LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[cardsdownunder]

Mates, i recently came across some troubling news for some LeBron Exquisite rookies /99. I know many collectors are not aware or up-to-date on the scambags of the hobby, so please forward these news for those looking to buy LeBron exquisite rookies!!

The first attachment is 87/99. It was owned by a collector for a long time then sold in March 2013 to someone on the forums. It reappeared with much nicer edges!!! See the damage on the black border on the left/right ungraded, then nice and clean on the BGS 9 grade.

THere is also an issue with this PSA 8 LeBron 40/99.

https://images.psacard.com/s3/cu-psa/cardfacts/2003-ud-exquisite-collection-autograph-patch-78-lebron-james-67745.jpg?h=1000

Look at the left on the black under the UD logo --- you can see a black marker line. I saw this card around 10 years ago in person and it had a large white scratch on it in that same place --- now it is gone.... I have a picture of it ungraded but cannot upload for some reason --- will keep attempting.


While I talk about this card I also want to remind people about old scambags --- lebron 53/99 was trimmed -- see old owner talk about it here - http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14471&view=previous&sid=df92f99b4e8d0df8d3a213c85d2d23ad

There is also some that are formerly grade BGS 9 but were later damaged. Card # 74/99 and 64/99 are examples of such.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130413&d=1362028128

^^ see bottom left edge


Then there is #42/99 which I can't find old BO thread on, but was owned by a BO member. The patch window has slits on the top left and bottom right --- was graded Authentic by BGS. Haven't seen this one around in a while --- had a weak 3color patch and always suspected a donkey to try to fake the patch! Hope this isn't the sad case.

Also wanted to say card #63/99 was a one-color patch --- hopefully no one altered it. Just FYI/PSA that it was a one-clr -- I have no knowledge of it being faked... yet...

I don't have photograph proof of trimming for #75/99 and #61/99, but i can tell those are trimmed and know BGS graded them as altered... Public Service Announcement in case they are for sale or PSA grades them!!!

There is only one on ebay i think that is #50/99. This one has yellowing on parts of the card and faded auto --- but is not really advertised as such.....

Be better card community and help stop the scambags!!

[UltimateDeron]

I'd really like to see a video of a card of that magnitude getting trimmed. I don't see how they don't mess up or damage the card more.

[bdrr]

I'd really like to see a video of a card of that magnitude getting trimmed. I don't see how they don't mess up or damage the card more.

It's like the Wagner story. The grading companies know the card is trimmed, but because of the iconic nature of the item they pass it anyway.

[DevinKurant]

Great post OP!!!!!!!!!

You know there is a Lebron rpa tracker on buynicecards.com

One of the other BO members recently helped him improve his website and it’s interface is top notch. Check it out.

It appears that the owner, Eric Bitz, actually owns number 87/99 so he probably won’t appreciate this post, lol. I’m not insinuating that he trimmed it; perhaps he bought it trimmed. Or perhaps it’s an rpa miracle and the card regenerated its edges. Kind of like how Lebron regenerates every team he goes to. [emoji441]⤵️

[ThoseBackPages]

Great post OP!!!!!!!!!

You know there is a Lebron rpa tracker on buynicecards.com

One of the other BO members recently helped him improve his website and it’s interface is top notch. Check it out.

It appears that the owner, Eric Bitz, actually owns number 87/99 so he probably won’t appreciate this post, lol. I’m not insinuating that he trimmed it; perhaps he bought it trimmed. Or perhaps it’s an rpa miracle and the card regenerated its edges. Kind of like how Lebron regenerates every team he goes to. [emoji441]⤵️

oh my!!!!!!

[DevinKurant]

oh my!!!!!!



Wtf!?! Eric at buynicecards also owns 64 and 74. So 64 used to be a 9 and it’s now a 6? He cut out a 9 and damaged it so it’s a 6 now? That doesn’t make sense.

But 74 is still a BGS 9. Another example of card regeneration!!! Lightning strikes twice! ⚡️ ✌️


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[Lee42]

Kind of like how Lebron regenerates every team he goes to. [emoji441]⤵️

Much like his hairline regenerates multiple times during the season.......

[DevinKurant]

Much like his hairline regenerates multiple times during the season.......



Lol. You win. Yours was better.


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[rookies]

A few high end other members I know have huge problems with Buynicecards. The guy has trimmed countless cards KD ones included.
The 74 was my card. It went straight to him in a trade. It graded originally a 7.5. He then screwed me over on 3k in a trade (but who cares). That said I have lots of pictures of the 74/99 lebron and the card is about as altered as can be. I then got a picture a month later seeing it in a 9 case. Pretty funny. Countless other lebrons he has are altered I have heard. Mcghaee21 posted about this as well nobody cared to comment because buynicecards has such a following but who cares. I would feel sick if someone paid 200k for a fake card I knew was fake and I didnt speak up. So there ya have it.

[the27guy]

A few high end other members I know have huge problems with Buynicecards. The guy has trimmed countless cards KD ones included.
The 74 was my card. It went straight to him in a trade. It graded originally a 7.5. He then screwed me over on 3k in a trade (but who cares). That said I have lots of pictures of the 74/99 lebron and the card is about as altered as can be. I then got a picture a month later seeing it in a 9 case. Pretty funny. Countless other lebrons he has are altered I have heard. Mcghaee21 posted about this as well nobody cared to comment because buynicecards has such a following but who cares. I would feel sick if someone paid 200k for a fake card I knew was fake and I didnt speak up. So there ya have it.

Very serious accusations.

This would surprise me very much, but none of us are beyond reproach in the hobby.

Was there no step between you and Eric on #74? The card didn’t first land with somebody else?

[DevinKurant]

A few high end other members I know have huge problems with Buynicecards. The guy has trimmed countless cards KD ones included.
The 74 was my card. It went straight to him in a trade. It graded originally a 7.5. He then screwed me over on 3k in a trade (but who cares). That said I have lots of pictures of the 74/99 lebron and the card is about as altered as can be. I then got a picture a month later seeing it in a 9 case. Pretty funny. Countless other lebrons he has are altered I have heard. Mcghaee21 posted about this as well nobody cared to comment because buynicecards has such a following but who cares. I would feel sick if someone paid 200k for a fake card I knew was fake and I didnt speak up. So there ya have it.



Thanks for speaking up. And not to start anything, but most people take Mcghee21 with a grain of salt. He started a witch hunt on a panini employee for God’s sake. Then factor in his multiple other complaints about BGS grading and the other hundreds of combative remarks he litters the threads with. Full disclosure, he welcomed me to BO by accusing me of scamming him on a eBay return. He never told me what the card was nor would he accept my apology..or tell me HOW i scammed him. Sorry for the digression.

[the27guy]

Thanks for speaking up. And not to start anything, but most people take Mcghee21 with a grain of salt. He started a witch hunt on a panini employee for God’s sake. Then factor in his multiple other complaints about BGS grading and the other hundreds of combative remarks he litters the threads with. Full disclosure, he welcomed me to BO by accusing me of scamming him on a eBay return. He never told me what the card was nor would he accept my apology..or tell me HOW i scammed him. Sorry for the digression.

He’s also one of the best detectives on BO. I don’t always agree with him, but when he’s made accusations of guys doing shady stuff, he’s been a very valuable resource to the boards.

[DevinKurant]

He’s also one of the best detectives on BO. I don’t always agree with him, but when he’s made accusations of guys doing shady stuff, he’s been a very valuable resource to the boards.



Good to know. I just joined BO 5 months ago. Sampling error on my part. Sorry McGhahee21.


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[the27guy]

Good to know. I just joined BO 5 months ago. Sampling error on my part. Sorry McGhahee21.


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You’re good man. He’s had a few moments that haven’t been pretty. Lol.

[theLUCKYshow]

Woah this thread is much more than I was expecting. Trimming is a big deal. I hope that some answers come from this.

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[rookies]

He’s also one of the best detectives on BO. I don’t always agree with him, but when he’s made accusations of guys doing shady stuff, he’s been a very valuable resource to the boards.

He is. Hes great at that I dont know or focus on anything else but hes very helpful and has real knowledge. Anytime I have talked to him on PM's hes been super helpful. I also cracked the wigginswolf guy for fake patches. I follow all rookies as most know but I really follow the popular ones.

That said I cant confirm anything that people do we dont have a direct video possible haha. Where theres smoke theres fire though. I just wanted to post my .02 on the 74/99 I dont care who cut the card, but the card was cut on the left side. Dont just buy a card do some research if you're dropping 6 figures.

On a side note WATCH OUT FOR GIANNIS NT RPA's. The centering is bad on all the cards. And with him being THE next guy...... do research. I got someone from philippines who sent me a pic of a Giannis I wanted to buy and it looked too perfect on centering almost like the left side was smaller than the right side. It was ungraded I assume because it came back altered and he cut too much.
If anything is taken away from thread its just do research.

[yaoming]

Wow [emoji50]
Cant believe people will do this to
One of the most iconic cards ...

When it comes to exquisites cards, i really dont care about grade, they all have chipping and that s okay

I believe the KD exquisite RPA has its own issue with patch replacement



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[bballcards4days]

[emoji50][emoji848]


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[DajuanWagner]

It's like the Wagner story. The grading companies know the card is trimmed, but because of the iconic nature of the item they pass it anyway.



I disagree with this...……..

[minnesotachill]

The BGS 9 Lebron looks like it was part of a 4-card BGS sub in 2015


1. Lebron Exquisite
2. Bill Russell Exquisite Flashback https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2009-exquisite-collection-flashback-1873119705
3. Kareem Exquisite Flashback - graded BGS 9, then was later bumped to a 9.5
(google search shows it was for sale on buynicecards)
4. Tiger Exquisite

[the27guy]

A few high end other members I know have huge problems with Buynicecards. The guy has trimmed countless cards KD ones included.
The 74 was my card. It went straight to him in a trade.


That said I cant confirm anything that people do we dont have a direct video possible haha. Where theres smoke theres fire though. I just wanted to post my .02 on the 74/99 I dont care who cut the card, but the card was cut on the left side. Dont just buy a card do some research if you're dropping 6 figures.


Rookies,

I have copied and pasted the most crucial things you have said in your past couple of posts above.

You are well known in this hobby. Your opinion really matters. Now, having said that, you can't undo what you've posted about Eric (BuyNicecards) up above. You've said it, and I feel like we need to now find out what's happened. This is a delicate situation for several reasons.

From Eric's perspective - I wouldn't want to post in reply to you here because, well, at a minimum, it's damaging to the value of the #74/99 Lebron James Exquisite rookie. If he purchased the card already trimmed, then the value of his card is damaged. And if what you are saying above (that it went straight from you) and then he trimmed it..... That's realllllly bad. Not kind of bad. Really really bad. So it's important that you reiterate or clarify what's happening here. Was there someone else who it went to first? Or did it go straight to Eric? Because somebody trimmed it. Finding out who is important.

My experience with Eric has been positive. I say that despite him winning at every trade we've ever made. If he's not the smartest guy in the room, I don't know who is. But he's been fair with me. So hearing a suggestion that he's been trimming is not something that I'm going to buy without some very compelling evidence.

So, in my opinion, for Eric's sake (or detriment) it's now your responsibility to stake your reputation on this situation. It's that important. If I was in your situation, I would now, in full disclosure and transparency explain every detail of that 74/99.

[chuckerrrr]

Wow!!! Just read the whole thread. Someone trimmed one of these??? Crazy. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of this.


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[AbraCalabro]

Rookies,

I have copied and pasted the most crucial things you have said in your past couple of posts above.

You are well known in this hobby. Your opinion really matters. Now, having said that, you can't undo what you've posted about Eric (BuyNicecards) up above. You've said it, and I feel like we need to now find out what's happened. This is a delicate situation for several reasons.

From Eric's perspective - I wouldn't want to post in reply to you here because, well, at a minimum, it's damaging to the value of the #74/99 Lebron James Exquisite rookie. If he purchased the card already trimmed, then the value of his card is damaged. And if what you are saying above (that it went straight from you) and then he trimmed it..... That's realllllly bad. Not kind of bad. Really really bad. So it's important that you reiterate or clarify what's happening here. Was there someone else who it went to first? Or did it go straight to Eric? Because somebody trimmed it. Finding out who is important.

My experience with Eric has been positive. I say that despite him winning at every trade we've ever made. If he's not the smartest guy in the room, I don't know who is. But he's been fair with me. So hearing a suggestion that he's been trimming is not something that I'm going to buy without some very compelling evidence.

So, in my opinion, for Eric's sake (or detriment) it's now your responsibility to stake your reputation on this situation. It's that important. If I was in your situation, I would now, in full disclosure and transparency explain every detail of that 74/99.

Just curious, is scamming and shilling equally as bad as bad as trimming, or is trimming worse? Because I know for a fact that people can do unsavory things and still be considered good guys in the hobby as long as they service the right people. This has nothing to do with BuyNiceCards by the way, I never had any interaction with him. I'm asking in a general capacity.

[discostu]

Rookies,

I have copied and pasted the most crucial things you have said in your past couple of posts above.

You are well known in this hobby. Your opinion really matters. Now, having said that, you can't undo what you've posted about Eric (BuyNicecards) up above. You've said it, and I feel like we need to now find out what's happened. This is a delicate situation for several reasons.

From Eric's perspective - I wouldn't want to post in reply to you here because, well, at a minimum, it's damaging to the value of the #74/99 Lebron James Exquisite rookie. If he purchased the card already trimmed, then the value of his card is damaged. And if what you are saying above (that it went straight from you) and then he trimmed it..... That's realllllly bad. Not kind of bad. Really really bad. So it's important that you reiterate or clarify what's happening here. Was there someone else who it went to first? Or did it go straight to Eric? Because somebody trimmed it. Finding out who is important.

My experience with Eric has been positive. I say that despite him winning at every trade we've ever made. If he's not the smartest guy in the room, I don't know who is. But he's been fair with me. So hearing a suggestion that he's been trimming is not something that I'm going to buy without some very compelling evidence.

So, in my opinion, for Eric's sake (or detriment) it's now your responsibility to stake your reputation on this situation. It's that important. If I was in your situation, I would now, in full disclosure and transparency explain every detail of that 74/99.

Really weird post.

You want to save what rookies posted, where he seems to state what happened (he traded the card to Eric/buynicecards and poof, the card gets graded and shows a clearly trimmed edge that was not there before). Seems pretty clear to me what rookies is saying. He didn't say he know Eric trimmed it, he simply knows who he traded it to and then it appeared in the same owners hands graded and trimmed.

That said, the onus of "full disclosure and transparency" does not appear to be on rookies, but on Eric. As others have stated, this does not appear to be an isolated incident regarding trimming with Eric.

[smalltown]

people can do unsavory things and still be considered good guys in the hobby as long as they service the right people.

This is very true. Not just in this hobby but in most aspects of life.

[rookies]

Really weird post.

You want to save what rookies posted, where he seems to state what happened (he traded the card to Eric/buynicecards and poof, the card gets graded and shows a clearly trimmed edge that was not there before). Seems pretty clear to me what rookies is saying. He didn't say he know Eric trimmed it, he simply knows who he traded it to and then it appeared in the same owners hands graded and trimmed.

