I would not buy Topps Kobe RC as an investment card

[uclakersfan]

I believe investing in a Kobe Topps RC is akin to investing in Cisco and Walmart back in the 90's (instead of Apple, Amazon or Google).

The Kobe Topps RC might be hot right now, but many years from now, as there are more rare rookie cards out there, perceived value and consequently actual card values might change

There are many more rare Kobe rookies and kobe rookie inserts that are going for a lot cheaper right now, including SP die cut gold rookie, Topps Youthquake
These might go up much higher in value many years from now... I would invest in those instead

It is crazy how even the 2nd year topps Kobe goes more than the 1996 Fleer Ultra all rookies Kobe.

[The Finest]

Can blow out please create a separate category for these topics?

[kevin2323]

Can blow out please create a separate category for these topics?

Lol....

[LeLuka]

So you don’t own many Kobe Topps rookies then and have collected the ones you mentioned?

J/k card is overvalued as #@#@#@#@ and the time to invest was any year before 2020. Not today lol. Reaching near half of it’s much cooler, much rarer condition sensitive Chrome counterpart is a total joke.

[SPauthentic84]

cesspool

[SK40]

Quality take that everyone should read.

[hairyangryfella]

This market is insane. Or just people are stupid. Or both

A very common, LOW END card like the Topps RC (his third worst after CC and Hoops) should NEVER be selling for more than a HIGH END one like his Finest. Ever.

[DajuanWagner]

cesspool



You beat me to it!!!!

[Kobe101]

cesspool

Investor dork 😂

[uclakersfan]

This market is insane. Or just people are stupid. Or both

A very common, LOW END card like the Topps RC (his third worst after CC and Hoops) should NEVER be selling for more than a HIGH END one like his Finest. Ever.

True. Another crazy thing is that his Second year Topps PSA 10 is selling for more than numerous PSA 10 rookie and rookie inserts right now

[SPauthentic84]

Investor dork 😂

hahah probably more accurate in this situation

[jzx1103]

Let people invest in what they want. (At least until I get my 5 Topps Kobe Rc back from PSA) :D

[hauntedcomputer]

Don't say the quiet part out loud. This entire pyramid scheme depends upon new money.

[Hallco]

Not a great photo on that card either!

[bmf]

So you MISSED OUT ON Kobe Topps rookies then and have collected the ones you mentioned?

fixed it for ya ;)

[LC2nine10]

This market is insane. Or just people are stupid. Or both

A very common, LOW END card like the Topps RC (his third worst after CC and Hoops) should NEVER be selling for more than a HIGH END one like his Finest. Ever.

Can you please explain the silver craze to me?

[jzx1103]

I mean same can be argued about Luka Prizm base and Silvers (plentiful in supply) vs some of his rarer Auto rookie year cards that can be had for cheaper.

[LeonfromNC]

Don’t buy sell. Then buy rarer cards.

[shootit]

I mean same can be argued about Luka Prizm base and Silvers (plentiful in supply) vs some of his rarer Auto rookie year cards that can be had for cheaper.

this.

jus cus u have an opinion, doesnt make it right.. for some reason the market values liquidity over scarcity and prices things as sop

coming from someone who tries to only go after serial numbered cards

[PSA2Pac]

this.

jus cus u have an opinion, doesnt make it right.. for some reason the market values liquidity over scarcity and prices things as sop



exactly.
lotta salty folks because the market doesnt align with their own personal collecting strategy

[LC2nine10]

Honestly, id take a kobe chrome over 99% of these new guys that wont 1/10th the career.

[mc1]

Can you please explain the silver craze to me?

Topps had refractors.

Panini has prizms/silvers.

Someone please track the pop for the two Kobe Topps cards from 96-97 and 97-98.

I wonder in 6 months and 12 months how many thousands more are slabbed. I bet many people are sending in bulk lots of 20, 50 or 100.

[Willikn]

Topps had refractors.



Panini has prizms/silvers.



Someone please track the pop for the two Kobe Topps cards from 96-97 and 97-98.



I wonder in 6 months and 12 months how many thousands more are slabbed. I bet many people are sending in bulk lots of 20, 50 or 100.Topps paper is already the most common Kobe RC is a 10 slab. Certain folks were prepping for this.

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[GeechQuest]

this.

jus cus u have an opinion, doesnt make it right.. for some reason the market values liquidity over scarcity and prices things as sop

coming from someone who tries to only go after serial numbered cards

Agree with this.

The only people I know who are buying Bass cards are the guys wanting to make cards a stock market. That’s fine by me. They’re all just passing around the same money and it doesn’t have any downside for me.

You have 3 guys: A, B, C

Guy A sells a Luka Bass for $500 to guy B. Guy B sells the same card to guy C for $1K. Guy C sells it back to guy A for $1.5K. Guy A sells it back to Guy B for $2K.

They’re just cycling their money around. It doesn’t hurt me in the slightest. Quite the contrary actually. Cards that may have financially been out of my hobby budget have now become easily attainable because I had rookie bass in my giveaway box. Cards that would have been “free” before now are worth $20-$100 bucks. The rare stuff that I like to purchase hasn’t gone up at the same rate, so my buying power has greatly increased.

Long term I won’t be able to play because I can’t find cheap wax anymore to open and get these bass cards, but I’ve been able to acquire amazing additions thanks to these guys who want to flip bass.

If they want to pay $100s of dollars for 1996 Kobe Topps Paper that cost me under $1 to acquire then be my guest. I’ll supply you and in turn shift that money into cards I would have never been able to justify purchasing before this year. Let them pass the money around to each other.

[imbluestreak23]

The rare stuff that I like to purchase hasn’t gone up at the same rate, so my buying power has greatly increased.


This is spot on. Some rare things out there just chilling while the bass explosion is happening! Love it!

[Bob Ross]

Kobe 96 Topps PSA 10 is an iconic card. More condition sensitive than people think. Only 2231 10's against 10557 graded. Very low 21.1% Gem rate.

[SPauthentic84]

lol over 10,000 graded

[MyckKabongo]

I think I am going to have to start a thread on "liquidity." This concept is ridiculous. It's a thing that sounds smart because it uses a fancy business term but in actuality it is not smart--quite the opposite actually.

"Oh, liquidity is really important because it means the card is easy to move and you can find comps!"

Finding comps is not that hard. Learn ratios. Learn how to use other players, other sets, other cards in the same set to ballpark. Learn how to list a card OBO to let offers roll in. Learn about a thing called the auction format which for any popular card ensures a market-clearing price.

Oh dear, my Optic Gold /10 Mahomes hasn't had a sale in months. What ever shall I do. Well if I really want to know the price there's actually quite a bit as I've explained! But actually, I'm content to let my "illiquid" asset (it's actually not truly illiquid) sit and grow and value. Maybe every now and then whip it out for a flex on the insta because unlike your "liquid" asset it isn't something that you see everyday, on every profile.

Now, liquidity does have benefits if you're trying to manipulate markets. A card that sells everyday is easy to hoard and pump. But this isn't the "virtue" of liquidity that is being touted to impressionable new investors.

"Liquidity" being touted as an argument in favor of base needs to get tossed in the waste bit, alongside "this card has room to grow because look at the (total outlier) Luka prizm pop report!" There are actual arguments for the importance of base--I've even written a post of them. But, yeah, there is virtually nil value to "liquidity" and yet I hear it touted daily as this big important thing that is worth huge premiums.

[Willikn]

Kobe 96 Topps PSA 10 is an iconic card. More condition sensitive than people think. Only 2231 10's against 10557 graded. Very low 21.1% Gem rate.Sounds good compared to a 2019 Luka Prizm. Compared to every other Kobe rookie, not as much.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[discodanman45]

The investment card to have is the Upper Deck Rookie #58 with the shades on his head. I am not saying this because my only two Kobe cards are this one, but it is an iconic card.

[brettmik59]

I think I am going to have to start a thread on "liquidity." This concept is ridiculous. It's a thing that sounds smart because it uses a fancy business term but in actuality it is not smart--quite the opposite actually.

"Oh, liquidity is really important because it means the card is easy to move and you can find comps!"

Finding comps is not that hard. Learn ratios. Learn how to use other players, other sets, other cards in the same set to ballpark. Learn how to list a card OBO to let offers roll in. Learn about a thing called the auction format which for any popular card ensures a market-clearing price.

Agreed 100%. It's like idiocracy come to life. Dudes think that because there are so many Topps RCs printed, that the added "liquidity" should impart extra value on the card. I bet if they printed a million more the PSA 10 might be worth $20k cuz of all that added liquidity!

[jzx1103]

The investment card to have is the Upper Deck Rookie #58 with the shades on his head. I am not saying this because my only two Kobe cards are this one, but it is an iconic card.

Lmao!!! Its ok I diversified my investment. Got at least 2 to 3 copies of each of his Rc (cept Chrome, and loaded up on my favorite RC of his EX 2000 with 7 copies). But the Topps is the first one ill get rid of as soon as I get em back from PSA. I'm just hoping the Topps base prices don't drop too much in the next 2 months. I rather keep the 50th foil version.

[GeechQuest]

I think I am going to have to start a thread on "liquidity." This concept is ridiculous. It's a thing that sounds smart because it uses a fancy business term but in actuality it is not smart--quite the opposite actually.

"Oh, liquidity is really important because it means the card is easy to move and you can find comps!"

Finding comps is not that hard. Learn ratios. Learn how to use other players, other sets, other cards in the same set to ballpark. Learn how to list a card OBO to let offers roll in. Learn about a thing called the auction format which for any popular card ensures a market-clearing price.

Oh dear, my Optic Gold /10 Mahomes hasn't had a sale in months. What ever shall I do. Well if I really want to know the price there's actually quite a bit as I've explained! But actually, I'm content to let my "illiquid" asset (it's actually not truly illiquid) sit and grow and value. Maybe every now and then whip it out for a flex on the insta because unlike your "liquid" asset it isn't something that you see everyday, on every profile.

Now, liquidity does have benefits if you're trying to manipulate markets. A card that sells everyday is easy to hoard and pump. But this isn't the "virtue" of liquidity that is being touted to impressionable new investors.

"Liquidity" being touted as an argument in favor of base needs to get tossed in the waste bit, alongside "this card has room to grow because look at the (total outlier) Luka prizm pop report!" There are actual arguments for the importance of base--I've even written a post of them. But, yeah, there is virtually nil value to "liquidity" and yet I hear it touted daily as this big important thing that is worth huge premiums.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/xLsaBMK6Mg8DK/giphy.gif

I’ve tried to say the exact same thing so many times but never have been able to formulate the thought this coherently.

[BRob1]

Agree with this.

The only people I know who are buying Bass cards are the guys wanting to make cards a stock market. That’s fine by me. They’re all just passing around the same money and it doesn’t have any downside for me.

You have 3 guys: A, B, C

Guy A sells a Luka Bass for $500 to guy B. Guy B sells the same card to guy C for $1K. Guy C sells it back to guy A for $1.5K. Guy A sells it back to Guy B for $2K.

They’re just cycling their money around. It doesn’t hurt me in the slightest. Quite the contrary actually. Cards that may have financially been out of my hobby budget have now become easily attainable because I had rookie bass in my giveaway box. Cards that would have been “free” before now are worth $20-$100 bucks. The rare stuff that I like to purchase hasn’t gone up at the same rate, so my buying power has greatly increased.

Long term I won’t be able to play because I can’t find cheap wax anymore to open and get these bass cards, but I’ve been able to acquire amazing additions thanks to these guys who want to flip bass.

If they want to pay $100s of dollars for 1996 Kobe Topps Paper that cost me under $1 to acquire then be my guest. I’ll supply you and in turn shift that money into cards I would have never been able to justify purchasing before this year. Let them pass the money around to each other.

Where do you put early Prizm basketball (2012 and 2013 specifically) in terms of rare? Not numbered but even base seems relatively rare compared to older topps paper or more current Prizm where print runs have increased.

[armoursave]

None of these cards are rare in the sense they are difficult to find. There are hundreds of the same Lebron, Kobe, MJ’s for sale at any given time. Same card over and over again. Just look in the BST or on EBay. No need to search high and low or open packs. Buy one on your way to work, no worries.

They trade hands dozens of times in their “lives” and each time the transaction establishes their value. It’s easy, everybody knows what these handful of cards look like. Many of them have been graded. Most of them are in pretty good shape. Nobody is getting the wool pulled over their eyes when they make a deal. In a sense these are “boring” cards.

But, and this is important, that quality of being “liquid” is rather uncommon when it comes to collectibles. I know exactly how many Luka Prizms equals how many Kobe Topps equal how many Jordan Fleer equal how many Giannis Prizms. And far more important, everybody knows.

[hauntedcomputer]

I love the "NFS/NFT, what is this worth?"

A: Nothing if you're not buying or selling it.

[asujbl]

I would buy a Kobe Topps right now.

Boom.

I’m as correct as the OP is.

[yaoming]

The question is IF you have some of this, do you sell now or wait till next year? Opinion pls....


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[rats60]

Kobe 96 Topps PSA 10 is an iconic card. More condition sensitive than people think. Only 2231 10's against 10557 graded. Very low 21.1% Gem rate.

And how many 10s will there be when the other 500k get graded? These common paper rookies are the reason PSA is getting even further behind.

[GeechQuest]

The question is IF you have some of this, do you sell now or wait till next year? Opinion pls....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I sold all mine.

If you have multiple copies I have no clue how you don’t sell.

Worst case is the card goes up in value and if you want the card again it costs you. In that scenario the price upgrade is likely offset by the multiple copies that you sold.

Best case is it goes down and you can buy back cheaper than you purchased before.

In both scenarios you make money and get the card back.

[biggieruth]

Kobes Topps 50 anniversary rookie is a very underrated card looks just like the chrome with out the greening.

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[asujbl]

Registry

Same as every thread ever

[Hewty Hoot]

IKR Those dirty ugly vile topps 96 Kobe RC's. How could anyone collect those. PM me and I will make all those Kobe RC's disappear from your trash pile for FREE!!!! :)!

[LeLuka]

Kobes Topps 50 anniversary rookie is a very underrated card looks just like the chrome with out the greening.

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Extremely overrated card if anything. Just a lousy reprint.

[ThoseBackPages]

i would, for $10 in a Fine 9

[lietuvalabas]

i think there are so many more appealing kobe rookie options. but some people really dig the whole plain jane flag ship type card. i implore you to look at the jordan 86-87 fleer card and see how many of those are graded. granted it was either fleer or star for jordan and not the bevy of options kobe had, but that jordan is also one butt ugly card and that sells for a fortune. to each their own i guess.

[biggieruth]

Extremely overrated card if anything. Just a lousy reprint.Why you say that? I heard different among collectors. Can you give me your reason .

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[Beavers98]

i think there are so many more appealing kobe rookie options. but some people really dig the whole plain jane flag ship type card. i implore you to look at the jordan 86-87 fleer card and see how many of those are graded. granted it was either fleer or star for jordan and not the bevy of options kobe had, but that jordan is also one butt ugly card and that sells for a fortune. to each their own i guess.

