What is your profit margin goal?

[thenightman]

To all you sports card sellers out there, I'm curious to know, what do you consider to be a good profit margin on the cards you sell? What are you shooting for? I've heard 30 to 40%, but that was just one person. What do you think?

[Sonnys88]

Really depends on what the product is.

If its high-end and / or very in-demand - then I work on smaller margins around 10%.

If its low-end and / or less-demand - then I work on 30 to 40% and higher margins.

[checkoutmydeals]

One thing to try is to look at stuff you actually have sold and figure out how much profit you made on each item, in terms of percentages, dollars, asking price, or any other factor which might be relevant.

Then, sort the results by whatever factor you want to look at and see where 50% of your profits came from.

After that, maybe set that as a minimum target on future purchases.

So, if 50% of your profits came from items with asking price $x or more, and 50% of your profits came from items with gross margins of $y or more, and 50% of your profits came from items with gross margins of z% or more, then maybe in the future you look for opportunities to sell items for at least $x and gross margins of at least $y or z%.

What's nice about this sort of approach is that it can scale up or down over time, depending on market conditions.

[premium1981]

Really depends on what the product is.


Bingo. Big difference in percentages in selling prospect that you hit on vs a case of Flawless basketball. Percentages are truly based on what you are involved in and I don't think there is a general rule of thumb that can be used.

[regionrat]

I wonder what other sellers profit margin goals are for low end lots and lower end cards?

[boxbuster7]

Bingo. Big difference in percentages in selling prospect that you hit on vs a case of Flawless basketball. Percentages are truly based on what you are involved in and I don't think there is a general rule of thumb that can be used.

too soon :p

I'm at about 40-50% before taxes. I used to be happy if I was able to double my money on item, but when cards exploded that viewpoint kind of changed. I was like, maybe I should have just held on to some of that stuff I sold in 2016/2017 at double my money. Hindsights 30/20, however.

And I find my biggest profits aren't from the shiny stuff that everybody wants, but the stuff that takes research, watching, and conviction. And to add to that point, most of my sales aren't from big players or high $ cards. But rather the low end stuff everybody dumps for pennies on the dollar. It is a lot of work, but an honest living. And it is pretty much guaranteed as I don't lose money on 99% of the cards I sell. So profit margin isn't something I really even care about.

[thenightman]

One thing to try is to look at stuff you actually have sold and figure out how much profit you made on each item, in terms of percentages, dollars, asking price, or any other factor which might be relevant.

Then, sort the results by whatever factor you want to look at and see where 50% of your profits came from.

After that, maybe set that as a minimum target on future purchases.

So, if 50% of your profits came from items with asking price $x or more, and 50% of your profits came from items with gross margins of $y or more, and 50% of your profits came from items with gross margins of z% or more, then maybe in the future you look for opportunities to sell items for at least $x and gross margins of at least $y or z%.

What's nice about this sort of approach is that it can scale up or down over time, depending on market conditions.

That's a lot of really great information! I have taken a more general view over the last year, but I've been looking to ratchet things up and based on what you're saying, looking at sets and players separately would definitely help minimize any potential traps or unnecessary risks. It would also give me a better idea on what I should be looking to price cards at.

[mjohnatgt]

When I buy cards, I normally am trying to at least double my money on them, usually triple or quadruple. I'll reduce the price over time if they aren't selling, but normally my selections pan out or I have more information/knowledge than the sellers of the cards do.

[thenightman]

Really depends on what the product is.

If its high-end and / or very in-demand - then I work on smaller margins around 10%.

If its low-end and / or less-demand - then I work on 30 to 40% and higher margins.

I've been arbitraging low to mid-end and dabbling in high-end. I definitely agree that you can have a smaller margin on higher end cards if you're looking at how much $ you're getting in return; clearly 10% of a card you bought for $500 and flipped for $550 is gonna be better than 50% of a card you bought for $10 and sold for $15.

[checkoutmydeals]

There are tradeoffs to everything in life. Some questions that are worth asking are "what tradeoffs am I willing to make to get 30% markup instead of 10%? What tradeoffs would I make to get 100% or 200%?"

I'd also recommend looking at items in similar price ranges, and also try to figure out which price buckets are worth pursuing.

The numbers can be surprising when you look at them. For example, I once figured out that the average COMC flip which I paid 1 cent for during a particular period of time sold for 3000% markup.

However, during that same time, I made 8,000 TIMES as much profit on flips which sold for $2 to $2.50.

So, I don't look for penny cards anymore. If I happen to see a card for a penny, I would rather look at the seller's other items. Often times, they have very reasonable prices on items which are much more valuable.

