Question regarding TMALL releases

[thenightman]

So, I was wondering, how rare is this stuff? You got Select, Optic, Mosaic, and now Status. Was any of it released here in America, or was it exclusively a Chinese product? Will we be looking back 5 to 10 years from now talking about how much this stuff has exploded because it's so rare? Just wondering what your thoughts were.

[jbettis32]

To be honest, tmall boxes had much less print-run than his US half brother. If the card market haven't collapsed in five years, TMall boxes will absolutely out run the other boxes except hobby box, especially those with exclusive red wave and gold wave parallel.

[cowboyzqna]

I think tmall boxes and singles are vastly underrated / undervalued. They are very limited. In most instances the cards are very sharp.


I have a Hitlist of Zions that I would really like to own. They are at steal prices right now imho.

[gnrsportz]

Anybody have an idea of this Zion Tmall? Print run? Insertion rate? Going to send this for grading. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201228/ac1e21bb3534d4fc5304fbf47bf02aab.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jellyboy]

I believe its about 200-300 cases had been produced in each product.

[thenightman]

I figured they were significantly rarer than their US counterparts. Based on your responses it looks like I was correct. Most def, if you have some Zion or Ja you're doing well, lol.

[thenightman]

To be honest, tmall boxes had much less print-run than his US half brother. If the card market haven't collapsed in five years, TMall boxes will absolutely out run the other boxes except hobby box, especially those with exclusive red wave and gold wave parallel.

Thanks. Even if it does collapse, there will be a rebound, so these could just wind up being longer term holds under such a scenario.

[TimBuckTwo]

Select at 1500, Optic at 600, Mosaic lagging at buy price plus fees to get here (450) with plenty of room to run.

300 cases is what I heard for Optic and Select. I think Mosaic and Status may have been more. Bought 1 case of Mosaic which put a dent in my bankroll.

[k13]

Not as rare as you think.
Plus it just adds to the overall print run of the same cards.

Mosaic has no new numbered cards so its pointless.

There's gotta be something special to chase for it to be worth more.

[lietuvalabas]

Not as rare as you think.
Plus it just adds to the overall print run of the same cards.

Mosaic has no new numbered cards so its pointless.

There's gotta be something special to chase for it to be worth more.

this. and they really screwed the pooch not numbering the golds and stuff, just pretty meh to me.

[thenightman]

this. and they really screwed the pooch not numbering the golds and stuff, just pretty meh to me.

Has anyone tried to figure out the print run on golds and reds?

[lietuvalabas]

Has anyone tried to figure out the print run on golds and reds?

im not sure, but why not just number stuff? i could see back in the day before everything was a #ed card just short printing stuff, but today if its supposed to be scarce just number it..why wouldnt you?

[Giannis34fan]

Anybody have an idea of this Zion Tmall? Print run? Insertion rate? Going to send this for grading. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201228/ac1e21bb3534d4fc5304fbf47bf02aab.jpg



Sweet card! Did you pull it at Showtime cards with George?

[thenightman]

im not sure, but why not just number stuff? i could see back in the day before everything was a #ed card just short printing stuff, but today if its supposed to be scarce just number it..why wouldnt you?

Oh, definitely. Choosing to not number them just reeks of not giving a crap. That said, with Mosaic isn't it like one prizm per pack?

[k13]

I bought the football tmall mosaic because the golds were numbered /17.
At one per box.

[go_steelers07]

im not sure, but why not just number stuff? i could see back in the day before everything was a #ed card just short printing stuff, but today if its supposed to be scarce just number it..why wouldnt you?

It’s a China only release... maybe Panini doesn’t have the right equipment to stamp the cards with Chinese numbers.?.?.? :eek:

[Supercomputers]

It’s a China only release... maybe Panini doesn’t have the right equipment to stamp the cards with Chinese numbers.?.?.? :eek:

I think they know they would harm value doing that.

[gunnerpei]

The earlier releases (select, optic) were definitely more limited. I've been tracking Mosaic and they have been constantly stocking on the website - and like others have mentioned with no numbered cards, it's difficult to estimate print run. But I do feel like they printed much more Mosaic

The Status production should be in between earlier releases and Mosaic. AFAIK, each Status box contains 1 numbered card. Status is the only release that doesn't have a counterpart in the US i.e. you can get other forms of select, optic, mosaic in the US. And it is a relatively cheap "hobby" box, no guaranteed auto though.

I bought 10 boxes of Status and ripped 2 (fun and affordable rip, hit a Bazley and Okapla pink / 125), keeping the other 8 sealed for now. Status will always be inferior and carry less long-term value than the other 3 but the lower price means it shouldn't be too difficult to offload down the road and worst case a fun rip.

[k13]

If gold waves were so rare the box would not be so cheap right now.

Imagine it was two /17 per box....people would go bonkers.

[volblorx8634]

Not as rare as you think.
Plus it just adds to the overall print run of the same cards.

Mosaic has no new numbered cards so its pointless.

There's gotta be something special to chase for it to be worth more.

This shouldn't be understated. All they've done is find a way to create new parallels and print more product while making it seem like something different or special. Just like Fast Break, Choice, FOTL, etc.

[jellyboy]

Try to check out eBay selling or sold on particular player like ja, Zion, herro, coby, luka, trae, lebron, etc. You wil know those gold waves are rare.....

