Duke on in 15 minutes

[BOboy]

Game is on ESPN at 8 pm eastern.

[bigsmooth]

Does this really need a thread?

[rman112]

Does this really need a thread?

Definitely.

[Silentcommit]

Duke any good?

[Siberian13]

Duke any good?

They’re saying possibly a top 25 team this year.

[Thebirdman321]

Who?


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[BOboy]

Would have been funny after that speech to hear one of the Auburn players mumble 'we going to get blown out'.

[hxcmilkshake]

How any nitwits had them at #4 to start the season is beyond me

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[hofcollector2]

WTF....

[ThoseBackPages]

thanks Bobby!

[hxcmilkshake]

Zion is sleep walking tonight so far.

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[RogerGodahell]

Auburn coach is sweating like he played the whole first half

[rman112]

Auburn coach is sweating like he played the whole first half

He's expecting his next NCAA investigation shortly.

[duron]

Auburn coach is sweating like he played the whole first half

Carryover from his pregame speech. Thought he was about to collapse.

[BOboy]

I don't think I have been this interested in an upcoming draft since Bird and Magic came out.

[BOboy]

thanks Bobby!

You're welcome.

[RogerGodahell]

I don't think I have been this interested in an upcoming draft since Bird and Magic came out.

They weren't in the same draft class.

[RogerGodahell]

Bird was in 78, Johnson was in 79.

[WhacksPacks]

The officiating in this game was an absolute joke.

[regularp]

I don't see it with RJ Barrett at this point as far as the #1 overall pick and hype is concerned.

[rhynodino]

The big three were pretty quiet.

And that Harper kid can ball out.


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[ballhawkdawk]

I never watch regular season college ball but figured I’d tune in to see what all the hype was about with the Duke squad. Left disappointed.

[rats60]

They weren't in the same draft class.

They were in the same rookie class and they would have been in the same draft if the Celtics hadn't signed Bird prior to the draft.

[hxcmilkshake]

He's expecting his next NCAA investigation shortly.Yeah and the espn phonies croon all over him cuz hes got a good team this year...pffft

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[irfuji]

I never watch regular season college ball but figured I’d tune in to see what all the hype was about with the Duke squad. Left disappointed.

Interesting.

Admittedly I'm very biased for Duke but this was hands down the worse game they've played this season. And they still beat a top 10 team by 6 points.

I'm really excited to watch tonights game though. Zags are legit and this is going to be their biggest test this season.

[pgisback]

Now today is gonna be a fun game. I think Gonzaga's experience will be a tough test for Duke.

[escapegoat]

was checking the score, thought this was funny..

https://i.postimg.cc/FH5jmk31/ABFD90-B2-861-D-4-C7-B-9-FC4-9293-EED7-EAEE.png

[pgisback]

Gonzaga dominating. Duke getting a little humbled unless they come back.

[rhynodino]

Gonzaga dominating. Duke getting a little humbled unless they come back.



This is great
I’m a huge duke fan and I kinda expect them to lose tonight’s game. Too many iso as of recent. I love Gonzaga style of play. Rui is going up on the draft boards.
Hope duke responds!



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[pgisback]

Duke making their run. Good game. Williamson is a freak athlete. The speed he moves at for his size is crazy.

[troygoesdeep]

This is great
I’m a huge duke fan and I kinda expect them to lose tonight’s game. Too many iso as of recent. I love Gonzaga style of play. Rui is going up on the draft boards.
Hope duke responds!



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We have a ball game!

[theleica]

Duke making their run. Good game. Williamson is a freak athlete. The speed he moves at for his size is crazy.



He is a freak. RJ is so polished too.


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[ninjacookies]

This is a ballgame.

[ninjacookies]

Nice ballhogging, RJ. Rui dominated both possessions.

[rhynodino]

Barrett gonna try to take the go ahead/tying shot...again again?


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[ninjacookies]

Barrett gonna try to take the go ahead/tying shot...again again?


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Supposedly the number 1 overall pick.....

[pgisback]

Man Barrett struggled at the end

[ninjacookies]

lol gg captain clutch rj.

[rhigh2390]

Love seeing Duke lose.

[rhynodino]

Supposedly the number 1 overall pick.....



Expected (that he took the last shot)
I would have loved to see Reddish take a three.
Great defense by Gonzaga throughout the entire game

Good ball game!


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[ninjacookies]

Expected (that he took the last shot)
I would have loved to see Reddish take a three.
Great defense by Gonzaga throughout the entire game

Good ball game!


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Zion is the best iso player down low in college.

He was the reason the game was tied late.

Mind blowing how RJ decided to be MJ in 3 straight possessions off a dribble drive...all with the same result.

Textbook definition of insanity.


I'm seeing a lot of Kriss Dunn in him. Interpret that as a good or bad thing. I'm just not seeing next level superstar/generational talent.

[brettmik59]

Dook lost. Slow your roll boys.

[IndyKMB]

I cannot recall ever seeing a Duke team play like I saw tonight.

On one end of the floor you saw a Gonzaga team that looked like...a team. Ball movement, good spacing, etc.

