**All-Time Basketball Draft Voting - THE FINALS**

[atoaz12]

Poll will run through Friday
This is a head to head matchup
Vote on who you think would win a 7 game series

Atlanta Hawks

Starters

PG: Damian Lillard- big time, clutch performer – ROY - 4x All NBA – 5x All-Star – 24.0 ppg 6.5 assts and 4.2 reb for his career – (10) 50+ point games including 60 and 61 point outings
SG: Allan Houston – Knicks sharp shooter w/ 40% 3P for his career – 2x All-Star – twice dropped 50+ - 17.3 PPG w/ 63 career playoff games where he put up 19.3 PPG
SF: Lebron James - 3x Champion and 4x MVP - is on the short list for conversation of GOAT - ability to guard all 5 positions and will likely end his career in the top 3 of points and assists
PF: Al Horford – 5x All-Star – All NBA and All Defensive Team – Glue player that has been to the playoffs in 11 of his 13 seasons after 2 NCAA Titles at Florida
C: Pau Gasol – 2x Champion – ROY – 4x All NBA – 6x All Star – 17 PPG and 9 RPG over an 18 year career

Bench

SF: Peja Stojakovic – 1x Champion – 3x All Star – 1x All NBA – 40% Career 3P Shooter w/ a high of 44% - 17 PPG Career w/ a high of 24 PPG
PG: Steve Francis – ROY - 3x All Star – ‘Stevie Franchise’ avg 18.1 PPG, 6 Assists, 5.6 Reb., 1.5 Steals over his career
PF: Zach Randolph – 2x All Star – 1x All NBA – ‘Z-Bo’ is a load – 9x’s averaged a double-double in his 17 years – highs of 23.6 PPG and 12.5 RPG
SG: Jerry Stackhouse – 2x All Star – Avg. 16.1 PPG over his 18 years – 29.8 PPG in 2000-01 including a 57 point outburst against the Bulls
PF/C: Derrick Coleman – ROY – 1x All Star – 2x All NBA – the #1 pick in 1990 5x’s avg. a double-double – 16.5 PPG and 9.3 RPG over his 15 NBA Season
SF: Jamal Mashburn – 1x All Star – 1x All NBA – avg. 20+ PPG in 6 of 11 seasons dropping 50 twice – 19.1 PPG, 5.4 RPG and 4 Assts. for his career
PG: Derek Fisher - 5x NBA Champion - Clutch performer capable of running an offense and hitting big shots

Coach

Larry Bird - Larry Legend has a .687 win % and went ECF, ECF and Finals in his 3 seasons on the bench

Overview

The idea was to put floor spacers/shooters around Lebron and we've done that with Dame, Houston, Stack, Franchise and Peja along with stretch bigs like Al, Pau and Mashburn. Added toughness in Z-Bo and Coleman. Team has the ability to deploy a lot of different lineups depending on who we're up against. The majority of that hinges on prime Lebron's amazing ability to play any position on the floor. Believe our second unit is second to none in fire power.

----------------------------------

Houston Rockets

Starters

PG: Ben Simmons (6'10,230) (Australian)- 2x All Star, ROY, A specimen and facilitator that creates mismatches with his size and driving ability. Threat to triple double in every match-up. Assists, penetration and defense.
SG: Drazen Petrovic (6'5,195) (Croation)- Hall of Famer.One of the most dangerous perimeter shooters of his time. Important pioneer that dramatically influenced International players to the NBA. Perimeter shooting and X-factor.
SF: Giannis Antetokounmpo (6'11,242) (Greek)- 2019 MVP, All-NBA First Team and 2xAll-NBA Second Team,All-Defensive First Team, All-Defensive Second Team, 4x All-Star. Generational talent that can play any position. Focus of offense.
PF: Anthony Davis (6'10,253) (American)- 3xAll-NBA First Team,All-Defensive First Team,2xAll-Defensive Second Team, 7x All Star, 3xNBA Blocks Champ. Double-double career average.2012 Olympic Gold. Offensive and Defensive force.
C: Dikembe Mutombo (7'2, 245) (Congolese)- Hall of Famer. 4xDefensive Player of the Year,3xAll-NBA,6xAll-Defensive Team,3x Block Champ,2x Rebound Champ. Defensive prowess.

