BUYER BEWARE of Fake High-End BGS Slabs From Probstein: Luka and Zion Prizm

[3124508 on COMC]

Cross-posting from recent posts in this thread for additional eyes: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1423927

Buyer beware.

Fake slabs:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/363241371073
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373413179886
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373413180352
https://www.ebay.com/itm/383883540738


https://i.imgur.com/cM6Ycyr.jpg

[KhalDrogo]

Any contact with Ricky? Would be hilariously sad if he defers to BGS who then continues their radio silence.

[3124508 on COMC]

Any contact with Ricky? Would be hilariously sad if he defers to BGS who then continues their radio silence.

I can shoot him an email later. Doubt I will get a response.

[Asian62150]

That Luka looks like it would grade pretty well even if it wasn't in a fake slab. Why not just go the legit route?

What is the upside? A few hundred more dollars? That's worth a company like Prob or PWCC risking their reputation and integrity when their business is generating millions?

If I were running a high volume consignment/auction house, no way I'm touching anything that resembles a fake/fraud.

[KhalDrogo]

That Luka looks like it would grade pretty well even if it wasn't in a fake slab. Why not just go the legit route?

What is the upside? A few hundred more dollars? That's worth a company like Prob or PWCC risking their reputation and integrity when their business is generating millions?

If I were running a high volume consignment/auction house, no way I'm touching anything that resembles a fake/fraud.
These scammers are likely putting cards with surface indentations and scratches in these holders. Harder to see those issues in a BGS slab.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but the biggest problem for me is the possibility that BGS might reslab some of these. Take damaged card, put it in a fake slab, send to BGS for a $5 reslab. Don't see why it wouldn't happen since at least one of their more senior employees is not even aware of the problem.

[Totalpackage]

Is there any other way than the missing dot of patent number to spot a fake slab?

[KhalDrogo]

Is there any other way than the missing dot of patent number to spot a fake slab?
The font on the flip. These flips are also missing the serrated edge on the bottom. Although that may be present on real slabs too.

[WallyatJCCards]

no way I would notice the difference, until now. appreciate the heads up!

[Archangel1775]

Has BGS made an announcement on this issue yet? My confidence is waning in their service.

[Bob Ross]

I doubt BGS does anything to fix this. One would think they would build in holograms/etc into the label as PSA did. The gap between PSA and BGS keeps getting bigger.

[Totalpackage]

The font on the flip. These flips are also missing the serrated edge on the bottom. Although that may be present on real slabs too.

Do you mean the font on the gold, silver or white tags?

[Brobocop]

I doubt BGS does anything to fix this. One would think they would build in holograms/etc into the label as PSA did. The gap between PSA and BGS keeps getting bigger.

That’s easy to fake as well. Look at how many fraudulent MTG cards are out there. I wonder if you can create a watermark or laser etching? I think my Ray-ban sunglasses have a small laser etching on the side which I’m guessing is how you can tell a real from a fake. Honestly though, with how much technology is advancing, I’m not sure any method is 100% guaranteed to prevent this. Sad that grading can’t even be trusted. Feels like them my way to guarantee your card is legit is to get it out of a pack or box yourself.

[suknives]

Hear me out, but what if the cards are counterfeit as well, and that’s another reason why they’re going the fake slab route?

[orion9578]

Count me in as someone who'd be clueless and likely end up with one of these in my collection if it wasn't for threads like this. 37 years of collecting and you'd think I wouldn't be surprised by now BUT I constantly am. Thanks for the thread....and I'm off to look over ALL of my BGS slabs now(don't have a ton as I've mostly gone PSA, but still...scary!)

[This is]

Fat kid on the Block is a trimming twit
Chinese slabs make me sick
And all this fraud is a bummer
Is a bummer

[suknives]

Count me in as someone who'd be clueless and likely end up with one of these in my collection if it wasn't for threads like this. 37 years of collecting and you'd think I wouldn't be surprised by now BUT I constantly am. Thanks for the thread....and I'm off to look over ALL of my BGS slabs now(don't have a ton as I've mostly gone PSA, but still...scary!)


I think the problem is that if these fake slabs have been around for 2 years now, it’s pretty likely they’ve updated their manufacturing to perfectly match BGS slabs, and the differences we’re spotting now have probably already been fixed in recent batches of “fake slabs”.

Also, if they’re doing this with BGS, this is probably already happening with PSA slabs...

[orion9578]

I think the problem is that if these fake slabs have been around for 2 years now, it’s pretty likely they’ve updated their manufacturing to perfectly match BGS slabs, and the differences we’re spotting now have probably already been fixed in recent batches of “fake slabs”.

Also, if they’re doing this with BGS, this is probably already happening with PSA slabs...

I understand. I've seen threads here and there but if I remember correctly the slabs weren't well done? I might be misremembering(I'm old!). As far as my PSA collection goes, you're right, a few could be fake as well I suppose. But the bulk of my graded collection comes directly from me(or Jewcer now) grading said cards.

Guess I'll tread lightly in any future purchases. Ridiculous we as collectors have to deal with this but like I said, I guess I just shouldn't be surprised anymore!

[KhalDrogo]

I think the problem is that if these fake slabs have been around for 2 years now, it’s pretty likely they’ve updated their manufacturing to perfectly match BGS slabs, and the differences we’re spotting now have probably already been fixed in recent batches of “fake slabs”.

Also, if they’re doing this with BGS, this is probably already happening with PSA slabs...
BGS slabs are rudimentary. They are the equivalent of PSA slabs from the 90s, which were faked. There is not a single example of a fake PSA lighthouse flip.

[RogerGodahell]

Thanks CHYNA!

[tjforce]

Fat kid on the Block is a trimming twit
Chinese slabs make me sick
And all this fraud is a bummer
Is a bummer

Did we just get an LFO reference here?

[hawkfandan]

Thanks for posting. Need to keep these dirt bags on blast.

[Totalpackage]

I think Beckett really needs to upgrade their date base system. If we can check out the original cards' pictures those were graded would be much more helpful than the current limited info.

[thenwhatjk]

Fat kid on the Block is a trimming twit
Chinese slabs make me sick
And all this fraud is a bummer
Is a bummer

thumbsdown.gif

[YayNJ]

every single card should come with some sort of blockchain on the reverse + holo + QR code

it's the only way fraud can be beaten on stuff like trading cards.

I'm not sure why it's not happening already. As well as helping cut down on fraud it could also store information about the card - year, parallel type etc.

[suknives]

every single card should come with some sort of blockchain on the reverse + holo + QR code

it's the only way fraud can be beaten on stuff like trading cards.

I'm not sure why it's not happening already. As well as helping cut down on fraud it could also store information about the card - year, parallel type etc.

because that cuts into Panini's bottom line.

[Duvalier]

Has BGS made an announcement on this issue yet? My confidence is waning in their service.

It is unfathomable that they refuse to comment or address this particular issue.

[cashby]

Gotta lot of feeling these types of fakes are flooded on IG and razz feeds for sale lol

[KhalDrogo]

All the listings have been ended.

Would be nice for Probstein to forward the consignee's information to BGS.