On the other end it was one-on-one drive and shoot more often than not for Duke. When did this become a style that Coach K would tolerate? I found myself rooting even harder for the Zags simply because I wanted to see team play rewarded.

[irfuji]

Zion is the best iso player down low in college.

He was the reason the game was tied late.

Mind blowing how RJ decided to be MJ in 3 straight possessions off a dribble drive...all with the same result.

Textbook definition of insanity.


I'm seeing a lot of Kriss Dunn in him. Interpret that as a good or bad thing. I'm just not seeing next level superstar/generational talent.

For the last few minutes I was screaming "Pass the ball Kobe!!!"

I thought Zion in the middle was the best bet this game. He earned the right to get the ball at the end. RJ driving to the rim worked like 1 out of 15 times tonight and RJ in general just ball hogged almost the entire game. Very frustrating to watch.

Full credit to the Zags though. They shot 60%+ in the first half. Hard to beat any team if you let them shoot that well and that many open shots.

Do like that we lost this early though. Humbles the young kids and just drives home that nothing is going to be given and they can't just rely on talent alone.

[ThoseBackPages]

duke lost!

[ninjacookies]

For the last few minutes I was screaming "Pass the ball Kobe!!!"

I thought Zion in the middle was the best bet this game. He earned the right to get the ball at the end. RJ driving to the rim worked like 1 out of 15 times tonight and RJ in general just ball hogged almost the entire game. Very frustrating to watch.

Full credit to the Zags though. They shot 60%+ in the first half. Hard to beat any team if you let them shoot that well and that many open shots.

Do like that we lost this early though. Humbles the young kids and just drives home that nothing is going to be given and they can't just rely on talent alone.


I'm curious on Coach K's thoughts on those final 3 possessions (not his press conference PC reaction, but what he said in the locker room). I can't imagine he drew things up that way. Was frustrating to watch. Rui completely shut him down each time.

[6celtics33]

I like Perkins’ ability to manage the game and keep them calm for the most part. They had good side to side ball movement and flow until they stopped toward the end. Gotta make free throws. If they work that shooter in when he gets back this could be Gonzaga’s best chance.

[therocket]

Rui didn’t start playing basketball until 12 and never played AAU. That’s crazy nowadays

[tazz1213]

Supposedly the number 1 overall pick.....

Kid single-handedly won the World U-19 Championship for Canada while beating Team USA. IF Zion was 6'9"+ and had a wingspan of 7'+ I could see him as a #1 on an NBA team. IMO he is Julius Randle 2.0. A guy who will post 15 7 5. A GREAT role player but hardly THE guy on an NBA team. His jump shot is flat and ugly. This isn't football, he can't just run through people. Also, his vertical is great but all of the 6'9"-7'+ guys are going to put a body on him in the paint.

[felix434]

Zag alum here. Good win for the zags and we’re tested in all three games which will help later. Just happy we finally beat duke. The the last few meetings were blowouts. Rui is still raw but getting better every year. Still at least 2-e yrs away from his peak.

[smalltown]

Zag alum here... Just happy we finally beat duke.

And you should be. People are playing this out as "Duke lost", nah. Gonzaga absolutely won this game. Duke was complacent and not ready for their hustle. But credit where credit is due. Gonzaga earned it.

[tazz1213]

Zag alum here. Good win for the zags and we’re tested in all three games which will help later. Just happy we finally beat duke. The the last few meetings were blowouts. Rui is still raw but getting better every year. Still at least 2-e yrs away from his peak.

They were without Tillie too. Wow, going to be an even tougher out in the tournament.

[WaiverWire]

Kid single-handedly won the World U-19 Championship for Canada while beating Team USA. IF Zion was 6'9"+ and had a wingspan of 7'+ I could see him as a #1 on an NBA team. IMO he is Julius Randle 2.0. A guy who will post 15 7 5. A GREAT role player but hardly THE guy on an NBA team. His jump shot is flat and ugly. This isn't football, he can't just run through people. Also, his vertical is great but all of the 6'9"-7'+ guys are going to put a body on him in the paint.

No offense man, but comparing Zion to Julius Randle is nuts. That's like confusing Stephen Curry and Seth Curry. They are totally different. One is exciting, and the other is just OK.

[tazz1213]

No offense man, but comparing Zion to Julius Randle is nuts. That's like confusing Stephen Curry and Seth Curry. They are totally different. One is exciting, and the other is just OK.

Yes, comparing a NBA veteran to a NCAA kid with 5 games is nuts. You assume what makes Zion exciting in high school and college will translate to the NBA. He will make MILLIONS if he posts 18 9 3 in the NBA (J.R. #'s). These are OK numbers? How that is an insult is beyond me. I am sorry if my comparison isn't to LBJ, like others want him to be, but he has a greater chance of being as productive as Randle(slim) then as a Super Star player in the league(none). Be sure to mortgage the house and buy his Prizm Silvers at $500 at release next year. :)!

