Unhappiness with the hobby

[Connor Pain]

Hey all,

I don't want to make this a 'the hobby sucks' type thread, but recently I've kind of lost a bit of the love for the hobby. Between the ridiculous price increases on certain cards, or the exorbitant prices boxes go for now, the hobby has lost some of the sheen (in my eyes).

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad more people are enjoying the hobby and that people are able to make good money from cards as there is a place for buying/selling or investing in the hobby.

But it's disappointing that most blaster boxes, hell, even single packs, go for $50+ on the low end, before even getting to the price of hobby boxes.

It's near on impossible to buy boxes to rip for fun now without getting lucky enough to purchase them at retail on release day/pre-order.

Why are Hoops boxes going for $200-300+? I don't want to sound like I just have sour gripes as I do still enjoy collecting.

But I just wish I could buy a cheap blaster or hobby box and break it myself or with my brother. And right now, that seems hard to do.

Curious to get your thoughts on anything I've mentioned and how you are all feeling. Do you think it'll continue this way, will it change? Let me know how you're feeling.

Thanks, and again this isn't me angry it's just how I've been feeling recently.

[RadicalAlmond]

From your previous posts it looks like your a Cavs fan I wouldnt be too worried man all your and your brothers cards should still be cheap :)

[PelicanFly]

The only way to get in the hobby cheap is to gamble your money with degen breakers or buy the singles you want.

The hobby will need a few terrible rookie classes to trend back to normalcy.

[Archangel1775]

From your previous posts it looks like your a Cavs fan I wouldnt be too worried man all your and your brothers cards should still be cheap :)

Hahaha, shots fired!

Seriously though, my motivation has dropped. I dont even bother hitting up Wal-Mart and Target and they are literally a 3 minute drive away. I may try and hit up online exclusives but that's about it. I have selected certain sets and have been focusing on those. 2020 Finest Flashbacks Refractors and Star Wars Stellar 1/1/ sketches. For basketball, nothing really. Just MJ,Kobe cheaper singles thats about it.

[mavsfan]

As someone who is just getting back into the hobby after years away I can totally see where you are coming from. My dad and I were talking about the fact that we were able to buy a box of NT in 2013 for $525 which was the biggest purchase of a box by far that we had made at the time. Now that price is at the lowest end of the spectrum. I think when the prospect of money becomes involved, things like what we are seeing are bound to happen. It is unfortunate though that kids and the common collector who wants to even rip a blaster will not have the chance unless they either get lucky and find one in the wild, or fork over an absurd amount of cash for retail.

Some of my favorite memories growing up in the late 2000's/early 2010's were when my parents would come home from Wal-Mart or Target and bring home some packs or a blaster. Not to mention making the trip to the LCS and seeing how far my $20 could stretch at the time. Kids today don't really have that which is unfortunate. I say all this as someone who also invests in cards, but I also still love cards and am building back up my Dirk Nowitzki PC. To your point though, I will never bust a box again unless prices go down drastically. Why would I open up a hoops box for hundreds of dollars when I could use that money to get a great Dirk auto for my collection? Or use that money to prospect in other players/cards?

We have seen the same thing in the sneaker community, Funko Pops, and really anything that is collectable. I have no prediction on if prices of wax will go up or down, but it is a bit curious when lots of product also is bought just to sit on for years unopened. A smart investment to be sure, but a bit of a left turn from what the hobby originally was intended to be I think. At the end of the day I still love the hobby though, and will likely collect until the day I day in some form or fashion. Great question OP, I'll be curious to see other responses.

[mavsfan]

.............

[Yikes]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/uyWTOgNGGWfks/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29knsg69czj81jxh5t4vi6ju710guazahimc1iop3d&rid=giphy.gif

Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on where you stand) the current boom can be partially attributed to stock daytraders or former daytraders that now see an opportunity in the sports card market. It’s like trading commodities or shares of a company but in the physical tangible form. These people are privy to financial opportunities.

I picked up most of my cards and wax late March before all this madness with covid happened. Grabbed some Brons when people panic sold as the stock market tanked and covid hysteria happened.

After the 2019 Mosaic release things went bonkers!

It is what it is. Who knows how long this will last. I’ll still be holding for the long term.

True og hobbyists are left stranded on the sidelines and the sharks are now dictating the market.

[Deadshot]

There are some really frustrating things happening in the hobby right now. But you've got to find ways to pivot and get your enjoyment from other aspects of it. I'm trading, I'm riding the waves, I'm buying lots, etc. Do I prefer the current state of the hobby? No. But I'm having fun anyway.

[Jhedges]

There are some really frustrating things happening in the hobby right now. But you've got to find ways to pivot and get your enjoyment from other aspects of it. I'm trading, I'm riding the waves, I'm buying lots, etc. Do I prefer the current state of the hobby? No. But I'm having fun anyway.

This 100%. There is still plenty of ways to have fun, flip, trade etc. You just have to be willing to change and adapt.

[Keto]

There are some feeling the exact same in the Pokemon/Gaming market as well. This is why you plan everything longterm and plan wisely. The ones regretting are the ones who sold early from my viewpoint so lot of them are crying. Not saying you are but many are. It's so much more fun when you're both a collector and seller at the same time. I'm very diverse in sports and gaming market so everything is moving up for me and I'm loving every moment of it. I'm using the extra cash to put some cards I really want in my longterm collection. Rinse and repeat. Make money and still add more items to my collection.

[hauntedcomputer]

I wouldn't worry too much, because the "problems" will be self-correcting. Manufacturers have the green light to produce more and more (they would be in breach of fiduciary duty if they didn't, as well as idiotic), supply will surpass demand at some point, the people with extra money speculating in cards will soon either need money or want money to speculate in the next hot thing (likely both), economic reality eventually will hit, cards flood back from grading companies, people eventually will realize there is no difference between a 9 and a 10, and all bubbles deflate if they don't pop.

If you were already in, you should capitalize as best you can, because these seller's markets only come around once a generation or so. If you stay in, you'll eventually "get your hobby back." Millions of collectors from the 1980s never bought another card for the rest of their lives.

[Stackfan]

Felt this way most of the year...although i've dropped some bucks for a few boxes at launch.

My recommendation is to find your favorite players (that aren't super popular) and seek out their cards. As well as completing sets. The "Sharks" are just going after the flavor of the moment.

