Sarver Suspended 1 year, $10M Fine

[Asian62150]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34584665/phoenix-suns-owner-robert-sarver-suspended-year-fined-10-million-investigation-finds-conduct-clearly-violated-workplace-standards

NBA missed on this one.

If Sterling gets a lifetime ban, Sarver shouldn't only get 1 year and a fine.

[majestik101]

When is the suspension for Anthony Edwards coming?

[AbraCalabro]

The guy is an all-around moron, hope they tag him for more.

[Dame]

Recorded audio was the nail in the coffin for Sterling, iirc.

Suns employees had none.

[Italy61587]

How do you suspend an owner???

[jcardstore]

So let me just start out by saying I think Sarver should be forced to sell.

That being said I think this is worthy of some more nuanced discussion.

Sterling had an absolute mountain of indisputable evidence against him and was just an all around terrible guy.

I also think that there is a big difference in being outwardly racist and repeating what someone else said. Clearly, both are wrong and unacceptable but I think one is worse for obvious reasons.

[Siberian13]

Rumor is Anthony Edwards is going to get a 2 year suspension and $20 million fine. NBA doesn’t play around with this kind of thing.

[imbluestreak23]

Thought this was a dead story last year. Once it hit SASs airwaves and he voiced that he didn't think he should be fired, figured it was all woke smoke.

Guess there was actual real smoke eh?

[sportzluvr1]

Not enough for the circling wolves. There will be big pressure to force him to sell.

[TheFrenzy]

This is the first story I've read where the publication censors the word but includes the last letter so that you know whether he's saying "-a" or "-r".

[asujbl]

So let me just start out by saying I think Sarver should be forced to sell.

That being said I think this is worthy of some more nuanced discussion.

Sterling had an absolute mountain of indisputable evidence against him and was just an all around terrible guy.

I also think that there is a big difference in being outwardly racist and repeating what someone else said. Clearly, both are wrong and unacceptable but I think one is worse for obvious reasons.

What the hell website do you think this is? Nuanced

Classic

[spurs50fan]

If you didn't realize the guy was a turd before this, you weren't paying attention :(

[Siberian13]

Seems like this guy got off easy. Privileged

[Siberian13]

Lebron wants Sarver and Ant Man out of the league. Good to see him stand up for equality. Bravo


“Read through the Sarver stories a few times now. I gotta be honest…Our league definitely got this wrong. I don’t need to explain why. Y’all read the stories and decide for yourself. I said it before and I’m gonna say it again, there is no place in this league for that kind behavior. I love this league and I deeply respect our leadership. But this isn’t right. There is no place for misogyny, sexism, and racism in any work place. Don’t matter if you own the team or play for the team. We hold our league up as an example of our values and this aint it.

- Bron Bron

[AbraCalabro]

Lebron wants Sarver and Ant Man out of the league. Good to see him stand up for equality. Bravo


“Read through the Sarver stories a few times now. I gotta be honest…Our league definitely got this wrong. I don’t need to explain why. Y’all read the stories and decide for yourself. I said it before and I’m gonna say it again, there is no place in this league for that kind behavior. I love this league and I deeply respect our leadership. But this isn’t right. There is no place for misogyny, sexism, and racism in any work place. Don’t matter if you own the team or play for the team. We hold our league up as an example of our values and this aint it.

- Bron Bron

Did he actually post that? Asking because I don't get on social media.

[Siberian13]

Did he actually post that? Asking because I don't get on social media.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34593743/after-robert-sarver-investigation-lebron-james-adamant-nba-definitely-got-wrong

[AbraCalabro]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34593743/after-robert-sarver-investigation-lebron-james-adamant-nba-definitely-got-wrong

Ah, okay, thank you.

The size of LeBron's cognitive dissonance is about that of the sun.

[clocsta2323]

I'm surprised they didn't steal his team away from him and give five 20% ownership stakes of it to LeBron, and four other minority ballers of Silver's choosing. I literally wouldn't have batted an eye.

[clocsta2323]

I actually applaud Silver for having the balls and prudence to say HEY FELLAS WE CAN'T STEAL PEOPLE'S TEAMS FROM THEM WHENEVER THEY F UP.

[AbraCalabro]

I actually applaud Silver for having the balls and prudence to say HEY FELLAS WE CAN'T STEAL PEOPLE'S TEAMS FROM THEM WHENEVER THEY F UP.

Don't be surprised if he does a 180...actually, by your previous post, I guess you wouldn't be surprised. I think Silver is the same guy that said they weren't going to be doing the politics crap and then they went right back to politics. I don't know which major league is worse, but all of them are in a ratings decline.

[NeedChapmans]

Lebron wants Sarver and Ant Man out of the league. Good to see him stand up for equality. Bravo


“Read through the Sarver stories a few times now. I gotta be honest…Our league definitely got this wrong. I don’t need to explain why. Y’all read the stories and decide for yourself. I said it before and I’m gonna say it again, there is no place in this league for that kind behavior. I love this league and I deeply respect our leadership. But this isn’t right. There is no place for misogyny, sexism, and racism in any work place. Don’t matter if you own the team or play for the team. We hold our league up as an example of our values and this aint it.

- Bron Bron

LOL, "I don't need to explain why"

Love it.

[Noles939913]

Lebron wants Sarver and Ant Man out of the league. Good to see him stand up for equality. Bravo


“Read through the Sarver stories a few times now. I gotta be honest…Our league definitely got this wrong. I don’t need to explain why. Y’all read the stories and decide for yourself. I said it before and I’m gonna say it again, there is no place in this league for that kind behavior. I love this league and I deeply respect our leadership. But this isn’t right. There is no place for misogyny, sexism, and racism in any work place. Don’t matter if you own the team or play for the team. We hold our league up as an example of our values and this aint it.

- Bron Bron

Did Bron Bron ever have to apologize for this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EziWm2EVIAA5yW4.jpg:large

[AbraCalabro]

Did Bron Bron ever have to apologize for this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EziWm2EVIAA5yW4.jpg:large

Is this the officer that saved one girl from being stabbed to death by another?

[Noles939913]

Is this the officer that saved one girl from being stabbed to death by another?

Yes. Both of them were black as well but Bron Bron never misses a chance to try his best to fight for social justice.

[AbraCalabro]

Yes. Both of them were black as well but Bron Bron never misses a chance to try his best to fight for social justice.

Got it, yeah I had heard about that and was amazed at how much of an idiot LeBron could be.

[Dodgerfan74]

"We hold our league up as an example of our values and this aint it"
lol

[imbluestreak23]

KANG SPEAK!

[ninjacookies]

It is odd how Sterling was booted for life and essentially forced to sell, while Sarvs received what essentially is a slap on the wrist. Also doubly weird because Sarvs has been vocally outspoken against China, which doesn't play well into the Silver narrative.

Dude must be sitting on some serious dirt on his Blackberry.

[packman80]

Funny how players are up in arms over this but not one is saying anything about Anthony Edwards anti-gay comments. Was a headline for one day then gone away.

[jcardstore]

Of course the usual suspects derailing another thread... what else is new.

NBA owners don't really "own" anything anyways. Almost 100% of their asset value is derived from the branding, distribution, and negotiating power provided by the league. Without that they have nothing.

They are franchisees, not independent owners so they can't just do whatever they want.

If this was any publicly traded company he would have been out already.

[packman80]

Of course the usual suspects derailing another thread... what else is new.

NBA owners don't really "own" anything anyways. Almost 100% of their asset value is derived from the branding, distribution, and negotiating power provided by the league. Without that they have nothing.

They are franchisees, not independent owners so they can't just do whatever they want.

If this was any publicly traded company he would have been out already.

Same thing with a player. If Anthony Edwards made those comments as regular worker he would have been fired the next day. But since he's a player all they can do is fine him and he gets to continue his career. Players should not be treated different from owners. We can't say well he should have lost his team for saying something racist and then a player says something racist or bigoted and they just get a fine. If you want to take a owner's team away then if a player does something simliar they should have their career taken away.

[Noles939913]

Of course the usual suspects derailing another thread... what else is new.

NBA owners don't really "own" anything anyways. Almost 100% of their asset value is derived from the branding, distribution, and negotiating power provided by the league. Without that they have nothing.

They are franchisees, not independent owners so they can't just do whatever they want.

If this was any publicly traded company he would have been out already.

Who is actually arguing this?

[jcardstore]

Same thing with a player. If Anthony Edwards made those comments as regular worker he would have been fired the next day. But since he's a player all they can do is fine him and he gets to continue his career. Players should not be treated different from owners. We can't say well he should have lost his team for saying something racist and then a player says something racist or bigoted and they just get a fine. If you want to take a owner's team away then if a player does something simliar they should have their career taken away.

I mean, we can look at both situations and see they are clearly different, not even in the same universe.

You're essentially saying that a jaywalker and a murder should both be treated the same because "they both broke the law" but everyone knows this makes no sense.

The world is not black and white. Sarver has shown a pattern of abuse and misconduct over DECADES.

Edwards is a young kid who said something dumb but otherwise hasn't shown this to be a pattern of behavior.

Not to mention owners absolutely should be held to a higher standard.

[jcardstore]

Who is actually arguing this?

Well this gem of a comment is a good place to start

I actually applaud Silver for having the balls and prudence to say HEY FELLAS WE CAN'T STEAL PEOPLE'S TEAMS FROM THEM WHENEVER THEY F UP.

[NeedChapmans]

I mean, we can look at both situations and see they are clearly different, not even in the same universe.

You're essentially saying that a jaywalker and a murder should both be treated the same because "they both broke the law" but everyone knows this makes no sense.

The world is not black and white. Sarver has shown a pattern of abuse and misconduct over DECADES.

Edwards is a young kid who said something dumb but otherwise hasn't shown this to be a pattern of behavior.

Not to mention owners absolutely should be held to a higher standard.

Would you be so kind as to tell me the worst thing Sarver did here? It's quite a contrast you paint above and I'd like to know, as you see it, the single act that Sarver committed that was most egregious.

[jcardstore]

Would you be so kind as to tell me the worst thing Sarver did here? It's quite a contrast you paint above and I'd like to know, as you see it, the single act that Sarver committed that was most egregious.