That said, the onus of "full disclosure and transparency" does not appear to be on rookies, but on Eric. As others have stated, this does not appear to be an isolated incident regarding trimming with Eric.

Yeah so pretty much exactly this^. The card is trimmed I want that to be known. I wont post again in this thread no matter who comments I just want that to be known so I feel better about it. Also so people can be aware.

[the27guy]

Really weird post.

Okay.

He didn't say he know Eric trimmed it, he simply knows who he traded it to and then it appeared in the same owners hands graded and trimmed..

Just giving him a chance to clarify. Not all trades are that simple. Maybe this one is. Or maybe there could be other parties. If there aren't then I agree this could potentially be open and shut.


As others have stated, this does not appear to be an isolated incident regarding trimming with Eric.

Who else has said something to that effect?



In no way am I a judge and jury here. But I'd suggest that this is a pretty big deal.

There's heck to pay here. Rookies has a chance to present evidence that should indite somebody. If it's Eric, then so be it. But presenting his name and then saying what he said - when combined with the positive dealings that I have had with Eric - leads me to want absolute clarity around what happened to that Lebron. We deserve that. Asking followup questions is a good thing.

[the27guy]

Yeah so pretty much exactly this^. The card is trimmed I want that to be known. I wont post again in this thread no matter who comments I just want that to be known so I feel better about it. Also so people can be aware.

Simple question Jack. Did you send that directly to Eric?

[starvela]

Just curious, is scamming and shilling equally as bad as bad as trimming, or is trimming worse? Because I know for a fact that people can do unsavory things and still be considered good guys in the hobby as long as they service the right people. This has nothing to do with BuyNiceCards by the way, I never had any interaction with him. I'm asking in a general capacity.


Trimming is a far worse crime and it's not even close...I have seen it all when it comes to trimming, ALL..I can handle shilling as I only bid what I feel i'm comfortable with, and if a rare card that I really want pops up, I also don't worry about it since it would be impossible to stop it, etc. Do I feel at times I paid an extra $1K or more due to a possible shill, yes, but I really wanted the card, so I didn't care and was just happy card came up available for sale...What I do care is trimming!! I'm actually obsessed with this, I'm always measuring and comparing cards best I can on the computer, to make sure it isn't trimmed!! A trimmed card is the worst for me!! After many years of having OCD when it comes to condition/grades, I'm finally starting to warm up/settle to lesser grades and not worry about this sort of stuff...

[discostu]

If I tell someone that I went straight home, I went straight home.

If someone tells me "The 74 was my (rookies) card. It went straight to him (Eric) in a trade." It seems clear enough.

Rookies stated what he needs. If Eric chooses to counter the story, it's on him. Eric has everything to gain here by countering these serious concerns.

So we know that at least 2 Exquisite Lebron rookies that have been trimmed have been in the hands of Eric. One of which was a trade from a member here that went directly to Eric (buynicecards) untrimmed, then appeared graded after being trimmed shortly after the trade.

Now, does any of this show that Eric trimmed the cards? Nope.

Does it look good for Eric or BGS? Nope.

[theLUCKYshow]

Simple question Jack. Did you send that directly to Eric?
The 74 was my card. It went straight to him in a trade.

I interpret this as he sent it directly to Eric.



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[slum22]

If I tell someone that I went straight home, I went straight home.

If someone tells me "The 74 was my (rookies) card. It went straight to him (Eric) in a trade." It seems clear enough.

Rookies stated what he needs. If Eric chooses to counter the story, it's on him. Eric has everything to gain here by countering these serious concerns.

So we know that at least 2 Exquisite Lebron rookies that have been trimmed have been in the hands of Eric. One of which was a trade from a member here that went directly to Eric (buynicecards) untrimmed, then appeared graded after being trimmed shortly after the trade.

Now, does any of this show that Eric trimmed the cards? Nope.

Does it look good for Eric or BGS? Nope.

This is exactly right on to me Adam. I respect your opinion on almost everything cardboard related. I think you are quite educated and fair minded. However, in this situation, while I understand you wanting to be fair to somebody you have had positive dealings with, I believe discostu is correct in his assessment here. I have no skin in the game, as I don't know Rookies and I don't know Eric/BuyNiceCards. I also don't have nearly the capacity to buy a Lebron Exquisite RPA in any form. Nevertheless, I believe Rookies has laid out a pretty clear case that Eric/BuyNiceCards is dealing with trimmed cards in one way or another. At this point, it is up to Eric/BuyNiceCards to present his defense or counter. Like you said, this is a really big deal for our hobby.

[the27guy]

I asked Eric if he bought the card from Rookies. He says that he did not.

He says that he's positive he bought it from another individual as a 9 in 2014.

So, again, either Eric is lying - which I think is unlikely - or maybe there is more to Rookies story.

Either way, my clarification questions for Rookies up above still stand.

On another note, I don't ask these questions lightly guys. Someone is going to come out of this looking very badly. It's important that we know what happened. Stay on topic.

[salthill]

(Bangs gavel repeatedly...)
All right, all right, simmer down back there.

Thank you. Internet Court is now in session. Judge Public A. Mob presiding.

Following the well established rules of the court, Eric has been found Guilty on all charges. Sentencing will commence immediately.

Eric, you may now present your defence...

[chuckerrrr]

When truth comes out this is going to be ugly. I dont know either of these guys personally so Im not going to point any fingers at who did this but it is quite clear the card has been trimmed by the photo’s.


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[NeedChapmans]

Either Eric is lying or Rookies is lying.

Fixed it for you. If we believe you at face value and Eric has voiced his defense ... then either he's lying or Rookies is lying. No gray area, no other possible scenarios. We know the card is trimmed, we know it was done so to greatly increase the value (which it did).

If Rookies would be so kind to provide additional information to the trade, that would go a long way in determining whom to believe.

[minnesotachill]

The Lebron Exquisite #87/99 appears to be submitted to BGS by Eric

If you look at the info I provided in my last post, it looks like the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was graded in the same order was for sale on his website.

I'm sure if you dug enough, you'd find the Tiger Woods card too.

[theLUCKYshow]

If Eric can show he purchased the card as a 9 from another individual, that would certainly help his defense.

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[the27guy]

Fixed it for you. If we believe you at face value and Eric has voiced his defense ... then either he's lying or Rookies is lying. No gray area, no other possible scenarios. We know the card is trimmed, we know it was done so to greatly increase the value (which it did).

If Rookies would be so kind to provide additional information to the trade, that would go a long way in determining whom to believe.

This is why I asked Rookies to clarify. I don't believe Eric is lying. I believe Rookies may be skipping a step to protect a friend. I don't know that. But that's my suspicion.

[NeedChapmans]

This is why I asked Rookies to clarify. I don't believe Eric is lying. I believe Rookies may be skipping a step to protect a friend. I don't know that. But that's my suspicion.

When I was buying up LeBron chrome RC's a few years ago, I spoke with Eric a few times, some back and forth threads about Exquisite value and chrome value and such. I think I may have even purchased a few chrome BGS 10's from him ... (and some PSA 10's too).

No problems whatsoever, great transactions, seems like a nice guy. But that has no bearing on any of this and when it comes to adding $50,000 in value with the touch of a knife, I don't put it past anyone. So we await more details from someone. Otherwise, it's a guessing game.

[slum22]

I asked Eric if he bought the card from Rookies. He says that he did not.

He says that he's positive he bought it from another individual as a 9 in 2014.

So, again, either Eric is lying - which I think is unlikely - or maybe there is more to Rookies story.

Either way, my clarification questions for Rookies up above still stand.

On another note, I don't ask these questions lightly guys. Someone is going to come out of this looking very badly. It's important that we know what happened. Stay on topic.

I don't think anyone has gotten off topic. I think everyone wants clarity on this situation. No one is out here with pitch forks. Rookies has pretty clearly stated his case. We can take you at your word that you have been in conversation with Eric and that he is claiming that someone else owned the card between their ownership.

These are absolutely opposite statements. It seems like both sides should present what evidence they have to back up their positions. Either Eric needs to produce evidence that the card was traded/purchased from someone else or Rookies needs to show evidence that he dealt the card directly to Eric. Maybe I am more OCD about keeping records than most, but if I was trading for/buying/selling a card of this magnitude I am pretty sure I would have some documents (emails, PayPal receipts) pertaining to that transaction. On a much smaller scale, I have purchased a handful of $1k+ cards in my time collecting. If someone asked me, I could produce evidence in the form of email confirmations on everyone of them in minutes. If someone wants to prove their side, it shouldnt' be hard.

[SteveO21]

This is why I asked Rookies to clarify. I don't believe Eric is lying. I believe Rookies may be skipping a step to protect a friend. I don't know that. But that's my suspicion.

and what exactly gives you that suspicion, other than that you've had a few transactions with Eric?

When I was buying up LeBron chrome RC's a few years ago, I spoke with Eric a few times, some back and forth threads about Exquisite value and chrome value and such. I think I may have even purchased a few chrome BGS 10's from him ... (and some PSA 10's too).

No problems whatsoever, great transactions, seems like a nice guy. But that has no bearing on any of this and when it comes to adding $50,000 in value with the touch of a knife, I don't put it past anyone. So we await more details from someone. Otherwise, it's a guessing game.

This.

[rainmaker]

whelp i have the popcorn in microwave!

[DevinKurant]

I've done over $50k in transactions with Rookies. He is the most laid back guy you will ever meet and I highly doubt you hear another word from him on this thread, like he mention above. I would testify all day to his upstanding character and being a purist in the hobby. I would be shocked to my core if he isn't shooting us straight.

[discostu]

I asked Eric if he bought the card from Rookies. He says that he did not.

He says that he's positive he bought it from another individual as a 9 in 2014.

So, again, either Eric is lying - which I think is unlikely - or maybe there is more to Rookies story.

Either way, my clarification questions for Rookies up above still stand.

On another note, I don't ask these questions lightly guys. Someone is going to come out of this looking very badly. It's important that we know what happened. Stay on topic.
Let's for a moment assume that rookies is incorrect and that it wasn't a direct transaction with Eric.

Let's assume for the same moment that when rookies said that instead of a month after he traded away the card it ended up trimmed, in a BGS slab and in the hands of Eric...maybe it was 2-3 months.

In no scenario here is rookies going to look "bad."

We know certain facts right?

- rookies has produced raw images of the card in question showing clear edge damage in his possession.
- Eric (buynicecards) owned the trimmed BGS 9 that rookies' damaged card became.

These seem fairly indisputable. Nothing stating that Eric trimmed the card, or knowingly offering a trimmed card has been implied.

So, Eric (buynicecards) told you that he is positive that he bought the Lebron already graded in 2014. Ok, sounds plausible.

Looking at the BGS serial-numbers (as stated by another user here), the Lebron was graded in 2015...April 24th to be exact.

Here are the 4 cards from that submission:
Card Serial Number: 0008613849
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613850
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Bill Russell/19
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613851
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/25
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613852
Set Name : 2013 Upper Deck Tiger Woods Master Collection
Player Name : Tiger Woods PATCH AU/25/ Exquisite Rookie Patch
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Google any of the 4 cards above and you'll find all 4 in Eric's possession at some point. So sure, we could believe that maybe Eric bought this entire submission after they were graded by whomever the rookies was confused that he traded his Lebron to if it wasn't Eric himself.

None of this looks like rookies has any explaining to do.

Eric on the other hand...well...not sure if the gun is still smoking, but this looks bad. He is positive that he bought the Lebron in question in 2014...when it was graded in 2015. When it was received back from BGS with 3 other cards he owned.
Incorrect Lebron being referenced.

[Siberian13]

Who is Eric and is he a member here that can reply? Why does the27guy have to be is legal representative? Get Eric in here to clear his name and all is good.

[theleica]

How does this happen?

[DevinKurant]

How does this happen?

As someone insinuated; he or she probably damaged the card when cracking it out of the BGS holder.

[AlabamaSlamma]

The BGS 9 Lebron looks like it was part of a 4-card BGS sub in 2015

1. Lebron Exquisite
2. Bill Russell Exquisite Flashback https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2009-exquisite-collection-flashback-1873119705
3. Kareem Exquisite Flashback - graded BGS 9, then was later bumped to a 9.5
(google search shows it was for sale on buynicecards)
4. Tiger Exquisite

The Lebron Exquisite #87/99 appears to be submitted to BGS by Eric

If you look at the info I provided in my last post, it looks like the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was graded in the same order was for sale on his website.

I'm sure if you dug enough, you'd find the Tiger Woods card too.

Let's for a moment assume that rookies is incorrect and that it wasn't a direct transaction with Eric.

Let's assume for the same moment that when rookies said that instead of a month after he traded away the card it ended up trimmed, in a BGS slab and in the hands of Eric...maybe it was 2-3 months.

In no scenario here is rookies going to look "bad."

We know certain facts right?

- rookies has produced raw images of the card in question showing clear edge damage in his possession.
- Eric (buynicecards) owned the trimmed BGS 9 that rookies' damaged card became.

These seem fairly indisputable. Nothing stating that Eric trimmed the card, or knowingly offering a trimmed card has been implied.

So, Eric (buynicecards) told you that he is positive that he bought the Lebron already graded in 2014. Ok, sounds plausible.

Looking at the BGS serial-numbers (as stated by another user here), the Lebron was graded in 2015...April 24th to be exact.

Here are the 4 cards from that submission:
Card Serial Number: 0008613849
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613850
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Bill Russell/19
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613851
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/25
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613852
Set Name : 2013 Upper Deck Tiger Woods Master Collection
Player Name : Tiger Woods PATCH AU/25/ Exquisite Rookie Patch
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Google any of the 4 cards above and you'll find all 4 in Eric's possession at some point. So sure, we could believe that maybe Eric bought this entire submission after they were graded by whomever the rookies was confused that he traded his Lebron to if it wasn't Eric himself.

None of this looks like rookies has any explaining to do.

Eric on the other hand...well...not sure if the gun is still smoking, but this looks bad. He is positive that he bought the Lebron in question in 2014...when it was graded in 2015. When it was received back from BGS with 3 other cards he owned.

The card currently in question is rookies' former LBJ Exquisite RPA serially numbered 74/99. The BGS flip number is 0008145826:

https://buynicecards.com/product/2003-04-lebron-james-upper-deck-exquisite-rc-rookie-patch-auto-99-bgs-9-10

Card Serial Number: 0008145826
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014
Centering Grade : 9.5
Corner Grade : 9.0
Edges Grade : 9.0
Surfaces Grade : 8.5
Autograph Grade 10.0
Final Grade : 9.0

Both of you are referencing grading details for 87/99. These are not the same cards.

[KhalDrogo]

How does this happen?
Either bad job cracking it out or bad job trimming.

Copy 74 is clear as day trimmed. Left edge damage gone and bottom left corner much sharper. If it really used to be a BGS 7.5 like rookies says, it was probably this one:

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card-lookup?item_id=4524354&flag=1

How awesome would it be for BGS to capture an image along the grading process of high-end cards?

