I Hate Graded Cards - Raw Only!

[bettersportsiq]

I personally don't have any graded cards in my PC and refuse to buy them but with the price explosion it seems everyone and their mother wants to get cards graded. I guess it's all about the flip and the $$$.

Call me old school but that's not why I collect.

Does anyone who buys graded cards do so without looking at it as an "investment?" Of course there are some exceptions (a centered Jordan RC perhaps) but I just don't get the allure.

Anyone else with me?!

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[Inferno]

Probably all of my core PC cards are graded now. None of them are intended to be flipped or sold but I'd be kidding myself if the extra value wasn't very important because if I'm ever forced to sell for some reason, or if something happens to me and my cards go to my family, the value will be much higher than raw. Never a bad idea to protect your investment even if it's not only about making money. I also have some important often counterfeited vintage cards and getting that stuff authenticated matters.

I never used to be a grading fan either but as my collection got more serious and the value started to climb I started to appreciate having my best cards preserved in slabs for better protection. The slabs become part of the card and I feel better about having them sealed up in a sort of time capsule rather than sliding around in a 10 cent toploader or even a One-Touch that could pop open

[chris_ac]

I hear ya OP. I've been avoiding slabs this year. Don't mind graded cards in general but don't want to send in cracked slabs or transport good cards for grading in a pandemic.

Also I agree they're is a general obsession going on in buyers to demand it be gem or your card is worthless. Problem with that train of thought is the countless evidence of altering plus no 2 people can agree on what gem should be. When people are scrutinizing already graded gems and adding their opinion that it's not good enough, you lost me then. Your pursuit in this hobby is lost to put it politely imho.

[RoddyDaz]

Grading is a croc!
Paying someone to give an opinion on a card of yours? Why?
To top it off if you are unhappy with the grade most will just remove from the slab and resubmit hoping the grader is having a more "generous grading" day!
It makes zero sense, however the buyers are mostly to blame. If they stop buying slabbed cards at a premium then the obsession with grades will quickly dwindle.
Totally agree OP

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[hauntedcomputer]

I started collecting graded cards because almost all my purchases are online and it's impossible to tell the condition of a raw card from a photograph, often sealed inside a sleeve and toploader. My collection is pretty narrow now so it's not a big reach to buy graded cards, but I am still picky about the condition because of crappy grading and general stench around the grading game. Every PSA 7 for sale is hyped as "Should of been a 9! Crossover! $$$." No thanks, bub.

Of course, every raw card is hyped as "A Surefire PSA 10!" Cool, then why didn't you send it in yourself?

[Vinny1984]

I do not buy graded but my PC cards must be graded. I buy raw and will grade myself. And I also cherry pick what I buy for flipping purposes to fund my PC. There is just too much money to be made in grading to completely ignore it.

But yeah, I still don’t understand why people are paying this premium for the case. I get wanting a mint version and to pay a little bit of a premium but 5x-6x? It’s crazy.

[sethc1020]

I want everything in my PC to be graded. Its my pc and I plan to hold for a long time so I want perfect copies that will be protected for the long haul. The added value is a plus as well because over time graded cards will appreciate much more than raw.

[rustywest]

I send my cards away to some unqualified stranger so we can get in some extra handling to soften up the corners. Then I'd like to gamble on that grader's mood/competence for them to assign my card a number they see fit. Then would you please encase my card in a card penitentiary because I am unable for the life of me to protect my cards without 3PG intervention? I'm completely incompetent :rolleyes:

Sometimes when I decide to be extra thrifty I send my cards away for months and months on end and use the most budget postage and grading options. Anxiety doesn't effect me :flex:

Often I unload the burden onto submission specialists. I hear they Gem more often then a regular peasant like myself. No idea why though ;)

Grading is for resale value and I have a really hard time believing people who spin it any other way. I'm not saying people don't exist who enjoy their PC cards in slabs but they are in the minority.

I'm with you OP, I enjoy my cards in raw form too. To me its feels pure, I love sifting through folders of cards. 98% of my collection is pack pulled so I feel tremendous about knowing my cards are unmolested by trimmers or fondled by the borderline crims? who work at 3PG's.

We are in the minority these days because, well, money. I'd guess 75% + of the 'new money' aren't investing in the love of cards.

[Frankp2311]

I personally don't have any graded cards in my PC and refuse to buy them but with the price explosion it seems everyone and their mother wants to get cards graded. I guess it's all about the flip and the $$$.

Call me old school but that's not why I collect.

Does anyone who buys graded cards do so without looking at it as an "investment?" Of course there are some exceptions (a centered Jordan RC perhaps) but I just don't get the allure.