Wait What? You think the 1986-87 Fleer Jodan is ugly?? You can talk all you want about print run, but ugly. Certainly not.

[ninjacookies]

Sell Kobe pleb bass...buy CJ.

[Jopeal]

i think there are so many more appealing kobe rookie options. but some people really dig the whole plain jane flag ship type card. i implore you to look at the jordan 86-87 fleer card and see how many of those are graded. granted it was either fleer or star for jordan and not the bevy of options kobe had, but that jordan is also one butt ugly card and that sells for a fortune. to each their own i guess.

Until the early 90's, there weren't really options for rookie cards.
We're just now entering into a time where players from the 90's are being considered legends of the past in the hobby.

I think the hobby is still figuring out how to compare players' RC values across generations.
If Michael Jordan is the Gold Standard for NBA players, how much would an MJ Topps Chrome Refractor RC be worth? Or how about if MJ had a Metal PMG RC in 1985 #/100? How would those be valued long term? Difficult to even quantify.

Shaq is probably the first true legend in NBA history to have a plethora of RCs to choose from, followed by Kobe, Duncan, Lebron etc
How this will play out in long-term value remains to be determined as it's still somewhat uncharted territory.

[jzx1103]

Why you say that? I heard different among collectors. Can you give me your reason .

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Pretty sure he's just trolling lol

[LeLuka]

Why you say that? I heard different among collectors. Can you give me your reason .

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Yeah. It’s a reprint. Don’t collectors value originals anymore?

[jzx1103]

Yeah. It’s a reprint. Don’t collectors value originals anymore?

A reprint??? Wtf, its literally a parallel thats inserted into the same packs as the base Topps Rc. Are you just trolling or confused with the Topps Chrome reprints.

[lietuvalabas]

Wait What? You think the 1986-87 Fleer Jodan is ugly?? You can talk all you want about print run, but ugly. Certainly not.

i think we're not going to agree here haha. to each their own though really. that was just my opinion.

[ThoseBackPages]

the star jordan image is quite ugly lol

[glen87]

thanks OP, i will take this card off my "to buy" list :)!

[GatorPie]

Kobe 96 Topps PSA 10 is an iconic card. More condition sensitive than people think. Only 2231 10's against 10557 graded. Very low 21.1% Gem rate.
21.1% is a low gem rate? Maybe for modern cards, but that's a pretty high gem rate for most 90's cards.

I agree that the pricing on that card is absolutely bonkers. Nonsensical. Totally irrational. And I think it will have a massive crash, as the market is going to be absolutely flooded with them over the next year. Can you imagine how many thousands of them are at PSA and BGS right this second?

[LeLuka]

A reprint??? Wtf, its literally a parallel thats inserted into the same packs as the base Topps Rc. Are you just trolling or confused with the Topps Chrome reprints.



It’s a crappy insert. Not a RC.

[jzx1103]

It’s a crappy insert. Not a RC.

Its a parallel of a RC, like refractors vs base, prizm silvers vs base etc. And yes people treat parallel of Rc just as important as Rc.

[LeLuka]

Its a parallel of a RC, like refractors vs base, prizm silvers vs base etc. And yes people treat parallel of Rc just as important as Rc.



Lmao keep trying to justify this card. I was there when it came out. It’s not a RC. It’s a wannabe insert.

[libruary]

This thread is very confused about how awesome the NBA 50 card is.. it's a very difficult pull with so many cards in the set. It's literally the same as prizm parallels, lol. Oh and it's super condition sensitive. To each their own, but if any cards should be worth more than the 96 Topps card, it should be the chrome and the NBA 50 card.

[jzx1103]

Lmao keep trying to justify this card. I was there when it came out. It’s not a RC. It’s a wannabe insert.

join date July 2020 lmao!!! Sure thing buddy!

[LeLuka]

join date July 2020 lmao!!! Sure thing buddy!



Cause clearly forum dates equate to when you started collecting. We get it. You were suckered into buying crappy $5 inserts for hundreds or thousands because you don’t realize you are in your very first bubble.

[jzx1103]

Cause clearly forum dates equate to when you started collecting. We get it. You were suckered into buying crappy $5 inserts for hundreds or thousands because you don’t realize you are in your very first bubble.

This coming from the same guy I see in other threads pumping up Prizm Silver Lukas lmao!!!

[ThoseBackPages]

xZzEzDkeHzI

[biggieruth]

This thread is very confused about how awesome the NBA 50 card is.. it's a very difficult pull with so many cards in the set. It's literally the same as prizm parallels, lol. Oh and it's super condition sensitive. To each their own, but if any cards should be worth more than the 96 Topps card, it should be the chrome and the NBA 50 card.I'm just saying look at the prices of the 50 anniversary Kobe cards. I think their better and should be worth more then the Topps base rookie. I seen thousands of Kobe base rookies . I never seen thousands of his 50 cards period. By the way I bought one of these crappy inserts before the bubble and crazy prices for $30. I like the way the card looked I wish I bought more.

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[biggieruth]

This thread is very confused about how awesome the NBA 50 card is.. it's a very difficult pull with so many cards in the set. It's literally the same as prizm parallels, lol. Oh and it's super condition sensitive. To each their own, but if any cards should be worth more than the 96 Topps card, it should be the chrome and the NBA 50 card.I agree with you Libruary. The date you joining this #@#@#@#@ show as nothing to do with your knowledge of hobby. Their getting mad because nobody is really believing Kobe base graded rookie should be going for these dumb prices. Where messing up their hustle and bringing lite to their bullcrap pump of a base card.

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[jzx1103]

I'm just saying look at the prices of the 50 anniversary Kobe cards. I think their better and should be worth more then the Topps base rookie. I seen thousands of Kobe base rookies . I never seen thousands of his 50 cards period. By the way I bought one of these crappy inserts before the bubble and crazy prices for $30. I like the way the card looked I wish I bought more.

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There are only 600+ Topps 50th anniversary parallels graded by psa vs over 10k copies of base Topps lol. I think they were 1:3 packs or 1:4 packs and you get 9 or 12 per box. I think the Kobe 50th Anniversary comes at about 1:case or so on average. While you average 2 base Rc per box or 20+ per case. Oh also I think the NBA 50th parallels were hobby only, not in retail boxes, so that makes it a even bigger print run difference.

[libruary]

join date July 2020 lmao!!! Sure thing buddy!

I started collecting in 1996 when I was 8 and I have been in and out of the hobby my entire life. Keep it classy my man.

Thanks to those people stickin up for me and my late join date here..

And to the person that said people are just pumping their 1996 base cards, lol.. I feel that's totally true.. these 96 Topps base Kobes are cool but they were never over $15 before he died, then they spiked to $150 that day. Hindsight is 20/20 but it should have been a sign that these would be considered better than they are.

It's so weird having SSP Kobe rookies that are somehow worth less than his base Topps cause of market manipulation

[jzx1103]

It wasn't just his join date but more of his post history and what he said that made me question whether or not he actually collected back in 96 or if he was just trolling. I mean why would you call a parallel set that's made and inserted at the same time as the base Topps a reprint lol (he then later calls it an insert). His argument made absolutely no sense.

[Kingofkings1281]

I started collecting in 1996 when I was 8 and I have been in and out of the hobby my entire life. Keep it classy my man.

Thanks to those people stickin up for me and my late join date here..

And to the person that said people are just pumping their 1996 base cards, lol.. I feel that's totally true.. these 96 Topps base Kobes are cool but they were never over $15 before he died, then they spiked to $150 that day. Hindsight is 20/20 but it should have been a sign that these would be considered better than they are.

It's so weird having SSP Kobe rookies that are somehow worth less than his base Topps cause of market manipulation

Pretty sure everyone knows that’s what’s going on. I’m still good with my chrome, finest, ex-2000, etc. Let people get suckered in. Certainly doesn’t hurt me any.

[bryan2points]

Does anyone have total pop report figure of graded '86 jordan rookies compared to graded '96 kobe rookies?

[jzx1103]

Does anyone have total pop report figure of graded '86 jordan rookies compared to graded '96 kobe rookies?

PSA pop report (total graded)

1986 Fleer Jordan 17,698
1996 Topps Kobe 10,557

However the Fleer Jordan Rc is his only true RC
Kobe has 16 true Rc I believe.
While current players like Luka has 30 different true Rc, I think Lebron has over 40 different Rc as card companies were really busy pumping out different sets that year to cash in on the hype.

[libruary]

PSA pop report

1986 Fleer Jordan 17,698
1996 Topps Kobe 10,557

However the Fleer Jordan Rc is his only true RC
Kobe has 16 true Rc I believe.

There are many Kobe rookies and comparing population numbers are weird.. noone ever wanted to grade Kobe's 1996 topps card until recently cause of the manipulated market. We'll probably see that 10.5k number double within a year, lol..

Also, the thing of 'True rookie' in 1996 didn't seem to be such a concern with collectors before his death. The inserts in 1996 were treated very highly cause they were actually rare..

Oh and the NBA 50 card has 612 population, but that card has always been known in the community as hard-to-pull. The NBA 50 card isn't like 20 times more rare than the base, it is like 100 times..

[2010GBPackers]

True rookies mean nothing. Those touting, "...but, but it's his true rookie" do so for their own benefit. If you're going to cite '86 Fleer, one could argue that isn't Jordan's "true" rookie either. At the end of the day, a 2003 Topps Chrome Lebron base will never be more in demand or valuable than a refractor, black refractor, xfractor, or gold refractor. Deal with it.

[jzx1103]

There are many Kobe rookies and comparing population numbers are weird.. noone ever wanted to grade Kobe's 1996 topps card until recently cause of the manipulated market. We'll probably see that 10.5k number double within a year, lol..

Also, the thing of 'True rookie' in 1996 didn't seem to be such a concern with collectors before his death. The inserts in 1996 were treated very highly cause they were actually rare..

Oh and the NBA 50 card has 612 population, but that card has always been known in the community as hard-to-pull. The NBA 50 card isn't like 20 times more rare than the base, it is like 100 times..

I think alot of the newer collectors don't know much about the NBA@50 Kobe, it was always overshadowed by the Topps Chrome and who knows maybe they also thought it was a reprint like LeLuka did lmao!

[LeLuka]

I think alot of the newer collectors don't know much about the NBA@50 Kobe, it was always overshadowed by the Topps Chrome and who knows maybe they also thought it was a reprint like LeLuka did lmao!


How long are you gonna keep pumping your shitcoins?

[jzx1103]

How long are you gonna keep pumping your shitcoins?

Go learn what a reprint is lol.

[libruary]

I think alot of the newer collectors don't know much about the NBA@50 Kobe, it was always overshadowed by the Topps Chrome and who knows maybe they also thought it was a reprint like LeLuka did lmao!

Maybe people are that clueless..

[rats60]

There are many Kobe rookies and comparing population numbers are weird.. noone ever wanted to grade Kobe's 1996 topps card until recently cause of the manipulated market. We'll probably see that 10.5k number double within a year, lol..

Also, the thing of 'True rookie' in 1996 didn't seem to be such a concern with collectors before his death. The inserts in 1996 were treated very highly cause they were actually rare..

Oh and the NBA 50 card has 612 population, but that card has always been known in the community as hard-to-pull. The NBA 50 card isn't like 20 times more rare than the base, it is like 100 times..

30 times.

[libruary]

30 times.


Yeah I was thinking about it more, if the parallels are 1:3, and 11 cards per pack, then it's like 33 times more rare? Is that math right or what did you use to get to 30?

[jzx1103]

Yeah I was thinking about it more, if the parallels are 1:3, and 11 cards per pack, then it's like 33 times more rare? Is that math right or what did you use to get to 30?

There's also the Hobby box and Retail box factor, Weren't NBA@50 parallels Hobby only?

[libruary]

There's also the Hobby box and Retail box factor, Weren't NBA@50 parallels Hobby only?

Hmm, I kind of forget. I mostly busted boxes of the hobby stuff, I don't recall retail. My only memory of retail was for series 1 which had seethrough backs and my friends would look at what's on the back for the Jordans and 72 win cards. That was in 96'.

[mc1]

There's also the Hobby box and Retail box factor, Weren't NBA@50 parallels Hobby only?

No,retail too.

Packs had 11 cards but 1 was usually an insert or parallel.

So base kobe about every 11 packs and the nba@50 in every 330 packs.

[jzx1103]

No,retail too.

Packs had 11 cards but 1 was usually an insert or parallel.

So base kobe about every 11 packs and the nba@50 in every 330 packs.

Ah that makes sense so it is exactly 30x rarer. I wonder how many out there are still in gradable condition (will receive psa 7 or better)

[libruary]

Ah that makes sense so it is exactly 30x rarer. I wonder how many out there are still in gradable condition (will receive psa 7 or better)

I actually pulled one by the way and gave it to my brother for his bday one year way back. He still has it lol. I pulled it from one of those jumbo packs and it wasn't even perfect out of pack, had a little whitening on the corner.

Anyways, ya 30 times more rare seems about right. So it's like a $30,000 card, jk

[Arianny_Fan]

Cesspool warehouse. Someone call the truck so they can suck the crap out and make room for more.

[CastleBeachCards]

you mean ponzi scheme?
I'll be honest, when "The Last Dance came out............I went through all my MJ's and put the "commons" in a 200 ct box.............now I'm sweating in my garage looking for Kobe. lol (Never imagined this #@#@#@#@ would happen! EVER......let alone 2wice in 1 year)
Pretty Effed up, but I'm STILL not working.........so what the hell?

P.S. I did just find 5 more Kobe topps Rcs today. haha



Don't say the quiet part out loud. This entire pyramid scheme depends upon new money.

[hauntedcomputer]

you mean ponzi scheme?


P.S. I did just find 5 more Kobe topps Rcs today. haha

being pedantic, as one does on message boards because everything is trivial: "With Ponzi schemes, investors give money to a portfolio manager. Then, when they want their money back, they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors. With a pyramid scheme, the initial schemer recruits other investors who in turn recruit other investors and so on."

A pyramid scheme requires the participants to actively find new people to take money from, or "invest." I think we can safely say this is true of cards. We're all hype for the cards we're selling and Gloom and Doom on the cards we want to buy. Most of the hobby is saying "The hobby will expand forever, better get in now, prices will never be lower!"

Good luck pyramiding those Kobes before the crash.

TLDNR version: Anyone who says Kobe Topps RC is a bad investment doesn't have five to sell.

[chuckerrrr]

Back in 2018 I had a PSA 9 of this card listed for $20 plus shipping for about 6 months. Nobody wanted it even at that price.

Then I ran it on Auction and from what I remember it sold for around $15-16.

Crazy what peeps are paying for it now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rats60]

Yeah I was thinking about it more, if the parallels are 1:3, and 11 cards per pack, then it's like 33 times more rare? Is that math right or what did you use to get to 30?

Yes, you also have to factor other inserts, so approximately 30 times.

[libruary]

being pedantic, as one does on message boards because everything is trivial: "With Ponzi schemes, investors give money to a portfolio manager. Then, when they want their money back, they are paid out with the incoming funds contributed by later investors. With a pyramid scheme, the initial schemer recruits other investors who in turn recruit other investors and so on."

