Inserts have ruined the hobby

[Rayn13]

There I said it, but where do we go from here? 1/1 signed Jockstrap cards?

Used to be that each rookie may have 3 rookie cards ( 4 if you count sports flicks ), now you have not only multiple issues from multiple companies, but multiple different parallel sets of that company. Base rookies have basically became chump change.

Love to hear your thoughts on this.

[tribefan26]

Is it 1992 again?

[Rayn13]

Is it 1992 again?

Yes, and I’m well stocked on my Brien Taylor Rookies, including the Topps gold insert ( not the winner gold - the real one per box gold). 😉😁

[AwesomeBrian]

Too many Variations/Parallels are ruining... inserts have their place

[anusinha]

Yeah, this seems like a complaint I heard back in 1992

[rogueriver]

Personally I think inserts have saved the hobby.....Now do we have too many nowdays that is a different argument.....I think too many sets and too many variations is a bad thing. Something along the lines of what Donruss did during the early 1990s would be prefect. I few easy to get inserts and 1 or 2 really tough inserts to pull like Elite for example. But the way things are going when you buy a box for $500 and it only comes with 4 cards I dont think is working well. I have not opened a box in almost 2 years. But what do I know the hobby seems to be doing pretty well, maybe it just left some of us behind. I think they will have a huge problem in 20 years when kids today become the collector of tomorrow and dont have the memories of busting packs.

[Rayn13]

Personally I think inserts have saved the hobby.....Now do we have too many nowdays that is a different argument.....I think too many sets and too many variations is a bad thing. Something along the lines of what Donruss did during the early 1990s would be prefect. I few easy to get inserts and 1 or 2 really tough inserts to pull like Elite for example. But the way things are going when you buy a box for $500 and it only comes with 4 cards I dont think is working well. I have not opened a box in almost 2 years. But what do I know the hobby seems to be doing pretty well, maybe it just left some of us behind. I think they will have a huge problem in 20 years when kids today become the collector of tomorrow and dont have the memories of busting packs.

This is kinda where I am going with this. That and people camping out at target to grab boxes before anyone else can just so they can resell because of the chance of getting a high dollar parallel or insert.

[JeffG1954]

There I said it, but where do we go from here? 1/1 signed Jockstrap cards?

Used to be that each rookie may have 3 rookie cards ( 4 if you count sports flicks ), now you have not only multiple issues from multiple companies, but multiple different parallel sets of that company. Base rookies have basically became chump change.

Love to hear your thoughts on this.

I disagree.

I think grading ruined the hobby by turning it into a business.

[monkeymcgee]

This all comes down to if you're a collector or you're a seller.

[jlzinck]

I think sneakerheads, "influencers", flippers and Retail hoarders have ruined the hobby but that's just me

[mc1]

Folks been saying this for 25 years.

Your post is confusing since your title says inserts ruined the hobby but your post talks about base rookies.

Also, wrong section.

[Rayn13]

Folks been saying this for 25 years.

Your post is confusing since your title says inserts ruined the hobby but your post talks about base rookies.

Also, wrong section.

By base, I mean non parallel versions

[jamcas997]

I think sneakerheads, "influencers", flippers and Retail hoarders have ruined the hobby but that's just me



Yup the Sneakerheads were a big drive in retail flip movement. One of the biggest issues I see is how many Breakers there are now. Everyone wants to be a breaker and idiots paying stupid money to them driving product up. I used to be able to buy cases of most every product and squeeze every penny I could out of it. Now I have to take what I can get.

[mrmojorisin71]

Yes, and I’m well stocked on my Brien Taylor Rookies, including the Topps gold insert ( not the winner gold - the real one per box gold). 😉😁

Nothing I don’t love about this comment.

[MoreToppsPlease]

I think grading ruined the hobby by turning it into a business.

I think grading is another completely different “hobby”. People are paying for the slab, not the card.

[seanbros55]

Club 13!!!!

[towerymt]

They should have stopped with the Refractor. :coffee:

Don't collect the ones you don't like.

[SupermanBrandon]

I disagree.

I think grading ruined the hobby by turning it into a business.


You already know this but every player in this “hobby” is a business…except for one. Sports Leagues, Card Companies, Distributors, Athletes, Manufacturers, LCSs, Social Media, Card Shows, Supplies, YouTube, Beckett, Blowout, TPG, etc etc etc are businesses with the intent of making money! The only player in this hobby that it’s not a business for, is the “true hobbyist”. Always has. Always will be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cardinalsooner]

Inserts are fine, most of Topps insert sets are crap so no one is interested in them. There are way to many parallels for every product.