The other thing... unfortunately i really don't see next years Prizm/Optic/select being back to normal. Even with a weak draft class...the way the hobby is now; the product could have no rookies and it would still sell out. People vote with their wallets. IF people don't overpay on Ebay for blasters; and they can be found on the retail shelves; we MIGHT be OK next year. I'm not holding my breathe though.

[solt0131]

I think what a lot of people don't realize is the price or the current wax in relation to the price of the singles that are or could be inside the wax. They're only seeing the price inflation in the wax. You could rip NT basketball at $500 a box only years ago because there weren't $10,000 cards then like there are now. The highest selling card out of the product at that time was probably the Kobe Logoman Auto which was 15k. Base /99 were garbage and had no value, there were guys putting the /99 base set together for nothing.

There was basically the same amount of % risk opening back then as there is now except now, the dollar figure is higher. It's all relative.

[Siberian13]

Felt this way most of the year...although i've dropped some bucks for a few boxes at launch.

My recommendation is to find your favorite players (that aren't super popular) and seek out their cards. As well as completing sets. The "Sharks" are just going after the flavor of the moment.

The other thing... unfortunately i really don't see next years Prizm/Optic/select being back to normal. Even with a weak draft class...the way the hobby is now; the product could have no rookies and it would still sell out. People vote with their wallets. IF people don't overpay on Ebay for blasters; and they can be found on the retail shelves; we MIGHT be OK next year. I'm not holding my breathe though.

Next year will be overpriced and dumb as well regardless of the class. Just think of the prices of 2nd year base cards of Zion, Ja, etc.

[rats60]

https://media1.giphy.com/media/uyWTOgNGGWfks/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29knsg69czj81jxh5t4vi6ju710guazahimc1iop3d&rid=giphy.gif

Unfortunately(or fortunately depending on where you stand) the current boom can be partially attributed to stock daytraders or former daytraders that now see an opportunity in the sports card market. It’s like trading commodities or shares of a company but in the physical tangible form. These people are privy to financial opportunities.

I picked up most of my cards and wax late March before all this madness with covid happened. Grabbed some Brons when people panic sold as the stock market tanked and covid hysteria happened.

After the 2019 Mosaic release things went bonkers!

It is what it is. Who knows how long this will last. I’ll still be holding for the long term.

True og hobbyists are left stranded on the sidelines and the sharks are now dictating the market.

These guys got into the hobby in 1986 and they were all gone by 1993. It is just a cycle. They will play around in the hobby as long as they can make a quick buck. Just look at Project 2020. They drove it sky how and then prices crashed when they left. You just have to be patient and watch for buying opportunities.

[brothertona]

I've moved to more singles, and I've moved my cards to binders so I can look at them more. I've also rediscovered cards I owned as a kid whether that be 94 Upper Deck Alex Rodriguez, or the Peyton rookie I scored from the B/S/T thread. The 90's has some whales definitely but most of Kobe's rookies are pretty cheap as are Vince Carter's. and you can still get Harden rookies cheap. You can get cards of the guys that are really truly great or you can chase the rookies. I know chasing the rookies for me from wax being unavailable, and boxes being way too expensive wasn't really in the cards for me.

[KeenanRIVALS]

I don't think its a "hobby" anymore.

[rafibomb]

I remember coming back when I graduated college bc I loved opening packs as a kid and most hobby boxes were less than $100. Was able to start opening boxes now that I had my own income. If I had tried to come back today and saw the current box prices then I prob would have never started collecting again.

[KhalDrogo]

I don't think its a "hobby" anymore.
For many of us it still is. It’s just more expensive that it was a few years ago.

[solt0131]

I don't think its a "hobby" anymore.

Sure it is, as long as you're under 20,000 in PayPal in a calendar year it is.

:)!:)!

[win1977]

Hello, I hope everyone is well. Interesting post, I've been involved with this hobby for over 35 years and I can tell you some crazy stories over the years. I've been fortunate to accumulate cards that I enjoy and yes they have jumped in value though I don't look at them as an investment. Personally, if I wanted to treat them as such I would put that capital to something that is much more liquid than sports cards. I can understand your unhappiness with the hobby at this point. I've seen it in the 90's with everyone stacking up on Shawn Kemp, Danny Ferry, 89 Hoops series 1 and 2 David Robinson rookies etc. And another poster was right, it's cyclical. I would recommend buy what you like and not invest, there really were alot of collectors that got destroyed in the 90s and never came back. And I don't blame them. Even cards like 86 Fleer Jordan's collapsed in value, and in my opinion when this economic cycle reverses it will again. And yes I still have my Shawn Kemp Fleer, Skybox rookies ! I was never a Danny Ferry fan.

Take care and I hope you can re-acquire that love for the hobby again.

[nman84]

I used to be able to score retail wax, but with a regular 9-5 and kids, I just don’t have time to compete.

I collect vintage of key HOF rookies, prices have gone up 3x-5x on those so they are well out of my range now. The only way I’ll be able to add something big to my collection is trade or selling a PC item. I’m focusing on completing sets now where the non key rookies have not appreciated much at all.

[imbluestreak23]

I absolutely love cards

And I love what is happening right now. Literally obsessed. One of the few good things going for me at the moment so probably why I like it so much.

[smalltown]

find ways to pivot

This right here is the advice. When they Zig, you zag. There are lots of aspects of this hobby being ignored by all the new money and people chasing slabs and sealed retail.

[mvp]

Part of me wants Panini to print cards next year until the printers collapse and make parallels rare as rocking horse poop. Fill it up with base. It would be a lot of pain, but collectors could still collect and it would make things more difficult for the sharks and flippers.

The larger part of me knows this isn't reasonable.

[imbluestreak23]

When Fall 2007/2008 happens again, anything post 2014 is going to be vulnerable sadly

[gomiamigo]

The only way to get in the hobby cheap is to gamble your money with degen breakers or buy the singles you want.

The hobby will need a few terrible rookie classes to trend back to normalcy.

Next year's class is truly awful.

[ballhawkdawk]

This right here is the advice. When they Zig, you zag. There are lots of aspects of this hobby being ignored by all the new money and people chasing slabs and sealed retail.

The increase in graded prices blows me away. I have a few PSA 10s that have soared in value. I’m about to dump them all to fill out the sets I’m working on with ungraded. These are modern cards, not vintage where a grade makes a big difference.