[RogerGodahell]

I've read this thread and still have a hard time spotting them. You guys have some good eyes. For a minute i was wondering if they were actually fake or BGS got cheap and started ordering supplies/material from cheaper sources and maybe that's why they look so all over the place. That was just a thought i had but probably not. Either way they're pretty good fakes cause i have a hard time seeing them.

[RogerGodahell]

That’s easy to fake as well. Look at how many fraudulent MTG cards are out there. I wonder if you can create a watermark or laser etching? I think my Ray-ban sunglasses have a small laser etching on the side which I’m guessing is how you can tell a real from a fake. Honestly though, with how much technology is advancing, I’m not sure any method is 100% guaranteed to prevent this. Sad that grading can’t even be trusted. Feels like them my way to guarantee your card is legit is to get it out of a pack or box yourself.

That's a good idea. They need to do something like put a reflective hologram, something you can only see if you tilt them in the light, a bar code, strip in them like in money, or use a different flip with special ink like they do on money or something. A bar code that you could actually scan like PSA and or a tilted reflective watermark on the case would probably be a good start.

[PowellSportCard]

Is there any other way than the missing dot of patent number to spot a fake slab?
Its actually pretty easy. If you grab a real one and a fake one and put them side by side, just look at the spacing between the serial number and the subgrades. There is a huge difference between the two and is easier to see when you have a real one in hand to compare with. The spacing is way off from top to bottom as well.

[PowellSportCard]

All the listings have been ended.

Would be nice for Probstein to forward the consignee's information to BGS.

I would also forward to the police as well. This is Fraud, plain and simple. They are fraudulently creating slabs to gain a higher value on items they are selling. When money and services are involved, especially high dollar figures, I don't see any reason why criminal charges couldn't or wouldn't be approved. Until someone does jail time for this and sets a precedent to deter others, the problem will only get worse.

[GatorPie]

Okay, so if I understand this, the flips show legitimate serial numbers. Hence, if they are fake, there are at least two of the same SN cards floating around. However, all we've heard to this point is ONE instance where two cards had the same number, and BGS said it was a mistake in the system and they fixed it.

If this was such a widespread problem, wouldn't there be dozens of instances of duplicate serial numbers reported by now?

[auctionjmm]

Its actually pretty easy. If you grab a real one and a fake one and put them side by side, just look at the spacing between the serial number and the subgrades. There is a huge difference between the two and is easier to see when you have a real one in hand to compare with. The spacing is way off from top to bottom as well.

First time for me as well hearing about these fakes (although I don't deal in anything graded so it's not an area I pay much attention to), but this has been educational.

I'll add, the real ones have very precise alignment. I can see right away how the letters and numbers line up very crisp and there are defined columns. The fakes seem to have errant numbers/letters that peak out into the columns or are crooked, and make the whole slab look out of alignment.

[KhalDrogo]

Okay, so if I understand this, the flips show legitimate serial numbers. Hence, if they are fake, there are at least two of the same SN cards floating around. However, all we've heard to this point is ONE instance where two cards had the same number, and BGS said it was a mistake in the system and they fixed it.

If this was such a widespread problem, wouldn't there be dozens of instances of duplicate serial numbers reported by now?
Link please.

[KhalDrogo]

9 months!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210103/d7a1e01c90f65fe3a991e125bd989200.jpg

[GatorPie]

Link please.


Read through the other thread that the OP linked. Still only aware of one instance.

I find it pretty hilarious the PSA people can throw stones after the extensive trimmed cards scandal currently going on. Should I post the dozens of links of those for you?

Nothing I’ve seen so far leads me to believe this fake slab thing is even remotely an extensive problem.

So with BGS, you might get a fake slab. With PSA, you may get a trimmed card. Sounds like they both are wart covered companies to me.

[KhalDrogo]

Read through the other thread that the OP linked. Still only aware of one instance.

I find it pretty hilarious the PSA people can throw stones after the extensive trimmed cards scandal currently going on. Should I post the dozens of links of those for you?

Nothing I’ve seen so far leads me to believe this fake slab thing is even remotely an extensive problem.

So with BGS, you might get a fake slab. With PSA, you may get a trimmed card. Sounds like they both are wart covered companies to me.


Since you’re the one making things up, I think you should provide the link. Because here’s Jerome Murray’s response, which very clearly implies the slab is fake.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210103/1bb5056b8b06290c288b42e736dfbd74.jpg

[KhalDrogo]

I believe the reason we have not identified countless examples yet is that it looks like these fake slabs were being sold locally in China, and now secondary sales are happening in the US. And the slabs are close enough to the real thing that they easily pass as legitimate if you aren’t looking for it. It took until someone was able to locate the matching LeBron before anybody realized what was going on.

[GatorPie]

I believe the reason we have not identified countless examples yet is that it looks like these fake slabs were being sold locally in China, and now secondary sales are happening in the US. And the slabs are close enough to the real thing that they easily pass as legitimate if you aren’t looking for it. It took until someone was able to locate the matching LeBron before anybody realized what was going on.


Thanks, this constitutes an answer to my question.

[LTLurker]

every single card should come with some sort of blockchain on the reverse + holo + QR code

it's the only way fraud can be beaten on stuff like trading cards.

I'm not sure why it's not happening already. As well as helping cut down on fraud it could also store information about the card - year, parallel type etc.


This is really the best way. And considering Panini is already doing “blockchain” cards, what’s the reasoning for Beckett/PSA to not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[thenashcollecto]

So fake slabs with bgs or trimmed/altered cards from psa? Is that the summary? Thanks to those doing amazing detective work.

[RogerGodahell]

So fake slabs with bgs or trimmed/altered cards from psa? Is that the summary? Thanks to those doing amazing detective work.

Gotta do your research these days. Especially when it comes to high priced cards. Or pull them yourself and you know for sure.

Thankfully we've got some dedicated people on these boards who've done most of the heavy lifting. The good thing is this kind of stuff can be cleaned up if we can get some cooperation from the grading companies. I've been advocating for years that PSA, BGS whoever.... needs to start an image database. Not just a pop report but a picture/scan of the card along with it. I really think that would go a long ways towards cleaning up the altered card part of the hobby.

[Deadshot]

Since you’re the one making things up, I think you should provide the link. Because here’s Jerome Murray’s response, which very clearly implies the slab is fake.



I also got a little longer (but similar) response when I emailed him.

Got a longer response from Jeromy via email:

"We are aware of the situation and have already taken actions to protect our brand/services. If you look closely, there are differences with these cases/labels but please be sure to buy wisely. It is disappointing (but not surprising) what some people will do to deceive collectors but we are handling this matter quickly and as we see fit. Our goal is to protect our customers so rest assured, BGS will continue to offer the most trusted services/products in the industry"

I emailed back to see if he would confirm which slab was fake and never received a response.

[KhalDrogo]

I emailed back to see if he would confirm which slab was fake and never received a response.
Shocker. Maybe send him these new slabs for comment?

[Inferno]

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

[RogerGodahell]

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

Well they gotta do something because ignoring it is only going to kill them as they lose even more of the market share to PSA.

