[PRIZM] eBay Artificial Price Inflation

[pharmboymatt]

This applies to everything (was also seen with Optic Holos not long ago), but I thought there should be a thread dedicated to discussing the artificial price inflation that is running rampant on eBay, whether it be buyer's groups or whatever.

There are frequently auctions for the 'hot' players (cough JA cough) that are ending 1.5-2x more than what someone could 'Buy It Now' for. While I understand that there is some degree of competition and wanting to 'win' an auction, I feel like that desire to win would reasonably stop at some point well before paying 1.5-2x the actual market price.

These practices have a cyclical effect, as others start using them as comps in order to justify their own prices. Rinse and repeat a few times and voila, you all of a sudden have cards 'worth' triple their value from a week ago.

There's probably no way to stop this from happening, but at the very least, is it time we consider throwing out auctions from comps? I feel like some people understand what is going on, while others remain completely oblivious either by choice or inability to comprehend, which contributes to the problem. I'm hoping that someone here who is better than me at articulating can explain the process of artificial price inflation better so more can be educated.

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and ideas, thanks!

[gomiamigo]

I don't see that frequently at all, usually people snap up the BINs instead. If I can get Ja Prizm's at 33-50% below current auction value on eBay show me where!

One difference for this year's prizm would be the centering that would make a significant monetary change from one card to another.

[PacklineD]

While I definitely agree that price pumping occurs regularly on eBay, I also am never surprised anymore at the amount of "bidiots" there seem to be out there.

There have probably been dozens of times that Ive offered a card at a BIN price for months, card doesn't sell, and then I end up auctioning it off and the auction ends at a higher price than I had it listed BIN for. Go figure.

Some folks just love to bid in auctions.

[fdjizm]

I think bidding changes the dynamic for buyers, especially ones with impulse control problems.
"winning an auction" is a very real feeling to chase and you can get caught up in it bidding more than you ever thought you wanted to pay for the item.

[PKIPP]

I assume there are ppl who automatically filter auction only because they think that's the best way to get a deal on a card. I went through a phase where for like 2 months all I did was try to win stuff at auction and didn't even bother checking the BIN's. But I typically don't go for the "hot" cards so sometimes I'm able to do really well on auctions compared to the BIN prices.

[thenwhatjk]

Heck yeah baby welcome to cards

[KhalDrogo]

Price manipulation is great. Nobody manipulates down. Only up. Therefore, we are all going to be rich!

[pharmboymatt]

While I definitely agree that price pumping occurs regularly on eBay, I also am never surprised anymore at the amount of "bidiots" there seem to be out there.

There have probably been dozens of times that Ive offered a card at a BIN price for months, card doesn't sell, and then I end up auctioning it off and the auction ends at a higher price than I had it listed BIN for. Go figure.

Some folks just love to bid in auctions.

LOL at 'bidiots'... never heard that before, but will have to use it in the future. Thanks.

[Cheken]

Price manipulation is great. Nobody manipulates down. Only up. Therefore, we are all going to be rich!

This guy is the robin hood of card trading lol

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1347152

[Justin7]

Price manipulation is great. Nobody manipulates down. Only up. Therefore, we are all going to be rich!
Look everything this guy says is wrong everytime!

Example of someone manipulating down:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/nlesscards/m.html?item=264605786290&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

[KhalDrogo]

Look everything this guy says is wrong everytime!

Example of someone manipulating down:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/nlesscards/m.html?item=264605786290&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684
I am sorry you could not see the flippant humor in my post.

[TigerEyes]

It happens on Wall Street also and it has for a long time.

[rj.cataldo]

I don't know if it's price manipulation, or just rampant group think and FOMO. There is a lot of hype around Ja (who has been playing great) and Zion's return which obviously pushes prices up.

That said, I think a not insignificant number of the market participants engage in this forum in some form or fashion. People say "X is undervalued, I think it will be Y in a few weeks" and others pour money into it. There is definitely correlation between what is hot on this forum and moves in the market.

