Is it unethical to crack a graded card to resell and not disclose?

[SlickRick]

.....

[shrevecity]

What condition did he state it was in, in the listing? If he said Near Mint condition then the listing sounds accurate. If he said gem mint then that would be bad.

[Spacemanspif]

if it was originally graded a 9, then he cracked and resubmit and got a 10, would you expect that disclosure? I'm sure this kind of thing happens all the time. Also depends how he advertised the card as, and what exactly the damage is. By *most accounts, an 8.5 is acceptable when buying raw.

[kevbojones]

Just list the condition as what it graded as in your new listing. (EX-MT, MINT, EX etc)

Can only cause problems otherwise

[PSA2Pac]

The entire enchilada casserole is unethical.

Dig in.

[KhalDrogo]

Besides fully discrediting himself by saying he got a psa 8.5, he admitted to basically being aware of the poor condition and cracking a slab to resell for more.
:confused:

[KhalDrogo]

8.5 is pretty good for a raw buy. I get crap that would be lucky to get an 8 all the time. Don't ever return because that's part of the game.

[SlickRick]

:confused:If he's telling the truth, I don't think it was even as high as an 8 in the first place.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[ninjacookies]

If you advertise as near mint or better (as all sellers of raw should), then fair game...they got what they paid for. Barring some extreme undisclosed damage, that's life.


People need to stop buying raw with the intentions of getting a certain numerical grade to flip. You want an arbitrary opinion set in stone? Pony up and buy the damn mint 9 or gem mint 10.

[SlickRick]

I guess that settles it. I personally think it's wrong to knowingly resell a previously slabbed card and not say anything but I'm definitely in the minority. I saw it as being along the lines of knowing a card came back as altered and cracking it to resell raw

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

[KevJo]

If you buy a raw card on Ebay, be glad if its mint or better. To expect a high grade is a crap shoot and you might as well be playing the lottery (which is a tax on the poor in itself).

Kevin

[n1nesports]

I'd say if you grade it and crack it open and sell it raw you don't have to say anything about that, they can judge based on the photos of the card whether they want to buy it or not. I have yet to even grade a card but that's my take on it. Just seems weird, uh this used to be graded.

[discodanman45]

Buying raw cards on ebay is fun for me, but I did get ripped off a few times. I only returned one card and it was so bad I had to return. He had a picture of the card and it looked good. However, he sent me another card from a vending box that looked like it got puked on and had paper loss on it. He didn't refund my shipping, but return shipping was on him. Blocked him for all future purchases.

I have been really fortunate to this point on ebay. I don't know if it is luck or I have a good eye for buying cards online. Or maybe a bit of both... I tend to avoid people that sell PSA cards. The reason for this is that they are selling that card for a reason. The reason was it wasn't good enough to grade. That is what probably happened here. However, I doubt it was a PSA 8.5, was probably a BGS 8.5 that he was going to put through PSA.

[KhalDrogo]

If he's telling the truth, I don't think it was even as high as an 8 in the first place.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
You haven't said what the condition issue is.

And you noticed he sold PSA 9+ and raw cards. Should have known better.

[Kobe101]

I guess that settles it. I personally think it's wrong to knowingly resell a previously slabbed card and not say anything but I'm definitely in the minority. I saw it as being along the lines of knowing a card came back as altered and cracking it to resell raw

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

You haven’t answered the question how was it advertised.

It is wrong to advertise as mint or gem mint if it was an 8 or 8.5 and cracked out.

But it’s also just as wrong if not worse to buy raw on eBay and if you think it won’t gem try to return it which it seems like you were doing.

[Stackfan]

If you buying raw, your getting raw. You can't expect/demand mint/gem mint. The Seller doesn't need to disclose the history of the card.

I once sold a Raw silver Jokic rookie for like 90$, the guy didn't like that it had a minor scratch on the card. I said, if you dont like it, just return it. So i gave him the refund. Fast Forward a year or two... i did end up grading it and it got a BGS 9.0; plus the value went up quite a bit. Long story short, don't expect to get gradable cards / gem mint when buying raw.

[cboog3105]

should it come with one of these if its been cracked op?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/9e/1e/599e1e13d82e7a76dc8ebf0b3193e126.jpg

[mc1]

You haven't said what the condition issue is.

And you noticed he sold PSA 9+ and raw cards. Should have known better.

This doesnt make sense.