[ninjacookies]

Kid single-handedly won the World U-19 Championship for Canada while beating Team USA. IF Zion was 6'9"+ and had a wingspan of 7'+ I could see him as a #1 on an NBA team. IMO he is Julius Randle 2.0. A guy who will post 15 7 5. A GREAT role player but hardly THE guy on an NBA team. His jump shot is flat and ugly. This isn't football, he can't just run through people. Also, his vertical is great but all of the 6'9"-7'+ guys are going to put a body on him in the paint.



How many nba players are exactly in the Barrett mold? A lot.

How many are in Zion's mold?

[tazz1213]

How many nba players are exactly in the Barrett mold? A lot.

How many are in Zion's mold?

My point exactly. What is successful in today's NBA is someone like RJ. Zion became a viral sensation because of his dunking. It would have been great if AND1 started a decade later. Then we could have people on this board buzzing about all the NBA prospects showcased in that series. :doh: He has shown ZERO mid-range or 3 point game at this point. He will have the opportunity in the ACC to show if he can turn that ugly flat jumper into something more.

[WaiverWire]

Yes, comparing a NBA veteran to a NCAA kid with 5 games is nuts. You assume what makes Zion exciting in high school and college will translate to the NBA. He will make MILLIONS if he posts 18 9 3 in the NBA (J.R. #'s). These are OK numbers? How that is an insult is beyond me. I am sorry if my comparison isn't to LBJ, like others want him to be, but he has a greater chance of being as productive as Randle(slim) then as a Super Star player in the league(none). Be sure to mortgage the house and buy his Prizm Silvers at $500 at release next year. :)!

It's just a bad comp. Zion doesn't play anything like Julius Randle. Zion has no problem getting his shot. Julius struggles to get his shot, particularly because his short arms. Zion has better feet and a better handle.

[pgisback]

They compare him to Lebron because his athleticism. They are freak show athletes. Julius Randle is athleitic for his size but has nothing on Zion. Zion is an above the rim player like Lebron which is why he’s averaging 20 ppg on a ridiculous 70% shooting. He’ll be fine in the NBA, just gotta get a shot or he won’t last long once the athleticism dwindles a bit.

[ThoseBackPages]

2019 Prizm is gonna be L-I-T-!

[tazz1213]

It's just a bad comp. Zion doesn't play anything like Julius Randle. Zion has no problem getting his shot. Julius struggles to get his shot, particularly because his short arms. Zion has better feet and a better handle.

Wait, so Randle struggles to get off his shot because of his short arms? He is 6'9" with a 7' wingspan and Zion is 6'7" with a 6'10" wingspan. Plus, 6 games into his college career he has shown better feet and handle then Randle too? People sure do have a short memory. 6 games into Randle's Freshmen year at Kentucky he was averaging 20pts and 14 rebs on 68% shooting. This thread, along with the other Zion thread, is going to be a fun read later this year when ACC play starts.

[pgisback]

Wait, so Randle struggles to get off his shot because of his short arms? He is 6'9" with a 7' wingspan and Zion is 6'7" with a 6'10" wingspan. Plus, 6 games into his college career he has shown better feet and handle then Randle too? People sure do have a short memory. 6 games into Randle's Freshmen year at Kentucky he was averaging 20pts and 14 rebs on 68% shooting. This thread, along with the other Zion thread, is going to be a fun read later this year when ACC play starts.

Zion also has 16 blocks and 9 steals. Randle had 5 blocks and 0 steals in his first 6 games. Short memory has nothing to do with it. Zion is far more athletic and can do a lot more than Randle could do on the court. He'll be dominant all year long. No one can out match him athletically. Heck against Gonzaga he had 22/10 with 4 blocks and 2 steals. Dudes on a different level.

[Noles939913]

Z-Bo who rarely dunks>>>Z-Bo clone who can actually throw down

FSU will win the ACC

[BOboy]

Zion hasn't had to develop a jumper, he has very soft hands and amazing ball handling skills, he is able to get to the rim at will. With his soft hands he will have no trouble developing a jumper.

[WaiverWire]

Wait, so Randle struggles to get off his shot because of his short arms? He is 6'9" with a 7' wingspan and Zion is 6'7" with a 6'10" wingspan. Plus, 6 games into his college career he has shown better feet and handle then Randle too? People sure do have a short memory. 6 games into Randle's Freshmen year at Kentucky he was averaging 20pts and 14 rebs on 68% shooting. This thread, along with the other Zion thread, is going to be a fun read later this year when ACC play starts.

Google "Julius Randle short arms" and you will find articles that will help you. They explain that Julius Randle only has a 6'11'' wing span, which is small for an NBA power forward. Randle is an undersized power forward. Zion, with his good handle and fluidity, could easily play multiple positions at the next level, including the shooting guard and small forward. Randle doesn't have that versatility.

[jcardstore]

Google "Julius Randle short arms" and you will find articles that will help you. They explain that Julius Randle only has a 6'11'' wing span, which is small for an NBA power forward. Randle is an undersized power forward. Zion, with his good handle and fluidity, could easily play multiple positions at the next level, including the shooting guard and small forward. Randle doesn't have that versatility.

Zion absolutely CANNOT play NBA SG... :doh::doh::doh::doh: that's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen about Zion anywhere.