[oldgoldy97]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg

[CardboardCombat]

Get off my lawn!

[tonedef2oo8]

See ya new guy.

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

There I said it, but where do we go from here? 1/1 signed Jockstrap cards?

Used to be that each rookie may have 3 rookie cards ( 4 if you count sports flicks ), now you have not only multiple issues from multiple companies, but multiple different parallel sets of that company. Base rookies have basically became chump change.

Love to hear your thoughts on this.

Sounds boring. I like being able to buy a bunch of different RC’s of the players I collect. I like being able to get something nicer than base of my favorite guys. Base rookies have been chump change for 30+ years, even when for a moment in the 90’s we thought they weren’t.

If all you want to collect is base rookies, isn’t the world a great place for you right now? Those are cheap! Just buy them on eBay, no need to rip wax. What would you want to rip wax for if you don’t want to find anything other than base?

[marinocollector]

Back in the day, you old foggies would buy as many of one rookie card as you could. Lots of 100 Tino Martinez RCs was a thing. Congratulations, you can turn $200 into $400 if he gets hot.
Guess what? You whiny such and suches can still buy your 100 rookie cards of whatever player you want, but now you get all sorts of flavors.

The issue isn't the parallel or the insert or there being too many, the issue is you greedy little nubgrubbers wanting the "best and most valuable" and liked it when that rookie card would be a $5 item from a .50 pack.

Well guess what buddy? Superfractors of top RCs are 5 - 7 digit items while the base version bring in double to triple digits. Everything is the same as it was in 1988, you're just collecting wrong and feel entitled to the best.

[cardsin47]

It’s Hobby progress / evolution. Just imagine what a Hobby Box of Cards will consist of in just 10 Years?

“As long you’re green you’re growing, as soon as you’re ripe you start to rot”

[detroitbball]

Just my thoughts to OP question:
1. Too many sets/parallels/inserts of the same player make it hard for a collector to wrap their minds around what to collect. Which sets? Which parallels? Which inserts? Back in 1975 we just had one set of cards, and one George Brett rookie to worry about. Now that was TOO simplistic, and some variety is good, but its just out of hand now.
2. Too many sets/parallels/inserts of the same player, in the aggregate, can potentially nullify the concept of scarcity overall. If you add up all the, for example, Bo Bichette 2020 base, parallels, and inserts across all the sets, you have well over a million Bo Bichette cards for 2020 floating around out there. So in aggregate, you are starting to approach the print runs of the late 1980s. Not early 90's, YET. But it just keeps increasing each year, and now with the Fanatics deal, I suspect Topps and Panini will go out in a blaze of glory, unless they strike a deal with Fanatics.

[Triple B]

I disagree.

I think grading ruined the hobby by turning it into a business.

This hobby has been in business mode since 1989. You can still collect what you like and let others flip and make money if you’re smart about it.

[MoreToppsPlease]

This hobby has been in business mode since 1989. You can still collect what you like and let others flip and make money if you’re smart about it.

You’re not describing a hobby, you want everyone to be at work flipping, making cards more expensive…which turns more people into flippers to afford the now more expensive cards…which turns more people into flippers…the smartest people here don’t collect cards at all but turn the wheel. I think you’re a wheel-turner here.

[theshowandme]

You do not have to buy them

[kon jelly]

Where are all these collectors overwhelmed by all the sets/parallels/inserts that don't know what to collect? Seems like it's easy to say they exist but no one is standing up and saying "I'm confused and don't know what I should collect."

The actual collectors will collect what they like, just like they always have.

It's the flippers that are annoyed at the amount of product because it makes it harder for them to know what to put money into for resale. Oh no you're stuck with a case of Spectra Baseball because no one wants to buy it at $300/box? Cry me a river.

[MoreToppsPlease]

Where are all these collectors overwhelmed by all the sets/parallels/inserts that don't know what to collect? Seems like it's easy to say they exist but no one is standing up and saying "I'm confused and don't know what I should collect."

The actual collectors will collect what they like, just like they always have.

It's the flippers that are annoyed at the amount of product because it makes it harder for them to know what to put money into for resale. Oh no you're stuck with a case of Spectra Baseball because no one wants to buy it at $300/box? Cry me a river.

I think this is true until they decide to collude and work together to maximize their profit.

