One of many reasons I just can’t right now with this hobby...

[derder]

I was into this Wilt and if it stayed under 4 I might have taken it home but then I look at my watch list and see the LeBron ending around the same time and the price!?!?!?

I know the wilt has its detractors and I understand the reasoning the LeBron is a high dollar card but in what real world are these two cards 1000 apart?

This hobby has just gotten stupid with its price points... people need to collect more than invest because I and I’m sure several others are being priced out...

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[rainmaker]

whats your point? 4,000 for a wilt cut auto seems really high. the lebron card is far more desirable for plenty of reasons. and 25% less...

[KnicksLife]

So you are saying the Lebron shouldn't have fetched for $3K and should have been less? Or the Wilt is over-priced?

[KnicksLife]

whats your point? 4,000 for a wilt cut auto seems really high. the lebron card is far more desirable for plenty of reasons. and 25% less...

And don't forget it's #23/23. eBay 1/1 Jersey # :p

[Jasondr91]

You've been around long enough to know!

One is a cut Wilt auto, the other is a jersey numbered Lebron on card auto that was another massively shilled PWCC auction.

I am sorry you weren't able to snag the Wilt though.

[arod305]

whats your point? 4,000 for a wilt cut auto seems really high. the lebron card is far more desirable for plenty of reasons. and 25% less...

^^^

Not sure what point you're making at all. The Lebron being 23/23 holds a lot of value to some as well. Don't think anyone cares about Panini Eminence, so $4k is strong IMO

[asujbl]

Ignoring the PWCC aspect of this (just going card for card)

I'd much rather have LeBron than I would Wilt... regardless of price.

So is the complaint that you think Wilt should sell for more than LeBron (meaning more than $1,000 more) because it's 4/10 and it's Wilt? Because I'd say the opposite... That LeBron should sell for more, or close the gap, with Wilt.

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

[derder]

i just dont think my head will ever wrap around the prices cards are going for now... Rooks are automatically priced crazy high because the cost of the box is high, not because of any displayed potential.

maybe it's because i'm a 90's-00's dinosaur but if i had to rebuy my cards today, i couldnt do it. and if i could, i wouldnt.

i just dont think that lebron should be anywhere close to a 3000 card... and i love UD Black, it's one of my favorite sets all time.

[brettmik59]

maybe it's because i'm a 90's-00's dinosaur but if i had to rebuy my cards today, i couldnt do it. and if i could, i wouldnt.

I can sympathize with that.

[asujbl]

i just dont think my head will ever wrap around the prices cards are going for now... Rooks are automatically priced crazy high because the cost of the box is high, not because of any displayed potential.

maybe it's because i'm a 90's-00's dinosaur but if i had to rebuy my cards today, i couldnt do it. and if i could, i wouldnt.

i just dont think that lebron should be anywhere close to a 3000 card... and i love UD Black, it's one of my favorite sets all time.

Price points have changed which is why initial prices have changed... but the underlying concept isn't any different now than 30 years ago.

I'm a much older dinosaur than you are and rookies, no matter the year, have always sold for more out of the gate. Even when that player has proved nothing. That isn't new.

I don't know how old you were in 1992 but you don't even want to know what people were paying (relatively at the time compared to other options) for a Shaquille O'Neal Topps RC.

If you don't think LeBron should be a $3,000 card that's OK... but there are also a ton of people (myself included) that don't think Wilt should be a $4,000 card

If that helps you sleep.

[sammyjankis]

It's weird to see Michael Jordan and LeBron auto cards that used to be $100-350 going for thousands.

Other copies of this card NOT numbered 23/23 sold for $350 or less until 2013 and have been $1500-2000 over the last year and a half. If the true market for this card is ~$2000, is his jersey number worth another $1000? Not to me, but there are some people out there with deep pockets who are willing to pay.

A Michael Jordan auto card I bought for $300 in 2005 is worth ~$2500 now. I have to shake my head at it but I get it.

Part of this is shilling and hyping, part of it is Upper Deck losing the NBA license, and part is more money entering the hobby from an investment standpoint.

I'm not sure people will ever learn with the rookie hype though. For the 100 Tyreke Evans hype trains, there are only a few guys like Stephen Curry that will slip through the cracks.

These $50 Kevin Durant autos might be $1000 in 15 years. Who knows?

[Orangejello727]

Id rather have that Wilt over the Lebron. THere are over 500,000 Lebron autos floating out there and more to come. By the time its all said and done, there will be nothing special about todays players autographs. Just chicken scratch!!

[isles4life]

It's weird to see Michael Jordan and LeBron auto cards that used to be $100-350 going for thousands.

