Is Adrian Peterson a top 5 RB of all time?

[MFaulkCollector]

i think there is a general consensus for the top 3... in whatever order you choose..... barry sanders, walter payton, jim brown

after that.... i think you can go in a lot of different directions. if you value longevity and production, emmitt smith is a slam dunk..... if you value dynamic versatility then tomlinson and faulk are great choices. if you like the workhorse monster then peterson is a great choice

as a 4 time first team all pro, nfl mvp, 3 time rushing champion, 2000 yard season, 100 rushing td's, 4.7 yards per carry average.. i think peterson has done enough to crack that top 5

mine would be

1. jim brown
2. barry sanders
3. walter payton
4. adrian peterson
5. emmitt smith

6. eric dickerson
7. marshall faulk
8. ladainian tomlinson/oj simpson

[deemsterz33]

Emmitt Smith > Peterson

[hagausaf]

Easily top 5 all time RB

[Bassplayah101]

It depends.. is he standing over me holding a switch while I write down my vote?

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[MFaulkCollector]

Emmitt Smith > Peterson

i can certainly see the argument there....... but in their prime if i had to pick one of them i'd pick peterson. emmitt's ability to have a huge peak and then play into his 30's was amazing

emmitt at 4 is fine with me... i just prefer peterson

[twisty571]

i think there is a general consensus for the top 3... in whatever order you choose..... barry sanders, walter payton, jim brown

after that.... i think you can go in a lot of different directions. if you value longevity and production, emmitt smith is a slam dunk..... if you value dynamic versatility then tomlinson and faulk are great choices. if you like the workhorse monster then peterson is a great choice

as a 4 time first team all pro, nfl mvp, 3 time rushing champion, 2000 yard season, 100 rushing td's, 4.7 yards per carry average.. i think peterson has done enough to crack that top 5

mine would be

1. jim brown
2. barry sanders
3. walter payton
4. adrian peterson
5. emmitt smith

6. eric dickerson
7. marshall faulk
8. ladainian tomlinson/oj simpson

I agree with this list. Who is your #10?

[AnthonyCorona]

Frank Gore better

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[MFaulkCollector]

It depends.. is he standing over me holding a switch while I write down my vote?

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let's assume no for the sake of this :)!

[CC_123]

Frank Gore better

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LOL. Good one.

[Hollywood42]

I don't know/keep up on football from before my time to say exactly where he is among the all time ranks, but he's definitely high up there. Glad to see him having a bit of success this year again. What he did for Minnesota was amazing to watch growing up

[Bassplayah101]

let's assume no for the sake of this :)!Lolol..

In all honesty, I think hes a little too inconsistent for a HOF nod.. at least the first couple ballots.
Never know how people will feel in 15 years.


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[tha101st]

I would have Tomblinson ahead of AP.

[CubKings]

AD is a beast. Love seeing him still be pretty damn good so far this year. Hope he can keep it up for a few more seasons.

He's my number 2 favorite of all time behind only Randy Moss.

[Bassplayah101]

I would have Tomblinson ahead of AP.Ditto

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[MFaulkCollector]

I would have Tomblinson ahead of AP.

Yea 150 plus tds is an amazing feat. If taking a dual threat guy I’d prefer Faulk over Tomlinson but it’s hard to argue with either

[asujbl]

i think there is a general consensus for the top 3... in whatever order you choose..... barry sanders, walter payton, jim brown

after that.... i think you can go in a lot of different directions. if you value longevity and production, emmitt smith is a slam dunk..... if you value dynamic versatility then tomlinson and faulk are great choices. if you like the workhorse monster then peterson is a great choice

as a 4 time first team all pro, nfl mvp, 3 time rushing champion, 2000 yard season, 100 rushing td's, 4.7 yards per carry average.. i think peterson has done enough to crack that top 5

mine would be

1. jim brown
2. barry sanders
3. walter payton
4. adrian peterson
5. emmitt smith

6. eric dickerson
7. marshall faulk
8. ladainian tomlinson/oj simpson

I’d say your Top 5 is right

[tha101st]

Yea 150 plus tds is an amazing feat. If taking a dual threat guy I’d prefer Faulk over Tomlinson but it’s hard to argue with eitherMy list
1.Sanders
2.Payton
3.Faulk
4.Brown
5.Smith
6.Tomblinson
7.Dickerson
8.AP
9.Dorsett
10.Martin

[88horsepower]

I would have Tomblinson ahead of AP.

Agreed.

[corndog]

Emmitt had it easy with 10 foot wide holes to start with.

Barry over everybody.

[Scottish Punk]

I like the list, the top three is good. I like Faulk in the top 5, best combination of runner and receiver ever. Rounding out my top 5 would be Earl Campbell. Nobody had a better combination of speed and power outside of Jim Brown.

[JWBlue]

Emmitt had it easy with 10 foot wide holes to start with.

Barry over everybody.

THIS AND THIS.

[JWBlue]

Tony Dorsett most underrated.

Dickerson should be higher on a lot of lists.

[tennelson55]

AP ran with the box full majority of the time in MIN. He still managed to create holes in teams knowing they were going to run it. That’s impressive, especially when the QB in front of you has no idea what’s going on - Viking QB’s
AP has my vote and is an amazing back.

[Lothar52]

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that with Smith's line ole Peterson would have been a better faster RB. But that's just my mind. However Barry Sanders was better then all of them without a line.... Barry Sanders is the best RB that has or EVER...WILL...LIVE. The sun will go Super Nova and Barry Sanders will never have been eclipsed.

[Zauron]

Lolol..

In all honesty, I think hes a little too inconsistent for a HOF nod.. at least the first couple ballots.
Never know how people will feel in 15 years.


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Are you telling me a guy in the top 20 all time of TD's isn't a lock for a HOF? The only name higher who isn't is Shaun Alexander. AD will finish his career in the top 10 in rushing yards and top 20 all time TD's, and most likely a career yards per carry over 4.5.

I don't understand how he was inconsistent, every year he wasn't hurt he got over 1,000 yards and 10 TD's(7 seasons).

[marinocollector]

There is NO DOUBT in my mind that with Smith's line ole Peterson would have been a better faster RB. But that's just my mind. However Barry Sanders was better then all of them without a line.... Barry Sanders is the best RB that has or EVER...WILL...LIVE. The sun will go Super Nova and Barry Sanders will never have been eclipsed.

Barry still hasn’t beat out Jim Brown. Let alone Emmitt.

Just look where Dallas was at the start of 1993.

And where they ended up.

All this talk about Emmitt line is total BS. A great back makes a great line. Emmitt would hit the holes instead of dance like Barry. Barry was like a home run hitter. Swings and misses a lot. Which is why his own coaching staff wouldn’t have him on the field in the red zone. Emmitt would smash the line and trust his blockers. He even destroyed teams with broke bones in the playoffs.

It’s amazing how YouTube made someone great.

[purejd86p]

Barry still hasn’t beat out Jim Brown. Let alone Emmitt.

Just look where Dallas was at the start of 1993.

And where they ended up.

All this talk about Emmitt line is total BS. A great back makes a great line. Emmitt would hit the holes instead of dance like Barry. Barry was like a home run hitter. Swings and misses a lot. Which is why his own coaching staff wouldn’t have him on the field in the red zone. Emmitt would smash the line and trust his blockers. He even destroyed teams with broke bones in the playoffs.

It’s amazing how YouTube made someone great.

You think YouTube made Barry Sanders great??

[Siberian13]

Barry still hasn’t beat out Jim Brown. Let alone Emmitt.

Just look where Dallas was at the start of 1993.

And where they ended up.

All this talk about Emmitt line is total BS. A great back makes a great line. Emmitt would hit the holes instead of dance like Barry. Barry was like a home run hitter. Swings and misses a lot. Which is why his own coaching staff wouldn’t have him on the field in the red zone. Emmitt would smash the line and trust his blockers. He even destroyed teams with broke bones in the playoffs.

It’s amazing how YouTube made someone great.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnevenBlackandwhiteDutchshepherddog-small.gif

[purejd86p]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnevenBlackandwhiteDutchshepherddog-small.gif

He's smoking the lettuce!

[no10pin]

In all honesty, I think hes a little too inconsistent for a HOF nod.. at least the first couple ballots.
Never know how people will feel in 15 years.


I thought there would definitely be a lot debate over him being a top 5 back, but are you seriously saying Peterson is not a HOFer? I didn't think that was even in question at this point.

[88horsepower]

I thought there would definitely be a lot debate over him being a top 5 back, but are you seriously saying Peterson is not a HOFer? I didn't think that was even in question at this point.

Unless they hold the CPS report against him, he’s getting in right away.

[ninjacookies]

I'd put him in over LT. To me, LT was the perfect example of a system RB, just like Emmitt. Amassed a giant amount of TD's courtesy of short playing fields.

LT was great, but AP was sheer dominance and carved out his own legacy despite being trapped behind a questionable series of qb's. Much like Barry.

AP is the modern day Walter in my eyes. Didn't have the longevity of some other backs, but his peak was tough to match. Quality over quantity.

[jr24ai3]

How many people here actually saw Jim brown play? I was born in 82 so I really can't comment on Payton other than highlights. I only base my list on players I've seen and the best was Barry Sanders. And a second for me is AP. I live his style of play.

[CC_123]

AP is 100% a top 5 HB of All Time.

12,392 yards (and counting)
102 TD's (and counting)
91.8 YPG
4.7 YPC
Seven 1,000+ yard seasons
Eight 10+ TD seasons
NFL Rookie of the Year
NFL Offensive Player of the Year
NFL MVP
2x Bert Bell Award winner
4x 1st Team All Pro
3x 2nd Team All Pro
7x Pro Bowl
3x Rushing Leader
2x Rushing TD Leader
NFL Single Game Rushing Record Holder

He's a 1st Ballot HOFer without a doubt, at least statistically. We will see if the voters hold him out for a few years because of his off the field issues, however.

[MFaulkCollector]

AP is 100% a top 5 HB of All Time.

