If Topps could only release 12 products a year, which would you choose?

[mfw13]

So....fun thought exercise....if Topps could only release 12 product lines per year, which would you choose?

For the purpose of this thread, variations/updates of a product are considered to be a single product line as long as the utilize the same base card design.

To start the discussion, here are my twelve:

- Flagship (includes series 1/2/update, and Chrome)

- Heritage/HHN

- Archives

- Finest (I'd integrate Finest Flashbacks into regular Finest)

- Bowman/Bowman Chrome

- Big League (need one low-end product line)

- Stadium Club (no need for a separate SC Chrome product)

- Museum

- Five Star

- Tribute

- Tier One

- Topps Rip (really fun product, would lower the price point and make it a regular release, rather than online-only)

I've gotten rid of all the super-high end auto-only products that don't have base sets (i.e. Definitive, Diamond Icons, Dynasty, Inception, Luminaries, Sterling, Transcendent, Triple Threads). There are plenty of other products for people to gamble on, and you can't tell any of the high-end products apart since the designs are all virtually the same.

I've kept Big League as the low-end product line and gotten rid of Opening Day (since it has the same design as Flagship).

I've kept Museum due to it's better designs and gotten rid of Ginter and GQ, both of which have been around for too long and become very boring and repetitive design-wise.

For mid-level, I've kept Stadium Club and Finest and gotten rid of Gold Label, which never really caught on due to the fact that it's designs have never been as good as the original 1999-2000-2001 Gold Label designs.

Gotten rid of Fire, Gallery, and T206. None of them are very popular, and all could be inserts in other products if necessary.

[TarjetasBéisbol]

12? I wish they only did 3.

- Flagship (includes series 1/2/update, and Chrome)

- Heritage/HHN

- Bowman/Bowman Chrome

Everything else is over kill and a money grab as far as I am concerned.

[ThoseBackPages]

thats too many as it is lol

[Lonewolf]

Your first six:

- Flagship (includes series 1/2/update, and Chrome [Mid-Hi end])

- Heritage/HHN (Nostalgia)

- Archives (Nostalgia)

- Finest (I'd integrate Finest Flashbacks into regular Finest) (Mid-Hi end)

- Bowman/Bowman Chrome (Prospects)

- Big League (need one low-end product line)

- Stadium Club (no need for a separate SC Chrome product) (Mid-Hi end)

and either Tier One, Dynasty, or Tribute as the high-end - that's it.

All that other junk is superfluous and waters down the license/costs too much to design, market, and tool the presses...narrowing down the product offerings would mean potentially better quality control, more within product innovation, and hopefully better value.

[Hollywood42]

If we're counting S1/S2/Update as 1, and same as Bowman/Chrome and Heritage/HHN, then there's really only 8 that I'd want to keep for sure

1. Flagship- S1/2/U
2. Heritage/HHN
3. Bowman/Chrome
4. Bowman Draft
4. Topps Chrome
5. Allen & Ginter
6. Stadium Club
7. Triple Threads
8. Sapphire

If you wanted to add 1 high end, I'd be fine with adding Dynasty to the list. Also not against adding Topps High Tek or Inception, but not a big deal to me if those die either. Topps Now is kinda fun and we could add that too as long as they're selective enough with what gets a card, but I personally find a lot of the cards are events that are cool but not THAT cool (i.e. multi HR games)

[cardsin47]

I’m still getting used to the “only 12” from Topps, as our new normal!

[xTri]

1. Flagship + Update
2. Heritage + High Number
3. Topps Chrome
4. The Big 3 Bowmans
5. Sapphire
6. Stadium Club
7. Dynasty
8. Big League
9. Triple Threads
10. Tribute
11. Museum

and honestly ... 12. Stadium Club Chrome

I'm willing to bet SCC is gonna be a popular product.

[MeetTheMets]

Any list without Triple Threads is invalid. :)

[bblair_2002]

Topps (including Update I assume)
Heritage
Topps Chrome
Pro Debut (instead of Blowman)
Pro Debut Chrome (instead of Blowman Chrome)
Stadium Club
Finest
Big League
Triple Threads
Dynasty

[Mrpokey]

Flagship
All Bowman Chrome Products
Allen and Ginter

After that I don't care

[Chrisyork33]

12? I wish they only did 3.

- Flagship (includes series 1/2/update, and Chrome)

- Heritage/HHN

- Bowman/Bowman Chrome

Everything else is over kill and a money grab as far as I am concerned.

