Is it still safe to send cards to PWCC to consign for you?

[Hdpooh34]

I was going to send some big-ticket items this month to PWCC before the June 10th deadline but in light of the recent scandal, do you guys think it’s still safe? Business as usual or should I avoid sending them stuff for a while?

[Davis]

I personally would not. I would wait for things to be sorted out or find an alternative. If it's very high end, maybe consider an auction house like Heritage or Mile High Auctions.

[anusinha]

I bet Probstein is licking his chops right now

[LVDan]

I bet Probstein is licking his chops right now

that is correct

[Keyser Soze]

I bet Probstein is licking his chops right now

As well he should be. He and SGC better be having meetings to determine the best way to leverage the new realities of their respective markets.

Or maybe he's laying low and hoping that BODA doesn't find the skeletons in his closet.

[glen87]

I was going to send some big-ticket items this month to PWCC before the June 10th deadline but in light of the recent scandal, do you guys think it’s still safe? Business as usual or should I avoid sending them stuff for a while?

this is a decision only you can make. personally, i would not send them anything to sell for me because i would not want to help keep their business open. but at the same time, i would not tell anyone to not send them stuff. it is a personal choice on whether or not you want to deal with someone with allegedly shady business practices.

[ssbledsoe]

At an absolute MINIMUM, the FBI is poking around PWCC. There's a non-zero chance that the FBI rolls up and ceases operations. Sell it yourself or send it to Probstein.

[splitrockgamer]

NO do not send to PWCC. Even if your cards have nothing to do with what is going on, expect a minimum of 30% less you would get selling yourself or with Probstien. As someone who took it on the chin in Auction #5 (my first and only cosign with them) DO NOT SEND ANYTHING TO PWCC right now.

EDIT: not only 30% less, but also higher fees on top of that than Probstien charges.

[shrevecity]

I would not want to be on the list of consignors to PWCC right now. Even if you have not done anything wrong your name on their records could trigger an IRS audit or anything like that. Then there is the whole issue of prices taking a nosedive.

[speedyjg13]

The answer is simple... do not send to them. Hit them in the pocket by not consigning with them or buying from them.

[ThoseBackPages]

As well he should be. He and SGC better be having meetings to determine the best way to leverage the new realities of their respective markets.

Or maybe he's laying low and hoping that BODA doesn't find the skeletons in his closet.

:cry:

[PDCCollectibles]

With an investigation pending, I personally would not send anything their way.....

[SirTommyWinAlot]

I'd stay away. My cards are there right now and I can honestly tell ya this level of uncertainty isn't good for your peace of mind. I will get my cards (or money) back but considering what's going on it may not be for awhile. Then again, I may get it back within a normal time frame.

Why nosedive into that?

[JrFinest]

I would avoid sending anything to these scammers. Might never see it again if this investigation follows through.

[13goyankees13]

I would not want to be on the list of consignors to PWCC right now. Even if you have not done anything wrong your name on their records could trigger an IRS audit or anything like that. Then there is the whole issue of prices taking a nosedive.

Agreed. Even ignoring prices and morality, there's a decent chance this will be investigated and lists will be made. Even if you're not on the really bad list, do you want to be on any of those lists?

[majestik101]

Absolutely not.

Next question.

[BLongley]

I would not send my worst enemies cards to be sold by them...

[lisu]

I wouldn't right now. with all the bad press, your cards will get less money than if you sold them yourself!

[Arazi4442]

I had been asking myself the same question a few weeks ago before this really got going. Regardless of how you feel about their practices or standing in solidarity by withholding your business, there are other concerns.

As stated earlier, there are legal entities poking around - one of my main concerns would have been having my cards in their hands if legal action is taken. Your stuff could be tied up in red tape for years with no access.

Plus, I do not feel comfortable dealing with people involved in these types of shady goings on. At best, they're incompetent and possibly criminal.

[Ray27Ray52]

This is why these scams perpetuate themselves over and over. We have a bountiful amount of information that PWCC is involved in nefarious gains yet people are still asking if they should send their cards to them. I just can't even comprehend the question. Like yeah, let's just put more money in their pocket. This business needs an enema.