Why should we take away from the gravity by boiling it down to a single event? (rhetorical I know why you're asking) Like I said before it was a decade+ of abuse and misconduct corroborated by hundreds of people.

This conduct is not acceptable, and when you have 18 years worth of it, you need to be out. Simple as that

Among other things, the investigation found instances of racial insensitivity, mistreatment of female employees, inappropriate commentary related to sex or sexual orientation, and disrespectful communications.

Any public company and this guy would have been out a long time ago but the NBA has proven again it only really cares when it's convenient.

[jcardstore]

I'll even change the analogy.

Should someone with a single DUI be treated the same as someone getting their 10th DUI?

[Noles939913]

Well this gem of a comment is a good place to start

That’s his opinion. Everyone already knows the NBA can force you to sell your team which is the point you were seemingly trying to make.

[NeedChapmans]

Why should we take away from the gravity by boiling it down to a single event? (rhetorical I know why you're asking) Like I said before it was a decade+ of abuse and misconduct corroborated by hundreds of people.

This conduct is not acceptable, and when you have 18 years worth of it, you need to be out. Simple as that

Any public company and this guy would have been out a long time ago but the NBA has proven again it only really cares when it's convenient.

I am unaware of a single thing Sarver said or did. And I want to be made aware; but the quote you show says nothing. Generalizations speak more to the person who wrote them than who they were written about and I think it's unfair to crucify someon without knowing what they're being crucified for.

(Certainly not equating his actions to murder).

[Asian62150]

I'll even change the analogy.

Should someone with a single DUI be treated the same as someone getting their 10th DUI?

Better analogy :)!

Ant is a 21-year old who made a one time mistake and apologized for it right away.

Sarver is a 60-year old who has shown and a pattern of this kind of behavior over decades. And when he was initially caught, he said the journalist was lying and nothing like that ever happened. Only after there was an investigation did he apologize. But even then, he fought the punishment. You can say Ant's apology was scripted (maybe it was) but Sarver showed less remorse.

Both are wrong but there's a big difference between the two.

[jcardstore]

Better analogy :)!

Ant is a 21-year old who made a one time mistake and apologized for it right away.

Sarver is a 60-year old who has shown and a pattern of this kind of behavior over decades. And when he was initially caught, he said the journalist was lying and nothing like that ever happened. Only after there was an investigation did he apologize. But even then, he fought the punishment. You can say Ant's apology was scripted (maybe it was) but Sarver showed less remorse.

Both are wrong but there's a big difference between the two.

We 100% agree.

I believe that (whether Ant's apology was real or not) he deserves a chance at redemption. People will forget anyways but saying he should lose his job is insane.

Sarver should absolutely lose his job, though.

[jcardstore]

I am unaware of a single thing Sarver said or did. And I want to be made aware; but the quote you show says nothing. Generalizations speak more to the person who wrote them than who they were written about and I think it's unfair to crucify someon without knowing what they're being crucified for.

(Certainly not equating his actions to murder).

If you really wanted to be made aware, you would have gone and looked for yourself. We both know that's not the case here.

[NeedChapmans]

If you really wanted to be made aware, you would have gone and looked for yourself. We both know that's not the case here.

I have gone and looked and can find nothing. Thus I'm not saying much as to whether or not Sarver's punishment seems reasonable.

You, on the other hand have a pretty strong stance on it and I'm asking to learn more here but you seem unwilling to share and/or don't know yourself. Do you know the things Sarver has said and done or do you not know?

[jcardstore]

I have gone and looked and can find nothing. Thus I'm not saying much as to whether or not Sarver's punishment seems reasonable.

You, on the other hand have a pretty strong stance on it and I'm asking to learn more here but you seem unwilling to share and/or don't know yourself. Do you know the things Sarver has said and done or do you not know?

You could have taken 30 seconds on google and looked for yourself if you really wanted to learn more.

https://theathletic.com/3591534/2022/09/13/nba-robert-sarver-questions-explained/?redirected=1

https://arizonasports.com/story/3296731/key-points-full-robert-sarver-investigation-report/

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32440987/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-allegations-racism-misogyny

[NeedChapmans]

I have gone and looked and can find nothing. Thus I'm not saying much as to whether or not Sarver's punishment seems reasonable.

You, on the other hand have a pretty strong stance on it and I'm asking to learn more here but you seem unwilling to share and/or don't know yourself. Do you know the things Sarver has said and done or do you not know?

To be clear, the best report I can find is this one that outlines about a half dozen specific incidents (https://theathletic.com/3591534/2022/09/13/nba-robert-sarver-questions-explained/) that were cited in the report.

I presume these are the worst of what the NBA found because these are the ones that are highlighted in this article and I can find nothing else on the matter. And unless you would like to call out something specific, half of what I see sounds a bit ridiculous (like being accused of yelling at your employees) and half of what I see can be described simply as "rude".

[NeedChapmans]

You could have taken 30 seconds on google and looked for yourself if you really wanted to learn more.

https://theathletic.com/3591534/2022/09/13/nba-robert-sarver-questions-explained/?redirected=1

https://arizonasports.com/story/3296731/key-points-full-robert-sarver-investigation-report/

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/32440987/phoenix-suns-robert-sarver-allegations-racism-misogyny

I've read them. There's nothing here that would suggest a year suspension or $10M fine is warranted. If this is the crux of what Sarver is accused of doing and saying, then it feels more like a punishment to fit the investigation rather than the "crime".

[jcardstore]

This is acceptable workplace behavior? You're right, these suggest that he should be removed from his position entirely. Literally any other executive would have been fired

The report outlines six times when Sarver made vulgar or sexual jokes to employees. It found he sent around pornographic material to male Suns executives, including a video and photos of a naked woman.

More than 50 employees said Sarver yelled or cursed at employees as a way to manage them, including in a way that would be considered bullying under the Suns workplace policy, according to the report. Sarver denied yelling at employees to investigators but admitted he may have “raised his voice” after they gave him specific examples.

Sarver commented about the “sex lives, bodies, and sexual orientation” of players, including at least once about a player’s partner. “In another instance, when the Suns were recruiting a free agent in 2015, Sarver made a joke that the team should have players impregnate local Phoenix strippers so they would feel connected to the area, giving the Suns a potential edge in free agency recruitment.

On several instances, the report found that Sarver made demeaning or inappropriate comments about women in the Suns organization, including about the bodies and attractiveness of Suns dancers.

In 2011, a week after he screamed at a female employee because he was unhappy with a video she had produced, causing her to cry, Sarver entered her office and closed the door and “said in substance, ‘Why can’t we get along? What’s wrong with you?’ When the female employee began to cry, Sarver then said in a raised voice, ‘Why do all the women around here cry so much?'”

The investigation found that Sarver “engaged in inequitable and demeaning conduct toward female employees, including bullying.” He told one pregnant female employee in 2008 that she could not continue in her role coordinating an event because when the event was to occur she would have already given birth. “Witnesses recalled Sarver saying, in substance, that the employee could not perform the assignment because she would be “breastfeeding” and her “baby needs their mom, not their father,”

[NeedChapmans]

This is acceptable workplace behavior? You're right, these suggest that he should be removed from his position entirely. Literally any other executive would have been fired

Acceptable, no. Rude and juvenile, yes.

See this is the thing. I find the actions of Sarver to be largely juvenile and dumb ... zero to do with race, zero to do with harrassment. This is my generalization and if I were the one writing these reports, I would have trouble from not laughing at a lot of them.

His recount of what others have said is not a thing. His firing of a black coach during contract negotiations is not a thing. And to your initial analogy; what Edwards said and did was hateful and to me, that is worse than anything Sarver is being accused of doing here.

[jcardstore]

Acceptable, no. Rude and juvenile, yes.

See this is the thing. I find the actions of Sarver to be largely juvenile and dumb ... zero to do with race, zero to do with harrassment. This is my generalization and if I were the one writing these reports, I would have trouble from not laughing at a lot of them.

His recount of what others have said is not a thing. His firing of a black coach during contract negotiations is not a thing. And to your initial analogy; what Edwards said and did was hateful and to me, that is worse than anything Sarver is being accused of doing here.

You're on another planet dude. Stuck in 1980

The fact that you think someone can conduct business in this way and keep their job and it's all good is insane. On top of that saying what AE did was WORSE??

[NeedChapmans]

This is acceptable workplace behavior? You're right, these suggest that he should be removed from his position entirely. Literally any other executive would have been fired

Yea, sure. Remind me, what was the result of the exploside Dallas Mavericks investigation from 2018? Domestic violence, sexual harrasment etc. etc?

How long was Mark Cuban's suspension again?

[jcardstore]

Yea, sure. Remind me, what was the result of the exploside Dallas Mavericks investigation from 2018? Domestic violence, sexual harrasment etc. etc?

How long was Mark Cuban's suspension again?

Remind me what Cuban was accused of again?

[NeedChapmans]

You're on another planet dude. Stuck in 1980

The fact that you think someone can conduct business in this way and keep their job and it's all good is insane. On top of that saying what AE did was WORSE??

What an amazing year 1980 was. But you're changing the game here. I would not employ someone who made the remarks at my company ... but I also would not equate them to anything more than rudeness.

And yes, unless you can show me an instance where Sarver's intent was that of hate or racism; what AE did was worse than anything Sarver did.

[NeedChapmans]

Remind me what Cuban was accused of again?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-mavericks-investigation-details-sexual-misconduct-owner-mark-cuban-to-donate-10-million/

The investigation also substantiated improper workplace conduct by former Mavericks ticket sales employee Chris Hyde, including inappropriate sexual comments, viewing pornography at the office, unwanted sexual advances and violent and threatening outbursts towards co-workers. It also confirmed an incident in which a used condom fell out of his pants leg at the office in 2011.

While the report found Cuban did not know about the majority of Hyde's misconduct, it said he was notified of several problematic incidents, and Ussery forwarded a video of the condom incident to Cuban. According to the report, Cuban replied, "Don't make a bigger issue out of it than it is."

Amazing the double standard here.

[jcardstore]

What an amazing year 1980 was. But you're changing the game here. I would not employ someone who made the remarks at my company ... but I also would not equate them to anything more than rudeness.

And yes, unless you can show me an instance where Sarver's intent was that of hate or racism; what AE did was worse than anything Sarver did.