Bench

PG: Ricky Rubio (6'3,190) (Spanish)- All-Rookie. Will get the ball to who needs it. Averages 7.8 assists per game over career.Offensive facilitator.
G: Steve “Ice” Kerr (6'3, 175) (American)- 5x NBA Champion as a player. Highest 3-Point percentage in NBA history. Perimeter shooting.
SG: Latrell Sprewell (6'5,190) (American)- All-NBA First Team,All-Defensive Second Team,All-Rookie,4xAll-Star. Offensive prowess.
F: Anthony Mason (6'7, 250) (American)- Sixth Man of the Year, All-NBA Third Team, All-Defensive Second Team. All-Star. Finished Top 15 twice in MVP voting.Toughness and defense
PF: Lauri Markannen (7'0,240) (Finnish)- Capability to pull double-doubles nightly. Stretch 4 and Stretch 5.
PF: Serge Ibaka (7'0 235) (Congolese)- 3xAll-Defensive First Team,2xBlock Champion, NBA Champion. Mt. Mutombo calls him his little brother. Stretch 4 and Defensive prowess.
C: DeAndre Jordan (6'11, 265) (American)- All-NBA First Team,2x All-NBA Third Team, 2xAll-NBA Defensive First Team,All-Star,2xRebound Champion. Defense and Rebound Machine

Coach

John Kundla- Hall of Fame Coach, NBA at 50 Top 10 Coach,5x NBA Champion,4x All-Star Game Coach,College Basketball Hall of Fame, World War II Veteran.

Overview

The Rockets AKA "Monstars" are a perfect blend of elite offense paired with ferocious defense. We start with 6’10 PG mismatch Big Ben facilitating to upper echleon offensive forces. The focus is the generational talent and unstoppable Greek Freak paired with the relentless Anthony Davis in the post. Deadly perimeter shooter Drazen Petrovic sets up outside ready for the kick out. On the other side of the floor, the Monstars tenacious defense is anchored by 4x Defensive Player of the Year Mount Mutombo with All-Defensive First Team players,The Brow and Giannis in support. What sets my team apart are the high caliber players on the bench ready to compete. Subs include Sixth Man of the Year Anthony Mason and another facilitator in Rubio. Offensive weapons Kerr and Spree are available to drop from downrange when needed. 7’0 Serge or 7’0 Lauri come off the bench to add “splash” and match-up issues at Stretch 4 or 5. DeAndre completes the team with superior rebounding and defense. This team is a problem for players of any era. Basketball has an influence that stretches the globe. With players from multiple countries, my team epitomizes how the NBA has impacted the world.

[the mesiah]

Whoever has bron bron will win, :coffee:

[atoaz12]

The Rockets have gotten to this point based on size alone, not roster construction

Going to ask 3 questions:

1) Who's hitting shots for Houston?
Outside of Drazen, where are your shooters? The whole team wants to live in the paint and we know that you have to space in today's NBA. Houston can't do it.
The Rockets GM is going to counter with Steve Kerr and Lauri Markenan.... let that sink in for a minute
Kerr started 30 games... in his career
In a shortened season, my power forward Al Horford hit more 3's than any of Kerr's seasons except 2. Peja's best year DOUBLED Kerr's best season and he hit 43% that season... Markkanen's best year was 36% on 100 less makes... yikes
And Ben Simmons... amazing talent. But not built for the playoffs - smart teams pack the paint and with no shooters/spacing, he's ineffective. In 11 games against the Celtics pre-2020, his +/- was -125 in 420 minutes. Brad Stevens eats his lunch. And so will Bird/Lebron

2) Who's taking the big shot? Aka no one with big game pedigree

Once again, when Kerr is your main argument... no bueno
He's the only guy on that team with a ring or a moment.

3) Where are the points coming from on the bench?

Once again, no shooters or scorers. If you want to offer up Sprewell, sure. He score 20 ppg 4 times and each of those seasons he had to take 17 shots per game to get there! One year shooting 39%!
My second unit will run circles on those guys.
Every single one of them can shoot, score and do so efficiently.

[ballhawkdawk]

Houston all F’n day. Too much beast. In typical Lebron fashion, he falls short in the finals.