I also once figured out that I made over 70% of my profit on items which had been in my account for less than a year. Because of this, I now use the bulk repricing program every month and reduce the price of anything which hasn't been revised in 90 days.

One problem I've had with percentages is that the results can be really skewed toward cheap items. To counteract this, I now add a phantom 25 cents to the buying price of items on COMC. So a "1 cent" item is now considered a 26 cent item for the purpose of figuring out whether or not I want to buy it. But a card with an asking price of $24.75 would be considered to be a $25 card.

One reason for this is that it would cost 25 cents if I wanted to take physical delivery. Since I made this change, the items I've been picking up are better quality than they were before, and generally better quality than average item I've been selling.

In real life, you might consider something similar. For example, if you're going to list items yourself on eBay, you might add $1 or $3 or $5 mentally to the buying price of items. So if you are at a show looking at someone's dollar box, you might consider it to be their $6 box. But if you're looking at an item for $50 you might consider it to be $55.

Alternately, you might mentally add a fee to raw cards equal to the amount it would cost to have the card graded. Or you might mentally add a fee to cards you intend to resell, but waive that fee if it's a card you would keep for you personal collection.

[checkoutmydeals]

Another thing to consider is what you intend to do with the item if it doesn't sell, or doesn't sell for your preferred price in your preferred venue within your preferred period of time.

In other words, what is plan B.

Thinking in these terms, you can look at upside vs downside. From this standpoint, some things might make sense which didn't make as much sense if you were looking strictly at markup percentages.

I'd also consider whether the item has any appeal as part of a group lot or in multiples. For example, if you might be able to bundle it as a set or subset, or if one person is likely to buy 10 or 20 copies of the same card.

[thenightman]

There are tradeoffs to everything in life. Some questions that are worth asking are "what tradeoffs am I willing to make to get 30% markup instead of 10%? What tradeoffs would I make to get 100% or 200%?"

I'd also recommend looking at items in similar price ranges, and also try to figure out which price buckets are worth pursuing.

The numbers can be surprising when you look at them. For example, I once figured out that the average COMC flip which I paid 1 cent for during a particular period of time sold for 3000% markup.

However, during that same time, I made 8,000 TIMES as much profit on flips which sold for $2 to $2.50.

So, I don't look for penny cards anymore. If I happen to see a card for a penny, I would rather look at the seller's other items. Often times, they have very reasonable prices on items which are much more valuable.

I also once figured out that I made over 70% of my profit on items which had been in my account for less than a year. Because of this, I now use the bulk repricing program every month and reduce the price of anything which hasn't been revised in 90 days.

One problem I've had with percentages is that the results can be really skewed toward cheap items. To counteract this, I now add a phantom 25 cents to the buying price of items on COMC. So a "1 cent" item is now considered a 26 cent item for the purpose of figuring out whether or not I want to buy it. But a card with an asking price of $24.75 would be considered to be a $25 card.

One reason for this is that it would cost 25 cents if I wanted to take physical delivery. Since I made this change, the items I've been picking up are better quality than they were before, and generally better quality than average item I've been selling.

In real life, you might consider something similar. For example, if you're going to list items yourself on eBay, you might add $1 or $3 or $5 mentally to the buying price of items. So if you are at a show looking at someone's dollar box, you might consider it to be their $6 box. But if you're looking at an item for $50 you might consider it to be $55.

Alternately, you might mentally add a fee to raw cards equal to the amount it would cost to have the card graded. Or you might mentally add a fee to cards you intend to resell, but waive that fee if it's a card you would keep for you personal collection.

Another thing to consider is what you intend to do with the item if it doesn't sell, or doesn't sell for your preferred price in your preferred venue within your preferred period of time.

In other words, what is plan B.

Thinking in these terms, you can look at upside vs downside. From this standpoint, some things might make sense which didn't make as much sense if you were looking strictly at markup percentages.

I'd also consider whether the item has any appeal as part of a group lot or in multiples. For example, if you might be able to bundle it as a set or subset, or if one person is likely to buy 10 or 20 copies of the same card.

This was a great read and I like the way you look at things! Thank you for all of the advice!

[rwperu34]

I'm trying to balance two things; ROI and hourly rate. So like everyone said, it's different for different price levels and target future sales date. My hope is for every $100 in gross sales;

1) Pay 20% in fees, shipping, supplies, and other expense (Gixen, lost packages...etc).
2) Put 20% in my pocket.
3) Use the remaining 60% to replace inventory.

That would put my ROI at ~33% net, or 67% gross. But again, it varies greatly by card.

So far I've hit those targets, but I haven't really liquidated many cards at a loss yet....so we'll see.