He has a decent handle for a guy his size but y'all are talking about him like he's out here crossing dudes like Kyrie.

Other than being one of the most ridiculous athletes we've ever seen take the court what else about Zion stands out? He doesn't have a jumpshot, he doesn't have elite court vision, you wouldn't describe him as a cerebral player.

Name me a guy who's been an elite NBA player but can't shoot. You could say Ben Simmons but he's an elite facilitator and has excellent court vision with great speed and size.

[LC2nine10]

Google "Julius Randle short arms" and you will find articles that will help you. They explain that Julius Randle only has a 6'11'' wing span, which is small for an NBA power forward. Randle is an undersized power forward. Zion, with his good handle and fluidity, could easily play multiple positions at the next level, including the shooting guard and small forward. Randle doesn't have that versatility.
They compared him to Blake Griffin and Kevin love in arm size to torso ratio.
Good thing no one drafted any of em.

[WaiverWire]

Zion absolutely CANNOT play NBA SG... :doh::doh::doh::doh: that's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen about Zion anywhere.

He has a decent handle for a guy his size but y'all are talking about him like he's out here crossing dudes like Kyrie.

Other than being one of the most ridiculous athletes we've ever seen take the court what else about Zion stands out? He doesn't have a jumpshot, he doesn't have elite court vision, you wouldn't describe him as a cerebral player.

Name me a guy who's been an elite NBA player but can't shoot. You could say Ben Simmons but he's an elite facilitator and has excellent court vision with great speed and size.

I think Zion will play small forward in the NBA. He will be able to guard 2's, 3's, and 4's. If he plays offense as a 3, but can defend multiple positions, his "true position" is a bit of a blur.

Draymond Green is an elite NBA player but can't shoot.

Allen Iverson was an elite NBA player but didn't shoot well, yet made up for it by taking more shots

[jcardstore]

Draymond Green is an elite NBA player but can't shoot.


Draymond is not an elite NBA player. He's a very good player, yes but without HOF talent surrounding him he does nothing. He had 1 year of "elite" play (15-16) but how does he look now?


Allen Iverson was an elite NBA player but didn't shoot well, yet made up for it by taking more shots

This is just getting silly now. Iverson had an excellent midrange jumper, he was a mid/low 30% 3pt shooter which isn't great but it's not horrible. I really can't believe that you just tried to compare Zion to AI as a shooter

The way you're talking about Zion is that he's going to be this massive superstar and the centerpiece of some championship team.

No player ever has been a superstar centerpiece of a championship team and couldn't shoot. Period.

[theLUCKYshow]

Russell Westbrook can't shoot and he's elite. (tip-toes away)

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[WaiverWire]

This is just getting silly now. Iverson had an excellent midrange jumper, he was a mid/low 30% 3pt shooter which isn't great but it's not horrible. I really can't believe that you just tried to compare Zion to AI as a shooter

No player ever has been a superstar centerpiece of a championship team and couldn't shoot. Period.

Respectfully, you are wrong. Allen Iverson was a poor shooter. "Shooting percentage is the reason why other advanced stats don’t like Iverson – he wasn’t a very good shooter, but he took a ton of shots. He shot the ball 25.5 times a game that year and only made 42% of them." Iverson was 31% from 3 point land, which is also objectively not good.

[6celtics33]

I’d hardly call Iverson’s team a championship team. The East was worse then than what Lebron has picked on for the past 5 years.

[smalltown]

I think Zion will play small forward in the NBA. He will be able to guard 2's, 3's, and 4's. If he plays offense as a 3, but can defend multiple positions, his "true position" is a bit of a blur.

I'm not sure he'll really be able to defend the 2. He won't get killed on switches. But he'll really only be able to defend the 3-5. And even then some of the true 5s would eat him alive. He's a 3-4 in the NBA for sure.

[6celtics33]

Kobe couldn’t shoot for his volume but he had plenty of bigs to rebound his chucks. I guess that’s what you need to neutralize it.

But I generally agree with JC

Not that anyone cares

[pgisback]

Even if he ended up like Randle in the NBA that's not a bad thing. I just think he has the athleticism to do things defensively that Randle can't which makes him much more effective on the court. If and only if he can develop a consistent jump shot would he have a chance to become a mega superstar player. But he's one of the best college players I've seen. He had a play against Hachimura where he crossed him over at the 3 pt line and didn't even take another dribble and got to the hoop for a layup. It was ridiculous. His athletic ability is crazy, especially if he thins down a bit.

[ninjacookies]

Zion absolutely CANNOT play NBA SG... :doh::doh::doh::doh: that's one of the most ridiculous things I've seen about Zion anywhere.

He has a decent handle for a guy his size but y'all are talking about him like he's out here crossing dudes like Kyrie.

Other than being one of the most ridiculous athletes we've ever seen take the court what else about Zion stands out? He doesn't have a jumpshot, he doesn't have elite court vision, you wouldn't describe him as a cerebral player.

Name me a guy who's been an elite NBA player but can't shoot. You could say Ben Simmons but he's an elite facilitator and has excellent court vision with great speed and size.