Edit: The Houston Rockets are 2000 Ravens level defensive good. It’s game changing. The top 3 all around defenders in the NBA on one team... plus Mutombo. Nobody is getting buckets on them.

[atoaz12]

Houston all F’n day. Too much beast. In typical Lebron fashion, he falls short in the finals.

Edit: The Houston Rockets are 2000 Ravens level defensive good. It’s game changing. The top 3 all around defenders in the NBA on one team... plus Mutombo. Nobody is getting buckets on them.

Except for the 3 times he didn’t
And only one time he lost did he have the better team (Mavs series)

Also, Dame has played Simmons 4 times, 30+ points twice

In this hypothetical matchup, I’m bringing nothing but facts to the table, gents :)!

[Archangel1775]

I have to be honest, my concern with Big Ben was the results of him competing against someone similar to AI. Dame is pretty close.

[gomiamigo]

I mean, Dame is good and all but you honestly don't think he's gonna shoot 8-11 from deep every time out vs Simmons do you? He also had 7 turnovers that game which is legit bad.

Game before that in Philly, Ben dropped a 29-7-10 on his head while Dame couldn't even get 20, finishing with 17. And before that in Portland Ben outscored him 19 to 15 in fewer minutes.

If Dame has to hit 70% from 3 to outscore Ben Simmons half the time, his team is getting swept in this matchup.

#JustTheFacts

[hairyangryfella]

This is so close that for me it comes down to two things: bench and Finals experience, which Atlanta slightly edge despite being short a player?

[thejazzcollector]

Went with the Hawks mainly cause of experience and the pieces around LeBron compliment him well. Fairly surprised that the team leading the Finals vote in an all time redraft vote have so few players that have won a championship before.

[atoaz12]

I mean, Dame is good and all but you honestly don't think he's gonna shoot 8-11 from deep every time out vs Simmons do you? He also had 7 turnovers that game which is legit bad.

Game before that in Philly, Ben dropped a 29-7-10 on his head while Dame couldn't even get 20, finishing with 17. And before that in Portland Ben outscored him 19 to 15 in fewer minutes.

If Dame has to hit 70% from 3 to outscore Ben Simmons half the time, his team is getting swept in this matchup.

#JustTheFacts

Soooooooo they split who played better? Doesn’t change the fact that Simmons gave up 30 to him twice out four. Despite being this ‘defensive black hole’
Even though the teams split the 4 matchups and Simmons has the FAR better supporting cast in Philly...

He’s gonna struggle with Dame over 7 games and then if Rubio ends up having to spend time on him... yikes

[atoaz12]

The Rockets have gotten to this point based on size alone, not roster construction

Going to ask 3 questions:

1) Who's hitting shots for Houston?
Outside of Drazen, where are your shooters? The whole team wants to live in the paint and we know that you have to space in today's NBA. Houston can't do it.
The Rockets GM is going to counter with Steve Kerr and Lauri Markenan.... let that sink in for a minute
Kerr started 30 games... in his career
In a shortened season, my power forward Al Horford hit more 3's than any of Kerr's seasons except 2. Peja's best year DOUBLED Kerr's best season and he hit 43% that season... Markkanen's best year was 36% on 100 less makes... yikes
And Ben Simmons... amazing talent. But not built for the playoffs - smart teams pack the paint and with no shooters/spacing, he's ineffective. In 11 games against the Celtics pre-2020, his +/- was -125 in 420 minutes. Brad Stevens eats his lunch. And so will Bird/Lebron

2) Who's taking the big shot? Aka no one with big game pedigree

Once again, when Kerr is your main argument... no bueno
He's the only guy on that team with a ring or a moment.

3) Where are the points coming from on the bench?

Once again, no shooters or scorers. If you want to offer up Sprewell, sure. He score 20 ppg 4 times and each of those seasons he had to take 17 shots per game to get there! One year shooting 39%!
My second unit will run circles on those guys.
Every single one of them can shoot, score and do so efficiently.

And no one can answer these?
Not even an attempt? :D

[GeechQuest]

And no one can answer these?
Not even an attempt? :D

You know the answer.