[lietuvalabas]

It’s a China only release... maybe Panini doesn’t have the right equipment to stamp the cards with Chinese numbers.?.?.? :eek:

I think they know they would harm value doing that.

haha chinese numbers, well rest assured im sure if certain collectors in china wanted a serial number, it could certainly be added, we've seen them do this with multiple 90's inserts/parallel sets. :coffee:

[go_steelers07]

haha chinese numbers, well rest assured im sure if certain collectors in china wanted a serial number, it could certainly be added, we've seen them do this with multiple 90's inserts/parallel sets. :coffee:

https://media.tenor.com/images/a0d6553db2f51c907c696cded82231ac/tenor.gif

[Kquinn]

If gold waves were so rare the box would not be so cheap right now.

Imagine it was two /17 per box....people would go bonkers.

I think this is a really good point, but not necessarily as evidence that they aren’t that rare.

My read is that Panini Tmall is trying to develop the Chinese market but A. wanted to start nice but small and can’t bank on a guaranteed sell outs like US products, and B. doesn’t want to undercut their other products.

I’m pretty confident that Optic boxes for example, have 1-2 golds with print runs not much more than 10-15 and 5-6 reds with print runs under 100. Boxes with SP cards like that don’t “fit” in their product lineup/hierarchy, so that’s why I think they’re not numbered. Tmall is printed in US and sent to China so it’s not the technology.

Status for sure has a much larger print run than optic/select, and I am guessing Mosaic is also more but less than Status. Both of those new ones have been released more as a drop of small batches and it’s also worth noting that they’re being sold through wechat now too and not just Tmall

[gnrsportz]

Sweet card! Did you pull it at Showtime cards with George?

No. I got it in a trade. Have tried to search the interweb for odds and so forth but cannot find anything about them. I just know that based on the US versions silvers and golds there is not many. Do an Ebay search for mosaic rookie scripts of Zion and there are less then 10 for sale.

[Promethius88]

Try to check out eBay selling or sold on particular player like ja, Zion, herro, coby, luka, trae, lebron, etc. You wil know those gold waves are rare.....

I have mentioned in another post that I'm sitting on a Select TMall gold wave Zion RPA. I heard there was one pulled in a break a day before mine was pulled and I had a guy contact me a couple months ago asking questions about mine as he had just pulled one. The first one, I was told, sold in a private sale. The guy that contacted me thought he might sell his sometime this spring. I'm still sitting on mine, for the time being.

That being said, even the regular gold waves, non-auto, just aren't out there. Either people are sitting on them or there's just not that many. The guess is that they were limited to 10 copies of each but I haven't seen any confirmation of that.

[Magicpenny]

None of it numbered, so they can produce the hell out of it.

[Promethius88]

None of it numbered, so they can produce the hell out of it.

Then why don't we see a bunch of the gold and red waves for sale?

[thenightman]

I have mentioned in another post that I'm sitting on a Select TMall gold wave Zion RPA. I heard there was one pulled in a break a day before mine was pulled and I had a guy contact me a couple months ago asking questions about mine as he had just pulled one. The first one, I was told, sold in a private sale. The guy that contacted me thought he might sell his sometime this spring. I'm still sitting on mine, for the time being.

That being said, even the regular gold waves, non-auto, just aren't out there. Either people are sitting on them or there's just not that many. The guess is that they were limited to 10 copies of each but I haven't seen any confirmation of that.

Definitely feels like a combination of both. If I had a gold of a premium player or rookie, I'd be sitting on it, for sure.

[thor_rider08]

A while back there was a blip about the select and optic gold waves being #d to 10 Confrimed by panini.
Originally we calculated the pr based off of the cases/boxes available.

I have not seen them say anything about the newer stuff though.
Hobby box=1600 or Tmall box=500... from that pov I would go with tmall.

[thenightman]

A while back there was a blip about the select and optic gold waves being #d to 10 Confrimed by panini.
Originally we calculated the pr based off of the cases/boxes available.

I have not seen them say anything about the newer stuff though.
Hobby box=1600 or Tmall box=500... from that pov I would go with tmall.

Thank you for that!

[thor_rider08]

Thank you for that!

No problem!
I have been hoarding these and my tally is 5 Cavs/4 Heat!
The interesting thing is PSA does not discern which one is which in the pop report 0_o/
https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-20-Lebron-PrizmOpticSelect-ETC/i-3p6BcMF/0/194a301a/L/118977447_189245695945853_7603696187926650656_n%281%29-L.jpg

[k13]

There's not many singles out there because wax is bought for investment not for opening and at these stupid prices who's stupid enough to open.

You know how "rare" Prizm Zions would be if wax started for the prices they are for both retail and hobby....you'd barely find any.

[thenightman]

No problem!
I have been hoarding these and my tally is 5 Cavs/4 Heat!
The interesting thing is PSA does not discern which one is which in the pop report 0_o/
https://photos.smugmug.com/2019-20-Lebron-PrizmOpticSelect-ETC/i-3p6BcMF/0/194a301a/L/118977447_189245695945853_7603696187926650656_n%281%29-L.jpg

Sweet cards! I'll definitely be looking at grabbing certain players. The way I look at it is, what's the difference between these and say 2012-13 prizm? That set is popular because it's the "first prizm release" and they're rare. TMall releases are the first cards that were specifically for the Chinese market. Rarity of these should mean something down the line, one would think.