[tdbaseballcards]

Overall for the entire year for everything I want to be around 40%.

I view each card as it's own thing and I don't focus as much on the %.

If I'm at a show and I see a card I can buy for $20 & sell to someone else at that same show for $25, I'll take that $5 profit for a same day easy flip.

A big factor to me that I consider is how long I think it will take to sell the item. I like quick flips because I can re-invest the money and grow it over time. I'm not in the prospect hold game because it can take a long time to recover the money. I like to have an average around 30 days from when I buy something to when it sells.

The big question I ask myself when buying something is, can I make money on this? Then how long/how much. Then finally, how much effort.

I'm not a fan of under $5 items. In most cases it requires a lot of effort for not a lot of money. Yes, I can make killer margins on them.

It will also vary based upon where you sell items. Selling on eBay is more effort that on COMC. Selling at a show can be easier depending on your setup/strategy. I can buy a bulk lot and throw it all in a box priced for $1. Whatever doesn't sell after a few shows can get price dropped in bulk. I've recently started selling on WhatNot and put up low end cards for an hour or 2 and make a couple hundred bucks. I have a full time job, so for me I don't want to spend a ton of time on cards without it being 'worth it' to me.

Lastly, each person has different financial goals and situations.

[natbornkiller]

https://c.tenor.com/DW5ZyG7CIzEAAAAC/dr-evil-one-billion.gif

[shrevecity]

All depends on the amount invested storage and time involved in selling the item. The faster I can sell it the less margin I need. The lower I pay the higher margin I want. The longer I have to store the item the higher margin I want.

[Stifle]

All depends on the amount invested storage and time involved in selling the item. The faster I can sell it the less margin I need. The lower I pay the higher margin I want. The longer I have to store the item the higher margin I want.


Very good reply. I believe it’s more dependent in what the persons role is in the hobby. A dealer that sets up that doesn’t own a LCS may have lower percentages. A Ebay seller may have even less while a collector may not even have a percentage because before they became willing to sell. The purchase wasn’t intended for profit but as a hobby.

The % is kind of dependent of what the person is to the hobby. When I was accumulating a hundred rare Brady Rookie cards in 00. I told a KC Chiefs collector in New Jersey that they would be utilized for trade, because he couldn’t understand why I was picking up all his cards. Who would have thought he would be GOAT.

[byronscott4ever]

It’s a side business for me. When sales are slow, I may accept a bit less on some things. Some just want big flips but I’m fine buying stuff that makes me a few bucks as it all adds up. Patience pays off as I’ve had multiple items where bidders tell me the price is too high and it seems it sells for closer to my price than theirs.

[shrevecity]

Very good reply. I believe it’s more dependent in what the persons role is in the hobby. A dealer that sets up that doesn’t own a LCS may have lower percentages. A Ebay seller may have even less while a collector may not even have a percentage because before they became willing to sell. The purchase wasn’t intended for profit but as a hobby.

The % is kind of dependent of what the person is to the hobby. When I was accumulating a hundred rare Brady Rookie cards in 00. I told a KC Chiefs collector in New Jersey that they would be utilized for trade, because he couldn’t understand why I was picking up all his cards. Who would have thought he would be GOAT.

Another thing I see is some literally refuse to sell anything unless they make a profit. That is not always a viable option either keeping cash moving is the key to making money even if it means taking small hits you can roll those into other items that may make money and sell faster than the item you lost a few dollars on.

[jamcas997]

Another thing I see is some literally refuse to sell anything unless they make a profit. That is not always a viable option either keeping cash moving is the key to making money even if it means taking small hits you can roll those into other items that may make money and sell faster than the item you lost a few dollars on.


I know that guy. He sets up at my LCS and has had the same autos and relic cards for over 3 years. After I set up at the last show I asked him about prices for 2 3200 cnt boxes that were maybe 2/3 full each. He said see him later. At the end of the show it looked like not much had been picked over at all. I made an offer and he said well I have Chantilly in 3 weeks. THe guy just cant stand if someone makes $$ off what he couldnt.

The profit would not have been much , but would have been nice to increase my inventory.

[sals_cardz]

great post. my question is where do you find these deals? its hard for me to find deals. where do you guys sell the cards at? ebay? fb? ig?1

[mc1]

10x - 100x

[rwperu34]

great post. my question is where do you find these deals? its hard for me to find deals. where do you guys sell the cards at? ebay? fb? ig?1

I buy and sell on eBay.

[checkoutmydeals]

If you deal in items you wouldn't mind keeping for yourself, it isn't strictly necessary to take losses just to free up cash flow.