[NeedChapmans]

The card currently in question is rookies' former LBJ Exquisite RPA serially numbered 74/99. The BGS flip number is 0008145826:

https://buynicecards.com/product/2003-04-lebron-james-upper-deck-exquisite-rc-rookie-patch-auto-99-bgs-9-10

Card Serial Number: 0008145826
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014
Centering Grade : 9.5
Corner Grade : 9.0
Edges Grade : 9.0
Surfaces Grade : 8.5
Autograph Grade 10.0
Final Grade : 9.0

Both of you are referencing grading details for 87/99. These are not the same cards.

"Eric on the other hand...well...not sure if the gun is still smoking"

Womp Womp. :doh:

[discostu]

The card currently in question is rookies' former LBJ Exquisite RPA serially numbered 74/99. The BGS flip number is 0008145826:

https://buynicecards.com/product/2003-04-lebron-james-upper-deck-exquisite-rc-rookie-patch-auto-99-bgs-9-10

Card Serial Number: 0008145826
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014
Centering Grade : 9.5
Corner Grade : 9.0
Edges Grade : 9.0
Surfaces Grade : 8.5
Autograph Grade 10.0
Final Grade : 9.0

Both of you are referencing grading details for 87/99. These are not the same cards.

I stand corrected and have noted such in my post.

The submission for this Lebron was
Card Serial Number: 0008145826
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014

Card Serial Number: 0008145827
Set Name : 2009-10 Playoff National Treasures Century Gold
Player Name : James Harden JSY AU
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014

Card Serial Number: 0008145828
Set Name : 1986-87 Fleer
Player Name : Michael Jordan RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014

The Jordan seemed to not meet the requirements.

[Pathora]

Not sure why Beckett/PSA don't copy the serial number of a card when they grade stuff. Might discourage altering of some cards and could catch massive changes to cards edges/corners.

[the27guy]

and what exactly gives you that suspicion, other than that you've had a few transactions with Eric?


Steve,

This is not my first BO spectacle rodeo..... but maybe I'll be wrong this time. Guess we will see.


Eric has emailed me who he bought the card from and when. It was part of a huge collection. It was several years ago. Eric does not believe that individual is responsible for the card being trimmed. I get the sense that he doesn't want to out that individual because he does not believe that person trimmed the card. I do not know that individual, but I do know of him.

Meanwhile, Rookies posted some incredibly important info here. He should be commended for that - though understandably, I'm sure Eric is upset. It hurts the value.

Now, I am hoping Rookies will simply say (reiterate) whether he truly sold and shipped that card directly to Eric. That's all I want. If he does that, then we'll know it's an Eric situation (unless Eric provides proof that Rookies is lying).

I've done over $50k in transactions with Rookies. He is the most laid back guy you will ever meet and I highly doubt you hear another word from him on this thread, like he mention above. I would testify all day to his upstanding character and being a purist in the hobby. I would be shocked to my core if he isn't shooting us straight.

Oh hey, Eric also owns the 64/99 Lebron RPA that is now a BGS 6, but it used to be a 9. Check out page 6 of this BO thread.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=828012&page=6

I like Rookies too. We've always had very good communication. He's an asset to the boards. I still think he might be trying to protect a friend here. If I'm wrong, I apologize for asking the wrong questions. But like all of you, I just want to KNOW what's happened here. I want to out the bad guy and shun him. The bad guy is not rookies. It's either Eric, or someone who trimmed the card before he owned it.

Let's for a moment assume that rookies is incorrect and that it wasn't a direct transaction with Eric.

Let's assume for the same moment that when rookies said that instead of a month after he traded away the card it ended up trimmed, in a BGS slab and in the hands of Eric...maybe it was 2-3 months.

In no scenario here is rookies going to look "bad."

We know certain facts right?

- rookies has produced raw images of the card in question showing clear edge damage in his possession.
- Eric (buynicecards) owned the trimmed BGS 9 that rookies' damaged card became.

These seem fairly indisputable. Nothing stating that Eric trimmed the card, or knowingly offering a trimmed card has been implied.

So, Eric (buynicecards) told you that he is positive that he bought the Lebron already graded in 2014. Ok, sounds plausible.

Looking at the BGS serial-numbers (as stated by another user here), the Lebron was graded in 2015...April 24th to be exact.

Here are the 4 cards from that submission:
Card Serial Number: 0008613849
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613850
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Bill Russell/19
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613851
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/25
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613852
Set Name : 2013 Upper Deck Tiger Woods Master Collection
Player Name : Tiger Woods PATCH AU/25/ Exquisite Rookie Patch
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Google any of the 4 cards above and you'll find all 4 in Eric's possession at some point. So sure, we could believe that maybe Eric bought this entire submission after they were graded by whomever the rookies was confused that he traded his Lebron to if it wasn't Eric himself.

None of this looks like rookies has any explaining to do.

Eric on the other hand...well...not sure if the gun is still smoking, but this looks bad. He is positive that he bought the Lebron in question in 2014...when it was graded in 2015. When it was received back from BGS with 3 other cards he owned.

I agree with you on almost everything. I don't know you, but I appreciate your thoughts here.

I would suggest Eric also come on in and have this conversation. I would guess he's hesitant to because he'll have to acknowledge that a six figure asset of his has been altered...... I think we can all empathize with that being a not-so-fun situation.

I think it's highly likely that the other person involved sold all of those cards you mentioned above in the collection to Eric.

[chuckerrrr]

Think of how much extra coin they make from people trying to bump grades annually. I see where your coming from and think it would be a great idea but they would make good coin from reslabs/bump attempts etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[discostu]

I agree with you on almost everything. I don't know you, but I appreciate your thoughts here.

I would suggest Eric also come on in and have this conversation. I would guess he's hesitant to because he'll have to acknowledge that a six figure asset of his has been altered...... I think we can all empathize with that being a not-so-fun situation.

I think it's highly likely that the other person involved sold all of those cards you mentioned above in the collection to Eric.
The post I made was incorrect.

As stated in the edited post.

A different BGS Lebron altogether from the one rookies owned.

[NeedChapmans]

I stand corrected and have noted such in my post.

The submission for this Lebron was
Card Serial Number: 0008145826
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014

Card Serial Number: 0008145827
Set Name : 2009-10 Playoff National Treasures Century Gold
Player Name : James Harden JSY AU
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014

Card Serial Number: 0008145828
Set Name : 1986-87 Fleer
Player Name : Michael Jordan RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014

The Jordan seemed to not meet the requirements.

BGS has the receipts. If only ...

[the27guy]

The post I made was incorrect.

As stated in the edited post.

A different BGS Lebron altogether from the one rookies owned.

Yeah, good call. We're all trying here. We're getting there.

But for the most part, this is why BO is awesome. Truly. This makes the community better, smarter, and in this case, we're unfortunately going to find out that someone made some very dishonest decisions. My bet is on a guy between Rookies and Eric. Fingers crossed.

[AlabamaSlamma]

Sold 2/11/2007:

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2003-upper-deck-exquisite-lebron-james-rookie-bgs-9?fbclid=IwAR2hzZhrdAQkij52KG4KJJ49q7DRmNwSAZeFwnvybzZVmrfbEgPGqgeythA

From the description:

"Up for auction is the best rookie card for NBA superstar LeBron James. 2003-04 UpperDeck Exqusite Jersey/Auto #78, 3 color patch, 74/99. Has been graded by the best agency Beckett (BGS). Final grade was BGS 9, autograph 10. Awesome, awesome subgrades. 10/8.5/9.5/9.5. This card was 0.5 point away from a BGS 9.5!!!! BGS#0004816958. We all know how rare this card is. Exquisite boxes are thousands of dollars because of this card. Serious bidders only!!! I will only accept Paypal, money orders or cashiers checks. No personal checks!! Thanks for looking and good luck. I will accept offers, so let me know!! If you are new to Ebay or have less than a 25 feedback..please email me prior to bidding!!"

Card Serial Number: 0004816958
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : L.James JSY AU
Date Graded : Monday, November 20, 2006
Centering Grade : 10.0
Corner Grade : 8.5
Edges Grade : 9.5
Surfaces Grade : 9.5
Autograph Grade: 10.0

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-TrtHNTf/0/7215c464/X2/i-TrtHNTf-X2.jpg (https://610sportscards.smugmug.com/The-Collection/Miscellaneous/n-LwWZvs/i-TrtHNTf/A)

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-ShcRWpB/0/bcd7459c/XL/i-ShcRWpB-XL.jpg (https://610sportscards.smugmug.com/The-Collection/Miscellaneous/n-LwWZvs/i-ShcRWpB/A)

[smalltown]

he'll have to acknowledge that a six figure asset of his has been altered...... I think we can all empathize with that being a not-so-fun situation.

And lets get back to this important point.

The card is altered. He "now" knows it's altered. Him not acknowledging - wether he has a part in the alterations or not - it now is just as shady. If he sells it now without listing it as such he is knowingly committing fraud and/or unconscionable consumer conduct. It's not a good look to just "turn a blind eye".

[the27guy]

And lets get back to this important point.

The card is altered. He "now" knows it's altered. Him not acknowledging - wether he has a part in the alterations or not - it now is just as shady. If he sells it now without listing it as such he is knowingly committing fraud and/or unconscionable consumer conduct. It's not a good look to just "turn a blind eye".

That's all fair but A) he's not trying to sell it. and B) he's not under any obligation to come shout it from the rooftops.

If he ever attempts to sell it, then let's have a conversation but there's a distinct chance he's learning today that it's altered.

[NeedChapmans]

Slamma with some interesting new evidence.

The card was 0.5 away from a Gem. Then cracked out, all of a sudden had edge damage, then altered and regraded once again as a BGS 9.

Grading is such a filthy racket.

[the27guy]

Justin's post now puts us at the following timeline of knowns-

2007 - it was a 9.

2018 - it is a 9

Some time in the past - it had serious damage.

Unless I'm mistaken, the card was still trimmed somewhere along the way.

[starvela]

So, card was originally in good BGS 9 condition, then broken out of case to bump to 9.5 and card got damaged by either an individual or Beckett themselves...Then trimmed and graded again a BGS 9...wow, poor card!!

[NeedChapmans]

Justin's post now puts us at the following timeline of knowns-

2007 - it was a 9.

2018 - it is a 9

Some time in the past - it had serious damage.

Unless I'm mistaken, the card was still trimmed somewhere along the way.

Correct. Adds a layer of "When did Rookies own the card"?

[smalltown]

That's all fair but A) he's not trying to sell it. and B) he's not under any obligation to come shout it from the rooftops.

If he ever attempts to sell it, then let's have a conversation but there's a distinct chance he's learning today that it's altered.

If he's not planning on selling it that's fine. It matters not. I assumed wrongly it was for sale. But I still stand by what i said - if it comes for sale it needs to be acknowledged.

[Deadshot]

I don't know either person here and have no horse in the race, but this was posted in a Reggie Miller group I'm a part of a while ago. This card somehow went from an 8 surface grade to a 9.5, despite a significant area of surface damage that the original seller acknowledged. That seems strange to me.

[discostu]

While the water is most definitely more murky, it's also more clear.

Eric (buynicecards) and rookies both owned this card...we know that.

We don't know the timeline other than what rookies has stated...he owned the raw card with clear damage (no indication that he broke it out of the previous BGS 9 slab) and recalls trading it to Eric (buynicecards) and a month later it's back in a new BGS 9 slab.

Grading has flaws.

[theleica]

The side by side comparison is amazing when all the pictures are straightening, cropped, and scaled the the same size. (Left is the Original BGS 9, the middle is original 74/99 that was posted & the right is the most recent BGS9)

[DevinKurant]

Adam, will you please ask Eric if he graded or purchased the 87/99 graded? The OP presented picture evidence of the card being trimmed and the card is currently in Eric's possession. Also, could you also ask him if he bought the 64/99 graded at the BGS 9 or graded at its current BGS 6?

I emailed Eric earlier this morning but he never responded to me. We had a falling out over a month ago so I don't blame his ignoring me.

[starvela]

Adam, will you please ask Eric if he graded or purchased the 87/99 graded? The OP presented picture evidence of the card being trimmed and the card is currently in Eric's possession. Also, could you also ask him if he bought the 64/99 graded at the BGS 9 or graded at its current BGS 6?

I emailed Eric earlier this morning but he never responded to me. We had a falling out over a month ago so I don't blame his ignoring me.

The 87/99 clearly looks trimmed...Why is nobody talking about this one?

[the27guy]

I don't know either person here and have no horse in the race, but this was posted in a Reggie Miller group I'm a part of a while ago. This card somehow went from an 8 surface grade to a 9.5, despite a significant area of surface damage that the original seller acknowledged. That seems strange to me.

Cards definitely get subbed and resubbed for stuff like this. Drives me crazy. I have never resubmitted a card but it sure makes sense that people do.

While the water is most definitely more murky, it's also more clear.

Eric (buynicecards) and rookies both owned this card...we know that.

We don't know the timeline other than what rookies has stated...he owned the raw card with clear damage (no indication that he broke it out of the previous BGS 9 slab) and recalls trading it to Eric (buynicecards) and a month later it's back in a new BGS 9 slab.

Grading has flaws.

Yep. Grading looking more and more like a farce all the time. Saying that pains me. I have a lot of value between those two companies. At least they protect the cards pretty well.

Adam, will you please ask Eric if he graded or purchased the 87/99 graded? The OP presented picture evidence of the card being trimmed and the card is currently in Eric's possession. Also, could you also ask him if he bought the 64/99 graded at the BGS 9 or graded at its current BGS 6?

I emailed Eric earlier this morning but he never responded to me. We had a falling out over a month ago so I don't blame his ignoring me.

He said that he bought it graded earlier. For sure, I'm going to let him answer all questions on this now though. I can understand why neither he nor Rookies want's to say anything at this point. I just want them to each come here and say where the card went between the two of them. Pretty please guys?

[KhalDrogo]

I don't know either person here and have no horse in the race, but this was posted in a Reggie Miller group I'm a part of a while ago. This card somehow went from an 8 surface grade to a 9.5, despite a significant area of surface damage that the original seller acknowledged. That seems strange to me.
Somebody (not necessarily BNC) has a nice BGS hookup.

[starvela]

.....

[starvela]

Adam, will you please ask Eric if he graded or purchased the 87/99 graded? The OP presented picture evidence of the card being trimmed and the card is currently in Eric's possession. Also, could you also ask him if he bought the 64/99 graded at the BGS 9 or graded at its current BGS 6?

I emailed Eric earlier this morning but he never responded to me. We had a falling out over a month ago so I don't blame his ignoring me.







He said that he bought it graded earlier. For sure, I'm going to let him answer all questions on this now though. I can understand why neither he nor Rookies want's to say anything at this point. I just want them to each come here and say where the card went between the two of them. Pretty please guys?

But, it's showing 87/99 got graded along with 3 other cards that BNC listed for sale...

[KhalDrogo]

BNC owns 87 now or previously did? I don’t see that he owns it on his site. That one is obviously trimmed though.

[the27guy]

But, it's showing 87/99 got graded along with 3 other cards that BNC listed for sale...