Other copies of this card NOT numbered 23/23 sold for $350 or less until 2013 and have been $1500-2000 over the last year and a half. If the true market for this card is ~$2000, is his jersey number worth another $1000? Not to me, but there are some people out there with deep pockets who are willing to pay.

A Michael Jordan auto card I bought for $300 in 2005 is worth ~$2500 now. I have to shake my head at it but I get it.

Part of this is shilling and hyping, part of it is Upper Deck losing the NBA license, and part is more money entering the hobby from an investment standpoint.

I'm not sure people will ever learn with the rookie hype though. For the 100 Tyreke Evans hype trains, there are only a few guys like Stephen Curry that will slip through the cracks.

These $50 Kevin Durant autos might be $1000 in 15 years. Who knows?

Upper Deck having the exclusives with MJ and LeBron; and not being able to produce NBA cards anymore really drove those markets up. They are becoming more and more scarce as years go by and it remains to be seen if we will ever see auto’d cards of theirs again. It’s been nearly 10 years since we’ve seen an NBA licensed LeBron or MJ auto, let that sink in. Unfortunately, I believe those prices will keep rising since I dont see Upper Deck giving up those exclusives.

I feel like every set has multiple KD autos, that market is completely saturated.

Im wondering how the Barkley panini signing is affecting his 90’s auto prices? that may be a good indicator for prices if we ever see more MJ or LBJ autos.

[Orangejello727]

Upper Deck having the exclusives with MJ and LeBron; and not being able to produce NBA cards anymore really drove those markets up. They are becoming more and more scarce as years go by and it remains to be seen if we will ever see auto’d cards of theirs again. It’s been nearly 10 years since we’ve seen an NBA licensed LeBron or MJ auto, let that sink in. Unfortunately, I believe those prices will keep rising since I dont see Upper Deck giving up those exclusives.

I feel like every set has multiple KD autos, that market is completely saturated.

Im wondering how the Barkley panini signing is affecting his 90’s auto prices? that may be a good indicator for prices if we ever see more MJ or LBJ autos.

They arent becoming more scarce. They are being hoarded. There is a big difference. I wish people knew the difference. THere are a lot of MJ and Lebron autos out there. Those who own them dictate the price and they are demanding lots of $$$ for them. But they arent scarce. There are 500 listings under "lebron auto" on ebay. There are 17 listings under "wilt auto" on ebay.

Go to the nationals this year and let me know if you dont see any Lebron autos. If you do see them, let me know how many!!! :)!:)!:)!

THere are just as many Lebron autos out there as there were last year. They just happen to be held by fewer people which is driving the price up because of the limitation of whom you can purchase them from!! Thats how it works!!

[dgbarnes]

Based on recent Lebron CAVS uni autos, that price doesn't seem to far off. A jersey numbered auto for Bron is huge in a lot of collector's minds. Also, it being a high end product like UD Black makes it feel like thats in the right ballpark tbh.

[Southpas2013]

They arent becoming more scarce. They are being hoarded. There is a big difference. I wish people knew the difference. THere are a lot of MJ and Lebron autos out there. Those who own them dictate the price and they are demanding lots of $$$ for them. But they arent scarce. There are 500 listings under "lebron auto" on ebay. There are 17 listings under "wilt auto" on ebay.

Go to the nationals this year and let me know if you dont see any Lebron autos. If you do see them, let me know how many!!! :)!:)!:)!

THere are just as many Lebron autos out there as there were last year. They just happen to be held by fewer people which is driving the price up because of the limitation of whom you can purchase them from!! Thats how it works!!




The demand for Lebron autos is higher than the demand for the Wilts. If there only 17 autos for Lebron they’d be going for 10k or more.

There is a finite number of Lebron autos, there are none being produced, and there is a high demand which is driving and keeping the price up. As he gets climbs up the all time scoring list , Kobe is next and he will be passed half way their next season, he’ll get another surge in demand which will drive all of his card prices up not just the autos. The new generation collectors don’t care about Wilt they never saw him play.


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Available FS/FT: https://flickr.com/photos/167966454@N05/sets/72157707008215281

[Orangejello727]

The demand for Lebron autos is higher than the demand for the Wilts. If there only 17 autos for Lebron they’d be going for 10k or more.

There is a finite number of Lebron autos, there are none being produced, and there is a high demand which is driving and keeping the price up. As he gets climbs up the all time scoring list , Kobe is next and he will be passed half way their next season, he’ll get another surge in demand which will drive all of his card prices up not just the autos. The new generation collectors don’t care about Wilt they never saw him play.