12,392 yards (and counting)
102 TD's (and counting)
91.8 YPG
4.7 YPC
Seven 1,000+ yard seasons
Eight 10+ TD seasons
NFL Rookie of the Year
NFL Offensive Player of the Year
NFL MVP
2x Bert Bell Award winner
4x 1st Team All Pro
3x 2nd Team All Pro
7x Pro Bowl
3x Rushing Leader
2x Rushing TD Leader
NFL Single Game Rushing Record Holder

He's a 1st Ballot HOFer without a doubt, at least statistically. We will see if the voters hold him out for a few years because of his off the field issues, however.

he doesn't seem like a douche bag.... in terms of acting a fool in interviews or acting unappreciative of what he has been able to do. he seems like a genuinely decent guy and i have a lot of respect for how he conducts himself..... the switch; eh, certainly not a high point but family lives differ from place to place; not everyone runs the perfect politically correct life and turns their kids to adderall or vyvanse at every turn.... if his parents used the switch and he decided to do the same; i think that is forgivable (just my opinion). i suspect it won't be held against him enough to matter when the vote happens

[MFaulkCollector]

Barry still hasn’t beat out Jim Brown. Let alone Emmitt.

Just look where Dallas was at the start of 1993.

And where they ended up.

All this talk about Emmitt line is total BS. A great back makes a great line. Emmitt would hit the holes instead of dance like Barry. Barry was like a home run hitter. Swings and misses a lot. Which is why his own coaching staff wouldn’t have him on the field in the red zone. Emmitt would smash the line and trust his blockers. He even destroyed teams with broke bones in the playoffs.

It’s amazing how YouTube made someone great.

oh lord...... you really didn't just type this i hope, haha

emmitt..... i think emmitt is a top 5 back of all time..... but to suggest his success was not significantly elevated by a hall of fame qb, hall of fame receiver, hall of fame linemen, all pro and annual pro bowl tight end......... it's a miscalculation.

you couldn't dare stack the box on the 90s cowboys..... in no way, shape, or form could you defend emmitt like teams were able to defend peterson or barry

i agree barry could be his own worst enemy at times... but would he have that same "i have to hit a home run on every play" mentality if he played for another organization? maybe, maybe not

and the things peterson achieved as an old school I formation back in the modern nfl is nothing short of amazing. he was a team's offense for almost a decade, that's insanity considering the direction of the nfl post 2000

situations are situations.... i wouldn't hold that against someone but surroundings do matter to a certain extent. i'm sure emmitt would have been a great back on many teams.... but do we really think he replicates peterson in the same situation? based on his size, speed, style of running.... i personally don't think so

[ninjacookies]

oh lord...... you really didn't just type this i hope, haha

emmitt..... i think emmitt is a top 5 back of all time..... but to suggest his success was not significantly elevated by a hall of fame qb, hall of fame receiver, hall of fame linemen, all pro and annual pro bowl tight end......... it's a miscalculation.

you couldn't dare stack the box on the 90s cowboys..... in no way, shape, or form could you defend emmitt like teams were able to defend peterson or barry

i agree barry could be his own worst enemy at times... but would he have that same "i have to hit a home run on every play" mentality if he played for another organization? maybe, maybe not

and the things peterson achieved as an old school I formation back in the modern nfl is nothing short of amazing. he was a team's offense for almost a decade, that's insanity considering the direction of the nfl post 2000

situations are situations.... i wouldn't hold that against someone but surroundings do matter to a certain extent. i'm sure emmitt would have been a great back on many teams.... but do we really think he replicates peterson in the same situation? based on his size, speed, style of running.... i personally don't think so

Emmitt didn't run over opponents, wasn't ridiculously shifty, and lacked top end breakaway speed. But he was a very smart running back and knew how to exercise patience to exploit mismatches and creases. Some of the holes he was allowed to run thru though...

He was exceptional in pass protection though. Something that has been a foreign concept in AP's career.

But he played behind one of the; if not the greatest O line in history.

AP was just physically gifted. Almost unfairly so. He had the moves, size, and speed to take the top off a defense any given play. He could run around opponents or run thru them.

I don't think we'll see another AP for awhile, if ever. Especially with bell cow backs being phased out.

[Skipscards]

Tony Dorsett most underrated.

Dickerson should be higher on a lot of lists.

Totally this. ^^^^

My list would be:

1. Jim Brown
2. Walter Payton
3. Emmitt Smith
4. Barry Sanders
5. Tony Dorsett

6-10 would probably be 5 of these guys: Dickerson, OJ, Fred Talyor, AP, Faulk, and LT. And AP has time to climb.

The best RB I ever saw was Bo Jackson. I am convinced had he had a full career, he would have walked away as the greatest ever.

[MFaulkCollector]

Totally this. ^^^^

My list would be:

1. Jim Brown
2. Walter Payton
3. Emmitt Smith
4. Barry Sanders
5. Tony Dorsett

6-10 would probably be 5 of these guys: Dickerson, OJ, Fred Talyor, AP, Faulk, and LT. And AP has time to climb.

The best RB I ever saw was Bo Jackson. I am convinced had he had a full career, he would have walked away as the greatest ever.

although i can appreciate most viewpoints........ multiple people have made mention to how under-appreciated tony dorsett was/is?

in a full career the guy was a first team all pro just once... made just 4 pro bowls... never led the league in yards, never led the league in td's, never led the league in yards from scrimmage........ he literally has zero black ink for his whole career........ brown, barry, dickerson, emmitt, peterson, tomlinson, faulk...... we are talking 3,4,5,6,8 time first team all pro, league mvps, guys with endless black ink

earl campbell, oj simpson, gale sayers, even thurman thomas..... i could be a buyer.....but dorsett, no way. in fact, i would say he is among the most over-rated rb in history

[CC71]

he's in my top 7, not top 5

1. Jim Brown
2. Barry Sanders
3. Walter Payton
4. Marshall Faulk
5. Ladanian Tomlinson
6. Emmitt Smith
7. Adrian Peterson

8. Oj Simpson
9. Franco Harris
10 Eric Dickerson

[Ray27Ray52]

Peterson is nowhere near my top 5 though I wouldn't hesitate to put him in my top 10.

1. Jim Brown
2. Barry Sanders
3. Walter Payton
4. Ladainian Tomlinson
5. Marshall Faulk/ Emmitt Smith

I'd put Marcus Allen, Earl Campbell, and Eric Dickerson above AP as well.

[49erRCCollector]

Not sure about top 5. But top 10, yes.

[Ray27Ray52]

I'd put him in over LT. To me, LT was the perfect example of a system RB, just like Emmitt. Amassed a giant amount of TD's courtesy of short playing fields.

LT was great, but AP was sheer dominance and carved out his own legacy despite being trapped behind a questionable series of qb's. Much like Barry.

AP is the modern day Walter in my eyes. Didn't have the longevity of some other backs, but his peak was tough to match. Quality over quantity.

I really couldn't disagree with you more here.

LT was the ultimate all purpose back. Did he vulture a ton of goal line TD's? Yeah, of course. But the man could do it all and he could do it just as well as anyone. For at least 5-7 years LT was the best player on the field no matter the opponent.

[Siberian13]

Jim Brown was the man but he played against less talented guys. Not his fault though.

5.0 for Barry and 4.8 for AP. I like those numbers. Most of the others listed are 4.1 to 4.4

[prospectorgems]

I was shocked to come in here and not find Jerome Bettis on anyone's list. How can he be completely ignored?

[Skipscards]

although i can appreciate most viewpoints........ multiple people have made mention to how under-appreciated tony dorsett was/is?

in a full career the guy was a first team all pro just once... made just 4 pro bowls... never led the league in yards, never led the league in td's, never led the league in yards from scrimmage........ he literally has zero black ink for his whole career........ brown, barry, dickerson, emmitt, peterson, tomlinson, faulk...... we are talking 3,4,5,6,8 time first team all pro, league mvps, guys with endless black ink

earl campbell, oj simpson, gale sayers, even thurman thomas..... i could be a buyer.....but dorsett, no way. in fact, i would say he is among the most over-rated rb in history

First of all All-Pro is a bit random because the designation has been handed out by multiple press agencies throughout the years. TD was named 1st team or 2nd team All-Pro 14 times. Plus he was a contemporary of Walter Payton. So he was 2nd to Walter a lot. In fact, when he retired he was 2nd to Payton in rushing.

Additionally, upon retirement, Dorsett finished 6th all-time in TDs and he was 8th in yards/game. He still holds the longest run from scrimmage in NFL history. He was also one of the best post season runners of all-time with a higher y/a than Walter, Brown, Emmitt, Barry, etc.

I saw him play and just like you knew Barry Sanders could score on any play, that was Dorsett.

The beauty of a debate like this is the subjectivity.

[Grid]

I always enjoyed the Jim Brown VS Walter Payton debate. But who in their right mind would put Barry above Sweetness?

Payton: 16,726 yards 110 TDs, 492 rec 4,538 yards 15 TDs, 4,330 touches 21,264 yards 125 TDs

Sanders: 15,269 yards 99 TDs, 352 rec 2,921 yards 10 TDs, 3,414 touches 18,190 yards 109 TDs

That is not even looking at Walter's throwing 8 TD's or his years of kickoff duties. The man retired with 8 NFL All Time Best records. Barry, not so much.

Now let's look at their Playoff stats! Unfair that Barry only won 1 game? I guess he couldn't carry his team like Payton.

Now, go back to the AP debate!

[CC71]

I always enjoyed the Jim Brown VS Walter Payton debate. But who in their right mind would put Barry above Sweetness?

Payton: 16,726 yards 110 TDs, 492 rec 4,538 yards 15 TDs, 4,330 touches 21,264 yards 125 TDs

Sanders: 15,269 yards 99 TDs, 352 rec 2,921 yards 10 TDs, 3,414 touches 18,190 yards 109 TDs

That is not even looking at Walter's throwing 8 TD's or his years of kickoff duties. The man retired with 8 NFL All Time Best records. Barry, not so much.

Now let's look at their Playoff stats! Unfair that Barry only won 1 game? I guess he couldn't carry his team like Payton.

