The Ringers' Trade Value Rankings

[tjforce]

Read this and thought I'd post it up here for discussion, Bill Simmons list of best trade values. A note about this list:

"Reminder: THIS IS NOT A PLAYER RANKING LIST. We ranked these 64 players as trade assets only. For instance, LeBron came in 35th. That doesn’t mean LeBron is the NBA’s 35th-best player, just that he’s a 37-year-old star on an expiring contract who’s already played more minutes than anyone except Kareem and the Mailman. Would Miami trade Bam Adebayo to rent LeBron’s 20th season? No. Would Toronto sacrifice Pascal Siakam for him? Probably not. Would Phoenix flip Mikal Bridges for a year of LeBron and hope he re-signs? Now that’s a juicy argument! For 22 years and counting, that’s been the point of the trade value list. Again, THIS IS NOT A PLAYER RANKING LIST."

Here's the list:
The Top 64
Group L: Quality Starters
64. Draymond Green
63. OG Anunoby
62. Deandre Ayton
61. Jarrett Allen
60. Fred VanVleet
59. DeMar DeRozan
58. Domantas Sabonis

Group K: The Upside Gang
57. Tyrese Haliburton
56. Tyrese Maxey
55. Herb Jones
54. Jaren Jackson Jr.
53. RJ Barrett
52. Franz Wagner
51. Josh Giddey

Group J: The Ginobilis (Playoff Guys)
50. Tyler Herro
49. Jordan Poole
48. Desmond Bane
47. Marcus Smart
46. Jalen Brunson
45. Andrew Wiggins
44. Mikal Bridges

Group I: The Westbrooks (Regular-Season Guys)
43. Bradley Beal
42. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
41. Jaden Ivey
40. Dejounte Murray

Group H: “Sorry, He’s Worth More to Us Than to You”
39. Chris Paul
38. Damian Lillard
37. Khris Middleton
36. Jamal Murray
35. LeBron James
34. Donovan Mitchell

Group G: “Too Young, Too Cheap, Too Good … Please Stop Calling Us”
33. LaMelo Ball
32. Jabari Smith Jr.
31. Jalen Green
30. Darius Garland
29. Chet Holmgren
28. Paolo Banchero

Group F: “If You Tell Woj, I’ll Deny It to the Death … but I’m Listening”
27. Zach LaVine
26. Pascal Siakam
25. Rudy Gobert
24. Karl-Anthony Towns
23. Kawhi Leonard
22. Zion Williamson

Group E: “Lemme Save You Some Time: N-O”
21. Brandon Ingram
20. Jrue Holiday
19. Jaylen Brown
18. Bam Adebayo

Group D: True Franchise Guys
17. Trae Young
16. Scottie Barnes
15. Cade Cunningham
14. Paul George
13. Jimmy Butler
12. Anthony Davis
11. Devin Booker

Group C: “We’re Not Trading Him (but Make Us an Offer)”
10. Kevin Durant

Group B: The Untouchables
9. Evan Mobley
8. Anthony Edwards
7. Jayson Tatum
6. Joel Embiid
5. Ja Morant

Group A: Completely and Utterly Untouchable
4. Steph Curry
3. Nikola Jokic
2. Luka Doncic
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo


Have at it.

[adam711]

I think Durant is too high. Atlanta says no to Trae for KD, for example. It’s a pretty well thought out list though, the podcast with Russillo discussing the choices is good.

[regularp]

I think Durant is too high. Atlanta says no to Trae for KD, for example. It’s a pretty well thought out list though, the podcast with Russillo discussing the choices is good.

I hope you're related to Trae. https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/heh.png

[regularp]

It starts out strong at the top then gets erratic the further along you go, which is what I expect from Simmons.

The notable outliers who are too high are:

Paul George
Bam Adebayo
Jrue Holiday
Rudy Gobert

Tatum's too high as well and definitely should not be 12 spots higher than Brown after what we witnessed in the playoffs.

I'm a Lakers fan and think AD is too high. There's legit concerns about his injury history and motivation right now.

Trae's too high, imo, because his defense is so ridiculously awful. Atlanta has to scheme their entire strategy around hiding/covering for him at that end of the court.

Of guys still on rookie contracts, Mobley's too high. He hasn't shown enough offensively to justify that big of a gap between him and everybody else.

Even with the injury concerns, Zion's way too low. NOBODY in that age group has shown anything close to his offensive dominance.

If he's gonna rank a bunch of guys who just got drafted on here, Ivey's way too low. He could be the best player in this draft.

[Ericc5Bears]

Maxey and Haliburton are both wayyyy too low, there are guys 3-4 tiers higher than them that I wouldn't trade either of them for.