[MikeG]

I wouldn't worry too much, because the "problems" will be self-correcting. Manufacturers have the green light to produce more and more (they would be in breach of fiduciary duty if they didn't, as well as idiotic), supply will surpass demand at some point, the people with extra money speculating in cards will soon either need money or want money to speculate in the next hot thing (likely both), economic reality eventually will hit, cards flood back from grading companies, people eventually will realize there is no difference between a 9 and a 10, and all bubbles deflate if they don't pop.

If you were already in, you should capitalize as best you can, because these seller's markets only come around once a generation or so. If you stay in, you'll eventually "get your hobby back." Millions of collectors from the 1980s never bought another card for the rest of their lives.


Could not have said it better myself.

Greed never ends well. People with zero interest in bball have flooded the market with fresh cash, that cash is going to go into the next “asset class” as soon as the timings right. It could be a few years away, who knows, but it’s coming nonetheless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

Next year's class is truly awful.
Doesn’t matter. LeBron 2019 Optic base gems are a couple hundred bucks.

[CurryMeHome]

With the huge leap in prices I've been a lot more selective with cards i buy, focusing on my pc exclusively atm and selling off most of everything else in order to get some key cards. I was lucky i got a fair few cards last year i can flip now to stay in the game as a collector. It has meant instead of pc'ing 5 players I'm down to 3 perhaps less depending on if things get crazier.

I got lucky getting a few packs of Mosaic and now Chronicles at retail prices but buying new wax is pretty much a non-starter for now. The next year will be interesting but ultimately i think things will settle down eventually. The Flippers and newblood will thin out when they don't hit big, or get frustrated. You have to love the hobby and more importantly the game to stay interested. These investors won't last the distance. Just like the nba players atm we are in a "bubble".

[Schmoove]

Next year's class is truly awful.

People are underestimating the popularity of LaMelo Ball. He’s the best of the 3 and has a social media following greater than 99% of the league. Go look at what his Leaf Autos are selling for and ask yourself if you really believe people won’t be chasing his stuff next year.

Throw in people wanting 2nd year Zion etc.

[valmak]

Why would you guys be mad? We’re all making a killing selling cards right now. And in a few months we can buy back some of our cards at a fraction of the price.

[packerfan4200]

Next year will be overpriced and dumb as well regardless of the class. Just think of the prices of 2nd year base cards of Zion, Ja, etc.

Right...I can’t fathom why anybody would think wax is going to be anywhere near SRP ever again. The top 3 picks in next years draft could be Uncle Drew, Peewee Herman, and my great-grandma Thompson (she’s been dead for about 12 years), and wax would still be 5-10x retail price.

[babyfaceposey]

All my graded cards are starting tonight at .99 on eBay. I make good money and enjoyed busting boxes, but I honestly dont want to spend the money at current prices to gamble. It is a great time to exit the hobby imo.

[armyml]

Why would you guys be mad? We’re all making a killing selling cards right now. And in a few months we can buy back some of our cards at a fraction of the price.

Its a double edged sword though because some guys values aren't going to drop that much. And while I love seeing the cards in my PC explode in value, I hate that the lower tier cards I wanted to purchase a few months ago are now mid-tier, and mid-tier is now high end. And was once high end is simply borderline unaffordable. Lebron Chrome rookie, Luka blue /199 or /99. There is an abundance of Prizm Silver in the wild yet the prices are insane. I don't think any draft class is going to affect prizm price going forward. Too many epic rookies from 2012-now.

[BlowoutBuzz]

Based on rookies, some of this might change for next year's NBA releases. (Or we're looking at the hottest second-year cards ever?)

[CapeTownCards]

All my graded cards are starting tonight at .99 on eBay. I make good money and enjoyed busting boxes, but I honestly dont want to spend the money at current prices to gamble. It is a great time to exit the hobby imo.

Ok, good luck with your sales! :)!

[armyml]

Based on rookies, some of this might change for next year's NBA releases. (Or we're looking at the hottest second-year cards ever?)

You may be right and it might surpass THIS years 2nd year player card madness, but as of now Luka, MPJ, Trae, and a few other guys 2nd year cards are going for BIG money. All gonna depend on what Zion actually DOES I think.

[TimBuckTwo]

Please stop with all the crying.

Get in or get out. No one will care.

Have a nice day.

[rj.cataldo]

I think in times like these you have to change your approach. I don't think this is sustainable and there is a lot of ridiculous money being thrown at ridiculous cards, but that said, there are lots of cards that haven't moved as much. I'm buying/selling more than I have in the past in order to fund other purchases.

My guess is things will eventually drop, but settle above where they were before. That tends to be the pattern.

[asujbl]

Please stop with all the crying.

Get in or get out. No one will care.

Have a nice day.

Damn...

[Inferno]

This whole bubble is just investors and flippers selling to each other and racing each other up the mountain. Problem is there are no true collectors waiting at the top of the mountain to buy their maxed price cards when it's all said and done. The actual collectors are all standing down at base camp watching the lunatics climb and chase and climb and chase. The last ones stuck at the summit with nobody above them to hand their cards to will end up falling off the cliff and the collectors waiting at the bottom will loot the bodies for cheap.

[tjforce]

This whole bubble is just investors and flippers selling to each other and racing each other up the mountain. Problem is there are no true collectors waiting at the top of the mountain to buy their maxed price cards when it's all said and done. The actual collectors are all standing down at base camp watching the lunatics climb and chase and climb and chase. The last ones stuck at the summit with nobody above them to hand their cards to will end up falling off the cliff and the collectors waiting at the bottom will loot the bodies for cheap.

Disagree with this in some ways.

I know a number of true collectors waiting for some ultra rare stuff to come up for sale so they can pay whatever they have to bring it into their collections.

When a 2012 Gold Prizm LeBron comes up it’s not going to be a flipper who buys it.

For the lower end, higher pop stuff, sure, that’s a different story.

[asujbl]

This whole bubble is just investors and flippers selling to each other and racing each other up the mountain. Problem is there are no true collectors waiting at the top of the mountain to buy their maxed price cards when it's all said and done. The actual collectors are all standing down at base camp watching the lunatics climb and chase and climb and chase. The last ones stuck at the summit with nobody above them to hand their cards to will end up falling off the cliff and the collectors waiting at the bottom will loot the bodies for cheap.