[patchgenie]

nope....

[3AND4]

I personally would not. If the FBI Raids your cards could get caught up in it.

Stuff like that could take years to sort out.

Would not want my cards in limbo while the Gov takes its sweet time to sort out the mess.

Your cards will be of NO Concern to the fbi investigation. You will get them back when THEY decide you will IF they decide you will. If you dont have fun in court!

[UD HighGloss]

Brent is salt of the earth, what could go wrong?

[signed79]

It's a shame because they built a good business model. As a seller it was easy to just send my cards in, make an account online, review before going live, and receive a check. Streamlined very well.

PWCC left a good blueprint for up and coming businesses in the way of website development and partnerships with eBay. Unfortunately, it appears they built theirs more on fraudulent practices than their own money and sweat equity.

I would not send anything to them, now, or ever again.

[ssbledsoe]

This is why these scams perpetuate themselves over and over. We have a bountiful amount of information that PWCC is involved in nefarious gains yet people are still asking if they should send their cards to them. I just can't even comprehend the question. Like yeah, let's just put more money in their pocket. This business needs an enema.

Heavy focus on butt stuff, poopsie :eek::)!:cool:

[speedyjg13]

I'd stay away. My cards are there right now and I can honestly tell ya this level of uncertainty isn't good for your peace of mind. I will get my cards (or money) back but considering what's going on it may not be for awhile. Then again, I may get it back within a normal time frame.

Why nosedive into that?

This gotta be stressful!!!! So what's your move? Are you asking them to return the cards or to still sell them?

[lawrencedc1]

I for one will be stopping all my business with PWCC.

[Kuch86]

You would have to be crazy to submit to them with what is going on right now...

[caflisch78]

In an unregulated environment the only way things change are when the people stand up and are heard. PSA and BGS own this sector right now while are both currently undergoing serious allegations (along with PWCC). Somewhere along the way they have deceived everyone into believing they are the final say in this hobby. Guess what, they're not. The people always hold the key.

It's pretty clear things need to change and by submitting any cards at this time for grading without knowing all the facts, would just be ignorant to me. Practically aiding and abetting knowing full well these entities, in whom we've trusted in for decades, have created a false market to maximize their fraud from the entire hobby of collectors! It's a blanket attack of self gain, can't people see that based on the facts that have already been presented??

And who knows what is still to come? We've already seen supporting url's/screenshots/evidence 'coincidentally' removed. Fraud in it's most glorious form people. Wake the heck up already!

[Luckcard22]

No...

[rcmb3220]

I don’t know how high end your cards are but there is a cap on eBay fees but I don’t think there is a cap on consignment fees. And if one is not going to shill their own auctions there’s not much incentive to send them in. Plus you know, a possible fbi raid and whatnot.

[speedyjg13]

In an unregulated environment the only way things change are when the people stand up and are heard. PSA and BGS own this sector right now while are both currently undergoing serious allegations (along with PWCC). Somewhere along the way they have deceived everyone into believing they are the final say in this hobby. Guess what, they're not. The people always hold the key.

It's pretty clear things need to change and by submitting any cards at this time for grading without knowing all the facts, would just be ignorant to me. Practically aiding and abetting knowing full well these entities, in whom we've trusted in for decades, have created a false market to maximize their fraud from the entire hobby of collectors! It's a blanket attack of self gain, can't people see that based on the facts that have already been presented??

And who knows what is still to come? We've already seen supporting url's/screenshots/evidence 'coincidentally' removed. Fraud in it's most glorious form people. Wake the heck up already!

Well said.

[RollTribe]

Is this real life?

[AwesomeBrian]

I won't even open their emails to look at the auctions.

[Shadowsonic2004]

I don't use their Vault myself but do you guys think the people's cards who do use it are safe or would the FBI get a hold of those too.

[Shadowsonic2004]

I bet Probstein is licking his chops right nowI actually mentioned in my last email to him today that I hope I got my cards out to him quick enough. Before a big rush of consignments from people boycotting PWCC come in.