Now, go back to the AP debate!

barry could've played another 5 years and shattered payton's record. barry could've been the only running back with 20k rushing yards. it's crazy that he averaged 1500 yards rushing per season for his career. nobody is even close to that

[Zauron]

I was shocked to come in here and not find Jerome Bettis on anyone's list. How can he be completely ignored?

Because he is nowhere near a top 5 RB of all time

First of all All-Pro is a bit random because the designation has been handed out by multiple press agencies throughout the years. TD was named 1st team or 2nd team All-Pro 14 times. Plus he was a contemporary of Walter Payton. So he was 2nd to Walter a lot. In fact, when he retired he was 2nd to Payton in rushing.

Additionally, upon retirement, Dorsett finished 6th all-time in TDs and he was 8th in yards/game. He still holds the longest run from scrimmage in NFL history. He was also one of the best post season runners of all-time with a higher y/a than Walter, Brown, Emmitt, Barry, etc.

I saw him play and just like you knew Barry Sanders could score on any play, that was Dorsett.

The beauty of a debate like this is the subjectivity.

Dorsett is good, but you are bringing up a lot of pointless data. Longest play? Who cares. At time of retirement, Frank Gore is going to be top 5 all time rushing yards. Is he a top back of all time? No.

I always enjoyed the Jim Brown VS Walter Payton debate. But who in their right mind would put Barry above Sweetness?

Payton: 16,726 yards 110 TDs, 492 rec 4,538 yards 15 TDs, 4,330 touches 21,264 yards 125 TDs

Sanders: 15,269 yards 99 TDs, 352 rec 2,921 yards 10 TDs, 3,414 touches 18,190 yards 109 TDs

That is not even looking at Walter's throwing 8 TD's or his years of kickoff duties. The man retired with 8 NFL All Time Best records. Barry, not so much.

Now let's look at their Playoff stats! Unfair that Barry only won 1 game? I guess he couldn't carry his team like Payton.

Now, go back to the AP debate!

Payton didn't carry the Bears in the playoffs though...5 of his 9 games he was held to under 3.5 ypc. Topped 100 yards once, and 2 TD's.

[starfox]

he doesn't seem like a douche bag.... in terms of acting a fool in interviews or acting unappreciative of what he has been able to do. he seems like a genuinely decent guy and i have a lot of respect for how he conducts himself..... the switch; eh, certainly not a high point but family lives differ from place to place; not everyone runs the perfect politically correct life and turns their kids to adderall or vyvanse at every turn.... if his parents used the switch and he decided to do the same; i think that is forgivable (just my opinion). i suspect it won't be held against him enough to matter when the vote happensNothing wrong with using a switch (or belt). I just don't think it should be used everytime. It's either use the belt (or switch), or hear about the cops or some person in the streets doing it for you.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[jswest18]

I always enjoyed the Jim Brown VS Walter Payton debate. But who in their right mind would put Barry above Sweetness?

Payton: 16,726 yards 110 TDs, 492 rec 4,538 yards 15 TDs, 4,330 touches 21,264 yards 125 TDs

Sanders: 15,269 yards 99 TDs, 352 rec 2,921 yards 10 TDs, 3,414 touches 18,190 yards 109 TDs

That is not even looking at Walter's throwing 8 TD's or his years of kickoff duties. The man retired with 8 NFL All Time Best records. Barry, not so much.

Now let's look at their Playoff stats! Unfair that Barry only won 1 game? I guess he couldn't carry his team like Payton.

Now, go back to the AP debate!

I know there's something to be said about longevity and whether Barry could have maintained his productivity if he would have stayed in the league but Payton's stats are better only in the whole. If you look at yards per touch Payton is at 4.91 while Barry is at 5.3. If he hadn't retired and had reached the same amount of touches as Payton (again, assuming he maintained the same level of production which I understand is a lot to assume) then he would have finished with over 23000 yards from scrimmage. I would guess the TDs would have been at or better than Payton's as well given he was only 16 behind.

[Skipscards]

Because he is nowhere near a top 5 RB of all time



Dorsett is good, but you are bringing up a lot of pointless data. Longest play? Who cares. At time of retirement, Frank Gore is going to be top 5 all time rushing yards. Is he a top back of all time? No.



Payton didn't carry the Bears in the playoffs though...5 of his 9 games he was held to under 3.5 ypc. Topped 100 yards once, and 2 TD's.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/apgJ4bDPJp5NC/200.gif

The point was to illustrate his being able to score from anywhere.

[Siberian13]

I always enjoyed the Jim Brown VS Walter Payton debate. But who in their right mind would put Barry above Sweetness?

Payton: 16,726 yards 110 TDs, 492 rec 4,538 yards 15 TDs, 4,330 touches 21,264 yards 125 TDs

Sanders: 15,269 yards 99 TDs, 352 rec 2,921 yards 10 TDs, 3,414 touches 18,190 yards 109 TDs

That is not even looking at Walter's throwing 8 TD's or his years of kickoff duties. The man retired with 8 NFL All Time Best records. Barry, not so much.

Now let's look at their Playoff stats! Unfair that Barry only won 1 game? I guess he couldn't carry his team like Payton.

Now, go back to the AP debate!

Walter carried that bears defense for sure.

[Grid]

barry could've played another 5 years and shattered payton's record. barry could've been the only running back with 20k rushing yards. it's crazy that he averaged 1500 yards rushing per season for his career. nobody is even close to that

"Could have" and "did" are two very different things. Barry could have and Walter did.

[Grid]

Walter carried that bears defense for sure.

You do know "That Defense" was the 85 team right? Walter played in the post season in 1977, 1979, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987 and then retired.

[Gustomania]

Great question, there really is sooo many great RB's over the years but I think he is a top 5 back overall taking into consideration how much time he has lost....a strong year this year and I think he solidifies that top 5 spot.

Brown
Payton
Sanders
AP
Campbell

Emmitt, Dorsett, Dickerson, Tomlinson, Faulk....

[Ray27Ray52]

Barry didn't care about records. This isn't conjecture, the man said it himself. Even when it was nearly a foregone conclusion that he could have broken nearly all of them.

[Siberian13]

You do know "That Defense" was the 85 team right? Walter played in the post season in 1977, 1979, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987 and then retired.

The only playoffs people care about are the Super Bowls :)

[Grid]

The only playoffs people care about are the Super Bowls :)

And Walter won one of those Super Bowl things. Barry? Umm no.

That 1985 season Payton rushed for nearly 1600 yards, over 2,000 yards combined rushing/receiving, had a total of 12 TD's and averaged almost 100 yards per game. Looks like the Defense carried Payton up and down the field.

[Siberian13]

And Walter won one of those Super Bowl things. Barry? Umm no.

That 1985 season Payton rushed for nearly 1600 yards, over 2,000 yards combined rushing/receiving, had a total of 12 TD's and averaged almost 100 yards per game. Looks like the Defense carried Payton up and down the field.

Yes they won because of Walter that year :rolleyes:. He had all those same nice stats in the other years you mentioned. How'd they do?

How many HOFers on that 85 Bears team and How many HOFers for Barry? I honestly don't know but I assume it's a close one :)

No one is saying Walter or Barry aren't amazing players but they don't get to choose who they play with.

[Ray27Ray52]

Yes they won because of Walter that year :rolleyes:. He had all those same nice stats in the other years you mentioned. How'd they do?

How many HOFers on that 85 Bears team and How many HOFers for Barry? I honestly don't know but I assume it's a close one :)

You are attempting to debate a Bears fan about Walter Payton brother. Compound that by countering with a Lions player. It's an exercise in futility. Be like Elsa and just let it go.

[mc1]

No. I have him top ten but not quite top 5. Probably 7-9.

[dfr52]

1) Emmitt Smith: complete back with the most impressive combination of stats, accolades, and post season success
2) Walter Payton: might be the most complete modern running back as he could run, block, catch, throw, and return kicks
3) Jim Brown: running back who was physically ahead of his peers and ran with unmatched speed and power
4) Barry Sanders: one of the most explosive and elusive athletes to play the game regardless of position
5) I don't really have a clear cut number 5 quite a few backs could claim this spot (including Peterson)

[bojesphob]

Give Barry the Cowboys O-Line (Larry Allen anyone?), and he would have had 3000 yards in a season. Emmitt would have a full head of steam by the time he hit where his o-line had pushed the D line back to before he'd even have to worry about being hit (when he was with the Cowboys). That Dallas O-Line was arguably the best of all time (behind maybe the Packers line from the 60's, pretty much the only competition). I was at the Packers Lions game in 1996 (Packers Super Bowl season with the best D in the league that year). They held Barry to 3 yards total rushing. Now, you might say, what's so impressive with that? The impressive thing about that was that he was being hit behind the line of scrimmage by some of the best D players (including Reggie White) 5 to 10 yards behind the line of scrimmage, breaking several tackles, and STILL getting those 5-10 yards back. Emmitt didn't have to deal with anything near that bad of a line until he got to the Cardinals. Emmitt benefited GREATLY from a super dominant O-Line while Barry played behind one that routinely forgot how to block.

[moose84]

Top 3 in any order - brown, payton, and sanders

4 through 7 - any of peterson, faulk, tomlinson, dickerson, campbell, simpson, and emmitt

All depends on who you ask and their preference

So top 7 at least in my eyes, probably even top 5

AD was a beast no doubt! Huge fan, loved watching him play at Oklahoma and Minny

[Siberian13]

You are attempting to debate a Bears fan about Walter Payton brother. Compound that by countering with a Lions player. It's an exercise in futility. Be like Elsa and just let it go.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8VLgtJqaxIlhu/giphy.gif

[CC71]

I was shocked to come in here and not find Jerome Bettis on anyone's list. How can he be completely ignored?

out of all of the modern era running backs in the HOF, Bettis would be the last guy i would want on my team

[Ray27Ray52]

out of all of the modern era running backs in the HOF, Bettis would be the last guy i would want on my team

Amen. He was a one dimensional bruiser which is all well and good. But to put him amongst the all time greats at RB is ludicrous.

