What if Pamini were to land MJ & LeBron?

[warrenwolk]

With the current insanity, imagine for a second how things would be if Upper Deck were to loosen its selfish hold on the MJ & LJ exclusives and suddenly the added possibility of pulling their autos from current Panini packs was a reality?

That 1/1 MJ/Zion auto patch might fetch a few pesos, hugh?

[Cavaliercards]

With the current insanity, imagine for a second how things would be if Upper Deck were to loosen its selfish hold on the MJ & LJ exclusives and suddenly the added possibility of pulling their autos from current Panini packs was a reality?

That 1/1 MJ/Zion auto patch might fetch a few pesos, hugh?

It is not UD loosening anything up.

UD is Jordan, Jordan is UD. It is his personal memorabilia company, he would have to want to leave and the company would shutdown.

LeBron wanted to be like Jordan so he followed his path. I doubt he ever leaves, but of the two he is the most likely.

[rainmaker]

It’s not going to happen.

[warrenwolk]

It is not UD loosening anything up.

UD is Jordan, Jordan is UD. It is his personal memorabilia company, he would have to want to leave and the company would shutdown.

LeBron wanted to be like Jordan so he followed his path. I doubt he ever leaves, but of the two he is the most likely.

So maybe nothing changes in the memorabilia department, but to limit Greats' autos to the garbage suit & tie cards that UD makes is a travesty. Maybe just sell Panini the trading card rights. Or better yet, maybe Panini makes MJ an offer he can't refuse. Seems like LJ would be an easier sale than MJ.

[Cavaliercards]

So maybe nothing changes in the memorabilia department, but to limit Greats' autos to the garbage suit & tie cards that UD makes is a travesty. Maybe just sell Panini the trading card rights. Or better yet, maybe Panini makes MJ an offer he can't refuse. Seems like LJ would be an easier sale than MJ.

Jordan is not going to sell his own rights to another company and hurt his own company.

MJ doesnt care if collectors only getting suit and ties, plenty of people paying UDA prices for other stuff.

Only offer Panini could make would be to buy UD at 10x the market price and maybe pay Jordan 20x his current rate.

LJ like I said is just as doubtful but his ties arent as strong as MJ's but they are close.

[warrenwolk]

It’s not going to happen.

I'm just asking, hypothetically, what you guys think the market would be like currently if it did happen...not asking if you think it will happen.

[Cavaliercards]

I'm just asking, hypothetically, what you guys think the market would be like currently if it did happen...not asking if you think it will happen.

Wont happen, but if they got LeBron. Panini would have to pay him spokesperson price and you would see prices drop for his autographs after a couple years, same as with Kobe and same as what happened with MJ in later NBA UD Years.

[warrenwolk]

Wont happen, but if they got LeBron. Panini would have to pay him spokesperson price and you would see prices drop for his autographs after a couple years, same as with Kobe and same as what happened with MJ in later NBA UD Years.

Once again, I'm not asking if it will happen. Pretend it already did...

[Cavaliercards]

Once again, I'm not asking if it will happen. Pretend it already did...

Well in things that will never happen, I gave ya a response and you quoted it, but it wont happen, you have a better chance of LeBron retiring tonight and going to play on the Olympic Handball Team for Russia.

[codered]

Better yet what if panini leased out their license for a fee and allowed UD to make 3 products. Think how much UD could charge for exquisite. Never gonna happen but it’s a cool hypothetical

[Chris P]

Once again, I'm not asking if it will happen. Pretend it already did...

He answered you lol

[warrenwolk]

Well in things that will never happen, I gave ya a response and you quoted it, but it wont happen, you have a better chance of LeBron retiring tonight and going to play on the Olympic Handball Team for Russia.

Whatever. Sorry for trying to start an interesting discussion. If I had said a year ago that a bunch of modern cards were gonna sell for over $5ok every day for months you would've had the same answer.

[Cavaliercards]

Whatever. Sorry for trying to start an interesting discussion. If I had said a year ago that a bunch of modern cards were gonna sell for over $5ok every day for months you would've had the same answer.

Actually no I would not have and I responded to you already about what would happen, so we were continuing the discussion.

[Dame]

It’s going to be insane, hypothetically speaking. A Zion/Lebron Logoman, Zion Jordan Lebron triple auto etc. Just having Jordan in some of Panini’s popular inserts, parallels would be crazy. Gold Prizm, Galactics, Kaboom, Nebula, Color Blast etc... a collectors dream for sure.

[YeahBuddy]

OP, I think cavaliercards gave you way more serious replies than many here would. Just saying.