Anyone else with me?!

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That is correct.

[hockeyguyrich]

Prices on psa 10 graded cards is going to get worse since they actually started looking at the cards

[watashiwa05]

I have a few graded cards in my PC. Usually it’s when the raw and graded cards are close enough in value, like a psa 10 Westbrook revolution liftoff impact was $8 instead of $5. Or when I can get a low grade, I got some 8s and 8.5s on the cheap.


I don’t hate graded cards. It’s just not worth it (to me) to buy at a premium or spend the money to get my cards graded.

[jnmcards]

For me, it's more about the protection and peace of mind that the slabs provide. The grades themselves are ancillary (but nice).

[asujbl]

All about those investments...

https://photos.smugmug.com/PSA-10-Basketball/i-bdTFVhJ/0/c9ef62ac/L/IMG_0992-L.jpg (https://ohiosundevils.smugmug.com/PSA-10-Basketball/i-bdTFVhJ/A)

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

I don’t flip or sell. I almost only graded cards because I just love MN+ quality. I hate buying a card raw, and seeing it off center, or with a ding in the corner (clam down, I don’t return them), so buying a PSA 10 gives me a little assurance over that. Now obviously, you need to examine the card and not just blindly buy off of grade, but still. I know these companies have all had their issues with dealing with card doctors, and conflicts of interest, but it doesn’t mean every grade is bogus. Again, there’s just something beautiful about a PSA 10 card that’s hard to describe unless you are a conviction freak like me. (I also like my comics in CGC 9.8 conduction.)

[Willikn]

The hate puzzles me. If you don't like graded you are the benefactor of graded driving down the cost of raw for your PC.

If you are mad because you want to sell your raw cards for the price of graded, then just grade the ones you want to sell.

If you want your PC cards to be perfect but don't want to pay the cost for perfection, that's akin to wanting your cake and eating it too. If you've never owned something, but hate it anyway, I feel maybe your hate is misguided.

Say you are after 1987 Fleer HOFers. For most cards in that set, a mint 9 is not going to be too pricey. The quality (on average) is light years better. In that set eights are going to be far better than raw on average.

If you want to sell your raw cards but don't want admit what is wrong with them because you aren't a "professional grader", then IMO you are the type of seller that has created the demand for graded.

[Haigo]

A lot of great responses, I have both graded and ungraded cards in my PC. I also am a hybrid but collect more than I flip however to keep my obsession going I have to sell at times. That being said I refuse to sell mid to high end raw cards, so many scams out there and you're almost asking for trouble, heck sometimes even selling graded cards can be the same way but you have some protection. What I may feel is mint may not be what the buyer thinks at least getting it graded takes that out of the equation. Anyway my two cents worth.

[pokemaniac]

The hate puzzles me. If you don't like graded you are the benefactor of graded driving down the cost of raw for your PC.

If you are mad because you want to sell your raw cards for the price of graded, then just grade the ones you want to sell.

If you want your PC cards to be perfect but don't want to pay the cost for perfection, that's akin to wanting your cake and eating it too. If you've never owned something, but hate it anyway, I feel maybe your hate is misguided.

Say you are after 1987 Fleer HOFers. For most cards in that set, a mint 9 is not going to be too pricey. The quality (on average) is light years better. In that set eights are going to be far better than raw on average.

If you want to sell your raw cards but don't want admit what is wrong with them because you aren't a "professional grader", then IMO you are the type of seller that has created the demand for graded.

When does this happen, ever? If anything, graded has driven prices up because every idiot thinks his card is a 9 or 10 when it's raw.

Grading by humans is inherently flawed and too subjective.

[Willikn]

When does this happen, ever? If anything, graded has driven prices up because every idiot thinks his card is a 9 or 10 when it's raw.


A PSA 8 Topps Durant Rookie is hitting $80 at auction. I just sold a legit Nm/Mt copy (listed as such) via auction for $18.

If we are talking about idiots who think their cards are more valuable than they are, that's a different topic. If you are buying raw, and the sellers are providing legit grades (not selling a NM/MT card and claiming it is flawless), savings abound.

[pokemaniac]

A PSA 8 Topps Durant Rookie is hitting $80 at auction. I just sold a legit Nm/Mt copy (listed as such) via auction for $18.

If we are talking about idiots who think their cards are more valuable than they are, that's a different topic. If you are buying raw, and the sellers are providing legit grades (not selling a NM/MT card and claiming it is flawless), savings abound.

Fair. Perhaps my experience has been different dealing with several types of trading cards.

[Willikn]

Fair. Perhaps my experience has been different dealing with several types of trading cards.