Whether it is prizm retail (e.g., hangars), or certain parallels (e.g., orange ice), everyone wants their buys to be "good investments", and there is a lot of shameless advertising on the forums. That said, it has been part of the hobby for some time, and frankly I don't think it's going away any time soon.

The key is just buying what you like, and paying only what you are comfortable with rather than the hype of the moment. At some point, the market is going to take a hit and I think the "non-bluechip" cards (e.g., obscure issues / non-mainstream key rookies) will be the hardest hit, and some assets will move to stronger hands that still have purchasing power at reduced prices.

[sjay2k]

Do you have examples or evidence?

[pharmboymatt]

Do you have examples or evidence?

This is just one example, but there was a Ja Ruby Wave yesterday that auctioned for $420+, when there was (and still is) a well centered copy available for $299 OBO. The majority of bids pumping the auction were from 3 users, and the winner had 7000+ feedback. Are we to think that someone with 7000+ eBay feedback didn't know how to use the search function and find the same card for much cheaper?

Auction - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ja-Morant-2019-Panini-Prizm-Ruby-Red-Wave-Rookie-Card/223857269899

Bid History - https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/223857269899

Alternative - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-20-PANINI-PRIZM-JA-MORANT-RUBY-RED-WAVE-PRIZM-ROOKIE-REFRACTOR-SP-GRIZZLIES/174132992218

[Justin7]

This is just one example, but there was a Ja Ruby Wave yesterday that auctioned for $420+, when there was (and still is) a well centered copy available for $299 OBO. The majority of bids pumping the auction were from 3 users, and the winner had 7000+ feedback. Are we to think that someone with 7000+ eBay feedback didn't know how to use the search function and find the same card for much cheaper?

Auction - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ja-Morant-2019-Panini-Prizm-Ruby-Red-Wave-Rookie-Card/223857269899

Bid History - https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/223857269899

Alternative - https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-20-PANINI-PRIZM-JA-MORANT-RUBY-RED-WAVE-PRIZM-ROOKIE-REFRACTOR-SP-GRIZZLIES/174132992218

Uh if you look closely at the photo the hawthorne collectibles card it has a sizeable scratch on the bottom right of the Morant Ruby while the other one looks impeccable. That explains the difference.

[pharmboymatt]

Uh if you look closely at the photo the hawthorne collectibles card it has a sizeable scratch on the bottom right of the Morant Ruby while the other one looks impeccable. That explains the difference.

Good catch, I didn't notice that. I would think with a higher-feedback seller that they'd disclose a scratch like that in listing details if it was on card, so it might be on the case.

Either way, I'm curious why none of the 3 main bidders on that auction (especially the 2 that didn't win) bothered to bid on a seemingly perfect copy (assuming specks in scan are dust) that ended only a few hours later for $260+ less lol. They all didn't want to deal with someone in Hong Kong that has 13k+ 100% positive feedback?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-20-Panini-Prizm-JA-MORANT-Base-249-RC-Rookie-Red-Wave-Prizms-Grizzlies-/124046986374

edit: FYI, I reached out to Hawthorne Collectibles to ask if the scratch was on card or case. They responded within a few minutes and said it was on the case, with pics to show it. Any bidder had plenty of time to ask and get that answer from them.

[Justin7]

Good catch, I didn't notice that. I would think with a higher-feedback seller that they'd disclose a scratch like that in listing details if it was on card, so it might be on the case.

Either way, I'm curious why none of the 3 main bidders on that auction (especially the 2 that didn't win) bothered to bid on a seemingly perfect copy (assuming specks in scan are dust) that ended only a few hours later for $260+ less lol. They all didn't want to deal with someone in Hong Kong that has 13k+ 100% positive feedback?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-20-Panini-Prizm-JA-MORANT-Base-249-RC-Rookie-Red-Wave-Prizms-Grizzlies-/124046986374

edit: FYI, I reached out to Hawthorne Collectibles to ask if the scratch was on card or case. They responded within a few minutes and said it was on the case, with pics to show it. Any bidder had plenty of time to ask and get that answer from them.

