ESPN 25 under 25 - 2020

[yiguiri2002]

ESPN just released their annual 25 under 25 NBA list. I'll say it's pretty solid when it comes to the Top 5 and then it's all over the place.

I've added age, BPM, WS/48, RAPTOR, PIPM and RPM rankings next to all players listed.

1. Luka Doncic (21, 5th, 15th, 5th, 5th, 4th)
2. Zion Williamson (19.7, 52nd, 58th, 62nd, 46th, 16th)
3. Jayson Tatum (22, 19th, 57th, 13th, 10th, 24th)
4. Ben Simmons (23.6, 22nd, 36th, 59th, 40th, 19th)
5. Karl-Anthony Towns (24.3, 8th, 21st, 7th, 17th, 22nd)
6. Donovan Mitchell (23.5, 47th, >100th, >100th, >100th, 69th)
7. Ja Morant (20.6, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
8. Trae Young (21.5, 16th, 74th, 24th, 66th, 43rd)
9. Brandon Ingram (22.5, 38th, 89th, 94th, >100th, 60th)
10. Devin Booker (23.3, 69th, 85th, >100th, 74th, 48th)
11. Shai-Gilgeous Alexander (21.6, 81st, >100th, >100th, 90th, >100th)
12. Bam Adebayo (22.6, 23rd, 37th, 72nd, 24th, 59th)
13. Jaylen Brown (23.4, >100th, 93rd, >100th, >100th, 31st)
14. D'Angelo Russell (24, 55th, >100th, >100th, >100th, 49th)
15. De'Aaron Fox (22.2, 77th, >100th, >100th, 84th, 38th)
16. Zach LaVine (24.9, 41st, >100th, >100th, >100th, 30th)
17. Jaren Jackson Jr. (20.5, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
18. DeAndre Ayton (21.6, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
19. Jamal Murray (23, 95th, >100th, 78th, 47th, >100th)
20. Kristaps Porzingis (24.6, 62nd, 71st, 68th, 11th, 21st)
21. Jonathan Isaac (22.4, 53rd, >100th, 30th, 55th, 98th)
22. Domantas Sabonis (23.8, 30th, 47th, >100th, 39th, >100th)
23. Michael Porter Jr. (21.7, 86th, 56th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
24. John Collins (22.4, 31st, 43rd, >100th, 96th, 73rd)
25. Lonzo Ball (22.4, 100th, >100th, >100th, 87th, 86th)

Personally, I think Mitchell, Ja and SGA are too high and Adebayo, Porzingis and Collins are too low. Can't think of any omissions except for maybe Mitchell Robinson or Jarrett Allen.

[bradical]

Crazy that JJJ is the second-youngest on the list.

[Dnic]

Zion shouldn't even be in the top 10 lol

[chris_ac]

So Towns is a pretty good player but doesn’t win much and finally got thrashed by the injury bug this season. I guess his ratings are meaningless lol

[blastman]

Probably only 5 names on this list that will mean anything in a few years.

[Boo]

Where is BMI?

[ovt]

Jonathan Isaac! My man.

[TSonn]

Simmons at 4 seems way too high. Maybe he belongs there just going off stats, but there's a low ceiling for a guy who doesn't shoot 3s and that ceiling should put him in the 12-15 range. A lot of guys on this list have a much higher ceiling.

[asujbl]

Simmons at 4 seems way too high. Maybe he belongs there just going off stats, but there's a low ceiling for a guy who doesn't shoot 3s and that ceiling should put him in the 12-15 range. A lot of guys on this list have a much higher ceiling.

You can't seriously believe this.

Simmons is flirting with the Top 15 players in the league, especially as a 2 way player, not Top 15 on this list.

[blastman]

I also feel Ben Simmons is a bum.

[TheWharf]

I was actually just about to say that I'd have Tatum and Simmons 2 and 3. I'm good with either order. And I'd knock Zion down to 4 at best.

It's hard for me to throw a guy that's only played 17 games into the top 3 of a list of guys that have been playing at a high level for multiple years.

[progers9119]

I raise an eyebrow at SGA over De'Aaron Fox. Like both players, just think more highly of Fox.