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Available FS/FT: https://flickr.com/photos/167966454@N05/sets/72157707008215281

Again... more and more scarce is not the term. Its better to state demand is growing with more people wanting them. That is not the same as saying there are less and less of them.

When 10 people want an apple and there only 3. They are scarce. When 20 people want an apple and there are only 3. There is not less and less of them the next year!! There is just more demand. If there were only 2 apples the following year, that would mean there are less.

[WaiverWire]

One nice thing about this hobby is that it’s easy to get out of and take breaks from. If the price point is too high, it’s okay to pass.

Also, with all the various threads about trimmed and altered cards, I don’t really have much of an appetite for it right now.

[isles4life]

Again... more and more scarce is not the term. Its better to state demand is growing with more people wanting them. That is not the same as saying there are less and less of them.

When 10 people want an apple and there only 3. They are scarce. When 20 people want an apple and there are only 3. There is not less and less of them the next year!! There is just more demand. If there were only 2 apples the following year, that would mean there are less.

Maybe there are the same amount, but less are becoming available. The longer this goes on, the more valuable they will become. They will get locked up in PC’s. Contrary to players like Kobe and Durant where literally thousands are being pumped out every year.

You can say there are 500 LeBron autos but how many are actual cards? how many are licensed? how many are real?

[Orangejello727]

Maybe there are the same amount, but less are becoming available. The longer this goes on, the more valuable they will become. They will get locked up in PC’s. Contrary to players like Kobe and Durant where literally thousands are being pumped out every year.

You can say there are 500 LeBron autos but how many are actual cards? how many are licensed? how many are real?

Ahh so what you're saying is there are less and less availabe every year.. One day there will be none left out there for sale! Let me know when that is :D:D


How many times have we heard.. "Locked up, never to be seen again"

[rittdk01]

i just dont think my head will ever wrap around the prices cards are going for now... Rooks are automatically priced crazy high because the cost of the box is high, not because of any displayed potential.

maybe it's because i'm a 90's-00's dinosaur but if i had to rebuy my cards today, i couldnt do it. and if i could, i wouldnt.

i just dont think that lebron should be anywhere close to a 3000 card... and i love UD Black, it's one of my favorite sets all time.

Yeah the boxes are so expensive that they have to charge thousands to recoup. If you tell an average person that you spent over 3k for a new card they would look at you like you’re an idiot. When I bought a house I was priced out of ball cards.
House, cars, wife and kid>Ball cards

But, there’s still a spot in the hobby even on a budget.

[isles4life]

Ahh so what you're saying is there are less and less availabe every year.. One day there will be none left out there for sale! Let me know when that is :D:D


How many times have we heard.. "Locked up, never to be seen again"

Going to have to agree to disagree here. There are few things that I see climbing in this hobby and MJ and LeBron licensed autos are two of them.


Back on the thread topic though. I completely understand. I also collect 12-13 prizm golds and when Eric Gordons are going for $150 and Jajuan Johnson (who?) are going for $75, I know Im pretty much priced out of that set at this point lol. Hopefully they start coming down soon.

[derder]

Yeah the boxes are so expensive that they have to charge thousands to recoup. If you tell an average person that you spent over 3k for a new card they would look at you like you’re an idiot. When I bought a house I was priced out of ball cards.
House, cars, wife and kid>Ball cards

But, there’s still a spot in the hobby even on a budget.

saving up for a house now... i'm glad i got my jordan/bron auto's out of the way already...

what i have to battle now is the urge to sell them to make the house purchase easier...

[AbraCalabro]

Ahh so what you're saying is there are less and less availabe every year.. One day there will be none left out there for sale! Let me know when that is :D:D


How many times have we heard.. "Locked up, never to be seen again"

I heard that about cards of some guy named Jordan, but the weird thing is I see the same people at National in photos with STACKS upon STACKS of these cards, not for sale (at the right price.)

[smalltown]

House, cars, wife and kid>Ball cards

Always. Life is first. Hobby is second.

But, there’s still a spot in the hobby even on a budget.

And this is very true. Need look no further than the Poverty Thread. You can get incredible cards at every price point.

[miamitrev2]

I was into this Wilt and if it stayed under 4 I might have taken it home but then I look at my watch list and see the LeBron ending around the same time and the price!?!?!?

I know the wilt has its detractors and I understand the reasoning the LeBron is a high dollar card but in what real world are these two cards 1000 apart?

This hobby has just gotten stupid with its price points... people need to collect more than invest because I and I’m sure several others are being priced out...

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Can't what, "can't even"?
/isimplycant.gif

[gomiamigo]

There is a finite number of Lebron autos, there are none being produced, and there is a high demand which is driving and keeping the price up.