[MFaulkCollector]

First of all All-Pro is a bit random because the designation has been handed out by multiple press agencies throughout the years. TD was named 1st team or 2nd team All-Pro 14 times. Plus he was a contemporary of Walter Payton. So he was 2nd to Walter a lot. In fact, when he retired he was 2nd to Payton in rushing.

Additionally, upon retirement, Dorsett finished 6th all-time in TDs and he was 8th in yards/game. He still holds the longest run from scrimmage in NFL history. He was also one of the best post season runners of all-time with a higher y/a than Walter, Brown, Emmitt, Barry, etc.

I saw him play and just like you knew Barry Sanders could score on any play, that was Dorsett.

The beauty of a debate like this is the subjectivity.

you are losing me on this one.... dorsett was 1st team in 81, second team in 82,83; not sure where you are coming up with more than that.

and although i do agree the all pro teams can be subjective.. let's just look at the quality of the seasons. in 81 dorsett ran for 1650 and caught another 300 plus worth of yards. that is a great season and certainly worthy of an all pro nod........ in 82 it was a strike shortened season where he projected to about 1300 rush yards and 300 receiving yards; that's a fine year but one that certainly doesn't warrant first team all pro consideration. in 83 he ran for roughly the same 1300 and 300 receiving.... another good year, but not a first team all pro caliber season

and if you still think he was better than the all pro team's show.... in an era (80's) where pro bowls actually meant something..... he made just 4 pro bowls in 10-11 years as a starter........ and dorsett was a popular guy; so let's not go down the road of pro bowl's are a popularity contest. the cowboys are a popular franchise and dorsett was a popular player; making just 4 pro bowls is a pretty big stain on his resume

when you in turn consider adrian peterson matched dorsett's 4 pro bowls with 4 first team all pro teams and a league mvp .... he is just in a different league altogether from a dominance standpoint

dorsett finished his career 6th in td's, 8th in yards per game......? i'm not really sure what this means.... dorsett scored 90 td's in a career where he played 10-11 full seasons as a starter...... peterson has 102 rushing td's in 9 seasons

dorsett has a 4.3 yards per carry clip for his career... his 73 yard per game average is lower than that of fred taylor, edgerrin james, jamal lewis, corey dillon, eddgie george

peterson has a 4.8 yards per carry clip and 92 yards per game... 4th in history behind only jim brown, barry, terrell davis

and if we are talking playoffs.... peterson has a post season average of 82 yeards per game, dorsett at 81....... however, the one plus for dorsett is the playoff yards per carry is higher than peterson

i cannot fathom any logical argument that would/could suggest dorsett is in the same universe as peterson. i just don't think a coherent argument can be made

[kdailey4315]

No.

1. Sanders
2. Sweetness
3. Brown
4. LT
5. OJ
6. AP
7. Emmitt
8. Faulk
9. Dorsett
10. Sayers

[MFaulkCollector]

No.

1. Sanders
2. Sweetness
3. Brown
4. LT
5. OJ
6. AP
7. Emmitt
8. Faulk
9. Dorsett
10. Sayers

hard to argue with most of this....replace 9 with dickerson or campbell though

[Skipscards]

you are losing me on this one.... dorsett was 1st team in 81, second team in 82,83; not sure where you are coming up with more than that.

and although i do agree the all pro teams can be subjective.. let's just look at the quality of the seasons. in 81 dorsett ran for 1650 and caught another 300 plus worth of yards. that is a great season and certainly worthy of an all pro nod........ in 82 it was a strike shortened season where he projected to about 1300 rush yards and 300 receiving yards; that's a fine year but one that certainly doesn't warrant first team all pro consideration. in 83 he ran for roughly the same 1300 and 300 receiving.... another good year, but not a first team all pro caliber season

and if you still think he was better than the all pro team's show.... in an era (80's) where pro bowls actually meant something..... he made just 4 pro bowls in 10-11 years as a starter........ and dorsett was a popular guy; so let's not go down the road of pro bowl's are a popularity contest. the cowboys are a popular franchise and dorsett was a popular player; making just 4 pro bowls is a pretty big stain on his resume

when you in turn consider adrian peterson matched dorsett's 4 pro bowls with 4 first team all pro teams and a league mvp .... he is just in a different league altogether from a dominance standpoint

dorsett finished his career 6th in td's, 8th in yards per game......? i'm not really sure what this means.... dorsett scored 90 td's in a career where he played 10-11 full seasons as a starter...... peterson has 102 rushing td's in 9 seasons

dorsett has a 4.3 yards per carry clip for his career... his 73 yard per game average is lower than that of fred taylor, edgerrin james, jamal lewis, corey dillon, eddgie george

peterson has a 4.8 yards per carry clip and 92 yards per game... 4th in history behind only jim brown, barry, terrell davis

and if we are talking playoffs.... peterson has a post season average of 82 yeards per game, dorsett at 81....... however, the one plus for dorsett is the playoff yards per carry is higher than peterson

i cannot fathom any logical argument that would/could suggest dorsett is in the same universe as peterson. i just don't think a coherent argument can be made

What it means is we’re comparing two players from two vastly different eras. As for All-Pro, I’m talking about the fact that the definition of All-Pro has changed over the years. He was named 1st or 2nd team All-Pro 14 times by 6 different organizations. (Peterson, 18 times for what it’s worth)

Look, it’s my list and TD is in my top 5. AP is not. A big part of it is the era he played in; offense was a lot harder to come by. 2nd leading rusher at his retirement...big deal to me. 2nd most all-purpose yards when he retired. (Still has more than AP) Played better than anyone when it counted most...the playoffs. Better receiver than AP.

I saw both of them play. Both were great. TD was better.

[CC71]

No.

1. Sanders
2. Sweetness
3. Brown
4. LT
5. OJ
6. AP
7. Emmitt
8. Faulk
9. Dorsett
10. Sayers

Sayers was an explosive player with a few good seasons but his career was too short to include him in the top 10, just my opinion. Same goes for terell davis

[MFaulkCollector]

What it means is we’re comparing two players from two vastly different eras. As for All-Pro, I’m talking about the fact that the definition of All-Pro has changed over the years. He was named 1st or 2nd team All-Pro 14 times by 6 different organizations. (Peterson, 18 times for what it’s worth)

Look, it’s my list and TD is in my top 5. AP is not. A big part of it is the era he played in; offense was a lot harder to come by. 2nd leading rusher at his retirement...big deal to me. 2nd most all-purpose yards when he retired. (Still has more than AP) Played better than anyone when it counted most...the playoffs. Better receiver than AP.

I saw both of them play. Both were great. TD was better.

you are certainly entitled to your opinion..... but the only argument to be made is the subjective eye test

i guess it's like me saying aaron rodgers is the best qb ever... i can't back it up with definitive stats.... but my eyes have never seen better

[kdailey4315]

Sayers was an explosive player with a few good seasons but his career was too short to include him in the top 10, just my opinion. Same goes for terell davis

All valid points. I sometimes think that Sayers gets the Kofax treatment. I could easily replace Sayers with Dickerson or Campell like the person a few posts up said.

I do think Bettis and Martin are not getting enough credit though too.

[MFaulkCollector]

All valid points. I sometimes think that Sayers gets the Kofax treatment. I could easily replace Sayers with Dickerson or Campell like the person a few posts up said.

I do think Bettis and Martin are not getting enough credit though too.

no, replace dorsett..... sayers is fine, :)!

[Stifle]

Good thing Gil Brandt didn't create this thread! His top 25 is non-sense, 4. Bo Jackson, 3. Gale Sayers. Shocked he didn't add H. Walker to the list with his Georgia & USFL stats.

[Whodey14]

1) Jim Brown
2) Walter Payton
3) Barry Sanders
4) Adrian Peterson
5) OJ Simpson
6) Eric Dickerson
7) Earl Campbell
8) Marshall Faulk
9) Ladainian Tomlinson
10) Emmitt Smith ( most over rated in my opinion)

[Skipscards]

you are certainly entitled to your opinion..... but the only argument to be made is the subjective eye test

i guess it's like me saying aaron rodgers is the best qb ever... i can't back it up with definitive stats.... but my eyes have never seen better

Not exactly. I’m not saying Dorsett is the best ever. I’m saying he’s better than AP. The main points are Dorsett happened to play at the same time as arguably the greatest RB in history so his not having a lot of black ink is easily explained and he played during a time when offense (TDs, Yards, etc) was harder to come by compared to AP.

It’s actually why I put Jim Brown #1. He was so far and away better than his contemporaries in an era where offense was even more limited that he ranks on top for me.

To use your Rodgers comparison. In a debate of whether he is better than say, Johnny Unitas, I’d adjust for the era. I’m not saying who I think is better but that’s the approach I’d take. Dorsett’s numbers are reasonably close to AP (more yards, fewer TDs, much better receiver, etc) that they’d still look good if they were accomplished in today’s era of “Madden Football”.

I also have the benefit of having lived through both eras. It’s not the sole reason TD is better. Just something that gives me additional perspective.

[BJC]

out of all of the modern era running backs in the HOF, Bettis would be the last guy i would want on my team



me too!! lol
i am actually surprised that bettis is in HOF

I take edgerrin james or fred taylor over bettis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MFaulkCollector]

Not exactly. I’m not saying Dorsett is the best ever. I’m saying he’s better than AP. The main points are Dorsett happened to play at the same time as arguably the greatest RB in history so his not having a lot of black ink is easily explained and he played during a time when offense (TDs, Yards, etc) was harder to come by compared to AP.

It’s actually why I put Jim Brown #1. He was so far and away better than his contemporaries in an era where offense was even more limited that he ranks on top for me.

To use your Rodgers comparison. In a debate of whether he is better than say, Johnny Unitas, I’d adjust for the era. I’m not saying who I think is better but that’s the approach I’d take. Dorsett’s numbers are reasonably close to AP (more yards, fewer TDs, much better receiver, etc) that they’d still look good if they were accomplished in today’s era of “Madden Football”.