[yiguiri2002]

FWIW this is my Top 10:

1. Luka
2. Zion
3. KAT
4. Tatum
5. Simmons
6. Trae
7. Booker
8. Porzingis
9. Mitchell
10. Adebayo

[babyfaceposey]

Zion shouldn't even be in the top 10 lol

That is insane talk. He is a monster. Damn near already unstoppable around the rim. Works on his shot and becomes a decent perimeter shooter and the sky is the limit.

[ballhawkdawk]

I don’t think the list is bad. I’d have to see the criteria... Zion at 2 is very generous considering he’s played only a handful of games and the Pels are like a .500 team with him playing. He’s an impressive athlete and has a ton of potential, but there seems to be a lot of weight given to that potential (no pun LOLOLOLOL). Luka, Tatum, Simmons, Trae, and Mitchell have established themselves as faces of their respective franchises and as team leaders. Three of them have been into the second round of the playoffs (or further). I need to see more of Zion to even fairly rank him, but 2 just ain’t feel right at this point.

[TSonn]

You can't seriously believe this.

Simmons is flirting with the Top 15 players in the league, especially as a 2 way player, not Top 15 on this list.

Oof, I was serious. Maybe 12-15 is harsh, but I'd put him around 10.

I guess let's watch the playoffs and see how well Simmons does. My guess is he's not very productive when defenses dare him to shoot and pack the lane again.

There are plenty of guys on this list (not already ranked higher) without a huge gap in their game:

Mitchell
Towns
Morant
Porzingis
Ingram

And I'd also put Trae ahead of him because I think defense is easier to cover with the rest of the team compared to a player who won't shoot the 3.

[asujbl]

He isn’t on the list yet, although the potential is there, but RJ Barrett has quietly been killing it in 2020 at age 19

I might take him over a guy like MPJ if it’s “future” based

[Eighty]

1. Luka
2.Tatum
3. Mitchell
4. Trae
5. Brown
6. LaVine
7. Booker
8. Ja
9. Zion
10. Ingram
11. Simmons
12. Sabonis

Quick freestyle





ESPN just released their annual 25 under 25 NBA list. I'll say it's pretty solid when it comes to the Top 5 and then it's all over the place.

I've added age, BPM, WS/48, RAPTOR, PIPM and RPM rankings next to all players listed.

1. Luka Doncic (21, 5th, 15th, 5th, 5th, 4th)
2. Zion Williamson (19.7, 52nd, 58th, 62nd, 46th, 16th)
3. Jayson Tatum (22, 19th, 57th, 13th, 10th, 24th)
4. Ben Simmons (23.6, 22nd, 36th, 59th, 40th, 19th)
5. Karl-Anthony Towns (24.3, 8th, 21st, 7th, 17th, 22nd)
6. Donovan Mitchell (23.5, 47th, >100th, >100th, >100th, 69th)
7. Ja Morant (20.6, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
8. Trae Young (21.5, 16th, 74th, 24th, 66th, 43rd)
9. Brandon Ingram (22.5, 38th, 89th, 94th, >100th, 60th)
10. Devin Booker (23.3, 69th, 85th, >100th, 74th, 48th)
11. Shai-Gilgeous Alexander (21.6, 81st, >100th, >100th, 90th, >100th)
12. Bam Adebayo (22.6, 23rd, 37th, 72nd, 24th, 59th)
13. Jaylen Brown (23.4, >100th, 93rd, >100th, >100th, 31st)
14. D'Angelo Russell (24, 55th, >100th, >100th, >100th, 49th)
15. De'Aaron Fox (22.2, 77th, >100th, >100th, 84th, 38th)
16. Zach LaVine (24.9, 41st, >100th, >100th, >100th, 30th)
17. Jaren Jackson Jr. (20.5, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
18. DeAndre Ayton (21.6, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
19. Jamal Murray (23, 95th, >100th, 78th, 47th, >100th)
20. Kristaps Porzingis (24.6, 62nd, 71st, 68th, 11th, 21st)
21. Jonathan Isaac (22.4, 53rd, >100th, 30th, 55th, 98th)
22. Domantas Sabonis (23.8, 30th, 47th, >100th, 39th, >100th)
23. Michael Porter Jr. (21.7, 86th, 56th, >100th, >100th, >100th)
24. John Collins (22.4, 31st, 43rd, >100th, 96th, 73rd)
25. Lonzo Ball (22.4, 100th, >100th, >100th, 87th, 86th)

Personally, I think Mitchell, Ja and SGA are too high and Adebayo, Porzingis and Collins are too low. Can't think of any omissions except for maybe Mitchell Robinson or Jarrett Allen.

