they're actually going to get just about everything right

Torres higher than Lowrie. :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh: I know the game is meaningless but even with nothing on the line fans still get it complately wrong.

[jstasyk1121]

Torres higher than Lowrie. :doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh: I know the game is meaningless but even with nothing on the line fans still get it complately wrong.

seems fairly strange to point out Torres when Lowrie isnt even in the top 5...and the other guys in top 5 are far less deserving than torres at this point...Kipnis?? negative war hitting .214 and OBP is sub-.300 ...that guy is HORRENDOUS!!!

Pedroia has 11 at bats!!

Dee Gordon...hitting .280...his OBP is .309...5 walks...OPS is .667... 0.3 WAR

Dont get mad at Torres...in 100+ less at bats he has been light years better then the guys at 3,4,5....Sure Lowrie should be up there...but again...be mad at the cumulative 800,000+ votes given to those 3 awful choices...

[jasonm2121]

Machado being so far ahead of Lindor is a crime. What a joke.

[Brewers3]

Another day at the office for Aguilar... 3/4 and a home run in tonights win.

And he is close to qualifying for SLG pct, which he will be the leader in for the NL.

[texmcpherson]

Another day at the office for Aguilar... 3/4 and a home run in tonights win.

And he is close to qualifying for SLG pct, which he will be the leader in for the NL.

I’m not knocking him, but you have to think... really nobody still knows who he is, whereas Freeman is much more well known. Unfortunately that’s how the ASG voting goes.

[Brewers3]

I’m not knocking him, but you have to think... really nobody still knows who he is, whereas Freeman is much more well known. Unfortunately that’s how the ASG voting goes.

I’m not saying as much for starting. I more than understand why Freeman is. I’m just saying if he isn’t a reserve I will he really disappointed.

[scotthenrichs]

Can't Aguilar be the starting DH? Problem solved?

[Peties Army]

I’m not saying as much for starting. I more than understand why Freeman is. I’m just saying if he isn’t a reserve I will he really disappointed.

I’ll bet you will have a sad night.

Guess it depends who else on Brewers is worthy,I have no clue, but Firsr base in the nl and Martinez’s May have to be cardinals only roster player. He may get on cause of injury but fans arent clamoring for him.

[Brewers3]

I’ll bet you will have a sad night.

Guess it depends who else on Brewers is worthy,I have no clue, but Firsr base in the nl and Martinez’s May have to be cardinals only roster player. He may get on cause of injury but fans arent clamoring for him.

Cain is leading the NL in WAR and Yelich has been have a great year, I would say both deserve a shot at reserves, with Yelich probably missing, while Cain definitely should be one. Hader will also be an All-star.

They better find some random Cardinals pitcher that can squeak in because there is no reason why Aguilar should be held out to get Martinez in there for their guaranteed spot. They are so distant in terms of production and affect on their team, it would be insane to keep Aguilar out for Martinez.

[Peties Army]

Cain is leading the NL in WAR and Yelich has been have a great year, I would say both deserve a shot at reserves, with Yelich probably missing, while Cain definitely should be one. Hader will also be an All-star.

They better find some random Cardinals pitcher that can squeak in because there is no reason why Aguilar should be held out to get Martinez in there for their guaranteed spot. They are so distant in terms of production and affect on their team, it would be insane to keep Aguilar out for Martinez.

Well there is a reason, Cardinals may not have any other deserving players.

Furthermore does SF? Heck Zona may not have any instead of Goldy. Maybe Muncy from LA

I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve but that doesn’t mean he will for sure get in. Just numbers game. Espicslly at first.

[jstasyk1121]

Well there is a reason, Cardinals may not have any other deserving players.

Furthermore does SF? Heck Zona may not have any instead of Goldy. Maybe Muncy from LA

I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve but that doesn’t mean he will for sure get in. Just numbers game. Espicslly at first.

i would say for STL it would be Mikolas at this point...2.69era sub-1.00 whip...8-2 record...he would have to get that spot over Martinez...

I would say Greinke could also snag a spot for ARZ but Goldy has just as good a shot for them...