Maybe they just don't care because business is so good right now but that will bite them in the ass eventually. And it's a terrible look imo.

[hxcmilkshake]

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.PSA has changed their design how many times? And it will be a money maker anyway as the die hards will pay to reslab.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.
Uh, for starters they could acknowledge it with something more than a tweet. Then they can let everyone know how long they've known about it. Then they could provide a guide for how to identify a fake. Then they could create a more secure slab.

[rohara99]

Has Beckett said they're NOT making new flips? I'd wager they have something in the works.

Also does anyone believe that PSA's newest flip can't be knocked off? LOL. I'd also wager that knockoff PSA flips are in the works... and shocker! They can knock off holograms.

[KhalDrogo]

Has Beckett said they're NOT making new flips? I'd wager they have something in the works.

Also does anyone believe that PSA's newest flip can't be knocked off? LOL. I'd also wager that knockoff PSA flips are in the works... and shocker! They can knock off holograms.
Not one, but two requests to prove a negative in one reply? Let me know when you find a fake PSA lighthouse flip, then we can have this discussion.

[Deadshot]

I really don't know what people are expecting Beckett to do about this. They aren't the ones making these fake slabs

Even if they came out with a new slab design and flip label tomorrow it won't change the millions of cards already slabbed in this faked design. The brand of the BGS slab as we know it has been around for like 20 years and is almost too engrained in the hobby to be completely revamped on a whim.

There will always be people that expect instant changes, but I think there have been some very reasonable approaches from disappointed collectors/customers to this situation as well.

I encouraged people to email Beckett about the situation and provided a couple of sample questions. Here's the sample message I provided. I think if they would clarify the differences in slabs it would help both us and them.



"Dear Beckett Grading,

1. Where can I get some sort of clarification regarding real Beckett slabs and the recent counterfeit slab scandal?

2. What are you doing to safeguard your customers and your product going forward?

Thanks!"

[auburn35]

Very nice, seeing the fake slabs pulled and even better to see the Ronaldo removed from the slab.

Okay, so if I understand this, the flips show legitimate serial numbers. Hence, if they are fake, there are at least two of the same SN cards floating around. However, all we've heard to this point is ONE instance where two cards had the same number, and BGS said it was a mistake in the system and they fixed it.

If this was such a widespread problem, wouldn't there be dozens of instances of duplicate serial numbers reported by now?

According to this Instagram user, there have been 57 fake slabs identified, since the fake Lebron Prizms were discovered.
Even with a response from Beckett, that number is only going to increase with more collector awareness.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJmaSjgl9Ay/
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50798035747_119a196bb2_c.jpg

[auburn35]

Here's another fake slab being sold on eBay, along with a photo of the legit BGS case that was sold via PWCC.

Fake Beckett case and label.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Panini-Prizm-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-290-BGS-PRISTINE-10-STUNNING-CARD/224158457028?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D6bff01414b494c1c8f7ce0f9258b247b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D224158457028%26itm%3D224158457028%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Adb9dd915-4f13-11eb-aafc-3ea967181fe2%7Cparentrq%3Ad0f10d481760a6e5b000d2f8ffef77dc%7Ciid%3A1

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50801752473_d1b55a7f19_c.jpg

The BGS case and label that were used for the fake.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2013-panini-prizm-giannis-1956200000

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50801752488_82a1af0cd4_c.jpg

[sethc1020]

Here's another fake slab being sold on eBay, along with a photo of the legit BGS case that was sold via PWCC.

Fake Beckett case and label.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Panini-Prizm-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-290-BGS-PRISTINE-10-STUNNING-CARD/224158457028?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D6bff01414b494c1c8f7ce0f9258b247b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D224158457028%26itm%3D224158457028%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Adb9dd915-4f13-11eb-aafc-3ea967181fe2%7Cparentrq%3Ad0f10d481760a6e5b000d2f8ffef77dc%7Ciid%3A1

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50801752473_d1b55a7f19_c.jpg

The BGS case and label that were used for the fake.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2013-panini-prizm-giannis-1956200000

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50801752488_82a1af0cd4_c.jpg

Wow!!! Other than the perforation these are almost identical!!! This is getting scary! I need to look through my entire collection now!

[KhalDrogo]

Would like to know from BGS if any of these fake slabs have been sent in for reslabbing.

[superdan49]

Nice work by Cardporn compiling all these fake BGS slabs.

And of course when you expose fraud, you get the hate. This from a fake BGS-slabbed Luka Silver Prizm he posted:
https://i.imgur.com/LyXoSIu.png

[clockaday]

every single card should come with some sort of blockchain on the reverse + holo + QR code

it's the only way fraud can be beaten on stuff like trading cards.

I'm not sure why it's not happening already. As well as helping cut down on fraud it could also store information about the card - year, parallel type etc.


To piggy back with agreement here, and I have suggested this to PSA/BGS to associate cards on the blockchain. This will truly prevent scam/fraud/fakes and they would need to create a private key for each card and slap it on with a secure QR code/RFID chip on the graded slab. They cannot duplicate the code/RFID chips and problem is solved. People will pay $100/card/grade to know it cannot be duplicated.
STRAIGHT GAME CHANGER. If any of the companies like PSA/BGS/SGA does this first will be the winners in the graded world.

Problem will only get worse, and this will destroy the hobby world.

I REALLY REALLY HOPE SOMEONE IS DEVELOPING THIS.

[auburn35]

Here's another interesting one.

The real BGS case (didn't find an image) originated from a known card trimmer and Blowout member Brandon Taing (IDOL), so both the fake and real BGS cases are possibly fraudulent.

Here's the Blowout thread from Idol, showing off the BGS submission with this BGS # 7254418
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=320673

Current eBay listing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Topps-Chrome-111-Lebron-James-RC-Rookie-BGS-9-5-W-10-PSA-10-easy-GEM/154058286314?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Df4c35b99ccde45e19d24d251b955ada4%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D154058286314%26itm%3D154058286314%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A7986a5df-4fe3-11eb-9039-2663f74ce7fa%7Cparentrq%3Ad641b0821760a6e5cd47ecc5ffd96c99%7Ciid%3A1

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gUAAAOSw~7FfRFfV/s-l1600.jpg

The fake case and label (poor image but possibly the same fake) was also sold on March 21, 2020
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-8669/25996808.JPG
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50806193047_474762ebf1_c.jpg

[chuckerrrr]

Here's another interesting one.

The real BGS case (didn't find an image) originated from a known card trimmer and Blowout member Brandon Taing (IDOL), so both the fake and real BGS cases are possibly fraudulent.

Here's the Blowout thread from Idol, showing off the BGS submission with this BGS # 7254418
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=320673

Current eBay listing
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Topps-Chrome-111-Lebron-James-RC-Rookie-BGS-9-5-W-10-PSA-10-easy-GEM/154058286314?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Df4c35b99ccde45e19d24d251b955ada4%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D154058286314%26itm%3D154058286314%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A7986a5df-4fe3-11eb-9039-2663f74ce7fa%7Cparentrq%3Ad641b0821760a6e5cd47ecc5ffd96c99%7Ciid%3A1

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gUAAAOSw~7FfRFfV/s-l1600.jpg

The fake case and label (poor image but possibly the same fake) was also sold on March 21, 2020
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-8669/25996808.JPG
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50806193047_474762ebf1_c.jpg


Brandon the guy who was at a Kids party for 2 days or something like that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

The fake case and label (poor image but possibly the same fake) was also sold on March 21, 2020
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-8669/25996808.JPG
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50806193047_474762ebf1_c.jpg
Wow..