[asujbl]

1. Luka
2.Tatum
3. Mitchell
4. Trae
5. Brown
6. LaVine
7. Booker
8. Ja
9. Zion
10. Ingram
11. Simmons
12. Sabonis

Quick freestyle

I don’t even like Zion...

But come on now

You can’t be the worst defensive player in the history of Basketball and be Top 5

[ballhawkdawk]

Oof, I was serious. Maybe 12-15 is harsh, but I'd put him around 10.

I guess let's watch the playoffs and see how well Simmons does. My guess is he's not very productive when defenses dare him to shoot and pack the lane again.

There are plenty of guys on this list (not already ranked higher) without a huge gap in their game:

Mitchell
Towns
Morant
Porzingis
Ingram

And I'd also put Trae ahead of him because I think defense is easier to cover with the rest of the team compared to a player who won't shoot the 3.
I think you’re wrong on your guess. Over his last 15-20 games you could see Simmons took that leap. He still doesn’t shoot conventional jumpers, but he has zero qualms about driving into the teeth of a defense, going to the line, and has been hitting them at 70%. I’m one of his biggest fans on here but also have called him out numerous times. Dude was balling out before the back injury. If we’re giving Tatum the benefit of the doubt with his recent surge of production, then the same applies to Simmons.

I also think the shooting is overblown. Buckets are buckets, and he’s been scoring low 20s PPG lately. Shaq couldn’t shoot 3s, Js, FTs, and he managed to dominate for a decade. Simmons has been playing DPOY caliber defense and guarding the other team’s best player all game. Nobody else does that. Why are we giving Trae a pass for defense? No free passes.

[Jmsiak13]

Simmons at 4 seems way too high. Maybe he belongs there just going off stats, but there's a low ceiling for a guy who doesn't shoot 3s and that ceiling should put him in the 12-15 range. A lot of guys on this list have a much higher ceiling.Not everyone on a team has to shoot 3s lol...i can't believe ppl still talk about this tbh.

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[Jmsiak13]

And how did mpj get in there.. He had a couple big games but Thybulle is looking better

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[Jmsiak13]

I don’t even like Zion...

But come on now

You can’t be the worst defensive player in the history of Basketball and be Top 5Zion needs to expand his game way more or he will struggle next year I feel.. In scoring and defense...plus he's a bit slow off the ball and gets tired pretty fast...i like Zion though but ja is ma man!! Haha

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[ninjacookies]

And how did mpj get in there..

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Does his 8ppg not impress you?






Also; lol@people thinking Zion should be able to shoot more or have more 3's to be ranked higher.


Some people must really despise Giannis' offensive game these past 3 years or think he's extremely overrated.


When you shoot nearly 60% from the field, that means you're averaging 12 points per 10 possessions. If you're shooting even 33% from 3, that means you're averaging 9 points per 10 possessions.

One is clearly more efficient than the other. /math

Unfortunately, not everyone is able to be that hyper efficient from the field, so that argument is null and void.

The biggest problem nowadays, is you have such skilled and physically imposing big men that overthink things and try to be point guards by launching 7-8 3's a night...when they really shouldn't.


Fatboi is a blessing in disguise. It's 90's nostalgia all over again.

[ballhawkdawk]

Zion needs to expand his game way more or he will struggle next year I feel.. In scoring and defense...plus he's a bit slow off the ball and gets tired pretty fast...i like Zion though but ja is ma man!! Haha

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This is why it’s almost absurd to even seriously discuss Zion here. I’m not saying he can’t be on the list, or 2, or whatever, but how can anyone draw any real conclusions at this point? No one knows what he’ll become.

I suspect his conditioning will improve. Coming off a knee injury with limited time to acclimate to the pace of the game is especially hard on a guy his size. But we don’t know that his conditioning will improve. He’s 19 and should improve his game on both ends, but we don’t know that either. The sample size is so small and is based on a Zion that we don’t know if he’s 50%, 100%, or somewhere in between, that you can’t draw any real conclusions yet other than he’s athletic, can dunk, has great body control, has great finishing ability and touch, and has a shot that sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t. He’s shown glimpses of other things, but they could be one offs for all I know. I need at least until midpoint next season to even begin to form a real opinion.

