Flippers can be so douchey

[hairyangryfella]

This poorly advertised card ended just two hours ago -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-National-Treasures-Kevin-Huerter-/163691301666?nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=TcZyv4gfWOl2%252Fk3g7DRRf9Kf09g%253D&orig_cvip=true

And is ALREADY being flipped by the winner despite them not possibly having it in hand -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-National-Treasures-FOTL-RPA-20-Kevin-Huerter-Hawks-MINT-RC-Patch-AUTO/113761426607?hash=item1a7cb59caf:g:VYkAAOSwgaNc6ZRm

Also, their price is based on the only one that has sold thus far, when one person was going for all the parallels and paying high for them.

I dislike flipping but I know it's part of things these days. I just find this completely arrogant - using the original seller's picture and listing it before you even have it. Hopefully something happens in transit....

[Ferg1945]

They will sell for $500 and think they did great. Not factoring in the fees and shipping/insurance and break even. lol

[Gem10collection]

My background is financial markets and traders are a valuable part of the ecosystem. They provide liquidity and the they help in the price discovery process. As long as they are not lying, stealing, or manipulating we should be appreciative of them not scorn them.

[lietuvalabas]

My background is financial markets and traders are a valuable part of the ecosystem. They provide liquidity and the they help in the price discovery process. As long as they are not lying, stealing, or manipulating we should be appreciative of them not scorn them.

I agree as I am a flipper myself, but yeah have the card in hand atleast. Seller could not ship as someone on blowout has probably already messaged him due to this thread..but too many factors until card is in the mailbox so making a deal with a buyer and then having to say "well i don't have it" doesn't go over well.

[thecomebacker]

Yep, OP has a point. Have the card in hand.

[NickRadz23]

I agree he should have it in hand, otherwise I wouldn’t care if somebody was trying to flip my card. If you can get more for it then props to you.

[coltsnsox07]

The douche in question is:
'seasportscollectibles' in Mill Creek, Washington

[ljandkg]

Someone should ask for close up pics of the corners.

[nman84]

What are the odds phdbeckett gets involved here

[laynoles]

are Huerter cards really flying off the shelf that fast where you have to sell before you receive? maybe seller has inside info on Huerters rapid improvement so far this offseason...sellers do the same with panini instant too so its whatever

[xmfx]

My background is financial markets and traders are a valuable part of the ecosystem. They provide liquidity and the they help in the price discovery process. As long as they are not lying, stealing, or manipulating we should be appreciative of them not scorn them.
Eli5 please.

Does this mean that flippers basically get the sales going to find the true price of a card. IE, they get a FOTL and instantly list, the first one might be high but then each one after drops a little then find a settling point (or opposite and goes up in price)?

[imbaked247]

My background is financial markets and traders are a valuable part of the ecosystem. They provide liquidity and the they help in the price discovery process. As long as they are not lying, stealing, or manipulating we should be appreciative of them not scorn them.

WRONG anybody who sells something they dont own are not valuable they are manipulating the market for self gains with the safety net of saying that they dont have said product yet. And for that huge obvious factor should be scorned .

[hairyangryfella]

are Huerter cards really flying off the shelf that fast where you have to sell before you receive? maybe seller has inside info on Huerters rapid improvement so far this offseason...sellers do the same with panini instant too so its whatever

The thing is, I thought the people who would have really wanted it may have known about it, and also that it was a relatively true price it sold for. He regular RPA seems to be going in the $200s, a gold /10 went for $400-something and so did this fotl /20. Not only seems a questionable investment but to list it immediately is just... Douchey.

[Goldminer]

Dont hate the player, hate the game. Not having it in hand is his gamble to take, why does anybody care?

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[BostonNut]

Dont hate the player, hate the game. Not having it in hand is his gamble to take, why does anybody care?

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Could be one of two things:

1. Their morals are so superior that they wouldn’t pass gas on a butterfly.

2. They are jelly they didn’t get the steal.

[cypher]

Could be one of two things:

1. Their morals are so superior that they wouldn’t pass gas on a butterfly.

2. They are jelly they didn’t get the steal.

Or it’s against Ebay policy to sell an item not in you posession.