If this Rockets team is supposed to win in an All-Time NBA redraft, why have we never heard anybody even float the idea of trying to team 2 of the 3 selected here?

It doesn’t work. GMs know this. The Rockets, while they may be good individual defenders (defending the paint) aren’t some god given NBA defensive unit. Some dude compared them to the Ravens as a defensive unit. That’s laughable.

Between Ben, Giannis, and AD they have combined for 2 Total NBA All-Defensive 1st teams. Let that sink in for a minute. This amazing defensive unit that has somehow managed to be voted to the Finals on this forum has 2 NBA All-Defensive First team selections in a combined 15 seasons. Those guys have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs THREE TIMES in 15 seasons.

This team would average 60 points in this series. They’re not scoring at all!

To put it in perspective, Pau Gasol has a better career 3 point % than 4 of the 5 Rockets starters. Al Horford has made more 3 pointers than everybody on the Rockets. Don’t even give me the “he’s been in the league longer” junk. By the time AD made the league Horford had made a grand total of THREE 3pt shots. By the time Giannis came into the league his career total was SIX.

4-0 series sweep with an average margin of victory of at least 25.

[ballhawkdawk]

Soooooooo they split who played better? Doesn’t change the fact that Simmons gave up 30 to him twice out four. Despite being this ‘defensive black hole’
Even though the teams split the 4 matchups and Simmons has the FAR better supporting cast in Philly...

He’s gonna struggle with Dame over 7 games and then if Rubio ends up having to spend time on him... yikes

I let this slide the first time... Simmons didn’t give up 30 to Dame ever. Watch the tape. Those two don’t guard each other man up all game. I don’t know what the exact numbers are, but Dame isn’t roasting Ben. Devin Booker put it on Simmons in a game where he was scoring at will against anyone, but other than that it’s been rough times for anyone Simmons is guarding.

Take a look if you doubt his defense: https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba/news/stat-just-happened-the-star-stopping-potential-of-ben-simmons/clz3373l9qxg1db3an532zixn

Nobody spends more time guarding elite players than Simmons, and he’s really damn good at it. Not to mention he leads the NBA in hustle stats like deflections and loose balls recovered (maybe top 3 or so, but he’s up there).

[atoaz12]

This is so close that for me it comes down to two things: bench and Finals experience, which Atlanta slightly edge despite being short a player?

Went this whole time without Derek Fisher haha
Nice catch!

[ballhawkdawk]

You know the answer.

If this Rockets team is supposed to win in an All-Time NBA redraft, why have we never heard anybody even float the idea of trying to team 2 of the 3 selected here?

It doesn’t work. GMs know this. The Rockets, while they may be good individual defenders (defending the paint) aren’t some god given NBA defensive unit. Some dude compared them to the Ravens as a defensive unit. That’s laughable.

Between Ben, Giannis, and AD they have combined for 2 Total NBA All-Defensive 1st teams. Let that sink in for a minute. This amazing defensive unit that has somehow managed to be voted to the Finals on this forum has 2 NBA All-Defensive First team selections in a combined 15 seasons. Those guys have made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs THREE TIMES in 15 seasons.

This team would average 60 points in this series. They’re not scoring at all!

To put it in perspective, Pau Gasol has a better career 3 point % than 4 of the 5 Rockets starters. Al Horford has made more 3 pointers than everybody on the Rockets. Don’t even give me the “he’s been in the league longer” junk. By the time AD made the league Horford had made a grand total of THREE 3pt shots. By the time Giannis came into the league his career total was SIX.

4-0 series sweep with an average margin of victory of at least 25.

I’m not adding up all defensive team nominations. I watch basketball. I see these dudes dominate on the defensive end. If we’re comparing resumes, this Rockets team would’ve been a first round exit, but that’s not what this is about.

Tell you what... you tell me who’s a better all around defender than Giannis, Ben, or AD right now.

[atoaz12]

I let this slide the first time... Simmons didn’t give up 30 to Dame ever. Watch the tape. Those two don’t guard each other man up all game. I don’t know what the exact numbers are, but Dame isn’t roasting Ben. Devin Booker put it on Simmons in a game where he was scoring at will against anyone, but other than that it’s been rough times for anyone Simmons is guarding.