SF? gotta be B.Crawford for them...

but yea...you never know how it all shakes out when it comes to picking that 1 guy from each team...but i would agree that Aguilar will be a pretty large snub at this point if he doesnt make it

[Zauron]

Well there is a reason, Cardinals may not have any other deserving players.

Furthermore does SF? Heck Zona may not have any instead of Goldy. Maybe Muncy from LA

I’m not saying he doesn’t deserve but that doesn’t mean he will for sure get in. Just numbers game. Espicslly at first.

Posey and Brandon Crawford are leading vote getters right now and Crawford most likely will get the starting nod.

Arizona has Greinke and Corbin possibly

Brewers I'd say Cain and Hader are locks. , Aguilar should be too.

Cardinals, they could send Miles Mikolas, Matt Carpenter, Marcell Ozuna as candidates.

[EricTownsend88]

***UPDATED PROJECTIONS***

American League Starters:
C Wilson Ramos, TB
1B Jose Abreu, CWS
2B Jose Altuve, HOU
3B Jose Ramirez, CLE
SS Francisco Lindor, CLE
OF Mookie Betts, BOS
OF Mike Trout, LAA
OF Eddie Rosario, MIN
DH J.D. Martinez, BOS
SP Justin Verlander, HOU

National League Starters:
C J.T. Realmuto, MIA
1B Freddie Freeman, ATL
2B Ozzie Albies, ATL
3B Nolan Arenado, COL
SS Trevor Story, COL
OF Odubel Herrera, PHI
OF Charlie Blackmon, COL
OF Nick Markakis, ATL
DH Jesus Aguilar, MIL
SP Max Sherzer, WAS

American League Reserves:
C Yan Gomes, CLE
C Evan Gattis, HOU
1B Matt Olson, OAK
2B Yangervis Solarte, TOR
3B Alex Bregman, HOU
SS Andrelton Simmons, LAA
SS Jean Segura, SEA
OF Andrew Benintendi, BOS
OF Michael Brantley, CLE
OF Nick Castellanos, DET
OF Shin-Soo Choo, TEX
UT Manny Machado, BAL
UT Whit Merrifield, KC
P Corey Kluber, CLE
P Luis Severino, NYY
P Gerrit Cole, HOU
P Jose Berrios, MIN
P Chris Sale, BOS
P Edwin Diaz, SEA
P Sean Manaea, OAK
P Craig Kimbrel, BOS
P Blake Snell, TB
P Trevor Bauer, CLE

National League Reserves:
C Buster Posey, SF
C Yadier Molina, STL
1B Joey Votto, CIN
1B Paul Goldschmidt, ARZ
2B Scooter Gennett, CIN
2B Asdrubal Cabrera, NYM
3B Eugenio Suarez, CIN
SS Brandon Crawford, SF
SS Trea Turner, WAS
OF Lorenzo Cain, MIL
OF Matt Kemp, LA
OF Starling Marte, PIT
UT Javier Baez, CHC
UT Jose Martinez, STL
P Jacob DeGrom, MIL
P Josh Hader, MIL
P Aaron Nola, PHI
P Kirby Yates, SD
P Adam Ottavino, COL
P Sean Doolittle, WAS
P Archie Bradley, ARZ
P Mike Foltynewicz, ATL
P Patrick Corbin, ARZ

I'm on board with Jesus as the DH. Didn't realize how good he has been. Before anyone loses their mind about Judge not making the cut - remember ALL teams have to be represented which is why I have guys like Choo and Solarte on the roster.

[dodgerfanjohn]

Any reason you left off Ross Stripling?

And BTW, way too many relief pitchers.

[Hollywood42]

I'd love this, and do believe it'd be the right choice as the 3rd OF, but unfortunately there's no way Rosario finished 3rd in the fan vote. Super deserving, but it just won't happen under the current system

American League Starters:
C Wilson Ramos, TB
1B Jose Abreu, CWS
2B Jose Altuve, HOU
3B Jose Ramirez, CLE
SS Francisco Lindor, CLE
OF Mookie Betts, BOS
OF Mike Trout, LAA
OF Eddie Rosario, MIN
DH J.D. Martinez, BOS
SP Justin Verlander, HOU

[EricTownsend88]

Any reason you left off Ross Stripling?