A pyramid scheme requires the participants to actively find new people to take money from, or "invest." I think we can safely say this is true of cards. We're all hype for the cards we're selling and Gloom and Doom on the cards we want to buy. Most of the hobby is saying "The hobby will expand forever, better get in now, prices will never be lower!"

Good luck pyramiding those Kobes before the crash.

TLDNR version: Anyone who says Kobe Topps RC is a bad investment doesn't have five to sell.

Funny that you're sticking up for the card and the price, is it because you have five of them? Derp

[Hewty Hoot]

join date July 2020 lmao!!! Sure thing buddy!

Wow so where was Blowout cards when I started collecting in 1982. Gosh I bet I have nothing to add to any conversations here as I just joined. :doh:

[KhalDrogo]

Back in 2018 I had a PSA 9 of this card listed for $20 plus shipping for about 6 months. Nobody wanted it even at that price.

Then I ran it on Auction and from what I remember it sold for around $15-16.

Crazy what peeps are paying for it now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can't tell you how many times I looked at $60 PSA 10s and passed. I bought Finest, Stadium Club, Hoops Gold, and a PSA 9 E-X. And foolishly sold them all for trivial profit.

[jzx1103]

Back in 2018 I had a PSA 9 of this card listed for $20 plus shipping for about 6 months. Nobody wanted it even at that price.

Then I ran it on Auction and from what I remember it sold for around $15-16.

Crazy what peeps are paying for it now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea I think I can safely say no matter what happens to the card industry in the next 10 years, whether its a dip or a crash. This card will never see a $20 price tag again. Unless the Apocalypse happens. It's also not like the Topps Rc is the only one seeing this kind of rise. The Mike Trout Topps Update Rc which also used to be a $10 card is now identical price as the Kobe Topps Rc, The Lebron Topps Rc was also once a $10 card thats now going for $700. I think this rise is a mixture of pumping as well as the general public realizing what a legendary player Kobe was once he passed. So his Topps Rc previous at like $5 to $10 was probably wayyyy undervalued, and probably should've been more like a $50 to $100 card 25 years later. The card did also make the Beckett's best of Kobe Rc list after he passed, so they did some of the pumping too.

[lseecon]

Mike Trout 2011 Topps Update PSA 10----4,973 is current Pop report==currently a $2,500 to $3,000 card

Kobe Bryant 1996 Topps PSA 10-----2,235 is current Pop report


Which player has more world wide popularity.

The posters who think there are thousands and thousands of 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie cards that will be graded 10s soon are flat out wrong. If you are sitting on even a dozen raw Kobe Topps base cards that you think would gem and you were sure the price was set for a fall, you would be sending them in to PSA right now and pay $200 per card for the 5 day express grading and then sell them all for $4,000 to $5,000. But guess what? That is not going to happen. There are not people sitting on hoards of ungraded 1996 Topps Kobes that will grade PSA 10. The card has been selling for well over $1,000 since January 26, when he died. That was 6 month ago. The pop report in 10s has barely budged.

Lets see where the pop report is in in 10 days. That will give all these people claiming they have or others have tens of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe base cards plenty of time to have had them graded at $200 a pop per PSA's 5 day turnaround service. Heck if you have dozens, whey not pay the $500 per card and get your Gem Mint PSA 10 Kobe cards back in ONE day from PSA and then sell them to all the "idiots" for $3,000 to
$6,000 who are overpaying for his iconic rookie base card.

Will people go through their 1996 cards and try and find gem mint Kobe rookie cards? I am sure there will be some of that, but his card prices spiked 6 months ago so they had plenty of time to do that. Why hasnt the number of 10s ballooned over the last 6 months?

While the card is by no means rare, it is condition sensitive and there are alot less raw out there then people think..

Giannis rookies could be had for a few bucks also a few years ago. Same with Luka at the beginning of last year. Same with Lebron and Steph Curry base cards a few years ago.

I think I have seen one picture of someone with about a dozen raw Kobe's that someone was posting on these message boards and most were off-center.

Come on lets see those hundreds of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe cards that are out there just waiting to become PSA 10s.

[LovelyLlamas]

If I recall, you get about three in a box, but good luck on getting that sealed box at this point. These were tricky to get mint out of the pack too. Centering and surface issues as well. People finding these in their garage probably have some wear on them all these years later. Maybe they were sitting in 5000 count boxes with or without a penny sleeve? I don’t predict a meteoric rise in gem 10’s just because every Tom dick and Harry stumbles upon these in their collections.

I personally despise the whole grading scene but these are no worse “investments” than people paying thousands for Zion rookies or other new guys who haven’t proven jack yet.

[jzx1103]

Mike Trout 2011 Topps Update PSA 10----4,973 is current Pop report==currently a $2,500 to $3,000 card

Kobe Bryant 1996 Topps PSA 10-----2,235 is current Pop report


Which player has more world wide popularity

I think this is the one thing alot of American collectors don't realize. For example in China (a country of 1.6 billion people) or asia in general. The most popular NBA player ever is not Yao, or Jordan, its actually Kobe. He is absolutely huge in China. I also see many Americans who think the chinese cant afford basketball cards at current prices (or even older prices) because they still think of China as a much poorer country than U.S., in reality, while the average wealth of chinese citizens are lower than U.S. citizens. there are actually more individual wealthy people in China than in the U.S. due to its sheer population. And basketball cards are absolutely huge in China. Remember Chinese buyers were also the driving force that cause Jordan 90s inserts and Bulls autos to skyrocket back in 2011. Its also probably why the basketball cards market is seeing a even bigger boom currently than baseball and football cards. Chinese people also have a huge "investment " mentality and are willing to gamble. they don't ever let their money just sit in banks. The popular thing used to be invest in real estate, maybe some of that money has moved to basketball cards.

[3124508 on COMC]

Mike Trout 2011 Topps Update PSA 10----4,973 is current Pop report==currently a $2,500 to $3,000 card

Kobe Bryant 1996 Topps PSA 10-----2,235 is current Pop report


Which player has more world wide popularity.

The posters who think there are thousands and thousands of 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie cards that will be graded 10s soon are flat out wrong. If you are sitting on even a dozen raw Kobe Topps base cards that you think would gem and you were sure the price was set for a fall, you would be sending them in to PSA right now and pay $200 per card for the 5 day express grading and then sell them all for $4,000 to $5,000. But guess what? That is not going to happen. There are not people sitting on hoards of ungraded 1996 Topps Kobes that will grade PSA 10. The card has been selling for well over $1,000 since January 26, when he died. That was 6 month ago. The pop report in 10s has barely budged.

Lets see where the pop report is in in 10 days. That will give all these people claiming they have or others have tens of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe base cards plenty of time to have had them graded at $200 a pop per PSA's 5 day turnaround service. Heck if you have dozens, whey not pay the $500 per card and get your Gem Mint PSA 10 Kobe cards back in ONE day from PSA and then sell them to all the "idiots" for $3,000 to
$6,000 who are overpaying for his iconic rookie base card.

Will people go through their 1996 cards and try and find gem mint Kobe rookie cards? I am sure there will be some of that, but his card prices spiked 6 months ago so they had plenty of time to do that. Why hasnt the number of 10s ballooned over the last 6 months?

While the card is by no means rare, it is condition sensitive and there are alot less raw out there then people think..

Giannis rookies could be had for a few bucks also a few years ago. Same with Luka at the beginning of last year. Same with Lebron and Steph Curry base cards a few years ago.

I think I have seen one picture of someone with about a dozen raw Kobe's that someone was posting on these message boards and most were off-center.

Come on lets see those hundreds of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe cards that are out there just waiting to become PSA 10s.

Just trim them up and you’re good to go!

[rats60]

Mike Trout 2011 Topps Update PSA 10----4,973 is current Pop report==currently a $2,500 to $3,000 card

Kobe Bryant 1996 Topps PSA 10-----2,235 is current Pop report


Which player has more world wide popularity.

The posters who think there are thousands and thousands of 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie cards that will be graded 10s soon are flat out wrong. If you are sitting on even a dozen raw Kobe Topps base cards that you think would gem and you were sure the price was set for a fall, you would be sending them in to PSA right now and pay $200 per card for the 5 day express grading and then sell them all for $4,000 to $5,000. But guess what? That is not going to happen. There are not people sitting on hoards of ungraded 1996 Topps Kobes that will grade PSA 10. The card has been selling for well over $1,000 since January 26, when he died. That was 6 month ago. The pop report in 10s has barely budged.

Lets see where the pop report is in in 10 days. That will give all these people claiming they have or others have tens of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe base cards plenty of time to have had them graded at $200 a pop per PSA's 5 day turnaround service. Heck if you have dozens, whey not pay the $500 per card and get your Gem Mint PSA 10 Kobe cards back in ONE day from PSA and then sell them to all the "idiots" for $3,000 to
$6,000 who are overpaying for his iconic rookie base card.

Will people go through their 1996 cards and try and find gem mint Kobe rookie cards? I am sure there will be some of that, but his card prices spiked 6 months ago so they had plenty of time to do that. Why hasnt the number of 10s ballooned over the last 6 months?

While the card is by no means rare, it is condition sensitive and there are alot less raw out there then people think..

Giannis rookies could be had for a few bucks also a few years ago. Same with Luka at the beginning of last year. Same with Lebron and Steph Curry base cards a few years ago.

I think I have seen one picture of someone with about a dozen raw Kobe's that someone was posting on these message boards and most were off-center.

Come on lets see those hundreds of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe cards that are out there just waiting to become PSA 10s.

How many Trouts were graded when it was a 10.00 card. The Topps Kobe was 15 when he passed. People who sent them in then are still waiting for them to come back unless they sent them express. Keep fooling yourself thinking this is a rare card. You must not have been in the hobby in the late 90s. That was the junk wax era for basketball. Everyone was buying as much basketball as they could get. That is not true for 2011 baseball. The Trout is much rather than the Kobe which was 3-4 per box in a mass produced product. There are tens of thousands of these sitting in boxes of people long out of the hobby.

[jzx1103]

How many Trouts were graded when it was a 10.00 card. The Topps Kobe was 15 when he passed. People who sent them in then are still waiting for them to come back unless they sent them express. Keep fooling yourself thinking this is a rare card. You must not have been in the hobby in the late 90s. That was the junk wax era for basketball. Everyone was buying as much basketball as they could get. That is not true for 2011 baseball. The Trout is much rather than the Kobe which was 3-4 per box in a mass produced product. There are tens of thousands of these sitting in boxes of people long out of the hobby.

Actually the late 90s is technically already out of the junk wax period. Thats why you can hardly find sealed boxes of anything unlike from the 80s to early 90s.

[lseecon]

Ok. Rats. lets see your hoard of 1996 topps kobe rookies? You simply are just spouting crap you have no facts to back up. I have been collecting since 1975. So yes I was around in 1996.

The card has been selling for over $1000 for six months and the pop report has barely budged.

Keep telling yourself there will be thousands of freshly graded PSA 10s if that makes you feel better and makes you feel like you did the right thing by either never buying one or selling any that you had.

[Willikn]

DO NOT LOOK BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

Part one of strategy. Find new card, any newer card, that allows you to avoid comparing super rare paper Topps Kobe with any 1996 card. Preferably 2018 or 2019 Prizm card, but go for Trout update if need be. See! Is rare and epic and iconic and rare.

If anyone says, "Even the stupid Collector's Choice is harder to find than that paper Topps.." Ignore that person and post more sentences containing the word iconic.

If someone says, "Yeah, but the paper Topps is stupid and ugly. The EX is a work of art." Try to convince them that the EX isn't really a rookie card.

Final step, sell some paper Topps Kobe rookies. We need buyers folks.

[Bob Ross]

Mike Trout 2011 Topps Update PSA 10----4,973 is current Pop report==currently a $2,500 to $3,000 card

Kobe Bryant 1996 Topps PSA 10-----2,235 is current Pop report


Which player has more world wide popularity.

The posters who think there are thousands and thousands of 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie cards that will be graded 10s soon are flat out wrong. If you are sitting on even a dozen raw Kobe Topps base cards that you think would gem and you were sure the price was set for a fall, you would be sending them in to PSA right now and pay $200 per card for the 5 day express grading and then sell them all for $4,000 to $5,000. But guess what? That is not going to happen. There are not people sitting on hoards of ungraded 1996 Topps Kobes that will grade PSA 10. The card has been selling for well over $1,000 since January 26, when he died. That was 6 month ago. The pop report in 10s has barely budged.

Lets see where the pop report is in in 10 days. That will give all these people claiming they have or others have tens of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe base cards plenty of time to have had them graded at $200 a pop per PSA's 5 day turnaround service. Heck if you have dozens, whey not pay the $500 per card and get your Gem Mint PSA 10 Kobe cards back in ONE day from PSA and then sell them to all the "idiots" for $3,000 to
$6,000 who are overpaying for his iconic rookie base card.

Will people go through their 1996 cards and try and find gem mint Kobe rookie cards? I am sure there will be some of that, but his card prices spiked 6 months ago so they had plenty of time to do that. Why hasnt the number of 10s ballooned over the last 6 months?

While the card is by no means rare, it is condition sensitive and there are alot less raw out there then people think..

Giannis rookies could be had for a few bucks also a few years ago. Same with Luka at the beginning of last year. Same with Lebron and Steph Curry base cards a few years ago.

I think I have seen one picture of someone with about a dozen raw Kobe's that someone was posting on these message boards and most were off-center.

Come on lets see those hundreds of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe cards that are out there just waiting to become PSA 10s.

This is the most logical post in this entire thread.

[3124508 on COMC]

DO NOT LOOK BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

Part one of strategy. Find new card, any newer card, that allows you to avoid comparing super rare paper Topps Kobe with any 1996 card. Preferably 2018 or 2019 Prizm card, but go for Trout update if need be. See! Is rare and epic and iconic and rare.

If anyone says, "Even the stupid Collector's Choice is harder to find than that paper Topps.." Ignore that person and post more sentences containing the word iconic.

If someone says, "Yeah, but the paper Topps is stupid and ugly. The EX is a work of art." Try to convince them that the EX isn't really a rookie card.

Final step, sell some paper Topps Kobe rookies. We need buyers folks.

Then the next step is to find a new card even more mass produced than the Topps Kobe to which you can then use the Topps Kobe as a basis for comparison...

For example, why aren’t Shaq Topps rookies $100? Just look at the price of Kobe Topps rookies! Buy! Buy! Buy!

[jzx1103]

Slightly off topic, but is collecting different PSA grades an actual thing? I'm seeing a PSA 5 and PSA 6 EX 2000 Kobe Rc currently at much higher prices than I anticipated. The PSA 5 is at $700 already still with a day left. PSA 8s currently goes for $450 to $500 so I was wondering whats going on. I figured either its shilling or theres specific people battling over PSA 5 and PSA 6 since very few were graded those grades and they rarely pop up for sale.

[jzx1103]

Then the next step is to find a new card even more mass produced than the Topps Kobe to which you can then use the Topps Kobe as a basis for comparison...