Take a look if you doubt his defense: https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba/news/stat-just-happened-the-star-stopping-potential-of-ben-simmons/clz3373l9qxg1db3an532zixn

Nobody spends more time guarding elite players than Simmons, and he’s really damn good at it. Not to mention he leads the NBA in hustle stats like deflections and loose balls recovered (maybe top 3 or so, but he’s up there).

If Ben is the star stopper and also the PG, why wasnt he guarding the other teams star who also happens to be a PG?

Dame scored what he scored on Ben’s team. If they didn’t make the switch, there was a reason

In this scenario, they’d be matched up and it’d be entertaining.

Either way, this matchup doesn’t swing the series.

Houston’s compete lack of depth and shooting does

[atoaz12]

Tell you what... you tell me who’s a better all around defender than Giannis, Ben, or AD right now.

We’re not doubting that.
But this scenario is all these players at their peak

And Lebron, Horford, ZBo and Gasol were defensive monsters in their own right
Plus they and their teammates can put the ball in the basket multiple ways, not just the paint

Houston’s bench is offensive. And not in the point scoring way :D

[ballhawkdawk]

If Ben is the star stopper and also the PG, why wasnt he guarding the other teams star who also happens to be a PG?

Dame scored what he scored on Ben’s team. If they didn’t make the switch, there was a reason

In this scenario, they’d be matched up and it’d be entertaining.

Either way, this matchup doesn’t swing the series.

Houston’s compete lack of depth and shooting does

Man up position vs position guarding doesn’t always happen on every possession. The modern day NBA is transition heavy. It’s just how the game is, not some conscious effort to get Simmons off of Dame.

If you read the link, you’d see a number of elite scorers struggled against Simmons, but their shots taken against him didn’t account for their shots all game. Blows a hole in the logic that they’re trying to hide Simmons on defense.

I’ll paste it so we can’t keep pretending the content in the link doesn’t exist...

2-9 shooting by LeBron James.
2-11 shooting by Trae Young.
5-16 shooting by Jayson Tatum.
5-19 shooting by Pascal Siakam.
4-14 shooting by Russell Westbrook.
3-9 shooting by James Harden.

Full disclosure, I watch a lot of Ben Simmons. I’m also one of his biggest critics on Blowout, but the man can defend at a very elite level. Like DPOY type level. He certainly was in the mix before he hurt his back this year.

[atoaz12]

Man up position vs position guarding doesn’t always happen on every possession. The modern day NBA is transition heavy. It’s just how the game is, not some conscious effort to get Simmons off of Dame.

If you read the link, you’d see a number of elite scorers struggled against Simmons, but their shots taken against him didn’t account for their shots all game. Blows a hole in the logic that they’re trying to hide Simmons on defense.

I’ll paste it so we can’t keep pretending the content in the link doesn’t exist...

2-9 shooting by LeBron James.
2-11 shooting by Trae Young.
5-16 shooting by Jayson Tatum.
5-19 shooting by Pascal Siakam.
4-14 shooting by Russell Westbrook.
3-9 shooting by James Harden.

Full disclosure, I watch a lot of Ben Simmons. I’m also one of his biggest critics on Blowout, but the man can defend at a very elite level. Like DPOY type level. He certainly was in the mix before he hurt his back this year.

I read it. And I don’t see Dame’s name on that list

My facts are he dropped 30, 50% of the time on Ben’s team

Everything else I’m seeing is opinion

[ballhawkdawk]

We’re not doubting that.
But this scenario is all these players at their peak

And Lebron, Horford, ZBo and Gasol were defensive monsters in their own right
Plus they and their teammates can put the ball in the basket multiple ways, not just the paint

Houston’s bench is offensive. And not in the point scoring way :D

Geech is doubting it. He added up two All-NBA Defensive first teams and called it a day.

Which version of Lebron are we going with? He’s transformed over his career. He wasn’t nearly the passer he is now earlier in his career, and isn’t the defender now that he was earlier in his career.

[ballhawkdawk]

I read it. And I don’t see Dame’s name on that list

My facts are he dropped 30, 50% of the time on Ben’s team

Everything else I’m seeing is opinion

Just stick him on Lebron then. 2/9.