[ninjacookies]

For the record, I think Tatum should 'currently' be ahead of Zion.

But I think this list is heavily age weighted.

Tatum is 3 years older and needed those 3 years to develop before he had his breakout.


Zion's baseline is/was way higher than JT's.

[Jmsiak13]

Does his 8ppg not impress you?






Also; lol@people thinking Zion should be able to shoot more or have more 3's to be ranked higher.


Some people must really despise Giannis' offensive game these past 3 years or think he's extremely overrated.


When you shoot nearly 60% from the field, that means you're averaging 12 points per 10 possessions. If you're shooting even 33% from 3, that means you're averaging 9 points per 10 possessions.

One is clearly more efficient than the other. /math

Unfortunately, not everyone is able to be that hyper efficient from the field, so that argument is null and void.

The biggest problem nowadays, is you have such skilled and physically imposing big men that overthink things and try to be point guards by launching 7-8 3's a night...when they really shouldn't.


Fatboi is a blessing in disguise. It's 90's nostalgia all over again.I wasn't saying he should shoot more 3s..my favourite player is Ben simmons..lol

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[ninjacookies]

I wasn't saying he should shoot more 3s..my favourite player is Ben simmons..lol

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I totally get it.

Simmons is like...one of the most extreme cases of shooting phobia though. Zion shot more 3's in his first game than Simmons in his entire career. That's been the main rub on Ben...but he contributes so much in every other category and is very much a complete player outside of his shot and ft's.


For Zion, he's definitely got range. Shot low 30's in college beyond the arc, and has shown glimpses of the stroke in the NBA. It's a question of when/if he needs to use it. It isn't a problem until it becomes one. Definitely a great weapon for anyone to have.

But I think Zion could benefit most from a soft midrange from 7-12 like Giannis. Once Giannis developed that a few years in...he became virtually unguardable. There's no way to guard a guy that physically imposing and quick if he can continually face you up outside the post or blow by you for an easy dunk/layup. It's a game of pick your poison.

[ballhawkdawk]

For the record, I think Tatum should 'currently' be ahead of Zion.

But I think this list is heavily age weighted.

Tatum is 3 years older and needed those 3 years to develop before he had his breakout.


Zion's baseline is/was way higher than JT's.

We’re also only considering February 2020 Jayson Tatum and assuming this is what we’ll get all the time moving forward. He could’ve just been hot for all we know. Dame was putting up like 50 PPG at one stretch. We all knew that wasn’t real. 30 PPG is a little easier to digest, but can Tatum really keep hitting 48% from deep? I think he’s a great talent and deserving of a spot in the top 5 here no matter how you rank them, but I’m not convinced he’s a upper 20s PPG guy over the long haul until I see a little more of it. The tools are there, for sure.

[ninjacookies]

We’re also only considering February 2020 Jayson Tatum and assuming this is what we’ll get all the time moving forward. He could’ve just been hot for all we know. Dame was putting up like 50 PPG at one stretch. We all knew that wasn’t real. 30 PPG is a little easier to digest, but can Tatum really keep hitting 48% from deep? I think he’s a great talent and deserving of a spot in the top 5 here no matter how you rank them, but I’m not convinced he’s a upper 20s PPG guy over the long haul until I see a little more of it. The tools are there, for sure.



I agree with this. We still haven't seen how Kemba is going to work back into the lineup (he's obviously too talented to be a 12-15ppg guy) both in the regular season and playoffs, since Stephens has never seen Tatum ball out like this. Will they readjust the gameplan? I think Tatum's numbers will cool a bit....just not sure how much. But his ability to play stellar defense has never been questioned...and that's where I think he has a large advantage because he can play 2 way ball. I do want to see a full season of these type of top 5-10 stats though.

[Jmsiak13]

I totally get it.



Simmons is like...one of the most extreme cases of shooting phobia though. Zion shot more 3's in his first game than Simmons in his entire career. That's been the main rub on Ben...but he contributes so much in every other category and is very much a complete player outside of his shot and ft's.