[Deadshot]

Thank you - keep posting these as you guys find them.

[KhalDrogo]

Thank you - keep posting these as you guys find them.
Have to think there are probably hundreds if not thousands of these out there. And there is real potential that the scammers have since created a more sophisticated slab that looks like the real deal.

[auburn35]

Have to think there are probably hundreds if not thousands of these out there. And there is real potential that the scammers have since created a more sophisticated slab that looks like the real deal.

I'm also leaning towards this opinion and have to think the number of fakes is only going to increase with time. Beckett continuing to ignore the problem, isn't helping either.

[KhalDrogo]

I'm also leaning towards this opinion and have to think the number of fakes is only going to increase with time. Beckett continuing to ignore the problem, isn't helping either.
Judging by the number of replies to this thread, their fans don’t care much either.

[Tallguy1991]

After going to China and touring factories as a part of my old job let me just say....there’s got to be fake flips from bgs/psa/even sgc floating around more than we realize. Obviously they’d run into the limitation of duplicate serials etc but I’d put everything I own on the assertion that if there’s a hologram/sticker/case/any other authentication method the 3PGs have engineered, there are people over there who can easily reverse engineer usually a perfect copy but at worst a 99 percent correct copy. China is the worlds 2nd largest economy, soon to be largest, and at least 10% and probably far more of their entire economy is counterfeiting. Plus, with the way production on these things work it wouldn’t surprise me to know the holograms/flips were designed or mass produced in China, and god knows they know how to use sonic welders. They have villages of people faking complex designer items and iPhones and jewelry and sneakers and cars and even a village that is dedicated to making expert level fake oil paintings. They can absolutely fake a graded piece of cardboard. Especially given the massive spike in popularity and pricing in the hobby and paninis dedication to cultivating the Chinese market, I’d say it’s inevitable.

Edit: according to Forbes, in 2020 sales of counterfeit goods reached at least $2 trillion globally, and 80 percent (minimum) of counterfeit goods originated in China.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RogerGodahell]

That's why you've got to stay one step ahead of them. Last i knew they can't make perfect copies of the U.S. dollar. No one can except the U.S. treasury. At least PSA tries to stay ahead of the curve and keeps reinventing their holders. They have barcodes, holograms. What does BGS have ? Nothing. They've never changed their design. They won't even address the issue. They just continue to ignore it like it doesn't exist.

[1980bust]

To piggy back with agreement here, and I have suggested this to PSA/BGS to associate cards on the blockchain. This will truly prevent scam/fraud/fakes and they would need to create a private key for each card and slap it on with a secure QR code/RFID chip on the graded slab. They cannot duplicate the code/RFID chips and problem is solved. People will pay $100/card/grade to know it cannot be duplicated.
STRAIGHT GAME CHANGER. If any of the companies like PSA/BGS/SGA does this first will be the winners in the graded world.

Problem will only get worse, and this will destroy the hobby world.

I REALLY REALLY HOPE SOMEONE IS DEVELOPING THIS.

$100 per card would kill the grading industry - or at least a huge portion of it. While I agree it's a great idea, do you really think they have the appetite to elevate their service even further out of the hands of people than it currently is?

On high-end cards it absolutely makes sense to have this level of security. Everything else? Nah. Who's gonna pay $100 per card when they're submitting bulk lots of crap mid-tier base cards?

[GatorPie]

Judging by the number of replies to this thread, their fans don’t care much either.
It's funny. After the umpteenth thread with trimmed cards ending up in PSA holders, it doesn't seem like their fans care much either.

[aroyjetson]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miguel-Cabrera-2013-Topps-Tribute-Auto-Gold-15-WBC-WTA-MC2-Graded-9-5-Gem-Mint/143885307843?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Purchased this and found NO PAT period or no period on bottom back of slab.
Called BGS and he verified slab was good.
Only Beckett stamped on top edge;

[Deadshot]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miguel-Cabrera-2013-Topps-Tribute-Auto-Gold-15-WBC-WTA-MC2-Graded-9-5-Gem-Mint/143885307843?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Purchased this and found NO PAT period or no period on bottom back of slab.
Called BGS and he verified slab was good.
Only Beckett stamped on top edge;

Yeah, this was slabbed in 2016. I don't think they changed to the most recent slab until 2017, right?

[3124508 on COMC]

Yeah, this was slabbed in 2016. I don't think they changed to the most recent slab until 2017, right?

It's a different slab used for either thick cards, cards with an auto chip, or some other factor. Not 100% sure, but that's the two likely possibilities.

[clockaday]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miguel-Cabrera-2013-Topps-Tribute-Auto-Gold-15-WBC-WTA-MC2-Graded-9-5-Gem-Mint/143885307843?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Purchased this and found NO PAT period or no period on bottom back of slab.
Called BGS and he verified slab was good.
Only Beckett stamped on top edge;

The ones with Autos for BGS should not have the serial numbers on them. Mine does not as well.

[clockaday]

$100 per card would kill the grading industry - or at least a huge portion of it. While I agree it's a great idea, do you really think they have the appetite to elevate their service even further out of the hands of people than it currently is?

On high-end cards it absolutely makes sense to have this level of security. Everything else? Nah. Who's gonna pay $100 per card when they're submitting bulk lots of crap mid-tier base cards?

The $100 a grade should really be for top tier cards that want it on the blockchain. I say its worth it if your card is 1K or higher. It's optional.

[rohara99]

It's funny. After the umpteenth thread with trimmed cards ending up in PSA holders, it doesn't seem like their fans care much either.

No kidding.

Not to mention the thought that a silly hologram is stopping thief's from knocking off PSA slabs.

And not to mention that you could crack a new PSA slab, steal the flip, use it in a fake slab with a crappy card and then simply resubmit the card to PSA again. Rinse and repeat.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this stuff out. I'd bet its already happening.

[KhalDrogo]

No kidding.

Not to mention the thought that a silly hologram is stopping thief's from knocking off PSA slabs.

And not to mention that you could crack a new PSA slab, steal the flip, use it in a fake slab with a crappy card and then simply resubmit the card to PSA again. Rinse and repeat.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this stuff out. I'd bet its already happening.
Just let us know when you find one example. Shouldn’t be too hard for you.

[Duvalier]

Just let us know when you find one example. Shouldn’t be too hard for you.

You're trying too hard

[Deadshot]

This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it.

[Duvalier]

This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it.

And thank you, for all that you and the others are doing to bring this to everyone's attention.

