How will Russell Westbrook be viewed after he retired?

[elontusk1119]

Westbrook's game is declining, sad to see. He is one of my favorite growing up, I have couple of his rookies. I feel like the whole triple double thing lost its luster now that he made it so routine and the game is changing such that it's no longer as much a feat as it used to be. Nonetheless Russ changed the game, how do you think he will be viewed post-retirement? Will he be more appreciated like Allen Iverson after his retirement?

[asujbl]

Averaging a triple double is still very much a feat

I think you need to adjust your expectations

[Chris P]

Westbrook's game is declining, sad to see. He is one of my favorite growing up, I have couple of his rookies. I feel like the whole triple double thing lost its luster now that he made it so routine and the game is changing such that it's no longer as much a feat as it used to be. Nonetheless Russ changed the game, how do you think he will be viewed post-retirement? Will he be more appreciated like Allen Iverson after his retirement?

Definitely not here...the majority opinion here is that he's a losing selfish stat padder of a player..I don't believe this one bit, but that's the majority consensus here

[Willikn]

Definitely not here...the majority opinion here is that he's a losing selfish stat padder of a player..I don't believe this one bit, but that's the majority consensus here

I don't believe that's true. Just a pocket that hate him. Hate is the strongest motivator we humans realize. Just a lot of posts from a small pocket IMO.

[Chris P]

I don't believe that's true. Just a pocket that hate him. Hate is the strongest motivator we humans realize. Just a lot of posts from a small pocket IMO.

True, it's a small pocket, I'm guessing most of BO is indifferent, but the small pocket are loud enough that it makes it think this place is anti-Westbrook big time. Most Westbrook posts are negative around here. There's a few Westbrook fans here, but there just comes a point where it's tiresome to even try to defend our position when nobody really wants to hear it.

[MJGOAT23]

Probably like a Chris Paul or a slightly lesser D Wade. Neither of these guys had good hobby prices or following and even into the last years for Wade post chips w/ LBJ, but now that their careers are over or near over in the case of CP3 they are viewed as the best of an era. DWade PSA 10 Chrome RC's were still under $100 not that long ago.

[JustinVerlander07]

Definitely not here...the majority opinion here is that he's a losing selfish stat padder of a player..I don't believe this one bit, but that's the majority consensus here

Subposting me again! Unbelievable.

[Chris P]

Subposting me again! Unbelievable.

What are you talking about? Subposting you? You think you are the only one of this forum who thinks Westbrook is a losing stat padder selfish player?! It's all over his threads! There's a guy in the Bradley Beal thread who said this exact thing yesterday.

[Chris P]

Subposting me again! Unbelievable.

I'm not targeting you dude if that's what you think..your opinion isn't unique, it's shared by those who don't like him in general

[MattRoc]

Westbrook's game is declining, sad to see. He is one of my favorite growing up, I have couple of his rookies. I feel like the whole triple double thing lost its luster now that he made it so routine and the game is changing such that it's no longer as much a feat as it used to be. Nonetheless Russ changed the game, how do you think he will be viewed post-retirement? Will he be more appreciated like Allen Iverson after his retirement?

I think he's going to be one of the guys that history looks back at quite fondly, and probably in a better light than people see him today. He's going to be remembered as one of the best players of his generation, a top 30-40 all-time NBA player when he retires, and someone who did something (three times!) that people thought was impossible. His MVP season will be remembered as one of the great individual seasons in recent memory that essentially broke multiple advanced stats (which had to be recalibrated or formulated because his numbers were so insane).

There is going to be a 30 for 30 or Last Dance type documentary done one day on the Thunder, which will reintroduce Russ to the next generation. In terms of hobby value, I think he'll get the post-retirement and Hall of Fame bump, as well as a bump from the documentary. Compared to the prices people are paying for common cards of young guys, I actually think he's one oft he better long-term investments out there.

[Zacy87]

I'm one of the people who are not a fan of Westbrook. I certainly don't hate the guy. I love his intensity and passion for the game but I truly feel like a lot of his stats are hollow.

Again, just my opinion and several others seem to share that same sentiment.

[Lankybox]

Not really hate the guy but the common things I hear synonymous to his name is Stat padder and triple double chaser (to the point that he gets angry at teammates he passed the ball on to to get an assist)

[mc1]

I'm one of the people who are not a fan of Westbrook. I certainly don't hate the guy. I love his intensity and passion for the game but I truly feel like a lot of his stats are hollow.