He definitely won't be a 2. But...that does not mean a team won't probably mix him in as a point-forward in situations considering he has upper level handles. No, he's not Curry or Kyrie, but he could definitely take it up the court when need be.

At this point I'd compare his offensive game to Ben Simmons (with exception of the generational passing), with a much bigger strength and speed advantage. His first step explosiveness is insane.

If Simmons shoots that efficiently for his career being a larger man 'capped' without a jumper, I don't think Zion will have much of an issue getting buckets if he's a primary scorer on a team. He's shown several flashes of being able to drain the 3. It's not like he's completely scared to shoot out there. Why settle for outside shots if he's that good imposing his will down low?


http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/zion-williamson-scouting-report-duke-star-can-bring-more-than-big-dunks-to-nba/qeb068q6oasj1eebzpknq5tuj

Offensively, he's got everything you really look for outside of a consistent jumper. Everything.

And he's definitely a great defender. 2.7 blocks and 1.5 steals per game. His strength and timing gives him great advantages over most. The biggest questionmark is how will he do defending the perimeter.


It's funny the jumper thing keeps coming up, especially considering Barrett's biggest struggle coming from high school is his lack of consistent shooting.



Soooo....if I'm getting this right, the people in the RJ camp in this thread are touting an inefficient .408 fg shooting pg as a polished top tier prospect, and saying an ultra efficient hyper athletic 4 is overrated?


Okay.

I'm still seeing Kris Dunn vs. a possible superstar. It's fine if a team wants to settle for 'safety' or mediocrity, but Zion can be the homerun ball that could transform a franchise for the next decade.

[PKIPP]

He definitely won't be a 2. But...that does not mean a team won't probably mix him in as a point-forward in situations considering he has upper level handles. No, he's not Curry or Kyrie, but he could definitely take it up the court when need be.

At this point I'd compare his offensive game to Ben Simmons (with exception of the generational passing), with a much bigger strength and speed advantage. His first step explosiveness is insane.

If Simmons shoots that efficiently for his career being a larger man 'capped' without a jumper, I don't think Zion will have much of an issue getting buckets if he's a primary scorer on a team. He's shown several flashes of being able to drain the 3. It's not like he's completely scared to shoot out there. Why settle for outside shots if he's that good imposing his will down low?


http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/zion-williamson-scouting-report-duke-star-can-bring-more-than-big-dunks-to-nba/qeb068q6oasj1eebzpknq5tuj

Offensively, he's got everything you really look for outside of a consistent jumper. Everything.

And he's definitely a great defender. 2.7 blocks and 1.5 steals per game. His strength and timing gives him great advantages over most. The biggest questionmark is how will he do defending the perimeter.


It's funny the jumper thing keeps coming up, especially considering Barrett's biggest struggle coming from high school is his lack of consistent shooting.



Soooo....if I'm getting this right, the people in the RJ camp in this thread are touting an inefficient .408 fg shooting pg as a polished top tier prospect, and saying an ultra efficient hyper athletic 4 is overrated?


Okay.

I'm still seeing Kris Dunn vs. a possible superstar. It's fine if a team wants to settle for 'safety' or mediocrity, but Zion can be the homerun ball that could transform a franchise for the next decade.


You nailed it imo.

[BOboy]

Duke vs Yale in 15 minutes on ESPN.

[ninjacookies]

Not entirely sure that this Duke squad will win it all this year.

Their defense is quite suspect.

[aaron2]

Not entirely sure that this Duke squad will win it all this year.

Their defense is quite suspect.

Defense will come I think, this is the first time in a few years Duke has been able to play man so I think they are still working out some kinks.

Worst comes to worst they will just switch to the Cuse 2-3 Zone.

What I am worried about is Duke losing because they build a lead and then just let RJ shoot whatever he wants.

[ninjacookies]

What I am worried about is Duke losing because they build a lead and then just let RJ shoot whatever he wants.

You ain't lying. He's reminding me of a college Westbrook minus the triple doubles.

Talented for sure, but his shot selection is mediocre at best. I'm surprised Coach K has given him the green light like that.

[aaron2]

You ain't lying. He's reminding me of a college Westbrook minus the triple doubles.

Talented for sure, but his shot selection is mediocre at best. I'm surprised Coach K has given him the green light like that.

What I've noticed about Coach K since he really started bringing in one-and-done players (Kyrie Irving being the first one that comes to mind) is that he lets them make mistakes earlier in the year.

Typically by the time conference play starts he has the team playing how they should or they will see their time reduced, although I can't imagine him ever not wanting RJ on the floor.

RJ is an interesting case for Duke because while I don't think he is the most talented player (Zion would be my choice), he is the most vocal on the team, and probably the default leader on the court.

Duke does have Bolden, but he has never been the focal point on the team, and is simply an older forward who will give you 8-8 and a block on an average day.

Ideally, Tre Jones takes more of leadership role and at least controls who gets their shot and where.

[ninjacookies]

What I've noticed about Coach K since he really started bringing in one-and-done players (Kyrie Irving being the first one that comes to mind) is that he lets them make mistakes earlier in the year.