[atoaz12]

Geech is doubting it. He added up two All-NBA Defensive first teams and called it a day.

Which version of Lebron are we going with? He’s transformed over his career. He wasn’t nearly the passer he is now earlier in his career, and isn’t the defender now that he was earlier in his career.

You mean like 09-10 when he averaged 8.6 assists? Third highest in his career?
With Mo Williams as his second leading scorer? :D

Just stick him on Lebron then. 2/9.

And put Petrovic on Dame??? Yikes.

And you still can’t tell me who’s making a shot on that roster and who is giving you anything off the bench

[GeechQuest]

I’m not adding up all defensive team nominations. I watch basketball. I see these dudes dominate on the defensive end. If we’re comparing resumes, this Rockets team would’ve been a first round exit, but that’s not what this is about.

Tell you what... you tell me who’s a better all around defender than Giannis, Ben, or AD right now.

Gobert, better than all.
Kawhi/Jimmy Butler, way better on/off ball defender.

If you watch basketball, what are all the people who vote on the defensive team awards watching? They aren’t including these guys in that upper echelon of the league NOW, you think they make it in an All-Time redraft?

You realize these dudes give up buckets right? Lebron averages 28 against Giannis in their matchups over their careers.

It’s not that the team wouldn’t be good defensively. They would. It’s not some all-time defensive team though, that’s all.

The main point is this team would be HORRENDOUS on offense. You’re seriously talking All-Time worst offensive team ever. Hard to balance that out with an above average defense.

[GeechQuest]

Lebron James - 16 seasons, 5 NBA All-Defensive 1st Teams

Mutombo/Davis/Giannis/Simmons/Petrovic- 39 seasons, 5 NBA All-Defensive 1st Teams

Giannis surrounded with shooters and running the point - Awesome!
Giannis surrounded by no shooters and running point- Not so good

Simmons not running the point, ineffective.
Giannis not running the point, ineffective.

These dudes just don’t blend well together offensively. Giannis HAS to run point. That’s how he’s become so effective. That leaves Ben and Mutumbo as complete non threats offensively and now you’re playing 3 on 5 in the half court. Giannis won’t have any room to operate because that offense is spaced horribly.

Simmons averages 5 a game
Petrovic averages 8 a game
Giannis averages 17 a game
Davis averages 23 a game
Mutumbo averages 5 a game.

That’s the absolute BEST case scenario offensively. The Rockets would never get any looks in the paint at the basket, and that’s where over half the dudes score from.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49891456751_ac876b960f.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49890942573_ffd2d16362.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49890941413_0de7232f27.jpg

Mutumbo’s is worse than all of them.

I can’t even imagine.

[jstasyk1121]

This is an All Time draft and the team that looks like it will win the whole thing has 3 players that are 23, 25 and 27 starting...just think about that....

those 3 i am a fan of...but like cmon...its supposed to an all time draft and 60% of the lineup is guys are are not even at the halfway point of their careers...Simmons is only like 3yrs in...i love simmons...but we have no idea how his career ends up...same with Giannis/AD...yes they are heading the way of top 30 players all time basically...but they would have to have another big chunk of really productive years that everyone is already counting on here...

i just cant get over that part honestly...sure it was smart cuz the rockets clearly most appeal to BO over any other team for this same reason...most on here can easily relate with good sales or big hits of those 3 guys...

i think the bench is really nothing to write home about...i think hawks bench is much better/complimentary and the team as a whole makes more sense....but that part has been debated in every round for HOU...that they are too big and would not work....doesnt really matter on here tho...."OMG Giannis/AD/Ben---unreal!"

still think Hawks team just makes more sense and is much better as an actual team

[rustywest]

.... nah

[PKIPP]

I'm really not sure how rockets team even made it outta round round 1 of playoff voting but yeah.. In real life this would be a 4 game sweep for the Hawks.

[atoaz12]

.... nah

I see at least one username with 5 posts total and another that has like 200 and zero in the basketball section voting for Houston haha
Know that was your frustration :D

[bdoody42]

Bump.

[Archangel1775]

To the top

[Archangel1775]

Let's get this, how many points is LeBron scoring against that Houston Defense? Who else is scoring against them? You're looking at -80 points from the Hawks!