Again, just my opinion and several others seem to share that same sentiment.

The fanboys are very defensive and dramatic.

No one hates him.

[FreshOutThePack]

So funny that people on here blame a "small pocket" for hate on here.

All the while Westbrook gets zero hobby love universally.

😂😂😂😂

[GSWRJE84]

Another one of those players that made an impact during his playing career era without a championship...

[Kobefan]

His legacy will depend on whether he'll end up with a ring, as a first or a second best player in a team, before retiring.

[DajuanWagner]

The fanboys are very defensive and dramatic.

No one hates him.



Disagree.......a lot of people hate him................

[GoNYGoNYGo]

The biggest problem I have with Westbrooks legacy is that it always felt that no matter how well he played or how amazing his stats were it never translated to making his team better and winning for some reason.

And I loved Westbrook and think hes an awesome player to watch but there was just something off about the fact that even as he racked up assists it never felt like he was making those around him better or making his team better.

[Chris P]

So funny that people on here blame a "small pocket" for hate on here.

All the while Westbrook gets zero hobby love universally.

😂😂😂😂

Hobby love and basketball love are different obviously. Chris Paul doesn't have hobby love either not really, big men either

[Chris P]

The fanboys are very defensive and dramatic.

No one hates him.

I only get defensive because a lot of people here can't give him an ounce of credit for anything and I mean ANYTHING. When calling him a losing player, it ignores his contributions to the Thunder's finals and Western conference appearances. All time greats like Ewing Barkley, Stockton Malone etc get a pass because they ran into Jordan during their primes. I mean during the KD-Russ years it was a pretty damn Good Spurs AND Warriors team in the same conference then the Heat Superteam in the East...yet somehow he gets no such pass for the mere fact that people just don't like him. He made the finals because "he played with a lot of great players around him"..you mean like Scottie Pippen? Who never did anything outside of Chicago? And they made the finals because he was ONE of those great players on those teams. I don't care if you think he's a stat padder, selfish..overrated etc..that's an opinion that some can have and that's fine, I don't agree with it at all, but the "losing player" thing will always irk me and I'll always defend that.

[isles4life]

similar to AI imo

[lietuvalabas]

Hobby love and basketball love are different obviously. Chris Paul doesn't have hobby love either not really, big men either

Chris Paul is a good player..would never dispute this. But the guy won rookie of the Year and an all star game mvp. Shiiiid mike Miller won rookie of the Year. Point is he's never even been to the finals. If anything his cards are over valued if you compare to him to a John Stockton type who was also an all star mvp...which is a meaningless award. But atleast stockton is an all time leader in not one but 2 categories, and what makes it even greater is that one is an offensive stat and one defensive, so like the perfect 2 way player....AND 2 finals appearances where unfortunatley they ran into Jordan.
People in the other thread comparing cp3 to dwade is laughable. But Chris Paul is still a very good player, just think he gets too much credit on here.

[Chris P]

Chris Paul is a good player..would never dispute this. But the guy won rookie of the Year and an all star game mvp. Shiiiid mike Miller won rookie of the Year. Point is he's never even been to the finals. If anything his cards are over valued if you compare to him to a John Stockton type who was also an all star mvp...which is a meaningless award. But atleast stockton is an all time leader in not one but 2 categories, and what makes it even greater is that one is an offensive stat and one defensive, so like the perfect 2 way player....AND 2 finals appearances where unfortunatley they ran into Jordan.
People in the other thread comparing cp3 to dwade is laughable. But Chris Paul is still a very good player, just think he gets too much credit on here.

I agree with this. My point wasnt really about paul's skills..is that the previous commenetor made a snark remark about how russ gets no hobby love universally as if its due to nobody liking him. My counter was a lot of people love chris paul as a player yet his card prices are low...i dont see chris paul getting nearly the amount of vitrol Russ does despite his own shortcomings playoff wise

[TraderJake]

As a Wizards fan he is a very frustrating player to have on the team I support. He does have elite heart and hustle and can create offense in ways that most cant but he is a very bad decision maker. If he made it his mission to take 3 secs less with the ball on every possession it would greatly improve his ability to contribute to winning basketball.