You’re really reaching here man. Almost no one takes the time to contact if scratch is on case or card there’s so many options and so many Ja cards no one has time for that. I’ve never reached out to a seller like that. 99.9% of buyers base off photos. Also yes people are wary of buying my from Chinese sellers regardless of feedback, especially with increased shipping times and how fast the market moves. So far all these examples are pretty obvious reasons.

[mvp]

It doesn’t matter if it’s cryptocurrency, domain names, or basketball cards... if there is money to made you can be sure the whale groups are pulling strings behind the scenes.

[pharmboymatt]

You’re really reaching here man. Almost no one takes the time to contact if scratch is on case or card there’s so many options and so many Ja cards no one has time for that. I’ve never reached out to a seller like that. 99.9% of buyers base off photos. Also yes people are wary of buying my from Chinese sellers regardless of feedback, especially with increased shipping times and how fast the market moves. So far all these examples are pretty obvious reasons.

So you think these auctions are totally legit and nobody is artificially pumping prices?

[KhalDrogo]

It doesn’t matter if it’s cryptocurrency, domain names, or basketball cards... if there is money to made you can be sure the whale groups are pulling strings behind the scenes.
Don’t even need to be a whale to do it. Just a BO account.

[Justin7]

So you think these auctions are totally legit and nobody is artificially pumping prices?

The examples you stated yeah
It does happen in the hobby a lot though but those auctions you mentioned make perfect sense

[mvp]

Don’t even need to be a whale to do it. Just a BO account.

That’s true. You could probably hit all the low BIN’s on eBay if any OK-ish rookie, jump on here and start a hype thread citing the rising floor and watch things go bananas. Would only cost a few hundred bucks.

[JoeAdam]

It's not that hard to understand. If you own 100 $50 cards, it's in your interest to set up a second account with 5-10 of these listed at $100, buy them from yourself (or a friend) and set the market price higher. People refer to the recently sold listings and will see that 10 have sold for $100 and all of the sudden prices will rise.

DISCLAIMER: I don't do this

[brothertona]

Usually for cards I want I'll try and find one that allows me to make an offer so I can put in the price I think the card is worth. I know it's not going to work every time, but it's also the way I run my auctions, I put them in at a price I would love for the card and price in an offer on the card.

[Stackfan]

I think it's the cards that look centered and will grade well, that sell for 1.5-2x. But I do agree there is some artificial price inflation, or just people who watch a .99 auction, and never look for BIN.

I noticed this with Jarrett Culver. His silver auctions were going up to 50-60$, while his BIN were 30-50$.

[smalltown]

Don’t even need to be a whale to do it. Just a BO account.

This. Every time someone starts a thread of a player on here if i have a card listed on COMC it sells within hours of the thread. It doesn't take a big group. Or a master plan. It literally takes one person to post a take and another person to back it up.

[Pblev26]

You’re really reaching here man. Almost no one takes the time to contact if scratch is on case or card there’s so many options and so many Ja cards no one has time for that. I’ve never reached out to a seller like that. 99.9% of buyers base off photos. Also yes people are wary of buying my from Chinese sellers regardless of feedback, especially with increased shipping times and how fast the market moves. So far all these examples are pretty obvious reasons.

I tend to agree. I trust auctions more than BIN, personally. Framing of the pictures matter alot as does the seller location, feedback rating, case condition etc. All of these variables factor into final price, so a BIN vs. auction is not always apples to apples. Also, market psychology comes into play - buyers sometimes stay away from BIN if its been listed for awhile as they feel the card isn't in demand or could be undesirable or potentially fraudulent in some way and they don't want to be the one person stuck with the card. They ask themselves why others haven't picked it up already, is something wrong with it etc. An auction where others are bidding on an item provides some confidence to the buyer and legitimacy to the process and it shows that the card is in demand, which leads to higher prices. Whether this is a right or wrong is another question.