This could be in literally 50 years...

It’s all a complete guess

Until the industry is regulated? Why wouldn’t investors and flippers keep moving 6 figures with no one watching them?

[Inferno]

This could be in literally 50 years...

It’s all a complete guess

Until the industry is regulated? Why wouldn’t investors and flippers keep moving 6 figures with no one watching them?

So what, everything is supposed to just keep doubling and doubling in perpetuity until a Luka silver sells for a million dollars? Nobody at any point will stop and say ''wait, what the hell are we doing here''?

There has to be a chink in the armor somewhere.

[asujbl]

So what, everything is supposed to just keep doubling and doubling in perpetuity until a Luka silver sells for a million dollars? Nobody at any point will stop and say ''wait, what the hell are we doing here''?

There has to be a chink in the armor somewhere.

Yes. It’s entirely possible

Until the industry becomes regulated

People can pass $$ around through consignment and cash and no one knows anything about it

Which it won’t... at least not soon

[asujbl]

So what, everything is supposed to just keep doubling and doubling in perpetuity until a Luka silver sells for a million dollars? Nobody at any point will stop and say ''wait, what the hell are we doing here''?

There has to be a chink in the armor somewhere.

Name me another industry where I could sell $500,000 worth of stuff through PWCC and get paid by check?

This is what investors/flippers/gamblers figured out

[KhalDrogo]

This whole bubble is just investors and flippers selling to each other and racing each other up the mountain. Problem is there are no true collectors waiting at the top of the mountain to buy their maxed price cards when it's all said and done. The actual collectors are all standing down at base camp watching the lunatics climb and chase and climb and chase. The last ones stuck at the summit with nobody above them to hand their cards to will end up falling off the cliff and the collectors waiting at the bottom will loot the bodies for cheap.
What defines an "actual collector"?

[orion9578]

Yes. It’s entirely possible

Until the industry becomes regulated

People can pass $$ around through consignment and cash and no one knows anything about it

Which it won’t... at least not soon

Money, meet mouth. Go buy Luka Silver 10's for 7k+, since you seem to think it's entirely possible...that they'll be worth 1M, or say, 100k...hell, 25k. You'll make a killing.

[asujbl]

Money, meet mouth. Go buy Luka Silver 10's for 7k+, since you seem to think it's entirely possible...that they'll be worth 1M, or say, 100k...hell, 25k. You'll make a killing.

Already have one or I would. Thanks though

[orion9578]

Already have one or I would. Thanks though

One? Why stop at only one? Doesn't make any sense, financially speaking...since they could go to 1M.

I'm assuming you've been around long enough to see expensive cards fall to nearly nothing before? I'll also assume that's why you "only" have one? Because if you truly believe what I see you post regularly, that this is the new normal and cards will only go up for the near future because of people basically laundering money via cards....WHY are you NOT buying everything and anything in sight?

[asianassassin24]

From my vantage point and in agreement with the others who have posted about it:

In a sports card market like this, it really helps me prioritize what I want to get for the PC. I'm buying less random stuff of players I don't focus on collecting or less appealing versions of a card. This second part is really coming to light with vintage, where I'm staying away from heavily mis-centered cards with less visual eye-appeal.

[asujbl]

One? Why stop at only one? Doesn't make any sense, financially speaking...since they could go to 1M.

I'm assuming you've been around long enough to see expensive cards fall to nearly nothing before? I'll also assume that's why you "only" have one? Because if you truly believe what I see you post regularly, that this is the new normal and cards will only go up for the near future because of people basically laundering money via cards....WHY are you NOT buying everything and anything in sight?

I like to diversify

All my stuff is going up

So I don’t need doubles

I can make money across the board

I spend plenty a week to make this happen. I just don’t need doubles of Luka.

[This is]

I collect baseball football and basketball mostly on the lower end and always can find singles in my price range. For example Topps Project2020 cards are $20 a piece and are amazing!! Also I will sometimes buy older baseball wax from the 1990's that can still me had for cheap and its a ton of fun to rip. I feel like a kid again when I pull cards of Griffey and Frank Thomas. You just have to adjust.

[orion9578]

I like to diversify

All my stuff is going up

So I don’t need doubles

I can make money across the board

I spend plenty a week to make this happen. I just don’t need doubles of Luka.

You don't need doubles of a card that's selling for 7k right now that could be worth 1M? Odd choice :coffee:

[asujbl]

You don't need doubles of a card that's selling for 7k right now that could be worth 1M? Odd choice :coffee:

How do you know my other purchases aren’t going to be worth 1M?

Seems like a presumption

Do you have an item you’d like to sell me? I’d be happy to listen

[helstad]

I'm divided on this.

On the one hand I'm selling cards for $70 that I got for $2. I opened a lot of 2017 optic blasters for $15 a box, now the yellow red rated rookies sell for crazy money. That is nice and it has allowed me to get some cards for my Timberwolves collection.

On the other hand I have to be honest, I can't fully enjoy the hobby without opening a box once in a while. I can't afford it anymore and it made me lose some enthusiasm. Normally when prices went up on basketball I opened a soccer box, but that's now impossible too.

Right now I'm happy filling my binders with the Wolves parallels I miss, but I know I'll eventually stop altogether if I'm priced out of boxes for a long period.

I wish they would make cheap special boxes with no rookies in them.

[orion9578]

How do you know my other purchases aren’t going to be worth 1M?

Seems like a presumption

Do you have an item you’d like to sell me? I’d be happy to listen

I'm likely sitting in the same boat as you are friend :). I don't need the money either. I seriously am just curious why you aren't buying every single 7k card you can get your hands on with the statements you make. I'm sure you have plenty of cards worth money. I'm sure you don't need money from cards. I'm just looking for an explanation as to why you don't follow through with spending 7k to possibly make 1M...like multiple times, as many times as possible. :)!

[asujbl]

I'm likely sitting in the same boat as you are friend :). I don't need the money either. I seriously am just curious why you aren't buying every single 7k card you can get your hands on with the statements you make. I'm sure you have plenty of cards worth money. I'm sure you don't need money from cards. I'm just looking for an explanation as to why you don't follow through with spending 7k to possibly make 1M...like multiple times, as many times as possible. :)!