I also have the benefit of having lived through both eras. It’s not the sole reason TD is better. Just something that gives me additional perspective.

i agree on brown 100%.... his entire career is black ink and all pro teams.... his yards per carry and yards per game are unmatched. jim brown had the body to play in any era and probably the best set of physical tools ever..... add in the fact that passing wasn't all that popular; people knew who was getting the ball and it just didn't matter. i for one think jim brown is not only the best running back of all time; i think he is the greatest football player in history

i can appreciate some of your points for dorsett this time around; but one thing i would point out that you may not be taking into account.

yes; i agree yards were harder to come by in the early 80's...... however, in an era of yards/passsing/td's....... adrian peterson is an absolute throwback in his style. it has been decades since a back has been good enough to line up in the deep I and just destroy defenses. peterson was the only offensive threat on minnesota for years.... yet when he played, he dominated. everyone tried to stop him, he ran for 5 yards a carry over his career in minnesota that lasted nearly 10 years

where you penalize peterson for his era..... i see peterson as the ultimate throwback rb who was able to impose his will in a 100% passing era

and statistically.... at this point peterson has like 400 less yards and 15 more td's..... but has done that in 9 years vs dorsett at 11

i'm not trying to change your mind or argue..... just showing my point of view as you have done for tony. era bias and projection makes these topics fun; the comps just can't be perfectly quantified

[Screamer]

Uh,





no

[kdailey4315]

me too!! lol
i am actually surprised that bettis is in HOF

I take edgerrin james or fred taylor over bettis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So Bettis just accumulated his stats by luck? He has better numbers across the board than James or Taylor.

[BJC]

So Bettis just accumulated his stats by luck? He has better numbers across the board than James or Taylor.



I could be wrong but to me Bettis looked like some big guy who was strong but not explosive. To me Bettis was like Natrone Means. Taylor and James looked much faster than Bettis


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dfr52]

Not exactly. I’m not saying Dorsett is the best ever. I’m saying he’s better than AP. The main points are Dorsett happened to play at the same time as arguably the greatest RB in history so his not having a lot of black ink is easily explained and he played during a time when offense (TDs, Yards, etc) was harder to come by compared to AP.

It’s actually why I put Jim Brown #1. He was so far and away better than his contemporaries in an era where offense was even more limited that he ranks on top for me.

To use your Rodgers comparison. In a debate of whether he is better than say, Johnny Unitas, I’d adjust for the era. I’m not saying who I think is better but that’s the approach I’d take. Dorsett’s numbers are reasonably close to AP (more yards, fewer TDs, much better receiver, etc) that they’d still look good if they were accomplished in today’s era of “Madden Football”.

I also have the benefit of having lived through both eras. It’s not the sole reason TD is better. Just something that gives me additional perspective.

Dorsett also was part of a rotational system for most of his career. His rushing, receiving, and scoring numbers were definitely affected.

[dfr52]

i agree on brown 100%.... his entire career is black ink and all pro teams.... his yards per carry and yards per game are unmatched. jim brown had the body to play in any era and probably the best set of physical tools ever..... add in the fact that passing wasn't all that popular; people knew who was getting the ball and it just didn't matter. i for one think jim brown is not only the best running back of all time; i think he is the greatest football player in history

i can appreciate some of your points for dorsett this time around; but one thing i would point out that you may not be taking into account.

yes; i agree yards were harder to come by in the early 80's...... however, in an era of yards/passsing/td's....... adrian peterson is an absolute throwback in his style. it has been decades since a back has been good enough to line up in the deep I and just destroy defenses. peterson was the only offensive threat on minnesota for years.... yet when he played, he dominated. everyone tried to stop him, he ran for 5 yards a carry over his career in minnesota that lasted nearly 10 years

where you penalize peterson for his era..... i see peterson as the ultimate throwback rb who was able to impose his will in a 100% passing era

and statistically.... at this point peterson has like 400 less yards and 15 more td's..... but has done that in 9 years vs dorsett at 11

i'm not trying to change your mind or argue..... just showing my point of view as you have done for tony. era bias and projection makes these topics fun; the comps just can't be perfectly quantified

Back in 2009 when Peterson was probably surrounded with the most offensive talent his numbers were not the best of his career (the exception being TD's). His total rushing yards, yards per game, and yards per attempt were on the lower end for his career.

[Ray27Ray52]

So Bettis just accumulated his stats by luck? He has better numbers across the board than James or Taylor.

You may want to check those numbers when comparing Bettis and Edge. Yes, Bettis has him in rushing yd's and total TD's but that's basically it. Edge accumulated his numbers in two less seasons than Bettis as well. There is no legit comparison between Bettis and Edge. Edge is by far the superior back.

[Hollywood42]

That's because 2009 was probably about the first time AP had a quarterback capable of throwing the ball- Brett Favre. Of course his running stats are going to go down

Back in 2009 when Peterson was probably surrounded with the most offensive talent his numbers were not the best of his career (the exception being TD's). His total rushing yards, yards per game, and yards per attempt were on the lower end for his career.

[Grid]

i for one think jim brown is not only the best running back of all time; i think he is the greatest football player in history


Here comes the Walter Payton guy again! With that said, I'll give the nod to Jim Brown as the best RB. People were downright afraid to play him. You knew he was getting the ball, but you were almost hapless when trying to stop him.

Payton gets the edge for the better football player, IMO. He had better hands, caught more passes and for thousands of more yards (yes the game was different then but he still did it).

They both did kick returns, Brown had 22.3 yards per return. Payton had 31.7.

They both had passing plays, but Payton managed triple the yards and triple the TD's.

Payton was also called in as a kicker when needed. Dude could actually punt the ball.

Since Payton was the do anything player, it landed him #3 in the all time All Purpose Yards list (He retired as #1). 21,803 AP yards. Just behind Jerry Rice (Nearly all on catching) and Brian Mitchell (Nearly all on returns). Jim Brown isn't even on the list of top 25 for that. And for the sake of this thread, AP isn't either.

[Siberian13]

Here comes the Walter Payton guy again! With that said, I'll give the nod to Jim Brown as the best RB. People were downright afraid to play him. You knew he was getting the ball, but you were almost hapless when trying to stop him.

Payton gets the edge for the better football player, IMO. He had better hands, caught more passes and for thousands of more yards (yes the game was different then but he still did it).

They both did kick returns, Brown had 22.3 yards per return. Payton had 31.7.

They both had passing plays, but Payton managed triple the yards and triple the TD's.

Payton was also called in as a kicker when needed. Dude could actually punt the ball.

Since Payton was the do anything player, it landed him #3 in the all time All Purpose Yards list (He retired as #1). 21,803 AP yards. Just behind Jerry Rice (Nearly all on catching) and Brian Mitchell (Nearly all on returns). Jim Brown isn't even on the list of top 25 for that. And for the sake of this thread, AP isn't either.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Homer_British_Museum.jpg/220px-Homer_British_Museum.jpg

[dfr52]

That's because 2009 was probably about the first time AP had a quarterback capable of throwing the ball- Brett Favre. Of course his running stats are going to go down

But isn't the popular theory that with better surrounding talent means better stats? I was not surprised the totals dipped but that his yards per carry was not higher.

[dfr52]

Here comes the Walter Payton guy again! With that said, I'll give the nod to Jim Brown as the best RB. People were downright afraid to play him. You knew he was getting the ball, but you were almost hapless when trying to stop him.

Payton gets the edge for the better football player, IMO. He had better hands, caught more passes and for thousands of more yards (yes the game was different then but he still did it).

They both did kick returns, Brown had 22.3 yards per return. Payton had 31.7.

They both had passing plays, but Payton managed triple the yards and triple the TD's.

Payton was also called in as a kicker when needed. Dude could actually punt the ball.

Since Payton was the do anything player, it landed him #3 in the all time All Purpose Yards list (He retired as #1). 21,803 AP yards. Just behind Jerry Rice (Nearly all on catching) and Brian Mitchell (Nearly all on returns). Jim Brown isn't even on the list of top 25 for that. And for the sake of this thread, AP isn't either.

Brown was a truly great player but he also played on some very good teams. The Browns offensive line probably had more talent than the Cowboys and the receivers were both HOF caliber. Jim Browns blocking back was a pro bowler and Leroy Kelly was his backup. He even played with Bobby Mitchell for nearly half of his career. Frank Ryan was no slouch at QB and their starting tight end was an old school guy who played TE and Linebacker (different seasons).

[MFaulkCollector]

Back in 2009 when Peterson was probably surrounded with the most offensive talent his numbers were not the best of his career (the exception being TD's). His total rushing yards, yards per game, and yards per attempt were on the lower end for his career.

1800 plus yards from scrimmage... 43 receptions... 18 td's... first team all pro

i think 2009 was a fine year for peterson....... but like you reference; he had two years that are considered a lot better

[Hollywood42]

To an extent, sure. But when you go from Gus Frerotte and Tarvaris Jackson to Brett Favre, you're going from not much of any passing game at all to a huge passing game. Makes complete sense that the rushing stats would drop off a bit. If instead of Favre is was a QB who was closer to good than great, than perhaps that opens things up a bit more as it makes defenses respect both the running and passing game without taking away too many carries. Plus...

But isn't the popular theory that with better surrounding talent means better stats? I was not surprised the totals dipped but that his yards per carry was not higher.

As mentioned here, '08 was still a great year. Led the league in rushing, 10 touchdowns average of 110 yards per game, still a fantastic season. Arguably his 2nd best in his career, and also just his 2nd season of his career

1800 plus yards from scrimmage... 43 receptions... 18 td's... first team all pro

i think 2009 was a fine year for peterson....... but like you reference; he had two years that are considered a lot better



EDIT- I switched to 2008 stats and info when typing up this point, oops. Not going to bother correcting it, but my point still stands

[MFaulkCollector]

Here comes the Walter Payton guy again! With that said, I'll give the nod to Jim Brown as the best RB. People were downright afraid to play him. You knew he was getting the ball, but you were almost hapless when trying to stop him.

Payton gets the edge for the better football player, IMO. He had better hands, caught more passes and for thousands of more yards (yes the game was different then but he still did it).

They both did kick returns, Brown had 22.3 yards per return. Payton had 31.7.

