Opinions/questions about gem mints of NT, flawless, etc.

[lietuvalabas]

I am into the finer cards, i despise modern day retail and all the stuff that clogs my ebay searches, basically im a hobby snob when it comes to picking stuff up. And though i am pro grading, i will almost never buy an already graded card because A. i'd rather make my own profits and B. i assume so many graded cards have been messed with.

Which brings me to my question. With the higher end cards usually being thicker card stock and hand packed (NT, flawless, immaculate) i have never, whether in a group break or purchase from ebay received a card from these sets that i would deem worthy of subbing to PSA or BGS that could get a gem mint grade. Am i just unlucky, or are the cards like these that are in gem mint grades mostly been trimmed/altered?

This isn't a whiny thread that wah wah i dont get cards that are gradable, i am more so just mesmerized that after seeing so many of these with almost always some corner damage that when i see one in a gem grade on ebay i wouldn't even consider buying even if i did buy graded, because i feel like there may be foul play. Am i tin foil hatty? maybe.. thoughts?

[MikawlBBC]

In my experience, thin and thick card grading is SOOOOO difficult. I am extremely picky on what I grade and personally, I find maybe 15-20% to consider worth grading and for thick and thin card stock, it probably drops to less than 5% worthy of grading. Unless the thick card is put in a 1 touch by the manufacturer, the cards that are packed loose in a cardboard box are extremely difficult to grade due to corner damage. I personally would consider a 9 for a thick card as equivalent to a gem mint card for standard stock. Perhaps there is some more leeway given to thick card stock by grading companies as they know how difficult it is to grade? I personally have only graded a few thick cards that were one touched upon release and have been fortunate thus far.

[lietuvalabas]

In my experience, thin and thick card grading is SOOOOO difficult. I am extremely picky on what I grade and personally, I find maybe 15-20% to consider worth grading and for thick and thin card stock, it probably drops to less than 5% worthy of grading. Unless the thick card is put in a 1 touch by the manufacturer, the cards that are packed loose in a cardboard box are extremely difficult to grade due to corner damage. I personally would consider a 9 for a thick card as equivalent to a gem mint card for standard stock. Perhaps there is some more leeway given to thick card stock by grading companies as they know how difficult it is to grade? I personally have only graded a few thick cards that were one touched upon release and have been fortunate thus far.

Yes! I almost referenced the one touched and then forgot. I think the only card ive ever submitted like that was a flawless diamond rookie card which yes is encased by panini. It got a 9. I though maaaaaybe I'll get lucky and the grader was drinking at lunch that day, but when I got the 9 i was like eh yeah thats probably the correct grade.

[jbettis32]

I do think thicker cards are more condition sensitive, but there are still many Gem copies of NT rpa, immaculate auto. However, they should have carried a premium for a gem copy, and expect a 8 to 9 is a norm.

[lietuvalabas]

I do think thicker cards are more condition sensitive, but there are still many Gem copies of NT rpa, immaculate auto. However, they should have carried a premium for a gem copy, and expect a 8 to 9 is a norm.

Right, and those are the ones I'm asking about, how many of those are untampered with though?

[KhalDrogo]

Right, and those are the ones I'm asking about, how many of those are untampered with though?
Most. Packaging isn't as bad as it was in the Exquisite days.

[MikawlBBC]

Right, and those are the ones I'm asking about, how many of those are untampered with though?

What are you thinking on how they would be tampered with? I wouldn't know how to doctor such a card... Would to black sharpie almost every Noir card lol.

[Johnsonev]

What are you thinking on how they would be tampered with? I wouldn't know how to doctor such a card...

Trimming. Edge wear on a card? Just slice some of the edge off and PSA/BGS often won't notice. It's especially prevalent on thicker cards and vintage cards.

[MikawlBBC]

Trimming. Edge wear on a card? Just slice some of the edge off and PSA/BGS often won't notice. It's especially prevalent on thicker cards and vintage cards.

Hmmm, I personally think the risk of trying to trim a thick card is way higher than the benefit unless you're comfortable with losing a lot of the value of the card. I'm sure it has been and can be done, but I would guess it doesn't compare to regular cards.

[bigjbasketball]

Honestly when I see thick RPAs with on-card autos that grade PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 or better, I always assume it’s trimmed. Like OP says, I’ve never in my life pulled a thick card from a pack that looked like it would gem. Every single one of them has some kind of corner damage or edge wear. Maybe I’m just extremely unlucky. With thinner cards, I only find about 15-20% that I would deem grade-worthy (and this is only considering cards that are worth grading, not commons or low-dollar cards), and I usually get around a 75% or better gem rate when grading. Every once in a while I’ll get a stinker or an angry grader and I’ll get like 50% to gem.

[MikawlBBC]

Honestly when I see thick RPAs with on-card autos that grade PSA 10 or BGS 9.5 or better, I always assume it’s trimmed. Like OP says, I’ve never in my life pulled a thick card from a pack that looked like it would gem. Every single one of them has some kind of corner damage or edge wear. Maybe I’m just extremely unlucky. With thinner cards, I only find about 15-20% that I would deem grade-worthy (and this is only considering cards that are worth grading, not commons or low-dollar cards), and I usually get around a 75% or better gem rate when grading. Every once in a while I’ll get a stinker or an angry grader and I’ll get like 50% to gem.

Agreed that the likelihood of encountering a raw gradeable thick card is extremely rare but I think the difference today are the cards one touched by Panini, I've had good luck with those being 9 or better.

[lietuvalabas]

Yeah I'm not saying none are legit, I'm just very skeptical when I see it, as much as I get soooo sick of seeing prizm, it's almost a shocker if you don't get atleast a 9. But like someone else said you get a noir, theres almost always some white on those black borders.

I guess a better question here would be to ask members (as I do think most the members here are on the up and up) how many of you have gotten gem grades on these types of cards being the original owner? Let's leave out acetate cards for this purpose, because outside surface issues those corners atleast on the front come out pretty clean.

[Bruin7]

None of my thick auto patch cards in my collection are slabbed yet. Haven’t decided if that’s the route. Imo they’re fine in magnetic one touch holders but at the same time 99% were personally pulled. Depends if OP is interested in selling down the road.

[lietuvalabas]

None of my thick auto patch cards in my collection are slabbed yet. Haven’t decided if that’s the route. Imo they’re fine in magnetic one touch holders but at the same time 99% were personally pulled. Depends if OP is interested in selling down the road.

As stated I don't have any real thick cards slabbed lol. Currently I think anything thick I have slabbed is like spectra or something that have a chrome, more likely to grade well finish and even those are 9s I think. I typically do well on the chrome type stuff gemming, but i think thats to be expected, thin cardstock etc.

[Vinny1984]

PSA 9 for thick stock is gem in my head.

[gomiamigo]

Same here on the 9s, I'd find it near-impossible to trust a 10/9.5.

[KhalDrogo]

I have two 2016 Flawless Brogdon base BGS 9.5s that I opened the Panini sealed case and subbed. I have a third which is going to PSA and will be a 9 due to a small surface mark on the front.

[lietuvalabas]

I have two 2016 Flawless Brogdon base BGS 9.5s that I opened the Panini sealed case and subbed. I have a third which is going to PSA and will be a 9 due to a small surface mark on the front.

For sure like someone else said this is a bit of a difference being encased at the factory. Good choice too, love brogdon.

[Mahomie]

PSA 9 for thick stock is gem in my head.

Pretty much the same for me too.

[KhalDrogo]

For sure like someone else said this is a bit of a difference being encased at the factory. Good choice too, love brogdon.
Honestly, it sort of amazes me that on-card autos ever are gem worthy. So much movement.