[koneil]

Still confused how inserts specifically ruined the hobby

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

Still confused how inserts specifically ruined the hobby

Yeah, OP wasn’t very clear on this, but it seems to be another case of someone who is upset at the high cost of wax. Collectors/flippers chasing rare inters and parallels are the main drivers of the increase in wax prices over the last few years.

[Skipscards]

https://c.tenor.com/FHAPEuXxUKcAAAAd/grumpy-dana-carvey.gif

[Robles Fan]

There are lots of things going on in the hobby today that displeases me (i.e. too many needless product lines, way too many parallels, lack of competition from other card manufacturers, ever growing emphasis on grading, overhyped prospects selling for crazy ridiculous amounts, etc.). But I don't see where simply having inserts is putting a hurt on it in any way.

[koneil]

Yeah, OP wasn’t very clear on this, but it seems to be another case of someone who is upset at the high cost of wax. Collectors/flippers chasing rare inters and parallels are the main drivers of the increase in wax prices over the last few years.
Yep OP is in the wrong thread. No one is camping outside Walmarts trying to cash in on the chase for Dawn of Glory inserts

[detroitbball]

Where are all these collectors overwhelmed by all the sets/parallels/inserts that don't know what to collect? Seems like it's easy to say they exist but no one is standing up and saying "I'm confused and don't know what I should collect."

The actual collectors will collect what they like, just like they always have.

It's the flippers that are annoyed at the amount of product because it makes it harder for them to know what to put money into for resale. Oh no you're stuck with a case of Spectra Baseball because no one wants to buy it at $300/box? Cry me a river.
The confused ones are people who were out of the hobby for a long time and came back in the last couple of years. It's a pretty steep learning curve at first until you figure out what's what. Anyone in the hobby for a while won't have this problem. I've seen quite a few posts from people over in the basketball forums to this point.

[Triple B]

You’re not describing a hobby, you want everyone to be at work flipping, making cards more expensive…which turns more people into flippers to afford the now more expensive cards…which turns more people into flippers…the smartest people here don’t collect cards at all but turn the wheel. I think you’re a wheel-turner here.

You’re free to think whatever you want. The fact is that if you want to enjoy the hobby side of things, you have to deal with the hand you’re dealt. There are people on these boards literally giving base cards away. Take those base cards and enjoy the hobby side…build sets, collect players you like, etc. The griping of “it’s a business” usually comes from people with caviar tastes and dollar store budgets. You can find A LOT of joy in collecting while everyone else does their thing.

The news flash here is that it isn’t 1965 any more where you can buy packs from the drug store for 5 cents. Everything around you has evolved but if YOU can’t evolve with it, you’re stuck complaining about it “not being a hobby” and about how everyone is spinning wheels.

Last I checked, bottles still had caps on them.

[MoreToppsPlease]

You’re free to think whatever you want. The fact is that if you want to enjoy the hobby side of things, you have to deal with the hand you’re dealt. There are people on these boards literally giving base cards away. Take those base cards and enjoy the hobby side…build sets, collect players you like, etc. The griping of “it’s a business” usually comes from people with caviar tastes and dollar store budgets. You can find A LOT of joy in collecting while everyone else does their thing.

The news flash here is that it isn’t 1965 any more where you can buy packs from the drug store for 5 cents. Everything around you has evolved but if YOU can’t evolve with it, you’re stuck complaining about it “not being a hobby” and about how everyone is spinning wheels.

Last I checked, bottles still had caps on them.

You are what you are, no need for a big explanation, wheel-turner :coffee:

[MiamiMarlinsFan]

The confused ones are people who were out of the hobby for a long time and came back in the last couple of years. It's a pretty steep learning curve at first until you figure out what's what. Anyone in the hobby for a while won't have this problem. I've seen quite a few posts from people over in the basketball forums to this point.

You’re right, and I’ve seen those posts too. That describes me when I came back to the hobby in 2016, but figuring it all out was kind of the fun for me.

[ThoseBackPages]

Club 13!!!!

nailed it

[detroitbball]

You’re right, and I’ve seen those posts too. That describes me when I came back to the hobby in 2016, but figuring it all out was kind of the fun for me.
There can be a "joy in the journey" figuring it all out, this is true.

[ThoseBackPages]

Base cards ARE Rookie Cards! :)

[Kobe101]

There I said it, but where do we go from here? 1/1 signed Jockstrap cards?

Used to be that each rookie may have 3 rookie cards ( 4 if you count sports flicks ), now you have not only multiple issues from multiple companies, but multiple different parallel sets of that company. Base rookies have basically became chump change.