For example, why aren’t Shaq Topps rookies $100? Just look at the price of Kobe Topps rookies! Buy! Buy! Buy!

won't work for Shaq, he's nowhere near as popular. Especially overseas. The Shaq Topps Rc is actually still during the Junkwax era. Also I just realized there are over 120k UD Griffey Jr Rc graded. Holy cow!

[BLongley]

won't work for Shaq, he's nowhere near as popular. Especially overseas. The Shaq Topps Rc is actually still during the Junkwax era. Also I just realized there are over 120k UD Griffey Jr Rc graded. Holy cow!

And yet there are only 1,660 Shaq PSA 10 Topps.... interesting the pop is so low... maybe they weren’t subbed for awhile because they weren’t worth as much but suddenly they just exploded to over $700 in the past few days! :eek:

[libruary]

Those pumpers in here are so silly.

Keep trying to prove a 1996 Topps base cards is rare at all. I know people that have sat on those Kobe's forever and still haven't graded them. I have busted several boxes of these and all of mine came with perfect centering, most of the cards did, perhaps I got lucky?

The simplest explanation is that the card is super mass produced and the fact that this was a $10 card for over ten years has affected the population reports. Those with the card are showing up in this thread to manipulate people into buying their terrible investment card.

Quote me in a year, baby

[asujbl]

Shaq Topps PSA 10 went for $750 this morning

That’s pretty good

[shootit]

I think I am going to have to start a thread on "liquidity." This concept is ridiculous. It's a thing that sounds smart because it uses a fancy business term but in actuality it is not smart--quite the opposite actually.

"Oh, liquidity is really important because it means the card is easy to move and you can find comps!"

Finding comps is not that hard. Learn ratios. Learn how to use other players, other sets, other cards in the same set to ballpark. Learn how to list a card OBO to let offers roll in. Learn about a thing called the auction format which for any popular card ensures a market-clearing price.

Oh dear, my Optic Gold /10 Mahomes hasn't had a sale in months. What ever shall I do. Well if I really want to know the price there's actually quite a bit as I've explained! But actually, I'm content to let my "illiquid" asset (it's actually not truly illiquid) sit and grow and value. Maybe every now and then whip it out for a flex on the insta because unlike your "liquid" asset it isn't something that you see everyday, on every profile.

Now, liquidity does have benefits if you're trying to manipulate markets. A card that sells everyday is easy to hoard and pump. But this isn't the "virtue" of liquidity that is being touted to impressionable new investors.

"Liquidity" being touted as an argument in favor of base needs to get tossed in the waste bit, alongside "this card has room to grow because look at the (total outlier) Luka prizm pop report!" There are actual arguments for the importance of base--I've even written a post of them. But, yeah, there is virtually nil value to "liquidity" and yet I hear it touted daily as this big important thing that is worth huge premiums.


Wasn’t talking about liquidity exactly in that sense of easy to move and finding comps

More so of if I wanted to invest in 100-500x of a single card right away I wouldn’t be able to wit rarer, sp n serial number. I could do that wit a bass card

So that’s what I mean when I say the market values liquidity over scarcity and it shows in the price


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThoseBackPages]

BO gonna BO!

[armoursave]

Slightly off topic, but is collecting different PSA grades an actual thing? I'm seeing a PSA 5 and PSA 6 EX 2000 Kobe Rc currently at much higher prices than I anticipated. The PSA 5 is at $700 already still with a day left. PSA 8s currently goes for $450 to $500 so I was wondering whats going on. I figured either its shilling or theres specific people battling over PSA 5 and PSA 6 since very few were graded those grades and they rarely pop up for sale.

Not sure what you mean but I usually target 8-9 BGS/PSA when buying. The card is usually much cheaper than it should be whereas the 9.5/10 is more expensive than it ought to be. As the 9.5/10 rises it will drag up the rest.

[jzx1103]

Not sure what you mean but I usually target 8-9 BGS/PSA when buying. The card is usually much cheaper than it should be whereas the 9.5/10 is more expensive than it ought to be. As the 9.5/10 rises it will drag up the rest.

So basically I heard some collectors want to collect 1 of each psa grade of a specific card. Like they want a psa 10, a psa 9, a psa 8 etc...typically psa 8s and 9s has the most amount of population. However very few people submit cards thats below psa 7s for grading and they rarely come up for sale. So I'm wondering if the reason why the psa 5 Kobe ex2000 is currently $700 on Ebay when psa 8s can be had for $200 cheaper is because two of these type of collectors are fighting over it to add it to their collection.

[lseecon]

Those pumpers in here are so silly.

Keep trying to prove a 1996 Topps base cards is rare at all. I know people that have sat on those Kobe's forever and still haven't graded them. I have busted several boxes of these and all of mine came with perfect centering, most of the cards did, perhaps I got lucky?

The simplest explanation is that the card is super mass produced and the fact that this was a $10 card for over ten years has affected the population reports. Those with the card are showing up in this thread to manipulate people into buying their terrible investment card.

Quote me in a year, baby


This will be my last post on this topic. When you read just moronic and dumb posts you feel a need to reply and that's why i have been replying. Heck I didnt even like Kobe Bryant as a player and questioned his ethics and lifestyle after the rape allegations. But he certainly was one of the greatest players of his generation and had/has a worldwide following.

1. Nobody is claiming his 1996 Topps base rookie is rare. I don't think any card printed in excess of 1000 copies is rare and that would be 99.99% of all sports cards printed in the last 50 years.

2. Just because raw copies could be bought for $10 raw for the last 10 years is meaningless. The card in a PSA 10 has been selling for at least $75 to $100 for the last 20 years. If those raw copies were gem mint quality, and someone was sitting on a stack of 100 copies they would have paid $6 per card for a bulk submission to PSA and then sold each of them for a net profit of at least $50 per card or $5,000 for 100 cards. Clearly if that was the case, the number of 10s would have been much much higher over years. Nobody has hundreds of gem mint base Kobe's ungraded sitting around. Ok maybe one or two super collectors/hoarders do but those cards wont see the light of day anytime soon.

3. Its funny how the posters who want to bash the 1996 Topps Kobe keep claiming that there are tens of thousands of raw copies just waiting to be graded, but its not themselves that have those stacks of raw copies, its always "some one" else or "some body I know." If gem mint raw copies are so plentiful and abundant then how come all the "experts" who keep chiming in don't seem to have any?

4. If you want to state your opinion that you think the card is overpriced, fine, maybe it is. But if you compare the population report, the popularity of the player and the current prices of similar iconic athlete's base rookie cards, its current price seems quite reasonable. Perhaps all cards are overpriced and if they drop 50% so will this Kobe.

5. Whats with all the whiners and the "i need a participation trophy crowd" who wont stop with the "But my Topps Finest coating on super refractor 50th anniversary Kobe rookie is much more rare than the base rookie so it has to be worth more" Can we get one more post from one of those folks trying to pump their cards. Who really is doing the pumping? I dont see any recent "buy Kobe base 1996 PSA 10 rookie card" threads? But I do see multiple threads about "dont buy that 1996 Kobe base card because its not as rare as this one or that one...the ones that I invested in/collected" Again...who are the pumpers or manipulators?

5. I am not a pumper. I am not a price manipulator. I am card collector who for 45 years has been trying to accumulate a rookie card collection of HOF players from the 3 major sports. Many of these cards are now out of my comfortable price range. Fortunately I bought many when they were much cheaper (including yes, this Kobe, the Bird/Magic rookie, the 86 Jordan, the Dr J rookie, and hundreds of other baseball and football cards). Of course I waited too long on many others. I missed out on the Trout rookie and the Giannis rookie. Kept saying when Trout rookie went from $100 to $200 that it was crazy for it to cost so much. I remember being able to buy all the 2011 topps update packs I wanted in my local card store and at Target so why should it sell for $200 in a PSA 10. Plus there were thousands graded. Then it crossed $500 and was still shaking my head. Then $1,000 and figured when it dips back to $500 or below I will pick one up. Now its at $2,500 and I still dont have one. Is it a rare card. Of course not. That same thing is happening with hundreds if not thousands of basketball card collectors with respect to the 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie. Is it rare? No? Is it condition sensitive. Yes, in fact much more so than the Trout rookie and all of the 2018 and 2019 rookie cards.

5. If you have a half a brain and can think logically and know how grading cards works, you know there are not going to suddenly appear thousands and thousands of PSA 10 Kobe Bryant Topps rookies on the pop report. They just dont exist in quantity in true gem mint quality. People grade cards if they can think they can make a quick $10. The Kobe card in 10 always was priced high enough were if you could buy a raw one for $5 or $10 and get it graded a 10 you could flip it and make three to four times your money. That ship has sailed. If not in the past 20 years, then certainly in the past year. Even before he died and before the card price explosion this year, his PSA 10 was selling for $150 to $200. Most of the raw copies that could gem have long been graded. Could we see an explosion of graded 10s? Perhaps another 1,000 get added to the mix over the next few months? I think that is highly unlikely but even if happens, there would still be less 10s than the Trout and Luka, Griffey, and a host of others. Could prices drop, sure, but it wont be because of an explosion of newly graded PSA 10s. That wont happen. Perhaps demand overall drops, but supply is not going to explode like all these posters and uniformed people keep suggesting.

[3124508 on COMC]

This will be my last post on this topic. When you read just moronic and dumb posts you feel a need to reply and that's why i have been replying. Heck I didnt even like Kobe Bryant as a player and questioned his ethics and lifestyle after the rape allegations. But he certainly was one of the greatest players of his generation and had/has a worldwide following.

1. Nobody is claiming his 1996 Topps base rookie is rare. I don't think any card printed in excess of 1000 copies is rare and that would be 99.99% of all sports cards printed in the last 50 years.

2. Just because raw copies could be bought for $10 raw for the last 10 years is meaningless. The card in a PSA 10 has been selling for at least $75 to $100 for the last 20 years. If those raw copies were gem mint quality, and someone was sitting on a stack of 100 copies they would have paid $6 per card for a bulk submission to PSA and then sold each of them for a net profit of at least $50 per card or $5,000 for 100 cards. Clearly if that was the case, the number of 10s would have been much much higher over years. Nobody has hundreds of gem mint base Kobe's ungraded sitting around. Ok maybe one or two super collectors/hoarders do but those cards wont see the light of day anytime soon.

3. Its funny how the posters who want to bash the 1996 Topps Kobe keep claiming that there are tens of thousands of raw copies just waiting to be graded, but its not themselves that have those stacks of raw copies, its always "some one" else or "some body I know." If gem mint raw copies are so plentiful and abundant then how come all the "experts" who keep chiming in don't seem to have any?

4. If you want to state your opinion that you think the card is overpriced, fine, maybe it is. But if you compare the population report, the popularity of the player and the current prices of similar iconic athlete's base rookie cards, its current price seems quite reasonable. Perhaps all cards are overpriced and if they drop 50% so will this Kobe.

5. Whats with all the whiners and the "i need a participation trophy crowd" who wont stop with the "But my Topps Finest coating on super refractor 50th anniversary Kobe rookie is much more rare than the base rookie so it has to be worth more" Can we get one more post from one of those folks trying to pump their cards. Who really is doing the pumping? I dont see any recent "buy Kobe base 1996 PSA 10 rookie card" threads? But I do see multiple threads about "dont buy that 1996 Kobe base card because its not as rare as this one or that one...the ones that I invested in/collected" Again...who are the pumpers or manipulators?

5. I am not a pumper. I am not a price manipulator. I am card collector who for 45 years has been trying to accumulate a rookie card collection of HOF players from the 3 major sports. Many of these cards are now out of my comfortable price range. Fortunately I bought many when they were much cheaper (including yes, this Kobe, the Bird/Magic rookie, the 86 Jordan, the Dr J rookie, and hundreds of other baseball and football cards). Of course I waited too long on many others. I missed out on the Trout rookie and the Giannis rookie. Kept saying when Trout rookie went from $100 to $200 that it was crazy for it to cost so much. I remember being able to buy all the 2011 topps update packs I wanted in my local card store and at Target so why should it sell for $200 in a PSA 10. Plus there were thousands graded. Then it crossed $500 and was still shaking my head. Then $1,000 and figured when it dips back to $500 or below I will pick one up. Now its at $2,500 and I still dont have one. Is it a rare card. Of course not. That same thing is happening with hundreds if not thousands of basketball card collectors with respect to the 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie. Is it rare? No? Is it condition sensitive. Yes, in fact much more so than the Trout rookie and all of the 2018 and 2019 rookie cards.

5. If you have a half a brain and can think logically and know how grading cards works, you know there are not going to suddenly appear thousands and thousands of PSA 10 Kobe Bryant Topps rookies on the pop report. They just dont exist in quantity in true gem mint quality. People grade cards if they can think they can make a quick $10. The Kobe card in 10 always was priced high enough were if you could buy a raw one for $5 or $10 and get it graded a 10 you could flip it and make three to four times your money. That ship has sailed. If not in the past 20 years, then certainly in the past year. Even before he died and before the card price explosion this year, his PSA 10 was selling for $150 to $200. Most of the raw copies that could gem have long been graded. Could we see an explosion of graded 10s? Perhaps another 1,000 get added to the mix over the next few months? I think that is highly unlikely but even if happens, there would still be less 10s than the Trout and Luka, Griffey, and a host of others. Could prices drop, sure, but it wont be because of an explosion of newly graded PSA 10s. That wont happen. Perhaps demand overall drops, but supply is not going to explode like all these posters and uniformed people keep suggesting.

If that’s the case how do Probstein and PWCC have an endless supply of newly graded PSA 8s,9s, and 10s from the 50s-70s? :confused::confused:

[jzx1103]

I do agree that I haven't personally see anyone on social media pump this Topps Kobe Rc unlike the Prizm Zions, Lukas, Ja's, Tatums and all the lesser rookies which are constantly being pumped by various online sports card investors. Which is actually why when this particular card rose dramatically in the past 2 months, it came as a surprise to everyone and then people started to come to the conclusion oh it must be the pumpers. The card wasn't really even talked about prior to the rise in price unlike all the other stuff. The only thing I saw thus far was an article from Beckett putting this Topps Rc among the must buy Kobe Rc after his death along with the Chrome and Ex 2000. Also while everyone is focused on this card being overpriced, look at what's happening to his 97/98 Topps base, thats even crazier imo. Whose been pumping up that one?

[rats60]

Actually the late 90s is technically already out of the junk wax period. Thats why you can hardly find sealed boxes of anything unlike from the 80s to early 90s.

For baseball. For basketball production was much higher in the late 90s than the early 90s.

[jzx1103]

For baseball. For basketball production was much higher in the late 90s than the early 90s.

Think you're just randomly throwing out statements at this point lol. There are literally still tons of 80s baseball boxes and cases just sitting around that no one wants and early 90s Basketball boxes that can still be found easily for cheap. While late 90s basketball stuff have all dried up for years with individual boxes here or there going up for auction every now and then that fetches thousands of dollars. So the evidence does not support your statement. And as I stated before there are over 120k 1990 UD Ken Griffey Jr Rc graded. No basketball Rc from the late 90s even come close to that.

