Kobe Finest RC Refractors Overrated or Underrated

[CardmanDan]

PSA 9’s are well over 10k now. Where do you think these can go on Kobe Bryant Day AKA his Hall of Fame Induction? PSA 9 Topps Chrome Refractors are 42-50k, I heard his Finest Refractors are rarer & the packs were more expensive upon its release in 1996. Let’s discuss

[regularp]

Underrated. Not a lot of them out there and not easy grades either. The Bronze ones in particular are brutal because of centering.

[Totalpackage]

Of course they are underrated. Both the gold and bronze refractors are much more hard to find especially in top grades, but the Topps Chrome refractors are more iconic, so it depends on what goal you are looking for; both of them are must have for Kobe collectors if the financial isn't an issue.

[2010GBPackers]

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.

[Hellcat]

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.
Again a pipe dream and you obviously don’t have the chrome refractor and the less valuable Finest refractors. I won’t sell my pristine PSA 9 chrome refractor for under 100k. There’s a handful of us left mine has stayed in a safety deposit box since I bought it in 1997.

[sebreg]

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.

I'm on team Finest Gold ;)

Regarding valuations I have no clue, but if I had a boatload of money I'd park it into the Gold refractor not the TC refractor. Better pop and better aesthetics (imo). Can be problematic with both but a slight edge regarding potential greening issues as well.

[Totalpackage]

The high graded Topps Chrome Refractors are indeed the most valued Kobe rookie cards, but the Finest Gold and Bronze Refractors are also quite underrated comparing to what they used to sell a few years ago. Like I said in my previous message, the Topps Chrome Refractors are the most iconic ones but the Finest Refractors are more rarer. I am actually selling my house for both cards right now... lol...

[2010GBPackers]

Again a pipe dream and you obviously don’t have the chrome refractor and the less valuable Finest refractors. I won’t sell my pristine PSA 9 chrome refractor for under 100k. There’s a handful of us left mine has stayed in a safety deposit box since I bought it in 1997.

You're one of kind, Hellcat. I'll quote you so people can see your post since most have you blocked. Anyway, PSA 9's aren't "Pristine", you'd need to cross that to a BGS 10 for that. Also, there's not a handful of you left - there are 286 PSA 9's, so 286 of you left (270ish if you account for failed crossover attempts).

The gap has closed substantially in the past 2 years. The TC refractor was outselling the Finest Gold by appro. 5x. Now it's 2x or less.

[Totalpackage]

You're one of kind, Hellcat. I'll quote you so people can see your post since most have you blocked. Anyway, PSA 9's aren't "Pristine", you'd need to cross that to a BGS 10 for that. Also, there's not a handful of you left - there are 286 PSA 9's, so 286 of you left (270ish if you account for failed crossover attempts).

The gap has closed substantially in the past 2 years. The TC refractor was outselling the Finest Gold by appro. 5x. Now it's 2x or less.

Yes, the information for both cards' pricing are correct. I remember about few years ago, the Topps Chrome Refractors BGS 9.5 used to sell around 5k while the Finest Gold Refractors BGS 9.5 were a little bit over 1k. I think the pricing gap will eventually become even since there are many positive factors for the Finest Refractors.

[Hellcat]

You're one of kind, Hellcat. I'll quote you so people can see your post since most have you blocked. Anyway, PSA 9's aren't "Pristine", you'd need to cross that to a BGS 10 for that. Also, there's not a handful of you left - there are 286 PSA 9's, so 286 of you left (270ish if you account for failed crossover attempts).

The gap has closed substantially in the past 2 years. The TC refractor was outselling the Finest Gold by appro. 5x. Now it's 2x or less.
Pristine color as in no greening! You’ve seen the pics how many are like that in existence very few! So my copy blows all your other stats away that you can throw at me. It will cross to a.BGS 9.5 which I will do at our next national.

[Beavers98]

I own a few of the reg/base cards and none of the RC refractors so no bias here.