[auburn35]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Miguel-Cabrera-2013-Topps-Tribute-Auto-Gold-15-WBC-WTA-MC2-Graded-9-5-Gem-Mint/143885307843?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Purchased this and found NO PAT period or no period on bottom back of slab.
Called BGS and he verified slab was good.
Only Beckett stamped on top edge;

As others mentioned, not all BGS cases have the patent identified.
The thicker cases like this usually don't have the patent mark but with all the fake and altered cards popping up, nothing wrong with really inspecting your purchases.

[auburn35]

Unfortunately this card has already sold (Probstein123) but hopefully the buyer comes across this thread and can work something out. The value has seen a nice bump, so even a refund still somewhat hurts.

Fake BGS 9.5 (9723660) 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan RC
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-2164/30332100.JPG
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-2164/30332100_01.JPG

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50816295372_a90498a0d6_c.jpg


Here's the card that was used to create the counterfeit Beckett case and label.
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0517/03/1986-fleer-basketball-michael-jordan_1_b154387906c0ac0d6a4805583bb60833.jpg
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images2/1/0517/03/1986-fleer-basketball-michael-jordan_1_b154387906c0ac0d6a4805583bb60833.jpg
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1986-fleer-basketball-michael-jordan-1866197383

[TFP]

If the PAT code and tag perforations aren’t enough, the Font on the subgrades of fakes are slightly different.


Here's another fake slab being sold on eBay, along with a photo of the legit BGS case that was sold via PWCC.

Fake Beckett case and label.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Panini-Prizm-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-290-BGS-PRISTINE-10-STUNNING-CARD/224158457028?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3D6bff01414b494c1c8f7ce0f9258b247b%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D224158457028%26itm%3D224158457028%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3Adb9dd915-4f13-11eb-aafc-3ea967181fe2%7Cparentrq%3Ad0f10d481760a6e5b000d2f8ffef77dc%7Ciid%3A1

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50801752473_d1b55a7f19_c.jpg

The BGS case and label that were used for the fake.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2013-panini-prizm-giannis-1956200000

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50801752488_82a1af0cd4_c.jpg

[GatorPie]

This doesn't have to be a "one company against the other" issue. We're trying to stop fraud and the whole industry will be better for it.
Exactly, thanks to the guys that are discovering this stuff. It's rather mind blowing.

[KingLBJMJ]

These scammers are likely putting cards with surface indentations and scratches in these holders. Harder to see those issues in a BGS slab.

I mentioned this in the other thread, but the biggest problem for me is the possibility that BGS might reslab some of these. Take damaged card, put it in a fake slab, send to BGS for a $5 reslab. Don't see why it wouldn't happen since at least one of their more senior employees is not even aware of the problem.

I thought, BGS will re-asses your cards when you want to re-slab? Isn't it almost the same when you submit a RAW grade? they will evaluate again? We'll that's just messed up. I was thinking BGS is one of the toughest to scam in terms of slab. Back to raw cards I guess. Are the serial numbers matching at least?

[KhalDrogo]

I thought, BGS will re-asses your cards when you want to re-slab? Isn't it almost the same when you submit a RAW grade? they will evaluate again? We'll that's just messed up. I was thinking BGS is one of the toughest to scam in terms of slab. Back to raw cards I guess. Are the serial numbers matching at least?
They don’t reassess unless you ask them to. That would be a graded card review. It’s only $5-7 for them to crack and reslab.

[auburn35]

This one is fairly interesting and possibly provides a lead on a source of the fakes, as both the real and counterfeit BGS graded cards were listed and sold at the same time. Both the real and counterfeit BGS 9.5 are identified as selling on September 29, 2020

Another Fake BGS 9.5 (12150324) 1986-87 Fleer #57 Michael Jordan RC, sold via Probstein123

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50819263467_d64ed72c18_c.jpg
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-2164/31623844.JPG
https://cdn.vintagecardprices.com/media-2164/31623844_01.JPG


While the counterfeit BGS case was listed and being sold with Probstein123, the legit BGS case that was used to create the counterfeit label and case was simultaneously being sold by the Beckett submitter. Seller happens to be superior sports investments (SSI), an account linked to a numerous altered cards.
Is SSI just unlucky, a card from their graded submission was used by a scammer and listed/sold on the exact same day?

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1276110&highlight=altered
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1277299
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1285940&highlight=trimmed

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50818428058_e021eb6715_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50818592813_0f8623aabb_b.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50818592783_d60c2e320e_b.jpg

[auburn35]

If the PAT code and tag perforations aren’t enough, the Font on the subgrades of fakes are slightly different.

Correct. There are several differences between the real and counterfeit holders.

[KhalDrogo]

Probably coincidence. I do wonder how these guys are picking which cards to fake. Seemingly a very random assortment.

[auburn35]

Yeah, maybe a clear pattern will develop with time and unfortunately, more examples.

[Deadshot]

More info about the MJ here...wow

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ3m8kXMK1M/

Basically, SSI sold the real cert # and Probstein sold the fake consigned one ON THE SAME DAY.

[patchgenie]

Fat kid on the Block is a trimming twit
Chinese slabs make me sick
And all this fraud is a bummer
Is a bummer

the great Luka Doncic, Jersey 77.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

There is no consequences for these forgers and scammers. Why wouldn’t they just keep doing it? It’s free money and there for the taking. Panini publicly said 9 years ago that they would implement a patch ID system at the same time as they announce their rewards program. We see where their priorities are. Greed runs this industry because it’s certainly no longer a hobby. It’s truly the Wild West. No regulation, no rules, no integrity.

This starts from the top. All the card manufacturers, grading companies, and many distributors are complicit in the rampant fraud. As I’ve said before I’m sure there is inside people at all these companies that know what’s going on and take part in it. Here’s hoping that one day the FBI treats this like they would art or currency fraud.

[Pat3ntP3nd1ng]

Once there are laws created and enforced that make the manufacturing and/or selling of forged goods (cards) having significant consequences then you might see a reduction in fraud. This would hold major consignors responsible for verification. This becomes particularly important as the value of the items increase. It would work similar to the law that prohibits the receiving of stolen goods. It takes the ignorance plea out of the equation and reintroduces accountability. I don’t care what excuse the major consignors have i.e.
there is just too much inventory coming in to check all the cards. That’s bull ��. I bet if they knew they’d be fined they would find the time.

The fact of the matter is they could care less about the authenticity of what they’re selling. They rely on us to point out their ineptitude and then masquerade as they are on top of it when they delist it. They wait a few months or even weeks sometimes then its right back up for sale. Maybe once they get fined enough and in some cases criminally charged it will force them to demand changes from the card manufacturers and grading companies.

Enforcement of crimes is the only deterrent.

[KhalDrogo]

Owner of the legitimate copy of the fake sold in August has come forward. Don’t think it’s wise for BGS to continue to ignore this issue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ37Q9FsmVY/?igshid=1d79ft2gxhydi

[auburn35]

Owner of the legitimate copy of the fake sold in August has come forward. Don’t think it’s wise for BGS to continue to ignore this issue.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJ37Q9FsmVY/?igshid=1d79ft2gxhydi

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to see the information making the rounds and
like this owner of the real BGS case, I hope the buyers of the counterfeits can also catch wind of the issues with their purchases.