I don't understand why this is an issue if Eric also bought those other three cards in the large collection mentioned earlier in this thread.

Again, I'm letting Eric answer his own questions at this point. I'd like to continue to do detective work here, but I have to get some other stuff done.

I still believe Eric. I think both he and Rookies are not selling out a mutual friend here who they each know stands in the middle. And I think they should hang him out to dry. They should each say his name.
But instead, neither are posting anything..... which sucks.

[ReggieEvansPC]

Am I correct in saying that "Eric" owns/owned two Lebron Exquisites /99 that have been trimmed?

[starvela]

But, it's showing 87/99 got graded along with 3 other cards that BNC listed for sale...

I don't understand why this is an issue if Eric also bought those other three cards in the large collection mentioned earlier in this thread.

Again, I'm letting Eric answer his own questions at this point. I'd like to continue to do detective work here, but I have to get some other stuff done.

I still believe Eric. I think both he and Rookies are not selling out a mutual friend here who they each know stands in the middle. And I think they should hang him out to dry. They should each say his name.
But instead, neither are posting anything..... which sucks.

I thought the one he bought with big the collection was the one being discussed by rookies, 74/99...This is a different one, 87/99..But I understand my man, thanks for all the efforts!!

[discostu]

Am I correct in saying that "Eric" owns/owned two Lebron Exquisites /99 that have been trimmed?

At least.

And as someone who watched Reggie Evans last game in Iowa City, if you can find video of the post game court sendoff when he had the microphone (along with the other seniors)...you will not be disappointed. It was the most outstanding, unintelligible, confusing nonsense ever.

[the27guy]

I thought the one he bought with big the collection was the one being discussed by rookies, 74/99...This is a different one, 87/99..But I understand my man, thanks for all the efforts!!

Oh, gotchya. Yeah. I don't know. I've lost count of where we are. I'll try and check back tonight. We'll get to the bottom of this.

[NYFAN2014]

Eric bought the card already graded and is well known in the hobby and at shows. I agree with Adam that one of the previous owners before Eric must of handled the card raw. But for the card to pass BGS is more suspect to me, it looks altered by pictures presented but pictures could be misleading.

[tmar214]

Interesting thread and tough spot all around. Makes sense that someone who deals in crazy high end cards would acquire with some altered cards. Good chance we all underestimate just how many high end cards end up trimmed considering the money at stake.

At this point most interesting things that we may never find out are.

1) who had the card in between and why the rookies said the card went directly to Eric if it didn't. Or if Eric is lying?

2) What happens to the card now. Potential 6 figure dump in value. Easy to say from outside that breaking it out or having the label changed to altered is the move but thats a serious money loss based off a few photos.

[ThoseBackPages]

not to defend BGS or TPG as a whole..

which of the below is equal to $1 (one US Dollar)?

four quarters
10 dimes
20 nickels
100 pennies

if a card meets "correct" measurements, what are TPG companies to do?

[LALeakers]

That's all fair but A) he's not trying to sell it. and B) he's not under any obligation to come shout it from the rooftops.

If he ever attempts to sell it, then let's have a conversation but there's a distinct chance he's learning today that it's altered.


I can understand why neither he nor Rookies want's to say anything at this point. I just want them to each come here and say where the card went between the two of them. Pretty please guys?

You speak for him....but let him tell the story........:)!

[LALeakers]

So many grey areas all around. When people get called out and get asked questions....they go silent.

[Pathora]

Think of how much extra coin they make from people trying to bump grades annually. I see where your coming from and think it would be a great idea but they would make good coin from reslabs/bump attempts etc.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get this thought for a lot of higher numbered cards, but for such an iconic card like the LeBron Exquisite RPA how many do they realistically grade in a year? This card is worth around 100k+ I think these grading companies need to have photo evidence of these cards when they're initially graded, serial number and every flaw they see. Then if the card ever comes back around they can go back in their database, the exact score doesn't have to be the same but looking at a card before with 8 edges and it's a 9.5 now would draw a flag. This looks bad for the grading companies as well.

Most major RC cards are unnumbered anyway like Topps Chrome Refractors/Panini Silver Prizms so they can still be graded over and over.

[mc1]

not to defend BGS or TPG as a whole..

which of the below is equal to $1 (one US Dollar)?

four quarters
10 dimes
20 nickels
100 pennies

if a card meets "correct" measurements, what are TPG companies to do?

You’re assuming they know what a ruler or tape measure are.;) Or that they know how to use these tools. You’re also assuming they bother measuring every single card (they should). Finally, you’re assuming they care whether or not a card is trimmed.


This is like the tenth time I’ve seen you post this nonsense.

[ThoseBackPages]

You’re assuming they know what a ruler or tape measure are.;) Or that they know how to use these tools. You’re also assuming they bother measuring every single card (they should). Finally, you’re assuming they care whether or not a card is trimmed.


This is like the tenth time I’ve seen you post this nonsense.

keep on hating Brother, no worries :)

[mc1]

keep on hating Brother, no worries :)

Sorry you took it that way. You should see that I’m really hating on the grading companies.

The last part may have been uncalled for but I’ve seen you post it numerous times and enough is enough.

[DevinKurant]

My experience with Eric has been positive. I say that despite him winning at every trade we've ever made. If he's not the smartest guy in the room, I don't know who is. But he's been fair with me.

Now that you've defended Eric I hope he lets you win 1 effing trade going forward. I'm so tired of people defending his greed by saying, "this is his livelihood...of course he doesn't: pay market price for cards...sell cards at a discount...tell you good market information to help you land a card he wants...etc."

To me, this seems like someone who would trim. There is not nearly enough evidence to prove that he trims, but I've just heard too many people talk about Eric's greed; and hearing that he doesn't let a great guy in the hobby win 1 effing trade over the years really ticks me off.

[starvela]

I thought the one he bought with big the collection was the one being discussed by rookies, 74/99...This is a different one, 87/99..But I understand my man, thanks for all the efforts!!

QUOTE=the27guy;14133360]Oh, gotchya. Yeah. I don't know. I've lost count of where we are. I'll try and check back tonight. We'll get to the bottom of this.[/QUOTE]



Eric bought the card already graded and is well known in the hobby and at shows. I agree with Adam that one of the previous owners before Eric must of handled the card raw. But for the card to pass BGS is more suspect to me, it looks altered by pictures presented but pictures could be misleading.

So, you are saying he bought both already graded..? Remember, 2 are at question...One (87/99) is showing it got graded with 3 other cards that some or all were sold or listed (excluding the Lebron) by BNC...

[AbraCalabro]

I don't understand why this is an issue if Eric also bought those other three cards in the large collection mentioned earlier in this thread.

Again, I'm letting Eric answer his own questions at this point. I'd like to continue to do detective work here, but I have to get some other stuff done.

I still believe Eric. I think both he and Rookies are not selling out a mutual friend here who they each know stands in the middle. And I think they should hang him out to dry. They should each say his name.
But instead, neither are posting anything..... which sucks.

If that's the case then this all goes back to what I mentioned before. People can do whatever the hell they want, trimming included, apparently, and others will steer clear of presenting what happened and calling out those who are involved in unscrupulous things.

If there is a middle man and you're correct in that they don't want to call out the middle man, then this mystery person can seemingly do whatever the hell he wants, but as long as he's involved with and servicing the right people, no one wants to put his name out there.

Since we're not really getting anything concrete past a certain point from either party, the only thing left is speculation and that's how things will spiral out of control. Someone s**t the bed here and no one wants to admit to it and whoever knows, doesn't want to make a clear statement and back it up.

It won't matter anyway, because whoever is involved in whatever here is still going to get business and do business and will still be considered a great person to work with and an asset to the hobby, etc. All I know is that if I were involved and my hands were clean in the matter, I would be damn sure to clear my name beyond doubt. I suspect most would do the same...but then again, politics and all that. Can't make damning calls, because whoever gets buried might acquire a card I want next week, so don't ask, don't tell.

[Wings]

So rookies could clear this up by answering a yes or no question?

[pejc300]

27guy and his speaking for Eric is easily the best part of this thread. "I'm gonna let Eric speak for himself..." then speaks for Eric for the 17th time.

Love you brother, just have to give you a hard time.

[asujbl]

A - I miss blowout
B - this thread gave me a migraine

My mind is so much clearer, it’s like giving up beer, after work
blocked Blowout

[AlabamaSlamma]

A - I miss blowout
B - this thread gave me a migraine

My mind is so much clearer, it’s like giving up beer, after work
blocked Blowout

You are not missed.

Conversely, I miss you so much.

Life is pain.

[asujbl]

You are not missed.

Conversely, I miss you so much.

Life is pain.

Text me later...

[chuckerrrr]

I get this thought for a lot of higher numbered cards, but for such an iconic card like the LeBron Exquisite RPA how many do they realistically grade in a year? This card is worth around 100k+ I think these grading companies need to have photo evidence of these cards when they're initially graded, serial number and every flaw they see. Then if the card ever comes back around they can go back in their database, the exact score doesn't have to be the same but looking at a card before with 8 edges and it's a 9.5 now would draw a flag. This looks bad for the grading companies as well.



Most major RC cards are unnumbered anyway like Topps Chrome Refractors/Panini Silver Prizms so they can still be graded over and over.



I totally agree with you Im just saying from bgs and psa cash cow point of view regrades bring in more and more cash instead of them actually making sure the hobby stays honest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[salthill]

I still believe Eric. I think both he and Rookies are not selling out a mutual friend here who they each know stands in the middle.


The claims, as stated here so far, don’t match that. (Rookies said they sent it “straight to” Eric.)
So either you have more info you haven’t mentioned in public, or it’s understandable wish fulfilment on your part.

Either way, as things stand, the burden is on rookies to prove they sent it straight to Eric.

(In case there’s doubt, I’m not knocking you Adam. It’s a human response to hope people you’ve been dealing with, and who are a part of your community, aren’t crooked and taking advantage of that community.)

(PS - I loved your NBA countdown thread!)

[the27guy]

My last post of the night on this.

Thanks to the five of you who I've PM'd with or had conversations with about this today..... I think 4 of you referred to me as a glutton for punishment. :) Thanks.

This thread was fun and largely prevented me from getting to stuff I needed to. But in all seriousness, this is really important to our community. Trimming is an issue and the graders need to take measures to make sure that this does not happen. They are culpable.

But to the issue at hand, figuring out who trimmed this card is vital. And again, I actually think there should be legal action if that person ever sold (sells) the card. Will anyone take legal action? No, because even trimmed it's worth a lot more than it sold for back in 2014.

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I PM'd Rookies earlier today..... I use to have his cell, but can't find that now. I have not heard back. I think he knows that he shouldn't have said that he sold it to Eric. I think he'd like to take that back. But I'm just guessing. It's weird that Eric will answer any question that I ask him but I can't get Jack to. I understand that all of you don't care because you can't see my conversations with Eric.... you can take my word for it, or not - whatever.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from.... and I agree with Abra that both of those guys should out the guy who trimmed it.... but that's for them to do.

Last thing from me. This is what I'm guessing happened. This is a summation list. This is just a guess via a really rough timeline.

1. The card originally graded a 9 back before 2007.
2. At some point an owner broke it out of the BGS case. This was either Jack, or before Jack owned it (another reason why he might not want to continue to post about this). Somewhere along the way, either before Jack got it or once it was in his possession, it graded a 7.5 as he stated earlier. There's no reason for Jack to state this if it's not true. Then, I'd guess he cracked it back out and sold it to Guy X.
3. Guy X or another guy he sold it to trims the card, grades it a 9 and then sells it to Eric. Or sells it to the guy who sold it to Eric.
4. We (everybody including Eric) finds out today that the card is trimmed.


Am I crazy? Yep, probably. That's what I think happened. Go Blowout go. I still hope Eric and Jack come on in and have some fun telling us what happened so we can figure this out.

Trimming is evil and bad and if you do it, you should go to jail. The end.

[starvela]

My last post of the night on this.

Thanks to the five of you who I've PM'd with or had conversations with about this today..... I think 4 of you referred to me as a glutton for punishment. :) Thanks.

This thread was fun and largely prevented me from getting to stuff I needed to. But in all seriousness, this is really important to our community. Trimming is an issue and the graders need to take measures to make sure that this does not happen. They are culpable.

But to the issue at hand, figuring out who trimmed this card is vital. And again, I actually think there should be legal action if that person ever sold (sells) the card. Will anyone take legal action? No, because even trimmed it's worth a lot more than it sold for back in 2014.

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I PM'd Rookies earlier today..... I use to have his cell, but can't find that now. I have not heard back. I think he knows that he shouldn't have said that he sold it to Eric. I think he'd like to take that back. But I'm just guessing. It's weird that Eric will answer any question that I ask him but I can't get Jack to. I understand that all of you don't care because you can't see my conversations with Eric.... you can take my word for it, or not - whatever.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from.... and I agree with Abra that both of those guys should out the guy who trimmed it.... but that's for them to do.

Last thing from me. This is what I'm guessing happened. This is a summation list. This is just a guess via a really rough timeline.

1. The card originally graded a 9 back before 2007.
2. At some point an owner broke it out of the BGS case. This was either Jack, or before Jack owned it (another reason why he might not want to continue to post about this). Somewhere along the way, either before Jack got it or once it was in his possession, it graded a 7.5 as he stated earlier. There's no reason for Jack to state this if it's not true. Then, I'd guess he cracked it back out and sold it to Guy X.
3. Guy X or another guy he sold it to trims the card, grades it a 9 and then sells it to Eric. Or sells it to the guy who sold it to Eric.
4. We (everybody including Eric) finds out today that the card is trimmed.


Am I crazy? Yep, probably. That's what I think happened. Go Blowout go. I still hope Eric and Jack come on in and have some fun telling us what happened so we can figure this out.

Trimming is evil and bad and if you do it, you should go to jail. The end.

Great detailed info and all that could and likely be true but you keep bringing up the 74/99 mentioned by rookies, but what about about the other trimmed BGS 9 87/99, Remember, 2 are being questioned and you are only discussing one.. The other 87/99 is actually showing it got graded with 3 other cards that some or all were sold or listed (excluding the Lebron) by BNC...Whats the info on that one...

[the27guy]

Great detailed info and all that could and likely be true but you keep bringing up the 74/99 mentioned by rookies, but what about about the other trimmed card 87/99, Remember, 2 are being questioned and you are only discussing one.. The other 87/99 is actually showing it got graded with 3 other cards that some or all were sold or listed (excluding the Lebron) by BNC...Whats the info on that one...

I’m trying to solve one at a time. I haven’t even looked at the second. But I agree that we should get to that. Just gets convoluted. Trying to keep it simple for now.

[cardsdownunder]

Rookies, thanks so much for the valuable and constructive information you provided the community!! That was my goal with this thread! Def not trying to roast these poor schmucks, but hoping everyone is aware of these issues.

[cardsdownunder]

The 74/99 issue is settled --- once a nice BGS 9, then got damaged, then got trimmed, now a clean 9 again! Thanks mates for contributing the pictures proofing it!

[the27guy]

The 74/99 issue is settled --- once a nice BGS 9, then got damaged, then got trimmed, now a clean 9 again! Thanks mates for contributing the pictures proofing it!