[lietuvalabas]

I agree with this. My point wasnt really about paul's skills..is that the previous commenetor made a snark remark about how russ gets no hobby love universally as if its due to nobody liking him. My counter was a lot of people love chris paul as a player yet his card prices are low...i dont see chris paul getting nearly the amount of vitrol Russ does despite his own shortcomings playoff wise

Ah gotcha, yeah Chris Paul is definitley more liked than Westbrook. People that think demeanor doesn't matter are delusional. Hence why harden stuff is never that high, he just comes off as a d!k despite being maybe one of the best scorers to ever play the game. Then you have curry who is equally as good a scorer and even I think rings aside would still crush harden in the price category because of his likability, he has a friendly demeanor, shuts his mouth about politics, has the good family man aspect, people appreciate that kind of stuff, I know I do.

[Chris P]

Ah gotcha, yeah Chris Paul is definitley more liked than Westbrook. People that think demeanor doesn't matter are delusional. Hence why harden stuff is never that high, he just comes off as a d!k despite being maybe one of the best scorers to ever play the game. Then you have curry who is equally as good a scorer and even I think rings aside would still crush harden in the price category because of his likability, he has a friendly demeanor, shuts his mouth about politics, has the good family man aspect, people appreciate that kind of stuff, I know I do.

I've always understood why Russ comes across as polarizing, and I get why people feel how they feel about him. You can dislike a guy and still acknowledge that he is indeed in fact a good player. There's players across sports who I don't particularly care for, but I'm not going to demean their accomplishments just because of that. And here that's all it comes across as...Russ gets 0 credit for anything but blame for anything when it should be a mix of both. I don't know what defines a "losing player". Is it every player who has never won a championship as either the leader or #2? Is it every player who's never made a championship as the #1? I just don't get what the definition is. If that's the criteria than yes..Russ is I guess a "loser" but the list would include so many other greats. That's not my definition of a loser player though.

[lietuvalabas]

I've always understood why Russ comes across as polarizing, and I get why people feel how they feel about him. You can dislike a guy and still acknowledge that he is indeed in fact a good player. There's players across sports who I don't particularly care for, but I'm not going to demean their accomplishments just because of that. And here that's all it comes across as...Russ gets 0 credit for anything but blame for anything when it should be a mix of both. I don't know what defines a "losing player". Is it every player who has never won a championship as either the leader or #2? Is it every player who's never made a championship as the #1? I just don't get what the definition is. If that's the criteria than yes..Russ is I guess a "loser" but the list would include so many other greats. That's not my definition of a loser player though.

Sure, I think the dislike is because of what many deem as stat padding, I consider it like that too, and the hero ball shot selection type of play. That said aside from his abysmal shot selection and insufferable demeanor, I wouldn't say I wouldn't want him on my team as a coach, his tenacity and drive to win is maybe just after kobe and Jordan, he takes it personal which can be good or bad. Good in the sense that you have a guy that is there for more than a paycheck, but can also be a detriment in the way he handles it. It's a tough call. Stat padding or not, averaging a triple double is no easy feat. Would I be more impressed of it were in the 90s or mid 00s? Of course. My reasoning is, it's way too easy to score nowadays and stats are overly inflated. But still quite an accomplishment on his behalf. I guess the other knock is what are we missing? He was teamed up with KD, harden, paul george and now Beal who isn't at the echelon of those guys but definitley an upper tier guy and has so little to show for it but some good stats, where's the disconnect? Genuinley asking.

[drobfan8]

So funny that people on here blame a "small pocket" for hate on here.

All the while Westbrook gets zero hobby love universally.

��������

Oh yeah?.

How much does his Exquisite RPA sell for?

His Prizm Golds and Galactics?

They're where they should be, on that 2nd tier of All Star level players. To say he has no Hobby love is a pretty awful take.

[Chris P]

Sure, I think the dislike is because of what many deem as stat padding, I consider it like that too, and the hero ball shot selection type of play. That said aside from his abysmal shot selection and insufferable demeanor, I wouldn't say I wouldn't want him on my team as a coach, his tenacity and drive to win is maybe just after kobe and Jordan, he takes it personal which can be good or bad. Good in the sense that you have a guy that is there for more than a paycheck, but can also be a detriment in the way he handles it. It's a tough call. Stat padding or not, averaging a triple double is no easy feat. Would I be more impressed of it were in the 90s or mid 00s? Of course. My reasoning is, it's way too easy to score nowadays and stats are overly inflated. But still quite an accomplishment on his behalf. I guess the other knock is what are we missing? He was teamed up with KD, harden, paul george and now Beal who isn't at the echelon of those guys but definitley an upper tier guy and has so little to show for it but some good stats, where's the disconnect? Genuinley asking.