Because I’m incredibly lazy

If you want an honest answer

[orion9578]

Because I’m incredibly lazy

If you want an honest answer

Fair enough. To lazy to click buttons might win you some type of award for laziness. Haha. There look to be 20 Luka 10's on eBay now. 20 button clicks(though some are auctions) to make what seems to be 100's of thousands of dollars.

To get on to the topic at hand, I am on the other side of the fence as the things will keep going up crowd. I was going to piece my collection out slowly but have moved that timeline WAY up and have already sold about 80%. I will likely lose out on prices moving even higher but I'd like to be out with cash in hand a good 6 months before any type of crash. Do I need the cash? Nope. I also can't say no to what I'm making. I have been wrong many times in regards to cards going up, down etc. but I am moving to cash on literally 99% of it. Then I'll wait and see if I made the right choice and can buy back in, in a significant way, in say 1 year? If not, I turned 1 dollar into 10 and can't be mad about that.

For the most part, this isn't a hobby right now. At least not the hobby I knew as a 7-10 year old in the mid to late 80's. I'm not really complaining about the money, more power to people making a killing. But, some of the fun is gone, and I'm going to wait till it comes back(and prices come back down).

[myusasets]

From your previous posts it looks like your a Cavs fan I wouldnt be too worried man all your and your brothers cards should still be cheap :)

cheap shot. show some respect for the forum.

[ragingbull]

It is hard to fathom what is currently happening. In my case, I also speculate on rookie cards, but this year, I can’t speculate because almost all are hyped. Even the established players’ cards are hyped. On eBay, steals are still possible, but they are rare to come by. I am not planning to leave, but I have no intentions of forcing myself in buying cards with exorbitant and illogical prices - prices I am uncomfortable with.

Kinda frustrated because adding cards to the PC havent been a lot lately. i also think we are in a bubble. A tipping point will come..

[jfan2024]

I enjoy it now in a different way.

This used to be a hobby for me in that the joy was pulling a rare card out of a pack or just owning some cool cards.

Now that joy is gone. There is no more opening packs. The joy however is in the wheeling and dealing. How is putting cash in your pocket not fun?

Truthfully, I liked the hobby better the first way when it was just a hobby. However, the current one is much more palatable financially so enjoy it while it lasts. I believe I'll be ripping optic basketball mega cases for $400 again someday

[rj.cataldo]

What defines an "actual collector"?

In my view, an actual collector is someone who buys something with the intention of a long-term hold in their collection - not with the intent to move it for a profit and often less motivated by the monetary value of the item. That said, I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. You can be an "actual collector" and engage with other cards simply for the intention of profit. I myself have three Luka cards, one to keep (because I think hes a generational player), and two I intend to sell to acquire other cards that are more central to my collecting goals.

I think the point of the post was, who is buying those Lukas at 7k+; people who intend to hold that card for decades, or people who look at it as a vehicle for monetary gain?

As TJ noted, some of the rare cards bring out people that will pay any price for a card and then it won't be seen again for maybe decades. I have rare cards that I almost would never let go for any price, short of some life changing amount of money.

Certainly, there are exceptions to every rule, and I think that market mania tends to pull "actual collectors" in, out of fear that they might be priced out, while simultaneously prompting some who never intended to sell to let go of some cards because they prices are too good.

[CubbysCardboard]

Hey all,

I don't want to make this a 'the hobby sucks' type thread, but recently I've kind of lost a bit of the love for the hobby. Between the ridiculous price increases on certain cards, or the exorbitant prices boxes go for now, the hobby has lost some of the sheen (in my eyes).

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad more people are enjoying the hobby and that people are able to make good money from cards as there is a place for buying/selling or investing in the hobby.

But it's disappointing that most blaster boxes, hell, even single packs, go for $50+ on the low end, before even getting to the price of hobby boxes.

It's near on impossible to buy boxes to rip for fun now without getting lucky enough to purchase them at retail on release day/pre-order.

Why are Hoops boxes going for $200-300+? I don't want to sound like I just have sour gripes as I do still enjoy collecting.

But I just wish I could buy a cheap blaster or hobby box and break it myself or with my brother. And right now, that seems hard to do.

Curious to get your thoughts on anything I've mentioned and how you are all feeling. Do you think it'll continue this way, will it change? Let me know how you're feeling.

Thanks, and again this isn't me angry it's just how I've been feeling recently.

Where you finding Hoops boxes for $200-300??? LCS’ in my area are selling 2019-20 Hoops at $400+!!!

[Schmoove]

I'm divided on this.

On the one hand I'm selling cards for $70 that I got for $2. I opened a lot of 2017 optic blasters for $15 a box, now the yellow red rated rookies sell for crazy money. That is nice and it has allowed me to get some cards for my Timberwolves collection.

On the other hand I have to be honest, I can't fully enjoy the hobby without opening a box once in a while. I can't afford it anymore and it made me lose some enthusiasm. Normally when prices went up on basketball I opened a soccer box, but that's now impossible too.

Right now I'm happy filling my binders with the Wolves parallels I miss, but I know I'll eventually stop altogether if I'm priced out of boxes for a long period.

I wish they would make cheap special boxes with no rookies in them.

If you are selling cards for $68 profit( I know it’s an arbitrary #), how can you not afford to open boxes? Maybe not hobby, but there was a good time when Mosaic megas were $114 and hangers/blasters were $45.

[RadicalAlmond]

cheap shot. show some respect for the forum.

Sorry Dan Gilbert! Didn't know you frequented BlowoutCards!

[asujbl]

Sorry Dan Gilbert! Didn't know you frequented BlowoutCards!

Dude is in a wheelchair.

Be respectful

[RadicalAlmond]

Dude is in a wheelchair.

Be respectful

LOL well you should do as Dan Gilbert and sit down.

[helstad]

If you are selling cards for $68 profit( I know it’s an arbitrary #), how can you not afford to open boxes? Maybe not hobby, but there was a good time when Mosaic megas were $114 and hangers/blasters were $45.

When I sell singles I use that money to buy Wolves singles.

When I say I can't afford, maybe it wasn't the right expression. I can afford them in the sense I have enough money in my bank account to get them, but I can't afford them in the sense that I know (since I only keep Wolves and the occasional HOFer) I will not get near enough value (sale value or trade value) to justify spending that much money.

If I did it would be stressful and not enjoyable.