Would you retain an employee who behaved in this way over the period of 18 years, yes or no.

[NeedChapmans]

Would you retain an employee who behaved in this way over the period of 18 years, yes or no.

An employee at my company would never be allowed to be around for 18 years with that kind of behavior. That said, in my work experience, having worked for a lot of different owners over the decades ... based on what Sarver has said and done, he likely would have been one of the best owners to work for.

[NeedChapmans]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dallas-mavericks-investigation-details-sexual-misconduct-owner-mark-cuban-to-donate-10-million/

The investigation also substantiated improper workplace conduct by former Mavericks ticket sales employee Chris Hyde, including inappropriate sexual comments, viewing pornography at the office, unwanted sexual advances and violent and threatening outbursts towards co-workers. It also confirmed an incident in which a used condom fell out of his pants leg at the office in 2011.

While the report found Cuban did not know about the majority of Hyde's misconduct, it said he was notified of several problematic incidents, and Ussery forwarded a video of the condom incident to Cuban. According to the report, Cuban replied, "Don't make a bigger issue out of it than it is."

Amazing the double standard here.

"The female co-worker, who was Sneed's girlfriend in 2014, said Sneed pulled her out of a car, pinned her down and pressed on her face, resulting in bruises, scratches and knots under her eye and chin. Cuban was also informed of this incident, but he said he didn't want to fire Sneed, according to the report. Cuban said Sneed "want[s] to do the right thing" and that "throwing him on the street could lead to problems elsewhere," instead suggesting Sneed complete counseling and be made to agree to a list of rules in order to maintain his job.

The report found Cuban's failure to fire Sneed after the second domestic violence incident to be another "significant error in judgment."

Way to go Mark! Domestic violence for the W.

So let's see, we're gonna suspend the guy a full year for cracking jokes and repeating the accounts of others but knowing and allowing (2x) domestic abusers to stay on the payroll is ho-hum.

[stalemonkey30]

Sarver sounds like a terrible boss to work for, and he may receive some pressure to sell behind the scenes, but I don't see anything warranting a lifetime ban. The owners of the company that I work for honestly behave similarly to this (I'm paid well so I grew thick skin and deal with it).

The Donald Sterling stuff is much worse then any of what has been reported on Sarver. Donald Sterling was actively hurting the leagues reputation and that is why he was forced out.

[jcardstore]

An employee at my company would never be allowed to be around for 18 years with that kind of behavior. That said, in my work experience, having worked for a lot of different owners over the decades ... based on what Sarver has said and done, he likely would have been one of the best owners to work for.

Well there you go. Sarver would have been canned had be been an exec anywhere else. I don't see any reason to allow him to keep the team.

If you want to argue over the semantics of how "hateful" or not it was or the level that defines harassment, fine but all paths lead to the same conclusion.

He is unfit to be running an organization if this is going to be his behavior.

[NeedChapmans]

Well there you go. Sarver would have been canned had be been an exec anywhere else. I don't see any reason to allow him to keep the team.

If you want to argue over the semantics of how "hateful" or not it was or the level that defines harassment, fine but all paths lead to the same conclusion.

He is unfit to be running an organization if this is going to be his behavior.

Not true at all. As I stated above, he'd be a pleasure to work for IMHO if this is him at his worst.

Looking foward to your tear down of Cuban.

[jcardstore]

Not true at all. As I stated above, he'd be a pleasure to work for IMHO if this is him at his worst.

Looking foward to your tear down of Cuban.

God bless. Dying on this hill sure is something... I'm sure all those women really found him an absolute pleasure to work for :coffee:. Nothing else to say

[NeedChapmans]

God bless. Dying on this hill sure is something... Nothing else to say

Alive and well. If there was zero punishment for Mark Cuban for allowing multiple domestic violence abusers to work in his orginization along with all the sexual harrassment and bullying reported ... the punishment for Sarver seems egregious and excessive.

But if you believe that someone should be dispossessed of their assets because of this kind of behavior, then I hope you are never judged/investigated in the same way.

We would all fail the test.

[NeedChapmans]

God bless. Dying on this hill sure is something... I'm sure all those women really found him an absolute pleasure to work for :coffee:. Nothing else to say

Perhaps not on the day of. But it appears that a handful of women had isolated encounters over the course of 18 years, and the offense is a single rude comment inside of a single conversation.

Like I said, if there's more to it than that, OK. But if that's all there is to it, this is nothing about nothing and it pales in comparison to Cuban.

[jcardstore]

Alive and well. If there was zero punishment for Mark Cuban for allowing multiple domestic violence abusers to work in his orginization along with all the sexual harrassment and bullying reported ... the punishment for Sarver seems egregious and excessive.

But if you believe that someone should be dispossessed of their assets because of this kind of behavior, then I hope you are never judged/investigated in the same way.

We would all fail the test.

The NBA is inconsistent in its punishments, what else is new. I said that before anyways. If I say they got the Cuban situation wrong, what does that matter? It doesn't impact the Sarver situation even slightly.

Dude is gonna profit billions of dollars from a sale, cry me a river.

I guess it's just too hard to expect people to be respectful and professional to the people they work with and for. If you want to act like a clown go back to highschool.

[NeedChapmans]

The NBA is inconsistent in it's punishments, what else is new. I said that before anyways. If I say they got the Cuban situation wrong, what does that matter? It doesn't impact the Sarver situation even slightly.

Dude is gonna profit billions of dollars from a sale, cry me a river.

I guess it's just too hard to expect people to be respectful and professional to the people they work with and for. If you want to act like a clown go back to highschool.

I completely agree with your sentiment about being respectful and professional. But I do not agree that Sarver's conduct warrants a lifetime ban (let alone a suspension and $10MM fine). There have to be levels of conduct that warrant such drastic punlishment measures and those levels cannot be reached with rude interactions, jokes and immature nonsense.

Those suggesting the NBA "got it wrong" simply want blood 24/7 for any transgression and they will rue their judgement day if treated the same.

[jcardstore]

I completely agree with your sentiment about being respectful and professional. But I do not agree that Sarver's conduct warrants a lifetime ban (let alone a suspension and $10MM fine). There have to be levels of conduct that warrant such drastic punlishment measures and those levels cannot be reached with rude interactions, jokes and immature nonsense.

Those suggesting the NBA "got it wrong" simply want blood 24/7 for any transgression and they will rue their judgement day if treated the same.

If he were the CEO of Google, do you think this behavior would warrant him being let go?

[oldgoldy97]

Sarver would have been canned at almost any reputable Fortune 500 for those behaviors. Saying less reeks of elitism.

[NeedChapmans]

If he were the CEO of Google, do you think this behavior would warrant him being let go?

You're tripping yourself up on these analogies.

If you're asking me whether or not the owners of Google can fire the CEO for petting a dog, the answer is yes. Employment is at-will in this country and most contracts allow for termination so long as it is for reasons not against Federal law (race, sex, etc).

This is the owner of an asset. The rules and laws are much different and I say again, there needs to be an incredibly high standard to dispossess someone from their asset; otherwise we end up in a country where I can come along and take what you own simply because of MY standards. Robert Sarver telling jokes, speaking to female employees rudely and without thought for their feelings and acting like a high school student in front of of other guys at the office is no where close to that.

[NeedChapmans]

While I disagree w/ Silver's punishment, his statement about going further is 100% accurate IMHO.

We cannot go around taking people's stuff unless the circumstances are extreme.

https://i.ibb.co/1Qsnk1y/Sarver.png

[jcardstore]

You're tripping yourself up on these analogies.

If you're asking me whether or not the owners of Google can fire the CEO for petting a dog, the answer is yes. Employment is at-will in this country and most contracts allow for termination so long as it is for reasons not against Federal law (race, sex, etc).

This is the owner of an asset. The rules and laws are much different and I say again, there needs to be an incredibly high standard to dispossess someone from their asset; otherwise we end up in a country where I can come along and take what you own simply because of MY standards. Robert Sarver telling jokes, speaking to female employees rudely and without thought for their feelings and acting like a high school student in front of of other guys at the office is no where close to that.

The NBA is the real "owner" lets not kid ourselves. Sarver's asset is worthless without the brand. He is a franchisee.

McDonalds, for example, can at will terminate franchise agreements so why can't the NBA do the same?

[NeedChapmans]

The NBA is the real "owner" lets not kid ourselves. Sarver's asset is worthless without the brand. He is a franchisee.

McDonalds, for example, can at will terminate franchise agreements so why can't the NBA do the same?

They can. As I understand it, if 75% of the owners agree to it, they can force a sale. But no owner is going to allow that to happen because their house is likely messier than the Suns house.

This is my point.

[jcardstore]

They can. As I understand it, if 75% of the owners agree to it, they can force a sale. But no owner is going to allow that to happen because their house is likely messier than the Suns house.

This is my point.

Oh of course, I fully understand why nothing will happen because you're right about other orgs having skeletons too.

Forcing him to sell is in none of the owners best interest.

[NeedChapmans]

Oh of course, I fully understand why nothing will happen because you're right about other orgs having skeletons too.

Forcing him to sell is in none of the owners best interest.

It's truly in no ones best interest. The reality is that when you work for someone else, you are held to a standard that is different than the owner. It does not absolve the owner of their behavior but it does provide them more freedoms than employees in the workplace (and I largely agree with that ideal).

To my knowledge, no employee filed a police report, no employee quit, no employee really said or did anything as a result of Sarver's behavior and there's just a lot of revisionism here because of the circumstances.

In 2008, out of college, I worked for a company where the owner had a firing wheel. Anytime we had to let someone go, he would put our names on the wheel and spin it. If it landed on you, you were fired. I think of that wheel often in terms of owner conduct and while at the time, I was praying for it not to land on me ... I laugh at the absurdity today. Is that an offense that should force the owner to sell?

No crimes committed ... keep your piece of (#&*! you worthless (#&!. Life motto.

[thenashcollecto]

Sounds like sarver is not a nice person. When does the Lebron investigation start?

[bankdawg]

yall taking a beating from NC in this thread.

[bankdawg]

You're tripping yourself up on these analogies.

If you're asking me whether or not the owners of Google can fire the CEO for petting a dog, the answer is yes. Employment is at-will in this country and most contracts allow for termination so long as it is for reasons not against Federal law (race, sex, etc).