These types of topics have been brought up many times before, so you could have gotten other old heads who would have told you to search before creating a thread yada yada yada.

Never the less, like Dame said would be a dream for sure.

[yaoming]

Why would panini spend more $$$ for Mj and LBJ?
They re literally printing money the way it is now
If they can sell zion and lamello ball why bother?
Think about it....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tjforce]

It is not UD loosening anything up.

UD is Jordan, Jordan is UD. It is his personal memorabilia company, he would have to want to leave and the company would shutdown.

LeBron wanted to be like Jordan so he followed his path. I doubt he ever leaves, but of the two he is the most likely.

OP, I think cavaliercards gave you way more serious replies than many here would. Just saying.

These types of topics have been brought up many times before, so you could have gotten other old heads who would have told you to search before creating a thread yada yada yada.

Never the less, like Dame said would be a dream for sure.

You guys are waaayy off base answering his question.

You guys keep talking about Panini for some reason, while OP is asking about Pamini!

Amateurs.

[CastleBeachCards]

LOL.......nice catchYou guys are waaayy off base answering his question.

You guys keep talking about Panini for some reason, while OP is asking about Pamini!

Amateurs.

[Kabuki]

I wish all the companies were able to do NBA cards. I use to visit our local target and had to choose between 1997-98 Skybox, Skybox Premium, Upper Deck, Topps...basketball! Yes there is retail versions of Metal and Premium.

[drobfan8]

Hypothetically, if Panini had MJ and Bron signing, we would see wax probably sell for double what it is now.

It would continue until there is an oversupply vs demand.

It's a shame we've been robbed of 10 years of Exquisite basketball.

[Archangel1775]

Upper Deck's the selfish one.....but the NBA/NBPA and Panini's are the ones that negotiated an exclusive license ..... makes sense

How about MJ knows a thing or two about brand, is invested in Upper Deck and could care less that Panini would want him to sign 1 million stickers in a week.

[Cavaliercards]

Hypothetically, if Panini had MJ and Bron signing, we would see wax probably sell for double what it is now.

It would continue until there is an oversupply vs demand.

It's a shame we've been robbed of 10 years of Exquisite basketball.

I agree with you, I wish all the leagues would do away with exclusives. Each company is in at current licensing agreement price.

[warrenwolk]

Hypothetically, if Panini had MJ and Bron signing, we would see wax probably sell for double what it is now.

It would continue until there is an oversupply vs demand.

It's a shame we've been robbed of 10 years of Exquisite basketball.

I agree. That's how I feel about the lack of their presence, like we're being robbed in a sense by not having their autos on current cards. In MJ's case, not even his image.

That was my point in asking the question - just trying to imagine how much crazier it would be than it already is if they came to the party. I too think it would be insane. How about cuts purchased on the open market? Are they prohibited too?

Thanks to those that didn't beat me down for trying to participate as a newbie, just trying to enjoy myself here. I have very little idea of how to navigate the forums, find topics that have been discussed previously, or even find my posts from last week. I apologize.

[warrenwolk]

I wish all the companies were able to do NBA cards. I use to visit our local target and had to choose between 1997-98 Skybox, Skybox Premium, Upper Deck, Topps...basketball! Yes there is retail versions of Metal and Premium.

I'm not a fan of exclusive contracts, but I do think "all the companies" being able to make them would be bad. A little competition is always healthy. Keeps companies on their toes.

[warrenwolk]

Better yet what if panini leased out their license for a fee and allowed UD to make 3 products. Think how much UD could charge for exquisite. Never gonna happen but it’s a cool hypothetical

I was thinking it would go the other way. Panini would pay UD just for the NBA licensed card rights. UD is a hockey card company for crying out loud.

Jordan left Chicago twice, LeBron left, well, everywhere he's been. It's not inconceivable.

[MavsRChamps]

To the OP - Great post idea, don’t pay attention to people acting like this is a pointless post. It’s better than most topics on the front page that are the same old threads. I think the board needs more creative/interesting discussions like this. Is it hypothetical, sure. But to say it 100% won’t happen down the road is just ridiculous.

I think it would make stuff blow up for sure, particularly the 1st year. Would also me amazing for the hobby.

[gomiamigo]

MJ's contract with UD ends in the near future, there's no reason to think he won't re-up an exclusive with them given his ownership, but Panini could always make a godfather offer for his shares if MJ wanted to leave.

MJ has said he 'doesn't do business for less than $10m' but obvs Panini would be offering more than that for his shares and an exclusive.

And Panini may not want to pay what MJ wants, even if he is willing to switch.