Also, yesterday we did get some new discussion on the topic from Beckett, Dr. James Beckett.
https://youtu.be/nbsBTIoNU00?t=1019

[KhalDrogo]

Thanks for sharing this. It's good to see the information making the rounds and
like this owner of the real BGS case, I hope the buyers of the counterfeits can also catch wind of the issues with their purchases.

Also, yesterday we did get some new discussion on the topic from Beckett, Dr. James Beckett.
https://youtu.be/nbsBTIoNU00?t=1019
Jim is a moron. He can go ahead and post up the examples he's referencing. The BGS slab is also as simple as they get. Not hard to replicate. To think that educating the consumer on what a real slab should look like would give the bad guys some secret information is such a crock of BS.

[auburn35]

For sure. If they haven't already done so, it's only a matter of time until the people counterfeiting the labels and cases catch up.

[Deadshot]

He went from "all" of the slabs to "many" and then immediately after "several." Then the defense of "look at the card." Get outta here.

[RogerGodahell]

His defense of "you should look at the card" would put BGS out of business. Why did they ever start a grading company then? I mean he's not wrong by saying that you should look at the card. But let's be realistic the grade can add a lot of value to the card. Sometimes it's not so obvious to spot the difference between a 9 and 9.5 but there is quite a difference in price. It's not a good enough answer imo.

[KhalDrogo]

He went from "all" of the slabs to "many" and then immediately after "several." Then the defense of "look at the card." Get outta here.
Yeah, but are you buying the card or buying the slab? If you're buying the card, who cares if you buy a real card in a fake slab? Am I following his argument correctly?!

[Deadshot]

Yeah, but are you buying the card or buying the slab? If you're buying the card, who cares if you buy a real card in a fake slab? Am I following his argument correctly?!

Yeah a slab company starts telling people to buy the card and not the slab lol

They're also a media company and they can't effectively communicate to customers without putting the onus back on them. It's comical.

[auburn35]

Not as valuable as the Jordan RC and unfortunately not the best photos but this counterfeit Luka Prizm BGS 10 (11324927) expands the timeline of these fakes into 2019.

Active listing of the BGS counterfeit, with a really low quality scan but the label, case and card give it away.
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/293501027159
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50822771901_b54afb2523_o.jpg

First appearance of the counterfeit that I could find and once again passed through Probstein12 on November 25, 2019
Couldn't find a high quality photo from the listing but even with this low quality image, it's clearly not the same label, case or card as seen in the legit BGS case. Use the horrible eBay scan to assist with the comparison between the fake and real BGS cases.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50822721917_953e021cfd_c.jpg


Here's a couple sales (one before and one after the counterfeit first appears) of the legit BGS case and label.

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/2018-panini-prizm-luka-doncic-rookie-2017149414
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/images1/1/0819/21/2018-panini-prizm-luka-doncic-rookie_1_363eb0bb53f5e326e20034df0ba15b3d.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50822721912_c7f78b9b47_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50822626976_61714a22db_c.jpg

[KhalDrogo]

My guess is that the fakers are based in Asia. Whatever they can’t move locally, they are sending to Probstein.

[superdan49]

When did Beckett first learn about the fake slabs? To me, that is the key question.

[superdan49]

Yeah, but are you buying the card or buying the slab? If you're buying the card, who cares if you buy a real card in a fake slab? Am I following his argument correctly?!

That is his argument. I understand he wants to defend the company that bears his name, but this was a shameful answer.

[duron]

Jimmy Becketts literally called it a false dichotomy, because, uh, you know, it’s not as many cases as the conspiracists claim? Or something? Yea, that!

[rohara99]

Unless I'm mistaken, Jim sold the company and is long gone and not even part of it anymore. He can comment on the situation but doesn't speak on behalf of Beckett.

[duron]

Unless I'm mistaken, Jim sold the company and is long gone and not even part of it anymore. He can comment on the situation but doesn't speak on behalf of Beckett.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/534c038826f2ab2c9450d75c212be19d/tenor.gif

[auburn35]

When did Beckett first learn about the fake slabs? To me, that is the key question.

Based on response from BGS (Jeromy Murray), they became aware of and took action to protect the brand, sometime on or before November 12, 2020.

However, even towards the end of December, at least one BGS representative wasn't aware of the problem/corrective action and claimed the cases were good.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50823603252_85d5422f60_o.jpg

[KhalDrogo]

I think Charles’s response indicates that the company has reviewed the fakes and determined them all to be real.

[auburn35]

^
Based on their "reviews" of some of the visibly altered cards, I wouldn't be surprised if that was correct.

Hopefully the owner of the legit BGS Jordan can get in touch with Beckett and is able to provide some more info.

[Deadshot]

^
Based on their "reviews" of some of the visibly altered cards, I wouldn't be surprised if that was correct.

Hopefully the owner of the legit BGS Jordan can get in touch with Beckett and is able to provide some more info.

I gave him Jeromy's email yesterday just in case the standard CS one doesn't work.

[auburn35]

This BGS 10 Zion Prizm RC lot is a good visual display of the differences between real and counterfeit Beckett holders.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Investor-Lot-of-23-2019-20-Panini-Prizm-248-Zion-Williamson-RC-Rookie-BGS-10-/363207109067?hash=item5490d4a9cb%3Ag%3AMFAAAOSwlGxfEHLg&nma=true&si=7uCzLHaa3TdUUnGXl%252BM6vZ6AW2g%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I tried to make a short video to highlight the differences between the real BGS holder/label and a counterfeit but my effort isn't as good as taking a look for yourself.

There's another fake, among the lot, if you wanted to practice identifying bad cards.

5R6ZS1Czs1U

[cboog3105]

both 1/99
wondering what's going on with these two

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-18-Panini-Essentials-Silver-99-Jayson-Tatum-129-BGS-9-Rookie/233827452334?hash=item367133c5ae:g:t30AAOSwl5hf3ffX

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Panini-Essentials-SILVER-Jayson-Tatum-RC-Rookie-129-BGS-MINT-1-99-1-1/264872272990?hash=item3dab9e245e:g:N0sAAOSw30JfaBBW

[Deadshot]

both 1/99
wondering what's going on with these two

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-18-Panini-Essentials-Silver-99-Jayson-Tatum-129-BGS-9-Rookie/233827452334?hash=item367133c5ae:g:t30AAOSwl5hf3ffX

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Panini-Essentials-SILVER-Jayson-Tatum-RC-Rookie-129-BGS-MINT-1-99-1-1/264872272990?hash=item3dab9e245e:g:N0sAAOSw30JfaBBW

Is this the same card inside as well? The non-COMC copy is priced real high. Maybe his plan is to quickly scoop the COMC copy up if his somehow sells and have it shipped directly to the buyer of his? That's the best I got. Strange.

[rohara99]

No kidding.

Not to mention the thought that a silly hologram is stopping thief's from knocking off PSA slabs.

And not to mention that you could crack a new PSA slab, steal the flip, use it in a fake slab with a crappy card and then simply resubmit the card to PSA again. Rinse and repeat.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this stuff out. I'd bet its already happening.

Just let us know when you find one example. Shouldn’t be too hard for you.