This is the owner of an asset. The rules and laws are much different and I say again, there needs to be an incredibly high standard to dispossess someone from their asset; otherwise we end up in a country where I can come along and take what you own simply because of MY standards. Robert Sarver telling jokes, speaking to female employees rudely and without thought for their feelings and acting like a high school student in front of of other guys at the office is no where close to that.

All of this. How is this so hard for people to understand, and quite frankly you should want to grasp this.

[jcardstore]

It's truly in no ones best interest. The reality is that when you work for someone else, you are held to a standard that is different than the owner. It does not absolve the owner of their behavior but it does provide them more freedoms than employees in the workplace (and I largely agree with that ideal).

To my knowledge, no employee filed a police report, no employee quit, no employee really said or did anything as a result of Sarver's behavior and there's just a lot of revisionism here because of the circumstances.

In 2008, out of college, I worked for a company where the owner had a firing wheel. Anytime we had to let someone go, he would put our names on the wheel and spin it. If it landed on you, you were fired. I think of that wheel often in terms of owner conduct and while at the time, I was praying for it not to land on me ... I laugh at the absurdity today. Is that an offense that should force the owner to sell?

No crimes committed ... keep your piece of (#&*! you worthless (#&!. Life motto.

This is wild. I couldn't even fathom something like that today

Times have changed quite a bit. Much of what was looked past or the "just the boys being boys" just doesn't fly anymore. For better or for worse.

[RogerGodahell]

The world was a much different place 20 years ago than it is today. Harassment in the workplace was common. I'm not saying it is right just that it was common. By the employers and the employees. At least in my line of work it was. Now it is much different. Now you will get sent home or be fired if you do or say the things people did back then. It is hard to get that type of behavior out of someone if they are older and that was the way they learned. It's easier to train a younger person with the "new way" because that is the only way they know. It's just different generations and different ways of thinking. What was once acceptable is not acceptable anymore.

[NeedChapmans]

This is wild. I couldn't even fathom something like that today

Times have changed quite a bit. Much of what was looked past or the "just the boys being boys" just doesn't fly anymore. For better or for worse.

To be fair, there was a "fire no-one" slice, but it was always the smallest one and it never hit!

Yes times have changed and yes, things that flew fly no more. But I believe that even with this being true, it's difficult to rally around the idea of Sarver being one of the 'bad guys' because of the words and behavior outlined in this report. Yes, he yells. Yes, he's crude. Yes, he's immature.

But even the report went out of it's way to say there was no intent found, no racism found ... and honestly when you consider the scope and resources of this 18-year investigation, it's really not that bad.

[TBarn291]

This is acceptable workplace behavior? You're right, these suggest that he should be removed from his position entirely. Literally any other executive would have been fired



The report outlines six times when Sarver made vulgar or sexual jokes to employees. It found he sent around pornographic material to male Suns executives, including a video and photos of a naked woman.

More than 50 employees said Sarver yelled or cursed at employees as a way to manage them, including in a way that would be considered bullying under the Suns workplace policy, according to the report. Sarver denied yelling at employees to investigators but admitted he may have “raised his voice” after they gave him specific examples.

Sarver commented about the “sex lives, bodies, and sexual orientation” of players, including at least once about a player’s partner. “In another instance, when the Suns were recruiting a free agent in 2015, Sarver made a joke that the team should have players impregnate local Phoenix strippers so they would feel connected to the area, giving the Suns a potential edge in free agency recruitment.

On several instances, the report found that Sarver made demeaning or inappropriate comments about women in the Suns organization, including about the bodies and attractiveness of Suns dancers.

In 2011, a week after he screamed at a female employee because he was unhappy with a video she had produced, causing her to cry, Sarver entered her office and closed the door and “said in substance, ‘Why can’t we get along? What’s wrong with you?’ When the female employee began to cry, Sarver then said in a raised voice, ‘Why do all the women around here cry so much?'”

The investigation found that Sarver “engaged in inequitable and demeaning conduct toward female employees, including bullying.” He told one pregnant female employee in 2008 that she could not continue in her role coordinating an event because when the event was to occur she would have already given birth. “Witnesses recalled Sarver saying, in substance, that the employee could not perform the assignment because she would be “breastfeeding” and her “baby needs their mom, not their father,”


Hilarious

[packman80]

The world was a much different place 20 years ago than it is today. Harassment in the workplace was common. I'm not saying it is right just that it was common. By the employers and the employees. At least in my line of work it was. Now it is much different. Now you will get sent home or be fired if you do or say the things people did back then. It is hard to get that type of behavior out of someone if they are older and that was the way they learned. It's easier to train a younger person with the "new way" because that is the only way they know. It's just different generations and different ways of thinking. What was once acceptable is not acceptable anymore.

A white Badgers assistant basketball coach was forced to resign a couple years ago because he was a former Chicago Bulls player who was retelling the team stories and was quoting what another Bulls player said and it had the N word in it. One of the players who was black was offended went and complained to the school and the coach was forced out. Funny thing is the kid quit the team shortly after that and has bounced around to a few different schools.

[codered]

African American players when a white owner gets caught using racial slurs
https://media1.giphy.com/media/1n7cDZ6WM6oAK4RESA/giphy.gif

African American players react to other players using homophobic language
https://media4.giphy.com/media/ZaF4Vl1NQxwaVsStQU/giphy.gif

Let’s be honest, all the talk is about Sarver using the N word and not the sexist things he said about women. Given the way they have punished players for using hateful language I think they got the punishment spot on. I don’t agree with his behaviour one bit but then again I feel the league has been quite soft on suspensions for players using homophobic language.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[asujbl]

A white Badgers assistant basketball coach was forced to resign a couple years ago because he was a former Chicago Bulls player who was retelling the team stories and was quoting what another Bulls player said and it had the N word in it. One of the players who was black was offended went and complained to the school and the coach was forced out. Funny thing is the kid quit the team shortly after that and has bounced around to a few different schools.

He wasn't an assistant basketball coach
He wasn't a former NBA player

He was the S&T coach at Wisconsin and the S&T coach for the Bulls

[NeedChapmans]

He wasn't an assistant basketball coach
He wasn't a former NBA player

He was the S&T coach at Wisconsin and the S&T coach for the Bulls

As I understand it, Cale Gundy was the same at Oklahoma. I don't know if he was forced to resign, but I absolutely do not like the new standard of not being allowed to quote others.

I will not follow that standard.

[packman80]

He wasn't an assistant basketball coach
He wasn't a former NBA player

He was the S&T coach at Wisconsin and the S&T coach for the Bulls

Still close enough. Him being forced to resign was a bunch of BS. They should have told the kid he does not like it go find his safe place and cry. It's not like the coach was using the word himself to a person.

[oldgoldy97]

Think Harvey or Donald are reading this thread?

[oldgoldy97]

African American players when a white owner gets caught using racial slurs
https://media1.giphy.com/media/1n7cDZ6WM6oAK4RESA/giphy.gif

African American players react to other players using homophobic language
https://media4.giphy.com/media/ZaF4Vl1NQxwaVsStQU/giphy.gif

Let’s be honest, all the talk is about Sarver using the N word and not the sexist things he said about women. Given the way they have punished players for using hateful language I think they got the punishment spot on. I don’t agree with his behaviour one bit but then again I feel the league has been quite soft on suspensions for players using homophobic language.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought the players were too busy trying to free Russian prisoners to worry about local issues?

[spurs50fan]

African American players when a white owner gets caught using racial slurs
https://media1.giphy.com/media/1n7cDZ6WM6oAK4RESA/giphy.gif



I thought this was from January 6th...

Or when they tried to integrate schools...


Carry on :coffee:

[NeedChapmans]

I thought this was from January 6th...

Or when they tried to integrate schools...


Carry on :coffee:

I'd be curious to know what that is from. Pretty intense.

[spurs50fan]

I'd be curious to know what that is from. Pretty intense.

Same tbh. I keep re-watching towards the bottom where the police tapped those hands :D:D

[jcardstore]

I'd be curious to know what that is from. Pretty intense.

1:51 - the original footage who knows

xtrEN-YKLBM?t=111

[NeedChapmans]

1:51 - the original footage who knows

xtrEN-YKLBM?t=111

Somebody go ask David Bowie or Freddy Mercury what this is from, get back to me please. TY.

[AbraCalabro]

I thought the players were too busy trying to free Russian prisoners to worry about local issues?

I thought this was from 2020, I hope those peaceful protesters were wearing masks and practicing social distancing. :mad:

[JeremyNick]

Got it, yeah I had heard about that and was amazed at how much of an idiot LeBron could be.

#witness

[Zedlaw]

This feels like a case of eminent domain. And for that I think there needs to be a much bigger groundswell of protest against Sarver, which just isn't there. The NBA punished him as much as they could, outside of that it is up to the people to adequately protest his continued presence owning the team.

Every year I'm less of a Suns fan. Do I not care as much because I'm older or because rooting for the Suns is also rooting for this guy? Bad ownership sucks as a sports fan and every fan has their own threshold for when they lose interest, Sarver is hitting mine and I'm sad.

[clocsta2323]

I've been conditioned to be so ashamed of my white privilege and the inborn, dormant racism within me, I want him to have to forfeit his team.

[daeve]

Jahm Najafi, who owns the 2nd largest stake in the team, just called for his resignation. Probably gonna gain some real steam now.

[KhalDrogo]

Any players refuse to take his money yet?

[ninjacookies]

Let's face it. Sterling was forced out because the Clippers were an ailing, miserable franchise under his guidance for several decades.

While the Suns have suddenly transformed into one of the premier up-and-coming squads of this decade.


Apples and cumquats.

[daeve]

Paypal now states they won't renew their jersey sponsorhip deal if Sarver is still with the team after this season.

[jcardstore]

The writing is on the wall. Sarver will be out

[NeedChapmans]

Jahm Najafi, who owns the 2nd largest stake in the team, just called for his resignation. Probably gonna gain some real steam now.

Nah, Najafi is looking for an angle to buy more of the team.

He put $75 milllion into Paula Deen shortly after her n-word slip ups; he's just performing as usual.