That was solved hours ago.

Finding out who did it is what matters.

[cardsdownunder]

That was solved hours ago.

Finding out who did it is what matters.

Absolutely! Hopefully Eric will explain this!

[starvela]

I’m trying to solve one at a time. I haven’t even looked at the second. But I agree that we should get to that. Just gets convoluted. Trying to keep it simple for now.

I understand and I'm sure everyone wants to hear about the 87/99 considering the serial # and results of that...

[jmscoggin]

If someone was impugning my integrity and inferring that I had trimmed a card let alone a six figure card, you'd better damn well bet that I'd be here posting, professing my innocence and outing any damn fool that owned the card before me who might be the actual culprit. I have to question anyone that wouldn't do the same.

The fact that one person owns not one but two such cards and refuses to talk or explain how the cards came into their possession? Sorry, I'm a very loyal guy but I don't risk my reputation and/or integrity for anyone and the fact that the person in question here is willing to makes me seriously wonder as to why.

[the27guy]

Sorry, I'm a very loyal guy but I don't risk my reputation and/or integrity for anyone and the fact that the person in question here is willing to makes me seriously wonder as to why.

This is a good question.

There are many reasons - though I don’t know anything specific.

1. Because you honestly believe they didn’t do anything wrong and it was the person before them.
2. Because you believe there will be no end to the questions regardless of what you say.
3. Because the card is not for sale anyways.
4. Because outting that person could result in other cards being brought into question.

There’s a lot of reasons why. I am just thinking out loud. Nothing in this hobby happens in a vacuum.

[Siberian13]

My last post of the night on this...then keeps posting. You don’t have to defend anyone. They need to defend themselves. Eric and Rookies both look bad until they provide the evidence to clear themselves. It’s that simple.

[jmscoggin]

Sorry, I'm a very loyal guy but I don't risk my reputation and/or integrity for anyone and the fact that the person in question here is willing to makes me seriously wonder as to why.

This is a good question.

There are many reasons - though I don’t know anything specific.

1. Because you honestly believe they didn’t do anything wrong and it was the person before them.
2. Because you believe there will be no end to the questions regardless of what you say.
3. Because the card is not for sale anyways.
4. Because outting that person could result in other cards being brought into question.

There’s a lot of reasons why. I am just thinking out loud. Nothing in this hobby happens in a vacuum.

I was referring to the current owner of the Lebrons in question but since you brought it up, yes, I seriously question why you are continuing to be his mouthpiece. Does it not concern you in the slightest that he is hiding out and refusing to defend his own honor? An innocent man would be screaming from the rooftops that the charges against him are incorrect.

1.) Let him do the reasoning. Unless you are hired counsel, I'm not sure why you are the one fighting this fight.

2.) This isn't going to fly, not at this point. A card of this magnitude likely has a very clear and provable lineage. Name the previous owners, narrow down the guilty party and the questions cease.

3.) Really? This is a massive cop out.

4.) Good. If someone did shady things to one card they probably did them to many. This is probably the closest thing to the truth we've heard all day though. I bet that there are a bunch of altered cards and someone would rather one be publicly outed and devalued than many. Again, it begs the question, why would one person have so many cards where scrutiny would be an issue?

Putting yourself in harms way to defend a friend can be noble to a point but I think that point has long since passed. You are now risking your own integrity and reputation and the person in question needs to put on his big boy pants and speak for himself.

[the27guy]

My last post of the night on this...then keeps posting. You don’t have to defend anyone. They need to defend themselves. Eric and Rookies both look bad until they provide the evidence to clear themselves. It’s that simple.

Can’t help myself. But whenever I feel like the judgments come too fast and without context, I typically suspend judgment and share why. It’s probably a character flaw.

We’ve got a mob mentality here sometimes. It’s not exactly the best learning environment.

[jmscoggin]

Can’t help myself. But whenever I feel like the judgments come too fast and without context, I typically suspend judgment and share why. It’s probably a character flaw.

We’ve got a mob mentality here sometimes. It’s not exactly the best learning environment.

I respect what you've been trying to do and have the very same character flaw. Having said that, at some point it gets to the point where you are so caught up that people start to believe you are involved. Like I said before, I'm all for defending a friend but if that friend is a grown man and is refusing to speak for himself, I'd be forced to question why.

Yes, the mob can be rough here sometimes but I have yet to see it in this thread, quite the opposite in fact, I think people have been pretty patient and reasonable.

[jmscoggin]

Nothing in this hobby happens in a vacuum.

I can't seem to shake this line, care to elaborate?

[alias21]

My last post of the night on this.

Thanks to the five of you who I've PM'd with or had conversations with about this today..... I think 4 of you referred to me as a glutton for punishment. :) Thanks.

This thread was fun and largely prevented me from getting to stuff I needed to. But in all seriousness, this is really important to our community. Trimming is an issue and the graders need to take measures to make sure that this does not happen. They are culpable.

But to the issue at hand, figuring out who trimmed this card is vital. And again, I actually think there should be legal action if that person ever sold (sells) the card. Will anyone take legal action? No, because even trimmed it's worth a lot more than it sold for back in 2014.

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I PM'd Rookies earlier today..... I use to have his cell, but can't find that now. I have not heard back. I think he knows that he shouldn't have said that he sold it to Eric. I think he'd like to take that back. But I'm just guessing. It's weird that Eric will answer any question that I ask him but I can't get Jack to. I understand that all of you don't care because you can't see my conversations with Eric.... you can take my word for it, or not - whatever.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from.... and I agree with Abra that both of those guys should out the guy who trimmed it.... but that's for them to do.

Last thing from me. This is what I'm guessing happened. This is a summation list. This is just a guess via a really rough timeline.

1. The card originally graded a 9 back before 2007.
2. At some point an owner broke it out of the BGS case. This was either Jack, or before Jack owned it (another reason why he might not want to continue to post about this). Somewhere along the way, either before Jack got it or once it was in his possession, it graded a 7.5 as he stated earlier. There's no reason for Jack to state this if it's not true. Then, I'd guess he cracked it back out and sold it to Guy X.
3. Guy X or another guy he sold it to trims the card, grades it a 9 and then sells it to Eric. Or sells it to the guy who sold it to Eric.
4. We (everybody including Eric) finds out today that the card is trimmed.


Am I crazy? Yep, probably. That's what I think happened. Go Blowout go. I still hope Eric and Jack come on in and have some fun telling us what happened so we can figure this out.

Trimming is evil and bad and if you do it, you should go to jail. The end.

You say Eric will answer any question you ask him. Well maybe ask him if he bought it directly from jack? That’s the only question left...if I got the names right. I’m assuming jack (rookies/op) didn’t trim this otherwise why start this thread? So the person who trimmed this is Eric (your boy) or whoever he bought it from. So who did he buy it from since he’ll answer any question.

[KhalDrogo]

Note to self: don’t buy from BNC!

Silence speaks. It’s silly to not comment personally to defend your business at this point.

[chuckerrrr]

I feel for the27guy. Hes now taking all the load on this matter. Please guys give him a break. The way he has dealt with this has been with open mind and like all of us trying to get down to the bottom of it with out making accusations before we get more evidence. In saying that instead of us going through the27guy for information from especially Eric, can we just somehow get Rookies and Eric to please come forward on here with more information/evidences as to clear themselves and expose any fraud done. We can talk all we want. Only those guys can clear themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the27guy]

I feel for the27guy. Hes now taking all the load on this matter. Please guys give him a break. The way he has dealt with this has been with open mind and like all of us trying to get down to the bottom of it with out making accusations before we get more evidence. In saying that instead of us going through the27guy for information from especially Eric, can we just somehow get Rookies and Eric to please come forward on here with more information/evidences as to clear themselves and expose any fraud done. We can talk all we want. Only those guys can clear themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really appreciate this sentiment. Thank you. I fundamentally believe people should be encouraged to say what they think and believe and discouraging those things is detrimental to the greater good. In business and all places in communities we are better when this is the accepted policy.....

But I’ve been on blowout long enough to know this is how this thread would go eventually. Still, I’d rather call it as I see it and let people decide for themselves. My reputation will be fine. I’m not involved. Heck, I actually called out Rookies to give us more data in the first place. Lol. And if there are people who think less of me for having an open mind and not immediately casting judgment at a hobby friend (with far from perfect evidence) then I probably don’t really want to be associated with those people in the first place.

Eric? Jack? Crickets.

[jjeanius]

(18th time pejc300) Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

I still think Jack (Rookies) should just come here again and clarify where the card went when he sold it. I think he doesn't want to hurt someone he's dealt with who he likely considers a friend. I think Eric probably feels the same way about who he bought it from....


Sorry, but this absolutely does NOT wash. In his very first post in this thread, rookies made it abundantly clear that he traded the card directly to Eric. That was the whole point of his post. So, if that’s not true (and he’s protecting some mysterious third party), why bother to incriminate Eric at all? Or, to your point: If he is trying to protect someone else, how does he accomplish this goal by incriminating Eric? The easiest way to protect a guilty third party is to not post in this thread to begin with.

The fact remains: There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence here, AND ALL OF IT POINTS TO ERIC. I am all for “innocent until proven guilty”, but his silence in the face of such accusations is damning.

[the27guy]

Sorry, but this absolutely does NOT wash. In his very first post in this thread, rookies made it abundantly clear that he traded the card directly to Eric. That was the whole point of his post. So, if that’s not true (and he’s protecting some mysterious third party), why bother to incriminate Eric at all? Or, to your point: If he is trying to protect someone else, how does he accomplish this goal by incriminating Eric? The easiest way to protect a guilty third party is to not post in this thread to begin with.

The fact remains: There is a mountain of circumstantial evidence here, AND ALL OF IT POINTS TO ERIC. I am all for “innocent until proven guilty”, but his silence in the face of such accusations is damning.

I agree Eric should come here. I have told him that.

And maybe all the circumstantial evidence is pointing the right way. Maybe he did trim it.

But isn’t it a little curious that jack hasn’t come back yet? I just want one firm confirmation that the deal was just between he and Eric.

[Siberian13]

I agree Eric should come here. I have told him that.

And maybe all the circumstantial evidence is pointing the right way. Maybe he did trim it.

But isn’t it a little curious that jack hasn’t come back yet? I just want one firm confirmation that the deal was just between he and Eric.

If both guys were protecting some 3rd party then what does that say about their character. Just man up and speak the truth.

[jjeanius]

But isn’t it a little curious that jack hasn’t come back yet? I just want one firm confirmation that the deal was just between he and Eric.

Jack stated this in post #9, and confirmed it again in post #26, where he also said he would not be posting again in this thread. How many more confirmations do you need..?

Jack has stated his case - twice - while Eric still hasn’t bothered to make a single post to clear the air.

[smalltown]

These are the points i take issue with and i'm quoting you because you say this is what Eric (BNC) said:

Eric claims that he didn't trim the card and that he believes that the person who he bought it from did not trim the card. I don't think he wants any more of the conversation though - which I understand.

4. Because outting that person could result in other cards being brought into question.

He knows where the card came from. He "now" knows it's trimmed. To me what this says is he hopes it will all blow over so he doesn't have to deal with taking a hit on one or more high end cards. The card is altered. There is no question of this.

3. Because the card is not for sale anyways.

He sells high end cards. Let's not kid ourselves he had plans to try and move it eventually and probably still does. I'm sure this will put that on the back burner. But i hope people who are looking to buy a lebron of that caliber see this and or other threads that show that the card is altered.

How he deals with that card going forward will be the true test of what kind of guy he is in this hobby. If he obtained it unknowingly altered i feel for him - it's a potential loss of multiple thousands of dollars in value. But it doesn't change the fact that it's his problem to deal with now.

[starvela]

Why does everybody only discuss the one that involves rookies, there is another one at question..So, let's pretend rookies never posted anything, there is still another at question that is even more alarming considering the details that have been found...

[jmscoggin]

If both guys were protecting some 3rd party then what does that say about their character.

I think you're asking the wrong question although it was a valid point. I'm more intrigued with who this third party is. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the accuser and accusee have both gone radio silent? Have we ever seen that before?

Jack started out hot to trot and then completely disappeared. Eric's business and reputation is completely under fire yet he refuses to speak or out the one party that could clear his name. I know I wouldn't risk my business for anyone else. Who is this "third party" that has both so worried about talking?

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but my gut tells me that there is something much bigger at play than one (or even two) altered Lebrons.

[the27guy]

These are the points i take issue with and i'm quoting you because you say this is what Eric (BNC) said:





He knows where the card came from. He "now" knows it's trimmed. To me what this says is he hopes it will all blow over so he doesn't have to deal with taking a hit on one or more high end cards. The card is altered. There is no question of this.



He sells high end cards. Let's not kid ourselves he had plans to try and move it eventually and probably still does. I'm sure this will put that on the back burner. But i hope people who are looking to buy a lebron of that caliber see this and or other threads that show that the card is altered.

How he deals with that card going forward will be the true test of what kind of guy he is in this hobby. If he obtained it unknowingly altered i feel for him - it's a potential loss of multiple thousands of dollars in value. But it doesn't change the fact that it's his problem to deal with now.

What did I say that you disagree on. I agree on almost everything above. Well, except for the fact that he’s certain to sell that card. I think that’s one of his very favorites. Eric’s like most of us. He collects and sells.

Heck, actually that’s actually pretty good circumstantial evidence that Eric did not trim it. Who trims a card then grades it then never lists it publicly for 4 years? That doesn’t seem to fit, right?

[jjeanius]

Spoiler Alert: THERE IS NO THIRD PARTY

[jjeanius]

Heck, actually that’s actually pretty good circumstantial evidence that Eric did not trim it. Who trims a card then grades it then never lists it publicly for 4 years? That doesn’t seem to fit, right?

This feels like another reach. Why rush to sell it? The longer you wait, the less likely the previous owner will catch the fact that it was trimmed.

[the27guy]

Jack stated this in post #9, and confirmed it again in post #26, where he also said he would not be posting again in this thread. How many more confirmations do you need..?


Just one. That’s it. I asked a question. And I’ll take his answer at face value.

It’s kinda like dealing with my kids. Sometimes they get into a fight and each tell a story that doesn’t add up, so I get them together and say, “okay let’s figure this out.”

It’ll be good to have jack answer that question. I don’t think it makes him evil and bad if he says something like “yeah, i skipped a step in the transaction - it actually did go to a buddy of mine first” or something like that.

Or maybe you’re right and I should have just taken his original statement at face value. If that happens, I will owe him an apology. Again, by all accounts - he’s a good dude. And he is an asset to the boards. He knows that I feel that way about him.

[alias21]

I feel for the 27 guy. But he has essentially made himself the spokesperson for one of the two parties involved. The one made this thread pointing out where a card he sold was trimmed. He has nothing to gain in this other than making the hobby aware.

The other currently owns this card. And despite him “answering every question asked of him” won’t answer where they bought the card from. And yeah he’s probably a generally trustworthy person but a extra 50-100k makes people do funny things. The op said more than once he shipped directly to the current owner. I’d say it’s up to the current owner to say something.