[Ericc5Bears]

Hold up, they put 32 YEAR OLD JRUE HOLIDAY an entire tier higher than 31 YEAR OLD KAWHI LEONARD, that is actual insanity.

[dunkindutchmen]

I think Durant is too high. Atlanta says no to Trae for KD, for example. It’s a pretty well thought out list though, the podcast with Russillo discussing the choices is good.

IDK, does Atlanta want a legit chance to win the title the next 3 seasons or have more guaranteed regular season ticket sales in 2026-2032 with Trae?

[Kobefan]

IDK, does Atlanta want a legit chance to win the title the next 3 seasons or have more guaranteed regular season ticket sales in 2026-2032 with Trae?

With KD, there's still no legit chance of winning a title. Atlanta doesn't have a 2nd star to play with.

[thenwhatjk]

Man I used to love that column back in the day

[Clyde725]

Would Miami trade Bam Adebayo to rent LeBron’s 20th season? No.

They wouldn't? Maybe not-- I think they would have to think about it if it was offered. It's hard for me to imagine the Lakers trading LeBron for Bam, though, under any scenario.

So what's the point of this again?

[TSonn]

They wouldn't? Maybe not-- I think they would have to think about it if it was offered. It's hard for me to imagine the Lakers trading LeBron for Bam, though, under any scenario.

So what's the point of this again?

It's a thought experiment featuring the sport of basketball from a guy who loves it more than most people.

It was a fun listen - I could listen to Bill and Ryen shoot the #@#@#@#@ about the NBA for hours. Especially love it when they drop some insider knowledge.

[yiguiri2002]

I'm normally used to Simmons criminally overrating his Celtics (because most GMs wouldn't trade Smart for Haliburton or Maxey you know) but some of these are kinda mind boggling.

- LaMelo makes the All-Star team and it's below Jalen Green because...he played OK for two months?
- Jarrett Allen is a top 10 center, young and on a decent contract. But he's under other guys who are clearly not as good as him right now and make more. What?
- The Ginobili groups is simply bad (not the players but their standing)
- I can't see an scenario where teams that have 7 to 11 get a call from the Lakers offering LeBron and a future late 1st for their guy and they pass

[adam711]

I hope you're related to Trae. https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/heh.png

I don’t think Trae is a better player, but he’s a 23 year old, extremely popular all star player. His value is higher for the franchise than Durant who will be 34 as the season starts with likely 1-3 years left of all-nba level play. It’s who has the higher trade value, not who’s the better player.

[Ericc5Bears]

I'm normally used to Simmons criminally overrating his Celtics (because most GMs wouldn't trade Smart for Haliburton or Maxey you know) but some of these are kinda mind boggling.

- LaMelo makes the All-Star team and it's below Jalen Green because...he played OK for two months?
- Jarrett Allen is a top 10 center, young and on a decent contract. But he's under other guys who are clearly not as good as him right now and make more. What?
- The Ginobili groups is simply bad (not the players but their standing)
- I can't see an scenario where teams that have 7 to 11 get a call from the Lakers offering LeBron and a future late 1st for their guy and they pass

They wouldn't just pass, they'd start hysterically laughing at Pelinka for even offering that.

[dunkindutchmen]

With KD, there's still no legit chance of winning a title. Atlanta doesn't have a 2nd star to play with.

Riiiight, that's why he nearly beat the champion Bucks by himself. Kyrie injured, Harden hobbled significantly.

And the Hawks have D. Murray, who was an All Star.

[sethc1020]

AD, PG, Cade & Barnes as "True Franchise Guys" is laughable at this point. AD can't stay healthy, PG is good but come on, Cade is too young and hasn't shown enough to be there, Same with Barnes.

Group E as "N-O"? I think literally everyone on that list could easily be traded for the right price.

Ayton as just a "Quality Starter" is way too low. I think he could flourish in the right system.

Evan Mobley I really like but should he really be in the "Untouchable" category??

Zion now that he is signed, needs to be moved up the list (as long as he stays healthy for a full season) and should be in the "True Franchise Guys" if not higher (if he stays healthy)

[Dame]

Garland continues to be underrated. He does not belong in that group...at all.


The difference between Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham is really interesting. Give it a couple of years but I think Jalen is in a greater position to succeed and legitimately carry that franchise player tag because of Houston's position (Draft capital, Massive cap space and with the Rockets ability to attract top FA unlike the Pistons)


I feel like the ship has sailed on Paul George and AD as well. They both belong in Group F.


Zion and Jaylen Brown need to switch places.

[bjho852]

Why is Gobert in group F when he literally got traded not long ago?