They both had passing plays, but Payton managed triple the yards and triple the TD's.

Payton was also called in as a kicker when needed. Dude could actually punt the ball.

Since Payton was the do anything player, it landed him #3 in the all time All Purpose Yards list (He retired as #1). 21,803 AP yards. Just behind Jerry Rice (Nearly all on catching) and Brian Mitchell (Nearly all on returns). Jim Brown isn't even on the list of top 25 for that. And for the sake of this thread, AP isn't either.

i can respect a thoughtful argument....... which you are clearly making

not that i am really comparing the two.... but for the sake of this thread/situation i will use the following analogy

tomlinson was a 3 time all pro and 5 time pro bowler..... which seems low for his overall production... as he was much more of a multi purpose back than a power I run you over type of back.......... kind of similar to payton and how he was used in many different ways and had a lot of versatility.. payton didn't line up 7 or 8 all pro seasons in a row like brown; neither did tomlinson or faulk... but they weren't utilized in the same way

adrain peterson was utilized like jim brown in a lot of ways.... it was the straight ahead beat you down until you can't take anymore... just absolute physical beasts; who could be versatile but it was just easier to impose their will running right at you

so, for anyone who would take payton over brown.... or faulk/tomlinson over peterson...... i can't really argue; it's a different style, focused on different skill sets.

payton was an all timer... no doubt about it

[CC71]

So Bettis just accumulated his stats by luck? He has better numbers across the board than James or Taylor.

in 13 seasons, bettis averaged 4 yards per carry just 4 times.

Bettis, 3.9 yards per carry, 13 seasons, 71.2 rushing yards per game in his career
Taylor 4.6 yards per carry, 13 seasons, 76.4 rushing yards per game in his career

so yes fred taylor was a more efficient runner than bettis was. plus taylor has 90 more catches than bettis.

[Grid]

i can respect a thoughtful argument....... which you are clearly making

not that i am really comparing the two.... but for the sake of this thread/situation i will use the following analogy

tomlinson was a 3 time all pro and 5 time pro bowler..... which seems low for his overall production... as he was much more of a multi purpose back than a power I run you over type of back.......... kind of similar to payton and how he was used in many different ways and had a lot of versatility.. payton didn't line up 7 or 8 all pro seasons in a row like brown; neither did tomlinson or faulk... but they weren't utilized in the same way

adrain peterson was utilized like jim brown in a lot of ways.... it was the straight ahead beat you down until you can't take anymore... just absolute physical beasts; who could be versatile but it was just easier to impose their will running right at you

so, for anyone who would take payton over brown.... or faulk/tomlinson over peterson...... i can't really argue; it's a different style, focused on different skill sets.

payton was an all timer... no doubt about it

And I like a spirited discussion as well! Walter went to the Pro Bowl in 1976, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 83, 84, 85, 86 and then retired. He made it every single year past his rookie season except 1982, which he got hurt half way through the season.

So that takes out the Tomlinson argument. And the fact that Jim Brown was racking up nodes when there was only 12 teams in the League really slants it.

So when you are voting All Pro when Jim Brown was winning the honor, you had Jim Brown and 11 other starting RB's in the entire League. During Walter's career you had 28 teams in the League. And yet he still went nearly every year.

I like what you are selling, don't get me wrong. But for anyone to think that Walter was not also a powerback, that would just be unfair to the man. He had power to go with his finesse . And strength to go with his elusiveness. I give pure power to Jim Brown. But Payton was plenty powerful.

And don't forget his blocking. By nearly all accounts Payton was considered one of the best blocking RB's to ever play the game.

To that end, in my worthless opinion, Payton was the better football player (all things considered) then Jim brown. But for the best pound for pound dominating RB to ever play, I'm going Jim Brown.

[dfr52]

To an extent, sure. But when you go from Gus Frerotte and Tarvaris Jackson to Brett Favre, you're going from not much of any passing game at all to a huge passing game. Makes complete sense that the rushing stats would drop off a bit. If instead of Favre is was a QB who was closer to good than great, than perhaps that opens things up a bit more as it makes defenses respect both the running and passing game without taking away too many carries. Plus...



As mentioned here, '08 was still a great year. Led the league in rushing, 10 touchdowns average of 110 yards per game, still a fantastic season. Arguably his 2nd best in his career, and also just his 2nd season of his career





EDIT- I switched to 2008 stats and info when typing up this point, oops. Not going to bother correcting it, but my point still stands

1800 plus yards from scrimmage... 43 receptions... 18 td's... first team all pro

i think 2009 was a fine year for peterson....... but like you reference; he had two years that are considered a lot better

My point was that surrounding talent does not mean a running back will play or produce at an extra ordinary high level.

[Hollywood42]

I don't think anyone was saying that. AP was THE guy in Minnesota for a long time, and pretty much the only guy for a large chunk of his time here

My point was that surrounding talent does not mean a running back will play or produce at an extra ordinary high level.

[TheHeel]

SaQuan

Too early?

[Grid]

I never did answer the question. No, AP is not a top 5 RB IMO. He is a top 10 back and a future Hall of Famer. But not a top 5 back.

Top 5 modern day (1995-Now) RB, I'd bite. All time? Nope.

[dfr52]

I don't think anyone was saying that. AP was THE guy in Minnesota for a long time, and pretty much the only guy for a large chunk of his time here

Its the argument used against Emmitt Smith and only Emmitt Smith.lol

[Rookiemonster]

Yes I would say he is too 5 .


I never seen Jim Brown or Walter Payton. But I see sanders and a lot of Emmit Smith. Barry Sanders was the best I’ve ever seen.

[MFaulkCollector]

And I like a spirited discussion as well! Walter went to the Pro Bowl in 1976, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 83, 84, 85, 86 and then retired. He made it every single year past his rookie season except 1982, which he got hurt half way through the season.

So that takes out the Tomlinson argument. And the fact that Jim Brown was racking up nodes when there was only 12 teams in the League really slants it.

So when you are voting All Pro when Jim Brown was winning the honor, you had Jim Brown and 11 other starting RB's in the entire League. During Walter's career you had 28 teams in the League. And yet he still went nearly every year.

I like what you are selling, don't get me wrong. But for anyone to think that Walter was not also a powerback, that would just be unfair to the man. He had power to go with his finesse . And strength to go with his elusiveness. I give pure power to Jim Brown. But Payton was plenty powerful.

And don't forget his blocking. By nearly all accounts Payton was considered one of the best blocking RB's to ever play the game.

To that end, in my worthless opinion, Payton was the better football player (all things considered) then Jim brown. But for the best pound for pound dominating RB to ever play, I'm going Jim Brown.

the number of teams in the league when each guy played isn't really something i put much stock in (hadn't really considered it actually).... so yes, thank you for that thought

and to go along with the idea..... i'm not a huge pro bowl guy.... but i do think they can be used for positive arguments at times. for instance, isaac bruce is a 4 time pro bowler over a very long career (he practically has no black ink, never been an all pro).... but andre reed is another receiver who has no black ink, no all pro teams... but he did make 7 straight pro bowls

i'm more of an all pro, black ink type of guy.... but to make 7 straight pro bowls means you were at the top 4-5 of the position for nearly a decade.... if that is the perception, usually it holds true for hall of fame voting (offensive skill positions)... and as is, reed is in... and bruce will be waiting a long time; possibly never making it

for payton to show the level of consistency to make the pro bowl every year he was healthy says a lot..... guys came, guys went... and payton was among the best through all of it............ the covno does make me appreciate payton's accomplishments a little more than previously.

[codered]

mine would be

1. jim brown
2. barry sanders
3. walter payton
4. adrian peterson
5. emmitt smith

6. eric dickerson
7. marshall faulk
8. ladainian tomlinson/oj simpson

I agree with your top 5. The top 3 could be very interchangeable depending on your perspective. I’m very comfortable with AP at 4. Emmitt at 5 is fair (or unfair) considering the talent he had around him; the line, the other triplets, a fantastic blocking TE, one of the best blocking FB’s of the 90’s and an amazing D that allowed them to play with a lead and run the ball often. I like Dickerson at 6 but wondering if he didn’t play in the USFL if most of us would rank him higher. I’d have to slide LT slightly ahead of Faulk and OJ though haha. LT’s charger years were truly amazing

[Skipscards]

I agree with your top 5. The top 3 could be very interchangeable depending on your perspective. I’m very comfortable with AP at 4. Emmitt at 5 is fair (or unfair) considering the talent he had around him; the line, the other triplets, a fantastic blocking TE, one of the best blocking FB’s of the 90’s and an amazing D that allowed them to play with a lead and run the ball often. I like Dickerson at 6 but wondering if he didn’t play in the USFL if most of us would rank him higher. I’d have to slide LT slightly ahead of Faulk and OJ though haha. LT’s charger years were truly amazing

Dickerson didn’t play in the USFL.

[SleeperCards]

5. AP
4. Jim Brown
3. Walter Payton
2. Barry Sanders
1. Tshimanga Biakabutuka

[corndog]

5. AP
4. Jim Brown
3. Walter Payton
2. Barry Sanders
1. Tshimanga Biakabutuka

https://i.imgur.com/rXGXMnh.gif

[CC71]

1. Tshimanga Biakabutuka

i bet you had to google his name for correct spelling

[ensbergcollecto]

https://i.imgur.com/rXGXMnh.gif

amazing reply. you win sir

[dfr52]

Dickerson didn’t play in the USFL.

Maybe thinking H.Walker?

[SleeperCards]

i bet you had to google his name for correct spelling

This deeply offends me.

[Bruin7]

Top 10 RB and future HOFer (not sure if he's a 1st ballot candidate though). He was Earl Campbell-approved in Minnesota before the fiascos.

ACS

[codered]

Maybe thinking H.Walker?

Yeah lol brain fart that’s who I was thinking of

[starfox]

Barry still hasn’t beat out Jim Brown. Let alone Emmitt.

Just look where Dallas was at the start of 1993.

And where they ended up.