[mc1]

For baseball. For basketball production was much higher in the late 90s than the early 90s.

I dont think so.

By 98-99 There were more products probaby.You cant tell me Hoops, Upper Deck and Skybox from 90-93 were more limited than in the late 90s.

[mc1]

3. Its funny how the posters who want to bash the 1996 Topps Kobe keep claiming that there are tens of thousands of raw copies just waiting to be graded, but its not themselves that have those stacks of raw copies, its always "some one" else or "some body I know." If gem mint raw copies are so plentiful and abundant then how come all the "experts" who keep chiming in don't seem to have any?



My LCS owner did have 20+ raw copies he got from a couple of collections hes bought this year. He also had a nba@50 copy. He wasnt willing to sell any them raw and said hed be grading them.

On another note, he also had 5-6 Lebron Topps and sold those for book price a couple months back. Guy should have graded those too.

[jzx1103]

One product you can easily do a calculation on is the 96/97 Hoops basketball, which is also one of the cheaper products with more print runs. There are roughly 9000 96/97 Hoops hobby cases made. Which is nowhere near the number of cases of 80s and early 90s junk wax (estimated to have over 100,000 cases made) How did I come up with that number for Hoops? because the Insert Grants All Rookies 1:360 packs has a print run of 996 copies, and there were 11 cards in the set. After that the math was easy.

[rats60]

This will be my last post on this topic. When you read just moronic and dumb posts you feel a need to reply and that's why i have been replying. Heck I didnt even like Kobe Bryant as a player and questioned his ethics and lifestyle after the rape allegations. But he certainly was one of the greatest players of his generation and had/has a worldwide following.

1. Nobody is claiming his 1996 Topps base rookie is rare. I don't think any card printed in excess of 1000 copies is rare and that would be 99.99% of all sports cards printed in the last 50 years.

2. Just because raw copies could be bought for $10 raw for the last 10 years is meaningless. The card in a PSA 10 has been selling for at least $75 to $100 for the last 20 years. If those raw copies were gem mint quality, and someone was sitting on a stack of 100 copies they would have paid $6 per card for a bulk submission to PSA and then sold each of them for a net profit of at least $50 per card or $5,000 for 100 cards. Clearly if that was the case, the number of 10s would have been much much higher over years. Nobody has hundreds of gem mint base Kobe's ungraded sitting around. Ok maybe one or two super collectors/hoarders do but those cards wont see the light of day anytime soon.

3. Its funny how the posters who want to bash the 1996 Topps Kobe keep claiming that there are tens of thousands of raw copies just waiting to be graded, but its not themselves that have those stacks of raw copies, its always "some one" else or "some body I know." If gem mint raw copies are so plentiful and abundant then how come all the "experts" who keep chiming in don't seem to have any?

4. If you want to state your opinion that you think the card is overpriced, fine, maybe it is. But if you compare the population report, the popularity of the player and the current prices of similar iconic athlete's base rookie cards, its current price seems quite reasonable. Perhaps all cards are overpriced and if they drop 50% so will this Kobe.

5. Whats with all the whiners and the "i need a participation trophy crowd" who wont stop with the "But my Topps Finest coating on super refractor 50th anniversary Kobe rookie is much more rare than the base rookie so it has to be worth more" Can we get one more post from one of those folks trying to pump their cards. Who really is doing the pumping? I dont see any recent "buy Kobe base 1996 PSA 10 rookie card" threads? But I do see multiple threads about "dont buy that 1996 Kobe base card because its not as rare as this one or that one...the ones that I invested in/collected" Again...who are the pumpers or manipulators?

5. I am not a pumper. I am not a price manipulator. I am card collector who for 45 years has been trying to accumulate a rookie card collection of HOF players from the 3 major sports. Many of these cards are now out of my comfortable price range. Fortunately I bought many when they were much cheaper (including yes, this Kobe, the Bird/Magic rookie, the 86 Jordan, the Dr J rookie, and hundreds of other baseball and football cards). Of course I waited too long on many others. I missed out on the Trout rookie and the Giannis rookie. Kept saying when Trout rookie went from $100 to $200 that it was crazy for it to cost so much. I remember being able to buy all the 2011 topps update packs I wanted in my local card store and at Target so why should it sell for $200 in a PSA 10. Plus there were thousands graded. Then it crossed $500 and was still shaking my head. Then $1,000 and figured when it dips back to $500 or below I will pick one up. Now its at $2,500 and I still dont have one. Is it a rare card. Of course not. That same thing is happening with hundreds if not thousands of basketball card collectors with respect to the 1996 Kobe Bryant rookie. Is it rare? No? Is it condition sensitive. Yes, in fact much more so than the Trout rookie and all of the 2018 and 2019 rookie cards.

5. If you have a half a brain and can think logically and know how grading cards works, you know there are not going to suddenly appear thousands and thousands of PSA 10 Kobe Bryant Topps rookies on the pop report. They just dont exist in quantity in true gem mint quality. People grade cards if they can think they can make a quick $10. The Kobe card in 10 always was priced high enough were if you could buy a raw one for $5 or $10 and get it graded a 10 you could flip it and make three to four times your money. That ship has sailed. If not in the past 20 years, then certainly in the past year. Even before he died and before the card price explosion this year, his PSA 10 was selling for $150 to $200. Most of the raw copies that could gem have long been graded. Could we see an explosion of graded 10s? Perhaps another 1,000 get added to the mix over the next few months? I think that is highly unlikely but even if happens, there would still be less 10s than the Trout and Luka, Griffey, and a host of others. Could prices drop, sure, but it wont be because of an explosion of newly graded PSA 10s. That wont happen. Perhaps demand overall drops, but supply is not going to explode like all these posters and uniformed people keep suggesting.

Keep posing your nonsense. PSA 10 Kobe RC populations
Bowman’s Best 1141
Collectors Choice 349
Finest 2531
Showcase 58
Fleer 253
Hoops 436
Metal 114
EX2000 22
Skybox 541
ZForce 200
SP 858
Stadium 223
Topps 2235
Ultra 288
Upper Deck 726

If Topps is so rare and hard to grade, why are the pops on other paper RCs so low compared to the Topps? Most collectors from the 90s don’t grade their base. It is easy to say make x dollars grading and getting 10s, but the flip side is lose money when they come back 9 and sell at raw price. This grade all your base RCs is a new phenomena with today’s collectors. And we haven’t addressed the elephant in the room. What happens to the pop when the card doctors target this card and start turning raw and 9s into 10s. At today’s price and if the price holds, it is just a matter of when.

[jzx1103]

lol I don't think he ever said the Topps is rare, but in today's wierd hobby market rarity might not mean as much anymore. Look at how much every prizm base rookies are going for. I wouldn't actually be surprised if we find out later there are more Luka and Zion prizms printed than the Topps Kobe. Yet its everyone's go to RC.

[rats60]

Think you're just randomly throwing out statements at this point lol. There are literally still tons of 80s baseball boxes and cases just sitting around that no one wants and early 90s Basketball boxes that can still be found easily for cheap. While late 90s basketball stuff have all dried up for years with individual boxes here or there going up for auction every now and then that fetches thousands of dollars. So the evidence does not support your statement. And as I stated before there are over 120k 1990 UD Ken Griffey Jr Rc graded. No basketball Rc from the late 90s even come close to that.

There was no demand for basketball prior to 92/93 series 2. The most popular card from that period was the David Robinson RC. 5970 total graded compare that to the 10752 Kobe Topps that have been graded and watch that number soar in the next year. Just because sealed wax is hard to find doesn’t mean there wasn’t more made. It was very popular in 1996 with the deep rookie class and little unopened survived. That supply had diminished over the last 24 years due to the chase for RCs and inserts. Early 90s boxes have no valuable RCs or inserts. Why would anyone open it up? It didn’t even sell well when new.

[MyckKabongo]

People greatly overestimate the degree to which gradable low end stuff from the 90s has been graded. Have 9.5/10s fetched a premium that would justify grading for a long time? Yes.... but catching a 9 or heaven forbid an 8 usually meant you lost money. It wasn't until very recently that it made sense to take on that risk for a whole lot of cards.

Not everyone in this hobby fancies themselves an eagle eye or is spending hours going through 5000 ct boxes of low end base with a loupe and microfiber and subbing every possible 10. A lot of people still don't grade period.

Condition sensitive, higher end stuff is a different story. But a card that until fairly recently was considered 5-10 dollar box fodder? I'll take the bet that there are still plenty of raw gems. Let me caveat that it wouldn't surprise me if PSA pop controls this going forward.

[GeechQuest]

People greatly overestimate the degree to which gradable low end stuff from the 90s has been graded. Have 9.5/10s fetched a premium that would justify grading for a long time? Yes.... but catching a 9 or heaven forbid an 8 usually meant you lost money. It wasn't until very recently that it made sense to take on that risk for a whole lot of cards.

Not everyone in this hobby fancies themselves an eagle eye or is spending hours going through 5000 ct boxes of low end base with a loupe and microfiber and subbing every possible 10. A lot of people still don't grade period.

Condition sensitive, higher end stuff is a different story. But a card that until fairly recently was considered 5-10 dollar box fodder? I'll take the bet that there are still plenty of raw gems. Let me caveat that it wouldn't surprise me if PSA pop controls this going forward.

Wait a minute, you’re telling me the card that was fetching $25-$30 in a PSA 9 days before Kobe’s unfortunate crash and would barely net any profit wasn’t being graded???

The same Kobe PSA 9 that didn’t break $10 consistently until 15 years after release?

You think THAT’S the reason people weren’t grading these in bulk????

Big if true!

[TheGZA]

Not everyone in this hobby fancies themselves an eagle eye or is spending hours going through 5000 ct boxes of low end base with a loupe and microfiber and subbing every possible 10. A lot of people still don't grade period.


Love this. I don't like how people assume any raw cards on eBay must be flawed in some way.....yes, most likely the seller is leaving money on the table in many cases by not grading, but some of us just don't want to bother with the process.

[jzx1103]

Well it'll be very interesting to revisit this thread a year from now. I'm sort of in the middle on this one. I definitely don't think current prices for this card can hold, which is why I'm eagerly waiting to get my 3 copies back that I sent to psa hoping I can still get close to current prices for it within the next 2 months, but regardless its a win for me as I got 2 of my copies as throw ins from Kobe lots I bought, and the 3rd copy was sitting in my closet the past 20 years. On the other hand I dont believe this card will ever come close to previous bargain bin prices again unless we have an apocalyptic sports card market crash that's worse than the junk wax crash in the early 90s. I think once it drops it'll settle around the $100 range for raw and $400 to $500 for psa 9s, and $2k for psa 10s. Kobes death and how long before they can start making Kobe cards again will also play a factor

[regularp]

Love this. I don't like how people assume any raw cards on eBay must be flawed in some way.....yes, most likely the seller is leaving money on the table in many cases by not grading, but some of us just don't want to bother with the process.

But certain cards, like this one, will lead to skepticism because of the price for graded versions. I would operate under the assumption that almost no raws on eBay would gem. It's just too much money being left on the table, even if people "don't want to bother with the process."

This isn't $300-400 we're talking about. This is 3-5 months worth of rent/mortgage now.

[Springerj23]

2 comments
Bought an 08 Chrome Kobe raw off ebay in June, It Gemmed!

Sold PSA 9 Topps Kobe on here today for current market prices! So all the conspiracy theory here can stop. It was paid for!

So yes, this, that, and all of it doesn’t make sense sometimes, but anything is possible, especially in today’s world.

[jzx1103]

2 comments
Bought an 08 Chrome Kobe raw off ebay in June, It Gemmed!

Sold PSA 9 Topps Kobe on here today for current market prices! So all the conspiracy theory here can stop. It was paid for!

So yes, this, that, and all of it doesn’t make sense sometimes, but anything is possible, especially in today’s world.

Best quote of this thread right here.

[kevbojones]

Nothing in the hobby makes sense right now

Got my brother a 96 Kobe PSA 10 for $200 last November for his birthday.

I picked up a raw Kobe for $10 around the same time

Kobe's tragic death was really the catalyst for the exponential gains we are seeing on an almost hourly basis at this point. Yes things were getting crazy, but again NOTHING makes sense in the hobby right now.

I guess we should just enjoy the ride

[regularp]

Nothing in the hobby makes sense right now

Got my brother a 96 Kobe PSA 10 for $200 last November for his birthday.

I picked up a raw Kobe for $10 around the same time

Kobe's tragic death was really the catalyst for the exponential gains we are seeing on an almost hourly basis at this point. Yes things were getting crazy, but again NOTHING makes sense in the hobby right now.

I guess we should just enjoy the ride

Except these gains happened quite a few months after his death. It's just the market catching up. No current player besides LeBron should be priced higher than Kobe.

[shootit]

Except these gains happened quite a few months after his death. It's just the market catching up. No current player besides LeBron should be priced higher than Kobe.


Fax Kobe top 3 and he ain’t 3rd. And I collect lebron as my main pc lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[biggieruth]

Those pumpers in here are so silly.

Keep trying to prove a 1996 Topps base cards is rare at all. I know people that have sat on those Kobe's forever and still haven't graded them. I have busted several boxes of these and all of mine came with perfect centering, most of the cards did, perhaps I got lucky?

The simplest explanation is that the card is super mass produced and the fact that this was a $10 card for over ten years has affected the population reports. Those with the card are showing up in this thread to manipulate people into buying their terrible investment card.

Quote me in a year, babyI agree with you I seen stacks of these cards in flea markets and goodwills. I feel sorry for the suckers and idiots holding the bag on some these cards. If you pay over $500 for this card graded your not a smart person and will be burned in 2-3 years.

Sent from my LG-M255 using Tapatalk

[Willikn]

Bought an 08 Chrome Kobe raw off ebay in June, It Gemmed!


Not sure what the take away should be. If you are suggesting that people can expect PSA 10s when buying raw cards from 2008, I would disagree. Of course it can happen. I've purchased two LeBron RCs raw in the last six months that received BGS 9.5. Two terrific scores. Not the usual result and certainly not what I expect when buying raw.


Sold PSA 9 Topps Kobe on here today for current market prices! So all the conspiracy theory here can stop. It was paid for!

So yes, this, that, and all of it doesn’t make sense sometimes, but anything is possible, especially in today’s world.

I don't know that one sale is indisputable proof of something. I do congratulate you on your sale.

Can't speak for others. I found it alarming that this card appeared to rise 250% in the course of five calendar days. Last week of July. It was that period that remains questionable. It seems that jump has been accepted.. for now.

Tons of examples, but an Emmitt Smith Fleer Update RC made a similar nonsensical jump. April maybe? It held for about a month. Maybe two. It has now lost about 60% of its gain. There we weren't talking thousands of dollars per so it probably slid under most radars.

I don't know what's going to happen with this Kobe card. The LeBron paper Topps Icon Flagship timeless beauty is much higher. If that thing is $9k, then Kobe at $6k is probably right. Just not right for me is all.