Typically by the time conference play starts he has the team playing how they should or they will see their time reduced, although I can't imagine him ever not wanting RJ on the floor.

RJ is an interesting case for Duke because while I don't think he is the most talented player (Zion would be my choice), he is the most vocal on the team, and probably the default leader on the court.

Duke does have Bolden, but he has never been the focal point on the team, and is simply an older forward who will give you 8-8 and a block on an average day.

Ideally, Tre Jones takes more of leadership role and at least controls who gets their shot and where.


Good take.

RJ has looked much better these last few weeks. But the conclusion to the Gonzaga game still sticks out like a sore thumb in my mind. Could just be the inexperience of an eager freshman, but that was a severe lapse in judgement...3 consecutive possessions.

[aaron2]

Good take.

RJ has looked much better these last few weeks. But the conclusion to the Gonzaga game still sticks out like a sore thumb in my mind. Could just be the inexperience of an eager freshman, but that was a severe lapse in judgement...3 consecutive possessions.

Funny enough, that was the one Duke game I missed this year lol.

Watching the replay though it was clear he was playing RW-Hero Ball.

I think if Duke needs points late just give it to Zion down low and let him score, or get fouled. Not a lot of players out there that can hang with him in the paint.

[tazz1213]

They have had back to back bad first halves against inferior opponents (Hartford and Yale). A bad half in the ACC, especially on the road, will lead to a loss. Also, Barrett is definitely the better overall player. I mean unless you think Zion will simply push around guys in the paint in the NBA. He is not a good free throw shooter and he has an absolutely flat and ugly 3 point shot( 2 of 15 so far this year). As of the 10-minute mark today he has not hit a SINGLE jump shot in his last 5 games. You may knock RJ, and even Reddish, but they are extremely confident in their outside game. Zion treats the ball on the perimeter like a hot potato. Trivia question: Who was the last player to sweep EVERY major High School award like RJ did last year?

[ninjacookies]

Funny enough, that was the one Duke game I missed this year lol.

Watching the replay though it was clear he was playing RW-Hero Ball.

I think if Duke needs points late just give it to Zion down low and let him score, or get fouled. Not a lot of players out there that can hang with him in the paint.

The fact he didn't get a single touch the final minute was mind blowing.

Especially because he's almost guaranteed to get a trip to the line when he's posting up down low.

[aaron2]

The fact he didn't get a single touch the final minute was mind blowing.

Especially because he's almost guaranteed to get a trip to the line when he's posting up down low.

That's the bad part about having too many 5 Star Recruits.

RJ needs the ball in his hands at all times. Zion functions well playing off ball but needs more touches per game IMO.

Cam Reddish would be the best player on almost any other team in the country and he's an afterthought most games.

Joey Baker re-classified to play on this team and it looks like he just might take the redshirt and sit this year out.

Quite a few mouths to feed out there.

[ninjacookies]

That's the bad part about having too many 5 Star Recruits.

RJ needs the ball in his hands at all times. Zion functions well playing off ball but needs more touches per game IMO.

Cam Reddish would be the best player on almost any other team in the country and he's an afterthought most games.

Joey Baker re-classified to play on this team and it looks like he just might take the redshirt and sit this year out.

Quite a few mouths to feed out there.

Yeah, definitely. Coach K's going to have to make some tough decisions down the stretch of the year, especially come mid january when their schedule really picks up.

[BOboy]

Duke vs. Boston College on ESPN.

[ninjacookies]

Duke vs. Boston College on ESPN.

I'll be tuning in. Will most likely be bloodshed, but should be a couple of 45 inch vertical dunks to make it worthwhile.

[tazz1213]

I'll be tuning in. Will most likely be bloodshed, but should be a couple of 45 inch vertical dunks to make it worthwhile.

+23.5 looking good so far. But it could easily be a -30 for Duke in the second half. Duke is absolutely horrible from anything outside of the paint. I just don't see them hoisting the NCAA Championship trophy this year.

[ninjacookies]

+23.5 looking good so far. But it could easily be a -30 for Duke in the second half. Duke is absolutely horrible from anything outside of the paint. I just don't see them hoisting the NCAA Championship trophy this year.

Duke looks absolutely terrible shooting tonight. Like ridiculously bad. That's why I can't quite put them as some major favorite to win it all. Especially against a potentially good defense team like Gonzaga or Tennessee.

[tazz1213]

Duke looks absolutely terrible shooting tonight. Like ridiculously bad. That's why I can't quite put them as some major favorite to win it all. Especially against a potentially good defense team like Gonzaga or Tennessee.

Have to add Virginia to that list. The rematch on Saturday should be interesting. Virginia lost by 2 at Cameron while shooting 17% from 3 ( they shoot 40% from 3 as a team).

[pgisback]

Scottie Pippen just said Zion is the best NBA prospect since jordan, lol. And confirmed a better prospect than lebron.

[tazz1213]

Scottie Pippen just said Zion is the best NBA prospect since jordan, lol. And confirmed a better prospect than lebron.
Oh, I didn't know Pippen is Nostradamus.