..and I don't deal with much of today's stuff so I'm no expert. I do know that a PSA 9 Prizm Morant/Zion sells for more than raw.

IMO, those who hate the graded game, but have never played, they need to realize the thrill of submitting 15 cards, expecting 10 Gems, but instead get three. Only then to realize that yeah, there was a tiny bubble spot on the back that you missed on a bunch.

When that happens, you begin to appreciate the price for 10s. Doesn't mean you have to buy them.

[chris_ac]

A PSA 8 Topps Durant Rookie is hitting $80 at auction. I just sold a legit Nm/Mt copy (listed as such) via auction for $18.

If we are talking about idiots who think their cards are more valuable than they are, that's a different topic. If you are buying raw, and the sellers are providing legit grades (not selling a NM/MT card and claiming it is flawless), savings abound.

No on both counts imho. It's not a separate topic when the grading obsession feeds into the perceived value people enforce when buying or selling like pretending your raw card is almost a guaranteed gem etc. On the 2nd point, the number of sellers providing legit assessments of raw cards to sell is down to single digits among thousands. The current prices creates greed which creates disingenuous sellers and the buyers who have to know with 99.9% accuracy that a raw card will grade true gem. I've been called a purist for my card thoughts and will sound pessimistic. So choose your own path of course but I see the issues abound and I still own graded cards as well.

[hxcmilkshake]

All about those investments...



https://photos.smugmug.com/PSA-10-Basketball/i-bdTFVhJ/0/c9ef62ac/L/IMG_0992-L.jpg (https://ohiosundevils.smugmug.com/PSA-10-Basketball/i-bdTFVhJ/A)Wasn't that like a SP or something?? That card brings me back. Remember selling a bunch of those for $4 each. High rollin'

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[BeastMode27]

Do like- cards in collection that are actual 10 quality and graded as such
Don’t like- the 40-50% of cards out there that shouldn’t be 10’s, as well as the other percentage of altered 10’s.

Feel much better about cards graded by self. Seems every time I buy a 10 it’s “wow that shouldn’t be a 10”.

[Willikn]

No on both counts imho. It's not a separate topic when the grading obsession feeds into the perceived value people enforce when buying or selling like pretending your raw card is almost a guaranteed gem etc.

I don't understand. Why pay someone a premium because they think their item is worth more than it is?

On the 2nd point, the number of sellers providing legit assessments of raw cards to sell is down to single digits among thousands.

I don't see this being counter to my point. Buying from idiots and liars isn't a good plan. IMO what happens is buyers think they are getting a steal because the seller is an idiot. In reality, the seller is playing dumb to prompt that response. Why else do so many sellers declare the following, "Buy my cards because I am not a professional grader so I know nothing." Meanwhile that same seller has a bunch of graded items for sale.

More to your point, there are sellers I frequent because they sell raw cards with legit grades. Cavalier cards added to my list recently. Greg Morris should be on your list for sure.

Disclaimer: If you are selling a 1992 base (bass) Ultra Michael Jordan raw, yeah who cares. The photo is plenty. If you are selling a Luka Prizm Rookie and refuse to disclose any flaws, the idiot is the one who buys it thinking it is a gem.

[Jdan67]

I hear both sides of this argument:

However, I will absolutely say that there is great money to be made in grading. I do this to fund my PC cards, many of which are not graded.

Also, there is something to be said for a very condition sensitive card that has a 9.5 or psa 10 slab (ie immac acetate RPA or NT RPA). Same for vintage-Adds to rarity/scarcity. I also like the protection value it provides.

Now for the thousands of base Prizm/silvers/modern day cards that are around, I couldn't agree more- grading in that case just pisses me off. That's a pure money flip.

[Blanketcards]

I have actually moved to all graded cards. I have been submitting everything myself so I can track and monitor. Paying the extra cost for speed since my feeling is if it is worth grading an extra $20 should not matter. I have then been selling off anything that I feel won't grade well unless it is something that is super hard to replace. I like the fact that if you are selling or trading you know what you are getting. I also like the fact they are all slabbed and safe.

[asujbl]

Wasn't that like a SP or something?? That card brings me back. Remember selling a bunch of those for $4 each. High rollin'

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It was in Series 2 only (along with Doug Christie) since he signed his contract late.

Not sure if it was an SP or not.

[RyanMW]

Probably all of my core PC cards are graded now. None of them are intended to be flipped or sold but I'd be kidding myself if the extra value wasn't very important because if I'm ever forced to sell for some reason, or if something happens to me and my cards go to my family, the value will be much higher than raw. Never a bad idea to protect your investment even if it's not only about making money. I also have some important often counterfeited vintage cards and getting that stuff authenticated matters.