And BTW, way too many relief pitchers.

He literally just missed the cut - he was the next person on my list but with the every team represented rule he was pushed off. He is having a very good year though!

[cnewby]

Judge not even a reserve. :doh:

And Andujar is missing also...

[EricTownsend88]

Judge not even a reserve. :doh:

And Andujar is missing also...

I suppose you didn't read the sentence at the bottom explaining every team must be represented and because of that although I wanted to get Judge on I did not have the room for him :doh:

[Hollywood42]

Andujar shouldn't even be top 4 at 3B

[VeedonFleece]

P Jacob DeGrom, MIL

I dreamt that this actually happened!

[Hollywood42]

Can't say I'm surprised, but it's absolutely ridiculous that Eddie Rosario didn't get in, even as a reserve

[packman80]

Surprised that Jesus Aguilar did not get a reserve spot

[PejaD]

Snubs so far:
AL:
A. Simmons
E. Rosario
A. Hicks

NL:
T. Turner
M. Carpenter
B. Nimmo
B. Belt

[KhalDrogo]

Bryce Harper LOL

[ksmith31]

Snubs so far:
AL:
A. Simmons
E. Rosario
A. Hicks

NL:
T. Turner
M. Carpenter
B. Nimmo
B. Belt


AL:

N. Castellanos
J. Paxton

[bigtentickets]

Really Jimenez over Castellanos as the Tigers rep is a joke. And no Castellanos on the final vote?!?

[PejaD]

Snubs so far:
AL:
A. Simmons
E. Rosario
A. Hicks

NL:
T. Turner
M. Carpenter
B. Nimmo
B. Belt

Hicks and Nimmo were even snubbed for the final vote ballot...

[Ferg1945]

AL:

N. Castellanos


LIVING!!!!!!! Say it ain't so!!

[lambeauleap87]

Five deserving Indians, that's fun. Awesome to see Bauer get the nod for the fantastic season he's having.

First apparent snubs that I see include Rosario, Aguilar, Jeffress, Snell, Paxton, and Charlie Morton. I'm sure most of them will end up in.

[rman112]

Snubs so far:
AL:
A. Simmons
E. Rosario
A. Hicks

NL:
T. Turner
M. Carpenter
B. Nimmo
B. Belt

Hicks, Carpenter, Nimmo all obvious no's.

Snell is probably 3rd in the CY right now.. but not an All-Star.

[rman112]

Berrios over Rosario is stupid.

[marlinsmaniac20]

Realmuto not starting should be illega

[rman112]

Springer making the team is a joke.

[texmcpherson]

Nado.

[Rabs]

Blake Snell got HOSED. Dude has the 2nd best ERA in all of baseball behind de Grom.

[Zauron]

Springer and Brantley should be replaced with Castellanos and Rosario, and then that frees up 2 pitcher spots since Jimenez and Berrios are no longer on the roster.

So Snell, Paxton/whoever could get added on.

As a Rockies fan, I am absolutely shocked Blackmon made it. He's had an okay year offensively and defense has been hard to stomach. Take him off for Nimmo 100%.

And Belt and Aguilar both deserve, and Turner. Although the NL infield is absolutely stacked.

1B alone you have Freeman, Belt, Aguilar, Votto, Goldy all deserving. You can't take more than 4 1B at most...

I'd replace Posey with Belt. Belt could play OF if needed.

[bwalter1]

The AL is going to win, these rosters do not even look fair. Realmuto and Albies should be starting. Aguilar and Segura should be the final votes. Harper should not even be a reserve, he should be a final vote candidate.

[rngrdanny22]

I just wish there was someone named Jose that played SS in the AL. That would have been epic.

[Rabs]

I just wish there was someone named Jose that played SS in the AL. That would have been epic.

Haha I was thinking that too. 3 out of 4!

[rngrdanny22]

Haha I was thinking that too. 3 out of 4!


They have Berrios too!

[dhcollecting]

Dave Robert's should be booed in LA for taking Blackmon over Muncy!