I'll say this..in my opinion the original Harden KD Russ trio didn't really get a chance to see what they were fully capable of. Fresh off a finals appeareance they got cut off the knees because OKC panic traded Harden for garbage (Kevin Martin and two picks that essentially became crap for them). Despite this they managed to make two conference finals afterwards and that's sandwiched in between two playoff runs cut off because of injury. Russ was taken out by Beverely in the playoffs one year and then KD got hurt. They lost two prime years on that combo. Presti, for the credit he gets for drafting KD, Russ, Harden, Serge and the credit he's been getting for the rebuild, absolutely whiffed in between, starting with that Harden trade. Outside of Steven Adams and I guess you can say Reggie Jackson (but he was disgruntled during his time there because he thought he could be a starter) but the number of whiffs in the drafts was pretty big. Cole Aldrich, Perry Jones, Jeremy Lamb, Cameron Payne, Mitch McGary, Josh Huestis, just a few of the guys drafted during that time. Anyways, why couldn't he and KD win? There were better teams. That Spurs dynasty was no joke and it was also the beginning of the Warriors dynasty as well. That's two powerhouses you have to get through before even entertaining the thought of going against Lebron. Lebron, who pretty much is considered the best player of this modern era had trouble with the Warriors and Spurs..going 1-1 (some argue should be 0-2 if not for Ray Allen) and 1-3. I would've loved to see OKC run it back after the collapse (KD was on board with the Dipo trade at the time and there was a rumor of Al Horford joining also had KD resigned) but he didn't. As far as not working out with Paul George..I mean it's kind of weird Russ gets all the blame on that considering many people believe George is one of the worst performers when it comes to the playoffs. He couldn't get the job up 3-1 with KAWHI..who's miles better than Russ..could it be George was the problem? I remember the playoff series..George barely looked like he wanted to be there. I remember Russ trying everything in his power to keep OKC alive in that series against Utah where Paul George just completely disappeared. Despite all that George wanted out because his real end game had always been going to LA and since the Thunder got a haul for him, they decided to trade Russ too and rebuild (getting a nice haul in return for him as well) Harden? Another malcontent around here that people don't like because of his nonchalant attitude but again people would rather blame Russ for it not working in Houston, despite it seeming that Harden's heart isn't really 100% on winning. It was Russ who wanted out there, not the other way around. The Wizards thing? I mean I have zero expectations for them. Beal's a great scorer, but that's a young team with little to no experience. It's not exactly a deep team. Anyways that's my long diatribe.

[drobfan8]

Once he retires he'll get more love.

People used to HATE Chris Paul on here and call him a choker. Now all of a sudden, he's still getting first round exits and he's LOVED!

Melo was absolutely despised, now he is appreciated.

Westbrook has had a pretty full career other than winning a title. He used to give the Spurs fits, same with Kobe's Lakers.

His shot has left him which is a shame. But he'll go down as one of the OKCs greats.

[Chris P]

Once he retires he'll get more love.

People used to HATE Chris Paul on here and call him a choker. Now all of a sudden, he's still getting first round exits and he's LOVED!

Melo was absolutely despised, now he is appreciated.

Westbrook has had a pretty full career other than winning a title. He used to give the Spurs fits, same with Kobe's Lakers.

His shot has left him which is a shame. But he'll go down as one of the OKCs greats.

Agree with this

[MattRoc]

He was teamed up with KD, harden, paul george and now Beal who isn't at the echelon of those guys but definitley an upper tier guy and has so little to show for it but some good stats, where's the disconnect? Genuinley asking.

One finals appearance and three other conference finals appearances, all the while losing three separate playoff runs in his prime due to injury (one to himself, one to KD, and one to Ibaka) is "so little to show for it"? His MVP season, where he dragged (other than him) a bottom 5 roster in the NBA to a playoff spot in the Western Conference (and then decidedly won the minutes he was on the floor in that series), continually gets downplayed and dismissed. I think that's where people get defensive. The man has had an amazing career and accomplished insane things but people either denigrate his accomplishments or outright dismiss them.

Is Russ LeBron, Curry, or KD? No, he's not on their level for his career and nobody is arguing that. But the fact that a large segment of the basketball-watching population views him as a stat-padder and loser and not a winner, despite the actual evidence in front of their faces is what riles up those that support and appreciate him.