[asujbl]

LOL well you should do as Dan Gilbert and sit down.

You’re a psycho

Kind of have to respect it

[TimBuckTwo]

When I sell singles I use that money to buy TWolves singles.

When I say I can't afford, maybe it wasn't the right expression. I can afford them in the sense I have enough money in my bank account to get them, but I can't afford them in the sense that I know (since I only keep TWolves and the occasional HOFer) I will not get near enough value (sale value or trade value) to justify spending that much money.

If I did it would be stressful and not enjoyable.

Fixed

[Stifle]

I don't think its a "hobby" anymore.

B I N G O !

It’s not about collecting, it’s about flipping. Nobody trades anymore because the cards are placed online.

[DajuanWagner]

I don't think its a "hobby" anymore.



Not true. Opticbois unite!!!!!!

[mondogenerator]

its kinda sad kids have no entry points for the hobby these days really.

[Justin7]

its kinda sad kids have no entry points for the hobby these days really.

I was recently having a conversation with a senior in high school who was graduating, we talk sports sometimes and he didn't know but I was trying to figure out what to get him for a gift since he didn't really get a true graduation since this years class missed out. So I asked him his favorite player and favorite team. The player he picked happened to have played for his favorite team for one season. I found the number 69/299 ( a joke the kids think is funny) autograph of his favorite player in his favorite teams jersey...for $7. Kid was elated, I got him money and stuff of course too but he was real happy about the card.

All that to say, when you take the "what value does this have" blinders off you can find some stuff kids like and sometimes that gives them an entry point into the hobby. Obviously, your idea of the hobby includes ripping wax which I haven't really been able to do for anyone because it's so expensive but kids don't know that ripping wax is what we think of when we think of the hobby and are more than happy to participate in the parts they have personal connections too in my opinion.

[threefromthetee]

Sure it is, as long as you're under 20,000 in PayPal in a calendar year it is.

:)!:)!

It’s over $20k AND 200 payment transactions to trigger a taxable statement to the IRS. I don’t understand why so much misinformation is spread about this.

[go_steelers07]

It’s over $20k AND 200 payment transactions to trigger a taxable statement to the IRS. I don’t understand why so much misinformation is spread about this.

I think you missed what solt was getting at.

[gomiamigo]

its kinda sad kids have no entry points for the hobby these days really.

This is a huge problem for the hobby. Panini is being very short-term greedy and it will cost them dearly in the long run. But the CEO of Panini america doesn't care about anything but maxxing out his bonus this year.

I can buy any box I want but with the prices, I've only chosen to rip one wax box since the run-up. What young person can afford to open anything new?

[go_steelers07]

This is a huge problem for the hobby. Panini is being very short-term greedy and it will cost them dearly in the long run. But the CEO of Panini america doesn't care about anything but maxxing out his bonus this year.

I can buy any box I want but with the prices, I've only chosen to rip one wax box since the run-up. What young person can afford to open anything new?

Panini probably understands that this really isn’t a hobby anymore.
They know that it isn’t for kids and they don’t need to get kids involved to prosper.
It’s for investors and gamblers. The kids that don’t get involved now, will grow up and have disposable income to play with. Once they get hooked on the “high” of group breaks or pulling that $1000 card.... it’s over and they will dump tons of money.
Those of us that have been around before the run up will always be saying “but the kids”. When in reality, it’s not for the kids. Those days are long gone.

[hauntedcomputer]

I wouldn't be so sure that kids who miss out on collecting will suddenly jump in at age 30 and first big-salaried job. there's a strong emotional and nostalgic element to the hobby (I know, because this is my third time around).

The adults who jumped in for the money will be the first ones to leave, and probably all at once.

[oldgoldy97]

I wouldn't be so sure that kids who miss out on collecting will suddenly jump in at age 30 and first big-salaried job. there's a strong emotional and nostalgic element to the hobby (I know, because this is my third time around).

The adults who jumped in for the money will be the first ones to leave, and probably all at once.

The trick will be figuring out what the kids will feel nostalgic about and buy that stuff now to sell to them in 20 years :)!

[growdoe]

There are some really frustrating things happening in the hobby right now. But you've got to find ways to pivot and get your enjoyment from other aspects of it. I'm trading, I'm riding the waves, I'm buying lots, etc. Do I prefer the current state of the hobby? No. But I'm having fun anyway.

I agree there are more aspects to the hobby to enjoy. Like games within the game. You can hold wax, rip and list, buy singles to grade, flip slabs, or buy and hold for PC. Much more dynamic now, and product brands at different price points. Edit: and trade, which we've all missed doing at card shows.

[Kobefan]

I don't like the direction of the hobby as well. Sure, with the explosion in base card prices, I can now sell my base cards at much higher prices, but the prices of my PC cards jumped as well, and no matter how many base cards I sell, it won't be enough to buy my PC cards. I can't really open boxes anymore because of the price, the last ones I opened were FOTL origins boxes, before Panini did the dutch auction.

[Anejo]

Most kids in general could care less about cards nowadays. I will show my son a card I get, he'll be like cool dad and that's it. More interested in playing 2k, Fortnite or going on Instagram/You Tube.

[thekiddfan]

Kids wouldnt care about cards these days

Ipad over cards, 100%

[PSA2Pac]

You have to learn how to leverage the changes in the hobby to your advantage.

Too much complaining, meanwhile folks are missing a perfect opportunity to capitalize on the current demand. Every collection went up massively in value, yet some only want to focus on the fact they cant walk into walmart and buy a blaster.


I get it, but things evolve. Gotta be able to evolve with it.

[jcardstore]

You have to learn how to leverage the changes in the hobby to your advantage.

Too much complaining, meanwhile folks are missing a perfect opportunity to capitalize on the current demand. Every collection went up massively in value, yet some only want to focus on the fact they cant walk into walmart and buy a blaster.


I get it, but things evolve. Gotta be able to evolve with it.

I think people are upset that the "regular guy" has been priced out. There are some people who are fortunate enough to afford to buy things they want when they want to buy them but for people who are just really passionate about cards without a 6 figure income it's becoming more and more difficult to collect

[jbball50]

You have to learn how to leverage the changes in the hobby to your advantage.

Too much complaining, meanwhile folks are missing a perfect opportunity to capitalize on the current demand. Every collection went up massively in value, yet some only want to focus on the fact they cant walk into walmart and buy a blaster.