Wasn't that hard.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1440028

[Ericc5Bears]

Wasn't that hard.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1440028

Not one, but two requests to prove a negative in one reply? Let me know when you find a fake PSA lighthouse flip, then we can have this discussion.

That isn't a lighthouse flip

[cowboyzqna]

Has BGS made an announcement on this issue yet? My confidence is waning in their service.

They won't.


I really hope that collectors try to transition away from beckett in the next few years. I dont believe they will be in business 5 years from now. Not going to go onna tangent as all the reasons why... but i believe they go bankrupt sooner than later.


No third party grader is absolutely perfect... but bgs is a joke of a company today... it will get worse.

[cowboyzqna]

That isn't a lighthouse flip

Seems like people defending bgs just wont listen to reason. It is what it is... for the most part I try not to waste my energy.


It is what it is... if you "take the loss" on those gold labels that are really psa 9 quality today you will save yourself a ton... but people dont want to believe that which is a shame. I know that there are good people that put alott of money into those beckett slabs.

[Ericc5Bears]

Seems like people defending bgs just wont listen to reason. It is what it is... for the most part I try not to waste my energy.


It is what it is... if you "take the loss" on those gold labels that are really psa 9 quality today you will save yourself a ton... but people dont want to believe that which is a shame. I know that there are good people that put alott of money into those beckett slabs.

My collection is probably 75% BGS slabs 25% PSA slabs so trust me, I would love nothing more than for BGS to close the gap, but I'll be the first person to admit that they're only falling more and more behind as time goes on. I strongly agree with the sentiment brought up in this thread that counterfeiters are going to fix the "PAT ." issue sooner rather than later. Once that's done it'll be almost impossible to tell the fake slabs from the real ones. PSA has tons of problems themselves don't get me wrong, but the lighthouse label is revolutionary, and like Khal said, I've never seen a fake lighthouse flip PSA slab.

[KhalDrogo]

Wasn't that hard.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1440028
You bumped this thread for that? You’ve got to be kidding me.

[auburn35]

^
The pictures links are no longer active (maybe they weren't lighthouse labels?) but you created a thread directly referencing fake PSA lighthouse labels.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1291935

[yaoming]

can someone point it out with pictures to show how to spot these fake slab?
it is hard for me to understand how to spot these fakes
thank you in advance

[cowboyzqna]

My collection is probably 75% BGS slabs 25% PSA slabs so trust me, I would love nothing more than for BGS to close the gap, but I'll be the first person to admit that they're only falling more and more behind as time goes on. I strongly agree with the sentiment brought up in this thread that counterfeiters are going to fix the "PAT ." issue sooner rather than later. Once that's done it'll be almost impossible to tell the fake slabs from the real ones. PSA has tons of problems themselves don't get me wrong, but the lighthouse label is revolutionary, and like Khal said, I've never seen a fake lighthouse flip PSA slab.



Yes sir... we all know that PSA isnt perfect. Far from it. But as collectors we can tell which company is actually putting in the effort.


My biggest thing is I hate to see good people throw away good money... on what I believe to be a scam company. It isnt my money so its really none of my business... but I have enjoyed this hobby for a very long time and stuff like this irks me.


Hoping that collectors like you... people who are intelligent and nice human beings get out the way before beckett slabs become eye candy that actually takes away from the value of the card because noone can trust them.


In my opinion a psa 9 is better than a Beckett black label 10.
. Solely because we know one person recieved nothing but black labels from beckett. Buddy was subbing 5 dollar cards and turning them into 5k. It happened alott for him... and will happen again.


Sharp eyes that have been doing this for a while can see that most "9.5 gem mint" cards in beckett slabs just are not gem mint. Many of them I'd struggle to designate as mint.


I used to collect/ grade exclusively with beckett. I still think that their slabs "look" the best... but scam after scam after shady ish has me to where I am now. Zero beckett slabs in the collection and there never will be.

[cowboyzqna]

can someone point it out with pictures to show how to spot these fake slab?
it is hard for me to understand how to spot these fakes
thank you in advance

If it is in a Beckett slab... you should be worried for various reasons.

[KhalDrogo]

^
The pictures links are no longer active (maybe they weren't lighthouse labels?) but you created a thread directly referencing fake PSA lighthouse labels.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1291935
Hmm, I vaguely remember that. Did not seem to be a very popular thread. Can anyone find the pics? Seems that individual was selling fake slabs from the generation prior, but those looked off.

[3124508 on COMC]

Hmm, I vaguely remember that. Did not seem to be a very popular thread. Can anyone find the pics? Seems that individual was selling fake slabs from the generation prior, but those looked off.

One of the photos was of a PSA 10 Bird/Magic RC in a lighthouse slab that was apparently fake. That’s all I recall.

[KhalDrogo]

One of the photos was of a PSA 10 Bird/Magic RC in a lighthouse slab that was apparently fake. That’s all I recall.
I can’t find anything doing Google searches unfortunately. Pisses me off I can’t find anything. Seems the flip was pretty good.

[auburn35]

I can’t find anything doing Google searches unfortunately. Pisses me off I can’t find anything. Seems the flip was pretty good.

Yeah, they were attachments, so maybe the original creator of the thread referenced still has the images (I sent a PM to check).

On the same topic, which you may have already noticed during your searches, the eBay user mentioned in that thread links back to a few BO accounts that Houdini shutdown and several threads that discuss counterfeit cards and counterfeit BGS/PSA cases and flips.

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1081297&page=2

If that person/group is still operating, maybe they are connected with these recent BGS counterfeits?

[12bizzles]

deleted

[auburn35]

Beckett shared a video on Twitter today, that tomorrow Jeromy Murray will be discussing the fake BGS slabs. Should be interesting to see what they have to say.

https://twitter.com/beckettmedia/status/1354202190651346944?s=20

[12bizzles]

Beckett shared a video on Twitter today, that tomorrow Jeromy Murray will be discussing the fake BGS slabs. Should be interesting to see what they have to say.

https://twitter.com/beckettmedia/status/1354202190651346944?s=20

Here's the direct link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbc9d2U-lW8&ab_channel=BeckettMedia

They go live at 1 pm CST today.

[jlzinck]

Man I can get RICH using our sonic welder at work

[Deadshot]

Here's the direct link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbc9d2U-lW8&ab_channel=BeckettMedia

They go live at 1 pm CST today.

Thank you! Tuning in now

[gregggyf]

Comments are turned off,....... oh well. :)

I am pretty sure no one had anything else to add, ....... anyways.

:)

[rohara99]

Listening meow...

[Deadshot]

I just posted a summary of the convo here for anyone that's interested

https://twitter.com/WaxMuseumPC/status/1354550489271173125

[rohara99]

So new cases and/or fliips coming (eventually). Not a surprise. I hope they keep them similar so my OCD wont make me reslab everything lol.

Their response was good and as expected. Would have been nice if they spoke about it sooner but like they said they wanted to get their heads wrapped around it. And not making excuses for them but I wonder if they would have acted (or spoken) quicker if they didn't have a several month backlog of cards waiting to be graded.