I buy and sell graded and raw cards. I dont grade any myself. Doesnt mean I sell junk. Some of the raw cards Ive sold have probably being slabbed gem.

This is a handy little hustle. You could buy 5s, 6s, 7s and 8s and sell for more RAW!

[KhalDrogo]

This doesnt make sense.

I buy and sell graded and raw cards. I dont grade any myself. Doesnt mean I sell junk. Some of the raw cards Ive sold have probably being slabbed gem.

This is a handy little hustle. You could buy 5s, 6s, 7s and 8s and sell for more RAW!
So do I. But I almost never sell something raw that is worth grading. If I do, I do it here where my rep allows me to get above eBay. If I sell something raw on eBay, it's either low-end to the point that it's not worth the time/money to grade, or not in a condition that makes sense to grade. If it's the later, I always disclose the defects.

[ballhawkdawk]

I feel zero obligation to disclose the grading history of a card. If I buy it and crack it because I want it raw in my PC, when I go to sell it I sell it as is. Now if it grades a 6 or whatever for a bad corner and a scratch, I disclose those condition issues and take the best pics I can to show the issues, but I don’t say “previously graded a 6.”

[n1nesports]

should it come with one of these if its been cracked op?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/9e/1e/599e1e13d82e7a76dc8ebf0b3193e126.jpg

Wooooooooow, flashback from elementary, dude are you trying to get me feeling all nostalgic? :(

[shrevecity]

Buying raw cards on ebay is fun for me, but I did get ripped off a few times. I only returned one card and it was so bad I had to return. He had a picture of the card and it looked good. However, he sent me another card from a vending box that looked like it got puked on and had paper loss on it. He didn't refund my shipping, but return shipping was on him. Blocked him for all future purchases.

I have been really fortunate to this point on ebay. I don't know if it is luck or I have a good eye for buying cards online. Or maybe a bit of both... I tend to avoid people that sell PSA cards. The reason for this is that they are selling that card for a reason. The reason was it wasn't good enough to grade. That is what probably happened here. However, I doubt it was a PSA 8.5, was probably a BGS 8.5 that he was going to put through PSA.

YOu just blocked him from buying from you. Blocking him will not stop you from buying from him.

[shrevecity]

I guess that settles it. I personally think it's wrong to knowingly resell a previously slabbed card and not say anything but I'm definitely in the minority. I saw it as being along the lines of knowing a card came back as altered and cracking it to resell raw

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

What are you hiding? Why not answer the questions about how it was listed? That sounds more like you are being a grade chaser to me. You bought it hoping for a 10 and when you see it won't you want to return it.

[SlickRick]

.....

[Timo]

If you buy a raw card on Ebay, be glad if its mint or better. To expect a high grade is a crap shoot and you might as well be playing the lottery (which is a tax on the poor in itself).

Kevin


Yep, I recently bought 9 Zion Selects. I picked the ones that were most well centered with sharp corners. I couldn't tell much what the surface or edges were like, but rolled the dice anyway. Unfortunately, each one had serious surface issues. One, maybe two, has a shot to get PSA 9. I didn't and won't return them. The saying is true, if you want a GEM, buy a GEM.

[KevJo]

Yep, I recently bought 9 Zion Selects. I picked the ones that were most well centered with sharp corners. I couldn't tell much what the surface or edges were like, but rolled the dice anyway. Unfortunately, each one had serious surface issues. One, maybe two, has a shot to get PSA 9. I didn't and won't return them. The saying is true, if you want a GEM, buy a GEM.

Logic is scary in this hobby!

[MikeEsCards]

Yes, it's unethical not to disclose if something was cracked and the grade it previously got. However, if he said nrmt, he is covered in my book as that's what an 8.5 is. I assume 90% of cards I buy off eBay raw have already been run through the grading machine already and didn't pan out to the sellers liking. Should have said "I cracked out of case, it was an 8.5" in the listing. The annoying part is he likely did it to try to get a better return on resale so a bit unethical. On the other side, you thought you were going to get the better end of the deal by having it turn out better than what he already stated.

[SuperCoolBeas]

Yeah I think it's fine. Raw cards get raw card prices, afterall.

He took a shot (assuming he paid to get it graded) didn't get the grade he was hoping for. Decided to sell it raw. As long as no obvious damage was covered up, or lied about, it basically just "is what it is". IMO, at least.