For Zion, he's definitely got range. Shot low 30's in college beyond the arc, and has shown glimpses of the stroke in the NBA. It's a question of when/if he needs to use it. It isn't a problem until it becomes one. Definitely a great weapon for anyone to have.



But I think Zion could benefit most from a soft midrange from 7-12 like Giannis. Once Giannis developed that a few years in...he became virtually unguardable. There's no way to guard a guy that physically imposing and quick if he can continually face you up outside the post or blow by you for an easy dunk/layup. It's a game of pick your poison.Oh definitely and the way he rebounds his own missed shots when he shoots outside the freethrow line is quite amazing.. He would be unstoppable anywhere from mid range to the basket with a worst case scenario off 50% FG shooting lol

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[yiguiri2002]

We’re also only considering February 2020 Jayson Tatum and assuming this is what we’ll get all the time moving forward. He could’ve just been hot for all we know. Dame was putting up like 50 PPG at one stretch. We all knew that wasn’t real. 30 PPG is a little easier to digest, but can Tatum really keep hitting 48% from deep? I think he’s a great talent and deserving of a spot in the top 5 here no matter how you rank them, but I’m not convinced he’s a upper 20s PPG guy over the long haul until I see a little more of it. The tools are there, for sure.

This. I can't understand how a month and a half is good enough for some people to put Tatum as the second best prospect in the league but it's not enough for Zion.

[RogerGodahell]

Tatum has been averaging over 25 PPG for more 3 months now. These are his stats in his last 38 games going back to December 1st.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628891597_d6ef653b14_b.jpg

I'm comfortable saying this is more than a hot streak

[ninjacookies]

Tatum has been averaging over 25 PPG for more 3 months now. These are his stats in his last 38 games going back to December 1st.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628891597_d6ef653b14_b.jpg

I'm comfortable saying this is more than a hot streak



He's a beast.


But there were also quite a few up and down performances there....numerous sub 20 point performances followed by a monster game.

His february 31ppg average greatly skewed things (he was around 21-22ppg the months before that).



Still a beast, and I have no doubts he could easily be a 28ppg type of guy on a squad other than the Celtics that preaches team ball and distribution.

[RogerGodahell]

I'm just trying to point out to people who think Tatum's surge is because of Kemba's absence.

Here are Kemba's stat's over the same timeframe. He's played in 30 of those games since Dec 1. He's only missed 8 games in that stretch.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628132803_1416dc525d_b.jpg

Edit: He's actually missed 13 games after looking at the stats some more but i still don't think it has anything to do with Kemba. If anything i think he's just gained confidence in himself.

[yiguiri2002]

Tatum has been averaging over 25 PPG for more 3 months now. These are his stats in his last 38 games going back to December 1st.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628891597_d6ef653b14_b.jpg

I'm comfortable saying this is more than a hot streak

His games prior the rest were pretty good but not 2nd or 3rd best prospect in the league good. Had he kept that up, I don't think he would have cracked the Top 3 or even the Top 5.

The last month and a half is what have established him as that. He's taken his game to another level. Even after he comes back to earth, I think he's shown he's a Top 10 player.

[sportzluvr1]

Keep sleeping on Domas

[ninjacookies]

Yes, his february is clearly head and shoulders above the rest of his season (which were far from sub-par...but not top 5 good).

Everyone's curious how Kemba is going to work his way back in. Nobody thinks Tatum is going to head into obscurity, but I think it's fair to wonder if Kemba will affect his recent scoring tear. If I'm Stephens, I'm continuing to ride the hot hand.

[RogerGodahell]

His games prior the rest were pretty good but not 2nd or 3rd best prospect in the league good. Had he kept that up, I don't think he would have cracked the Top 3 or even the Top 5.

The last month and a half is what have established him as that. He's taken his game to another level. Even after he comes back to earth, I think he's shown he's a Top 10 player.

Yeah i agree that's when i started noticing it too. He's been playing like this for the last 20 games. It was like Jan 11 or something when it started. My take on it is I think once he knew he was an All-Star, combined with his relationship with Kobe and his passing something clicked in his head. He's been playing amazing since then.

[ballhawkdawk]

Tatum has been averaging over 25 PPG for more 3 months now. These are his stats in his last 38 games going back to December 1st.