[Dame]

Only way Sarver will be forced to sell the team is if the sponsors starts to threaten to go elsewhere unless he's out permanently.

[packman80]

Paypal now states they won't renew their jersey sponsorhip deal if Sarver is still with the team after this season.

Not shocked in cancel culture today everyone is forced out.

[oldgoldy97]

Not shocked in cancel culture today everyone is forced out.

Is Kaep still with Nike?

[clocsta2323]

Is Kaep still with Nike?

He's a messiah. Nike is lucky to have him. Any company would.

[BennyLiquid]

Only way Sarver will be forced to sell the team is if the sponsors starts to threaten to go elsewhere unless he's out permanently.

PayPal is already threatening to leave.

[asujbl]

He’s going to make his 3 billion (sell for… not net) and be gone. Just a matter of time

[packman80]

Is Kaep still with Nike?

That's why I laugh at people saying Kaepernick is being blackballed by NFL not being let back to play. Dude has zero interest in playing with what Nike is paying him. He's making millions and just has to pretend every few months like he still wants to play and it's all good.

[ninjacookies]

Sarbs is a Kendall Jenner baecation tweet from being Steve Easterbrook'd.

https://fansided.com/files/2014/04/mauerstrikethree.gif


Make your time.

[duron]

I just played Hellz Wind Staff by Wu-Tang. I want to admit that I might’ve recited the lyrics as a youth.

Hope my BO account doesn’t get suspended.

[ninjacookies]

I just played Hellz Wind Staff by Wu-Tang. I want to admit that I might’ve recited the lyrics as a youth.

Hope my BO account doesn’t get suspended.

Recite that ish again.

https://c.tenor.com/nOSJ3K3Y0DIAAAAd/black-guy-staring-at-someone.gif

To my face.

[sportzluvr1]

And people still think the goal is equality.

[KhalDrogo]

Can’t wait for this to blow up in Silver’s face.

[duron]

Recite that ish again.

To my face.

we on the run with the golden guns, get you none
when they reach out and touch someone, blaze they buns
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/08/3f/ab/17/all-buns-blazeing.jpg

[ninjacookies]

we on the run with the golden guns, get you none
when they reach out and touch someone, blaze they buns
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/08/3f/ab/17/all-buns-blazeing.jpg


https://c.tenor.com/nffa-nPxFRcAAAAC/community-ken-jeong.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c0/a5/5e/c0a55ee0cd89cbae609fc123ef36d3ac.jpg

[duron]

https://c.tenor.com/nffa-nPxFRcAAAAC/community-ken-jeong.gif

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c0/a5/5e/c0a55ee0cd89cbae609fc123ef36d3ac.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/BF6LhOPl.jpg

[daeve]

Nah, Najafi is looking for an angle to buy more of the team.

He put $75 milllion into Paula Deen shortly after her n-word slip ups; he's just performing as usual.

Yeah I didn't add any commentary as to why - Najafi is also a billionaire. Can't trust any of them to take moral high grounds over $.

[Asian62150]

Nah, Najafi is looking for an angle to buy more of the team.

He put $75 milllion into Paula Deen shortly after her n-word slip ups; he's just performing as usual.

Most billionaires don't get there by buying at the peak.

But I'm sure it's also not good for business when it comes out that CEO is creating a toxic work environment and causing sponsors to terminate their contracts. Civic leaders in the area are also calling for Sarver to resign.

[rustywest]

He gone. Domino's already started to fall. The weight of cancel culture will prevail

[rustywest]

Can’t wait for this to blow up in Silver’s face.

Why do you watch the NBA? You constantly snipe, b*tch and moan about its operations. Turns out they did very well during the pandemic bringing basketball to the fans despite logistical nightmares and the play in has been a major success and here to stay - Just two things I remember you criticizing from behind your screen. Maybe just stick to being a nurse? I don't see how this can blow up in the commissioners face, he handed down a penalty and it will result in him being forced out... its pretty much the perfect scenario

[Lemontree]

Why do you watch the NBA? You constantly snipe, b*tch and moan about its operations. Turns out they did very well during the pandemic bringing basketball to the fans despite logistical nightmares and the play in has been a major success and here to stay - Just two things I remember you criticizing from behind your screen. Maybe just stick to being a nurse? I don't see how this can blow up in the commissioners face, he handed down a penalty and it will result in him being forced out... its pretty much the perfect scenario

How's that? Did you ever look at the ratings at the time the NBA went full social justice warrior?

[rustywest]

How's that? Did you ever look at the ratings at the time the NBA went full social justice warrior?

Ever heard of League Pass? You aware countries exist outside of America? People out here don't care about say their name or whatever on the jersey, they just like the game

[rustywest]

How's that? Did you ever look at the ratings at the time the NBA went full social justice warrior?

Seriously - because they gave us basketball. Despite all the bullsh*t, the pandemic protocols and the other stuff I easily ignored... we had seasons.

PS. Your TV ratings are antiquated

[KhalDrogo]

Why do you watch the NBA? You constantly snipe, b*tch and moan about its operations. Turns out they did very well during the pandemic bringing basketball to the fans despite logistical nightmares and the play in has been a major success and here to stay - Just two things I remember you criticizing from behind your screen. Maybe just stick to being a nurse? I don't see how this can blow up in the commissioners face, he handed down a penalty and it will result in him being forced out... its pretty much the perfect scenario
Why do you read my posts? You follow me around like a puppy, and constantly snipe, bitch and moan about the contents.

Also love how you know I’m a physician, but try to insult me by belittling nurses. Nice one little man.

[rustywest]

Why do you read my posts? You follow me around like a puppy, and constantly snipe, bitch and moan about the contents.

Also love how you know I’m a physician, but try to insult me by belittling nurses. Nice one little man.

Zero substance in this reply

[oldgoldy97]

Why do you read my posts? You follow me around like a puppy, and constantly snipe, bitch and moan about the contents.

Also love how you know I’m a physician, but try to insult me by belittling nurses. Nice one little man.

Five foot three.

[rustywest]

Why do you read my posts? You follow me around like a puppy, and constantly snipe, bitch and moan about the contents.

Also love how you know I’m a physician, but try to insult me by belittling nurses. Nice one little man.

Actually never knew that, I knew you worked in the medical industry but thanks for the expose. True, makes more sense now - nurses are caring and empathetic whilst in my experience the higher up the ladder the more egotistical and grandiose the medical profession becomes. Prayers you show more respect to your patients as opposed to your online persona

https://c.tenor.com/Oef8u1_6FSUAAAAM/jim-carrey-disgusted.gif

[duron]

Actually never knew that, I knew you worked in the medical industry but thanks for the expose. True, makes more sense now - nurses are caring and empathetic whilst in my experience the higher up the ladder the more egotistical and grandiose the medical profession becomes. Prayers you show more respect to your patients as opposed to your online persona

https://c.tenor.com/Oef8u1_6FSUAAAAM/jim-carrey-disgusted.gif

Depends where honestly. You wouldn’t believe the nurses I used to work with. Zero compassion, always angry, openly complained about the hospital in front of sick patients… lovely ladies!

[rustywest]

Depends where honestly. You wouldn’t believe the nurses I used to work with. Zero compassion, always angry, openly complained about the hospital in front of sick patients… lovely ladies!

Aunts are rough :cry:

[Blazed]

This is acceptable workplace behavior? You're right, these suggest that he should be removed from his position entirely. Literally any other executive would have been fired

I see someone who has never worked in the corporate arena. If you don't think this type of behavior goes on in the c-suites, then you clearly have never made it too high on the totem pole.

Carry on though, this is just one more thread you're getting schooled in on how the real world works.

[SK40]

Anyone using the NBA, its executives, coaches or players as a moral and ethical compass will surely wind up in the wrong place.

[jcardstore]

I see someone who has never worked in the corporate arena. If you don't think this type of behavior goes on in the c-suites, then you clearly have never made it too high on the totem pole.

Carry on though, this is just one more thread you're getting schooled in on how the real world works.

You’re a really weird dude :cry:

Remind me what public company you’re an executive at?

[oldgoldy97]

You’re a really weird dude :cry:

Remind me what public company you’re an executive at?

Probably Chick-fil-A

[Corporal Lance]

Actually never knew that, I knew you worked in the medical industry but thanks for the expose. True, makes more sense now - nurses are caring and empathetic whilst in my experience the higher up the ladder the more egotistical and grandiose the medical profession becomes. Prayers you show more respect to your patients as opposed to your online persona

https://c.tenor.com/Oef8u1_6FSUAAAAM/jim-carrey-disgusted.gif

I kind of think this was uncalled for.

[Blazed]

You’re a really weird dude :cry:

Remind me what public company you’re an executive at?

What's really weird is, every thread I see you in, you're getting corrected. So that's a dead give away you haven't made it out of the "subordinate" area of the work place yet.

But all jokes aside, the c-suites are like fraternities and at most companies it's no secret. So you trying to argue that point shows your lack of life experiences. You seem to think executive levels of companies are all rainbows and sunshine.

#dismissed

[Spacemanspif]

I see someone who has never worked in the corporate arena. If you don't think this type of behavior goes on in the c-suites, then you clearly have never made it too high on the totem pole.

Carry on though, this is just one more thread you're getting schooled in on how the real world works.

It exists, but it's all stuff that goes unsaid. The moment those actions become public, they go on sabbatical or give a sudden "voluntary" resignation. I used to work in Corp, and know how much they get paid off when they are forced into early retirement. But for the sake of making us all .00001% smarter (or 10% dumber), go ahead and tell us how the real world works.

[jcardstore]

What's really weird is, every thread I see you in, you're getting corrected. So that's a dead give away you haven't made it out of the "subordinate" area of the work place yet.

But all jokes aside, the c-suites are like fraternities and at most companies it's no secret. So you trying to argue that point shows your lack of life experiences. You seem to think executive levels of companies are all rainbows and sunshine.

#dismissed

You never told us what company you’re an executive at, since you know so much about how the real world works :cry:

I do hope this is giving you the attention you so desperately need, though.

[Blazed]

You never told us what company you’re an executive at, since you know so much about how the real world works :cry:

Why? So you can continue your high school girl antics and reply with, "That's a a lie!!!!!!! (emoji X10) I know you work the register at Sonic! (emoji X10). Scoot along kid.