[hairyangryfella]

I'm really not sure how rockets team even made it outta round round 1 of playoff voting but yeah.. In real life this would be a 4 game sweep for the Hawks.

The team I felt were the best in the competition didn't even make the playoffs...

[Archangel1775]

Someone mentioned Giannis and Big Ben were scrawny......
https://i.imgur.com/fpzCnL4m.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WUmCbgul.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/id0aBmwm.jpg

[bdoody42]

The team I felt were the best in the competition didn't even make the playoffs...

Ditto. Came down to a popularity contest among active players.

[drakehendrix34]

I don't really love either team, but Houston needs to put Sprewell in for Mutombo. That sounds stupid on an all time team, but all of a sudden they have more spacing and this forces Horford and Gasol to guard Giannis and AD. Those are two of the slowest interior defenders guarding two of the best athletes ever. I love Lillard, but he needs a lot of shots to do damage. Spre was all-D so he can chase him and then you've got a lot of size behind him. Then you put Giannis or Ben on LeBron to try and slow him, while the other guards Horford, because we've been told he's only there to space the floor.

I have voted against the rockets every round, but whoever said Gobert and Jimmy were better defenders hasn't seen that every analyst is choosing AD, Giannis, or Ben for DPOY. They're special. I just don't know if they can score.

[atoaz12]

Let's get this, how many points is LeBron scoring against that Houston Defense? Who else is scoring against them? You're looking at -80 points from the Hawks!

There are scorers up and down the Hawks’ roster
They’ll put the ball in the basket

[ballhawkdawk]

Ditto. Came down to a popularity contest among active players.

Waaaah nobody voted for the team I like waaah. Lots of that in these threads. I don’t see anyone considering that maybe.. just maybe.. the logic for who someone likes best of these teams just doesn’t hold up. If this was a popularity contest then the team with Jordan should’ve won every round.

I like Houston. If you don’t, that’s fine. I fully understand the arguments against them and for other teams. I’m not dismissing anyone else’s argument... except for the ones that don’t hold up like Dame dropping 30+ on Simmons twice.. because that’s just not true.

[ballhawkdawk]

I have voted against the rockets every round, but whoever said Gobert and Jimmy were better defenders hasn't seen that every analyst is choosing AD, Giannis, or Ben for DPOY. They're special. I just don't know if they can score.
Gobert is a force on the defensive end, but his responsibilities are primarily limited to paint protection. The other three can defend all five positions and defend all over the floor. They also have more offensive responsibility. Playing big on both ends of the floor takes a lot of energy. Butler is a good defender but not on the level of those three by my observation.

[bdoody42]

Waaaah nobody voted for the team I like waaah. Lots of that in these threads. I don’t see anyone considering that maybe.. just maybe.. the logic for who someone likes best of these teams just doesn’t hold up. If this was a popularity contest then the team with Jordan should’ve won every round.

I like Houston. If you don’t, that’s fine. I fully understand the arguments against them and for other teams. I’m not dismissing anyone else’s argument... except for the ones that don’t hold up like Dame dropping 30+ on Simmons twice.. because that’s just not true.

I stated an opinion based on the quality of rosters that have advanced. Teams with current players have advanced in situations where I feel like they should have had no chance. I imagine many who voted have not watched video or games of some of the past all time greats. Many never even watched prime Jordan I bet.

Why are you assuming I don’t like Houston? You can look and see I voted for them in the poll lol. I don’t think either of teams should be here but I voted for who I think would win.

[ballhawkdawk]

I stated an opinion based on the quality of rosters that have advanced. Teams with current players have advanced in situations where I feel like they should have had no chance. I imagine many who voted have not watched video or games of some of the past all time greats. Many never even watched prime Jordan I bet.

Why are you assuming I don’t like Houston? You can look and see I voted for them in the poll lol. I don’t think either of teams should be here but I voted for who I think would win.

My pre-80s basketball knowledge is limited, but I personally downgrade teams heavy on older stars for a number of reasons:

- Athletes are better now. Whether it’s nutrition, training, recovery, genetics, whatever... they’re better. It’s irrefutable. All strength and track and field records in Olympics are held by modern athletes.