[img]https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49628891597_d6ef653b14_b.jpg[]

I'm comfortable saying this is more than a hot streak

That’s fine. But that 25 PPG includes a February/March 13 game 31 PPG run. He needs only under 22 PPG for the other 25 games to have averaged 25 during a 38 game span.

I think it’s easy to believe it with Tatum because he’s always seemed to have the skill. But he’s never done it consistently until very recently. He’s also averaging 48.3% from deep on 9+ attempts per game. That’s significant and also entirely unsustainable.

All I’m saying is I need to see more to believe it’s the new norm. I can’t not consider the larger sample size and crazy high recent 3P%.

[RogerGodahell]

That’s fine. But that 25 PPG includes a February/March 13 game 31 PPG run. He needs only under 22 PPG for the other 25 games to have averaged 25 during a 38 game span.

I think it’s easy to believe it with Tatum because he’s always seemed to have the skill. But he’s never done it consistently until very recently. He’s also averaging 48.3% from deep on 9+ attempts per game. That’s significant and also entirely unsustainable.

All I’m saying is I need to see more to believe it’s the new norm. I can’t not consider the larger sample size and crazy high recent 3P%.

Yeah that's fair. I watch every Celtics game so it's become normal for me already.

[BigBlueFever]

3 Duke players in the top 10
6 UK players in the top 20
Go broke collecting your team.

[imbluestreak23]

I’d say only 4-5 maintain hobby relevance long term

[imbluestreak23]

3 Duke players in the top 10
6 UK players in the top 20
Go broke collecting your team.

Sadly Cal has only brought us one ring despite disproportionate talent.

But I’d go so far as to say that the NBA doesn’t get it right 10% of the time when it comes to talent selection from the ncaa, so who knows

[ninjacookies]

Probably going to take awhile for the Celts offense to get re-acclimated to Kemba's return.

He took 17 shots tonight, so he definitely wasn't gun shy.

[valmak]

Tatum started taking off after Kobe passed. Kobe was his favorite player and he trained with him so maybe his ascent is just a reaction to that and isn’t permanent. Just a theory.

[Ross]

Mitchell top 5 imo. Most consistent of anyone on this list and he wins...


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[pvinpvin]

I think the list is pretty accurate. Especially with the top 3

[ScooterT312]

Give me Coby over MPJ.

[hairyangryfella]

Why do so many people love Jaylen Brown? I just don't see it. Or does he have the potential but just needs to go to a team where he'll be higher in the pecking order (like Ingram did)?

[Jmsiak13]

Mitchell top 5 imo. Most consistent of anyone on this list and he wins...


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe will be the newer version of mitch Richmond and just like mitch will be highly underappreciated

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[ballhawkdawk]

Why do so many people love Jaylen Brown? I just don't see it. Or does he have the potential but just needs to go to a team where he'll be higher in the pecking order (like Ingram did)?

I don’t think he’s all that great and definitely doesn’t have Ingram level offensive potential. He’s a nice piece on a good team who occasionally shines and plays very good man defense. He’s never going to be “the guy.” I just don’t think he has it in him. He’s a great athlete, so I think maybe some people expect him to turn the corner eventually or have those 30 point nights more consistently, but I don’t see it.

Put it this way... Boston has played Philly four times so far. I’m a 76ers fan, hence why I’m cherry picking this matchup... because I’m familiar with it. He was held to single digits the first three games. Yeah, small sample size, but how many really good players (especially shooting guards) get held to single digits that often? You hardly knew he was on the court in some of those games, and it’s his fourth season.

[Jmsiak13]

I don’t think he’s all that great and definitely doesn’t have Ingram level offensive potential. He’s a nice piece on a good team who occasionally shines and plays very good man defense. He’s never going to be “the guy.” I just don’t think he has it in him. He’s a great athlete, so I think maybe some people expect him to turn the corner eventually or have those 30 point nights more consistently, but I don’t see it.



Put it this way... Boston has played Philly four times so far. I’m a 76ers fan, hence why I’m cherry picking this matchup... because I’m familiar with it. He was held to single digits the first three games. Yeah, small sample size, but how many really good players (especially shooting guards) get held to single digits that often? You hardly knew he was on the court in some of those games, and it’s his fourth season.I feel bad for Ingram.. First LeBron comes in and takes alot of scoring away.. Then gets traded and now it's Zion.. The game yesterday showed they don't want him as a first scoring option anymore... He's having such a great year too unfortunately

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[asujbl]

Collin Sexton quietly up to 21/3/3 this year...