Agree with this

[oldgoldy97]

Topps Chrome
Bowman Chrome
Topps Sapphire
Ginter Chrome
Topps Black Chrome
Update Chrome

[seanbros55]

I could be completely happy with just these 6...

Flagship S1/S2/Update
Heritage/HHN
Chrome/Chrome Update
Stadium Club
Bowman/Bowman Draft
Dynasty

Everything else is superfluous/redundant.

[Mister2Bits]

1. Topps Flagship S1/S2/Update + Complete set variations and exclusives
2. Topps Chrome (Retail + Hobby) + Topps Chrome Sapphire (Online)
3. Topps Heritage (Retail + Hobby) + Heritage HN (Retail only)
3. Topps Allen & Ginter (Retail + Hobby) + Topps Ginter X as SP hits
4. Topps Stadium Club (Hobby Only - focus on auto's, no chrome at all) + Stadium Club Chrome (Retail Only - focus on chrome and refractors)
5. Some mixture of Five Star/Museum/Dynasty that focuses on game used memorabilia.
6. Topps Finest (hobby only)
7. Topps Big League (retail only)
8. 2 unique online exclusives that change each year

[jayjones82]

I’d also do away with redemptions and only have on-card autos in the higher-end products. Things like Triple Threads would be much more appealing if they’d get rid of sticker autos

[LittleJimmies]

Flagship 1, 2, Update
Topps Chrome
Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Bowman Draft
Topps Chrome Sapphire
Stadium Club Chrome
One of the 15 high-end products that all look the same
Bowman's Best - Just a fun product that provides a great checklist, fun designs, lots of hits, and at a reasonable price.

[The Accountant]

I wouldn’t change the way it is. Could you imagine the cost of products if we cut production in over half. Series 1 hobby would be $500 lmao.

[Boredlawyer]

1. Topps Flagship Series 1

2. Topps Flagship Series 2

3. Topps Update

4. Heritage

5. Bowman

6. Bowman Chrome

7. Bowman Draft

8. Tier One

9. Definitive

10. Allen & Ginter

11. Stadium Club

12. Dynasty

Never understood the love for Triple Threads. Sticker autographs with odd abbreviations for window relics. "435OPSCRER" or something odd. Don't get the love. Seems like everything the hobby doesn't like. All I think of with Triple Threads is the Rousey "First in her Class" card.

[Stech36]

1 February - Series 1. Archives and Stadium Club are inserts
2. March - Ginter, but more parallels/auto's.. I hate opening a box with three relics and that's it.
3. April - Bowman
4. May - Finest
5. June - Super High End Product , Definitive, Diamond Icons, Dynasty, Triple Threads all in one.
6. July - Topps Chrome - Sapphire becomes "ultra rare" parallel. 2/case or something
7. July - Topps Pro Debut
8. August - Mid Level Autograph/Memorabilia product. Five Star/Tier One/ etc. Just put it all in one product
9. September - Heritage.. Release it towards the end of the year, so no high number.
10. October - 2. Series 2/Update. Combined. Archives, Stadium Club, and Topps Chrome Update would be inserts
11. November - Bowman Draft. Put Rookie Chromes back in it.
12. December - Bowman's Best

[Dannymac910]

Flagship
Allen and Ginter
Gallery
Stadium Club
Heritage
Archives

That’s it.

[Chicosbailbonds]

Flagship
Heritage
Archives
Chrome
A+G
Stadium Club
Topps Now

I guess regular Bowman even though I hate it.

[Soxrule111]

Am I the only who who views S1, S2, Update, Chrome as 4 total releases?

[speedyjg13]

Flagship (S1, eliminate S2, and Update)
Heritage and HHN
Museum
Transcendent

[mfw13]

Am I the only who who views S1, S2, Update, Chrome as 4 total releases?

No.....but I stipulated that they should be considered one product line in my OP because they utilize the same card design, even though they are released separately.

Matt (the OP)

[pewe]

Topps Chrome
Bowman Chrome
Topps Sapphire
Ginter Chrome
Topps Black Chrome
Update Chrome


No Stadium Club Chrome?!? :(


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[Archangel1775]

12 isn't enough sets if you count them by series. There would be room for only 2 or so mid and high end sets after staples Topps,Bowman,Heritage and their Chrome counterparts

[MoreToppsPlease]

Flagship w/ flagship chrome & Ginter inserts released in four series throughout the year

Bowman w/ chrome released in two series - MiLB product only

Two “high-end”/expensive products

[Archangel1775]

Hobby Staples


Topps S1
Topps S2
Topps Update
Topps Chrome
Bowman
Bowman Chrome
Bowman Draft
Heritage
Heritage High
Allen & Ginter
Topps Finest
Stadium Club


Just not enough, there is zero high end no matter what you can logically combine.