[the27guy]

This feels like another reach. Why rush to sell it? The longer you wait, the less likely the previous owner will catch the fact that it was trimmed.

Maybe you’re right. We will see.

[the27guy]

I feel for the 27 guy. But he has essentially made himself the spokesperson for one of the two parties involved. The one made this thread pointing out where a card he sold was trimmed. He has nothing to gain in this other than making the hobby aware.

The other currently owns this card. And despite him “answering every question asked of him” won’t answer where they bought the card from. And yeah he’s probably a generally trustworthy person but a extra 50-100k makes people do funny things. The op said more than once he shipped directly to the current owner. I’d say it’s up to the current owner to say something.

He’s told me who he bought it from. I’m sorry, you’re not going to like this, but I’m not going to do the job that is Jack’s and Eric’s. They need to say who they sold and purchased the card from. That’s on them.

[discostu]

So much makes sense here...even with the voids of info.

First and foremost, Jack made his case twice and had nothing to gain by showing that it was trimmed as he clearly showed scans prior to it being trimmed. If he trimmed it, or had an acquaintance trim it and then send to Eric, that makes zero sense.

And then we have Eric, who has chosen to not enter the conversation while wanting to move on from it...via a third party. Eric also has the most at stake here. Surely if he wasn't involved in the trimming, he'd be fired up to get BGS and the person who he obtained the card from involved for a resolution. And then (stating the obvious) come here to explain.

He hasn't.

Then of course we have the case of the other trimmed Lebron also under his wing.

So yeah...there's all that. And that's not good.

This is an ugly part of the hobby, and always has been. This fraudulent activity that someone is taking part in is absolutely criminal...but the parties involved have zero interest in pursuing it.

BGS absolutely bears some responsibility here too. From the comically vacant usage of correlating serial-numbers to graded cards, to the lack of internal scans of graded cards, to the lack of consistency and ability to spot trimming.

It's not good. None of it. But there's zero reason for Jack to come back and restate what he already has. Eric hasn't shown anything to counter what Jack said, and there's no reason the expect him to at this point.

[Siberian13]

I don’t know much about grading but based on the price of these cards, how do they not catch this? Could an employee at BGS also be involved? I understand they see a ton of cards but something like this should be carefully looked at more than others. How do members of Blowout have better understanding of these cards than one of the top grading companies? It seems they would have the same tools as us to figure this out.

[jjeanius]

So much makes sense here...even with the voids of info.

First and foremost, Jack made his case twice and had nothing to gain by showing that it was trimmed as he clearly showed scans prior to it being trimmed. If he trimmed it, or had an acquaintance trim it and then send to Eric, that makes zero sense.

And then we have Eric, who has chosen to not enter the conversation while wanting to move on from it...via a third party. Eric also has the most at stake here. Surely if he wasn't involved in the trimming, he'd be fired up to get BGS and the person who he obtained the card from involved for a resolution. And then (stating the obvious) come here to explain.

He hasn't.

Then of course we have the case of the other trimmed Lebron also under his wing.

So yeah...there's all that. And that's not good.

This is an ugly part of the hobby, and always has been. This fraudulent activity that someone is taking part in is absolutely criminal...but the parties involved have zero interest in pursuing it.

BGS absolutely bears some responsibility here too. From the comically vacant usage of correlating serial-numbers to graded cards, to the lack of internal scans of graded cards, to the lack of consistency and ability to spot trimming.

It's not good. None of it. But there's zero reason for Jack to come back and restate what he already has. Eric hasn't shown anything to counter what Jack said, and there's no reason the expect him to at this point.

QFT. Well said.

[the27guy]

I don’t know much about grading but based on the price of these cards, how do they not catch this? Could an employee at BGS also be involved? I understand they see a ton of cards but something like this should be carefully looked at more than others. How do members of Blowout have better understanding of these cards than one of the top grading companies? It seems they would have the same tools as us to figure this out.

Psa is just as bad. No, psa is worse. Especially on modern thicker card stock. BGS has gotten way better over the last 5 years. At least that’s what I’ve seen based on cards that I’ve known have been trimmed and eventually graded this last few years.

I personally think the companies make mistake. I have no knowledge or real suspicions that either company has people who are being deceitful internally.

[alias21]

He’s told me who he bought it from. I’m sorry, you’re not going to like this, but I’m not going to do the job that is Jack’s and Eric’s. They need to say who they sold and purchased the card from. That’s on them.

Ok well he hasn’t answered this threads question of who he bought it from. Maybe tell them that there’s a thread , on the biggest card forum, accusing him of altering the most expensive basketball card in history and there’s a person saying they sold and shipped it to him directly. Maybe that will compel him to care to respond. If it doesn’t that doesn’t look good considering he owns 2 trimmed $100k plus cards.

[the27guy]

Ok well he hasn’t answered this threads question of who he bought it from. Maybe tell them that there’s a thread , on the biggest card forum, accusing him of altering the most expensive basketball card in history and there’s a person saying they sold and shipped it to him directly. Maybe that will compel him to care to respond. If it doesn’t that doesn’t look good considering he owns 2 trimmed $100k plus cards.

I know. I’ve told him. He won’t listen to me. I’m hopeful that he will. I need to look at the other one. I’ve only looked at the first.

[discostu]

I don’t know much about grading but based on the price of these cards, how do they not catch this? Could an employee at BGS also be involved? I understand they see a ton of cards but something like this should be carefully looked at more than others. How do members of Blowout have better understanding of these cards than one of the top grading companies? It seems they would have the same tools as us to figure this out.
For anyone at BGS to be involved in the trimming, that's a reach. Now, are they complicit in lacking due diligence in a field they claim to be an expert in? Yes. Should they have a better system in place to track cards? Yes. Should they know how to size cards? Yes.

But...we then have the money.

If people weren't able to get legitimate bumps and shady bumps, BGS wouldn't be getting nearly the same revenue.

So much of this hobby has been about passing the hot potato and hoping that you don't get stuck with it.

[ninjacookies]

And yeah he’s probably a generally trustworthy person but a extra 50-100k makes people do funny things. .

Prevalent.

I won't take any sides here, but money can make people do funny things. Individuals who you'd never in a million years suspect would do something so low brow. It's hard to separate friendship from individual actions when it's someone you've been in a good graces with. We've all been there.


I hope there's a resolution to this. Cards like this constitute an extremely high level of fraud. Trimmers and patch fakers have been responsible for many crushed collector dreams and wallets for decades now. And the culprits need to start being weeded out and exposed.

Or you may unwittingly find yourself the next victim.

[alias21]

I know. I’ve told him. He won’t listen to me. I’m hopeful that he will. I need to look at the other one. I’ve only looked at the first.

Ok again I’m not blaming you but you are essentially acting as a spokesperson for him which I’m sure is a uncomfortable spot for you to be in. As you’ve said in this thread this is a very important issue and not to be taken lightly.

This is not something that will be swept under the rug or ignored. For me silence is a admission of guilt in this matter if you can’t be bothered to defend yourself against altering the most important basketball card in history

[the27guy]

Ok again I’m not blaming you but you are essentially acting as a spokesperson for him which I’m sure is a uncomfortable spot for you to be in. As you’ve said in this thread this is a very important issue and not to be taken lightly.

This is not something that will be swept under the rug or ignored. For me silence is a admission of guilt in this matter if you can’t be bothered to defend yourself against altering the most important basketball card in history

You’re clearly not the only one who feels this way. Which, again, is why I want Eric to come and tell his side. So we can learn what we need to lock away the bad guy.

[discostu]

I know. I’ve told him. He won’t listen to me. I’m hopeful that he will. I need to look at the other one. I’ve only looked at the first.

And there's a reason for that.

The more time passes, the more certainty there is. And the more certainty there is, the more people need to get involved.

[the27guy]

And there's a reason for that.

The more time passes, the more certainty there is. And the more certainty there is, the more people need to get involved.

This is an assumption that isn’t always true.

[discostu]

This is an assumption that isn’t always true.

Absolutely correct.

Death or Belize are two such examples where this wouldn't be true. Obviously there are other exceptions as well.

[the27guy]

Absolutely correct.

Death or Belize are two such examples where this wouldn't be true. Obviously there are other exceptions as well.

Lol. This is fun. We are going to but the VERY EXCLUSICE 5,000 hits in one day thread. That’s ratified air.

[ThoseBackPages]

man, i cant even post a funny here

[Siberian13]

I think you're asking the wrong question although it was a valid point. I'm more intrigued with who this third party is. Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the accuser and accusee have both gone radio silent? Have we ever seen that before?

Jack started out hot to trot and then completely disappeared. Eric's business and reputation is completely under fire yet he refuses to speak or out the one party that could clear his name. I know I wouldn't risk my business for anyone else. Who is this "third party" that has both so worried about talking?

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but my gut tells me that there is something much bigger at play than one (or even two) altered Lebrons.

The Jack guy made a post saying it was his last post. He at least showed up and said something. Eric not saying anything is very alarming. I feel like the27guy should stay out of it until proof has been presented but Eric or Jack. The fact that the27guy knows who the third party is and won’t say anything is also alarming.

This card world is very sad sometimes. Filled with greedy terrible people. I was excited to get back into this but it’s embarrassing on a daily basis watching mostly grown men be terrible people over cardboard.

[Siberian13]

man, i cant even post a funny here

Same here, it’s pretty sad.

[the27guy]

The Jack guy made a post saying it was his last post. He at least showed up and said something. Eric not saying anything is very alarming. I feel like the27guy should stay out of it until proof has been presented but Eric or Jack. The fact that the27guy knows who the third party is and won’t say anything is also alarming.

This card world is very sad sometimes. Filled with greedy terrible people. I was excited to get back into this but it’s embarrassing on a daily basis watching mostly grown men be terrible people over cardboard.

Sigh......

“Stay out of it....

But tell me what I want to know”

Don’t be alarmed. Just be patient. Let’s get these guys in here to do their own dirty work. Haven’t I done enough?

[jjeanius]

Spoiler Alert: THERE IS NO THIRD PARTY!

[Doublestriker]

If he decided to sell the card tomorrow chances are the new owner would have no clue that the card was trimmed. The fact is that a very small percentage of collectors read card collecting forums. So I agree he has a responsibility to not sell a trimmed card without full disclosure. He could easily sell the card and chances are the buyer would have no idea of our conversation.

[Siberian13]

Sigh......

“Stay out of it....

But tell me what I want to know”

Don’t be alarmed. Just be patient. Let’s get these guys in here to do their own dirty work. Haven’t I done enough?

Well you said you wouldn’t say anything so I think it’s best for you to stay out of it and let these guys come forward and resolve this.

Honestly, you haven’t done anything to help this situation. Speaking on behalf of someone in a situation like this does nothing but make you possibly look bad if you’re wrong. I hope you have been right on what your buddy has told you. You sound confident based on you being the only one knowing the 3rd party so hope it all works out.

[NeedChapmans]

So ... apparently we've done this before (https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1001748).

[jmscoggin]

The Jack guy made a post saying it was his last post. He at least showed up and said something.

Agreed but why muddy the water and then run? If he truly did send directly to Eric, show some type of proof be it PM's, emails, texts, tracking number, etc. All of this drama would have ended a long time ago if so. Don't get me wrong, there would still be drama, just not this stupid game of Clue. Colonel Mustard, in the library, with the candlestick, pffft.

Eric not saying anything is very alarming.

Agreed.

I feel like the27guy should stay out of it until proof has been presented but Eric or Jack.

You're not a newbie, you know how that would go and it's exactly what Eric is hoping for at this point, that this thread will just die off.

The fact that the27guy knows who the third party is and won’t say anything is also alarming.

I agree. I understand that he feels that he was told something in confidence so he doesn't want to betray that confidence. Normally I feel the same way but when it comes to crime, that goes out the window.

I think he's genuinely trying to uncover the truth, give him a bit more time. That's contradictory to what I posted earlier but we've been talking and I feel that he's trying to do the right thing, just in his own way.

This card world is very sad sometimes. Filled with greedy terrible people. I was excited to get back into this but it’s embarrassing on a daily basis watching mostly grown men be terrible people over cardboard.

Agreed and it is the main thing that has been pushing me further and further towards the door.

[discostu]

So ... apparently we've done this before (https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1001748).

And rookies did not trade directly with Eric.

"I did look into it and asked a few guys, my bad man I didnt mean you in particular honestly but clearly my wording came out that way so I am sorry. Doesnt take away from the fact the card got trimmed though I would complain to the guy who you purchased it from. If you have any questions for me you can PM me as I have the older photos."

[NeedChapmans]

Can we ban rookies now?

I’m just only to make one post on this thread in effort to clear a few thing up
1. I do not own the james harden in question, I am offered it for sale for another fellow member of the boards who offered to chime in on this discussion but I told him he didn’t have to. I just receive the card about a week ago as a BGS 10 and have never seen it before or even touched it when it was ungraded
2. @rookies, the lebron exquisite you mentioned I bought as a BGS 9, so that is two different attacks you have made toward me without evening knowing the facts or maybe asking me or someone else about it, I would appreciate you knowing looking into what you are talking about before making such strong accusations towards me.
3. I take all of my own photos and copyright them because on probably about 5+ difference occasions people have gone in and taken my photos and opened their own ebay store with my photos and listed my cards at higher prices than my asking prices. Copyrighting them was the only idea I could think to do to try to prevent this from happening. But I realize that once an image is on the web somewhere its hard to really do much to protect
4. I did politely ask minnesotachill if he could take my photo with my logo down, I am fine with having the link up that @jj2 listed, but to even suggest that I “bullied” minnesotachill is very far from the truth and also offensive to me that someone would suggest I did that.
5. I have been a member on this board since 2010 have over 180 positive feedback and probably another 100 or so that not been documented. I have made a lot of great friends and contacts through the forum and have always tried to do the right thing, while I am no means perfect I always try my best to treat people kindly and fairly and would appreciate the same in return. If anyone else has anything else they would like to address to me feel free to contact me directly, thanks

I did look into it and asked a few guys, my bad man I didnt mean you in particular honestly but clearly my wording came out that way so I am sorry. Doesnt take away from the fact the card got trimmed though I would complain to the guy who you purchased it from. If you have any questions for me you can PM me as I have the older photos.

[ThoseBackPages]

oh my!

[Siberian13]

And rookies did not trade directly with Eric.

"I did look into it and asked a few guys, my bad man I didnt mean you in particular honestly but clearly my wording came out that way so I am sorry. Doesnt take away from the fact the card got trimmed though I would complain to the guy who you purchased it from. If you have any questions for me you can PM me as I have the older photos."

So rookies has now called him out twice and admitted he was wrong. How did rookies guy forget he already called him out?

[pejc300]

Is this the thread where 27guy goes down? I've seen this script so many times. The guy NO ONE suspects, white knighting for someone else (rather bizarrely) and then bam, the truth comes out. This thread is crazy. Anyone here who thinks buynicecards aka Eric or Ebitz or whatever is not trimming these cards or at least knows who does it is out of their freaking minds. Like, 0 common sense at all. This isn't even "where there's smoke there's fire." Like, Eric's house is on fire in front of us all and everyone can see it except for one person.