[shrevecity]

Or it’s against Ebay policy to sell an item not in you posession.

No its not.. Many sellers dropship. Ebay actually used to sends out lists of companies that will dropship for you.

[hairyangryfella]

Could be one of two things:

1. Their morals are so superior that they wouldn’t pass gas on a butterfly.

2. They are jelly they didn’t get the steal.

Given that I created the thread you're obviously talking about me, and given that I was well aware of the auction and I think the price was where it should be I'm clearly not jealous. As for morals, I do seem to be one of a rare breed in this hobby who still have them, not that I understand your reference.
I'm not against flippers. I just think some of them are very low class (remember Paul?) and to list this within hours of winning it (and it clearly not being in hand yet) with the previous seller's photo is pathetic.

[xmfx]

So I'm sure if the card doesn't sell for more than the flipper bought it for they're going to cancel it or just not pay right?

[mglevy125]

This is laughable...OP you sound more bitter you missed out on the sale than anything. It’s his risk to sell before receiving, but once received, he has every right to do as he pleases.

It’s not the buyer’s fault that the seller improperly listed this. I can’t imagine anyone on these boards that would turn down 100 percent profit in the matter of weeks.

[Longshot18]

Flipper should wait to have in hand, otherwise there are no issues.

Whining about others making money on cards comes off as entitlement thinking. The number of people crying foul when anyone else but them makes money in this hobby is laughable.

[theLUCKYshow]

Some people list on ebay with high BIN just to show off. I dont really get that either though.

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[hairyangryfella]

This is laughable...OP you sound more bitter you missed out on the sale than anything. It’s his risk to sell before receiving, but once received, he has every right to do as he pleases.

It’s not the buyer’s fault that the seller improperly listed this. I can’t imagine anyone on these boards that would turn down 100 percent profit in the matter of weeks.

Sigh, there are always people like you.
I was aware of the auction as soon as it was listed.
It went for higher than I expected and more than I would have ever paid.
So how the hell am I bitter..?? My whole point is that flippers are often scummy kinds of people and this clown is listing the card literally hours after it ended, using the original seller's image and before it has probably even been shipped, let alone received. Which is douchey. That is all. Get over yourself.

[ClipsandVols]

Some people list on ebay with high BIN just to show off. I dont really get that either though.

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The only person I've seen do it and it actually makes sense is Mark, the Jamal Crawford collector (redhotcards). When you go to check on Jamal prices, you see outrageous figures. Click the listing and it says to read his About Me page. Read that, and you discover your Jamal buyer.

[Stifle]

My background is financial markets and traders are a valuable part of the ecosystem. They provide liquidity and the they help in the price discovery process. As long as they are not lying, stealing, or manipulating we should be appreciative of them not scorn them.

How about colluding? Collusion covers up not just the three aspects you listed but many more. This creates dividing instead of working to establish uniting.

[Longshot18]

Sigh, there are always people like you.
I was aware of the auction as soon as it was listed.
It went for higher than I expected and more than I would have ever paid.
So how the hell am I bitter..?? My whole point is that flippers are often scummy kinds of people and this clown is listing the card literally hours after it ended, using the original seller's image and before it has probably even been shipped, let alone received. Which is douchey. That is all. Get over yourself.

Yes, sellers should wait to have things in hand before selling, but this is not new. Heck, FOTL products are listed weeks before even being released. Not saying it's ideal, and certainly it opens sellers/buyers up to potential issues, but not worth crying foul over IMO.

Personally, I never get my panties in a bunch with any card I miss out on, whether it goes higher than I expected or I just dropped the ball on a good deal.

I'm struggling to understand where the hole "douchey" comment stems from? You say the dude paid more than you would ever pay for the card in the first place. So now it's his card, something he paid a higher value than you perceive to be a good deal, and he's being roasted for what he's doing with it?