[yaoming]

MJ's contract with UD ends in the near future, there's no reason to think he won't re-up an exclusive with them given his ownership, but Panini could always make a godfather offer for his shares if MJ wanted to leave.

MJ has said he 'doesn't do business for less than $10m' but obvs Panini would be offering more than that for his shares and an exclusive.

And Panini may not want to pay what MJ wants, even if he is willing to switch.


Again why would panini pay more?
They re making $$$$ the way things are now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KhalDrogo]

MJ holding the rights to his likeness is more valuable than anything Panini could ever offer him. MJ’s relationship with UD isn’t about money.

[jubei777]

Ah the once a month hypothetical post about what if lebron and MJ went to panini.....

[warrenwolk]

To the OP - Great post idea, don’t pay attention to people acting like this is a pointless post. It’s better than most topics on the front page that are the same old threads. I think the board needs more creative/interesting discussions like this. Is it hypothetical, sure. But to say it 100% won’t happen down the road is just ridiculous.

I think it would make stuff blow up for sure, particularly the 1st year. Would also me amazing for the hobby.

Thank you Mavs, for being civil. Agreed!

[MavsRChamps]

Ah the once a month hypothetical post about what if lebron and MJ went to panini.....

I’ve been frequenting the boards somewhat consistently the past few months and have never seen a thread like this before.

Why the negative post?

[warrenwolk]

I’ve been frequenting the boards somewhat consistently the past few months and have never seen a thread like this before.

Why the negative post?

As the OP, negativity was the last thing I expected in a forum of card collectors. Maybe lurking for positive discussions may be a better approach for a newbie like myself. I want to contribute in a positive, upbeat fashion, not detract from the forums with negativity.

[warrenwolk]

MJ holding the rights to his likeness is more valuable than anything Panini could ever offer him. MJ’s relationship with UD isn’t about money.

I'll bet for UD it is!

[MavsRChamps]

As the OP, negativity was the last thing I expected in a forum of card collectors. Maybe lurking for positive discussions may be a better approach for a newbie like myself. I want to contribute in a positive, upbeat fashion, not detract from the forums with negativity.

I’ve noticed it more recently - honestly it’s across online forums I’ve found. It’s silly - I try to talk online the same way I do in real life. I guarantee you if you went into a room of strangers at a card show in person and asked this question, people would not respond in a negative way to it because ... that’s just mean & coming across as a jerk in real life. Yet online on pretty much all forums, social media - more and more people are feeling empowerment to be negative toward others. Anyway, I know I’m going on a tangent but it’s something very interesting for someone like myself who’s into psychology. I can’t remember myself ever shooting down someone’s thread in all my life on any message board. If I don’t like the thread, I just don’t respond.

[Thunderdunk]

MJ holding the rights to his likeness is more valuable than anything Panini could ever offer him. MJ’s relationship with UD isn’t about money.

This is exactly what Tiger Woods has said as well. Its more about controlling the fakes, and having control over the products that go out the door.

Tiger, MJ, LBJ are not going to switch to Panini...

[Cavaliercards]

MJ holding the rights to his likeness is more valuable than anything Panini could ever offer him. MJ’s relationship with UD isn’t about money.

This is the most important post in the thread.

[Cavaliercards]

I’ve been frequenting the boards somewhat consistently the past few months and have never seen a thread like this before.

Why the negative post?

It's not negative, it is just pointing out.

It is like saying what if MJ comes back this year, it is silly, but yes like anything can be discussed.

[knownas2letters]

I think it would be really hectic the first year or two and it certainly depends how much of those players big cards they produced. If they had autos in every panini product for a few years the overall value of their cards would take a hit at some point, however long that may be. I’d assume some of the VSM and UNC stuff they had for years would dip first l, then the new panini stuff. If the bulls had a huge rc in a draft one year and the shot at a Jordan auto, the price of them in a group break would be astounding. Same with the Lakers and any other jersey they featured LBJ in.

[pokerkeith]

I am amazed the price of nba boxes without the ability to pull a mj or lebron auto. If they did sign wiith panini i imagine it would only be for the high end products and no autos would be possible in retail packs.

[MavsRChamps]

It's not negative, it is just pointing out.

It is like saying what if MJ comes back this year, it is silly, but yes like anything can be discussed.

Yes it is negative. The poster was making a joke out of the OP starting this thread for no reason other than to put him down.

Again, imagine in real life there is a conversation in a room and someone for fun asks the group, "Hypothetically imagine if Panini signed Jordan/Lebron - How much would the cards go for?" - And then some stranger comes in and pokes fun at the person for asking the question and says "Ha ... etc etc" with no insinuation he was laughing in good fun. That would be being an #@#@#@hole.