This shouldn't be a newsflash to people - the high-end card business is huge money, and there are people that have posted and flaunted cleaning up cards/fixing them and getting better grades. The disappointing part is that BGS can't simply do 10 minutes of research when they get a 100k card to grade. I get that you can't catch everything, but a card like that and a little research and you can easily figure it out.

[discostu]

Can we ban rookies now?

There's definitely a need for some explaining...on both sides.

Jack clearly was misleading, but the silence of Eric is uncomfortable here. If you're holding knowingly trimmed cards without getting BGS involved or trying to rectify the situation...it's off.

Someone is going to get stuck with the trimmed Lebrons, and I have a hard time believing that Eric is going to be the one.

Regardless...it's a pretty amazing twist.

[NeedChapmans]

So rookies has now called him out twice and admitted he was wrong. How did rookies guy forget he already called him out?

IDK. But what is clear is that rookies lied about selling the card directly to Eric. He knew from the beginning what he was doing ... and perhaps hoped the receipts would never be found. Doesn't absolve Eric of always being attached to these trimmed cards; but certainly does prove rookies to be a liar.

Always amazes me what people say when the internet is forever.

[discostu]

Is this the thread where 27guy goes down? I've seen this script so many times. The guy NO ONE suspects, white knighting for someone else (rather bizarrely) and then bam, the truth comes out. This thread is crazy. Anyone here who thinks buynicecards aka Eric or Ebitz or whatever is not trimming these cards or at least knows who does it is out of their freaking minds. Like, 0 common sense at all. This isn't even "where there's smoke there's fire." Like, Eric's house is on fire in front of us all and everyone can see it except for one person.

This shouldn't be a newsflash to people - the high-end card business is huge money, and there are people that have posted and flaunted cleaning up cards/fixing them and getting better grades. The disappointing part is that BGS can't simply do 10 minutes of research when they get a 100k card to grade. I get that you can't catch everything, but a card like that and a little research and you can easily figure it out.
This should really be bolder. Maybe even larger.

[starvela]

Why does everybody only discuss the one that involves rookies, there is another one at question..So, let's pretend rookies never posted anything, there is still another at question that is even more alarming considering the details that have been found...

Again...

[pejc300]

IDK. But what is clear is that rookies lied about selling the card directly to Eric. He knew from the beginning what he was doing ... and perhaps hoped the receipts would never be found. Doesn't absolve Eric of always being attached to these trimmed cards; but certainly does prove rookies to be a liar.

Always amazes me what people say when the internet is forever.

Wait...how'd I miss this? what post #?

[NeedChapmans]

Wait...how'd I miss this? what post #?

Post #155 shows the thread from two years ago where they hashed this out already and post #158 shows the important quotes. Specifically where rookies admits he did not sell the card directly to Eric.

[jmscoggin]

Wait...how'd I miss this? what post #?

Link in post #155 of this thread. NC found a very important piece of the puzzle.

[the27guy]

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

[jmscoggin]

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

#toosoon

[the27guy]

Is this the thread where 27guy goes down? I've seen this script so many times. The guy NO ONE suspects, white knighting for someone else (rather bizarrely) and then bam, the truth

Delete your account.

Totally joking. This is fun.

Now.... back to the puzzle. Where did the card go between jack and Eric .....


Edit - Needschampmans - thanks for finding that. That’s awesome detail.

[jmscoggin]

Now.... back to the puzzle. Where did the card go between jack and Eric .....

I already gave you my guess, it was Col Mustard.

[Cavaliercards]

Delete your account.

Totally joking. This is fun.

Now.... back to the puzzle. Where did the card go between jack and Eric .....


Edit - Needschampmans - thanks for finding that. That’s awesome detail.

Any chance it went to NC? Am being 100% serious

[starvela]

Delete your account.

Totally joking. This is fun.

Now.... back to the puzzle. Where did the card go between jack and Eric .....


Edit - Needschampmans - thanks for finding that. That’s awesome detail.

And what about the other puzzle, the trimmed 87/99...?

A card that was graded with 3 other cards and some were listed or sold by BNC..?

[tmar214]

That post is telling in that he didn't trim the card but also isn't exactly him admitting that he has an altered lebron exquisite RPA. Think would be naive to not expect this card is sold as a bgs 9 at some point, whether its 5 or 50 years down the line.

[the27guy]

Any chance it went to NC? Am being 100% serious

Nope. He ain’t the guy.

[the27guy]

Spoiler Alert: THERE IS NO THIRD PARTY!

Liar liar Pants on fire

[Siberian13]

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

Maybe if you drop the 3rd party name :). I wouldn’t apologize for anything I said though. Was anything out of line and requiring an apology?

[Siberian13]

And what about the other puzzle, the trimmed 87/99...?

A card that was graded with 3 other cards that were listed or sold by BNC..?

Maybe everyone else has you blocked :)

[the27guy]

Can we ban rookies now?

No man. He made a mistake. Like I said, I think he just skipped a step and didn’t want to come out and acknowledge. Probably has no idea this thread is going bananas. He’s an asset here. I do want him to tell us who he sold it to though.

[starvela]

Maybe everyone else has you blocked :)

Perhaps :)

Hate trimmed cards!!

[discostu]

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

Delete your account.

Totally joking. This is fun.

Now.... back to the puzzle. Where did the card go between jack and Eric .....


Edit - Needschampmans - thanks for finding that. That’s awesome detail.

Apologies for what?

I don't doubt for a second that Eric is absolutely certain of the source of these trimmed cards.

[Cavaliercards]

Nope. He ain’t the guy.

Know a few key Exquisites from that year have gone through that state, so had to make sure.

[the27guy]

Maybe if you drop the 3rd party name :). I wouldn’t apologize for anything I said though. Was anything out of line and requiring an apology?

Dude. I have no idea. I’m cool with everyone.

To be honest, most of the comments were pretty tame... and mostly pretty fair. Let me just float for a minute though.


Edit *gloat

[ninjacookies]

Both of the guys in question seem like fine, upstanding citizens and contributing members of society.


It almost makes you wonder how they accumulated such a wealth of cards.

[Siberian13]

Both of the guys in question seem like fine, upstanding citizens and contributing members of society.


It almost makes you wonder how they accumulated such a wealth of cards.

I feel bad the poor guy got tricked into so many trimmed cards :)

[JayConley]

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

Why do you need apologies? The guy you adamantly defended -- because he has gotten the best of you in every trade you've ever done and that apparently makes him a good guy -- still has a website full of cards that have been trimmed. I, without a doubt, acknowledge there is a lot of variance in this spot. It could be sheer coincidence. I'm sure BNC does massive volume in high end trades, so, statistically, he has a better chance of innocently acquiring trimmed cards.

This is an insane victory lap piled on an insane white-knight effort on your part. I like reading your posts and you're usually a great contributor to the boards, but your admiration for BNC was painfully obvious from your very first post. You spent the rest of your time in this thread appealing to be an unbiased mediator, but always placed the onus on the opposing party instead of the guy who could tell you exactly where the card came from.

Every time someone interjected with "how about the other LeBron RPAs that BNC has that have evidence of being trimmed?" you brush it off with a "one at a time, guys". This is bizarre. This is either extreme naivete or sycophantic behavior. It is very unlike you.

[ninjacookies]

I feel bad the poor guy got tricked into so many trimmed cards :)

If I unknowingly dropped 6 figures on a trimmed Lebron Exq and later found out...best believe I'm going full Liam Niessen mode.

Blood will be drawn.

[Siberian13]

If I unknowingly dropped 6 figures on a trimmed Lebron Exq and later found out...best believe I'm going full Liam Niessen mode.

Blood will be drawn.

We’d both be doing 30 to life unfortunately:(

[ninjacookies]

We’d both be doing 30 to life unfortunately:(

Who said I'd do the drawing?


I know some people in Cambodia.

[the27guy]

Why do you need apologies? The guy you adamantly defended -- because he has gotten the best of you in every trade you've ever done and that apparently makes him a good guy -- still has a website full of cards that have been trimmed. I, without a doubt, acknowledge there is a lot of variance in this spot. It could be sheer coincidence. I'm sure BNC does massive volume in high end trades, so, statistically, he has a better chance of innocently acquiring trimmed cards.

This is an insane victory lap piled on an insane white-knight effort on your part. I like reading your posts and you're usually a great contributor to the boards, but your admiration for BNC was painfully obvious from your very first post. You spent the rest of your time in this thread appealing to be an unbiased mediator, but always placed the onus on the opposing party instead of the guy who could tell you exactly where the card came from.

Every time someone interjected with "how about the other LeBron RPAs that BNC has that have evidence of being trimmed?" you brush it off with a "one at a time, guys". This is bizarre. This is either extreme naivete or sycophantic behavior. It is very unlike you.

Dude. What?

My “victory lap” was just a fun post.

But to be clear, look back from page one. Read the whole thing. My question from the beginning was whether there was the possibility that there was a person between jack and Eric.

Despite like 4 pages of being told that I was wrong for questioning the guy who had posted twice, I continued to restate that I just wanted a direct answer.

And now, we know that he didn’t sell Eric the card.

Now, we get to ask (rightly so) jack to come on back in and let us know who he did sell the card to.

That’s likely who trimmed it.

Make sense?

The objective was always to find out who the trimmer was. That’s all we care about at this point.

Jack needs to come back now.

[starvela]

Every time someone interjected with "how about the other LeBron RPAs that BNC has that have evidence of being trimmed?" you brush it off with a "one at a time, guys". This is bizarre. This is either extreme naivete or sycophantic behavior. It is very unlike you.

THIS....

If I unknowingly dropped 6 figures on a trimmed Lebron Exq and later found out...best believe I'm going full Liam Niessen mode.

Blood will be drawn.

Exactly!! I'll make sure Ill tell my wife, baby, I might be doing some time after this..

[the27guy]

THIS....



Exactly!! I'll make sure Ill tell my wife, baby, I might be doing some time after this..

Dude. We’ve gotten somewhere. Don’t you see?

My guess? That Eric got both of them from the same guy who jack sold the first one to.

I didn’t want to let go of the issue at hand. We still don’t have an acknowledgment here from either Eric or jack who that person is. We still need that. My guess is that he is the bad guy.

[Siberian13]

Dude. What?

My “victory lap” was just a fun post.

But to be clear, look back from page one. Read the whole thing. My question from the beginning was whether there was the possibility that there was a person between jack and Eric.

Despite like 4 pages of being told that I was wrong for questioning the guy who had posted twice, I continued to restate that I just wanted a direct answer.

And now, we know that he didn’t sell Eric the card.

Now, we get to ask (rightly so) jack to come on back in and let us know who he did sell the card to.

That’s likely who trimmed it.

Make sense?

The objective was always to find out who the trimmer was. That’s all we care about at this point.

Jack needs to come back now.

Are you saying it went from Jack to only one party and then to Eric? Eric could also come in and state who he bought it from.

[ThoseBackPages]

Nope. He ain’t the guy.

Cavalier meant the state of NC, not Need Chapmans

[Cavaliercards]

Cavalier meant the state of NC, not Need Chapmans

Correct I meant North Carolina

[Siberian13]

Cavalier meant the state of NC, not Need Chapmans

:cry:

[the27guy]

Are you saying it went from Jack to only one party and then to Eric? Eric could also come in and state who he bought it from.

I have said at least ten times that Eric should come in. I believe that.

I don’t know how many stops it made. But I do know FOR CERTAIN that Jack has done multiple big deals with the guy who Eric told me he bought the cards from. So.... yeah.....

[discostu]

Cavalier meant the state of NC, not Need Chapmans

I think he was clearly referring to the famed NC bandit of a the hobby. A hideous douche canoe of epic proportions.

Slime-ball clown.

[the27guy]

Correct I meant North Carolina

Heck. Thank heavens for thosebackpages. He read my mind. I don’t know where he lives.

[JayConley]

Dude. What?

My “victory lap” was just a fun post.

But to be clear, look back from page one. Read the whole thing. My question from the beginning was whether there was the possibility that there was a person between jack and Eric.

Despite like 4 pages of being told that I was wrong for questioning the guy who had posted twice, I continued to restate that I just wanted a direct answer.

And now, we know that he didn’t sell Eric the card.

Now, we get to ask (rightly so) jack to come on back in and let us know who he did sell the card to.

That’s likely who trimmed it.

Make sense?

The objective was always to find out who the trimmer was. That’s all we care about at this point.

Jack needs to come back now.

I read the thread. I paid attention to your posts. I always do. You came in and immediately demanded that rookies clarify and defend his post. Now, in hindsight, your intuition was correct. Does that justify your demand? I don’t believe so.

You claimed to be withholding judgement, now you’re “ah-ha”ing. Did the “Damaged Devin Booker NT RPA” debacle teach us nothing? Was your defense of him and the anecdote about the trades between you two a little bit of storytelling? It read to me like the guy knowlingly got the better of you and then you called him “fair”. Is it one of those “guy is tough as nails but he could play on my team any day” stories? It just seems weird for you to testify on his behalf and rally against a detractor of his given your recollection of your dealings.

Furthermore, you kept saying “the card isn’t for sale currently”. Do you think he planned to hold onto it? That doesn’t seem to be his business. Do you think he will sell it now? Can you ask him if he plans to have it subbed correctly now? I’m sorry for all the questions, but this thread has my mind racing.

[Cavaliercards]

I think he was clearly referring to the famed NC bandit of a the hobby. A hideous douche canoe of epic proportions.

Slime-ball clown.

A number of High End Exquisites went into Tar Heel State one Grade and came out much better.

[ninjacookies]

My spidey senses are telling me there is no mystery 3rd party.

Perhaps 1 party. But feels like 2.

[starvela]

Dude. We’ve gotten somewhere. Don’t you see?

My guess? That Eric got both of them from the same guy who jack sold the first one to.

I didn’t want to let go of the issue at hand. We still don’t have an acknowledgment here from either Eric or jack who that person is. We still need that. My guess is that he is the bad guy.

Perhaps, but it was graded a year later with other cards that were listed by BNC...

Just saying....

[the27guy]

I read the thread. I paid attention to your posts. I always do. You came in and immediately demanded that rookies clarify and defend his post. Now, in hindsight, your intuition was correct. Does that justify your demand? I don’t believe so.

You claimed to be withholding judgement, now you’re “ah-ha”ing. Did the “Damaged Devin Booker NT RPA” debacle teach us nothing? Was your defense of him and the anecdote about the trades between you two a little bit of storytelling? It read to me like the guy knowlingly got the better of you and then you called him “fair”. Is it one of those “guy is tough as nails but he could play on my team any day” stories? It just seems weird for you to testify on his behalf and rally against a detractor of his given your recollection of your dealings.

Furthermore, you kept saying “the card isn’t for sale currently”. Do you think he planned to hold onto it? That doesn’t seem to be his business. Do you think he will sell it now? Can you ask him if he plans to have it subbed correctly now? I’m sorry for all the questions, but this thread has my mind racing.

I’m not celebrating anything early. We know there’s a third party. That’s good data. I don’t know what to say to you. I feel good about that. It gets us closer.