I never used to be a grading fan either but as my collection got more serious and the value started to climb I started to appreciate having my best cards preserved in slabs for better protection. The slabs become part of the card and I feel better about having them sealed up in a sort of time capsule rather than sliding around in a 10 cent toploader or even a One-Touch that could pop open

This is exactly how I feel. Couldn't have said it better myself. I also like the eye appeal of the slabs -- both BGS and PSA, actually. It's also fool proof when buying. In hobbies like this there's always a little scumbaggery to be expected. I'm terrified of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on a raw card and being forced to deign the flaws for myself via a single low-quality scan. It's much, much safer to know the card has been authenticated in a specific grade.

[patchgenie]

i like raw cards. been dumping graded

[RyanMW]

I do not buy graded but my PC cards must be graded. I buy raw and will grade myself. And I also cherry pick what I buy for flipping purposes to fund my PC. There is just too much money to be made in grading to completely ignore it.

But yeah, I still don’t understand why people are paying this premium for the case. I get wanting a mint version and to pay a little bit of a premium but 5x-6x? It’s crazy.

It's outrageous. I have a Trae Young Prizm Silver that I pulled from a single pack which I bought when I first got back into collecting a year and a half ago. It has a soft edge and probably won't gem. According to Ebay, it's presently worth $500 or a little less. Were it a 10, it would be worth 3.5x that. It's so outrageous.

[employee8]

Baby I like it raw, only graded I own are ones that came that way but typically will be traded away. I’ve been known to buy “inferior graded” for my PC and crack them...

[Willikn]

It's outrageous. I have a Trae Young Prizm Silver that I pulled from a single pack which I bought when I first got back into collecting a year and a half ago. It has a soft edge and probably won't gem. According to Ebay, it's presently worth $500 or a little less. Were it a 10, it would be worth 3.5x that. It's so outrageous.

Two thoughts and neither meant to insult.

1. It seems that those who hate the game do so because they want their raw cards to sell for "10" prices. To me though, this is neither unfair nor a reason for hate. You don't have to pay "10" prices to buy them nor must you buy 10s in order for you to profit from their price increases.

2. Is it a rough edge or a damaged edge? Buy that I mean, if it is a rough cut with extra "fuzz", but the edge itself is straight, you are good. The usual issue with that card causing it to drop from gem status would be surface and/or centering. Edges and corners generally come out of the pack gem worthy (albeit with a little extra "fuzz" here and there).

[Willikn]

I’ve been known to buy “inferior graded” for my PC and crack them...

A very underrated practice.

[chris_ac]

I don't understand. Why pay someone a premium because they think their item is worth more than it is?

Because it depends on much demand is around for said card. You may want it badly enough for the premium or someone will come up right behind you and pay it. Definitely been there.

I don't see this being counter to my point. Buying from idiots and liars isn't a good plan. IMO what happens is buyers think they are getting a steal because the seller is an idiot. In reality, the seller is playing dumb to prompt that response. Why else do so many sellers declare the following, "Buy my cards because I am not a professional grader so I know nothing." Meanwhile that same seller has a bunch of graded items for sale.

More to your point, there are sellers I frequent because they sell raw cards with legit grades. Cavalier cards added to my list recently. Greg Morris should be on your list for sure.

Disclaimer: If you are selling a 1992 base (bass) Ultra Michael Jordan raw, yeah who cares. The photo is plenty. If you are selling a Luka Prizm Rookie and refuse to disclose any flaws, the idiot is the one who buys it thinking it is a gem.

I think the pathological liar that exist in many sellers is quite obvious when most raw cards have a flaw that is never described. I've learned to accept some flaws instead of the excessive chase for a gem which could very likely be altered anyways. If I buy a raw card with a serious un-noted flaw, I either at this point just issue a negative depending how bad it is and of course toss it in the trash to avoid re-selling hassles that are bound to happen with the next potential owner. I'm not in this hobby for money (hence, a purist) so tossing a major flawed card in the trash does not bother me at all. And we know based on the current market no one else is going to give me a money amount worth a doo for it with the described flaw.

[Willikn]

I'm not in this hobby for money (hence, a purist) so tossing a major flawed card in the trash does not bother me at all. And we know based on the current market no one else is going to give me a money amount worth a doo for it with the described flaw.

Give them to kids or throw them in as bonuses with other purchases.

I have a stack of Trae Optic RCs (base/shock) bought from COMC that are all just covered in factory surface boogers. Part of the image, not actual damage. They are locked and loaded as freebees if/when I sell well graded Trae's.

[PSA2Pac]

Started buying exclusively raw.