I do hope this is giving you the attention you so desperately need, though.

The irony. I've seen a few people tell you that when you pop off and post wrong info then instead of saying you were wrong you throw the high school insults around. I can only imagine what a simp you are in rl.

[Blazed]

It exists, but it's all stuff that goes unsaid. The moment those actions become public, they go on sabbatical or give a sudden "voluntary" resignation. I used to work in Corp, and know how much they get paid off when they are forced into early retirement. But for the sake of making us all .00001% smarter (or 10% dumber), go ahead and tell us how the real world works.

He thought that this type of stuff was a myth and that Sarver was the only one who has ever done this type of stuff. I corrected him. Then you show up to white knight for him by saying the exact same thing I said....? What am I missing?

[jcardstore]

billy badass executive spending his time sh!tposting on BO is peak 2022.

Carry on :cry:

[indyguy]

I see someone who has never worked in the corporate arena. If you don't think this type of behavior goes on in the c-suites, then you clearly have never made it too high on the totem pole.

Carry on though, this is just one more thread you're getting schooled in on how the real world works.

What's really weird is, every thread I see you in, you're getting corrected. So that's a dead give away you haven't made it out of the "subordinate" area of the work place yet.

But all jokes aside, the c-suites are like fraternities and at most companies it's no secret. So you trying to argue that point shows your lack of life experiences. You seem to think executive levels of companies are all rainbows and sunshine.

#dismissed

Why? So you can continue your high school girl antics and reply with, "That's a a lie!!!!!!! (emoji X10) I know you work the register at Sonic! (emoji X10). Scoot along kid.



The irony. I've seen a few people tell you that when you pop off and post wrong info then instead of saying you were wrong you throw the high school insults around. I can only imagine what a simp you are in rl.

He thought that this type of stuff was a myth and that Sarver was the only one who has ever done this type of stuff. I corrected him. Then you show up to white knight for him by saying the exact same thing I said....? What am I missing?

I can't put my finger on what PBM this is, but very aggressive posts so early definitely give off "getting banned soon" vibes.

[JeremyNick]

I can't put my finger on what PBM this is, but very aggressive posts so early definitely give off "getting banned soon" vibes.

He’s been around longing then you.

Not white knighting, I actually had the same thought then I looked at his join date.

Also this thread has delivered.

C-Suites, MDs, fratbois. 8/10

[oldgoldy97]

Ever heard of a sleeper cell?

There are a few double account members on this forum. If you don’t believe that, you’re naive.

[jcardstore]

Going dormant for 10 years only to come back in the last couple months posting every day acting like the greatest flipper/trader/executive ever?

Yea dude is definitely a PBM.

[KhalDrogo]

Ever heard of a sleeper cell?

There are a few double account members on this forum. If you don’t believe that, you’re naive.
Right. Look at the post history. Goes ghost for 10 years after only posting a handful of times, and now look at the posting pattern.

[Blazed]

I can't put my finger on what PBM this is, but very aggressive posts so early definitely give off "getting banned soon" vibes.

Ever heard of a sleeper cell?

There are a few double account members on this forum. If you don’t believe that, you’re naive.

Right. Look at the post history. Goes ghost for 10 years after only posting a handful of times, and now look at the posting pattern.

I went ghost for 10 years because I went to college and had a job. Forgot about the hobby and was reminded of it when the card market exploded last year and saw an article on card collecting was booming.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

The forum is entertainment for me. Just like it is for Khal, and a few others who always stir people up or derail threads with nonsense. But I guess since they have a high post count, their shenanigans are a-ok on the forum.

[oldgoldy97]

Snazzy when twenty year olds are giving wizened advice. Means they’ve took off like a rocket. Congrats.

[indyguy]

10 years for college? Congrats, Dr....

[oldgoldy97]

Can’t afford many more doctors on here.

We’re already capped on CPAs and lawyers.

[indyguy]

Can’t afford many more doctors on here.

We’re already capped on CPAs and lawyers.

I think we are smack in the middle of the "buyers club" with all these high rollers.

[Blazed]

10 years for college? Congrats, Dr....

Reading isn't your strong point. I said I went to college then had a job... forgot about the hobby.

I guess before I left I should have posted a lot of crap and got my post count up to 30k, then I'd be in the "cool club" right?

Now I see why all the OG's are gone and don't post anymore. It's impossible with all the tin foil hats and the "lets gang up on people like little school girls" crowd :doh:

[indyguy]

Reading isn't your strong point. I said I went to college then had a job... forgot about the hobby.

I guess before I left I should have posted a lot of crap and got my post count up to 30k, then I'd be in the "cool club" right?

Now I see why all the OG's are gone and don't post anymore. It's impossible with all the tin foil hats and the "lets gang up on people like little school girls" crowd :doh:

Sarcasm not your strong point I see.

That "job" I'm sure is real important to your posting ability. Glad you aren't in the "corporate world" now so you can post with us in the "cool club".

The OGs that you speak of...you remember them from your previous account to know their whereabouts?

Hopefully I used all my quotes right.

Also, how do you know what I was referring to by PBM?

[KhalDrogo]

I guess before I left I should have posted a lot of crap and got my post count up to 30k, then I'd be in the "cool club" right?
Membership is by vote. I don’t think you’ll get in with this kind of attitude.

[AbraCalabro]

Now I see why all the OG's are gone and don't post anymore.

Just out of curiosity, who are the OGs you are referring to?

[oldgoldy97]

Paul, Murke, SCIU, that Nuggets guy.

[indyguy]

Paul, Murke, SCIU, that Nuggets guy.

Don't forget his boy, Haiku!

[Blazed]

Also, how do you know what I was referring to by PBM?

You really think this message board is rocket science don't you? You think PBM is a secret code that only a few people know? Just because I didn't post didn't mean I wasn't reading the forum.

I decided to start participating again because the forum is a toxic dumpster fire. I figured why not add to it.

Just out of curiosity, who are the OGs you are referring to?

I can't remember all the user names, but the guy who collected Chris Webber, Grant, The 2 military guys that did give aways, The other Grant who was on pawn stars, Monkey, and a lot of other people that were fun on the forums. They used to post good threads and good info. I guess they don't post here anymore since all the "campfire girls" took the forums over.

[asujbl]

You really think this message board is rocket science don't you? You think PBM is a secret code that only a few people know? Just because I didn't post didn't mean I wasn't reading the forum.

I decided to start participating again because the forum is a toxic dumpster fire. I figured why not add to it.



I can't remember all the user names, but the guy who collected Chris Webber, Grant, The 2 military guys that did give aways, The other Grant who was on pawn stars, Monkey, and a lot of other people that were fun on the forums. They used to post good threads and good info. I guess they don't post here anymore since all the "campfire girls" took the forums over.

So you can’t remember a single username… not all the usernames… none

Profound impact on your life (I’ll assume at Tnarg is one though)

[Blazed]

So you can’t remember a single username… not all the usernames… none

Profound impact on your life (I’ll assume at Tnarg is one though)

It's a forum, it's not like I was BFF's for life. They just posted interesting stuff that lead to good discussions.

[AbraCalabro]

I can't remember all the user names, but the guy who collected Chris Webber, Grant, The 2 military guys that did give aways, The other Grant who was on pawn stars, Monkey, and a lot of other people that were fun on the forums. They used to post good threads and good info. I guess they don't post here anymore since all the "campfire girls" took the forums over.

Got it. The Webber guy you're referring to is MGoBlue, he still posts from time to time but sold off his Webber collection a while back cold turkey. I don't recall why he decided to sell it off though.

If you're referring to GSlayton, he left with another crowd of people, most of which got called out on their B.S. on a regular basis. I think he left because people were making a point about how he continued to support EBitz, who was revealed to be defrauding customers.

(He, EBitz, was selling altered cards, knowing they were altered and when provided with evidence, he did not take listings down from eBay. This is why he is banned from the site. He also sold and still sells on his personal site, which was built by one of the guys who doesn't post here anymore.) So all this to say, not all of these OG guys are such great people. Not all are bad, but enough of them were and I don't hear that they've changed.

Monkey doesn't post anymore because he is banned. I'm not sure who the military guys are/were.

Although I'd agree, the forum is a dumpster fire. However, I think the major reason you just don't see the diversified big hauls of yesteryear is because the sh!t is just too expensive and if you make it public that you're looking for cards of specific players, you have effectively caused the price to jump even higher.

Additionally, the guys circle jerking cards between one another are on IG now, whether they left BO, or were always on IG, that's where the big show is. It's conducive to every scammer, price fixer and blood sucker because they don't get called out there. The call out / detective IG users are also buddy buddy with the big names, so they get a free pass.

On a large scale, it's entirely money-centric under the facade of being about a long corroded hobby. You won't find much discussion on cards / sets either, because if it's not perceived as being high value, no one gives a sh!t.

Look at what most of the long threads are about, league talk, money, one specific player and how he's going to pan out (monetary value).

In every way that matters, it's a different paradigm altogether now.

[Blazed]

Got it. The Webber guy you're referring to is MGoBlue, he still posts from time to time but sold off his Webber collection a while back cold turkey. I don't recall why he decided to sell it off though.

Yes, he posted good stuff. He had 2 other friends that always did huge recaps of their trip to the Nationals with a lot of pics. That's the kind of stuff I like to see and read. Pretty much non existent now.

If you're referring to GSlayton, he left with another crowd of people, most of which got called out on their B.S. on a regular basis. I think he left because people were making a point about how he continued to support EBitz, who was revealed to be defrauding customers.

Didn't know all of that. Seemed like a good dude when he posted here about his collection.

(He, EBitz, was selling altered cards, knowing they were altered and when provided with evidence, he did not take listings down from eBay. This is why he is banned from the site. He also sold and still sells on his personal site, which was built by one of the guys who doesn't post here anymore.) So all this to say, not all of these OG guys are such great people. Not all are bad, but enough of them were and I don't hear that they've changed.

I missed the whole ebits thing.

Monkey doesn't post anymore because he is banned. I'm not sure who the military guys are/were.

Didn't know Monkey was banned. The Military guys, one was from FL and the other PA? They were friends and did giveaways when they posted cards for sale. They always had a lot of good threads that had a lot of interaction and were fun to read through.