Love to hear your thoughts on this.

How can something you can just completely ignore ruin the hobby for you?

I only collect inserts.

I don't like a lot of the crap that gets produced either so I just don't buy it.

I would never let it "ruin" the hobby for me that is silly.

[Triple B]

You are what you are, no need for a big explanation, wheel-turner :coffee:

How’s that dollar store caviar taste? Just add me to the list of people that constantly have to explain to you how things work.

[unclemonkey]

Parallels and inserts have their place.

I bought a few 1/1's of Yordan Alvarez and Cody Bellinger

When I sat down and ranked them in relation to other desirable cards from XYZ brand, auto, non auto, red, orange, 1983 throwback whatever, etc... realized they were at best top 40 in the pecking order or probably much worse.

Made them easier to sell because how many buyers for a 1/1 1985Topps Chrome Yordan Alvarez?

Loved the cards but they were more of a flip anyway.

Turned around and bought orange versions for 1/20th the price.

Hate auto BTW.... love Orange

Just my preferences... lol

[mfw13]

Blanket statements aren't really helpful....nothing has ruined the hobby in and of itself.

Most of what I collect today are inserts with designs I like....what I find frustrating is the fact that Topps includes too many different inserts in a given product, seeded only 2-3 per box, thus making it very difficult to complete any given insert set.

I'd much rather pull six cards from a single insert set, than one card each from six different insert sets.

My pet peeve is the endless color parallels....black is the only color parallel that consistently looks good with all players/teams....the rest are useless fluff.

[tonedef2oo8]

It’s a hobby, if you can’t afford it then it’s no longer your hobby. It’s not the hobby’s fault for being so popular it’s your bosses fault for not paying you more.

[MoreToppsPlease]

How’s that dollar store caviar taste? Just add me to the list of people that constantly have to explain to you how things work.

I think I described your role quite nicely, you’ve nothing to be ashamed of.

At least the caviar there is better than the cat food you rave about :D

[MoreToppsPlease]

It’s a hobby, if you can’t afford it then it’s no longer your hobby. It’s not the hobby’s fault for being so popular it’s your bosses fault for not paying you more.

It’s not a hobby but a job when the majority of one’s time is spent selling.

[Triple B]

I think I described your role quite nicely, you’ve nothing to be ashamed of.

At least the caviar there is better than the cat food you rave about :D

You’re fighting pretty hard for a guy that’s incorrect.

TBP said it above, base cards are RCs also. If you want it to be a hobby, it can be. If you want to be right, you can stay the course you’re on. Incorrect as it may be.

But ya, tell me again about how I’M spinning.

[MoreToppsPlease]

You’re fighting pretty hard for a guy that’s incorrect.

TBP said it above, base cards are RCs also. If you want it to be a hobby, it can be. If you want to be right, you can stay the course you’re on. Incorrect as it may be.

But ya, tell me again about how I’M spinning.

Yes, you’re definitely putting plenty of spin on a business role.

It’s OK to say you need to profit off collectors to be here…the first step is to set yourself free and admit it.

[Triple B]

Yes, you’re definitely putting plenty of spin on a business role.

It’s OK to say you need to profit off collectors to be here…the first step is to set yourself free and admit it.

Admit it? I’m all about it. I buy low to sell high.

The point that’s going over your head is that YOU don’t need to participate in what I do to enjoy the hobby side of it. You’re too busy trying to be clever to get that. I have a PC that I enjoy adding to and upgrading and I also know how to monetize the hobby so that I don’t have to pay for anything with the money I work for or run up wild credit card debt.

Am I still spinning? I guess so.

[GaryPayton]

I have 3 of 4 Cal Ripken RCs and about 26 Ryan Mouncastle Rookie Cards from Topps/Bowman, I still am looking for more, with all the inserts, autos and parallels there might me well over 100 to chase. I think its fun to collect more of a rookie rather than less.

[oddstuff]

"Ruined", no...changed the hobby, for sure. For some the numerous parallels and inserts have made collecting a lot more difficult/expensive and not fun. For others who have adapted and increased their hobby budget, it's made the chase more fun. I use to collect the good ole single brand Topps in the mid 70s and then Topps/Donruss/Fleer in the 80s. In the past 5 years, I began to collect both base and numbered parallels as I'm older and have a larger budget for "hobby". Do what you need to do...get out if it's too expensive and take on a less expensive hobby. Nobody is entitled to have a hobby...it's an extracurricular activity. Griping about it is not productive.