Now prefer to buy graded but will still buy raw if I can get good pics and it looks decent.

Hate buying raw and finding obvious flaws that werent disclosed. For as much as somebody might not like the grading game, I dont like feeling taken advantage of from somebody off-loading all of the raws they didnt think looked good enough to send in for grading.

I dont collect to just collect. I love the game but putting in as much money as I do is equally about amassing something of value that I can pass onto my kids, as it is the chase.

[wilsunshines]

I like having my cards protected by the graded cases. I like the way the graded cases fit together for storage. I like the authentication that grading provides, which becomes more important as you get further and further away from release, especially on rarer cards. There are plenty of reasons for true collectors to like graded cards that have nothing to do with money or resale.

[Scottish Punk]

Try buying anything 80's and older raw. I try to do it as often as I can, but it 8s filled with land mines. When you do find a good nm copy, it is likely cost as much as a graded 7. Why not just buy the 7 and reduce risk? The other big thing is ease of selling/trading.

[lyyca]

What's wrong with flipping and grading? Gotta cash on the stash to fund my own collection too. Not everyone has extra money sitting around. This hobby is like a smoking habit and the addiction is real. I'm in it for the fun just like any other bad habit. I was old school too and then Zion happened....

[buckunteer]

Probably all of my core PC cards are graded now. None of them are intended to be flipped or sold but I'd be kidding myself if the extra value wasn't very important because if I'm ever forced to sell for some reason, or if something happens to me and my cards go to my family, the value will be much higher than raw. Never a bad idea to protect your investment even if it's not only about making money. I also have some important often counterfeited vintage cards and getting that stuff authenticated matters.

I never used to be a grading fan either but as my collection got more serious and the value started to climb I started to appreciate having my best cards preserved in slabs for better protection. The slabs become part of the card and I feel better about having them sealed up in a sort of time capsule rather than sliding around in a 10 cent toploader or even a One-Touch that could pop open


This is pretty much me to a T. I just want them graded so I know they're safe and authentic. I have lots of PC cards (particularly low-end Richmonds) that won't increase in value because of it, or cards that graded below a 9 that won't fetch a premium either but that's ok to me anyway. I don't really display them either, just keep them in boxes/cases. To each their own :)!

[asujbl]

I like having my cards protected by the graded cases. I like the way the graded cases fit together for storage. I like the authentication that grading provides, which becomes more important as you get further and further away from release, especially on rarer cards. There are plenty of reasons for true collectors to like graded cards that have nothing to do with money or resale.

Very much this...


I like having my cards slabbed for protection... PSA is thick enough since I don't manhandle them.
I like having the PSA slabs be stackable, I also use www.cardcasepro.com, which makes storing my PC super easy
I am OCD, especially with my PC, so I enjoy that my entire collection is the same thing (I only PC PSA 10 cards)
I like that cards that aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but are players on my favorite team, have some more appeal if they are slabbed a 10. I have no interest in owning a Jimmy Jackson UD rookie as posted above if it was raw. I don't have room to store a billion 99 cent cards... I do want a PSA 10 copy however.
I like the PSA registry even if others don't because they think it inflates the value.
I like the chase of having only PSA 10 cards. Will I ever own a Jordan at $50,000? I have no idea... but I hope to... as much as I hope to find my next 99 center of an Ohio State or Cleveland player.
I like that it keeps me focused on collecting what I want. I don't get as scattered trying to collect everything like I used to (see the OCD of my collection)
I like that it makes trading and selling much easier because 99.9% of the time you know what you are getting. I'm buying a 10 and selling/trading a 10. If you want to vary what you think a 10 is? That's fine... but it's still a slabbed item
I like that it makes giving them to my kids in 30 years easier for the exact same reason. They know what they have and they know how to sell them should they want to.


I have an extensive PSA 10 collection. I have also never once submitted a card myself.

The fact that it's gone up 10X in the last few years? Well I got lucky and was ahead of the curve.

But you can absolutely collect graded, and only collect graded, without being a "flipper"... just like you can buy retail without being one of those goobers that posts pictures of your "find" at Target on Facebook.

[psd2k10]

This topic is the reason why sellers like me are so important. I like opening packs. 99% of my collection is pack pulled. I dont grade (but I should because there is ton's of money to be made- I get that). Everything I sell is pack pulled. I keep the stuff I want in my PC and I sell the rest. Everything I sell is pack pulled so do the math on how many potential psa 10's I sell raw.

[psd2k10]

Very much this...