I don't know quite how to tell you this, but....there is a finite # of Wilt autos and there will never be any more produced.

Whereas any day in the future, if not soon, there could be an announcement of new Lebron NBA autos.

[Bobbyplaza133]

https://media.tenor.com/images/6c9f512eead04b8a8293f2b334155e5b/tenor.gif

[cornelljw]

I feel you man. Biggest thing I dislike about ebay is the low consequences for shilling or cancelling an order. More people seem to be doing these kind of schemes on ebay which can manipulate the market. A simple step ladder consequence of banning people who dont pay could resolve this. Like 1st offence = 3 days no ebay, 2nd offence = 1 week no ebay, 3rd offence = 1 month no ebay etc etc etc...

Ebay won't do this however because it affects their bottom line and the collectors pay the consequence. It seems like its getting harder and harder to distinguish real sales from shills.

[cornelljw]

It's even worse when people want to "PROTECT" their investments. They will purposely bid up an item and not pay to give off the illusion that their card is worth more than it really is. I mean rreally what is the downside of doing that? Ebay just gives you a slap on the wrist and then says carry on

[Brobocop]

Isn't the Wilt vs LeBron values simply just, today's generation is watching LeBron play whereas they probably never saw Wilt play?

[COMCMax]

double post..

[COMCMax]

Deleted. Horrible post. bleh

[cornelljw]

The demand for Lebron autos is higher than the demand for the Wilts. If there only 17 autos for Lebron they’d be going for 10k or more.

There is a finite number of Lebron autos, there are none being produced, and there is a high demand which is driving and keeping the price up. As he gets climbs up the all time scoring list , Kobe is next and he will be passed half way their next season, he’ll get another surge in demand which will drive all of his card prices up not just the autos. The new generation collectors don’t care about Wilt they never saw him play.


______________________________________________________
Available FS/FT: https://flickr.com/photos/167966454@N05/sets/72157707008215281

The hobby isnt just "new generation" buyers. New Generation can also be interested in vintage depending on their preferences. There are other collectors who appreciate history and see its value. Most people who own Mickey Mantle cards never saw him play so why do they buy Mickey Mantle?

Salvator Mundi from Leonardo Da Vinci sold for $450 million in 2017. Lebron is still alive and can still sign autos in the future if he so desires which will increase the supply. Wilt Chamberlain is dead so there is a finite of autos. The supply of Wilt autos will never change.

[Wiseysez]

Should have said unaltered/unconserved Lebrons are becoming scarcer every year.

[Ross]

Wilt has 471 total pack issued on card autos. That’s it. The cuts are meh and that’s always been true, bc it’s just a piece of a picture that he could have signed thousands of. But from a pack issued perspective wilt has and will only ever have 471.

That said lebron is curious bc he hasn’t signed nba license cards in 10+ years and he’s so well off that his time is worth more not signing his name than it is signing his name. For that reason I think cavs stuff continues to appreciate.


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[kingofsnake]

Wilt has 471 total pack issued on card autos. That’s it. The cuts are meh and that’s always been true, bc it’s just a piece of a picture that he could have signed thousands of. But from a pack issued perspective wilt has and will only ever have 471.

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Hi Ross, how did you get to the number 471? Just curious as I thought that the number was higher. Any insight would be appreciated - thanks.

[tmar214]

I'd much rather have the lebron than the wilt. At first I thought the point being made is its crazy that the cut auto goes for more than the lebron. That UD black set is very sought after and one of the cleaner designs. Throw in it being jersey numbered and its a unique card.


The wilt is a nice enough looking card but for a couple thousand more you can get an on card version.

[COMCMax]

Should have said unaltered/unconserved Lebrons are becoming scarcer every year.

I would say these days wax is the safest bet ,but I wonder how many of my wax boxes/cases have junk 90s filled packs lol

[Southpas2013]

I don't know quite how to tell you this, but....there is a finite # of Wilt autos and there will never be any more produced.

Whereas any day in the future, if not soon, there could be an announcement of new Lebron NBA autos.



That is true he could start signing at any moment if panini ever tried to reach a deal and same goes with Michael Jordan.

But for now, again, the demand is supporting his prices. (Aside from all the shilling that goes on for all players/cards, which we cannot control).


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[k13]

These $50 Kevin Durant autos might be $1000 in 15 years. Who knows?

No chance.
Closer to $25 than the other way around.

[sammyjankis]

No chance.
Closer to $25 than the other way around.

I don't actually think Kevin Durant autos will be $1000. I'm saying that when Upper Deck was pumping out LeBron autos in every set (to the point that I bought a few for ~$100 each), I never would have guessed that those same cards would be $1000+ 10 years later.