As a hypothetical example, suppose you buy 1200 widgets for $1 each. You price them at a 200% markup (that is, $3 each.) Then you sell enough widgets at this price to get your $1200 back (this could take days, months, or years). You have 800 widgets left.

You reprice these widgets for 150% markup. When you sell 160 widgets, you price them at 100% markup. When you sell 160 widgets, you price them at 50% markup. When you sell 160 widgets, you price them at 0% markup. The final 160 widgets you price at 1/2 the price you paid (that is, you are selling for a loss).

The revenue stream will be as follows:
$1200 at 3x
$400 at $2.50 ($1600 total)
$320 at $2 ($1,920 total)
$240 at $1.50 ($2,160 total)
$160 at $1 ($2,320 total)
$80 at 50 cents ($2,400 total)

So, if you were to sell 100% of your items with this price scheme, you would ultimately double, turning $1200 into $2400, ignoring friction such as selling fees and storage fees.

If you refused to sell at a loss, you could take the 160 items and put them in your sock drawer. If so, you would make $80 less in revenue, about 3% of the total revenue.

When I look at my own numbers over a certain period of time, I see that items sold for a loss accounted for 1/800th of my total sales over that time period.

Over that same time period, the gross profit from items which sold for at least 200% markup was over 1,500 TIMES as much as the gross loss from the items which sold for a loss.

Additionally, the average item which sold for a triple sold 62% faster than the average item, and 736% faster than the average item which sold for a loss.

So, while one could recoup some money by selling some items for a loss, it would probably be better to spend time trying to identify which factors make an item likely to sell for triple, and likely to sell faster than the average item.

At some point, the limiting factor isn't the amount of money it takes to buy profitable items, but the amount of time it takes to identify, sell and deliver items which are likely to sell for a profit.

[checkoutmydeals]

great post. my question is where do you find these deals? its hard for me to find deals. where do you guys sell the cards at? ebay? fb? ig?1

Any venue has advantages and disadvantages, depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Some basic ways to trade profitably:


* Arbitrage (buy in one market, sell in a different market) - example, buy at a show, sell on eBay, or buy on COMC and sell at a show.

* Add value (buy something, improve it, and sell the improved product) - example, buy collections and sell singles, piece together complete sets and sell the sets, break apart sets and sell individually, have cards graded and sell the graded cards).

* Value Investing - (buy wholesale, sell retail)

* Speculation - buy an item for $x with the hope that it might be worth several times $x at some point in the future. As an example, you might buy 10 different rookie prospects. If one hits and goes for 10x what you paid, some sell for break even, and some sell for a loss, you will make money overall.

One way you can build up some stock when you are a beginner is by finding someone who has more cards than time, and help them to sell their cards. Example, you might help people who are set up at shows, in exchange for some cards at the end of the show. Or you might help a local dealer sort and price cards in exchange for some cards. You might also let it be known that if a dealer picks up a collection, they can keep some cards for themselves, and you will buy the rest of the collection for what they just paid or more. So, if they buy a collection for $100, pull $100 worth of stock for themselves, and you are there to buy the rest for, say $150, they will make a quick profit and you will have some stock to work with.

Another opportunity might be had if you hit up dealers at a show toward the end of the show. One time I bought someone's entire $1 box for 31 cents per card. There were lots of $3 to $6 retail items in there. Another time, I bought a dealer's entire table (minus a small stack of money cards) for $200, even though they paid $150 just to rent the table. Several dealers in town will call me if they pick up a collection and want to flip it quickly. Particularly if it's a Magic the Gathering collection, which is one of my specialties.

You can also hang out in some of the private selling groups on the internet and let it be known that you are the guy who will buy (whatever it is that you specialize in). That could be a certain player, or a certain sport or team or time period, or a certain type of collection.

[sals_cardz]

great post. my question is where do you find these deals? its hard for me to find deals. where do you guys sell the cards at? ebay? fb? ig?1

Any venue has advantages and disadvantages, depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Some basic ways to trade profitably:


* Arbitrage (buy in one market, sell in a different market) - example, buy at a show, sell on eBay, or buy on COMC and sell at a show.

* Add value (buy something, improve it, and sell the improved product) - example, buy collections and sell singles, piece together complete sets and sell the sets, break apart sets and sell individually, have cards graded and sell the graded cards).

* Value Investing - (buy wholesale, sell retail)

* Speculation - buy an item for $x with the hope that it might be worth several times $x at some point in the future. As an example, you might buy 10 different rookie prospects. If one hits and goes for 10x what you paid, some sell for break even, and some sell for a loss, you will make money overall.