Hindsight bring 20/20 (I'm guessing you noticed this afterwards) but if he's only selling 9's or better, and the card you want to buy from him is RAW...its prob not in 9 or better" condition. Still...that's hindsight though. Can't always tell.

On a related note - if I'm looking to buy a card to get graded, I'll even avoid listings where the card is in a CardSaver in the pic. Might be silly, but I just figure they were thinking about sending in to be graded (hence, the CardSaver) and for some reason, changed their mind...so I just look for another one.

It's hard out there...

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[Timo]

Logic is scary in this hobby!

Like you said, buying raw to grade is a crap shoot. Have done well with other raw Zions.

8.5 is pretty good for a raw buy. I get crap that would be lucky to get an 8 all the time. Don't ever return because that's part of the game.

Yep, it's part of the game. I mean, unless the seller does a switcharoo.

[Panthersfans]

IMO once it’s cracked, it’s no longer 8.5, so there’s no need to disclose that info. Now If you asked and he lied, then there’s an ethics problem.

[hairyangryfella]

In my opinion, if you have any ethics or morals when selling you will accurately describe the card, including whether it was previously graded (at what most people would call a low grade) and are selling it raw.
But that would almost certainly harm the selling price which is why very few people would...

[Jmsiak13]

I have a PSA 8 and a PSA 10 sitting in front of me and if you can't tell the difference between an 8 and what you hope is a 10 with no issues at all then you need glasses

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[RogerGodahell]

If you buy raw cards you're always taking a risk. He cracked it because he know's that a raw card sells for more than an 8.5 and about the same or sometimes even more than a 9. A chance you take buying raw and this is exactly the reason why 9's should be worth more than raw cards. You know what you're getting in a 9. The buyer is hoping for a 9 - 10 but that's not a guarantee. Something to keep in the back of your mind when buying raw.

[CB Nostalgia]

Post great, high resolution photos on your auctions. That’s all a buyer can ask for. Disclose any imperfections that are visible to the naked eye.

[sethc1020]

When buying raw I usually just assume the card isn't worth being graded or that it has already been graded at some point and cracked out. Unless it is a very new product. Not always the case but that's how I go in to it. But I deal more in higher end cards so that same philosophy may not hold up on lower end cards.

[japes3]

I hate these things, unethical? - I hope God has better things to judge us on, rather than our years of how we acted while collecting and selling cards.

Ethics don't come into this, it is a BUSINESS.

IF you buy something off of the internet without inspecting the pictures yourself fully, and don't know what you are getting exactly, then its only you're fault.

Too many charge backs because buyers allow themselves to be disappointed.

Does anyone just go and buy 4 sizes of pants without trying them on and then act disappointed they cant fit into the other 3 because they did no research themselves of the ones they actually need??

Like come on people, look at the pictures, heck even maybe ask for more pictures, a better scan or be pro active!!!! If the seller isnt helpful with these new pics, then move on, red flag for me when buying.

Do you really think someone is selling a gem mint card or near perfect card raw just for fun.

You even said it yourself, only selling psa 9's or better on his site, then why even think this one is the one he didn't grade?

COLLECT, Have Fun, Be Smart, Everyone is Against you in this Hobby -- At least think like that and appreciate the ones who actually aren't.

Im off my soap box, ty for the time

[Willikn]

If cracking a PSA 6 and listing as, "PSA 10?!?!?!?", then the seller is at fault. Returns should be expected and deserved.

If you crack an 8.5 and list "like new".."I'm not a professional grader" or whatever, I think the area is gray. Depends on the value and age of the card. If it is a Zion Silver Prizm, I still think the seller is at fault given that an 8.5 would would require listing the raw as Nm/Mt or better. Buyer at fault too for not expecting a better listing from a seller of graded items. Buyer thought he was smarter than the seller and lost. Accept the loss I think.

[isles4life]

So you expected a gem mint copy at raw price?

[phdbeckett]

should it come with one of these if its been cracked op?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/59/9e/1e/599e1e13d82e7a76dc8ebf0b3193e126.jpg

OT: Ever wonder if Jordan's sig from high school or elementary school is on one these? (mine is) How about some even more difficult autos?

[hauntedcomputer]

I always assume I am dumber than the seller, who is sharp and handsome and deserves my money. If there was an angle, this genius would play it long before I even approached the table.

[japes3]

So you expected a gem mint copy at raw price?

Nailed it.

[gomiamigo]

It probably should be disclosed, but if the description was NrMt or better, you got what you paid for.