As to his demeanor, I find the argument funny because he is exactly what everyone says they wish players were. He is no holds-barred, no effs given, and only cares about winning. His teammates love him and go to bat for him. On the court, he's surly, confident, and intense. Off of the court (when he's not being questioned by Barry Tramel, one of the worst sportswriters in the country), he's personable, intelligent, charitable, and a genuinely good guy that has never been involved in any scandal or trouble.

I still maintain my opinion that after he retires, he'll become much more appreciated for what he accomplished.

[Chris P]

One finals appearance and three other conference finals appearances, all the while losing three separate playoff runs in his prime due to injury (one to himself, one to KD, and one to Ibaka) is "so little to show for it"? His MVP season, where he dragged (other than him) a bottom 5 roster in the NBA to a playoff spot in the Western Conference (and then decidedly won the minutes he was on the floor in that series), continually gets downplayed and dismissed. I think that's where people get defensive. The man has had an amazing career and accomplished insane things but people either denigrate his accomplishments or outright dismiss them.

Is Russ LeBron, Curry, or KD? No, he's not on their level for his career and nobody is arguing that. But the fact that a large segment of the basketball-watching population views him as a stat-padder and loser and not a winner, despite the actual evidence in front of their faces is what riles up those that support and appreciate him.

As to his demeanor, I find the argument funny because he is exactly what everyone says they wish players were. He is no holds-barred, no effs given, and only cares about winning. His teammates love him and go to bat for him. On the court, he's surly, confident, and intense. Off of the court (when he's not being questioned by Barry Tramel, one of the worst sportswriters in the country), he's personable, intelligent, charitable, and a genuinely good guy that has never been involved in any scandal or trouble.

I still maintain my opinion that after he retires, he'll become much more appreciated for what he accomplished.

Exactly where I'm coming from..sucks to be in the minority but well said again

[Chris P]

Also everyone always says KD didn't wanna play with Russ, Kevin Durant left OKC because he was feeling the pressure finally, the "Lebron Pressure", of being considered one the top 2 players in the league but with nothing to show for it. Thanks to how the salary cap worked that year, the Warriors were in a unique situation where they had to cap space to get him. I truly believe if the Warriors weren't an option..he would've stayed in OKC, but they were.

[lietuvalabas]

Also everyone always says KD didn't wanna play with Russ, Kevin Durant left OKC because he was feeling the pressure finally, the "Lebron Pressure", of being considered one the top 2 players in the league but with nothing to show for it. Thanks to how the salary cap worked that year, the Warriors were in a unique situation where they had to cap space to get him. I truly believe if the Warriors weren't an option..he would've stayed in OKC, but they were.

Oh don't get me started on KD, another great player, maybe a top 3 scorer ever, but yeah he totally #@#@#@#@#@#@ed out on that team, "the lebron pressure" he should have seen how lebron did the sissy thing in the summer of 2010 and been better and tried again the next year to be better than him. While westbrook does get crapped on sometimes justly, sometimes not, this squarely fell on KD and his precious glass little ego.

[regularp]

I think opinion will remain pretty divided. People who look strictly at numbers will say he must have been incredible while those of us who actually watched him play will say he was a terrific player with glaring flaws that hindered his teams. Derrick Rose in his brief prime was a better player than Westbrook.

My PG rankings from this era would be:

Curry (in his own tier)

Chris Paul (in his own tier below Curry)

Lillard, Westbrook, Wall, etc.

[tjforce]

Here's the thing about Westbrook I think most of us can agree on....

He will be remembered.

That's important. Especially in the card world.

A lot of guys have great basketball career but aren't part of the general discussion after they finish playing. Off the top of my head: Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Elgin Baylor... All top 20 guys that just don't get talked about much.

On the other hand, you have guys like Barkley, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Vince Carter, that didn't have as good of careers, but are more prominent in basketball lore (at least relative to their skills).

I think Westbrook will be in the later part of that group.

[shootit]

cancer to every team he touches and cant win

[FreshOutThePack]

Oh yeah?.

How much does his Exquisite RPA sell for?

His Prizm Golds and Galactics?

They're where they should be, on that 2nd tier of All Star level players. To say he has no Hobby love is a pretty awful take.

Not at all my dude. Having fans and being second tier is a far cry from having universal hobby love.

Westbrook's rc stuff is basically comparable to Keldon Johnson stuff right now...

People saying he will be loved more after he is retired lol.

How many guys has that ever happened for?

[derder]

I’ve hated his personality but his impact on the game will remain...