[TBarn291]

This poorly advertised card ended just two hours ago -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-National-Treasures-Kevin-Huerter-/163691301666?nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=TcZyv4gfWOl2%252Fk3g7DRRf9Kf09g%253D&orig_cvip=true

And is ALREADY being flipped by the winner despite them not possibly having it in hand -
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2018-19-National-Treasures-FOTL-RPA-20-Kevin-Huerter-Hawks-MINT-RC-Patch-AUTO/113761426607?hash=item1a7cb59caf:g:VYkAAOSwgaNc6ZRm

Also, their price is based on the only one that has sold thus far, when one person was going for all the parallels and paying high for them.

I dislike flipping but I know it's part of things these days. I just find this completely arrogant - using the original seller's picture and listing it before you even have it. Hopefully something happens in transit....


I completely agree with you. Don't list the item before you have it in hand, or at the very least disclose that in your listing. It is way to easy for something to happen in transit. If I bought a card on ebay and then got a message from the seller canceling the sale because he didn't have the card and it was lost while in transit to him, I'm leaving a neg.

[Beavers98]

I completely agree with you. Don't list the item before you have it in hand, or at the very least disclose that in your listing. It is way to easy for something to happen in transit. If I bought a card on ebay and then got a message from the seller canceling the sale because he didn't have the card and it was lost while in transit to him, I'm leaving a neg.

I would agree with this.

People bring up FOTL, and things can happen, but at least that's coming directly from a company. not an individual seller in this case. At the very least mention, it is an incoming item.

[hairyangryfella]

I'm struggling to understand where the hole "douchey" comment stems from? You say the dude paid more than you would ever pay for the card in the first place. So now it's his card, something he paid a higher value than you perceive to be a good deal, and he's being roasted for what he's doing with it?
Dude sees that the only one that has sold previously went for $1300+ as a best offer.
Dude beats out what I would presume is other genuine bidders at what IMO would be the market price (or close to it).
Dude lists just two hours (if not less) after winning (when the seller won't have even shipped yet), at $1300/BO using the photo from the auction he just won, and trying to justify his price with a comparison to the first one and an image of its price, while having no idea of the actual condition because he does not have it yet.

You don't see any of that as douchey?
Gee, the flippers really are accepted as norm these days.

[Longshot18]

Dude sees that the only one that has sold previously went for $1300+ as a best offer.
Dude beats out what I would presume is other genuine bidders at what IMO would be the market price (or close to it).
Dude lists just two hours (if not less) after winning (when the seller won't have even shipped yet), at $1300/BO using the photo from the auction he just won, and trying to justify his price with a comparison to the first one and an image of its price, while having no idea of the actual condition because he does not have it yet.

You don't see any of that as douchey?
Gee, the flippers really are accepted as norm these days.

The only issue I have is he should have in hand.

But as to why you think you and others are "genuine bidders" and he's not is strange to me. Its a commodity that belonged to none of you, you are no more entitled to it than he is no matter your emotional attachment.

Let me make this clear. As a seller- I have flipped cards (and boxes- especially FOTL) for profit. There are times it makes sense. And I have, conversely, given good deals to the right collector. Example: There was a Marco Reuss collector on this board and about a year ago I sold him a card less than a previous one had sold for. I also routinely add cards to what was sold, and when I had a case at the local card shop I was very often giving kids autos and relics. Giving to them. Now- not high end stuff, age appropriate stuff. But the point is that in the world of collecting there are multiple ways to buy/sell/collect.

But none of my ways include being a potential buyer and thinking someone who offers more than me (no matter if its for PC or because he's going to flip) is being douche. There are tons of cards out there I can spend my money on to either flip or for my PC and if someone beats me to the punch on one card- no matter what the reason is- so be it. I move on and realize in the end, guys willing to bid more than others is essential for this hobby.

Whining when someone wants a premium for their card, which is THEIR commodity, or whining when you get outbid by someone who may flip the card just comes off as millennial entitlement thinking to me. Douchy is scamming, card trimming, shilling, or other illegal activities. Being outbid by someone on a card who may flip it- meh, that's economics 101.