[smalltown]

If i was anyone with cards currently in PWCC's hands i'd be demanding them back immediately. If the feds do come knocking the cards will all be likely seized as evidence and it may be a very long time before you got them back.

[Shadowsonic2004]

If i was anyone with cards currently in PWCC's hands i'd be demanding them back immediately. If the feds do come knocking the cards will all be likely seized as evidence and it may be a very long time before you got them back.That could be expensive for people out of the country, especially if they have a lot of cards and expensive ones.

[Hdpooh34]

If i was anyone with cards currently in PWCC's hands i'd be demanding them back immediately. If the feds do come knocking the cards will all be likely seized as evidence and it may be a very long time before you got them back.

I would go one step further and say the same about PSA - if anyone has any cards at PSA in the midst of grading, call them and get the original ungraded cards send back to you. There is a chance of feds raiding PSA offices as well and seizing any cards that are currently being graded (citing them as possible “sources of trimming”. I actually have had a batch of cards sent to PSA this month and am wary about the feds investigating my PSA cards as well.

[smalltown]

That could be expensive for people out of the country, especially if they have a lot of cards and expensive ones.

More expensive not having access to your property for an extended period of time.

[jjcan]

Will this go the way of GAI graded authentication, and other expert certifications, Home shopping network, XYZ authentication services.

Will the end be oh that was on a PWCC auction, I will pass on those cards. PWCC certified markings, will not matter anymore.

Wonder will all the grading issues these last few months make a lasting impact, or will the race for the most money regardless of integrity come out on top and this will be forgotten.

Is it the John Calipari comment:

"Let’s say you have a bucket of ice cream and a bucket of poop. You can add all the ice cream you want to that bucket of poop and it’s not going to change it one bit. But if you add so much as one pinch of poop to that ice cream it’ll never be the same."

I think we will probably still eat future ice cream offerings and hope there is no poop in the next batch......Just keeping both eyes open..

[KhalDrogo]

You’re an idiot if you buy from or sell with PWCC at this point.

[Hdpooh34]

You’re an idiot if you buy from or sell with PWCC at this point.

A current search of “PWCC” yields 4.325 auctions with a large number of Mantle and Ruth PSAs selling in the $7,000-25,000 range and with healthy bids. The “idiots” with money are still buying.

[SirTommyWinAlot]

If i was anyone with cards currently in PWCC's hands i'd be demanding them back immediately. If the feds do come knocking the cards will all be likely seized as evidence and it may be a very long time before you got them back.

Just a bunch of Benintendi's.

Will not be missed. lol.

[shrevecity]

I don’t know how high end your cards are but there is a cap on eBay fees but I don’t think there is a cap on consignment fees. And if one is not going to shill their own auctions there’s not much incentive to send them in. Plus you know, a possible fbi raid and whatnot.

The headache of dealing with returns on high end items is enough incentive. Before all this broke I would never sell a card for more than 250 on Ebay just not worth the added stress. Now I am thankful I rarely sell those type cards.

[COMC James]

https://i.imgur.com/53gRgeu.gif

But seriously, if you have any questions about sending in your high end items to COMC.com, I'd love to help out and get you started.

[mjohnatgt]

Hey James, $10K in slabs are on the way soon, bud.

[VintageVinny]

I just want to chime in. I have never sent in a single card for grading, I will say that first off. The grading companies are responsible almost entirely for this. The very purpose of grading is the notion of a 3rd party being impartial and grading a card on its condition AND authenticity. It is quite easy to measure cards via machine process (sharks with lasers) to verify even mills (parts of millimeters) aren't lacking. They don't take this seriously because frankly we as a hobby didnt police them. WOW is that dynamic changing. If their tact is to just ride this out and not make changes, they will be undone.

Speaking of being undone, PWCC made a monumental error in judgement with their conservation vs. alteration press release. What...in...the...world...were...you...thinking...? You went from being an authority on high end to a well-documented complicit partner in this fraud in an instant.