All this talk about Emmitt line is total BS. A great back makes a great line. Emmitt would hit the holes instead of dance like Barry. Barry was like a home run hitter. Swings and misses a lot. Which is why his own coaching staff wouldn’t have him on the field in the red zone. Emmitt would smash the line and trust his blockers. He even destroyed teams with broke bones in the playoffs.

It’s amazing how YouTube made someone great.I like your perspective. More than his line and teammates, Emmitt's durability was his greatest asset. In15 years (I believe it was 15) of playing, he missed maybe a season's worth of games total; players today aren't built like that, mentally or physically. He was the heart and soul of the Cowboys and no running back played in more big games. Further, 18,355 and 175 will never be broken. Emmitt may or may not be number 1, but he's the most tested and passed the test the most.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[MIRRABB]

I always enjoyed the Jim Brown VS Walter Payton debate. But who in their right mind would put Barry above Sweetness?

Payton: 16,726 yards 110 TDs, 492 rec 4,538 yards 15 TDs, 4,330 touches 21,264 yards 125 TDs

Sanders: 15,269 yards 99 TDs, 352 rec 2,921 yards 10 TDs, 3,414 touches 18,190 yards 109 TDs

That is not even looking at Walter's throwing 8 TD's or his years of kickoff duties. The man retired with 8 NFL All Time Best records. Barry, not so much.

Now let's look at their Playoff stats! Unfair that Barry only won 1 game? I guess he couldn't carry his team like Payton.

Now, go back to the AP debate!

I was trying to make a reasonable argument on somehow could put Payton above Sanders, and I thought it might help the case to look up his playoff stats, considering you said he carried his team in the playoffs, unlike Sanders..

Oops :doh:
Particularly incredible that he averaged 2.77 yards per carry in the playoffs the year they won the Super Bowl. The defense was so phenomenal that they won the title in spite of all the wasted offensive plays when they handed off to him.

[Grid]

I was trying to make a reasonable argument on somehow could put Payton above Sanders, and I thought it might help the case to look up his playoff stats, considering you said he carried his team in the playoffs, unlike Sanders..

Oops :doh:
Particularly incredible that he averaged 2.77 yards per carry in the playoffs the year they won the Super Bowl. The defense was so phenomenal that they won the title in spite of all the wasted offensive plays when they handed off to him.

Ahh, someone who never read or watched anything about the 46-10 dismantling of the Patriots in SB XX. In the biggest game on the planet, Payton Played the "Ultimate Decoy". Go ahead and Google that.

Mike Ditka even said multiple times that Payton agreed to play decoy in the playoffs. And teams honed in on him and freed up everyone else. There is a classic shot of 7 Patriots following Payton after a fake hand off and McMahon making an easy pass in the end zone to a wide open player.

I'm not here to persuade you. He played in 9 games and averaged nearly 100 yards per game in offense. He made the playoff 6 times in his career. A team that was garbage before they drafted him (last place in the Div) and yet after adding Payton... :coffee:

So whats the argument that puts Barry on top of Payton in this regard? The lack of games his team won? The fact that Barry averaged fewer yards in the games then Payton? Curious to see how this gets spun.

[dfr52]

Ahh, someone who never read or watched anything about the 46-10 dismantling of the Patriots in SB XX. In the biggest game on the planet, Payton Played the "Ultimate Decoy". Go ahead and Google that.

Mike Ditka even said multiple times that Payton agreed to play decoy in the playoffs. And teams honed in on him and freed up everyone else. There is a classic shot of 7 Patriots following Payton after a fake hand off and McMahon making an easy pass in the end zone to a wide open player.

I'm not here to persuade you. He played in 9 games and averaged nearly 100 yards per game in offense. He made the playoff 6 times in his career. A team that was garbage before they drafted him (last place in the Div) and yet after adding Payton... :coffee:

So whats the argument that puts Barry on top of Payton in this regard? The lack of games his team won? The fact that Barry averaged fewer yards in the games then Payton? Curious to see how this gets spun.

The NFL has the game up on Youtube and he really was the focal point of the Patriots.

[dfr52]

Yeah lol brain fart that’s who I was thinking of

I really wonder what type of numbers Walker would of put up if he played in the NFL his entire career and was in the right type of offensive scheme.

[Skipscards]

I really wonder what type of numbers Walker would of put up if he played in the NFL his entire career and was in the right type of offensive scheme.

Herschel was a beast in College and in his three years in the USFL. He definitely would have racked up more yards had he started his career in the NFL. I think it is safe to say he would have easily cracked 10,000 yards. And while I am not suggesting we gave him credit for his USFL yardage, if we did he would have retired with the 2nd most yards behind Walter. He’d be 6th today. But the USFL season was 18 games and though there were some great players there, it wasn’t the NFL.

Who knows how his career would have unfolded had he begun in the NFL? I suspect he could have made a run anywhere in the top 10. Instead his NFL legacy will be the guy who birthed the Cowboys 90s dynasty.

[bojesphob]

Man, this makes me wish Barry would have played longer. I miss watching plays like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBhn1wMyzV4

ETA: I was actually at the Packers-Lions game in #9. Even rooting for the Packers, that was an exciting play to watch!

[Siberian13]

Man, this makes me wish Barry would have played longer. I miss watching plays like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBhn1wMyzV4

ETA: I was actually at the Packers-Lions game in #9. Even rooting for the Packers, that was an exciting play to watch!

Three things I noticed:

Lots of ankle breakers
Lots of horse collars
Lots of Bucs :)

[bojesphob]

Three things I noticed:

Lots of ankle breakers
Lots of horse collars
Lots of Bucs :)

He left so many opponent jocks on the field it was insane.

I did notice the number of clips against the Buccs, too. Not sure if you noticed, but one of the Packers ones had him leaving Reggie White in the dust. That one was just impressive in the fact it was a HoF player dusting another HoF player!

[DigsUT]

Man, this makes me wish Barry would have played longer. I miss watching plays like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBhn1wMyzV4

ETA: I was actually at the Packers-Lions game in #9. Even rooting for the Packers, that was an exciting play to watch!

I love seeing a shifty back as much as anyone, but give me the pure trucking power of the Tyler Rose any day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9y_KZwOq9g

[robert0629]

My first four would be the same as most - Emmitt, Barry, Jim Brown, and Payton in no particular order. I actually believe you could make the argument that any one of these players could be number one.

I'm not sure why Emmitt seems to be getting the least amount of respect of the four. I keep hearing that anyone could have run behind that offensive line, but as great as an offensive line as they were only Larry Allen is in the HOF. I think it's important to point out that Allen didn't arrive until 1994 and before he was ever selected to a Pro Bowl, Emmitt had five Pro Bowl selections and three 1st Team All-Pro selections to his credit. Also, Mark Tuinei played seven seasons before Emmitt arrived, and Nate Newton played four. Neither player was selected to the Pro Bowl before Emmitt.

If Emmitt's going to get penalized for playing with such a great offensive line, then why not do the same thing to Jim Brown? Brown played with a great offensive line. Several of them were selected to the Pro Bowl multiple times during his career.

The big argument with Emmitt versus Barry seems to always come down to Emmitt's superior offensive line. Although Detroits line wasn't nearly as good as Dallas' line was, I don't think they were as bad as some on here are suggesting. Even so, I don't think you can just assume that Barry would have been even better had he been running behind Dallas' offensive line. Their running styles were completely different. Barry stood further behind the line of scrimmage than other backs. The extra space made it easier for him to break off a big run. It's also why he had so many plays where he was stopped for a loss. To blame Barry's offensive line for the number of times he was stopped for a loss doesn't take into account the formation he was in and his running style. If I remember correctly the season Barry rushed for 2,000 yards, Detroit tried a formation similar to Dallas' in the first two games. These were the worst two rushing games of the season for Barry. After Detroit went back to their usual formation Barry had over 100 yards rushing in all 14 remaining games. So I don't think suggesting that Barry would have been better with Dallas' line is a very good argument. Both Emmitt and Barry had great careers in systems that were suited to their particular running styles.

As for Peterson, I would put him in the five to seven range with Faulk and Dickerson. All three have a similar number of Pro Bowl and 1st Team All-Pro selections. I would probably lean toward Dickerson being 5th as his playoff numbers are superior to the other two.

What I like about Peterson though is he's 4th all-time in yards per game at 92.0. He's also tied for 13th in yards per attempt at 4.8, but most of the running backs ahead of him on the list didn't play past the age of 30 when this number would normally come down. I think you could make an argument that either Dickerson, Faulk, or Peterson could be fifth. In the end Peterson probably gets the 5th spot since he's still playing, but I don't see him breaking into the top four.

[ninjacookies]

The big argument with Emmitt versus Barry seems to always come down to Emmitt's superior offensive line. Although Detroits line wasn't nearly as good as Dallas' line was, I don't think they were as bad as some on here are suggesting. Even so, I don't think you can just assume that Barry would have been even better had he been running behind Dallas' offensive line. Their running styles were completely different. Barry stood further behind the line of scrimmage than other backs. The extra space made it easier for him to break off a big run. It's also why he had so many plays where he was stopped for a loss. To blame Barry's offensive line for the number of times he was stopped for a loss doesn't take into account the formation he was in and his running style. If I remember correctly the season Barry rushed for 2,000 yards, Detroit tried a formation similar to Dallas' in the first two games. These were the worst two rushing games of the season for Barry. After Detroit went back to their usual formation Barry had over 100 yards rushing in all 14 remaining games. So I don't think suggesting that Barry would have been better with Dallas' line is a very good argument. Both Emmitt and Barry had great careers in systems that were suited to their particular running styles.



I don't think it's just the offensive line argument. It's the entire system and structure of both of their teams. Barry played for one of the worst offensive squads of his era. Who was the best player during that time? Herman Moore? I honestly don't even know.

Teams were allowed to stack the box against that horrid carousel of qb's and receivers nightly.

Emmitt was the complete opposite.

It's hard to even argue that Barry isn't/wasn't the superior back just from the eye test. He clearly had much better, shiftier movies and was far more elusive with better top end speed.

Emmitt was great, but Barry was superb. I'm not sure you could theoretically place Emmitt in any random mediocre system and have him put up the kind of numbers Barry did. I know, hypothetical scenarios suck...but that's where I'm at with it.