I like having my cards slabbed for protection... PSA is thick enough since I don't manhandle them.
I like having the PSA slabs be stackable, I also use www.cardcasepro.com, which makes storing my PC super easy
I am OCD, especially with my PC, so I enjoy that my entire collection is the same thing (I only PC PSA 10 cards)
I like that cards that aren't worth the paper they are printed on, but are players on my favorite team, have some more appeal if they are slabbed a 10. I have no interest in owning a Jimmy Jackson UD rookie as posted above if it was raw. I don't have room to store a billion 99 cent cards... I do want a PSA 10 copy however.
I like the PSA registry even if others don't because they think it inflates the value.
I like the chase of having only PSA 10 cards. Will I ever own a Jordan at $50,000? I have no idea... but I hope to... as much as I hope to find my next 99 center of an Ohio State or Cleveland player.
I like that it keeps me focused on collecting what I want. I don't get as scattered trying to collect everything like I used to (see the OCD of my collection)
I like that it makes trading and selling much easier because 99.9% of the time you know what you are getting. I'm buying a 10 and selling/trading a 10. If you want to vary what you think a 10 is? That's fine... but it's still a slabbed item
I like that it makes giving them to my kids in 30 years easier for the exact same reason. They know what they have and they know how to sell them should they want to.


I have an extensive PSA 10 collection. I have also never once submitted a card myself.

The fact that it's gone up 10X in the last few years? Well I got lucky and was ahead of the curve.

But you can absolutely collect graded, and only collect graded, without being a "flipper"... just like you can buy retail without being one of those goobers that posts pictures of your "find" at Target on Facebook.

Have you taken the time to look at how many doctored psa 10's you might have sitting in your collection?

[asujbl]

Have you taken the time to look at how many doctored psa 10's you might have sitting in your collection?

Nope. I have not.

[RogerGodahell]

There's a lot of people who agree with you and nothing wrong with collecting raw cards. But think there's a place for both.

I don't have any LCS anywhere near where i live. If i can't hold the card and physically inspect it then im a little weary about buying raw cards over the internet. Grading companies certainly aren't perfect and im well aware of that. But usually they're right when it comes to the assigned grade. You can't just buy the grade as anyone will tell you. You need to use your own eyes and compare. But at least buying graded gives me a better sense on the surface condition and any hidden flaws.

[forgiven1]

I'm also not into graded cards myself. I try to avoid buying them if possible. I've freed several cards from their BGS 9 and PSA 9 cages.. I like looking at my cards raw and not through plastic cases. Especially my patch cards.. I will keep the card slabbed though if it's already graded a 9.5 or PSA 10 when I buy it.

[forgiven1]

I'm also not into graded cards myself. I try to avoid buying them if possible. I've freed several cards from their BGS 9 and PSA 9 cages.. I like looking at my cards raw and not through plastic cases. Especially my patch cards.. I will keep the card slabbed though if it's already graded a 9.5 or PSA 10 when I buy it.

P.S. I don't flip so I'm not worried about losing value if the cards not graded. I pay for the card and not the grade :)!

[CoolG]

30 years buying-selling in hobby
never a graded card:)!

[kcroyalsfan8515]

I have both. I think the thought of grading when I use my common sense is goofy. Someone else's opinion who if they saw the same card 3 different times... Might give it 3 different grades. I don't like the thought of sending cards in for months at a time to companies that can't catch trimming, and seem to give better grades to certain customers. I think the premium people pay for 10's vs 9's is insane when if I cover the grade... Alot of the times u can't tell the difference...yet folks pay 5 and 6 times what a 9 is... I buy good looking 9's...good looking 8's that look like 9's to me, and good looking raw cards. I have sold almost all of my 10's to fund more cards. Only reason I would grade is to sell to buy more cards... O ly reason. And to each their own. I like the cards... So I just try to do whatever I can do to make money to buy more. Sold a PSA 10 of a card for 220 dollars. Bought same card raw for 18 dollars so basically just sold the grade. Raw card I bought looked great... A 9 I would say.

[YouTheManNick]

I like graded for my vintage stuff. 50's and older. Some 60's and 70's.

Modern stuff I prefer raw now. I learned this lesson the hard way when I got two modern PC cards graded. They both came back 10's so that's cool. But I don't like the way they look as much.

I have no idea why, but I think vintage stuff looks good in slabs and modern stuff looks better raw.

I'm a collector who's not looking to flip so it's all about eye appeal for me.

Plus. When it comes to vintage, I like lower grade stuff because I feel like it's more representative of how people viewed / treated their cards back then. So it works out in my favor when I save hundreds buying a 4 or lower vs the higher grades.

[mindcycle]

.

Anyone else with me?!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I’m with you man! I mean, the grader boi club is pretty elite and all..

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50088890191_1499335c66_o.jpg

..but i’ll stick with raw doggin it for now. :)!