I get it, but things evolve. Gotta be able to evolve with it.

Just like stocks... buy your pc and collection low when this comes crashing down but all the cards you don’t want in that collection sell now at high prices. When the recession hits, the new people will sell and leave, then you can get your pc stuff for cheap with the money you sold other cards high for.

[jgrann13]

You know why this hobby brings unhappiness? Two things:

People and the Internet.
Thats what ruined this hobby. Back in the day you would go to a card show or store talk and communicate with real people and buy and sell. No issues no problem. Hello and goodbye.

Now you sell on a website that could care less about the seller. You have buyers hiding behind a keyboard waiting for the next switch a roo scam they can run. Greedy lowlife buyers are pulling scams daily. There is no decency in this hobby anymore.

Buy everything. Luka Giannis Lebron All of them.

The fun is gone because even when you want to go and sell your high end cards good luck doing that on ebay. Good luck selling a card over 1k on here. Its a nightmare. Buyer wins. So just buy buy.

[Lklk52]

I’m in my late 40s and have collected since I was 10-11 yrs old, the disappointing thing for me is being unable to find any Boxes Hobby or retail at a decent price! I don’t understand why guys are buying all retail display boxes and after shipping and fees making $5 profit for baseball and $15 profit on b-ball smh!!!
The good thing for me is I have started buying HOF single autos which is a steal IMO..
I can buy a Jerry West auto cheaper than a Brandon Clarke auto lol, makes Zero sense but not complaining!!! Would like Wax to come back to earth but with Breakers I don’t think it’s possible!

[bberns]

its kinda sad kids have no entry points for the hobby these days really.

Why can't they buy singles?

[BenWallacePC]

Why can't they buy singles?

Unless I am woefully uninformed, I didn't think many 8 and 9 year olds had bank accounts to go online and buy cards on their own. Seems like it'd be much easier to grab a fat pack or hanger box when at the grocery store and open at home.

Also, with how easy it is to hide card flaws online, what adult is going to want to sit with a kid for an hour or more looking for a "clean" copy of a card to buy on behalf of that kid? Obviously, yes, buying singles is a better value, but thinking back to my own youthful collecting, half the fun was seeing what you could get in the pack.

EDIT: Not sure how many mid-sized towns (think population under 50k) still have an LCS for a kid to go to and view single cards in person. That could be an avenue but again, not as many card shops as Walmarts and Targets.

[bberns]

Unless I am woefully uninformed, I didn't think many 8 and 9 year olds had bank accounts to go online and buy cards on their own. Seems like it'd be much easier to grab a fat pack or hanger box when at the grocery store and open at home.



You make good points, but my eight year old and I really enjoy browsing COMC looking for deals. He's always bugging me when the next bulk shipment is going to come. I have him set up with a nice vault x binder so that he can insert his penny sleeve keepers.

NOTE: I gave his some base Ronaldo cards that were a toss-in with some nicer cards that I bought a while back. Those cards have since exploded! At least I didn't sell them!

[gowizards0]

.....

[thewild3]

You have to learn how to leverage the changes in the hobby to your advantage.

Too much complaining, meanwhile folks are missing a perfect opportunity to capitalize on the current demand. Every collection went up massively in value, yet some only want to focus on the fact they cant walk into walmart and buy a blaster.


I get it, but things evolve. Gotta be able to evolve with it.

Exactly this!!! Last year I couldn't get rid of my 90's and 00's basketball stuff. With so many new collectors coming into the hobby its driving up prices on a lot of cards that you couldnt move for pennies on the dollar in the beginning of the year. Take advantage of the current market and dump cause the way the market is going it cant sustain.

[ovrcollect]

You know why this hobby brings unhappiness? Two things:

People and the Internet.
Thats what ruined this hobby. Back in the day you would go to a card show or store talk and communicate with real people and buy and sell. No issues no problem. Hello and goodbye.

Now you sell on a website that could care less about the seller. You have buyers hiding behind a keyboard waiting for the next switch a roo scam they can run. Greedy lowlife buyers are pulling scams daily. There is no decency in this hobby anymore.

Buy everything. Luka Giannis Lebron All of them.

The fun is gone because even when you want to go and sell your high end cards good luck doing that on ebay. Good luck selling a card over 1k on here. Its a nightmare. Buyer wins. So just buy buy.

I agree with the People part - there are no repercussions for being a scumbag in the hobby.

But - without being able to browse, discuss, and shop online, I probably wouldn't collect at all. I've been on eBay buying and selling cards for over 20 years. I don't know anyone else who collects nearly as seriously as I do, and all the shops around me have closed or switched to non-sports hobby shops.

[gomiamigo]

Exactly this!!! Last year I couldn't get rid of my 90's and 00's basketball stuff. With so many new collectors coming into the hobby its driving up prices on a lot of cards that you couldnt move for pennies on the dollar in the beginning of the year.

right so it's good for sellers of crap cards and Walmart campers, and bad for everybody else. That's why it sucks.

[Josie27]

Why can't they buy singles?

They can. But online searches are not half as fun as opening packs of cards.

[cboog3105]

its actually more fun once you get the hang of it

[BenWallacePC]

You make good points, but my eight year old and I really enjoy browsing COMC looking for deals. He's always bugging me when the next bulk shipment is going to come. I have him set up with a nice vault x binder so that he can insert his penny sleeve keepers.

NOTE: I gave his some base Ronaldo cards that were a toss-in with some nicer cards that I bought a while back. Those cards have since exploded! At least I didn't sell them!

Quality parenting right here! COMC is a sort of virtual "bargain bin" and a great place to start kids looking for inexpensive cards of players from their favorite team.

[jme9626]

I feel ya. I bought one hobby box per month before all the craziness. Now I can not. I haven’t seen any retail since December which was one mega box of Prizm. I was lucky enough to hit a base Zion and a silver lebron in that box as well as a pink ice luka. I paid $28 for that box at Walmart. Since I can’t find anything and won’t pay crazy prices I have found some happiness in buying low end cards in bulk locally, here on the forums, and on eBay. I sell what looks good on eBay, and I use the funds to buy singles of what I want. Sometimes I feel lucky and get in in a break cheap. I’ll keep doing this until prices come back to normal.