[440shane]

Collin Sexton quietly up to 21/3/3 this year...

Was gonna mention that along with how he seems forever tied to SGA due to draft year and Collin going 8 vs SGA at 11. The numbers are eerily similar but fans and especially NBA media make it seem as tho SGA is about to breakout into a superstar and people want Sexton to disappear and become Dion Waiters part 2. Its super strange.

For the record I would take SGA over Sexton long term, but its a ton closer than anyone makes it seem

[Stackfan]

Overall the list looks pretty good imo. I think they are taking upside into account. Could be a lot worse.

[RogerGodahell]

Why do so many people love Jaylen Brown? I just don't see it. Or does he have the potential but just needs to go to a team where he'll be higher in the pecking order (like Ingram did)?

I'm a Celtics fan and appreciate what he does but i'm not really the biggest Brown fan either. He reminds me a lot of Hardaway Jr. This is just my own personal opinion but i think he's a little jealous of Tatum and his success. He will force shots up to get his own. Tatum is more of a natural team player. JB is athletically gifted but i think he's about peaked for what he's going to be as a player.

[asujbl]

Was gonna mention that along with how he seems forever tied to SGA due to draft year and Collin going 8 vs SGA at 11. The numbers are eerily similar but fans and especially NBA media make it seem as tho SGA is about to breakout into a superstar and people want Sexton to disappear and become Dion Waiters part 2. Its super strange.

For the record I would take SGA over Sexton long term, but its a ton closer than anyone makes it seem

Agree with all of this

I’d rather have SGA

Not sure what Sexton did to piss people off

[Jmsiak13]

The greatest start ever... Ah no lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200308/aa43761371ab2378f3b95868e807857e.jpg

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[ninjacookies]

The greatest start ever... Ah no lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200308/aa43761371ab2378f3b95868e807857e.jpg

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How old were those guys year 1?


Asking for a friend.

[Jmsiak13]

How old were those guys year 1?


Asking for a friend.Well in year 1 you're like 5 or 6 aren't you lol

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[ninjacookies]

Well in year 1 you're like 5 or 6 aren't you lol

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Simple question...what were the ages of the guys on that list?

I think Shaq was the youngest at 20. Most of the other guys were either 21-24. Which means extra years of college experience and a better understanding of the game.


Age is pretty much like everything in prospecting. Which is exactly why everyone goes gaga over Zion and Luka's first year. They're not normal.

[Jmsiak13]

Simple question...what were the ages of the guys on that list?



I think Shaq was the youngest at 20. Most of the other guys were either 21-24. Which means extra years of college experience and a better understanding of the game.





Age is pretty much like everything in prospecting. Which is exactly why everyone goes gaga over Zion and Luka's first year. They're not normal.Well most ppl back before the 1 and done valued education just as much hence alot of players stayed the full 4 years..then coaches became like nah he's 22-24 they are stuck in their ways we want younger to mold them the way we want... The media plays a big part in it all. Zions been mentioned something like 27 times on espn and in the same time ja has been mentioned like 7 times.. I just watched a jmxy highroller vid on YouTube and it explains it quite well.. Same last year with luka and trae lol.. Same with Ben simmons and Donovan Mitchell lol

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[ninjacookies]

Well most ppl back before the 1 and done valued education just as much hence alot of players stayed the full 4 years..then coaches became like nah he's 22-24 they are stuck in their ways we want younger to mold them the way we want... The media plays a big part in it all. Zions been mentioned something like 27 times on espn and in the same time ja has been mentioned like 7 times.. I just watched a jmxy highroller vid on YouTube and it explains it quite well.. Same last year with luka and trae lol.. Same with Ben simmons and Donovan Mitchell lol

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I see you've watched the Jimmy Highroller vid...I know Cliffs Notes when I see them. :cool:


Ja is absolutely a stud. But there's a fine difference between them currently. One is having a tremendous rookie season...the other a historical one.