[Vinny407]

I've never purchased a graded card and I've never sent a card out for grading. It never used to appeal to me in the sense that I collect my PC for the love of it and I never thought about "added" value as a reason to like my PC any more than I already do. I've always appreciated graded cards though and completely understand why collectors choose to grade. It protects the card, can add a ton of value (nothing ever wrong with more $$$) and can certify authenticity. What's not to like? BUT, recently a fellow member on here sent me a BGS 9.5 Mo Bamba Rookie auto from Encased. It's the first graded card I've ever owned.......and I love it!! I simply love the presentation of it. I've slowly been putting together a list of PC cards I'd like to eventually send out to BGS.....some rare 90's stuff, an old Shaq refractor and a few others I think would look good in a slab. Maybe I'll like it so much that I end up sending as much as I can out, who knows? I was never in to it but have had a little change of heart. To each their own :)

[TBarn291]

I personally am not a fan of graded cards and wouldn't typically buy one for my collection. That being said, I just did my first sub. It wasn't for PC though. I had a bunch of stuff I wanted to sell (mostly prizm) and the price difference between raw and graded was just to enticing. Plus I didn't want to take the chance of a buyer wanting to return a card because their was something wrong that I didn't notice or it didn't grade gem and so they didn't want it. Like I said, I'm personally not a fan, but I don't see anything wrong with it for those who appreciate it.

[cking]

To all the people saying they like grading because it guarantees the card to be authentic.......Please do us all a favor and read this thread.

BGS and PSA have graded countless fake cards as authentic.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1343655

Also, what good is grading if you cannot trust the grade?

[superdan49]

I’m with you man! I mean, the grader boi club is pretty elite and all..

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50088890191_1499335c66_o.jpg

..but i’ll stick with raw doggin it for now. :)!

That looks painful for his elbow.

Also, I spy a ruler to his right so we know this photo is a fake.

[Arianny_Fan]

Same here, I buy graded only if it's the same price or lower than a raw card. I refuse to pay 10x or what ever a gem 10 will fetch.

[Arianny_Fan]

To all the people saying they like grading because it guarantees the card to be authentic.......Please do us all a favor and read this thread.

BGS and PSA have graded countless fake cards as authentic.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1343655

Also, what good is grading if you cannot trust the grade?

And to add they dont authenticated the patch as "authentic" on patch cards when many have been altered on big name players.

[heatdawg]

Grading sucks but so do taxes. Neither is going anywhere.

[Inferno]

That looks painful for his elbow.

Also, I spy a ruler to his right so we know this photo is a fake.

lol :cry:

[Inferno]

And to add they dont authenticated the patch as "authentic" on patch cards when many have been altered on big name players.

Are you saying they should authenticate the patches too? Unless it's the most obvious and incompetent fake in history can anybody possibly stake their reputation on whether a 1x1'' patch is real or not? If the material is the same as what would be on a real jersey it's practically impossible to tell the difference. Nobody is going to take on the liability of guaranteeing the authenticity of a patch piece that someone else stuck into a card whether it was at Panini or in some guys basement.

I don't even know how autograph authenticators can look at a marker squiggle on a photo or something and state with authority that it's real. They can say it looks like the real thing sure, but who's to say some artist who's good with a sharpie didn't practice that squiggle until it was virtually indistinguishable from a real one. Can they trace the ink in the sharpie to a movie stars sharpie? lol

[volblorx8634]

Plus one here for the anti-graders. Grading is dumb.

HOWEVER, I do strongly consider PSA/BGS 9 cards. Mint condition for the same price as raw? I'm down, even if I end up cracking it out of the slab after getting it in.

[Arianny_Fan]

I would think if you paid for any premium service, in this case grading a sports card. You are entitled to get ever aspect of the card authenticated. There are many jersey/patch cards that have been altered with nicer patches and than slabbed by PSA/BGS. Many cards have been documented by many members that follow these type of shadyness in the hobby. Ex: cards with xx/xx's on them are easy to track. There was a thread on this topic. Just gotta find the link.

Are you saying they should authenticate the patches too? Unless it's the most obvious and incompetent fake in history can anybody possibly stake their reputation on whether a 1x1'' patch is real or not? If the material is the same as what would be on a real jersey it's practically impossible to tell the difference. Nobody is going to take on the liability of guaranteeing the authenticity of a patch piece that someone else stuck into a card whether it was at Panini or in some guys basement.