Will be tuning in for Cardporns interview next week. I'd also like to reach out to them because Beckett old slabs have no PAT number at all, which they didn't even mention. They also have different flip styles (one is more brushed finish and the other it more indent styled). There are also slightly different gold finished on a couple 9.5 flips.

[auburn35]

Well, that was unremarkable.

All this delay to conduct research and fact check, before coming forward (pushed by someone with hobby influence) to talk and this is what Beckett thought would foster confidence in their brand?

Recycling the helpful counterfeit identifiers that that have been presented on these forums and others, since November and the suggestion that some of PSA's security upgrades from a couple years ago might be utilized in the future. :confused:

Also, it's laughable (sadly) that Beckett preaches to buy carefully and only purchase from trusted dealers (actually good advice), while Beckett is still accepting submissions from known card trimmers and verifying objectively altered cards as good, upon review. :doh:

[KhalDrogo]

Well, that was unremarkable.

All this delay to conduct research and fact check, before coming forward (pushed by someone with hobby influence) to talk and this is what Beckett thought would foster confidence in their brand?

Recycling the helpful counterfeit identifiers that that have been presented on these forums and others, since November and the suggestion that some of PSA's security upgrades from a couple years ago might be utilized in the future. :confused:

Also, it's laughable (sadly) that Beckett preaches to buy carefully and only purchase from trusted dealers (actually good advice), while Beckett is still accepting submissions from known card trimmers and verifying objectively altered cards as good, upon review. :doh:
What are they supposed to say though? Problem is they dragged their feet on commenting for two months, so now they just look stupid. They obviously need a new slab, but I would imagine that's going to be hard to do in the midst of this grading surge that no company can keep up with.

[auburn35]

What are they supposed to say though? Problem is they dragged their feet on commenting for two months, so now they just look stupid. They obviously need a new slab, but I would imagine that's going to be hard to do in the midst of this grading surge that no company can keep up with.

Among other things, Beckett could have presented some partnership within the industry (Beckett, eBay, COMC, "good dealers"....) to setup a trusted method for identifying and preventing bad cards from being sold.

There was discussion of research, protecting the industry and sharing of information but for example, the earliest known counterfeit (dating to 2019) that was posted a couple weeks ago, is still listed for sale.

Is Beckett really interested in protecting the industry and removing bad BGS items or just want their customers to do the work?

[auburn35]

Appears that PWCC is the new outlet for these counterfeit BGS slabs.

There were already a couple similar fake BGS 10 Giannis sold via Probstein123 but this appears to be the first eBay appearance of this counterfeit. Also, I tried to find photos of the legitimate Beckett case but sadly that's getting more difficult, with Worthpoint purging their trading card history.

Fake BGS 10 2013 Prizm Giannis Antetokoumpo. Beckett Label and case are counterfeit.

https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/2597064

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50937569426_cafb56a214_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50936880558_949a6122b9_c.jpg

[3124508 on COMC]

Good find.

[3124508 on COMC]

To the top for fake Giannis.

[Stoiclife]

Appreciate this detective work. With all the money coming into the hobby so comes the scumbaggery.

[superdan49]

PWCC needs to pull this fake-slab Giannis from auction.

[3124508 on COMC]

PWCC needs to pull this fake-slab Giannis from auction.

It’s gone from eBay. They usually only end the eBay listing and not their website listing when they pull items on weekends.

[Ross]

PWCC needs to pull this fake-slab Giannis from auction.


It was pulled


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superdan49]

It’s gone from eBay. They usually only end the eBay listing and not their website listing when they pull items on weekends.

Did not know this, thanks.

Nice work by Auburn finding this one.

[auburn35]

No problem, it's easy to spot the current fakes and nice to see them pulled from the market (hopefully).

So far, no response from Beckett (PWCC responded this afternoon) but ideally PWCC will share the submitters info to their FBI investigators and Beckett, to help track the source of these counterfeits.

[auburn35]

I'm sure Goldin will pull the listing but here's another fake Giannis BGS 10.

Everyone (dealers and collectors) needs to do a better job keep an eye out for these fakes.

https://goldinauctions.com/mobile/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=83907
https://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000083/83907a_med.jpeghttps://goldinauctions.com/ItemImages/000083/83907b_med.jpeg

[JJMayo]

If these fake slabs are going on with BGS it's just a matter of time I agree that there will be problems with some fake PSA slabs---
Something could be going on as we speak...I would never shut down a business because of too much business....Probstein has been selling a lot of high end nice cards over the last few months----just sayin!!!
JJ

[alphaomegas]

every single card should come with some sort of blockchain on the reverse + holo + QR code

it's the only way fraud can be beaten on stuff like trading cards.

I'm not sure why it's not happening already. As well as helping cut down on fraud it could also store information about the card - year, parallel type etc.

With the prices of trading card boxes they should put some type of protection on it as it would make sense of the box prices.

[3124508 on COMC]

Fake BGS 10 2003-04 Topps Chrome LeBron James RC removed from current Goldin auction:

https://i.imgur.com/ZRyq9hS.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/iFXCVNF.jpg

[auburn35]

Nice catch and happy to see the counterfeit was pulled.

If anyone was curious, here's the real 10941655

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51166428798_be92baecdf_c.jpg

[auburn35]

Looking back at the OP, someone (Beckett, Probstein123, card owner...) removed the Luke Red Prizm 241/299 out of the counterfeit BGS case and then ended up selling the raw card via Probstein123.
Is Probstein123 still accepting consignments from the source of the counterfeit cases?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/373523952713

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51264478602_783ef30169_c.jpghttps://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51265400628_c22389242b_c.jpg

Thinking Beckett might have removed and graded the card as part of their investigation, here's the copies graded between the counterfeit being pulled from eBay and the sale of the raw card.

No 9.5's have been given since 2019.

12780007 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 7.0 9.5 9.5 9.5 8.0
12780008 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 7.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 8.0
12780009 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 7.5 9.5 9.5 9.5 8.0
12791250 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 7.0 9.5 9.5 9.5 8.0
12819983 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 7.5 9.0 9.5 9.0 8.0
12852738 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 7.0 8.5 6.0 9.0 7.0
12886015 Basketball 2018-19 Panini Prizm Prizms Red Luka Doncic 8.0 10.0 10.0 9.5 8.5

[auburn35]

Thought this would be the best thread for this post.

Jeromy Murray (Beckett) was the guest on this weeks Sports Card Nation Podcast and opened his interview with some discussion on counterfeit slabs.

https://www.spreaker.com/user/sportscardnationpodcast/ep-134-w-jeromy-murray-of-beckett

Vaguely talks about new labels and case samples that Beckett is reviewing, as well as the flagging of BGS certifications for counterfeits that have been identified. I posted about the certs being pulled in this thread and it is a good thing to check, if you're unsure but Beckett doesn't seem to be keeping up with all the counterfeits. https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1472219

Also of note, it sounds like Beckett is still trying to locate the source of the counterfeits. Not shocking but it is a little odd, as back in February Beckett shut down a discussion thread on what customers should be looking for, claiming they were in litigation with the involved parties. I've been looking but haven't found that court case.
https://www.beckett.com/forums/thread-1619806.html