- Global participatory rate in the NBA is way up. So many stars are from all over the world. It’s not limited to Americans anymore. The talent pool of players is much bigger, so the level of play is higher.

- Modern players have built on what past players have done. Sports evolve. Players learn what works and doesn’t work. It’s an unfair advantage to modern players, but this is about who wins a game or a series, not who had a greater career.

I made an effort to watch more pre 80s highlights because of this tournament, and there were some awesome pioneers in the sport, but I don’t think they hold up today. I don’t see Bob Cousy doing a damn thing in the modern game, and there’s no way to accurately adjust for modern training and whatnot to grade these older guys on a curve.

[bdoody42]

My pre-80s basketball knowledge is limited, but I personally downgrade teams heavy on older stars for a number of reasons:

- Athletes are better now. Whether it’s nutrition, training, recovery, genetics, whatever... they’re better. It’s irrefutable. All strength and track and field records in Olympics are held by modern athletes.

- Global participatory rate in the NBA is way up. So many stars are from all over the world. It’s not limited to Americans anymore. The talent pool of players is much bigger, so the level of play is higher.

- Modern players have built on what past players have done. Sports evolve. Players learn what works and doesn’t work. It’s an unfair advantage to modern players, but this is about who wins a game or a series, not who had a greater career.

I made an effort to watch more pre 80s highlights because of this tournament, and there were some awesome pioneers in the sport, but I don’t think they hold up today. I don’t see Bob Cousy doing a damn thing in the modern game, and there’s no way to accurately adjust for modern training and whatnot to grade these older guys on a curve.

Everyone is welcome to their opinion for sure and I see some validity in some of the points you made. The game has definitely evolved. One thing that is not clear is what rules we are playing by. I think that could make a big difference in reference who advances. There are some older players who I think could definitely succeed in today’s game while others like Cousy would struggle. It’s a case by case basis.

[hairyangryfella]

Waaaah nobody voted for the team I like waaah. Lots of that in these threads. I don’t see anyone considering that maybe.. just maybe.. the logic for who someone likes best of these teams just doesn’t hold up. If this was a popularity contest then the team with Jordan should’ve won every round.

I like Houston. If you don’t, that’s fine. I fully understand the arguments against them and for other teams. I’m not dismissing anyone else’s argument... except for the ones that don’t hold up like Dame dropping 30+ on Simmons twice.. because that’s just not true.

I'm pretty sure I voted for Houston most, if not every round, so not sure why you're acting like that regarding our similarly shared thought.

Btw "my logic is undeniable"...

[Archangel1775]

I don't really love either team, but Houston needs to put Sprewell in for Mutombo. That sounds stupid on an all time team, but all of a sudden they have more spacing and this forces Horford and Gasol to guard Giannis and AD. Those are two of the slowest interior defenders guarding two of the best athletes ever.

I agree with this, floor spacing is important and the team would definitely adjust. The Stretch 4 bigs in Serge and Lauri would be a big problem. Outside of LeBron, scoring is going to be tough. To also tell me the Hawks are going to outrebound the Rockets is just nuts.

[thejazzcollector]

Last day for votes!

[rustywest]

Congrats on taking it all out OP. Appreciate the time you put in and it was enjoyable for the most part during these wretched times! Also, thanks to all the other members that battled it out.

Now that its over I can leave this here...

Archangel1775 ruined the integrity of the Draft by soliciting votes via PM. I know for sure he did this against the Warriors in the Semi-Finals and the Trail Blazers in the Conference Finals. Both teams earned 50ish votes and narrowly lost. Rockets secured just 28 votes!? in the Finals after I challenged the GM to post in public if he did or did not solicit votes via PM - nothing. A surprise that votes failed to pour in for Houston during the Final round? Nah.

If I'm still around when another draft busts out, I will be sure to mention a rule that you cannot solicit votes via PM.

[ballhawkdawk]

Well done to the member who drafted the Hawks squad. The people have spoken. This was fun to follow even though I didn’t actually participate.

[atoaz12]

Well done to the member who drafted the Hawks squad. The people have spoken. This was fun to follow even though I didn’t actually participate.

Appreciate it!

[FGLBinger]

Portland was easily the winner

[PKIPP]

Portland was easily the winner

That was my choice as well