Is anyone tired of high grade modern cards?

[CastleBeachCards]

I feel that there are too many cards that come out of pack in mint condition.
Why are people paying premium for cards that are "borderless", thick", "durable",
"non greening" etc. to get a grade of 9.5 or 10?

I understand if it's vintage, notorious for centering, greening, chipping, etc.

But there are so many sets where the cards were produced in such a way where virtually every card is mint.............and yet people put a premium on high grades............it just seems ridiculous to me.


Do people not differentiate between "condition sensitive" and a card that is generally produced in at least mint condition?

[TheRoundMound]

They dont even care if the card looks near mint as long beeing put in PSA10 holder :D

[rittdk01]

I expect to see only PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 on anything modern. The sellers pull them out of the holder and either trim them or sell them raw if they receive less. Now there are services being offered to “clean cards” and help them to get a better grade, so get ready for all perfect grades with a good percentage being trimmed or altered in other ways.We can talk about ethics and doing what’s right, but high end collectors/investors don’t seem to take the high road much.

I see the investors buying up particular players and then doing returns after said player has an injury. Super sleazy. I’ve seen bo members suggest cracking low grades and selling raw as a means of deceiving the buyer. I remember one particular thread the op couldn’t see a problem with cracking and then putting a “detailed description” of the original grade and flaws with the card to sell on EBay. :eek: Several BO members were arguing and defending this. And yes, I made a list of all fellow members that condone that and would never buy a $2 card from them.

I’m pretty sure most auctions are shilled and particular players are bought for outrageous prices by very small groups to manipulate the market. They also know all the tricks for receiving “empty boxes” and any other online buying scams. I didn’t know any of those scams existed until I ventured into the sports forum on here. The 90’s fakes are nearly undetectable and are being slabbed by PSA/BGS, so get ready for that with high end modern.

For modern I only buy Colts cards and the max I have spent on a single card is $110 for a Peyton Manning auto/jersey, so I have no dog in this fight. I know, long rant, but modern collecting is so gross that I have to comment on occasion.

[chuckerrrr]

Yeah with all the recent trimming/alteration/conservation I honestly have no cRe for grading or graded cards. Im going back old school and collecting how I did when I was kid. Just going to open wax and buy/trade raw singles. Grading has created a monster and network of greed/shadiness/investors/flippers. People who don’t care for the cards, hobby, manipulating and ripping off people.


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[rhigh2390]

Yeah with all the recent trimming/alteration/conservation I honestly have no cRe for grading or graded cards. Im going back old school and collecting how I did when I was kid. Just going to open wax and buy/trade raw singles. Grading has created a monster and network of greed/shadiness/investors/flippers. People who don’t care for the cards, hobby, manipulating and ripping off people.


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[Orangejello727]

There are way too many bulk submissions full of cards that should be submitted for grading. Ive seen bulk submissions for very recent products base cards.

[charly41]

totally agree - guess it's the grading craze :rolleyes:

I feel that there are too many cards that come out of pack in mint condition.
Why are people paying premium for cards that are "borderless", thick", "durable",
"non greening" etc. to get a grade of 9.5 or 10?

I understand if it's vintage, notorious for centering, greening, chipping, etc.

But there are so many sets where the cards were produced in such a way where virtually every card is mint.............and yet people put a premium on high grades............it just seems ridiculous to me.


Do people not differentiate between "condition sensitive" and a card that is generally produced in at least mint condition?

[UltimateDeron]

There are way too many bulk submissions full of cards that should be submitted for grading. Ive seen bulk submissions for very recent products base cards.

Unfortunately this is a problem. When PSA gives a discount for submitting 200+ cards the submitter literally will submit any base card to get that amount.

[mk6283]

Everyone should stop grading cards all together. That is my opinion.

I have never graded a single card and do not intend to start any time soon.

[ThoseBackPages]

Everyone should stop grading cards all together. That is my opinion.

I have never graded a single card and do not intend to start any time soon.

people should also stop opening packs and group breakers should be banned from buying product.

[tjforce]

OP, I get your frustration....