[Springerj23]

I was just suggesting that blanket statements of nothing raw on Ebay will GEM and sales are fake is not the cold hard truth. There are always outliers for everything. Everyone has to do their own research, and make their own decisions. Living by blanket statements on the internet will not get you very far is where I was going...

[DajuanWagner]

I agree with you I seen stacks of these cards in flea markets and goodwills. I feel sorry for the suckers and idiots holding the bag on some these cards. If you pay over $500 for this card graded your not a smart person and will be burned in 2-3 years.

Sent from my LG-M255 using Tapatalk




I need to move to North Carolina so I can go to those flea markets and goodwills……...

[GatorPie]

Again, I'll bet there are THOUSANDS of these cards currently at the big 3 grading companies. The market is about to be completely flooded. If you've got one, move it NOW.

[shootit]

I agree with you I seen stacks of these cards in flea markets and goodwills. I feel sorry for the suckers and idiots holding the bag on some these cards. If you pay over $500 for this card graded your not a smart person and will be burned in 2-3 years.

Sent from my LG-M255 using Tapatalk


Well lebron equivalent 221 psa 9 is selling for 2k so 500 ain’t bad for a kobe

Feels a whole lot like salt cus u didn’t see the value and take adv of it when u could’ve lol

And I don’t even own any of those Kobe’s. Jus pointing out fax as a neutral bystander

It’s the same reason that lebron rookie in a 9 costs more then what I paid for a lebron rookie /199 bgs 9, yesterday [emoji57] long as market keeps like this it’s all good for me man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jzx1103]

Again, I'll bet there are THOUSANDS of these cards currently at the big 3 grading companies. The market is about to be completely flooded. If you've got one, move it NOW.

I bet theres more sitting in people's closets instead of grading companies. I have a friend who I know has a few from our childhood. When I asked him about it a few days ago. He said they're somewhere in the house but he's not about to turn his house upside down to look for em lol.

[chuckerrrr]

Well lebron equivalent 221 psa 9 is selling for 2k so 500 ain’t bad for a kobe

Feels a whole lot like salt cus u didn’t see the value and take adv of it when u could’ve lol

And I don’t even own any of those Kobe’s. Jus pointing out fax as a neutral bystander

It’s the same reason that lebron rookie in a 9 costs more then what I paid for a lebron rookie /199 bgs 9, yesterday [emoji57] long as market keeps like this it’s all good for me man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


People didnt see the value because the card had no value/demand for 23 years. Now the card has been manipulated to 50x the value in 6 months. Nothing suss!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shootit]

People didnt see the value because the card had no/demand for 23 years. Now the card has been manipulated to 50x the value in 6 months. Nothing suss!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


More so the bass > print run market paradigm happened


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[hairyangryfella]

More so the bass > print run market paradigm happened


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I fail to understand how a guitar or fish has anything to do with a print run of cards...

[hairyangryfella]

Keep posing your nonsense. PSA 10 Kobe RC populations
Bowman’s Best 1141
Collectors Choice 349
Finest 2531
Showcase 58
Fleer 253
Hoops 436
Metal 114
EX2000 22
Skybox 541
ZForce 200
SP 858
Stadium 223
Topps 2235
Ultra 288
Upper Deck 726

If Topps is so rare and hard to grade, why are the pops on other paper RCs so low compared to the Topps? Most collectors from the 90s don’t grade their base. It is easy to say make x dollars grading and getting 10s, but the flip side is lose money when they come back 9 and sell at raw price. This grade all your base RCs is a new phenomena with today’s collectors. And we haven’t addressed the elephant in the room. What happens to the pop when the card doctors target this card and start turning raw and 9s into 10s. At today’s price and if the price holds, it is just a matter of when.
I find these numbers staggering. The Finest, notorious for poor centering and seemingly less likely to gem if peel stays on, has that many 10s..?
Either way, the value of the low end Topps should not be up near or above the high end Finest.

[shootit]

I fail to understand how a guitar or fish has anything to do with a print run of cards...


Has everything to do wit it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lseecon]

Keep posing your nonsense. PSA 10 Kobe RC populations
Bowman’s Best 1141
Collectors Choice 349
Finest 2531
Showcase 58
Fleer 253
Hoops 436
Metal 114
EX2000 22
Skybox 541
ZForce 200
SP 858
Stadium 223
Topps 2235
Ultra 288
Upper Deck 726

If Topps is so rare and hard to grade, why are the pops on other paper RCs so low compared to the Topps? Most collectors from the 90s don’t grade their base. It is easy to say make x dollars grading and getting 10s, but the flip side is lose money when they come back 9 and sell at raw price. This grade all your base RCs is a new phenomena with today’s collectors. And we haven’t addressed the elephant in the room. What happens to the pop when the card doctors target this card and start turning raw and 9s into 10s. At today’s price and if the price holds, it is just a matter of when.

Thought it was a good time to bump this thread and check the pop report of the flagship topps rookie card, because certainly in the past three months, there must have been thousands and thousands of new PSA 10s graded according to some of the "savants" who post on these boards.

So three months later, only about 300 more PSA 10s graded? WTF? During the biggest price explosion of modern basketball cards in history? What happened to those thousands of gem mint raw Kobe 96 topps rookies that are sitting in boxes to be graded?

Even I am surprised the pop report on 10s has not budged very much during this period. Certainly, those who are sitting on hundreds and thousands of gem mint 10 raw Kobe flagship rookies have been jumping at the chance the last three months to pay $200 2 day service to get those cards graded a psa 10 and turn a $30 raw card into a $2,000 plus graded card before the other thousands of kobes get graded........

Have prices of Kobe rookie cards dropped like all basketball rookie cards the last three months----of course.......

is it because of a huge increase in the supply of PSA 10 1996 Topps Topps cards. Of course not.

Still crazy to me that there are only 2600 PSA 10 base topps Kobe rookie cards graded.
Compare that to the 10,000 plus PSA 10 base rookie cards of Zion and Luka and Ja Morant......

But hey there are thousands and thousands of these just waiting to get graded PSA 10------lets bump this again in a year and see how foolish some of these people bashing the iconic topps kobe rookie card are because there are thousands just out there waiting to become psa 10s.

[k13]

Just cause something is rare doesn't mean people want it.

[90skid]

I started tracking the PSA 9 and 10 pop of Kobe's Topps Base and NBA 50th parallel on a daily basis, since 8/18/20 to see how the population has been. Here's where it stands:

1996 Topps #138 Base:
8/18/20
PSA 9: 5,604
PSA 10: 2,243

11/21/20
PSA 9: 7,439 (+1,835 new in 95 days)
PSA 10: 2,575 (+332 new in 95 days)
2,575

Total Pop Count Comparison: 10,670 vs 14,404 (+3,734 new in 95 days)


The NBA 50th Parallel has been interesting, PSA must have literally the strictest ruleset for a GEM 10 on it, because in those 95 days since I've been tracking, not a single new PSA 10 has popped.

1996 Topps NBA 50th #138
8/18/20
PSA 9: 248
PSA 10: 67

11/21/20
PSA 9: 281 (+33 new in 95 days)
PSA 10: 67 (+0 new)

Total Pop Count Comparison: 618 vs 726 (+108 new in 95 days)

[i4gotmyid]

I started tracking the PSA 9 and 10 pop of Kobe's Topps Base and NBA 50th parallel on a daily basis, since 8/18/20 to see how the population has been. Here's where it stands:

1996 Topps #138 Base:
8/18/20
PSA 9: 5,604
PSA 10: 2,243

11/21/20
PSA 9: 7,439 (+1,835 new in 95 days)
PSA 10: 2,575 (+332 new in 95 days)
2,575

Total Pop Count Comparison: 10,670 vs 14,404 (+3,734 new in 95 days)


The NBA 50th Parallel has been interesting, PSA must have literally the strictest ruleset for a GEM 10 on it, because in those 95 days since I've been tracking, not a single new PSA 10 has popped.

1996 Topps NBA 50th #138
8/18/20
PSA 9: 248
PSA 10: 67

11/21/20
PSA 9: 281 (+33 new in 95 days)
PSA 10: 67 (+0 new)

Total Pop Count Comparison: 618 vs 726 (+108 new in 95 days)

There isn't a "ruleset" or "population control" for the 50th, most came out the pack with chipped edges or surface wear.

[90skid]

There isn't a "ruleset" or "population control" for the 50th, most came out the pack with chipped edges or surface wear.

Oh I know, I just find it interesting in comparison to the base how lower population those are, and of course how much harder it must be to find one gem worthy. Anyone trying to buy a raw one on ebay hoping to grade out is really taking a gamble, but hey that's all part of the fun now isn't it.

[2010GBPackers]

I started tracking the PSA 9 and 10 pop of Kobe's Topps Base and NBA 50th parallel on a daily basis, since 8/18/20 to see how the population has been. Here's where it stands:

1996 Topps #138 Base:
8/18/20
PSA 9: 5,604
PSA 10: 2,243

11/21/20
PSA 9: 7,439 (+1,835 new in 95 days)
PSA 10: 2,575 (+332 new in 95 days)
2,575

Total Pop Count Comparison: 10,670 vs 14,404 (+3,734 new in 95 days)


+332 PSA 10's in 95 days is a ton. It will obviously slow down in the next 6 months to year, but there are probably hundreds more in the backlog that are waiting to be graded. I want to see the next auction on PWCC cite it as a "pop 2,575"!

[2010GBPackers]

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 2,578 PSA 10's as of this morning, 11/23/2020.

The 1954 Topps Hank Aaron is at 4,405 total graded (11/23/2020)

I'll revisit and see how close the gap gets in a few months.

[mbuch21]

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 2,578 PSA 10's as of this morning, 11/23/2020.

The 1954 Topps Hank Aaron is at 4,405 total graded (11/23/2020)

I'll revisit and see how close the gap gets in a few months.


Yes, and it’s probably fair to say that over the next 20 years, demand for Kobe will 4x, or more likely 40x, that for Hank Aaron.
#supply&DEMAND

[jzx1103]

Yes, and it’s probably fair to say that over the next 20 years, demand for Kobe will 4x, or more likely 40x, that for Hank Aaron.
#supply&DEMAND

This is probably true though, despite Aaron being a GOAT in baseball. No player in baseball can come close to the popularity of GOATs in basketball worldwide. Mantle is probably the closest.

[rats60]

Yes, and it’s probably fair to say that over the next 20 years, demand for Kobe will 4x, or more likely 40x, that for Hank Aaron.
#supply&DEMAND

Not likely, Kobe is no longer playing. MJ is the only player who has increased in popularity after retirement. Even so, why would people chase his cheapest easiest to find RC? This has been clear manipulation by people who hoarded Topps when they were cheap. Good luck to those buying in at today's levels.

[sebreg]

Not likely, Kobe is no longer playing. MJ is the only player who has increased in popularity after retirement. Even so, why would people chase his cheapest easiest to find RC? This has been clear manipulation by people who hoarded Topps when they were cheap. Good luck to those buying in at today's levels.

Imo there are much nicer Kobe rookies to chase as well, don't quite understand the hype on the Topps rookies.

[miscus555]

i like other Kobe rookie cards more than the topps RC but unlike the fleer jordan where you know what card to invest in and nothing else, cards for Kobe and Lebron need a card to stand out more than all the rest. I think companies like topps are well known by pretty much ever collector and it makes sense that usually topps rookie cards are the ones that end up being the most popular and stand out over time. I think we've seen that with Kobe and Lebron chrome.
The other plus is that there are other Kobe/Lebron rookie cards to choose from if you want to go super rare with all the bells and whistles or just something small to say you have it. it's like getting a small house and being proud to be a home owner or if you can, buy a huge mansion. Either way its still a home. In Jordan's RC case, you are stuck in an area where only a mansion is available and not everyone can own that so they are left with nothing.

[sebreg]

i like other Kobe rookie cards more than the topps RC but unlike the fleer jordan where you know what card to invest in and nothing else, cards for Kobe and Lebron need a card to stand out more than all the rest. I think companies like topps are well known by pretty much ever collector and it makes sense that usually topps rookie cards are the ones that end up being the most popular and stand out over time. I think we've seen that with Kobe and Lebron chrome.
The other plus is that there are other Kobe/Lebron rookie cards to choose from if you want to go super rare with all the bells and whistles or just something small to say you have it. it's like getting a small house and being proud to be a home owner or if you can, buy a huge mansion. Either way its still a home. In Jordan's RC case, you are stuck in an area where only a mansion is available and not everyone can own that so they are left with nothing.

Yeah, those are very good points. Agree, the greater accessibility and brand recognition of those Topps rookie cards helps give them greater liquidity and helps keep them on the radar of interest for a broader swath of collectors.

[2010GBPackers]

Not likely, Kobe is no longer playing. MJ is the only player who has increased in popularity after retirement. Even so, why would people chase his cheapest easiest to find RC? This has been clear manipulation by people who hoarded Topps when they were cheap. Good luck to those buying in at today's levels.

They're down $2,900 already.

Using auction prices only:

August (peak) $5,200
Today ~ $2,300

[hauntedcomputer]

Yes, and it’s probably fair to say that over the next 20 years, demand for Kobe will 4x, or more likely 40x, that for Hank Aaron.
#supply&DEMAND

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years. Aaron will still be the non-PED home run king.

Recency bias clouds a lot of people's judgment.

[2010GBPackers]

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years. Aaron will still be the non-PED home run king.

Recency bias clouds a lot of people's judgment.

Disagree/Agree

[Kobe101]

They're down $1,900 already.

Using auction prices only:

August (peak) $5,200
Today ~ $2,300

Agreed it was very obvious they were being pumped and/or manipulated.

Feel bad for the people that bought in to it.

[Hellcat]

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years. Aaron will still be the non-PED home run king.

Recency bias clouds a lot of people's judgment.

What a clown! Kobe is on Mt. Rushmore of all-time greats. Hank isn’t even top 10. Come on man!!!

[sebreg]

Kobe won 5 championships, was a dominant, incredibly technically skilled, exciting scoring guard who is also lionized/remembered for his mentality. He will remain iconic. Not quite Jordan level, but he'll remain highly collected.

Insane the Topps rc reached 5.2k, pretty ridiculous.

[dunkindutchmen]

Someone please explain to me how the hell this Topps rookie is more valuable than his Topps Finest, PSA Ten.

[dunkindutchmen]

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years. Aaron will still be the non-PED home run king.

Recency bias clouds a lot of people's judgment.


You must have started watching basketball last week, because you clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

[jzx1103]

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years. Aaron will still be the non-PED home run king.

Recency bias clouds a lot of people's judgment.

Lol this guy!!!

[2010GBPackers]

What a clown! Kobe is on Mt. Rushmore of all-time greats. Hank isn’t even top 10. Come on man!!!

Another Hellcat hot-take!!

[Hellcat]

Another Hellcat hot-take!!

I don’t blame you for being bitter a long suffering Packers fan:D

[mbuch21]

Kobe won’t be on the Mount Rushmore of career accomplishments, but he will be on the Mount Rushmore of DEMAND for the next 20 years.