I do not believe there have been better rookie seasons at the age of 19 than Luka and (if he sustains) Zion since Lebron. The hype is completely justified.


Did they have the greatest rookie seasons in history? No. Did they have the greatest 19 year old rookie seasons in history? Very debatable.


The younger, the better (no Epstein). People want early greatness, because that gives better career projections and possibilities at beating longstanding records if health and play permits.

[Jmsiak13]

I see you've watched the Jimmy Highroller vid...I know Cliffs Notes when I see them. :cool:


Ja is absolutely a stud. But there's a fine difference between them currently. One is having a tremendous rookie season...the other a historical one.


I do not believe there have been better rookie seasons at the age of 19 than Luka and (if he sustains) Zion since Lebron. The hype is completely justified.


Did they have the greatest rookie seasons in history? No. Did they have the greatest 19 year old rookie seasons in history? Very debatable.


The younger, the better (no Epstein). People want early greatness, because that gives better career projections and possibilities at beating longstanding records if health and play permits.Haha that Epstein comment [emoji23][emoji23] and yeah gotta love Jimmy high roller lol.. Nah I didn't mean Mitchell or young were better at all.. They aren't.. Well some things they are but I mean more the way espn is so narrow focused when certain rookies play.. Some news about aytons year or jaren Jackson jrs year or even how John Collins is going great or devonte Graham...kendrick nunn is great but I haven't seen one thing on him.. I've seen more about curroso than the other names mentioned lol

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[Jmsiak13]

Haha that Epstein comment [emoji23][emoji23] and yeah gotta love Jimmy high roller lol.. Nah I didn't mean Mitchell or young were better at all.. They aren't.. Well some things they are but I mean more the way espn is so narrow focused when certain rookies play.. Some news about aytons year or jaren Jackson jrs year or even how John Collins is going great or devonte Graham...kendrick nunn is great but I haven't seen one thing on him.. I've seen more about curroso than the other names mentioned lol

Sent from my ANE-LX2J using TapatalkIf he's still alive Gary v will be perusing him about cards lol

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[ninjacookies]

Haha that Epstein comment [emoji23][emoji23] and yeah gotta love Jimmy high roller lol.. Nah I didn't mean Mitchell or young were better at all.. They aren't.. Well some things they are but I mean more the way espn is so narrow focused when certain rookies play.. Some news about aytons year or jaren Jackson jrs year or even how John Collins is going great or devonte Graham...kendrick nunn is great but I haven't seen one thing on him.. I've seen more about curroso than the other names mentioned lol

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Yeah, the media is always unfortunate...they're always about that dolla, dolla bill ya'll.

Regardless what happens, I hope either Zion or Ja gets to sniff the postseason this year. Pretty damn impressive, and I won't be disappointed no matter which one it is. :cool:

[Jmsiak13]

Yeah, the media is always unfortunate...they're always about that dolla, dolla bill ya'll.



Regardless what happens, I hope either Zion or Ja gets to sniff the postseason this year. Pretty damn impressive, and I won't be disappointed no matter which one it is. :cool:Hell yeah.. I'm hoping one of them wins it all.. Ppl will go nuts then [emoji23]

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[SHowley2003]

I'm a Celtics fan and appreciate what he does but i'm not really the biggest Brown fan either. He reminds me a lot of Hardaway Jr. This is just my own personal opinion but i think he's a little jealous of Tatum and his success. He will force shots up to get his own. Tatum is more of a natural team player. JB is athletically gifted but i think he's about peaked for what he's going to be as a player.

I couldn't disagree with this more my friend. What I'm about to say is about the game on the court, not the value of someone in the hobby. Brown is learning to play off the ball and he is excelling. He can play the 2, 3 & 4 against almost anyone in the league. His shooting has developed every season, as has his vision and handle. His role on the team has changed more than any other player over the past 3 seasons and he has handled it as a true professional. Will he ever be the focus of the hobby? No, but he will be an exceptional player that is a force on a championship contender.

Let's not forget that the hobby doesn't love Paul Pierce, Klay Thompson, Kyle Lowry, Scottie Pippen, etc., but those players knew/know how to win. JB is in that category.

[ninjacookies]

I'm hoping one of them wins it all.. Ppl will go nuts then [emoji23]

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Good God. Don't even mention this. The internet just glitched for a second.