[Kobefan]

I don’t think Trae is a better player, but he’s a 23 year old, extremely popular all star player. His value is higher for the franchise than Durant who will be 34 as the season starts with likely 1-3 years left of all-nba level play. It’s who has the higher trade value, not who’s the better player.

Plus, he's one of the few stars who should be labelled as flight risk, just like Harden. Basically, I don't think teams should trade away young stars for KD, unless they are looking to win a title immediately.

[kingb22]

LaMelo at 33 seems a bit crazy
While I argued for Cade in the "LaMelo vs Cade" debate, at worst it's a coin flip. Maybe Simmons has a bunch of LaMelo redemptions in the pipeline?

All of group E save Bam is a bit bonkers too. There's at least 10 behind that group who are no brainer trades even up.

The NBA guys love Mobley so I kind of get that ... "the next KD", "Most nature big man game in x years" but let's average 22-10 or so before you make him untouchable.

[Uncbuddha]

It's a thought experiment featuring the sport of basketball from a guy who loves it more than most people.

It was a fun listen - I could listen to Bill and Ryen shoot the #@#@#@#@ about the NBA for hours. Especially love it when they drop some insider knowledge.

Love listening to those two talk basketball as well. Sad that the Monday morning Simmons and Rusillo will be on hiatus until the season starts back up.

As big of a card fan as Simmons is I am sure he has to be on this forum.

[tjforce]

AD, PG, Cade & Barnes as "True Franchise Guys" is laughable at this point. AD can't stay healthy, PG is good but come on, Cade is too young and hasn't shown enough to be there, Same with Barnes.

Group E as "N-O"? I think literally everyone on that list could easily be traded for the right price.

Ayton as just a "Quality Starter" is way too low. I think he could flourish in the right system.

Evan Mobley I really like but should he really be in the "Untouchable" category??

Zion now that he is signed, needs to be moved up the list (as long as he stays healthy for a full season) and should be in the "True Franchise Guys" if not higher (if he stays healthy)

Garland continues to be underrated. He does not belong in that group...at all.


The difference between Jalen Green and Cade Cunningham is really interesting. Give it a couple of years but I think Jalen is in a greater position to succeed and legitimately carry that franchise player tag because of Houston's position (Draft capital, Massive cap space and with the Rockets ability to attract top FA unlike the Pistons)


I feel like the ship has sailed on Paul George and AD as well. They both belong in Group F.


Zion and Jaylen Brown need to switch places.

As someone who pays more attention to the Cavs than pretty much anyone around (and was right a year ago on Garland and Mobley), I'd move:

Garland from group G to group E

and

Mobley from B to D.

What Mobley has is 8 years of team control, 3 more of them being very affordable. What Garland has is an All Star selection at age 21.

I'll also put LaMelo in group E, even though I don't rate him as high as some do.... I just couldn't see why Charlotte would move him.

[The Accountant]

I like the concept. But Bill Simmons is a biased dude. In the playoffs he would spend 5 min on every game then have an entire part dedicated to the C’s. Stopped caring about his opinion a while ago

[brothertona]

How is Dejounte a Westbrook?

[colbycolbycolby]

OG shoutout. Hope he gets moved from Toronto soon.

[yiguiri2002]

As someone who pays more attention to the Cavs than pretty much anyone around (and was right a year ago on Garland and Mobley), I'd move:

Garland from group G to group E

and

Mobley from B to D.

What Mobley has is 8 years of team control, 3 more of them being very affordable. What Garland has is an All Star selection at age 21.

I'll also put LaMelo in group E, even though I don't rate him as high as some do.... I just couldn't see why Charlotte would move him.

If the Hornets called the Cavs offering Melo for Garland, do the Cavs say no? I think it's close but I think most teams would take Melo.

[asujbl]

If the Hornets called the Cavs offering Melo for Garland, do the Cavs say no? I think it's close but I think most teams would take Melo.

They absolutely say no based on the Simmons criteria specifically... now if his points didn't matter? I can certainly see the argument that Ball has higher upside (although it's razor thin margin if you really watch a healthy Garland)

A - They aren't breaking up Garland/Allen/Mobley on the very small differential (if there is one) between Ball and Garland

B - More importantly is the "happiness matters more than ever" criteria that he uses. Ball doesn't want to be in Cleveland. It's not his personality... and that's not an insult... I actually like Ball. Garland wants to be there

Ball wouldn't thrive in Cleveland

[Brobocop]

They absolutely say no based on the Simmons criteria specifically... now if his points didn't matter? I can certainly see the argument that Ball has higher upside (although it's razor thin margin if you really watch a healthy Garland)

A - They aren't breaking up Garland/Allen/Mobley on the very small differential (if there is one) between Ball and Garland

B - More importantly is the "happiness matters more than ever" criteria that he uses. Ball doesn't want to be in Cleveland. It's not his personality... and that's not an insult... I actually like Ball. Garland wants to be there

Ball wouldn't thrive in Cleveland

Yeah, looking at the list on its own would lead to some head scratchers, but in the context of the podcast, a lot of his choices make sense.