I can see the Gold Refractor gaining some ground, but it's not really comparing like items. I mean if Chrome had a Gold refractor that year I'm sure it would be through the roof/ highest card. It doesn't so Finest Gold Refractor is the next best thing or only real option for Gold Refractors.

So again I can see the Finest Gold Refractor closing the percentage gap on T.Chrome Refractors, but compare base cards and base refractors (T.Chrome vs Bronze RC) and I'm sure they percentage multiplier won't move a ton, but both will increase together. If that makes sense.

[mc1]

Gold Refractor isnt a rookie card.

Keep pumping guys.

[Adam85]

I'll just sit quietly in the corner with my Bowman's Best refractor.

[biggieruth]

I like Topps 50th anniversary rookie looks just like the Chrome with out the greening.

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[CardWizard]

Love it

[mglevy125]

Gold Refractor isnt a rookie card.

Keep pumping guys.

What are you talking about? The finest Gold refractor is 1996-97. That makes it a rookie card....

[LincecumPC]

I'll just sit quietly in the corner with my Bowman's Best refractor.

Lol don’t sell yourself short. That’s a nice card as well.

[Kobefan]

What are you talking about? The finest Gold refractor is 1996-97. That makes it a rookie card....

It’s in a finest series 2 set, while finest series 1 already have Kobe rc card. It was never considered a true rookie card, but simply a card in a rookie year.

[Chris P]

Gold Refractor isnt a rookie card.

Keep pumping guys.

I mean the chrome refractor isnt either right?

[Chris P]

What are you talking about? The finest Gold refractor is 1996-97. That makes it a rookie card....

You're going to have different people call it different things..its not a "true" rc just like the chrome refractor isn't a true rc bc they both have base versions...in the case of the finest it has a bronze which is considered the true rc..everything else in finest is rookie year cards or rookie card parallels

[Totalpackage]

I would take it as a rookie card since it was released in 1996.

[mc1]

I would take it as a rookie card since it was released in 1996.

Series 1 has a copyright of 1996
Series 2 has a copyright of 1997

One was released before the other

I mean the chrome refractor isnt either right?

Its rookie year card

Base is always the true rc.

[2010GBPackers]

Gold Refractor isnt a rookie card.

Keep pumping guys.

What are you talking about? The finest Gold refractor is 1996-97. That makes it a rookie card....

This is just what he does. mc1 thinks people really care about the card he identifies as the "true rookie". Back to the topic.

Great, so we've concluded the Finest Gold is gaining on the TC refractor. It's a matter of preference really. I love both cards, but I'm in love with one of them.

[Chris P]

This is just what he does. mc1 thinks people really care about the card he identifies as the "true rookie". Back to the topic.

Great, so we've concluded the Finest Gold is gaining on the TC refractor. It's a matter of preference really. I love both cards, but I'm in love with one of them.

When I got back in the hobby in 2016, the one card I targeted was originally just the Gold Base Finest Rookie..then I saw a PSA 9 refractor no peel and decided to splurge on that one. I just love everything about it. It's not only my favorite Kobe in my collection but my favorite card in my entire collection

[danimal875]

Just ignore RC card trolls, let them have their moment, its obviously the only thing going on in their lives.

[jbball50]

It’s in a finest series 2 set, while finest series 1 already have Kobe rc card. It was never considered a true rookie card, but simply a card in a rookie year.

Lol what

[mglevy125]

Series 1 has a copyright of 1996
Series 2 has a copyright of 1997

One was released before the other



Its rookie year card

Base is always the true rc.

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

[Brent72]

I'll just sit quietly in the corner with my Bowman's Best refractor.

I've got the Atomic Ref. Awesome card. :)!

[sebreg]

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

Yeah, the vast majority of the market considers it rc and places rc premiums on those cards. A lot of this stuff is a question of perception. Narrow definitions can be fine, everyone has their own parameters, but the reality of the marketplace is premiuming this stuff as it sees fit and I don't see that changing (people aren't going to start getting nit picky on these type of subtleties/details, plus I remember the Kobe Gold being considered RC back in the day when it came out).