And logically, think about this. The guy in your scenario who bid more than you were willing to go and is trying to flip. One of two things will happen. 1) he won't get the pie in sky profit he seeks. In which case he either lowers price to a point where you may be willing to pay and eventually get it, or maybe he's ok holding it for his own PC in which case why do you care? or 2) He sells it for a profit which, for the second time, shows your value assessment on the card may be low.

[hairyangryfella]

But none of my ways include being a potential buyer and thinking someone who offers more than me (no matter if its for PC or because he's going to flip) is being douche. There are tons of cards out there I can spend my money on to either flip or for my PC and if someone beats me to the punch on one card- no matter what the reason is- so be it. I move on and realize in the end, guys willing to bid more than others is essential for this hobby.

Whining when someone wants a premium for their card, which is THEIR commodity, or whining when you get outbid by someone who may flip the card just comes off as millennial entitlement thinking to me. Douchy is scamming, card trimming, shilling, or other illegal activities. Being outbid by someone on a card who may flip it- meh, that's economics 101.

And logically, think about this. The guy in your scenario who bid more than you were willing to go and is trying to flip. One of two things will happen. 1) he won't get the pie in sky profit he seeks. In which case he either lowers price to a point where you may be willing to pay and eventually get it, or maybe he's ok holding it for his own PC in which case why do you care? or 2) He sells it for a profit which, for the second time, shows your value assessment on the card may be low.

It's hard to take your response seriously when you're still completely oblivious to the fact that I DID NOT BID, I had no desires to bid, and it went for much higher than I would have ever considered bidding if I was going to.
So it's not whining that I was outbid or missed out, it's not jealousy, it's simply cringing at the scummy behaviour of trying to flip the instant you've won it, without it being in hand, and using the image from the auction you just won. Throw in the fact that the price seemed to be about realistic for market and the winner is just trying to profit based solely on the very first one listed that sold for a BO, makes it look like he's a clown or just blindly greedy.

[Longshot18]

It's hard to take your response seriously when you're still completely oblivious to the fact that I DID NOT BID, I had no desires to bid, and it went for much higher than I would have ever considered bidding if I was going to.
So it's not whining that I was outbid or missed out, it's not jealousy, it's simply cringing at the scummy behaviour of trying to flip the instant you've won it, without it being in hand, and using the image from the auction you just won. Throw in the fact that the price seemed to be about realistic for market and the winner is just trying to profit based solely on the very first one listed that sold for a BO, makes it look like he's a clown or just blindly greedy.

My mistake, in re-reading it does not mention you specifically bid- that was an assumption. Apologies there.

Still does not change the fact that I really don't care what the purpose of the buyer is (PC or flip), and never will in cases like that. Should he have the card in hand before selling- yep. Is he a clown or just blindly greedy? There we won't agree.

Its a commodity for sale and he bid more than others. To call the others who lost "genuine" and the guy who is paying not is puzzling to me. Hes the guy paying the money, taking risk, or adding it to the PC.

Again, logically he will either a) not be able to make a profit and have to come down or keep in his PC- meaning the rant loses validity because even if he's a "douchy flipper" (your words) he failed to do so, or b) be able to make a profit and for the 2nd time show that your value assessment is lower than others- meaning the rant is about nothing.

In the end, whether you bid on this card or not, I don't share the distain of guys like this who may flip cards for profit. He either flips it and shows that there is indeed a higher market than the person complaining believes, sells it at a lower price after realizing it's not worth what he hopes, or keeps it. Economics 101, not douchebag 101 IMO.

[chiefsncards275]

It's hard to take your response seriously when you're still completely oblivious to the fact that I DID NOT BID, I had no desires to bid, and it went for much higher than I would have ever considered bidding if I was going to.

So it's not whining that I was outbid or missed out, it's not jealousy, it's simply cringing at the scummy behaviour of trying to flip the instant you've won it, without it being in hand, and using the image from the auction you just won. Throw in the fact that the price seemed to be about realistic for market and the winner is just trying to profit based solely on the very first one listed that sold for a BO, makes it look like he's a clown or just blindly greedy.



So if he bought it at market price and now is putting it up at double the price what’s the big deal? It’s just gonna sit there and not sell then anyway. I do agree he should wait until it’s in hand but come on man who cares really


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