Although I'd agree, the forum is a dumpster fire. However, I think the major reason you just don't see the diversified big hauls of yesteryear is because the sh!t is just too expensive and if you make it public that you're looking for cards of specific players, you have effectively caused the price to jump even higher.

I know the hobby has changed. But posting your pickups on maildays here was pretty cool. Value didn't matter, maildays were maildays. Maildays also lead to good discussions about obscure cards that people might not have known about. That stopped because of the crew here now derails everything. It seems like people just look for drama now.

Additionally, the guys circle jerking cards between one another are on IG now, whether they left BO, or were always on IG, that's where the big show is. It's conducive to every scammer, price fixer and blood sucker because they don't get called out there. The call out / detective IG users are also buddy buddy with the big names, so they get a free pass.

Yes, I saw all the richard riding going on at the National this year. I have an IG just to look at posts, and ironically I see some of the loudest critics here riding the hardest on IG. I mentioned that and got piled on.

On a large scale, it's entirely money-centric under the facade of being about a long corroded hobby. You won't find much discussion on cards / sets either, because if it's not perceived as being high value, no one gives a sh!t.

Sad what the hobby has become. But that's no reason that a forum, where everyone has the same mindset which is collecting, should be this out of control. It's money driven because that's what people make it. Look on IG, people buying the most expensive cards get the most interaction. We made the hobby what it is today, a narcissists paradise.

Look at what most of the long threads are about, league talk, money, one specific player and how he's going to pan out (monetary value).

Those threads are long because people give them life. Khol is one of the biggest antagonists on here, yet he has people richard riding him and white knighting for him. Doesn't make sense.

So yes, I stooped to a childish level. But damn, you can't post anything on here with out getting bashed if you don't agree with certain people.

[oldgoldy97]

Ronlabo was military. I feel bad I can’t remember his friend’s name. He was good, too.

[oldgoldy97]

Paul had the cat with a melon hat picture.

There’s some other goon I can’t remember back in the Paul era.

[Blazed]

Ronlabo was military. I feel bad I can’t remember his friend’s name. He was good, too.

Yes! That's him and ND3. Good dudes I really liked their content.

[Boo]

Ronlabo was military. I feel bad I can’t remember his friend’s name. He was good, too.

ND3 and BamBam

[indyguy]

Paul had the cat with a melon hat picture.

There’s some other goon I can’t remember back in the Paul era.

I think Paul got banned too. I did enjoy the polarizing threads he made though.

[indyguy]

Look at what most of the long threads are about, league talk, money, one specific player and how he's going to pan out (monetary value).



cough PovertyMailDayThread cough

[KhalDrogo]

Those threads are long because people give them life. Khol is one of the biggest antagonists on here, yet he has people richard riding him and white knighting for him. Doesn't make sense.
:cry:

Nobody white knights for me. Truth hurts though. I tell a guy that buying LeBron as a scoring record play is a stupid move, and within a couple hours he openly admits he’s a PBM and gets himself banned again. Why so serious?

[oldgoldy97]

Yes! That's him and ND3. Good dudes I really liked their content.

ND3. Nick and Ron told it like it was. BamBam, too.

[tennelson55]

So you can’t remember a single username… not all the usernames… none

Profound impact on your life (I’ll assume at Tnarg is one though)

Where did Grant go? I see he is now banned...

[asujbl]

Where did Grant go? I see he is now banned...

No clue. Just see him on social media

[Siberian13]

Dang they came down hard on Anthony Edwards. Privileged

[EBCollectibles]

So let me just start out by saying I think Sarver should be forced to sell.

That being said I think this is worthy of some more nuanced discussion.

Sterling had an absolute mountain of indisputable evidence against him and was just an all around terrible guy.

I also think that there is a big difference in being outwardly racist and repeating what someone else said. Clearly, both are wrong and unacceptable but I think one is worse for obvious reasons.

Montrezz Harrell is a racist and they just swept his under the rug with a apology he was forced to give.

[Noles939913]

Montrezz Harrell is a racist and they just swept his under the rug with a apology he was forced to give.

Carlton Davis casually threw out the term g**k (an insult to Asians for those who don’t know) and I don’t even think he had to do that. You’re pretty safe these days unless you say something about black people or the LGBTQIA2S+ community.

[TheFrenzy]

I went ghost for 10 years because I went to college and had a job.

I'm more impressed that you still remembered your username and/or password.

[AbraCalabro]

Montrezz Harrell is a racist and they just swept his under the rug with a apology he was forced to give.

It wasn't a big deal on this site, I remember the acronym, BAWB being thrown around here for a short while.

[TheFrenzy]

It wasn't a big deal on this site, I remember the acronym, BAWB being thrown around here for a short while.

https://i.imgur.com/ScKPiYf.jpg?1

[AbraCalabro]

there it is lol

totally cool one way around

totally not the other way around

nothing wrong with that equation

what a time to be alive

[daeve]

Could y'all try being less embarrassing for like, one day?

[MTBRM]

Could y'all try being less embarrassing for like, one day?


You’re asking a lot from a forum where the better half of it probably stormed the Capitol.

[GOATcards]

Could y'all try being less embarrassing for like, one day?

most of the users on my Ignore list have been filling up this thread, apparently they're down to trolling each other since no one else is interested in their bad-faith time-wasting. So be it. (middle-finger and breaking-wind emojis in their direction)

[EBCollectibles]

Carlton Davis casually threw out the term g**k (an insult to Asians for those who don’t know) and I don’t even think he had to do that. You’re pretty safe these days unless you say something about black people or the LGBTQIA2S+ community.

:)!:)!:)! Sad but true.

[Wade Mulroy]

Dang they came down hard on Anthony Edwards. Privileged

Interesting seeing the initial reaction to this:

On one side, you have folks that are mad that Edwards was fined at all and shouldn’t have even apologized.

On the other side, you have folks that think the league didn’t punish him enough and this is another example of a marginalized group continuing to be marginalized.

In the end, no one seems satisfied.

For the record, I don’t care about Ant or the league, but am intrigued by the process when these issues pop up.

[TheFrenzy]

Interesting seeing the initial reaction to this:

On one side, you have folks that are mad that Edwards was fined at all and shouldn’t have even apologized.

On the other side, you have folks that think the league didn’t punish him enough and this is another example of a marginalized group continuing to be marginalized.

In the end, no one seems satisfied.

For the record, I don’t care about Ant or the league, but am intrigued by the process when these issues pop up.

It's the inevitable result of our rampant partisanship and the culture wars. The only thing worse than someone from "the other side" criticizing you is someone supposedly "on your side." In-fighting and internal critiques are not allowed these days.

We're seeing this here in the American Historical Association right now. Our president, James Sweet, recently wrote in his monthly column (https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/september-2022/is-history-history-identity-politics-and-teleologies-of-the-present) that historians today are allowing presentism (judging actors of the past by the standards of the present) and political activism to cloud their judgement as historians.

It immediately sparked outrage. (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/08/22/white-nationalist-enters-historians-debate-presentism)

Politically-motivated historians accused Sweet of all kinds of horrible things.

So Sweet issued an apology.

Then some historians came out in defense of his article and expressed their disappointment in him for caving in and apologizing for telling the truth.

Then trolls like Richard Spencer jumped in and laughed at how the academy was tearing itself apart over identity politics.

Which has set off a fresh round of outrage by the politically-motivated historians who now see Sweet's article as giving ammunition to their worst enemies.

It's an absolute mess.

[jcardstore]

It's the inevitable result of our rampant partisanship and the culture wars. The only thing worse than someone from "the other side" criticizing you is someone supposedly "on your side." In-fighting and internal critiques are not allowed these days.

We're seeing this here in the American Historical Association right now. Our president, James Sweet, recently wrote in his monthly column (https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/september-2022/is-history-history-identity-politics-and-teleologies-of-the-present) that historians today are allowing presentism (judging actors of the past by the standards of the present) and political activism to cloud their judgement as historians.

It immediately sparked outrage. (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/08/22/white-nationalist-enters-historians-debate-presentism)

Politically-motivated historians accused Sweet of all kinds of horrible things.

So Sweet issued an apology.

Then some historians came out in defense of his article and expressed their disappointment in him for caving in and apologizing for telling the truth.

Then trolls like Richard Spencer jumped in and laughed at how the academy was tearing itself apart over identity politics.

Which has set off a fresh round of outrage by the politically-motivated historians who now see Sweet's article as giving ammunition to their worst enemies.

It's an absolute mess.

This would be a fascinating discussion / debate but obviously forums are not the best format for it.

I actually think I tend to agree with his sentiment but as with everything it's very gray

[TheFrenzy]

This would be a fascinating discussion / debate but obviously forums are not the best format for it.

I actually think I tend to agree with his sentiment but as with everything it's very gray

One of his most salient points was that we've allowed the past to become a grab bag of disconnected facts which can plucked from their historical context and used to support whatever our present political convictions are.

He says that if that's all history is, then almost anyone can claim historical expertise.

[rustywest]

Interesting seeing the initial reaction to this:

On one side, you have folks that are mad that Edwards was fined at all and shouldn’t have even apologized.

On the other side, you have folks that think the league didn’t punish him enough and this is another example of a marginalized group continuing to be marginalized.

In the end, no one seems satisfied.

For the record, I don’t care about Ant or the league, but am intrigued by the process when these issues pop up.

Are you talking about the reactions on this forum or another sphere? All the outspoken people in this forum are what you speak of. Its either black or white for the fools but there are plenty of people who think without prejudice. Most people probably can't even be bothered or are scared to even make comment because of all the 'big-shots' around here that will jump down your throat. Ant made a public bungle and he was punished fairly accordingly by today's standards I suppose... taking into account his age and the "severity" of the actual incident.

[jcardstore]

One of his most salient points was that we've allowed the past to become a grab bag of disconnected facts which can plucked from their historical context and used to support whatever our present political convictions are.

He says that if that's all history is, then almost anyone can claim historical expertise.

Which I think most rational people understand is silly but rationality gets drowned out by the hard core identity politics people and media.