Therefore, yes it is being an #@#@#@hole. But that seems to be the norm on these boards lately. None of these posters with these negative comments would be saying these comments in real life, at least I'd hope not.

[Cavaliercards]

Yes it is negative. The poster was making a joke out of the OP starting this thread for no reason other than to put him down.

Again, imagine in real life there is a conversation in a room and someone for fun asks the group, "Hypothetically imagine if Panini signed Jordan/Lebron - How much would the cards go for?" - And then some stranger comes in and pokes fun at the person for asking the question and says "Ha ... etc etc" with no insinuation he was laughing in good fun. That would be being an #@#@#@hole.

Therefore, yes it is being an #@#@#@hole. But that seems to be the norm on these boards lately. None of these posters with these negative comments would be saying these comments in real life, at least I'd hope not.

No it is not negative and no it is not the other word you are referring to either. The poster was pointing out the silliness and saying this thread is always asked and never changed.

No that person that comes in and pokes fun would not be, because they would be pointing out it would not happen.

I would hope people would say these things in real life as they are factual and not negative.

[warrenwolk]

Again why would panini pay more?
They re making $$$$ the way things are now

There's a difference between making $$$$ and making enough $$$$'s. The latter doesn't exist in business.

[warrenwolk]

I’ve noticed it more recently - honestly it’s across online forums I’ve found. It’s silly - I try to talk online the same way I do in real life. I guarantee you if you went into a room of strangers at a card show in person and asked this question, people would not respond in a negative way to it because ... that’s just mean & coming across as a jerk in real life. Yet online on pretty much all forums, social media - more and more people are feeling empowerment to be negative toward others. Anyway, I know I’m going on a tangent but it’s something very interesting for someone like myself who’s into psychology. I can’t remember myself ever shooting down someone’s thread in all my life on any message board. If I don’t like the thread, I just don’t respond.

Well Mavs, anytime you wanna talk cards I'm you're guy!

[gomiamigo]

I agree it's more likely Panini would offer than MJ would accept but at some price he'd accept, it's not like he can't write into the contract some levels of control over his likeness rights.

the people here pretending it's 'totally impossible' are just plain wrong.

[warrenwolk]

No it is not negative and no it is not the other word you are referring to either. The poster was pointing out the silliness and saying this thread is always asked and never changed.

No that person that comes in and pokes fun would not be, because they would be pointing out it would not happen.

I would hope people would say these things in real life as they are factual and not negative.

If you have nothing to say that's on-topic, just move on. Too many can't help saying what they're thinking. It just lessens a quality conversation.

Moving on, While UD made some epic sets like Exquisite, they proved themselves to be a shady company on numerous occasions, ultimately leading to them becoming the last of the Big-4 license holders. I don't see how restricting a product from being made that they aren't even allowed to make, benefits them. Surely the millions of dollars they would take in from Panini would. UD would still be able to sell MJ's signed balls and all would be good in the world.

And not to awaken the sleeping dragon but MJ does not own UD. He just keeps it viable.

[Cavaliercards]

If you have nothing to say that's on-topic, just move on. Too many can't help saying what they're thinking. It just lessens a quality conversation.

Moving on, While UD made some epic sets like Exquisite, they proved themselves to be a shady company on numerous occasions, ultimately leading to them becoming the last of the Big-4 license holders. I don't see how restricting a product from being made that they aren't even allowed to make, benefits them. Surely the millions of dollars they would take in from Panini would. UD would still be able to sell MJ's signed balls and all would be good in the world.

And not to awaken the sleeping dragon but MJ does not own UD. He just keeps it viable.

MJ is a stakeholder in UD that has been confirmed in documents in federal court.

Pretty obvious to anyone how it benefits them actually look at when they have released exquisite cards that are unlicensed of their exclusives including Simmons. People still go nuts for them.

[Cavaliercards]

There's a difference between making $$$$ and making enough $$$$'s. The latter doesn't exist in business.

And big difference between reality and non. Also a difference between having total control over your image and not.

[casebreaksllc]

I agree. That's how I feel about the lack of their presence, like we're being robbed in a sense by not having their autos on current cards. In MJ's case, not even his image.

That was my point in asking the question - just trying to imagine how much crazier it would be than it already is if they came to the party. I too think it would be insane. How about cuts purchased on the open market? Are they prohibited too?

Thanks to those that didn't beat me down for trying to participate as a newbie, just trying to enjoy myself here. I have very little idea of how to navigate the forums, find topics that have been discussed previously, or even find my posts from last week. I apologize.

once lebron retires panini will likely lose his image, too.