[pewe]

Flagship w/ flagship chrome & Ginter inserts released in four series throughout the year

Bowman w/ chrome released in two series - MiLB product only

Two “high-end”/expensive products


Interesting re: Ginter inserts... assume you mean the minis only?

Would you keep flashback inserts in flagship? 30th anniversary, heritage, archives type things?

I’d love Stadium Club to go back to “high end” in your list


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[base set]

My new favorite baseball card expression here is definitely “money grab”

[fulltritty]

My 12 would be as follows:

1) Flagship (Series 1,2, Update with Chrome inserts, Chrome - include Sapphire versions in Chrome)

2) Heritage/Heritage High Number

3) Archives (but change the format to be designs that Topps used for Football, hockey, etc. and designs that were discussed but never used)

4) Finest (with Finest Flashbacks as inserts)

5) Bowman (Bowman, Bowman Chrome with Bowman's Best inserts, Bowman Platinum)

6) Qypsy Queen

7) Opening Day (but release later with photos of players actually on opening day and set includes all players who got into a game on that opening day stretch of games)

8) Stadium Club (with Chrome inserts)

9) Museum Collection

10) Triple Threads

11) Topps Moments & Milestones (bring it back with milestones achieved the previous year and all time milestones. Base, Black /25, Blue /10, Red 1/1 and chrome parallels)

12. Dynasty or Five Star for high end

[Raleigh504]

I would actually prefer they go back to what flagship used to do, release it in waves throughout the year/summer. I always hate seeing in series 1 players that signed with a different team in the offseason on their old team, otherwise to me the less other products then the better. Stinks that most cards aren't valuable like the older cards.

[VandyCards]

Flagship: 1, 2, Update

Bowman, Bowman International, Bowman Draft

Heritage

Heritage Minors

Topps Chrome

Topps High End Stuff I Will Never Afford

Bowman Best

I dunno...Ginter? Ppl seem to like that.


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[fulltritty]

I would actually prefer they go back to what flagship used to do, release it in waves throughout the year/summer. I always hate seeing in series 1 players that signed with a different team in the offseason on their old team, otherwise to me the less other products then the better. Stinks that most cards aren't valuable like the older cards.

They could also make the determination to hold certain players back to Series 2 that are in free agency or have high odds of being traded. That way they could get add them to their original team or new team in Series 2 and not have checklists clogged up with players no longer on a team.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Interesting re: Ginter inserts... assume you mean the minis only?

Would you keep flashback inserts in flagship? 30th anniversary, heritage, archives type things?

I’d love Stadium Club to go back to “high end” in your list



Yes, it might make more sense to only include the minis.

The Ginter minis, flashbacks, 30th anniversary, heritage, archives, etc. could all be flagship inserts, but maybe only include one of these in one of the first three series of the year, and all in the last.

[Mandy1320]

S1
S2
Update
Chrome
Sapphire
Five Star
Complete Set
Dynasty
A&G
Archives
Bowman
Bowman Chrome

[etherealsoc]

There's no way Topps will do any of this but here's what I would suggest:

1) Flagship, but it’s a 500-card set released in two series of 250 each year, with no gimmicks, no team cards, no checklists, etc. Topps Chrome and all variations are randomly inserted parallels.

2) Bowman, but it’s a 500-card set, 250 prospects, 250 veterans, released at once. Bowman Chrome and all variations are randomly inserted parallels.

3) Heritage, but it’s a 250-card set released at once. Inserts include Real One Autos and Archives autos. Heritage Chrome and all variations are randomly inserted parallels.

4) Opening Day, but it’s a 200-card set and uses different photos than flagship. 2-3 parallels and autos as inserts.

5) Stadium Club, but it’s a 500-card set released at once. SC Chrome and all variations are randomly inserted parallels.

6) Topps Transcendent, a briefcase of ultra-high end just as it is now.

7) Topps Members Only, a 250-1000 card set that features players requested by Topps users. A user orders a player and a card is made on-demand. If the player has already been ordered, another copy is printed. If the player is being ordered for the first time, another card is added to the set. At the end of the year the set size is based on the number of unique players that have been ordered. Mike Trout’s print run might end up at 40,000 cards, but my David Justice would be limited to 14 copies (me his two other collectors and our doubles lol).