One way you can build up some stock when you are a beginner is by finding someone who has more cards than time, and help them to sell their cards. Example, you might help people who are set up at shows, in exchange for some cards at the end of the show. Or you might help a local dealer sort and price cards in exchange for some cards. You might also let it be known that if a dealer picks up a collection, they can keep some cards for themselves, and you will buy the rest of the collection for what they just paid or more. So, if they buy a collection for $100, pull $100 worth of stock for themselves, and you are there to buy the rest for, say $150, they will make a quick profit and you will have some stock to work with.

Another opportunity might be had if you hit up dealers at a show toward the end of the show. One time I bought someone's entire $1 box for 31 cents per card. There were lots of $3 to $6 retail items in there. Another time, I bought a dealer's entire table (minus a small stack of money cards) for $200, even though they paid $150 just to rent the table. Several dealers in town will call me if they pick up a collection and want to flip it quickly. Particularly if it's a Magic the Gathering collection, which is one of my specialties.

You can also hang out in some of the private selling groups on the internet and let it be known that you are the guy who will buy (whatever it is that you specialize in). That could be a certain player, or a certain sport or team or time period, or a certain type of collection.

Thanks for the post appreciate it. I just have a hard time selling on ebay/comc/FB. Haven't tried IG or twitter yet. Great post tho. :)!

[checkoutmydeals]

You don't have to sell anything. Even if you never sell a thing, you can use similar principles to gradually accumulate a nice collection. You might even choose to do something like save $20 a week to buy a single card per year for $1,000.

[frenchquarter]

If you deal in items you wouldn't mind keeping for yourself, it isn't strictly necessary to take losses just to free up cash flow.

As a hypothetical example, suppose you buy 1200 widgets for $1 each. You price them at a 200% markup (that is, $3 each.) Then you sell enough widgets at this price to get your $1200 back (this could take days, months, or years). You have 800 widgets left.

You reprice these widgets for 150% markup. When you sell 160 widgets, you price them at 100% markup. When you sell 160 widgets, you price them at 50% markup. When you sell 160 widgets, you price them at 0% markup. The final 160 widgets you price at 1/2 the price you paid (that is, you are selling for a loss).

The revenue stream will be as follows:
$1200 at 3x
$400 at $2.50 ($1600 total)
$320 at $2 ($1,920 total)
$240 at $1.50 ($2,160 total)
$160 at $1 ($2,320 total)
$80 at 50 cents ($2,400 total)

So, if you were to sell 100% of your items with this price scheme, you would ultimately double, turning $1200 into $2400, ignoring friction such as selling fees and storage fees.

If you refused to sell at a loss, you could take the 160 items and put them in your sock drawer. If so, you would make $80 less in revenue, about 3% of the total revenue.

When I look at my own numbers over a certain period of time, I see that items sold for a loss accounted for 1/800th of my total sales over that time period.

Over that same time period, the gross profit from items which sold for at least 200% markup was over 1,500 TIMES as much as the gross loss from the items which sold for a loss.

Additionally, the average item which sold for a triple sold 62% faster than the average item, and 736% faster than the average item which sold for a loss.

So, while one could recoup some money by selling some items for a loss, it would probably be better to spend time trying to identify which factors make an item likely to sell for triple, and likely to sell faster than the average item.

At some point, the limiting factor isn't the amount of money it takes to buy profitable items, but the amount of time it takes to identify, sell and deliver items which are likely to sell for a profit.

This is an excellent post, and it mirrors the way that I do business. One example is that I recently purchased 170 vintage non sports cards for 40 cents each. I have listed them on eBay at $3 plus shipping. In 2 days, I have sold 34 of them, which covers my initial costs, plus supplies and ebay fees. So now, I still have 136 cards. I will keep them at $3 for several months, and I will probably sell 40-50% of them. Then, I will drop the price to $2.50 each, and more will sell. Then, I may drop them down to $2 each, or I may bundle them together and sell the remainder in a lot at $1 to $1.50 each. My goal is always to make my initial investment back within a couple of months, and then double my investment within a year.

A couple of years ago, I purchased a lot of 900 minor league team sets for $1200. I spent $500 on plastic cases and other supplies, and I listed them at the book price from the Minor League Standard Catalog, along with best offer. Within 3 months, I had recouped my $1700 investment. After another 3 months, I started running sales, with the discount of the sale increasing every couple of months. It has been 2 years, and I have made a net profit of $4000 and I still have 180 sets remaining, which I will probably bundle into several lots at a couple of bucks per set.

I always have a couple of dozen of these long term large quantity items going at the same time, so there is always a nice income stream. Waiting a few months to recover my investment is part of my plan, and waiting a year to double my money is also part of my plan.

Rick