[mc1]

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

Well, refractors and parallels are much more rare than the base.

You dont think the matter of supply affects prices?

plus I remember the Kobe Gold being considered RC back in the day when it came out).

Nope

[Kobefan]

This is wild frame of thought. It’s obvious that the cards in question being “true” rcs are irrelevant. If the majority of people cared or thought that way, refractors and atomic refractors from the 90s wouldn’t be selling for exponentially higher than their respective base versions.

Obviously being a true rookie card isn’t the only factor that influences a card’s price, rarity and public perceptions are factors as well. Most collectors value rc parallel much more than just a rookie card, and usually more than whatever people call that finest gold refractor card.

[Kobefan]

Lol what

Huh? Are you asking me to rephrase my statement or are you disagreeing with it?

[mglevy125]

Obviously being a true rookie card isn’t the only factor that influences a card’s price, rarity and public perceptions are factors as well. Most collectors value rc parallel much more than just a rookie card, and usually more than whatever people call that finest gold refractor card.

That’s proving the point though, you’re referring to the parallels as rcs. Someone posted earlier that those aren’t RCs, they’re rookie year, which seems ridiculous.

[mc1]

That’s proving the point though, you’re referring to the parallels as rcs. Someone posted earlier that those aren’t RCs, they’re rookie year, which seems ridiculous.

Thats your opinion.

[swaggyballcards]

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.

New to learning about greening

1. Does this only happen to chromes / refractors?

2. Would a base Topps Kobe be okay?

3. I'm also considering the base Bowman's Best and Finest cards (cool poses / design). But greening makes me concerned. What do you all think?

[Kobefan]

PSA 9’s are well over 10k now. Where do you think these can go on Kobe Bryant Day AKA his Hall of Fame Induction? PSA 9 Topps Chrome Refractors are 42-50k, I heard his Finest Refractors are rarer & the packs were more expensive upon its release in 1996. Let’s discuss

Has there ever been a consensus on the Finest Gold refractor being rarer than the Topps Chrome refractor? I'm curious about this cause although the gold refractor is inserted at 1 in 288 packs, there are only 18 different gold refractors, so the odds of one is 1 in 5,184 packs. The Topps chrome refractor odds is 1 in 12 packs, but the set has 220 cards, so the odds of getting one is 1 in 2,640. Simply looking at the numbers, it seems that there should be roughly 2x as much Topps Chrome refractor as the Finest Gold refractor, but since the Topps Chrome set was shorted printed and retail exclusive, I'm pretty sure that there are less packs of them made than Finest series 2.

[Kobefan]

There are a lot of collectors (and investors, frankly) who are moving away from the Topps Chrome refractors and into the Finest Bronze and Gold Kobe refractors due to the greening on the TC. The Finest cards can green as well, but it is less prevalent and to much less of a degree. Plus, the Finest Gold is one of the most visually appealing cards of all-time and is ultra rare, especially in Mint and Gem Mint condition. I envision the Finest Gold outselling the Topps Chrome refractor in 5-10 years.

Greening in Finest may be less prevalent, but it would be great if it didn't happen to my card:https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49593705468_96245ac904_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iyqGPo)[url=https://flic.kr/p/2iyqGPo]

Also, in regards to the Gold refractor card being the most visually appealing card, that's kinda subjective cause although I love the gold and refractor design, the bottom up picture of Kobe is one of my least favorite picture of his.

[sebreg]

New to learning about greening

1. Does this only happen to chromes / refractors?

2. Would a base Topps Kobe be okay?

3. I'm also considering the base Bowman's Best and Finest cards (cool poses / design). But greening makes me concerned. What do you all think?

The Topps Nba 50th is a nice option with chrome-like foil. Very condition sensitive. Greening mostly an issue for finest and chrome, not base or nba 50. The bowman are nice too, I love the atomic refractors

[2010GBPackers]

New to learning about greening

1. Does this only happen to chromes / refractors?

2. Would a base Topps Kobe be okay?

3. I'm also considering the base Bowman's Best and Finest cards (cool poses / design). But greening makes me concerned. What do you all think?