But have you have bought a more expensive, newer raw card on ebay, expecting it to be in mint condition, only to have it arrive with a noticeable surface scratch or back of the card crease that wasn't in the photos?

That's why I go graded.

[glen87]

OP, I get your frustration....

But have you have bought a more expensive, newer raw card on ebay, expecting it to be in mint condition, only to have it arrive with a noticeable surface scratch or back of the card crease that wasn't in the photos?

That's why I go graded.

would you rather have that raw card with a scratch, or a "psa 10" missing part of the card?

[tjforce]

would you rather have that raw card with a scratch, or a "psa 10" missing part of the card?


You ask that question as if these were my only two options, which they are not.

My first option would be an unaltered PSA 10.

But yes, when I get a graded card I examine the card and make sure it wasn't doctored.

Much higher success rate doing this than buying raw and praying for Gem Mint condition.

2 things. 1. The vast majority of graded cards are not doctored. 2. With highly collected cards that have been out for a while, it's almost assumed that if you buy raw it won't be gem mint, due to the fact that if it were it would already be graded.

For the record, I've sent back PSA 10 cards before because of damage to the case/card. PSA 10 allows me to expect perfection that I can't expect buying raw.

[mk6283]

OP, I get your frustration....

But have you have bought a more expensive, newer raw card on ebay, expecting it to be in mint condition, only to have it arrive with a noticeable surface scratch or back of the card crease that wasn't in the photos?

That's why I go graded.

I have many cards in PSA 10 slabs with noticeable imperfections. The grading companies are far from perfect and the PSA cases in particular seem to suboptimally protect the cards after they have been graded.

In my opinion, the grading frenzy has fed the trimming and flipping epidemics that we see today. Not a fan.

[tjforce]

I have many cards in PSA 10 slabs with noticeable imperfections. The grading companies are far from perfect and the PSA cases in particular seem to suboptimally protect the cards after they have been graded.

In my opinion, the grading frenzy has fed the trimming and flipping epidemic that we see today. Not a fan.

Then why would you pay a premium for them and not return them if they have imperfections?

As for protecting them after encapsulated, I haven't had a single card in my collection take noticeable damage after being graded.

Maybe I just store them well.

[mk6283]

Then why would you pay a premium for them and not return them if they have imperfections?

I don't specifically seek out PSA 10s, but have still amassed a few. I have no interest in sending cards back, filing complaints, etc. I'm a collector. I focus on rare cards and completing sets. Raw cards serve my purpose just fine. Authentication is increasingly important, but you can usually rely on provenance and knowledgeable opinions for that, especially on the higher end cards. We know the grading companies slab fake cards too.

[goldkobe]

It's just people's preferences, some collectors prefer raw and some prefer graded. I am OCD on card condition and I prefer PSA10/BGS9.5 as the those cards are usually in gem mint condition and I like the graded card cases, most of the raw cards I have encountered are not in mint condition( even the modern ones).

[JMarchand1981]

You ask that question as if these were my only two options, which they are not.

My first option would be an unaltered PSA 10.

But yes, when I get a graded card I examine the card and make sure it wasn't doctored.

Much higher success rate doing this than buying raw and praying for Gem Mint condition.

2 things. 1. The vast majority of graded cards are not doctored. 2. With highly collected cards that have been out for a while, it's almost assumed that if you buy raw it won't be gem mint, due to the fact that if it were it would already be graded.

For the record, I've sent back PSA 10 cards before because of damage to the case/card. PSA 10 allows me to expect perfection that I can't expect buying raw.


Oh the bolded times ten. I am currently in the market for a card that sells for $400 in psa 10, $350 in Bgs 9.5.

Raws go for about $150. I could buy a raw version and sub it 6-10 times hoping that it will gem. However, my assumption is that, while maybe not damaged,current owners of said card would sub it themselves if they could double to almost triple their ask on the other sell side if it would gem.

You make a lot of good points.