[asujbl]

Scottie Pippen just said Zion is the best NBA prospect since jordan, lol. And confirmed a better prospect than lebron.

Jordan wasn’t the best prospect in his own Draft

Hakeem earned that. He was better

Jordan is better at the end of the day but let’s no be revisionist here

[pgisback]

I didn’t say it. That’s what Scottie said

[asujbl]

I didn’t say it. That’s what Scottie said

Oh I know

Scottie says a lot of stupid stuff

[pgisback]

Yea, Scottie’s lost it.

[tazz1213]

I didn’t say it. That’s what Scottie said

I have learned to fade a LOT of what former players have to say. They are really no better at predicting the future than we are.

[ninjacookies]

Yeah, Scottie also said Lebron is/was better than Jordan (or something to that effect).

But I do think the hype for Zion is right up there with Lebron in '03. Not entirely the same, since Lebron was having his high school games aired way before Youtube and Twitter were mainstream things. But I think the hysteria and premature anointing (THE next) treatment is pretty similar.


Biggest thing with Zion is the element of the unknown. People try to force comparisons, but there's no direct comparison. You can take bits and pieces of certain guys that remind you either of his build/athleticism/style, but he's such a unique situation because of his attribute extremes.

[asujbl]

Zion hype is definitely up there with LeBron because of aize

I’d say he’s the most hyped since Durant...

Although ironically he might be the most hyped since Oden since people forget what a beast he was starting at age like 15

[tazz1213]

Yeah, Scottie also said Lebron is/was better than Jordan (or something to that effect).

But I do think the hype for Zion is right up there with Lebron in '03. Not entirely the same, since Lebron was having his high school games aired way before Youtube and Twitter were mainstream things. But I think the hysteria is pretty real.


Biggest thing with Zion is the element of the unknown. People try to force comparisons, but there's no direct comparison. You can take bits and pieces of certain guys that remind you either of his build/athleticism/style, but he's such a unique situation because of his attribute extremes.

He is also unique in that he is averaging NO MORE than 1 jumper made a game for the entire season. Again, the people who assume he will be able to score in the paint, at will, in the NBA will be disappointed. Who on the court for BC is a NBA player? No one. Who on the court for a crappy Cavs team is an NBA player? everyone

[ninjacookies]

Although ironically he might be the most hyped since Oden since people forget what a beast he was starting at age like 15

Don't you dare put that voodoo on him.

[asujbl]

Don't you dare put that voodoo on him.

My bad

I’m just old enough to remember when Oden was the lock, 100%, #1 pick in the 2006 draft had he been eligible under that CBA

Dude was on the cover of Slam at like age 15

[Cavaliercards]

If he evolves his game he will be fine.

[ninjacookies]

He is also unique in that he is averaging NO MORE than 1 jumper made a game for the entire season. Again, the people who assume he will be able to score in the paint, at will, in the NBA will be disappointed. Who on the court for BC is a NBA player? No one. Who on the court for a crappy Cavs team is an NBA player? everyone

I think the same people said the same thing about Ben Simmons. He seems to have no problem scoring in the NBA, and he's not even the primary scorer on his team.

Zion is quicker, has a better first step, can jump higher, and is vastly stronger with a much bigger base. We'll see how this plays out. But barring a catastrophic injury that hinders his top 3 percentile athleticism, I'm not seeing ANY issue with him scoring in the NBA. His free throws need improvement, obviously.

[ninjacookies]

My bad

I’m just old enough to remember when Oden was the lock, 100%, #1 pick in the 2006 draft had he been eligible under that CBA

Dude was on the cover of Slam at like age 15

I do too. It still hurts. Portland could have had Durant.


Never forget.

[pgisback]

Lot of truth to that. Oden was super hyped. I remember that. Also he looked like he was 40 playing college ball.

[tazz1213]

I think the same people said the same thing about Ben Simmons. He seems to have no problem scoring in the NBA, and he's not even the primary scorer on his team.

Zion is quicker, has a better first step, can jump higher, and is vastly stronger with a much bigger base. We'll see how this plays out. But barring a catastrophic injury that hinders his top 3 percentile athleticism, I'm not seeing ANY issue with him scoring in the NBA. His free throws need improvement, obviously.

Don't forget that non-existant mid-range to long-range jumper.

[ninjacookies]

Don't forget that non-existant mid-range to long-range jumper.

Again, Ben Simmons. When has he ever had one? At least Zion isn't afraid for his life to shoot a 3. He just doesn't carelessly force them up because he knows he can get buckets at a <%60 clip down low.

[asujbl]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2019/1/8/18158691/zion-williamson-duke-freshman-stats-impact-nba-draft-2019

[tazz1213]

Again, Ben Simmons. When has he ever had one?

He is definitely NOT the basketball player Simmons is.

[ninjacookies]

He is definitely NOT the basketball player Simmons is.

Now you're bringing peripherals into the conversation. That's not the point at all. Simmons gets buckets even with a much sloppier offensive game that's all limited to within 5-7 feet. Even when the defense knows it's coming.