[tjforce]

If the Hornets called the Cavs offering Melo for Garland, do the Cavs say no? I think it's close but I think most teams would take Melo.

They absolutely say no based on the Simmons criteria specifically... now if his points didn't matter? I can certainly see the argument that Ball has higher upside (although it's razor thin margin if you really watch a healthy Garland)

A - They aren't breaking up Garland/Allen/Mobley on the very small differential (if there is one) between Ball and Garland

B - More importantly is the "happiness matters more than ever" criteria that he uses. Ball doesn't want to be in Cleveland. It's not his personality... and that's not an insult... I actually like Ball. Garland wants to be there

Ball wouldn't thrive in Cleveland

I think the Cavs say 'No' based on this criteria, but I also think the Hornets say 'No' to this trade as well. They've bother already invested in/tried to build around these guys and there would be too much risk of blowing up chemistry.

Which is why I have them both in group 'E'.

[Zedlaw]

They absolutely say no based on the Simmons criteria specifically... now if his points didn't matter? I can certainly see the argument that Ball has higher upside (although it's razor thin margin if you really watch a healthy Garland)

A - They aren't breaking up Garland/Allen/Mobley on the very small differential (if there is one) between Ball and Garland

B - More importantly is the "happiness matters more than ever" criteria that he uses. Ball doesn't want to be in Cleveland. It's not his personality... and that's not an insult... I actually like Ball. Garland wants to be there

Ball wouldn't thrive in Cleveland

I agree, I don't see much separation from these two. Team harmony wins out

[Zedlaw]

I think the Cavs say 'No' based on this criteria, but I also think the Hornets say 'No' to this trade as well. They've bother already invested in/tried to build around these guys and there would be too much risk of blowing up chemistry.

Which is why I have them both in group 'E'.

E is the hardest group to rank. Good but not great guys who are close to their ceilings. I'd want Jrue as my number two over both Garland and Lamelo next season. But in two years? Give me the young guys. How do you rank that? Every team situation will have different orders to this list. Simmons always comes from a, can I drop this guy into a playoff game now, place, with salary and youth factoring in later.

[asujbl]

I think the Cavs say 'No' based on this criteria, but I also think the Hornets say 'No' to this trade as well. They've bother already invested in/tried to build around these guys and there would be too much risk of blowing up chemistry.

Which is why I have them both in group 'E'.

This

While I understand the concept of the Simmons column, and I’ve always enjoyed it, there is too much nuance

I think both teams say no

So the ranking is just kind of a group and not a rank

[yiguiri2002]

I agree, I think Melo and Garland should be in the same group. You guys have Garland higher, I think Melo is more valuable (cheaper contract and age).

I still take both of them over Ingram though.

[tjforce]

I agree, I think Melo and Garland should be in the same group. You guys have Garland higher, I think Melo is more valuable (cheaper contract and age).

I still take both of them over Ingram though.

I have them in the same group, E. Which order they are in is irrelevant to me. I think each team would argue that their guy is more important to it's own growth.

Both good for their teams and good for the league.

[regularp]

I don’t think Trae is a better player, but he’s a 23 year old, extremely popular all star player. His value is higher for the franchise than Durant who will be 34 as the season starts with likely 1-3 years left of all-nba level play. It’s who has the higher trade value, not who’s the better player.

Trae is incredibly unlikely to ever be the #1 option on a title contending team. That alone makes KD more valuable right now, even with limited time remaining in his prime.

[Zedlaw]

Trae Young was a step (on a refs foot) away from playing in the Finals two years ago. The way injuries are happening, I think we need to expand our definition of title contenders

[regularp]

Trae Young was a step (on a refs foot) away from playing in the Finals two years ago. The way injuries are happening, I think we need to expand our definition of title contenders

Fluke run like the Blazers in 2019. The Hawks are a LONG way from competing for a title.

Fun fact: Trae Young shot 32%/18% in the postseason this year. :)!

[Nomad]

The way injuries are happening, I think we need to expand our definition of title contenders

Pacers?

[msink28]

Kawhi at 21 is just silly.

[gresh87]

Love listening to those two talk basketball as well. Sad that the Monday morning Simmons and Rusillo will be on hiatus until the season starts back up.

As big of a card fan as Simmons is I am sure he has to be on this forum.

Same here! I listen to a ton of Ringer pods.