So in summary, hard pass on PWCC. The grading companies need to have their process measure dimensions to the thousandth and document those for each slabbed card. They are only as strong as their reputation, which is fading.

VV

[Sets2]

WOW. Very interesting comments/opinions; I was contemplating the same thing {sending some stuff in to PWCC} but I guess I wait. I agree, and would not want my stuff tied up in the event that they get shut down etc. Maestro got shut down and they were very big at the time, I imagine there will be consequences for all, to what extent remains to be seen. The thing that stinks about putting high end on ebay at fixed price is you'll never know if that was the true market value & of course I don't have any where near the followers they do.

[KhalDrogo]

Speaking of being undone, PWCC made a monumental error in judgement with their conservation vs. alteration press release. What...in...the...world...were...you...thinking...? You went from being an authority on high end to a well-documented complicit partner in this fraud in an instant.
It should be quite easy for the feds to use their Tenets as evidence that PWCC attempted to justify their wrongdoings by redefining the hobby.

[chezball]

I was going to send some big-ticket items this month to PWCC before the June 10th deadline but in light of the recent scandal, do you guys think it’s still safe? Business as usual or should I avoid sending them stuff for a while?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/X4YqmJEl6wJoY/giphy.gif

[Nuurgle]

Best case scenario is that they don't sell and come back to you in better condition than when they were sent in.

[Biohazarddfl]

I just wanted to revive this thread because it was so good and I found it in a google search. Are you all still feeling this way or has the dust settled? I tend to agree with you all, but it doesn't look like the feds are ever going to come knocking, so why not sell through PWCC where you get a better return? (Just playing devils advocate and not trolling)

[374cardshop]

I just wanted to revive this thread because it was so good and I found it in a google search. Are you all still feeling this way or has the dust settled? I tend to agree with you all, but it doesn't look like the feds are ever going to come knocking, so why not sell through PWCC where you get a better return? (Just playing devils advocate and not trolling)



I have a question for this. I have never consigned through a service like PWCC or Probstein. I do use COMC but all cards in my inventory I purchased on the site. My question for people who consign why do you consign? Do you feel there is a safety net with a big seller in case something goes south? Or is it just easier to let them handle the work? I feel people are more dependent now on selling themselves with all the outlets available. I also am not trolling just curious on this matter.

[cking]

I just wanted to revive this thread because it was so good and I found it in a google search. Are you all still feeling this way or has the dust settled? I tend to agree with you all, but it doesn't look like the feds are ever going to come knocking, so why not sell through PWCC where you get a better return? (Just playing devils advocate and not trolling)

They are criminals who have screwed over tons of people.

Why would you want to put money into the hands of people like this?

You are helping to further a criminal enterprise if you continue to do ANY business with them.

You are letting them off the hook if you deal with them.

I know I will be in the minority but Integrity, Morals and Principle are more important to me then any amount of money.

Its too bad that more people in the hobby dont feel this way. They will continue to deal with people like PWCC. And why? All to line their own pockets. Those people are no better then PWCC.

Sometimes you should do the right thing in life. Even if it costs you some money. You will rest better at night.

[cowboyfaninlr]

Works best for trimmed or altered cards :)

They are scum

[shrevecity]

I have a question for this. I have never consigned through a service like PWCC or Probstein. I do use COMC but all cards in my inventory I purchased on the site. My question for people who consign why do you consign? Do you feel there is a safety net with a big seller in case something goes south? Or is it just easier to let them handle the work? I feel people are more dependent now on selling themselves with all the outlets available. I also am not trolling just curious on this matter.

There is a safety net when things go bad in the sale. They are the ones who get to deal with the return possibility. Despite what many on this site thinks, remember this site makes up a very small percentage of collectors out there. They have a huge dedicated pool of deep pocketed buyers many of whom do not buy from anyone but them. These buyers for the most part also cause the least amount of issues for a seller on Ebay. In the event something does go wrong like a return they handle it all. If the return occurs after you are paid they will just take ownership of the item themselves and relist at a later date. Anything over 500.00 I send to Probstein(have always done better with him) no way will I sell a card of that value on Ebay myself.