Shill bidding

[JWBlue]

If a card has multiple consecutive bids by the same eBay member does that mean every time that is shill bidding?

[AnthonyCorona]

I've bid on cards then raised the bid just a few minutes later. I think that would show up as two different bids

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[3124508 on COMC]

Of course not, no.

[shrevecity]

No. There are some bidders who use one touch bidding and others that think you are required to just bid the minimum amount.

A shill really only needs to place one bid to manipulate the final price.

[JWBlue]

How can someone tell whether a card has shill bidding? It is a PWCC card.

[Deathgate]

How can someone tell whether a card has shill bidding? It is a PWCC card.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5C6v6XSLi3U/hqdefault.jpg

[3124508 on COMC]

How can someone tell whether a card has shill bidding? It is a PWCC card.

just snipe it and it won't matter.

[shrevecity]

How can someone tell whether a card has shill bidding? It is a PWCC card.

You really cannot tell 100% anymore on Ebay, they have eliminated many of the tools that used to be very useful. In general you look for things like the item being relisted and the winning bidder of the last sale bidding on it again. Excessive bid retractions can be another big clue.

The best way to fight shill bidders is to decide what you want to pay for the item and bid that and ONLY that amount at the end of the auction.

[JWBlue]

The best way to fight shill bidders is to decide what you want to pay for the item and bid that and ONLY that amount at the end of the auction.

If the most I am willing to pay is $650 and the next legitimate bid is $300 and someone shills it to $550 I lose $250.

[3124508 on COMC]

If the most I am willing to pay is $650 and the next legitimate bid is $300 and someone shills it to $550 I lose $250.

Just stop buying auctions on Ebay then :rolleyes:

[JWBlue]

Just stop buying auctions on Ebay then :rolleyes:

I appreciate the advice. It is just frustrating having to deal with shill bidders without any apparent solution.

The best thing to do is probably to snipe which I already do.

[dictoresno]

If the most I am willing to pay is $650 and the next legitimate bid is $300 and someone shills it to $550 I lose $250.

you won't know if its a shill or not, will you really? could be totally legit. I snipe in the last few seconds. I usually win every auction by overbidding and then letting my final bid settle to just above the next bidders bid. few weeks ago, I bid $76 on a card I know was fully worth it, but wasnt willing to go higher. auction was 15 seconds left sitting at $38. last 5 seconds, I placed my bid. ended up paying $68. I don't consider those final bids as shills, just other people trying to snipe too, but theirs weren't as high as mine....gotta bid smart. Im not upset because I "could've" had it for $38, im happy I got it for under my $76 I was willing to pay.

and you didn't lose $250, you got the card you wanted for $100 less than you were willing to pay for it.

[mhcook]

I appreciate the advice. It is just frustrating having to deal with shill bidders without any apparent solution.

The best thing to do is probably to snipe which I already do.There have been a couple times where I was convinced that I was shilled for a decent amount, so my solution was to refuse to pay for the item. Obviously this doesn't apply to cards I had to have.

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[arashY]

There have been a couple times where I was convinced that I was shilled for a decent amount, so my solution was to refuse to pay for the item. Obviously this doesn't apply to cards I had to have.

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So you entered a bid price that you were willing to pay and then refused to pay even though it was still less than your highest bid? :confused:

[salthill]

If a card has multiple consecutive bids by the same eBay member does that mean every time that is shill bidding?


On its own, no. It them trying to find out what the current top bid is, without exposing their maximum bid yet. PWCC say it’s against their guidelines (they call it string bidding) but it can be totally legitimate.

On the other hand, it could be shilling. For the same reason - trying to find out your max bid, but without going over and accidentally winning. (If you bid $98 and I bid $90, the leading bid will be $91. If I bid a dollar at a time, eventually I’ll bid $98, and the leading bid will be $98, but in your name. I’ll know then that $98 is your max.)

[shrevecity]

On its own, no. It them trying to find out what the current top bid is, without exposing their maximum bid yet. PWCC say it’s against their guidelines (they call it string bidding) but it can be totally legitimate.

On the other hand, it could be shilling. For the same reason - trying to find out your max bid, but without going over and accidentally winning. (If you bid $98 and I bid $90, the leading bid will be $91. If I bid a dollar at a time, eventually I’ll bid $98, and the leading bid will be $98, but in your name. I’ll know then that $98 is your max.)

Why would they not just bid one time with a huge amount, then retract and rebid just under that max they just discovered. To me that can be a more telling sign than string bidding.

[dictoresno]

Why would they not just bid one time with a huge amount, then retract and rebid just under that max they just discovered. To me that can be a more telling sign than string bidding.

bid retractions raise flags and other bidders can see how many retractions you have had and your bidding % with that seller, exposing you as a potential shiller.

[Zahadum]

A few months ago I had someone continue to bid against me 23 times and when they became the winning bidder they retracted the last bid and then under an hour to go in the auction they bid again a specific amount to get the bid to my exact max and because it was under an hour I was not able to retract my bids..

Not sure if it was a friend of the seller or if the card was being sold for the bidder and they upped the price to get them more money. This was the only time this has happened so it is one or the other.

I am not as fan of snipe but seems to be the only way to not deal with garbage like this being that ebay seems to approve of this activity.