Yes, base Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's Best along with their refractor parallels can green. A base paper Topps RC will not green. Now, if you keep it in a south facing window for 10 years, who knows, but no, they don't green.

Honestly, there is no scientific rule on the greening issue. However, 1993 Finest base and refractors have 98% greened. There are virtually 0 cards from that set that don't have some greening and most are Hulk-like. Topps did much better on the 1994 Finest set and you can easily pick up a non-green base and/or refractor. Same thing for 1995. But again in 1996, you see Finest base and refractors with greening issue.

Topps Chrome's inaugural release in 1996 is almost as bad as 1993's Finest and a good amount of the cards (base and refractors) have greened. The Kobe is notoriously leading that set in Hulking, but I'd venture to say it is due to card stores and other collectors having them on display more than the other cards in the set, therefore exposing them to more UV light. 1997 was also a bad year for TC as a good amount of those cards have greening present as well. For some unknown reason, Topps seems to have figured it out by 1998. There would be virtually no greening on any card after 1997 from Topps.

I'm also not exactly sure if greening gets worse if you keep the card from being exposed to UV light. I've had a few cards with slight greening that did not progress further than when I first bought them. I keep all of my cards in a humidity controlled environment with no UV light, though.

Has there ever been a consensus on the Finest Gold refractor being rarer than the Topps Chrome refractor? I'm curious about this cause although the gold refractor is inserted at 1 in 288 packs, there are only 18 different gold refractors, so the odds of one is 1 in 5,184 packs. The Topps chrome refractor odds is 1 in 12 packs, but the set has 220 cards, so the odds of getting one is 1 in 2,640. Simply looking at the numbers, it seems that there should be roughly 2x as much Topps Chrome refractor as the Finest Gold refractor, but since the Topps Chrome set was shorted printed and retail exclusive, I'm pretty sure that there are less packs of them made than Finest series 2.

That sounds correct. Going strictly off of PSA/BGS pop reports, the Finest Gold refractor is approx. 2x rarer (I combined w/ peel and w/o peel in the Finest numbers).

Topps Chrome #138 refractor:

PSA total graded - (404)
BGS total graded - (289)

Topps Finest Gold #269 refractor:

PSA total graded - (204)
BGS total graded - (182)

[shootit]

overrated to me, they jus dont look good

[Dame]

The Topps Nba 50th is a nice option with chrome-like foil. Very condition sensitive. Greening mostly an issue for finest and chrome, not base or nba 50. The bowman are nice too, I love the atomic refractors

I love the NBA 50 foil. Give me that over a greening base TC.

[Hellcat]

Way more re-subbing on the chrome refractors do to the big value. The numbers are way closer if not lower than the Finest refractors.

[Hellcat]

I love the NBA 50 foil. Give me that over a greening base TC.
I do like the look not going to lie. I have one at PSA as we speak should 9 for sure crossing fingers for gem saw no flaw on the card.

[swaggyballcards]

Yes, base Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's Best along with their refractor parallels can green. A base paper Topps RC will not green. Now, if you keep it in a south facing window for 10 years, who knows, but no, they don't green.

Honestly, there is no scientific rule on the greening issue. However, 1993 Finest base and refractors have 98% greened. There are virtually 0 cards from that set that don't have some greening and most are Hulk-like. Topps did much better on the 1994 Finest set and you can easily pick up a non-green base and/or refractor. Same thing for 1995. But again in 1996, you see Finest base and refractors with greening issue.

Topps Chrome's inaugural release in 1996 is almost as bad as 1993's Finest and a good amount of the cards (base and refractors) have greened. The Kobe is notoriously leading that set in Hulking, but I'd venture to say it is due to card stores and other collectors having them on display more than the other cards in the set, therefore exposing them to more UV light. 1997 was also a bad year for TC as a good amount of those cards have greening present as well. For some unknown reason, Topps seems to have figured it out by 1998. There would be virtually no greening on any card after 1997 from Topps.