[ballhawkdawk]

I’ve seen bo members suggest cracking low grades and selling raw as a means of deceiving the buyer. I remember one particular thread the op couldn’t see a problem with cracking and then putting a “detailed description” of the original grade and flaws with the card to sell on EBay. :eek: Several BO members were arguing and defending this. And yes, I made a list of all fellow members that condone that and would never buy a $2 card from them.

If we’re talking cracking and selling with the intent to deceive, then that’s a problem. But I prefer raw cards and don’t send stuff in for grading. If a card I want is graded and doesn’t pop up often I’ll buy it just to have it, but I have zero obligation to leave something I own in a case that I don’t care for or recognize as legitimate. I’ll disclose whatever flaws are on the card, if any, in the event that I decide to sell it down the road.

[rittdk01]

If we’re talking cracking and selling with the intent to deceive, then that’s a problem. But I prefer raw cards and don’t send stuff in for grading. If a card I want is graded and doesn’t pop up often I’ll buy it just to have it, but I have zero obligation to leave something I own in a case that I don’t care for or recognize as legitimate. I’ll disclose whatever flaws are on the card, if any, in the event that I decide to sell it down the road.

Card is sent in to PSA and receives a 7. It’s suggested to OP to remove for a better EBay sale. OP decides that’s a great idea and says he will provide a “detailed description” AFTER cracking the card so as not to deceive any buyers. Several veteran members See nothing wrong with this and are added to my “never deal with” list.

[tjforce]

I don't specifically seek out PSA 10s, but have still amassed a few. I have no interest in sending cards back, filing complaints, etc. I'm a collector. I focus on rare cards and completing sets. Raw cards serve my purpose just fine. Authentication is increasingly important, but you can usually rely on provenance and knowledgeable opinions for that, especially on the higher end cards. We know the grading companies slab fake cards too.

That works for you.

I'm a collector also. On top of that I buy, sell, trade, flip... what ever you want to call it.

Grading helps me on two fronts:

For my PC, it helps me maintain consistency within my collection. When I went out and bought my Lebron TC Refractor that I plan on keeping for a long, long time, I already had a base PSA 9 that I submitted myself. I made up my mind that I wanted the Refractor in the same condition, or else it would have bothered me that the base was in great shape while the refractor could have had an obvious flaw if I bought it raw.

For transaction purposes, grading helps because it allows me to more effectively communicate the condition of the card to my counterparty, which in turn creates a more liquid market. Both parties now know exactly what condition to expect and there is less debate on how impactful any flaws on the card are to the overall value.

[mk6283]

That works for you.

I'm a collector also. On top of that I buy, sell, trade, flip... what ever you want to call it.

Grading helps me on two fronts:

For my PC, it helps me maintain consistency within my collection. When I went out and bought my Lebron TC Refractor that I plan on keeping for a long, long time, I already had a base PSA 9 that I submitted myself. I made up my mind that I wanted the Refractor in the same condition, or else it would have bothered me that the base was in great shape while the refractor could have had an obvious flaw if I bought it raw.

For transaction purposes, grading helps because it allows me to more effectively communicate the condition of the card to my counterparty, which in turn creates a more liquid market. Both parties now know exactly what condition to expect and there is less debate on how impactful any flaws on the card are to the overall value.

I understand. It also really bothers me that collectors still pay such a high premium for PSA 10s when we know that a significant percentage of those cards are altered. It feeds the vicious cycle that leads the bad guys to do bad things. Its not a coincidence that the highest value card in our hobby (Wagner PSA 8) is trimmed and surfaced as the first PSA graded card. The scary thing is that it has only increased in value despite the known fraud associated with it. My personal preference would be for collectors to move away from placing such a high emphasis on third party grading, but I do understand and respect the other perspectives, including yours.

[Archangel1775]

I feel that there are too many cards that come out of pack in mint condition.
Why are people paying premium for cards that are "borderless", thick", "durable",
"non greening" etc. to get a grade of 9.5 or 10?


I understand if it's vintage, notorious for centering, greening, chipping, etc.

But there are so many sets where the cards were produced in such a way where virtually every card is mint.............and yet people put a premium on high grades............it just seems ridiculous to me.