[oldgoldy97]

IF Panini got them then maybe we could let the nostalgia of UD finally die.

[Lothar]

Hypothetically? Oh it would be an insane first year of over production to chase Jordan & Lebron autos in NBA uniforms. I'm assuming production well over the amounts we see now as, if I recall correctly from court documents, his likeness charge is ten million dollars minimum and goes up from there. Ten million dollars.

[byronscott4ever]

I’m surprised UD is still around

[Cavaliercards]

once lebron retires panini will likely lose his image, too.

100% they will lose it

[Cavaliercards]

I’m surprised UD is still around

MJ not going to let them fail like he did his time in DC

[oldgoldy97]

I’m surprised UD is still around

They’re killing it in the hockey market.


I mean killing it.

[tmar214]

I believe the relationship with panini and UD has been worse lately. After UD signed some basketball rookies to exclusives panini signed Kaapo Kakko last years #2 hockey pick to an exclusive deal. Recently UD filed a lawsuit for Jordan's image being used on the rodman contenders card. Jordan is a billionaire is there an amount of money they could pay him that he would actually care about?

If Jordan and or lebron ended up in products I think their autos would fall at a similar rate to how Tom Brady does in football products. He is their most expensive veteran signer. A handful of autos in some lower to mid end products so they can advertise the autographs on sell sheets. Then a reasonable number of autos in the highest end products with the prices being 1.5-2x as high as they were for Zion.

[byronscott4ever]

They’re killing it in the hockey market.


I mean killing it.

That’s what it sounds like lol

[Cavaliercards]

I believe the relationship with panini and UD has been worse lately. After UD signed some basketball rookies to exclusives panini signed Kaapo Kakko last years #2 hockey pick to an exclusive deal. Recently UD filed a lawsuit for Jordan's image being used on the rodman contenders card. Jordan is a billionaire is there an amount of money they could pay him that he would actually care about?

If Jordan and or lebron ended up in products I think their autos would fall at a similar rate to how Tom Brady does in football products. He is their most expensive veteran signer. A handful of autos in some lower to mid end products so they can advertise the autographs on sell sheets. Then a reasonable number of autos in the highest end products with the prices being 1.5-2x as high as they were for Zion.

Brady also limits how much he signs, would MJ/LeBron or would they charge high price and sign more. Panini would take more Bradys if he would sign more at that price.

[warrenwolk]

Brady also limits how much he signs, would MJ/LeBron or would they charge high price and sign more. Panini would take more Bradys if he would sign more at that price.

None of those guys could ever sign enough to satisfy demand or lower prices on their sigs.

[ThoseBackPages]

my pants!

[warrenwolk]

They’re killing it in the hockey market.


I mean killing it.

How can you not be killing it when you're the only game in town? All the companies holding these exclusive contracts are killing it. No disrespect meant to Leaf, In the Game, whatever it's called. Scratch that - disrespect meant lol!

[hearseguy]

Wax prices would probably triple. We'd have $1500 hoops boxes.

[orion9578]

MJ holding the rights to his likeness is more valuable than anything Panini could ever offer him. MJ’s relationship with UD isn’t about money.

This.

And it's already been mentioned but...MJ is currently a Billionaire and LeBron will be before to long. Not sure what exactly Panini would or could offer for them to leave.

With both being Billionaires(or will be in LeBrons case)...why would they want to sign a bunch of stuff? They barely sign anything as is(thus UDA stuff moving higher and higher). Doubtful they want to take the time/effort to sign a bunch of cards.

MJ already owns a team and you can bet Lebron will one day. Bigger fish to fry than signing cards. They're trying to take over their world(NBA).

[scotthenrichs]

Saw this picture on Facebook and thought of this thread. Too bad it’s so tiny, not sure who the photoshop credit goes to.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50902820643_38071a2c13_o.jpg

[byronscott4ever]

How can you not be killing it when you're the only game in town? All the companies holding these exclusive contracts are killing it. No disrespect meant to Leaf, In the Game, whatever it's called. Scratch that - disrespect meant lol!

Funny, I took it to mean that they are killing it in a bad way

[Silverandgold]

Main question should be which big name will switch to UD? Would be nice to see a KD or Brady switch over.

[bjho852]

Main question should be which big name will switch to UD? Would be nice to see a KD or Brady switch over.

KD was once with UD for a short time when the company still had the NBA trading card license, then switched over to Panini in 2011.

[k13]

None of those guys could ever sign enough to satisfy demand or lower prices on their sigs.

Yeah they would.
That's the only reason the autos went up.

Otherwise it be $300 MJ and $200 LJ