I'm also not exactly sure if greening gets worse if you keep the card from being exposed to UV light. I've had a few cards with slight greening that did not progress further than when I first bought them. I keep all of my cards in a humidity controlled environment with no UV light, though.



That sounds correct. Going strictly off of PSA/BGS pop reports, the Finest Gold refractor is approx. 2x rarer (I combined w/ peel and w/o peel in the Finest numbers).

Topps Chrome #138 refractor:

PSA total graded - (404)
BGS total graded - (289)

Topps Finest Gold #269 refractor:

PSA total graded - (204)
BGS total graded - (182)



1. Thanks everyone for the great info & greening history! I'll factor these points into my purchasing decision

2. Out of Kobe's rookie set, are Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's the ones to watch out for regarding greening? Does anything happy to the Flair Showcase foil? (I'm new to materials and only collecting for PC)

Thanks in advance!

[Kobefan]

1. Thanks everyone for the great info & greening history! I'll factor these points into my purchasing decision

2. Out of Kobe's rookie set, are Chromes, Finest, and Bowman's the ones to watch out for regarding greening? Does anything happy to the Flair Showcase foil? (I'm new to materials and only collecting for PC)

Thanks in advance!

No, only those 3 sets can turn green.

[mglevy125]

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

[Dame]

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

They flip a coin in BGS what's centered or not when it comes to Bowman's.

[Dame]

I do like the look not going to lie. I have one at PSA as we speak should 9 for sure crossing fingers for gem saw no flaw on the card.

Hope you get a 10, those are extremely tough grade. Had one in perfect condition and I guess a tiny part of the foil came off during grading. It still got a 9.5 on all 4 but yeah a bummer.

[Hellcat]

Hope you get a 10, those are extremely tough grade. Had one in perfect condition and I guess a tiny part of the foil came off during grading. It still got a 9.5 on all 4 but yeah a bummer.
You had to say it! That’s my worry also!

[duron]

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

Levy aren’t you a big, big time seller?

Even if there’s no uniform border on a card the centering still applies all the same. You can utilize things like player/team text and set logos as markers.

[shondamon]

I think they were underrated for a long time, but now overrated. Prices have gone berserk on high end Kobe rookies

[sonic311]

Do you guys know the grading parameters for the 96 Bowman’s best? It looks like bgs grades tough on centering, which I don’t understand. There’s no border on the card, how do they determine centering?

@mglevy125 I hope this helps.


499461

[duron]

^ exactly. Nice little job there.

[oldgoldy97]

Cesspool

[mglevy125]

Levy aren’t you a big, big time seller?

Even if there’s no uniform border on a card the centering still applies all the same. You can utilize things like player/team text and set logos as markers.

Haha, I guess I’ll take that as complement. Just a little unsure on that bowman, ive subbed several and have no idea why some do well and others don’t on centering.

[duron]

Haha, I guess I’ll take that as complement. Just a little unsure on that bowman, ive subbed several and have no idea why some do well and others don’t on centering.

Yea I'm sorry if that came across a bit dickish.
It's one of my favorite sets, curious which specific cards you subbed.

[Adam85]

Somebody got a crazy deal on this refractor.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KOBE-BRYANT-1997-98-TOPPS-CHROME-171-2ND-YEAR-CARD-LOS-ANGELES-LAKERS-/274647522809?hash=item3ff2449df9%3Ag%3A0f4AAOSwQvBgAK0Z&nma=true&si=XaNamIUKOFD0YucznTrLN5vWxIw%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[Hellcat]

I promise you it didn’t sell for $150. Fake news!

[csrockerzero]

Just wanted to chime in to say that the finest gold base rookie is insanely undervalued, compared against TC stuff.

[Brent72]

PSA 9 Finest 74 Refractor just sold for $17k last night :eek:

[KingLBJMJ]

So how rare are the NBA topps 50 compare to the TC refractor and finest refractors?.... I'm just happy I got 2500018