Zion will have no issue. And that's already assuming that Zion has no ability to improve or develop any kind of a jumper. Which is quite premature.

[ninjacookies]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2019/1/8/18158691/zion-williamson-duke-freshman-stats-impact-nba-draft-2019

You stop it with actual facts and statistics.

We all know the only thing he does is dunks.

[pgisback]

Now you're bringing peripherals into the conversation. That's not the point at all. Simmons gets buckets even with a much sloppier offensive game that's all limited to within 5-7 feet. Even when the defense knows it's coming.

Zion will have no issue. And that's already assuming that Zion has no ability to improve or develop any kind of a jumper. Which is quite premature.

That's a good point, like Montrezl Harrell averaging 16 ppg based on just share size and athleticism. Has a terrible jumper. I saw him play a lot in college. Zion is on another level. Can't wait to see what he does. If he develops any kind of consistent jumper he's going to be unstoppable.

[tazz1213]

Now you're bringing peripherals into the conversation. That's not the point at all. Simmons gets buckets even with a much sloppier offensive game that's all limited to within 5-7 feet. Even when the defense knows it's coming.

Zion will have no issue. And that's already assuming that Zion has no ability to improve or develop any kind of a jumper. Which is quite premature.

I am just stating the obvious, and that is Zion is not going to be a primary ball handler for any team. So, he will rely on others to help create his shot. I do not see him taking the ball from the NBA 3 to the rim without a jumper. NO DOUBT he can develop that shot, but I don't see him being a post player in the NBA. Most guys guarding him will be taller and longer and very athletic too. He will without question be a good NBA player.

[ninjacookies]

That's a good point, like Montrezl Harrell averaging 16 ppg based on just share size and athleticism. Has a terrible jumper. I saw him play a lot in college. Zion is on another level. Can't wait to see what he does. If he develops any kind of consistent jumper he's going to be unstoppable.

I think a jumper / more consistent 3 point shot could only help him. But really...what other 270+ pound power forwards with Vince Carter athleticism, speed of a pg, and the strength of an ox do NBA PF's currently have to contend with? Not many. He'll most likely take what the defense gives him his rookie year...which will be a lot.

[ninjacookies]

I am just stating the obvious, and that is Zion is not going to be a primary ball handler for any team. So, he will rely on others to help create his shot. I do not see him taking the ball from the NBA 3 to the rim without a jumper. NO DOUBT he can develop that shot, but I don't see him being a post player in the NBA. Most guys guarding him will be taller and longer and very athletic too. He will without question be a good NBA player.

I do agree his game will eventually have to evolve. Just like Blake Griffin. Especially if he wants to reach that top level. It's definitely not impossible. But him 'settling' as a Ben Simmons type offensive player probably won't do well for his long term outlook.

Though a much less athletic Zach Randolph made a pretty darn good and lengthy career banging down low.

Zion has the ability to be quite a good 2 way player though. People don't talk enough about his defense. He's a dog on the floor.

[ninjacookies]

Reddish having one of them nights.

[asujbl]

You stop it with actual facts and statistics.

We all know the only thing he does is dunks.

So I’ve been told by Blowout experts

[tazz1213]

I do agree his game will eventually have to evolve. Just like Blake Griffin. Especially if he wants to reach that top level. It's definitely not impossible. But him 'settling' as a Ben Simmons type offensive player probably won't do well for his long term outlook.

Though a much less athletic Zach Randolph made a pretty darn good and lengthy career banging down low.

Zion has the ability to be quite a good 2 way player though. People don't talk enough about his defense. He's a dog on the floor.

I have suggested he will be Randle 2.0. A guy who will average 18-20 and 9-10 rebounds. Is that worth MILLIONS ?!?!? Damn right. Is that a transcendent player? no.

[ninjacookies]

I have suggested he will be Randle 2.0. A guy who will average 18-20 and 9-10 rebounds. Is that worth MILLIONS ?!?!? Damn right. Is that a transcendent player? no.

I think the chances of him being Randle 2.0 are the same chances Barrett has of being Dejuonte Murray 2.0.

If Zion starts his career averaging 10ppg I will eat my shorts on youtube live.

[tazz1213]

I think the chances of him being Randle 2.0 are the same chances Barrett has of being Dejuonte Murray 2.0.

If Zion starts his career averaging 10ppg I will eat my shorts on youtube live.

Considering he will be playing for a cellar dweller, I would be shocked if he doesn't average at least 15-18 points his rookie year. Although, if Phoenix gets him there are already multiple guys who they can go to for scoring. If it is the Knicks, he might shoot 20+ times a game! LOL

[ninjacookies]

Considering he will be playing for a cellar dweller,

The point of the draft and lottery picks, yes? :)


I think Phoenix would probably be the worst destination for his hobby outlook, since they do have quite a bit of good young talent. However, I kind of like the way Phoenix is rebuilding even if they're tanking again this year. They're just a few more pieces away from becoming something of note, imo.

New York or Cleveland would set the world ablaze. We all know how much the Cleveland faithful have been waiting for their next messiah replacement.

[rman112]

Really impressed by Tre Jones. Looks better than Tyus.