I’m not standing up for Eric. I’m saying that it’s possible he didn’t trim it because maybe a third party did. Hopefully we find out more now. Jack needs to come back and tell us who he sold it to.

[the27guy]

Perhaps, but it was graded a year later with other cards that were listed by BNC...

Just saying....

It’s possible that those cards were graded by the trimmer and then sold in the big collection to Eric, right?


Let me edit this and say - you’re point is a good one and worth mentioning. I’m glad that you brought it up. It may still be an important piece of evidence. Knowing a little about the side of collection that Eric bought, I would not shocked if the trimmer graded those cards, and that they were all included in the collection. That’s my guess, anyway.

[ThoseBackPages]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1BgrV6Khh1d2jBFBxG/giphy.gif

[Siberian13]

https://media.giphy.com/media/1BgrV6Khh1d2jBFBxG/giphy.gif

It’s the new triggered gif:)!

[ThoseBackPages]

Nope. He ain’t the guy.

It’s the new triggered gif:)!

that's VERY true!

[chezball]

It’s the new triggered gif:)!

no, the new #allrise.

[starvela]

It’s possible that those cards were graded by the trimmer and then sold in the big collection to Eric, right?

You said Eric said he purchased the BGS 9 74/99 in 2014..

The other trimmed 87/99 was graded in 2015 with other cards listed by BNC...

Just saying...anything is possible, unless.....

[JayConley]

It’s possible that those cards were graded by the trimmer and then sold in the big collection to Eric, right?

It’s possible Eric trimmed them, right? Occam’s razor. Isn’t it a little disrespectful to someone so intellectually advanced in the card market to immediately assume they don’t know how to identify a trimmed card? Eric literally tracks LeBron Exquisite RPAs. Does he just like the photobucket images of them or does he like the card enough to know almost everything about it. You seem to believer the former and I seem to believe the latter.

It’s a shame that rookies’ dirty laundry surfaced, we had just moved past kissing the ring and were headed for genuine discourse. I hope we can get back there.

[the27guy]

You said Eric said he purchased the BGS 9 74/99 in 2014..

The other trimmed 87/99 was graded in 2015 with other cards he listed on BNC...

Just saying...anything is possible, unless.....

That’s interesting. Good catch.

[rookies]

Without reading further than I did I'll post. This is the last post though it doesnt involve me so I shouldnt be commenting BUT.......That context of that text that was brought up by chapman was told for me to be written by someone in the BNC camp. I do not remember who though I might be able to find. So I had to mention it was altered which I did. But asked to clear his name from this trimming or else I wouldnt get any cards ever again and be blackballed. I now am in a situation of not caring about that because I get plenty cards from other members and have made some good relationships in the hobby.

The lebron was involved in a trade. The 74/99...
It was a 3 way trade. The card was ungraded. I got the card ungraded. A friend bought for me on ebay because I didnt have an account way back when I started. So those with worthpoint I think then can go and see card was ungraded on ebay at some point. I dont uncase cards and never have.

The deal was lebron card was X amount ungraded and not depending on the cards grade. It was previous graded a 9/10. I said just by miracle if card grades a 9 you owe me 3k extra and if card grades a 9.5 you owe me 10k extra. TO which was agreed. This card and this 3 way deal was involved with myself, eric, and sohrob. I was getting a 9.5 lebron 03 LL some other cards and cash. I sent out cards, Eric in return was going to send to BGS ASAP. Card graded a 7.5 or 8 actually I think texts from sohrob said (so my memory was wrong on the 7.5 grade). So I wasnt going to get any money added. Which I said oh okay fine. Then card pops up as a 9/10 and is trimmed. On BNC website. You let me know where I went wrong. I got the texts from Sohrob confirming all this. From 2014 or whenever it was. Including more recent texts with me asking where my 3k was because card got a 9/10 grade. Which was hit back with a "he got lucky bro he sends in lots of cards"

[starvela]

.....

[starvela]

That’s interesting. Good catch.

Finally!!

[jmscoggin]

It’s possible Eric trimmed them, right? Occam’s razor.

I've been waiting four pages for someone to post this. All the twisting and turning and speculating when the simplest explanation is almost always the truthful explanation. Jack muddied up the waters good which didn't help but Eric is the one that everything points to for the trimming.

[Siberian13]

Without reading further than I did I'll post. This is the last post though it doesnt involve me so I shouldnt be commenting BUT.......That context of that text that was brought up by chapman was told for me to be written by someone in the BNC camp. I do not remember who though I might be able to find. So I had to mention it was altered which I did. But asked to clear his name from this trimming or else I wouldnt get any cards ever again and be blackballed. I now am in a situation of not caring about that because I get plenty cards from other members and have made some good relationships in the hobby.

The lebron was involved in a trade. The 74/99...
It was a 3 way trade. The card was ungraded. I got the card ungraded. A friend bought for me on ebay because I didnt have an account way back when I started. So those with worthpoint I think then can go and see card was ungraded on ebay at some point. I dont uncase cards and never have.

The deal was lebron card was X amount ungraded and not depending on the cards grade. It was previous graded a 9/10. I said just by miracle if card grades a 9 you owe me 3k extra and if card grades a 9.5 you owe me 10k extra. TO which was agreed. This card and this 3 way deal was involved with myself, eric, and sohrob. I was getting a 9.5 lebron 03 LL some other cards and cash. I sent out cards, Eric in return was going to send to BGS ASAP. Card graded a 7.5 or 8 actually I think texts from sohrob said (so my memory was wrong on the 7.5 grade). So I wasnt going to get any money added. Which I said oh okay fine. Then card pops up as a 9/10 and is trimmed. On BNC website. You let me know where I went wrong. I got the texts from Sohrob confirming all this. From 2014 or whenever it was. Including more recent texts with me asking where my 3k was because card got a 9/10 grade. Which was hit back with a "he got lucky bro he sends in lots of cards"

Is sohrob a member on BO? This story is just crazy, I need some sleep eventually.

[the27guy]

It’s possible Eric trimmed them, right? Occam’s razor. Isn’t it a little disrespectful to someone so intellectually advanced in the card market to immediately assume they don’t know how to identify a trimmed card? Eric literally tracks LeBron Exquisite RPAs. Does he just like the photobucket images of them or does he like the card enough to know almost everything about it. You seem to believer the former and I seem to believe the latter.

It’s a shame that rookies’ dirty laundry surfaced, we had just moved past kissing the ring and were headed for genuine discourse. I hope we can get back there.

Feels like you’re just coming at me. I don’t get it. My soul goal here is to figure out who trimmed the cards. I don’t think it’s Eric, but if it is, then it is. We need to figure it out.

We agree on one thing. Let’s figure out who did the bad thing. Paging Eric and Jack.....


I’m hitting the hay. Gnight everybody. Go blowout go.

[rookies]

If BGS can get involved case is solved. I know when the card was sent in roughly and graded a 8. If it was sent in by Eric then guess what?

[Siberian13]

If BGS can get involved case is solved. I know when the card was sent in roughly and graded a 8. If it was sent in by Eric then guess what?

Just gets crazier each post. Fun stuff

[the27guy]

Thank you, jack. I appreciate you taking the time to post.

Sohrob was who Eric told me sold him the card.

I have no other info.

[JayConley]

FINALLY! We have clarification. Jack did the trade and the card went to sohrob then ended up with Guy X probably in a dingy and dark alley where sohrob mistook him for Eric. Then, Guy X trimmed it and subbed it and some other sick, highly-coveted cards that BNC has. After that, he reached out to BNC. BNC, adorable and innocent, shrugged and said “hey man, I thought I traded for this card a while back and wow thanks for getting my cards graded for me. Why don’t I buy them from you anyways like they were yours?”.

Closure feels sweet.

[Siberian13]

So did Sohrob have it graded an 8 then Eric got it bumped to a 9? My head hurts

[the27guy]

One confusing thing Jack. Did the card ever go to Sohrob?

[rookies]

Thank you, jack. I appreciate you taking the time to post.

Sohrob was who Eric told me sold him the card.

I have no other info.

Sohrob was the middle man connecting us in the trade.

Unless sohrob says hes the guy who trimmed it? And oh boy I promise you he wont.

Im not reading through 10 pages of this tomorrow I am done. DONE D_O_N_E


Also to Chapman pretty amazing loyalty you got, guy.

[Siberian13]

Sohrob was the middle man connecting us in the trade.

Unless sohrob says hes the guy who trimmed it? And oh boy I promise you he wont.

Im not reading through 10 pages of this tomorrow I am done. DONE D_O_N_E


Also to Chapman pretty amazing loyalty you got, guy.

It’s hard to read the Harden thread without knowing what you said happened in private messages. In that thread, it looks like you made a mistake and owned up to it.

[JayConley]

One confusing thing Jack. Did the card ever go to Sohrob?

I’m not coming at you. You have genuine gravity on these boards. You unwittingly endorsing someone that, at the very least, is the common denominator in a lot of shadiness is hazardous to your stated end goal.

And, to touch on the message above, it kind of doesn’t matter if it went to sohrob. It has been stated it was a 3-way trade and Eric was getting the card then sending to BGS ASAP. If it went to sohrob first and he trimmed it, Eric still knowingly would have sent the trimmed card in. Cards don’t just have chunks missing on the edges that magically disappear when you put them in the postal system.

[cowboyzqna]

Welp. Both parties are squeaky clean after all. That sohrob guys fault.

Love the "trayway" twist. Good stuff.

[the27guy]

Sohrob was the middle man connecting us in the trade.

Unless sohrob says hes the guy who trimmed it? And oh boy I promise you he wont.

Im not reading through 10 pages of this tomorrow I am done. DONE D_O_N_E


Also to Chapman pretty amazing loyalty you got, guy.

Thanks dude. Appreciate that.

This three way trade is very different from what Eric told me. He said that he purchased it as part of sohrobs collection.

So I don’t really know where we go from here.

We have all of the parties in play. But even the versions of how they got to Eric are different.

I’m glad jack came back though.

My brain hurts.

Okay, truly, I’m going to bed. Anybody know if sohrob is a member?

[Siberian13]

Thanks dude. Appreciate that.

This three way trade is very different from what Eric told me. He said that he purchased it as part of sohrobs collection.

So I don’t really know where we go from here.

We have all of the parties in play. But even the versions of how they got to Eric are different.

I’m glad jack came back though.

My brain hurts.

Okay, truly, I’m going to bed. Anybody know if sohrob is a member?

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

:):):)

[the27guy]

Ahem. Accepting apologies.

Cough cough.

:):):)

Lol. I’m still going to bed.

For what? There was a third party. Nailed it!

Somebody here is dirty. Can we get mcGahee involved. He always figures these things out.

[discostu]

I don't know Jack/rookies, but the fact that he's here...and has addressed the clearly differing information from what he posted in 2016 and now and why he posted it...it seems plausible.

Definitely more plausible that there is some element of covering up based upon who has a vested interest in the trimming and who doesn't.

That said, regardless of Jack's specifics on the matter...Eric has known since at least 2016 that this card was trimmed. But probably earlier.

He's not responding here for a reason.

He wants to bury the topic for a reason.

Those are reasons to keep the thread rocking.

[Siberian13]

Lol. I’m still going to bed.

For what? There was a third party. Nailed it!

Somebody here is dirty. Can we get mcGahee involved. He always figures these things out.

It would just be a bloodbath if he got involved. :)

[JayConley]

Lol. I’m still going to bed.

For what? There was a third party. Nailed it!

Somebody here is dirty. Can we get mcGahee involved. He always figures these things out.

Can tell you that I shot him a text and he immediately told me that rookies original story wasn’t what he saw him post previously but that BNC sure has a lot of trimmed cards for him to be completely innocent. I know he rubs people the wrong way and has some quirks, but the guy could legitimately be a sports card forum historian.

[pejc300]

So just to be clear, Sohrob is Keyser Soze, right?

https://media.giphy.com/media/VbvjcQp6cYYYE/giphy.gif

[abidtsteele]

Nothing really to add. Thanks for an entertaining BO detective thread, I ate popcorn and everything.

[Siberian13]

Is sohrob his eBay name or something? I didn’t see that name listed on BO?

[theLUCKYshow]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/c3a20c283a6cf99f9715afe7fea51329.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[pejc300]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/c3a20c283a6cf99f9715afe7fea51329.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

He can't be bothered, but I found a recent video of him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Pdt6c5tpHcqnm/giphy.gif

[JayConley]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/c3a20c283a6cf99f9715afe7fea51329.jpg

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I feel like he could show up with a blade and a ruler (or whatever these really skilled trimmers use) in his pocket and the27guy would say “those probably aren’t even his pants!” Really weird situation. I suppose it just pertains to never meeting your heroes.

[chezball]

The fact that eric isn't in here is pretty telling.

[theLUCKYshow]

He can't be bothered, but I found a recent video of him.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Pdt6c5tpHcqnm/giphy.gif...and "Cut!"

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[the27guy]

I feel like he could show up with a blade and a ruler (or whatever these really skilled trimmers use) in his pocket and the27guy would say “those probably aren’t even his pants!” Really weird situation. I suppose it just pertains to never meeting your heroes.

Man if Eric did it, then you guys gotta get him! I asked him point blank today and he said that he did not trim the card. And then he told me that he didn’t even get it from jack. At least one thing was true. But man. This situation = crappy.


Just got a pm from a good member here.

Sohrob’s name here is “2infnitynbeyond”. Looks like he hasn’t posted in like 3 years.

K, my wife is getting mad. Phone down now.

[pejc300]

The fact that eric isn't in here is pretty telling.

The fact that he signed on tonight and hasn't posted is even more telling.

[JayConley]

And just to show that I’m not piling on here, I’ll say this: if rookies story is legitimate (I think it is) then he had implicit knowledge, or, at least, reason to believe the card was to be trimmed. Otherwise, a 3k for BGS9 or 10k for 9.5 trade kicker would make no sense. It had very clear (and demonstrated) damage and would be drawing completely dead to those grades if sent in unaltered.

[jmscoggin]

Man if Eric did it, then you guys gotta get him! I asked him point blank today and he said that he did not trim the card. And then he told me that he didn’t even get it from jack. At least one thing was true.

He may not have lied, maybe he didn't trim the card so that would have been a truthful answer to that specific question. No way he wasn't involved though and that is a different question entirely. When you talk to him tomorrow, maybe now that the first one is mostly solved, now you can ask him about the second one. It boggles my mind that you're still giving him any benefit of the doubt but at least you've opened your mind a bit to the reality of what really happened.

[Siberian13]

And just to show that I’m not piling on here, I’ll say this: if rookies story is legitimate (I think it is) then he had implicit knowledge, or, at least, reason to believe the card was to be trimmed. Otherwise, a 3k for BGS9 or 10k for 9.5 trade kicker would make no sense. It had very clear (and demonstrated) damage and would be drawing completely dead to those grades if sent in unaltered.

That’s a good point. All parties involved had to know there was no way the card was getting those grades.

[Siberian13]

Bedtime. See you guys tomorrow :)

[chezball]

Bedtime. See you guys tomorrow :)

wimp.