And the biggest kicker in my vision would be that Topps Five Star, Dynasty, and Triple Threads would still exist, however, they would be randomly inserted in all Topps products! (except perhaps Opening Day to keep it low-end.) Yes, the price per pack/box/case would go up on all products, but sharing the high-end cards among all other products would even the playing field for all collectors while still allowing for the variety of design choices, etc.

[rcgdodge]

I only buy Flagship, Heritage and Stadium Club. Don't care about the rest.

[mfw13]

And the biggest kicker in my vision would be that Topps Five Star, Dynasty, and Triple Threads would still exist, however, they would be randomly inserted in all Topps products!

Agree that this would be a good idea, although since products already are stuffed with autos, I'm not sure how many more autos are needed.

Likewise, would love to see some of the On-Demand/Montgomery Club designs become inserts in other products instead of being stand-alone products.

[k13]

Topps series 1/2/update
Topps Chrome
Bowman Chrome/Draft
A few high end sets

Rest uneeded.

[AmericanFrog069]

To begin with the product that should come out last, I think there should a set that would be released at the end of the season, featuring every player who took part in at least one game that year. Players who changed teams get two cards. I'm actually really puzzled as to why that doesn't exist already.

Then, Opening Day and Big League (kids need choice, too)
Flagship (obviously, the hobby needs a, well, flagship product.)
Chrome
Heritage (I would get rid of Archives: it just gets too confusing/difficult to remember when the different designs were reused)
Allen & Ginter (I get that some have moved on from this product, but it still does it for me.)
High Tek (We need at least one product that plays with see-through designs.)
Inception (I find it very distinctive and it works. That said, I only get the cheap base cards, a good way to get my hards on nicer stock and fancier looking cards.)
Finest (Colors!!)
Bowman Chrome
Bowman's Best

I realize that, realistically, the hobby needs higher end stuff but that's not my cup of tea so I'll let others decides what needs to stay.

[D-Lite]

Honestly Tier One, Museum, Five Star, Triple Threads, Dynasty, and Tribute are one product to me. I don't see how that's 6 sets that people want.

[Yankees2020]

Topps
Topps Chrome
Bowman
Bowman Chrome

Throw the rest in the trash :coffee:

[whitmm]

You list 12 products, but that's 17-18 releases, depending if flagship chrome gets an update release as well. I think it should be 12 releases, one a month. I also believe that flagship should be a low-mid end product. It's a set builders release. I know it's got "the official rookie card," but there's no reason it should be over $100 for a hobby box. I'd eliminate Opening Day and just keep Big Leagues. OD is just cheaper flagship. Next, I'd get rid of Archives. No need to have a complete set that just recycles three past designs. I agree with D-Lite that those 6 products could be reduce to one National Treasues-esque product.

1. Series 1
2. Series 2
3. Update
4. Topps Chrome (one release, no update chrome)
5. Bowman
6. Bowman Chrome
7. Allen & Ginter (for the set collectors)
8. Heritage
9. High Number
10. One combined high-end auto heavy product
11. Big Leagues (one cheap fun rip)
12. Stadium Club or Heritage Minors

[tyrith]

So how does it actually help anyone to have fewer releases?

The coherent argument I see is that you're concerned about the overall hobby crashing from junk wax problems. The prices on sealed wax, at the moment, don't make it seem like that's coming anytime soon, though. If anything, wax prices keep going up.

It's harder and harder for people to find anything to rip if they don't have an unlimited budget. Isn't the solution to have more sets that can reach different parts of the demand spectrum? The alternative is to print more of the existing sets, but that only works if you're okay with either Prizm style parallels, where there are three different /50 parallels across a bunch of different products, or to dilute the number of #ed cards per box. People vehemently complain about both of those, but even with the current release load it'd be the only way to lower the cost of product.

If you don't want to do either, then there have to be more sets. People that PC players generally like more sets - it gives them something to chase. With parallels being what they are, no one is ever going to have a master set of a player anyway. And if you don't like the set - if you personally think it's trash for whatever reason - you can just not buy it.

As for my personal taste - do what you want, but I want more Topps Chrome Black, and Allen and Ginter Chrome just seems better and prettier than the normal version.

[CardboardCracka]

I'd keep Flagship S1, S2, Update, Topps Chrome, Heritage, Tier One, Definitive, Bowman/Chrome/Draft, Stadium Club and get rid of the rest.

To me Flagship is low end enough that opening day and big league are obsolete. I kept Tier 1 to have a mid level product that has on card vet autos. I kept Definitive to have one product with high end patch autos.

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[CardboardCracka]

I forgot about Heritage Minors. Let's keep that too!

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[whitmm]

So how does it actually help anyone to have fewer releases?