Case in point, I love Bill Russell cards. He is definitely in the top 10 on career accomplishments. But as it turns out, his cards are super cheap because the Bill Russell market has no depth, notwithstanding his accomplishments.

Mount Rushmore of Demand:
Jordan - Lebron - Kobe.
I don’t think there’s a fourth.

[JimCa]

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years. Aaron will still be the non-PED home run king.

Recency bias clouds a lot of people's judgment.


So you're saying if I randomly come across one in darn near perfect shape among some long forgotten previously opened packs stashed in a closet, I may as well just toss it in the Fringe Top 20 If That commons box??


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50638321853_41ed2e9f41_z.jpg

[1980bust]

The other plus is that there are other Kobe/Lebron rookie cards to choose from if you want to go super rare with all the bells and whistles or just something small to say you have it. it's like getting a small house and being proud to be a home owner or if you can, buy a huge mansion. Either way its still a home. In Jordan's RC case, you are stuck in an area where only a mansion is available and not everyone can own that so they are left with nothing.

This is such a perfect analogy and exactly how I feel when I see the prices of tens of thousands of graded base cards vs their numbered parallels.

Everyone can live in an apartment, but everybody will always dream of the mansion when they've forgotten about the apartment.

[jzx1103]

Aside from the joke about Kobe not being a fringe top 20 player in the NBA. It also doesn't matter in terms of Hobby demand and value. Alot of analysts say Magic is the greatest Laker ever, but his popularity, demand and card prices will never come close to Kobe's. There's no basketball player more beloved in Asia than Kobe, even more so than Jordan (cause Jordan was already at the end of his career when NBA really started to become big in Asia) Kobe was the first NBA megastar that drew everyone's attention from China to Taiwan to the Philippines. Another lower example of popularity/demand not equal to hobby value. Look at Paul Pierce vs Vince Carter. Both from same draft class, both SG. Pierce had the more successful career and even played on a more notable franchise. But Carters cards are worth more even today by at least 50% and up to 2x of Pierce because Carter was known for his more entertaining dunks and playstyle. Kobe was the closest thing to Jordan in this area as well.

[Asian62150]

Kobe won’t be on the Mount Rushmore of career accomplishments, but he will be on the Mount Rushmore of DEMAND for the next 20 years.

Case in point, I love Bill Russell cards. He is definitely in the top 10 on career accomplishments. But as it turns out, his cards are super cheap because the Bill Russell market has no depth, notwithstanding his accomplishments.

Mount Rushmore of Demand:
Jordan - Lebron - Kobe.
I don’t think there’s a fourth.

He's not there yet, but Luka is climbing that mountain.

[Dame]

Imo there are much nicer Kobe rookies to chase as well, don't quite understand the hype on the Topps rookies.

This.

I personally think the Finest Gold Refractor RC is still undervalued and Bowman’s Atomic refractor (bot relatively low population) deserves more love, compared to his Topps Chrome RC..

[Dame]

He's not there yet, but Luka is climbing that mountain.

Way too early. thanks

[ThoseBackPages]

This.

I personally think the Finest Gold Refractor RC is still undervalued and Bowman’s Atomic refractor (bot relatively low population) deserves more love, compared to his Topps Chrome RC..

sure, but those are parallels

[mc1]

This.

I personally think the Finest Gold Refractor RC is still undervalued and Bowman’s Atomic refractor (bot relatively low population) deserves more love, compared to his Topps Chrome RC..

The gold is not even a true rookie. He had a card in series 1 thats the true base RC. The gold is a short printed base that came about 1-24 packs. The gold refractors were about 1:12 boxes.

[Asian62150]

Way too early. thanks

Way too early to say "he's not there yet?" thanks.

[Hellcat]

Kobe won’t be on the Mount Rushmore of career accomplishments, but he will be on the Mount Rushmore of DEMAND for the next 20 years.

Case in point, I love Bill Russell cards. He is definitely in the top 10 on career accomplishments. But as it turns out, his cards are super cheap because the Bill Russell market has no depth, notwithstanding his accomplishments.

Mount Rushmore of Demand:
Jordan - Lebron - Kobe.
I don’t think there’s a fourth.

Isn’t he 4th in all-time scoring?! That’s Mount Rushmore worthy!

[2010GBPackers]

Way too early to say "he's not there yet?" thanks.

Um, yes. If he were to have a Derrick Rose-type injury, he would have had a less impressive career than D.Rose. Trajectory isn't real until it happens.

[KhalDrogo]

Luka is obviously the 4th biggest draw in the basketball hobby. Not even debatable.

[Dame]

Um, yes. If he were to have a Derrick Rose-type injury, he would have had a less impressive career than D.Rose. Trajectory isn't real until it happens.

Correct.

[sebreg]

Um, yes. If he were to have a Derrick Rose-type injury, he would have had a less impressive career than D.Rose. Trajectory isn't real until it happens.

100%. So many early-career guys I collected in 90s who could have projected to possibly top 20 all-time, but sadly got derailed by injuries. I love Luka, but if you think about risk/reward in successfully accomplishing a full legendary career arc, I'd put it at 10-20% (which imo is actually quite high, he has the talent and ability and a good owner, but the problem are all the unpredictable potential issues/road-blocks, namely injuries, that can derail him). That said, obviously I'm hoping he stays healthy, he is great for the game, he is box office...

[Dame]

100%. So many early-career guys I collected in 90s who could have projected to possibly top 20 all-time, but sadly got derailed by injuries. I love Luka, but if you think about risk/reward in successfully accomplishing a full legendary career arc, I'd put it at 10-20% (which imo is actually quite high, he has the talent and ability and a good owner, but the problem are all the unpredictable potential issues/road-blocks, namely injuries, that can derail him). That said, obviously I'm hoping he stays healthy, he is great for the game, he is box office...

Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway to name a couple.

[Kobe101]

I heard SCI just got a Kobe Topps PSA 10 in the mail... that solves the mystery. It is a good investment!

[sebreg]

I heard SCI just got a Kobe Topps PSA 10 in the mail... that solves the mystery. It is a good investment!

SCI did pick up psa 10 Star Date Kobe rc... that is an awesome card imo, love to pick that one up one of these days.

[sebreg]

Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway to name a couple.

Exactly! those guys/and McGrady were ridiculously amazing early-career. Penny was so smooth.

And it was great to see GHill make his way back and accomplish a solid back-end of his career. Really hoping Klay can follow that arc, come back as a solid/effective player from these really tough back to back injuries.

[Ericc5Bears]

For the Mt. Rushmore of cards in terms of demand MJ and Lebron have 2 of the 4 spots locked and then, I think Kobe and Luka are at 3 and 4. Obviously, that could change if Luka disappoints but as of right now that's the way it is.

[Asian62150]

For the Mt. Rushmore of cards in terms of demand MJ and Lebron have 2 of the 4 spots locked and then as of right now, I think Kobe and Luka are at 3 and 4. Obviously, that could change if Luka disappoints but as of right now that's the way it is.

Agree.

If you're talking right now, Luka is on the list. The demand for his stuff is insane. There might not be a more liquid card over $1K than his Prizm PSA 10.

If you're talking demand 20 years from now, who knows.

[2010GBPackers]

Agree.

If you're talking right now, Luka is on the list. The demand for his stuff is insane. There might not be a more liquid card over $1K than his Prizm PSA 10.

If you're talking demand 20 years from now, who knows.

This is like saying the largest, in-demand financial asset is the blackjack table in your local casino.

[Asian62150]

This is like saying the largest, in-demand financial asset is the blackjack table in your local casino.

Not really sure how those are the same. But happy to hear the explanation. Feel free to PM if you think this is starting to veer from the original topic.

[ThoseBackPages]

Agree.

If you're talking right now, Luka is on the list. The demand for his stuff is insane. There might not be a more liquid card over $1K than his Prizm PSA 10.

If you're talking demand 20 years from now, who knows.

Jordan
Lebron
Kobe

[mbuch21]

Back to the original topic...
I tend to agree the Kobe Topps RC is surprisingly expensive and makes many people uncomfortable BUT
Here is a framework to noodle on:
Historically, scarcity was the critical asset that correlated with desirability. So as supply went down and demand went up, prices went up.
But in a frictionless eBay world, and a high volume Insta world, RECOGNITION is what matters, not scarcity. People want to have the IT card to post or flip. So circularly, supply actually DRIVES demand and hence the rise of the base Prizm and the $1k Luka with a print run of perhaps 50k. From a scarcity perspective it makes no sense, but from a recognition perspective it makes perfect sense.
Now on to the punchline: the LIQUIDITY PREMIUM is at an all time high and rising. So I’m buying cards with high total pop and print runs, but low PSA 10 pop, because you get all of the recognition that drives the market, but still preserve scarcity of the 10 grade. Best of both worlds.
Plug that framework into Kobe Topps or any other comparable benchmark card.
Curious your thoughts.

[sebreg]

Back to the original topic...
I tend to agree the Kobe Topps RC is surprisingly expensive and makes many people uncomfortable BUT
Here is a framework to noodle on:
Historically, scarcity was the critical asset that correlated with desirability. So as supply went down and demand went up, prices went up.
But in a frictionless eBay world, and a high volume Insta world, RECOGNITION is what matters, not scarcity. People want to have the IT card to post or flip. So circularly, supply actually DRIVES demand and hence the rise of the base Prizm and the $1k Luka with a print run of perhaps 50k. From a scarcity perspective it makes no sense, but from a recognition perspective it makes perfect sense.
Now on to the punchline: the LIQUIDITY PREMIUM is at an all time high and rising. So I’m buying cards with high total pop and print runs, but low PSA 10 pop, because you get all of the recognition that drives the market, but still preserve scarcity of the 10 grade. Best of both worlds.
Plug that framework into Kobe Topps or any other comparable benchmark card.
Curious your thoughts.

I hear what you are saying.

But I can't help but be somewhat beholden to the supply side of the equation. This particular phenomenon really reminds me of 89 UD Griffey rookie and 90 Leaf Frank Thomas. They commanded strong premiums (for the time), but ultimately were a dime a dozen. I think there can be periods of psychological momentum that drives these type of frenzies, but usually they don't stand the test of time if the supply side of the equation is "over-supplied." That would be my bet. Can't say if I'll be proven right or not, either way we shall see...

[sebreg]

Jordan
Lebron
Kobe

The holy basketball trinity :) can't go wrong imo

[aaronking23]

I think the longer people collect they will appreciate rarity more over what the general population "demands"

A rare auto or insert is more desirable to me then what a 3rd party grading company decides whats a 10 and whats a 9/8 etc

The 10s are going for around 2,500, you could get a beauitful auto/insert with that

Tons of 9s look exactly like 10s to the naked eye, but people collect how they want to collect and it's their money so its cool

[Dame]

Jordan
Lebron
Kobe

This.

Just look at the body work of those 3.

[duron]

This thread is so sh!tty that it’s going to make Kobe die all over again.

[Dame]

This thread is so sh!tty that it’s going to make Kobe die all over again.

Joke is in poor taste tbh.

Smh..

[BigDMcG73]

i like other Kobe rookie cards more than the topps RC but unlike the fleer jordan where you know what card to invest in and nothing else, cards for Kobe and Lebron need a card to stand out more than all the rest. I think companies like topps are well known by pretty much ever collector and it makes sense that usually topps rookie cards are the ones that end up being the most popular and stand out over time. I think we've seen that with Kobe and Lebron chrome.
The other plus is that there are other Kobe/Lebron rookie cards to choose from if you want to go super rare with all the bells and whistles or just something small to say you have it. it's like getting a small house and being proud to be a home owner or if you can, buy a huge mansion. Either way its still a home. In Jordan's RC case, you are stuck in an area where only a mansion is available and not everyone can own that so they are left with nothing.


I agree about liking other Kobe RCs better. I recently picked up his Fleer Ultra RC in a PSA 10. I like the look of it better than the base Topps and its PSA 10 population is in the 200s compared to over 2500 for the Topps PSA 10.

[Brent72]

LOL no

Kobe will be a fringe Top 20 all-time player, if that, in 20 years.

Absurd!

[Brent72]

Jordan
Lebron
Kobe

Yup, not even debatable. Only question is who gets the 4th spot on the Mt. Rushmore of collecting. I'd say it's a race between Luka and Giannis with Luka in the lead right now.

[asujbl]

This thread is something even for Blowout

[sorr1l]

Hi guys, what Kobe RC's should I be on the look out for? Yes I have topps hehe, a metal, freshly forged, and a bowman. I need to add more!:flex:

[jzx1103]

Hi guys, what Kobe RC's should I be on the look out for? Yes I have topps hehe, a metal, freshly forged, and a bowman. I need to add more!:flex:

EX 2000, Bowman's Best

[lietuvalabas]

EX 2000, Bowman's Best

definitley e-x2000 i pick them up every chance i see one at even a decent deal, but those times will likely be closing soon

[mc1]

Hi guys, what Kobe RC's should I be on the look out for? Yes I have topps hehe, a metal, freshly forged, and a bowman. I need to add more!:flex:

Finest refractor (bronze)
Finest refractor (gold)
Topps NBA at 50 parallel

[sorr1l]

Yikes, the EX is out of my budget haha. But they really look good!

[mc1]

Yikes, the EX is out of my budget haha. But they really look good!

Come on man, really? You can get an 8 for a good price.

[lietuvalabas]

Come on man, really? You can get an 8 for a good price.

woof i just looked. i sold 2 psa 9s at the cleveland national in 2018 for probably 125 each, that was the going rate, i sold my psa 10 for waaaaaaay less than they go for now to a fine member on here a few months after i sold the 9s. granted i had like $40-$50 into each card but still stings.

[Dame]

woof i just looked. i sold 2 psa 9s at the cleveland national in 2018 for probably 125 each, that was the going rate, i sold my psa 10 for waaaaaaay less than they go for now to a fine member on here a few months after i sold the 9s. granted i had like $40-$50 into each card but still stings.

What’s a fair price for PSA 9 Ex2000’s?

[jzx1103]

What’s a fair price for PSA 9 Ex2000’s?

They're going for about $1400 to $1500 now, there's a huge price jump between PSA 8 and PSA 9. From $400 to about $1400

[sorr1l]

Come on man, really? You can get an 8 for a good price.

haha, Unfortunately, not. But if it's under $400, it's something I can save up for real quick, especially since it's a Kobe. :D

[Dame]

They're going for about $1400 to $1500 now, there's a huge price jump between PSA 8 and PSA 9. From $400 to about $1400

That’s what I thought. Sent some offers for $1400 on a few PSA 9’s on Ebay and they were getting rejected.

[2010GBPackers]

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 2,578 PSA 10's as of this morning, 11/23/2020.

The 1954 Topps Hank Aaron is at 4,405 total graded (11/23/2020)

I'll revisit and see how close the gap gets in a few months.

UPDATE:

As of this morning, 05/07/2021 and 165 days since my previous update.

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 2,958 PSA 10's. +380

The 1954 Topps Hank Aaron is at 4,575 total graded (non-qualifiers). +170

Also, the current market price of a '96 Topps Kobe paper rookie PSA 10 is ~$5,000.