Do people not differentiate between "condition sensitive" and a card that is generally produced in at least mint condition?

The registry or team/player collectors. If I'm doing a Angels, Pujols or Trout PSA 10 set, I will get every year, including the new stuff. $20-$25 for a PSA 10, 2019 card is better than spending $75 on the box and $20 grading one hoping for a PSA 10.

[ballhawkdawk]

Card is sent in to PSA and receives a 7. It’s suggested to OP to remove for a better EBay sale. OP decides that’s a great idea and says he will provide a “detailed description” AFTER cracking the card so as not to deceive any buyers. Several veteran members See nothing wrong with this and are added to my “never deal with” list.

That seems like a problem to me. It’s deliberately deceitful. I don’t know where the line is drawn, but that crosses it for me. Thanks for the backstory.

[gomiamigo]

I used to go with strictly raw cards when I got back into collecting and voiced a lot of similar complaints prior to the trimming scandal.

I starting collecting graded cards for a few reasons:
1) If I wanted to sell the card to upgrade my collection, there were wayyyyy too many hassles and returns with raw. Guys would just change their mind after a loss and send them back and claim condition imperfections, even leaving neg feedback onetime because I wouldn't give them a 'discount,' i.e. they blackmailed me.

2) I prefer my PC to have better condition cards than worse. I can't always see the centering or surface problems that others can. I didn't know which cards were very grading sensitive versus less so.

3) Storage is easier. And safer, cards don't fall out of psa/bgs holders if I accidentally drop them, even magnetics can break open.

4) Insurance - grading gives you a serial number. If something gets stolen or burned up in a fire, we can comp the 2-3 most recent of that card in high-grade and agree on a value, but for a raw where it's so dependent on other things and the card is gone ---it could be 500 or 1k or 2k, you know? Insurer ain't gonna pay 2k when they can pay $500.


Having said that, the trimming/consignment scandal has me re-assessing my future collecting needs. But the best cards of my PC guy are very condition sensitive so it's a tricky decision. I don't wanna pay BGS 8.5 prices for a raw that's really 7.5 or worse when I can just get the 8.5 at the right price.

[WalterAZ31]

I'm gonna play the other side and actually say that imo too many cards come out of packs not in mint condition

how many bowman cards come with ridiculous print lines in them. how many countless cards continue to have Whiting on edges and corners even in the highest end products

[cornelljw]

The main reason I like to sell graded cards is to prevent bait and switches. Also a customer can not complain about the condition of the card. With buyers bending over sellers left and right on ebay, a seller's best defense right now is to sell graded cards.

[mindcycle]

The obsession over grades has gotten out of hand IMO. With all the money involved nowadays it’s no surprise people are altering Prizm cards by waxing card surfaces and things like that to try and to get a 10. Most of these cards are already mint out of the pack so the difference between a 9 vs 9.5/10 is usually so small I just don’t see why it matters. Especially when your card has a print run of 5000 copies, lol.It’s not like that stuff is rare.

I collect mostly raw cards and it’s gotten to the point where I stopped selling on eBay altogether. I was just burnt out on people returning Prizm cards and the like because there was a small flaw and they didn’t think it would grade a 10. We’re talking like a minor scratch or surface dimple. I mean, why does that really matter? I feel like they’ve been told or shown by social media posts and the like that having a PSA 10 of a Prizm card is like owning a Picasso or something. It’s all just kinda sad IMHO.

[derder]

Have always hated grading, always will. The only time I could see the benefit isn’t for grade but for authentication. People are getting better and better at replicating cards

[myusasets]

women prefer different di..s not just those graded by others. i think women know great from common. and i know a nice card without any help too.

[AnthonyCorona]

women prefer different di..s not just those graded by others. i think women know great from common. and i know a nice card without any help too.



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[ninjabum87]

women prefer different di..s not just those graded by others. i think women know great from common. and i know a nice card without any help too.

Lol luckily for most dudes out there men don't get publicized grades.

You think women would settle for an ungraded guy more often than 9-10 if they had a choice?