Kevin Durant is a soft man but he's one of the best basketball players alive. If he stopped signing tomorrow, who knows how much his autos will be worth in 10 years.

[WillBBC]

You might be underestimating just how famous LeBron is. Which seems impossible. Also, not having a certified autograph in an NBA uniform for years has made those early autographs of his super, super expensive.

Also, nobody's forcing any collector to shell out money for anything. This is 100% a voluntary hobby. and as others have stated, there's a way to collect for every budget.

[dgbarnes]

I don't actually think Kevin Durant autos will be $1000. I'm saying that when Upper Deck was pumping out LeBron autos in every set (to the point that I bought a few for ~$100 each), I never would have guessed that those same cards would be $1000+ 10 years later.



Kevin Durant is a soft man but he's one of the best basketball players alive. If he stopped signing tomorrow, who knows how much his autos will be worth in 10 years.


Every additional year that KD signs moving forward will only lessen the likelihood his autos get to that point imo. Lebron has NBA uni autos from 2003-2009 while KD has been signing for both Panini and UD from 2007-2019. So roughly twice the number of years.

Of course this doesn’t get us to raw numbers, but KD seems to have autos in every product.




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[Southpas2013]

Every additional year that KD signs moving forward will only lessen the likelihood his autos get to that point imo. Lebron has NBA uni autos from 2003-2009 while KD has been signing for both Panini and UD from 2007-2019. So roughly twice the number of years.

Of course this doesn’t get us to raw numbers, but KD seems to have autos in every product.




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I’d like to see KD slow down in his signings . He has waaaay too many and they just don’t hold much value.

Just like panini and Aaron Judge. Over saturated with autos in every product and rainbow and color. , etc .....


______________________________________________________
Available FS/FT: https://flickr.com/photos/167966454@N05/sets/72157707008215281

[FBGuy13]

I've been seeing a lot of these kind of threads or comments about "I just can't believe the prices right now - these used to sell for so much less". It really is this simple - and people just need to understand this in the big picture. We have a sports card MARKET - these cards are essentially pieces of stock. Similar to the stock market, some will feel the cards are undervalued (and buy), and some will feel they are overvalued (and sell). In the end, it never matters if someone can't believe current prices - the prices are what they are, because the supply/demand dictates it. I think a lot of people are disappointed and feeling they are "priced out" of certain markets (like the high end / best players in basketball). The beauty of this hobby/business/market - is there are so many ways to enjoy it. If prices are too high for someone, then go after lower dollar stuff that doesn't fluctuate as much.

Just seems to be more disappointed people not believing current prices. The hobby and prices are strong right now - and does not appear to be slowing on the best players. And no matter what anyone "thinks" - in the end it doesn't matter - transactions will continue to occur, some stuff in demand will rise higher and quicker than others. My best advice - if feeling frustrated, either take a break, or pivot and try to enjoy the hobby/market in a different way. It can be fun trying to speculate on low dollar RCs - think Giannis - he was a $5 rc - and rose up to $20-$40 even for his low end rookies. Same happened to Christian Yelich - and many others. It doesn't always take $1,000's of dollars to have fun and also make a little investing in the current market. We all have to understand though no matter what we personally think, the market is what it is!

[volblorx8634]

I’d like to see KD slow down in his signings . He has waaaay too many and they just don’t hold much value.

Just like panini and Aaron Judge. Over saturated with autos in every product and rainbow and color. , etc .....


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Available FS/FT: https://flickr.com/photos/167966454@N05/sets/72157707008215281

Which I think is awesome. Maybe they don't hold value, but isn't it a good thing that a collector who wants a KD auto can get one for what $60-$70 for a low end sticker Panini auto? That's really cool for KD fans. I wouldn't want to have to spend hundreds of dollars to have the chance at an auto.

[thenwhatjk]

Bruh how about instead of dropping 4k on wilt you come to a Chicago national ONE TIME

[kukocitb]

Bruh how about instead of dropping 4k on wilt you come to a Chicago national ONE TIME

I second this! #getderdertotheNATIONAL

[dgbarnes]

Which I think is awesome. Maybe they don't hold value, but isn't it a good thing that a collector who wants a KD auto can get one for what $60-$70 for a low end sticker Panini auto? That's really cool for KD fans. I wouldn't want to have to spend hundreds of dollars to have the chance at an auto.



I’ve kind of assumed this is KDs way of healing his image a bit. But I agree, although it’s a lot, it’s refreshing to think that a young kid in HS could save up 70 dollars and snag a KD Auto.


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