[robert0629]

I don't think it's just the offensive line argument. It's the entire system and structure of both of their teams. Barry played for one of the worst offensive squads of his era. Who was the best player during that time? Herman Moore? I honestly don't even know.

Teams were allowed to stack the box against that horrid carousel of qb's and receivers nightly.

Emmitt was the complete opposite.

It's hard to even argue that Barry isn't/wasn't the superior back just from the eye test. He clearly had much better, shiftier movies and was far more elusive with better top end speed.

Emmitt was great, but Barry was superb. I'm not sure you could theoretically place Emmitt in any random mediocre system and have him put up the kind of numbers Barry did. I know, hypothetical scenarios suck...but that's where I'm at with it.

I do agree with you that Barry is the better of the two. I'm just surprised to see how little respect Emmitt gets. I understand that he benefitted greatly from the system that he was in, but he still deserves most of the credit for the success of that offense. And Barry's not the only one who had to deal with defenses that would stack the box. Opposing defenses would key in on Emmitt and the Dallas running game when they played against them, and they still couldn't stop them. As good as Aikman and Irvin were, Emmitt was the key to Dallas' offense.

[ninjacookies]

I do agree with you that Barry is the better of the two. I'm just surprised to see how little respect Emmitt gets. I understand that he benefitted greatly from the system that he was in, but he still deserves most of the credit for the success of that offense. And Barry's not the only one who had to deal with defenses that would stack the box. Opposing defenses would key in on Emmitt and the Dallas running game when they played against them, and they still couldn't stop them. As good as Aikman and Irvin were, Emmitt was the key to Dallas' offense.

Oh I definitely think Emmitt is great. Great players raise the level of play of the guys around them.

I guess I'm more just trying to rationalize why anyone would possibly trivialize his numbers. Not necessarily justified.

But that offense was pretty loaded. And when Deion went dual purpose, it was almost impossible for teams to zone in on Emmitt.

I'm not even taking into consideration the fact that he played alongside one of the best blocking fullbacks of all time, Moose. There's a good reason why he was one of the first people thanked at his HOF speech.

[bojesphob]

I do agree with you that Barry is the better of the two. I'm just surprised to see how little respect Emmitt gets. I understand that he benefitted greatly from the system that he was in, but he still deserves most of the credit for the success of that offense. And Barry's not the only one who had to deal with defenses that would stack the box. Opposing defenses would key in on Emmitt and the Dallas running game when they played against them, and they still couldn't stop them. As good as Aikman and Irvin were, Emmitt was the key to Dallas' offense.

If you were thinking of my comment about Barry having 3000 yards with Emmitt's line, in no way am I discounting what Emmitt did when he played. He absolutely was a great RB and is definitely a top 5 RB of all time, don't get me wrong. I just can't in any circumstance put him above Barry.

Aside from those videos here are the stats that lead me to this.

Barry:
10 seasons (full career), every year over 1000 yards. 1 year had 1883, and 1 year over 2000 (and this with *no name o linemen*)
Ended with 15,256 yards, ~1400 short of Walter Payton (or, ~100 yards short of his average). Career ended not because of injury or because of him slowing down, it ended because of the Ford family not supporting him, so he would have gotten this either the next season or early 2 seasons later had he kept playing (some ifs in there, but there's nothing to suggest he *wouldn't* have gotten around his average the next year).

Emmitt (with an HOF O Lineman several of these years):
First 10 seasons, 9 seasons over 1000 yards. Highest yardage was 1773 (280 yards less than Barry's high, and this is his career high, not just his first 10 season high). After 10 seasons was 3,000 yards short of Walter Payton's total. Took him 3 more seasons to overcome Payton's total rushing yards.

The other telling thing was in a video of the most dominant runs in NFL history produced by the NFL sometime the last couple of years, Emmitt had one run (his 75 yarder) while Barry had at least 3.

Emmitt was great, I won't deny that, but Barry was on a completely different level.

[Patsfan]

1. Barry Sanders
2. Walter Payton
3. Jim Brown
4. Emmitt Smith
5. Eric Dickerson
6. Marshal Faulk
7. Curtis Martin
8. Ladanian Tomlinson
9. O.J. Simpson
10. Jerome Bettis
11. Adrian Peterson

[robert0629]

If you were thinking of my comment about Barry having 3000 yards with Emmitt's line, in no way am I discounting what Emmitt did when he played. He absolutely was a great RB and is definitely a top 5 RB of all time, don't get me wrong. I just can't in any circumstance put him above Barry.

Aside from those videos here are the stats that lead me to this.

Barry:
10 seasons (full career), every year over 1000 yards. 1 year had 1883, and 1 year over 2000 (and this with *no name o linemen*)
Ended with 15,256 yards, ~1400 short of Walter Payton (or, ~100 yards short of his average). Career ended not because of injury or because of him slowing down, it ended because of the Ford family not supporting him, so he would have gotten this either the next season or early 2 seasons later had he kept playing (some ifs in there, but there's nothing to suggest he *wouldn't* have gotten around his average the next year).

Emmitt (with an HOF O Lineman several of these years):
First 10 seasons, 9 seasons over 1000 yards. Highest yardage was 1773 (280 yards less than Barry's high, and this is his career high, not just his first 10 season high). After 10 seasons was 3,000 yards short of Walter Payton's total. Took him 3 more seasons to overcome Payton's total rushing yards.

The other telling thing was in a video of the most dominant runs in NFL history produced by the NFL sometime the last couple of years, Emmitt had one run (his 75 yarder) while Barry had at least 3.

Emmitt was great, I won't deny that, but Barry was on a completely different level.

If I had to choose a number one, I would go with Barry. But I don't agree with him being on a different level. I think the separation between the top four is very small. I wasn't referring to you, but several posters in this thread aren't even including Emmitt in their top four. IMO, If there is a Mt Rushmore of running backs Emmitt is absolutely on it. One of the important aspects that isn't even being considered in this thread is playoff performance. If you had to pick a list of the best running backs in the playoffs, Emmitt might be number one. Whereas Barry, Jim Brown, and Payton probably don't make the top 10.

Just getting back to Emmitt versus Barry. I used to believe that Barry was far and away the better back, but the more I think about it I believe Emmitt is right there with him. One of the problems with this comparison, is fans (me included) tend to overrate Barry somewhat because we are so in awe of his incredible open field running. He was definitely the more explosive back, and definitely the more entertaining. But I think we tend to forget that he lost a lot of yardage on many plays as well. Just because Emmitt's style was a more grind it out approach, doesn't mean he wasn't as effective a runner. It may not have been as exciting, but it obviously got the job done as Emmitt and Dallas won and they won often. His 4.2 yards per attempt is obviously not as impressive as Barry's 5.0, but when you consider that he played until the age of 35 compared to Barry who retired at 30 (most running backs fall off a cliff after this age), it puts things in perspective. Not to mention all the goal line and short yardage situations Emmitt was used for, when Barry was taken off the field in these situations. I remember late in games Emmitt being a huge factor in just killing the clock. He would just get enough yards for the 1st down and then go down. He wasn't interested in breaking off a 20 yard run. I think one of the most impressive stats is the 4,409 rushing attempts he had, which is far and away the record. This speaks to his durability and longevity.

On another note, are there any Walter Payton fans out there? After watching this video I wanted to put him at number one. Watch from 17:15, it's about three minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BkcmbQm2HY

[Skipscards]

If you were thinking of my comment about Barry having 3000 yards with Emmitt's line, in no way am I discounting what Emmitt did when he played. He absolutely was a great RB and is definitely a top 5 RB of all time, don't get me wrong. I just can't in any circumstance put him above Barry.

Aside from those videos here are the stats that lead me to this.

Barry:
10 seasons (full career), every year over 1000 yards. 1 year had 1883, and 1 year over 2000 (and this with *no name o linemen*)
Ended with 15,256 yards, ~1400 short of Walter Payton (or, ~100 yards short of his average). Career ended not because of injury or because of him slowing down, it ended because of the Ford family not supporting him, so he would have gotten this either the next season or early 2 seasons later had he kept playing (some ifs in there, but there's nothing to suggest he *wouldn't* have gotten around his average the next year).

Emmitt (with an HOF O Lineman several of these years):
First 10 seasons, 9 seasons over 1000 yards. Highest yardage was 1773 (280 yards less than Barry's high, and this is his career high, not just his first 10 season high). After 10 seasons was 3,000 yards short of Walter Payton's total. Took him 3 more seasons to overcome Payton's total rushing yards.

The other telling thing was in a video of the most dominant runs in NFL history produced by the NFL sometime the last couple of years, Emmitt had one run (his 75 yarder) while Barry had at least 3.

Emmitt was great, I won't deny that, but Barry was on a completely different level.

A lot of good points. And there is no question, Emmitt’s line was legendary. But the Lions O-Line wasn’t awful and Barry did play with one of the best Tackles of the era, Lomas Brown.

I think Emmitt’s average y/a is definitely diluted by his running style and all his goal line carries. He was a classic, downhill runner who would pound his would be tacklers in the same fashion that Walter and Brown would. Barry was far more a finesse runner in the style of Sayers and OJ.

For me, taking a beating as long as Emmitt did is incredible. Watching Barry run was electric. Both belong on the Mount Rushmore next to Brown and Payton.

[clocsta2323]

he doesn't seem like a douche bag.... in terms of acting a fool in interviews or acting unappreciative of what he has been able to do. he seems like a genuinely decent guy and i have a lot of respect for how he conducts himself..... the switch; eh, certainly not a high point but family lives differ from place to place; not everyone runs the perfect politically correct life and turns their kids to adderall or vyvanse at every turn.... if his parents used the switch and he decided to do the same; i think that is forgivable (just my opinion). i suspect it won't be held against him enough to matter when the vote happens

AP seems so genuinely decent. Switch was certainly not a high point in APs life, you are correct. Geography and tradition is also a solid justification to beat the living crap out of your child with a branch. I wish AP lived a more politically correct life that didn't include beating his kid senseless with a switch.