The coherent argument I see is that you're concerned about the overall hobby crashing from junk wax problems. The prices on sealed wax, at the moment, don't make it seem like that's coming anytime soon, though. If anything, wax prices keep going up.

It's harder and harder for people to find anything to rip if they don't have an unlimited budget. Isn't the solution to have more sets that can reach different parts of the demand spectrum? The alternative is to print more of the existing sets, but that only works if you're okay with either Prizm style parallels, where there are three different /50 parallels across a bunch of different products, or to dilute the number of #ed cards per box. People vehemently complain about both of those, but even with the current release load it'd be the only way to lower the cost of product.

If you don't want to do either, then there have to be more sets. People that PC players generally like more sets - it gives them something to chase. With parallels being what they are, no one is ever going to have a master set of a player anyway. And if you don't like the set - if you personally think it's trash for whatever reason - you can just not buy it.

As for my personal taste - do what you want, but I want more Topps Chrome Black, and Allen and Ginter Chrome just seems better and prettier than the normal version.

I don't think you have to go with more products. How many high end products are there where no one cares about the base cards? They are making products that cater specifically to the breakers. And how many of them include sticker autos? You could easily combine these sets and keep the print run equal to that of the multiple sets.

I don't entirely agree with your comment about PC'ers wanting more and more sets. I consider myself a set builder and collector, and while I have my PC, it's not entirely single player focused. But if I did, I would rather have 95% of a master set chasing a few white whales than be at 60% chasing a ton of random cards.

[actionbryan]

I only buy Flagship, Heritage and Stadium Club. Don't care about the rest.

I have a similar sentiment. My top 3 is different, but I see flagship and flagship chrome as being the only things I recognize as baseball cards. everything else is sports memorabilia topps releases to add their revenue line, which is their right to do.

And it's not that I don't enjoy the other products, but it all boils down to flagship.

[Keyser Soze]

I'd stick with 10.

Topps S1
Topps Update
Bowman Chrome
Bowman Draft
Heritage (adjusted to be released around time that HHN is so as to capture "new RCs")
Topps Chrome
Topps Chrome Sapphire/Update (the only Topps.com release)
A&G
Dynasty (need 1 high end, they just need to adjust to include low-#'d base cards)
Archives OR Stadium Club (make this the low-end offering that is retail heavy for kids)

[doowopbruce]

Just 1,2 update and Topps chrome.

[Hootiefish]

For basic collectors, it would be the following:

1) Flagship (S1/S2/Update - although I'd love it if they brought back the "Traded" name)
2) Heritage/HHN
3) Stadium Club
4) Finest - but only through the rebranded Finest Flashback
5) A&G
6) Big League (only one bargain brand needed)
7) Museum
8) Topps Chrome
9) Bowman
10) Bowman Chrome

For the breakers, I'd throw in:

11) Definitive
12) Transcendent (since breakers are saving so much money with fewer products)

I'd give them some leeway on still selling repack products, specifically Archive Signature Series Active and Retired.

[CoachBruno]

This is pretty close to what I'd want to see.

1. Flagship- S1/2/U
2. Heritage/HHN
3. Bowman/Chrome/Draft (consolidate this though. Turn Bowman and Bowman chrome into one release, with 3 of the 12 cards in the pack being chrome)
4. Topps Chrome
4. Topps Chrome Sapphire
5. Topps Finest
6. Stadium Club
7. One mid-range Patch/Auto-centric product
8. One high-end product that would produce the definitive baseball RPA. I think Dynasty is currently the closest.

BRING BACK THE CHASE INSERTS like Panini is doing with their Color Blast inserts. I miss 90's era inserts!


If we're counting S1/S2/Update as 1, and same as Bowman/Chrome and Heritage/HHN, then there's really only 8 that I'd want to keep for sure

1. Flagship- S1/2/U
2. Heritage/HHN
3. Bowman/Chrome
4. Bowman Draft
4. Topps Chrome
5. Allen & Ginter
6. Stadium Club
7. Triple Threads
8. Sapphire

If you wanted to add 1 high end, I'd be fine with adding Dynasty to the list. Also not against adding Topps High Tek or Inception, but not a big deal to me if those die either. Topps Now is kinda fun and we could add that too as long as they're selective enough with what gets a card, but I personally find a lot of the cards are events that are cool but not THAT cool (i.e. multi HR games)

[123precision]

Maybe if people would stop buying so many products, Topps would cut back to 12....which is still too many.

Flagship
Stadium Club
Big League
Heritage
Update
Bowman
Finest

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