[mc1]

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 3572 PSA 10's.

Total graded Topps Kobe RCs = 26,976

The current market price of a '96 Topps Kobe paper rookie PSA 10 is ~$1500

[jcardstore]

-70% ROI in 7 months. Nice!

[theleica]

-70% ROI in 7 months. Nice!

+614 PSA 10 in 7 months.

[pingbling23]

+614 PSA 10 in 7 months.

That seems crazy to me. Are they fakes?

[theleica]

That seems crazy to me. Are they fakes?

I think 614 more PSA 10s in 7 months is more unbelievable than the cards dropping 70% in value.

[discodanman45]

That seems crazy to me. Are they fakes?

No need for fakes. There are so many of these cards that were produced. There are probably thousands of these cards at PSA still that have a chance at a PSA 10.

[mc1]

That seems crazy to me. Are they fakes?

Look at this post in the 2nd page.

Kobe 96 Topps PSA 10 is an iconic card. More condition sensitive than people think. Only 2231 10's against 10557 graded. Very low 21.1% Gem rate.

Total cards graded went from 10k to over 26k.

Post is from last August, so it doesnt specify how many total cards were graded in May.

[brettmik59]

Classic case of just too high a pop report to sustain price once the hype fades and investors evacuate. Not to mention it's a common card that was then graded en masse following the spike.

[Dame]

I think the craze on his autographs are next. There’s just too many of them. Obviously some are safer than others but his lower end will see more dips (Market is steadily declining on those anyway)

[GeechQuest]

Kobe Bryant 1996 Topps PSA 10-----2,235 is current Pop report


Lets see where the pop report is in in 10 days. That will give all these people claiming they have or others have tens of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe base cards plenty of time to have had them graded at $200 a pop per PSA's 5 day turnaround service. Heck if you have dozens, whey not pay the $500 per card and get your Gem Mint PSA 10 Kobe cards back in ONE day from PSA and then sell them to all the "idiots" for $3,000 to
$6,000 who are overpaying for his iconic rookie base card.

Will people go through their 1996 cards and try and find gem mint Kobe rookie cards? I am sure there will be some of that, but his card prices spiked 6 months ago so they had plenty of time to do that. Why hasnt the number of 10s ballooned over the last 6 months?

While the card is by no means rare, it is condition sensitive and there are alot less raw out there then people think..

Come on lets see those hundreds of thousands of raw gem mint Kobe cards that are out there just waiting to become PSA 10s.

This will be my last post on this topic. When you read just moronic and dumb posts you feel a need to reply and that's why i have been replying.



2. Clearly if that was the case, the number of 10s would have been much much higher over years. Nobody has hundreds of gem mint base Kobe's ungraded sitting around. Ok maybe one or two super collectors/hoarders do but those cards wont see the light of day anytime soon.

3. Its funny how the posters who want to bash the 1996 Topps Kobe keep claiming that there are tens of thousands of raw copies just waiting to be graded, but its not themselves that have those stacks of raw copies, its always "some one" else or "some body I know." If gem mint raw copies are so plentiful and abundant then how come all the "experts" who keep chiming in don't seem to have any?

5. Most of the raw copies that could gem have long been graded. Could we see an explosion of graded 10s? Perhaps another 1,000 get added to the mix over the next few months? I think that is highly unlikely but even if happens, there would still be less 10s than the Trout and Luka, Griffey, and a host of others. Could prices drop, sure, but it wont be because of an explosion of newly graded PSA 10s. That wont happen. Perhaps demand overall drops, but supply is not going to explode like all these posters and uniformed people keep suggesting.

Thought it was a good time to bump this thread and check the pop report of the flagship topps rookie card, because certainly in the past three months, there must have been thousands and thousands of new PSA 10s graded according to some of the "savants" who post on these boards.

So three months later, only about 300 more PSA 10s graded? WTF? During the biggest price explosion of modern basketball cards in history? What happened to those thousands of gem mint raw Kobe 96 topps rookies that are sitting in boxes to be graded?

Even I am surprised the pop report on 10s has not budged very much during this period. Certainly, those who are sitting on hundreds and thousands of gem mint 10 raw Kobe flagship rookies

Have prices of Kobe rookie cards dropped like all basketball rookie cards the last three months----of course.......

is it because of a huge increase in the supply of PSA 10 1996 Topps Topps cards. Of course not.

Still crazy to me that there are only 2600 PSA 10 base topps Kobe rookie cards graded.

But hey there are thousands and thousands of these just waiting to get graded PSA 10------lets bump this again in a year and see how foolish some of these people bashing the iconic topps kobe rookie card are because there are thousands just out there waiting to become psa 10s.




The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 3572 PSA 10's.

Total graded Topps Kobe RCs = 26,976

The current market price of a '96 Topps Kobe paper rookie PSA 10 is ~$1500

It is hilarious to go back in the thread and see the one dick who talked down to others be proven wrong. It's not just the woefully bad takes, it's the talking down like the OTHER people are the idiots. Who doesn't love a good schadenfreude.

The total pop has increased over 150% since the thread was started last August.

The Gem Mint Pop has increased 60% since the thread.

We haven't even gone through the mass of Kobe's that would have been submitted in the Q1 2021 wave yet, though they may be in higher service level batches...

It's as if the established members in the hobby who mocked you bass heads about this card knew what they were talking about...

Price is down roughly 80% on the PSA10 from last August. That's not even counting the geniuses who FOMO'd into this thing in Q1 of 2021. They're looking at massive losses as well.

Hopefully people didn't learn their lesson. I would like another dumb money run to pawn junk off to.

[k13]

There's more autographs than his topps rookie psa 10 by far.

[k13]

That seems crazy to me. Are they fakes?

Seems normal.
Card is selling high. Everyone submits them.
Not exactly condition sensitive card.
Psa easy on centering.
Regrades.

[Nomad]

"My card my price" is a refrain I've heard more than once in the past month. When I gently point out that the ask is 2x current. But even then the Topps is not high on my list. 50th anni maybe.

[jcardstore]

"My card my price" is a refrain I've heard more than once in the past month. When I gently point out that the ask is 2x current. But even then the Topps is not high on my list. 50th anni maybe.

The my card my price people are the worst.

[jzx1103]

There's more autographs than his topps rookie psa 10 by far.

Can't really compare his autos to Topps base RC, you're basically comparing a bunch of different cards from different sets to one card. Thats like saying there's more Kobe low numbered inserts combined compared to his Topps RC by far. What a dumb comparison. Folks who collect Kobe autos want the different ones but nobody needs 10 of the same Kobe Topps RC. I've sold 25 of my 35 Kobe autos earlier this year mainly because I thought prices were risen to outrageously high levels so I wanted to cash in some at least. I can tell you that vast majority that bought from me actually bought it to add it to their collections. Unlike the base Topps RC where pretty much all were bought for a quick flip, not many folks actually care about having that card in there collection. Yes Kobe autos also dipped a bit in the past few months, but no more than the dips of any other players. Some Kobe Autos that doesn't come up for sale often haven't dipped at all.

[k13]

Can't really compare his autos to Topps base RC, you're basically comparing a bunch of different cards from different sets to one card. Thats like saying there's more Kobe low numbered inserts compared to his Topps RC by far. Folks who collect Kobe autos want the different ones but nobody needs 10 of the same Kobe Topps RC. I've sold 25 of my 35 Kobe autos earlier this year mainly because I thought prices were risen to outrageously high levels so I wanted to cash in some at least. I can tell you that vast majority that bought from me actually bought it to add it to their collections. Unlike the base Topps RC where pretty much all bought for a quick flip, not many folks actually care about having that card in there collection. Yes Kobe autos also dipped a bit in the past few months, but no more than the dips of any other players. Some Kobe Autos that doesn't come up for sale often haven't dipped at all.

At the end of the day no one would care about his auto if he did not die.
He'd still be $150-$200.

His 3 color games used patch auto in Immaculate were sitting on Ebay for $200 and no one wanted them. Now people want to "collect"....

[jzx1103]

At the end of the day no one would care about his auto if he did not die.
He'd still be $150-$200.

His 3 color games used patch auto in Immaculate were sitting on Ebay for $200 and no one wanted them. Now people want to "collect"....

But he did die and can't sign again, so whats your point lol. Jordan and Lebron did not die but their autos steadily declined in value during the 2000s because Upper Deck was pumping out more and more every year. But as soon as UD lost their license and cannot make their NBA uniform autos anymore, those shot up in price immediately and continued to steadily risen in the past 10 years. Its literally the same example. Another example would be Bill Russell autos, his autos used to be very cheap, but right now people are anticipating him being in the end of his years and are buying up his autos at high prices left and right. Btw I have been following Kobe autos put up for sale, there's already less put up FS in these few months compared to from late last year till June of this year.

[Chris P]

At the end of the day no one would care about his auto if he did not die.
He'd still be $150-$200.

His 3 color games used patch auto in Immaculate were sitting on Ebay for $200 and no one wanted them. Now people want to "collect"....

It's funny when you always throw out "nobody cares" about players when the data suggests otherwise. Kobe autos were selling in that range because there were so many out there and the perception was he'd be signing for years to come, but even with the abundance of autos he had, his autos still commanded better than most current stars and retired vets sans rookies. If "nobody cares" like you state, then why were auto's still one of the better hits to get in modern products?

[jzx1103]

It's funny when you always throw out "nobody cares" about players when the data suggests otherwise. Kobe autos were selling in that range because there were so many out there and the perception was he'd be signing for years to come, but even with the abundance of autos he had, his autos still commanded better than most current stars and retired vets sans rookies. If "nobody cares" like you state, then why were auto's still one of the better hits to get in modern products?

And he keeps saying $150 to $200 which were prices before the basketball card boom lol, Curry Durant autos were also those prices then. What an idiot lmao

[Chris P]

And he keeps saying $150 to $200 which were prices before the basketball card boom lol, Curry Durant autos were also those prices then. What an idiot lmao

It's K13..what do you expect lol. Same guy who says nobody cares about Griffey because his random card shop in Canada hasn't sold a Griffey card in 10 years..because ya know..his random card shop in Canada is the pulse of the entire hobby:doh::rolleyes:

[2010GBPackers]

UPDATE:

As of this morning, 05/07/2021 and 165 days since my previous update.

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 2,958 PSA 10's. +380

The 1954 Topps Hank Aaron is at 4,575 total graded (non-qualifiers). +170

Also, the current market price of a '96 Topps Kobe paper rookie PSA 10 is ~$5,000.

UPDATE:

As of today, 12/15/2021 and 222 days since my previous update.

The 1996 Topps Kobe is at 2,958 PSA 10's. +614

The 1954 Topps Hank Aaron is at 4,750 total graded (non-qualifiers). +175

Also, the current market price of a '96 Topps Kobe paper rookie PSA 10 is ~$1,400.

[2010GBPackers]

I think I am going to have to start a thread on "liquidity." This concept is ridiculous. It's a thing that sounds smart because it uses a fancy business term but in actuality it is not smart--quite the opposite actually.

"Oh, liquidity is really important because it means the card is easy to move and you can find comps!"

Finding comps is not that hard. Learn ratios. Learn how to use other players, other sets, other cards in the same set to ballpark. Learn how to list a card OBO to let offers roll in. Learn about a thing called the auction format which for any popular card ensures a market-clearing price.

Oh dear, my Optic Gold /10 Mahomes hasn't had a sale in months. What ever shall I do. Well if I really want to know the price there's actually quite a bit as I've explained! But actually, I'm content to let my "illiquid" asset (it's actually not truly illiquid) sit and grow and value. Maybe every now and then whip it out for a flex on the insta because unlike your "liquid" asset it isn't something that you see everyday, on every profile.

Now, liquidity does have benefits if you're trying to manipulate markets. A card that sells everyday is easy to hoard and pump. But this isn't the "virtue" of liquidity that is being touted to impressionable new investors.

"Liquidity" being touted as an argument in favor of base needs to get tossed in the waste bit, alongside "this card has room to grow because look at the (total outlier) Luka prizm pop report!" There are actual arguments for the importance of base--I've even written a post of them. But, yeah, there is virtually nil value to "liquidity" and yet I hear it touted daily as this big important thing that is worth huge premiums.

Best comment in the thread.

[regularp]

I sold mine a little below the peak. The prices were just insane.

[Nomad]

I wouldn't buy any Kobe card as an investment, unless it was top 100 and had a CSG 10 pop of under 100, with no silver foil or chrome parallel (errors ok). Then, I would aim for 8s thru 9s and pay a premium for raw.

[armoursave]

I think on-card auto is blue chip. Anything sticker will tank.

[k13]

And he keeps saying $150 to $200 which were prices before the basketball card boom lol, Curry Durant autos were also those prices then. What an idiot lmao

Maybe that should tell you something.

[Gem10collection]

Easy one here folks!

Buy Kobe (rare 90's, 2000's refractors, autos, panini parallels) and come back this time next year and I would not be surprised if it's 2x.

But, gees, who wants to wait one entire year?

[jzx1103]

Maybe that should tell you something.

Yes it tells me you're either an idiot or a troll, or perhaps both. Its a heck of an achievement to have achieved the kind of reputation you have on these boards.

[k13]

Yes it tells me you're either an idiot or a troll.

So you think people cared the same way about Kobe's auto then as they do now???

[Chris P]

So you think people cared the same way about Kobe's auto then as they do now???

As usual you change the narrative..you said nobody cared about kobe autos period which is ridiculous and dumb bc they still sold well BEFORE the pandemic and despite the market being saturated with them. Of course there's more interest now post death because he won't have anymore autos period

[jzx1103]

So you think people cared the same way about Kobe's auto then as they do now???

Its natural for human beings to want someone's autos more after they passed away, mainly because they know the person can no longer sign anymore and now there's a finite supply. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this simple logic??? :doh::doh::doh: I wanted a Kobe auto collection, but was not active buying them then because I thought Panini would have Kobe sign tons more for the next 20 years and I can get them for even cheaper. Who knew the big tragedy would happen so suddenly. I don't go ahead and bet on the person dying tragically at 42 years old. I also know alot of folks also sold Jordan and Lebron autos back in the late 2000s that they still liked because they thought they can rebuy them later at cheaper prices since Upper Deck was making them easier and easier to pull each year. Then they lost their license and rest is history. Its not that difficult of logic you numbskull lol.

[Chris P]

Its natural for human beings to want someone's autos more after they passed away, mainly because they know the person can no longer sign anymore and now there's a finite supply. Are you really that stupid that you can't comprehend this simple logic??? :doh::doh::doh: I wanted a Kobe auto collection, but was not active buying them then because I thought Panini would have Kobe sign tons more for the next 20 years and I can get them for even cheaper. Who knew the big tragedy would happen so suddenly. I know alot of folks also sold Jordan and Lebron autos back in the late 2000s that they still liked because they thought they can rebuy them later at cheaper prices since Upper Deck was making them easier and easier to pull each year. Then they lost their license and rest us history. Its not that difficult of logic you numbskull lol.

He won't respond to logic and facts..when facts are presented he goes to other threads to spew garbage or he ignores what you posted and keeps posting