I don't even know how autograph authenticators can look at a marker squiggle on a photo or something and state with authority that it's real. They can say it looks like the real thing sure, but who's to say some artist who's good with a sharpie didn't practice that squiggle until it was virtually indistinguishable from a real one. Can they trace the ink in the sharpie to a movie stars sharpie? lol

[Inferno]

It doesn't matter if you pay a million dollars to grade your card, nobody is going to take on the risk of guaranteeing that a tiny piece of fabric is real.

The reason so many fake patches do get caught my collectors is because the people who faked them were morons. They switched a patch out of a serial numbered card that was sold on eBay before so you could trace back images of the same card with a plain patch, or they botched it so bad the patch window is all mangled and clearly tampered with, or they used a jersey off the Walmart rack with completely different material that never would have been used in the NBA. Or they put in a patch from a blue jersey when every other patch for that player that year was from a white jersey.

We can't assume all of the patch fakers are this dumb. We also can't trace every single copy of every single card because not every one appears online or on eBay to be archived. Nothing is stopping a guy from buying a plain patch card in person at a show so there's no online paper trail, doing a bit of homework on the jersey material, and putting in a patch that looks exactly like all the other real ones in the print run. I don't think it takes a master criminal to realize this is possible.

And people expect graders to look at this little piece of fabric and say ''I guarantee that's real''? There is zero chance I would trust them to make that declaration. For every moron patch faker who gets caught there's probably another one out there who is actually not stupid and gets away with it.

I would think if you paid for any premium service, in this case grading a sports card. You are entitled to get ever aspect of the card authenticated. There are many jersey/patch cards that have been altered with nicer patches and than slabbed by PSA/BGS. Many cards have been documented by many members that follow these type of shadyness in the hobby. Ex: cards with xx/xx's on them are easy to track. There was a thread on this topic. Just gotta find the link.

[Willikn]

Plus one here for the anti-graders. Grading is dumb.

HOWEVER, I do strongly consider PSA/BGS 9 cards. Mint condition for the same price as raw? I'm down, even if I end up cracking it out of the slab after getting it in.

So, grading isn't dumb as long as you use it's existence to serve your own interests whatever they may be. How I feel as well.

[volblorx8634]

So, grading isn't dumb as long as you use it's existence to serve your own interests whatever they may be. How I feel as well.

Ha not sure I would put it like that, and I'm also not sure how much sarcasm is in your post. I definitely never really thought about that as serving my own interests, but I suppose that's a fair point.

[Willikn]

Ha not sure I would put it like that, and I'm also not sure how much sarcasm is in your post. I definitely never really thought about that as serving my own interests, but I suppose that's a fair point.

Did not mean it as a slight, although re-reading what I typed it reads that way.

More, you have it figured out. Hating the player or the game isn't the right frame of mind. Neither is following the herd and overpaying just because everyone else is. Buying 9s on the cheap and cracking is something I do as well, especially for older set building. Precisely what I've done for a lot of the 1987 Fleer in my set.

The only true "hate" would be either from folks that want "10" caliber sales for "8" caliber raw, or those who want "10" caliber cards for raw prices. In that case I get it. I want a "10" caliber Jordan RC. In 1992 I could have traded two 8s for that 10 and been labeled an idiot. The hobby has been this way for more than two decades though.

[volblorx8634]

Did not mean it as a slight, although re-reading what I typed it reads that way.

More, you have it figured out. Hating the player or the game isn't the right frame of mind. Neither is following the herd and overpaying just because everyone else is. Buying 9s on the cheap and cracking is something I do as well, especially for older set building. Precisely what I've done for a lot of the 1987 Fleer in my set.

The only true "hate" would be either from folks that want "10" caliber sales for "8" caliber raw, or those who want "10" caliber cards for raw prices. In that case I get it. I want a "10" caliber Jordan RC. In 1992 I could have traded two 8s for that 10 and been labeled an idiot. The hobby has been this way for more than two decades though.

Appreciate the clarification. Obviously, I agree with you completely.

I'm not sure the original intent of grading, which I would assume (hope?) was meant to verify authenticity, provide an objective statement of card condition (especially on vintage cards), and protect the card. Naturally, the rating of card conditions has resulted in higher values for those deemed to be in better condition. That has established the market as we see it with PSA 10s being worth up to what, up to 4-5x a PSA 9? That's 4-5x a MINT card. PSA 10s can be worth double a BGS 9.5...both gem mint cards! And that's not even getting into the stories of people cracking out 7s and 8s and resubmitting to get 9s and 10s....it just doesn't make sense.

I've mentioned before, but I once had someone tell me raw cards are worthless if they don't gem and that it should be the expectation that any raw card purchased comes back graded gem mint. Because sellers should be expected to give up hundreds of dollars in value by selling gem cards raw so buyers can grade and realize the extra value?