Bidder Bid Amount Bid Time
l***n(1069) $35.88 24 Jun 2018 at 4:20:43PM PDT
x***k(543) $35.69 1 Jul 2018 at 1:53:18AM PDT
x***k(543) $32.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:50PM PDT
x***k(543) $30.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:44PM PDT
x***k(543) $28.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:39PM PDT
x***k(543) $26.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:30PM PDT
x***k(543) $24.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:25PM PDT
x***k(543) $23.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:20PM PDT
x***k(543) $22.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:17PM PDT
x***k(543) $21.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:13PM PDT
x***k(543) $20.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:09PM PDT
x***k(543) $19.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:05PM PDT
x***k(543) $18.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:01PM PDT
x***k(543) $17.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:57PM PDT
x***k(543) $16.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:53PM PDT
x***k(543) $15.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:43PM PDT
x***k(543) $14.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:39PM PDT
x***k(543) $13.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:35PM PDT
x***k(543) $12.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:31PM PDT
x***k(543) $11.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:13PM PDT
x***k(543) $10.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:09PM PDT
x***k(543) $9.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:52PM PDT
x***k(543) $8.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:48PM PDT
x***k(543) $7.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:44PM PDT
x***k(543) $6.16 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:40PM PDT
2***o(399) $5.00 24 Jun 2018 at 6:01:02PM PDT
2***o(399) $4.00 24 Jun 2018 at 6:00:58PM PDT
2***o(399) $3.00 24 Jun 2018 at 6:00:55PM PDT
Starting Price $1.00 24 Jun 2018 at 3:45:03PM PDT

Bid retraction and cancellation history
Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
x***k(543)
Retracted:$37.77
Bid:24 Jun 2018 at 8:16:52PM PDT
Retracted:24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:28PM PDT

[shrevecity]

A few months ago I had someone continue to bid against me 23 times and when they became the winning bidder they retracted the last bid and then under an hour to go in the auction they bid again a specific amount to get the bid to my exact max and because it was under an hour I was not able to retract my bids..

Not sure if it was a friend of the seller or if the card was being sold for the bidder and they upped the price to get them more money. This was the only time this has happened so it is one or the other.

I am not as fan of snipe but seems to be the only way to not deal with garbage like this being that ebay seems to approve of this activity.

Bidder Bid Amount Bid Time
l***n(1069) $35.88 24 Jun 2018 at 4:20:43PM PDT
x***k(543) $35.69 1 Jul 2018 at 1:53:18AM PDT
x***k(543) $32.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:50PM PDT
x***k(543) $30.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:44PM PDT
x***k(543) $28.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:39PM PDT
x***k(543) $26.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:30PM PDT
x***k(543) $24.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:25PM PDT
x***k(543) $23.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:20PM PDT
x***k(543) $22.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:17PM PDT
x***k(543) $21.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:13PM PDT
x***k(543) $20.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:09PM PDT
x***k(543) $19.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:05PM PDT
x***k(543) $18.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:19:01PM PDT
x***k(543) $17.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:57PM PDT
x***k(543) $16.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:53PM PDT
x***k(543) $15.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:43PM PDT
x***k(543) $14.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:39PM PDT
x***k(543) $13.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:35PM PDT
x***k(543) $12.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:31PM PDT
x***k(543) $11.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:13PM PDT
x***k(543) $10.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:18:09PM PDT
x***k(543) $9.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:52PM PDT
x***k(543) $8.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:48PM PDT
x***k(543) $7.77 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:44PM PDT
x***k(543) $6.16 24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:40PM PDT
2***o(399) $5.00 24 Jun 2018 at 6:01:02PM PDT
2***o(399) $4.00 24 Jun 2018 at 6:00:58PM PDT
2***o(399) $3.00 24 Jun 2018 at 6:00:55PM PDT
Starting Price $1.00 24 Jun 2018 at 3:45:03PM PDT

Bid retraction and cancellation history
Bidder Action Date of Bid and Retraction
x***k(543)
Retracted:$37.77
Bid:24 Jun 2018 at 8:16:52PM PDT
Retracted:24 Jun 2018 at 8:17:28PM PDT

The retraction and rebid are the dead giveaways in this case.

[salthill]

That’s the most obvious instance of shill bidding I’ve ever seen. And it cost you a bunch. You’d have won a legitimate auction for $5.25, not $37.

[shrevecity]

That’s the most obvious instance of shill bidding I’ve ever seen. And it cost you a bunch. You’d have won a legitimate auction for $5.25, not $37.

Its possible others had snipes set that were kicked out due to the shiller. So no guarantee he would have gotten it for that.

[salthill]

Its possible others had snipes set that were kicked out due to the shiller. So no guarantee he would have gotten it for that.



True. And the shill bids may have put off regular bidders too. (The shill bids came in immediately.)

[Zahadum]

Yea thought there was something fishy about the whole thing. I asked some people at the local card shop their thoughts and all of them said sole purpose to manipulate the final price. After some more input I left neutral feedback as even though remote the seller might not e part of it.

So after I left the neutral feedback got a message from the seller as to why they did not get positive. So I replied exactly what I thought on the situation and this only happened when I bid on their auction. Then got the normal they are x amount of years old and have been doing this for x amount of years, had no idea what shilling was and had to look it up, they were mad , if I did not want the card they would have refunded me and that they are blocking me from bidding on their auctions….

So to me looks they knew and were part of the scam.

I now changed my bidding practices to avoid garbage like this in the future.

[salthill]

Yea thought there was something fishy about the whole thing. I asked some people at the local card shop their thoughts and all of them said sole purpose to manipulate the final price. After some more input I left neutral feedback as even though remote the seller might not e part of it.

So after I left the neutral feedback got a message from the seller as to why they did not get positive. So I replied exactly what I thought on the situation and this only happened when I bid on their auction. Then got the normal they are x amount of years old and have been doing this for x amount of years, had no idea what shilling was and had to look it up, they were mad , if I did not want the card they would have refunded me and that they are blocking me from bidding on their auctions….

So to me looks they knew and were part of the scam.

I now changed my bidding practices to avoid garbage like this in the future.


Utter bollocks. I’m surprised you didn’t also get the “I sell XX,000 dollars of cards a year” line too for good measure.