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[Kobefan]

I feel ya. I bought one hobby box per month before all the craziness. Now I can not. I haven’t seen any retail since December which was one mega box of Prizm. I was lucky enough to hit a base Zion and a silver lebron in that box as well as a pink ice luka. I paid $28 for that box at Walmart. Since I can’t find anything and won’t pay crazy prices I have found some happiness in buying low end cards in bulk locally, here on the forums, and on eBay. I sell what looks good on eBay, and I use the funds to buy singles of what I want. Sometimes I feel lucky and get in in a break cheap. I’ll keep doing this until prices come back to normal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If collectors keep on joining breaks, box prices might never go back to normal.

[Deadshot]

If collectors keep on joining breaks, box prices might never go back to normal.

Uh oh, people aren't going to like hearing this truthful statement

[gomiamigo]

Yeah, I mean it's a catch-22 for people that like to rip:

1) I want to open product buy box prices are too high
2) Need to get new cards of my fave team/rookie
3) Buy the 76ers [let's say] in a break

Rinse, repeat.


Not to mention if it weren't for people buying spots there'd be like zero singles out there for this year's products.

[DajuanWagner]

Yeah, I mean it's a catch-22 for people that like to rip:

1) I want to open product buy box prices are too high
2) Need to get new cards of my fave team/rookie
3) Buy the 76ers [let's say] in a break

Rinse, repeat.


Not to mention if it weren't for people buying spots there'd be like zero singles out there for this year's products.




That's true...…..glad breakers are listing singles.

[jme9626]

If collectors keep on joining breaks, box prices might never go back to normal.


I hear ya. But I never pay more than $10 to get my teams spot. I’ve only been in a couple. I just did so I could get the rookie I wanted. Now that I have it I haven’t been in any more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BackToWax]

To show how asinine the hobby has become, look at this:

I bought a case of 2016-17 Optic Hangers from Blowout for $199. A sealed case of 36 hangers. Here it is:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1309224

This was a great deal because of a sale. Still.

Now one of the "big 3" is selling hangers, ONE hanger, for $139.

I paid $5.53 per hanger vs. $139 per hanger. The price of 2016-17 wax has jumped 25 times in basically 15 months. Even if you factor in the normal price for that product was basically $300 for a sealed case, it's still bad.

That's straight price gouging.

Sure, there is a reason that 2018-19 / 2019-20 is hot. I get that. 2016-17 is not hot. It shouldn't be yet prices are up by 25X. Why?

[jme9626]

To show how asinine the hobby has become, look at this:

I bought a case of 2016-17 Optic Hangers from Blowout for $199. A sealed case of 36 hangers. Here it is:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1309224

This was a great deal because of a sale. Still.

Now one of the "big 3" is selling hangers, ONE hanger, for $139.

I paid $5.53 per hanger vs. $139 per hanger. The price of 2016-17 wax has jumped 25 times in basically 15 months. Even if you factor in the normal price for that product was basically $300 for a sealed case, it's still bad.

That's straight price gouging.

Sure, there is a reason that 2018-19 / 2019-20 is hot. I get that. 2016-17 is not hot. It shouldn't be yet prices are up by 25X. Why?


I’ve seen the same thing at my LCS. Hobby box of 2015, 2016, 2017 are $300. When just a few months ago they were $69. He has 2017 blasters for $179.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BackToWax]

I’ve seen the same thing at my LCS. Hobby box of 2015, 2016, 2017 are $300. When just a few months ago they were $69. He has 2017 blasters for $179.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here. Donruss boxes from those years are $50-100 boxes. Not $150-300

They also always have retail blasters now when they never did in the past.

[jme9626]

I just don’t see why people would pay $300-$400 for 2015, 2016 hoops. My LCS guy is nuts.


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[Inferno]

If collectors keep on joining breaks, box prices might never go back to normal.

It's a viscous cycle then because all people can afford to do is join breaks nowadays. Wax, too expensive. Singles, getting too expensive. Breaks? If you got nothing else to buy you may as well roll the dice on a break and see if you can get the hot single you can't afford to buy out of the wax you also can't afford to open yourself.

It will never reverse itself unless the whole hobby crashes.

[jme9626]

I has gotten way out of hand. I had been wanting to get one or two silver prizms of rookie from my team. Couple weeks ago they were averaging $50, I wanted to buy two so I saved up $100, went over to ComC and the cheapest one is now $180. eBay is reaching close to that as well. I may just keep saving until if and when things go back to normal.


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[dfwsoccer01]

It's a viscous cycle then because all people can afford to do is join breaks nowadays. Wax, too expensive. Singles, getting too expensive. Breaks? If you got nothing else to buy you may as well roll the dice on a break and see if you can get the hot single you can't afford to buy out of the wax you also can't afford to open yourself.

It will never reverse itself unless the whole hobby crashes.


It’s coming.... I got back into the hobby during COVID, when I heard about the crazy Prizm prices, so I sold off everything I had and most of my collection. I’ve reinvested a small amount in some Tatis Jr. and Luis Rober rc auto’s, that I purchased fairly low and still have realistic growth potential. But, all these whacked out basketball RC prices are insane. When you have thousands of base Prizm Rc’s at PSA 10 going for thousands, what do you expect? There’s no exclusivity to justify those prices! At some point people are going to get stuck with these $3k base cards and nobody left to sell them too.......


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[MJGOAT23]

It’s over $20k AND 200 payment transactions to trigger a taxable statement to the IRS. I don’t understand why so much misinformation is spread about this.

it is State dependent. Mass all it takes is $600

[hauntedcomputer]

The market is never wrong, just occasionally insane.

[growdoe]

What seems new to me is the competitiveness of fantasy sports coming into the hobby which will tie card prices to player stats even closer. Lots of tiers to this card game, too, so likelihood of an overall hobby decline seems low to me. Also, a lot of room for improvement in the technology driving the card market.

[asujbl]

it is State dependent. Mass all it takes is $600

No.

It's not State dependent (in terms of reporting your income... $600 is the general rule for business, mine included, to issue the form)


1099 - IRS knows about you
No 1099 (no matter how much you sell) - You hope the IRS doesn't find out about you

That's it. That's all it is.

The 1099 is, at it's base level, simply a form that guarantees the IRS is going to match up your SSN to your Tax Return

Doesn't mean you can exclude the income (whether $600 or $20,000)

You just hope they don't find out you are doing it