[Wade Mulroy]

Are you talking about the reactions on this forum or another sphere? All the outspoken people in this forum are what you speak of. Its either black or white for the fools but there are plenty of people who think without prejudice. Most people probably can't even be bothered or are scared to even make comment because of all the 'big-shots' around here that will jump down your throat. Ant made a public bungle and he was punished fairly accordingly by today's standards I suppose... taking into account his age and the "severity" of the actual incident.

Sorry, I should've clarified.

I delved into the dregs of the Twitter-sphere to read comments/reaction about the news. I realize that usually only reflects the extremes and I'm always hopeful the silent majority usually are willing to provide more nuance and consideration to scenarios like this... As was mentioned earlier, these formats usually are better formats for those who want to shout and debate the loudest, as opposed to any type of critical thinking.

[TheFrenzy]

Which I think most rational people understand is silly but rationality gets drowned out by the hard core identity politics people and media.

<insert joke about how rare rational people are these days>

For real though, the internet and social media are not forces for democratization. They do not function on the basis of "1 person, 1 tweet."

Instead, they prioritize those who—either through privilege or unemployment—have the time to post constantly and loudly.

[oldgoldy97]

<insert joke about how rare rational people are these days>

For real though, the internet and social media are not forces for democratization. They do not function on the basis of "1 person, 1 tweet."

Instead, they prioritize those who—either through privilege or unemployment—have the time to post constantly and loudly.

New quote material.

[jcardstore]

And in a totally not surprising turn of events Sarver is selling both teams. NOBODY saw that one coming :coffee:

[daeve]

There he goes - adios sh*tbag!

[rustywest]

And in a totally not surprising turn of events Sarver is selling both teams. NOBODY saw that one coming :coffee:

Kraldog didn't

[rhigh2390]

And in a totally not surprising turn of events Sarver is selling both teams. NOBODY saw that one coming :coffee:

Get your couple billion and enjoy life.

https://workstride.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/levitan_rick_1.jpg

[Asian62150]

One of the biggest perks for being majority owner is the ego stroke that comes from being seen courtside and being front and center when the team wins/gets the hardware/goes on the parade, etc...

I think Sarver realized he would not be celebrated even if the team won and would always been ridiculed and booed every time he showed his face in public moving forward.

[Zedlaw]

"As a man of faith, I believe in atonement and the path to forgiveness," Sarver said in a statement Wednesday. "I expected that the commissioner's one-year suspension would provide the time for me to focus, make amends and remove my personal controversy from the teams that I and so many fans love.

"But in our current unforgiving climate, it has become painfully clear that that is no longer possible -- that whatever good I have done, or could still do, is outweighed by things I have said in the past. For those reasons, I am beginning the process of seeking buyers for the Suns and Mercury."

We can't forget, Sarver is the victim here. What a piece of work. I'm a happier fan today.

[Asian62150]

"As a man of faith, I believe in atonement and the path to forgiveness," Sarver said in a statement Wednesday. "I expected that the commissioner's one-year suspension would provide the time for me to focus, make amends and remove my personal controversy from the teams that I and so many fans love.

"But in our current unforgiving climate, it has become painfully clear that that is no longer possible -- that whatever good I have done, or could still do, is outweighed by things I have said in the past. For those reasons, I am beginning the process of seeking buyers for the Suns and Mercury."

We can't forget, Sarver is the victim here. What a piece of work. I'm a happier fan today.

#neverforget
#savesarver???

[jcardstore]

This fking guy :doh: even after all of this, this clown is still playing the victim.

Good riddance now let’s see deals get pulled from his real estate company too so he can learn about being humble. Good god

[GOATcards]

It's the inevitable result of our rampant partisanship and the culture wars. The only thing worse than someone from "the other side" criticizing you is someone supposedly "on your side." In-fighting and internal critiques are not allowed these days.

We're seeing this here in the American Historical Association right now. Our president, James Sweet, recently wrote in his monthly column (https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/september-2022/is-history-history-identity-politics-and-teleologies-of-the-present) that historians today are allowing presentism (judging actors of the past by the standards of the present) and political activism to cloud their judgement as historians.

It immediately sparked outrage. (https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2022/08/22/white-nationalist-enters-historians-debate-presentism)

Politically-motivated historians accused Sweet of all kinds of horrible things.

So Sweet issued an apology.

Then some historians came out in defense of his article and expressed their disappointment in him for caving in and apologizing for telling the truth.

Then trolls like Richard Spencer jumped in and laughed at how the academy was tearing itself apart over identity politics.

Which has set off a fresh round of outrage by the politically-motivated historians who now see Sweet's article as giving ammunition to their worst enemies.

It's an absolute mess.

[BEWARE: political content lol]

Same thing in essence going on at Scientific American (https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/08/21/scientific-american-dedicates-itself-to-politics-not-science-refuses-to-publish-rebuttals-of-their-false-or-misleading-claims/). A real bang-up job this whole "wokeness" thing is doing to the intellectual professions in so short a period of time, huh? The Cultural Revolution must continue at breakneck speed (lest you be a racist).

There isn't even any real controversy or debate going on about this. On one side it's smart honest people in agreement on what a disaster this all is for the republic (unless educational alternatives to the madness are implemented), and on the other side is nonstop Dunning-Kruger cases crying racism at the top of their lungs (they're in a race panic) and canceling anyone who questions them. (Or in the case of Loury & McWhorter (https://www.google.com/search?q=loury+mcwhorter), the two black Ivy League professors standing up against all this ideological trash, they are simply ignored (another form of canceling). Ignoring/disrespecting black Ivy League professors is all of a sudden "antiracist," apparently. In fact there's a huge all-of-a-sudden quality about this intellectual clown-show/trainwreck, as it doubles down and comes up with new craziness when the previous craziness gets refuted under even minimal scrutiny. You simply cannot have a rational conversation with people who stubbornly adhere to indefensible notions (https://www.city-journal.org/how-to-be-an-antiracist). [Note that this book review is by a 20-something black intellectual tearing apart the *leading* theorist of this nonsense; you don't even need L&M spending their valuable time on it (although M does (https://www.google.com/search?q=mcwhorter+kendi)).])

(You mention partisanship at the beginning of your post. This isn't mere partisanship; this is in some other category. This is a group of hysterical ideologues pretending to be all morally superior, generating mutual contempt and enmity between them and all those Racists out there. Psychologically they're well-suited for a Maoist-style Red Guard. It's possible to un-program them from this, but it's going to take some courage and uncomfortable honesty about how they are destroying prominent institutions despite all their intellectual and moral pretense/hubris and degrees and letters after their names.)

[GOATcards]

"As a man of faith, I believe in atonement and the path to forgiveness," Sarver said in a statement Wednesday. "I expected that the commissioner's one-year suspension would provide the time for me to focus, make amends and remove my personal controversy from the teams that I and so many fans love.

"But in our current unforgiving climate, it has become painfully clear that that is no longer possible -- that whatever good I have done, or could still do, is outweighed by things I have said in the past. For those reasons, I am beginning the process of seeking buyers for the Suns and Mercury."

We can't forget, Sarver is the victim here. What a piece of work. I'm a happier fan today.

Try again, only be more empathetic and fair this time. What part of "current unforgiving climate" is hard to parse?

[2010GBPackers]

After hearing the Sarver news, I expected this thread to be a complete sh!tshow. To my surprise, it's been the most enlightening part of my day. Great posts.

[TheFrenzy]

"As a man of faith, I believe in atonement and the path to forgiveness," Sarver said in a statement Wednesday. "I expected that the commissioner's one-year suspension would provide the time for me to focus, make amends and remove my personal controversy from the teams that I and so many fans love.

"But in our current unforgiving climate, it has become painfully clear that that is no longer possible -- that whatever good I have done, or could still do, is outweighed by things I have said in the past. For those reasons, I am beginning the process of seeking buyers for the Suns and Mercury."

We can't forget, Sarver is the victim here. What a piece of work. I'm a happier fan today.

I think a "...there's a drive into deep left field by Castellanos" joke would have worked better.

[TheFrenzy]

[BEWARE: political content lol]

Same thing in essence going on at Scientific American (https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/08/21/scientific-american-dedicates-itself-to-politics-not-science-refuses-to-publish-rebuttals-of-their-false-or-misleading-claims/). A real bang-up job this whole "wokeness" thing is doing to the intellectual professions in so short a period of time, huh? The Cultural Revolution must continue at breakneck speed (lest you be a racist).

There isn't even any real controversy or debate going on about this. On one side it's smart honest people in agreement on what a disaster this all is for the republic (unless educational alternatives to the madness are implemented), and on the other side is nonstop Dunning-Kruger cases crying racism at the top of their lungs (they're in a race panic) and canceling anyone who questions them. (Or in the case of Loury & McWhorter (https://www.google.com/search?q=loury+mcwhorter), the two black Ivy League professors standing up against all this ideological trash, they are simply ignored (another form of canceling). Ignoring/disrespecting black Ivy League professors is all of a sudden "antiracist," apparently. In fact there's a huge all-of-a-sudden quality about this intellectual clown-show/trainwreck, as it doubles down and comes up with new craziness when the previous craziness gets refuted under even minimal scrutiny. You simply cannot have a rational conversation with people who stubbornly adhere to indefensible notions (https://www.city-journal.org/how-to-be-an-antiracist). [Note that this book review is by a 20-something black intellectual tearing apart the *leading* theorist of this nonsense; you don't even need L&M spending their valuable time on it (although M does (https://www.google.com/search?q=mcwhorter+kendi)).])

(You mention partisanship at the beginning of your post. This isn't mere partisanship; this is in some other category. This is a group of hysterical ideologues pretending to be all morally superior, generating mutual contempt and enmity between them and all those Racists out there. Psychologically they're well-suited for a Maoist-style Red Guard. It's possible to un-program them from this, but it's going to take some courage and uncomfortable honesty about how they are destroying prominent institutions despite all their intellectual and moral pretense/hubris and degrees and letters after their names.)

What's this? Someone else including links and sources for their post?

https://acegif.com/wp-content/uploads/gifs/handshake-2.gif

[NeedChapmans]

This fking guy :doh: even after all of this, this clown is still playing the victim.

Good riddance now let’s see deals get pulled from his real estate company too so he can learn about being humble. Good god

YEA! Then let's fire his employees because that company loses money!

I want blood here, Jcardstore, tell me where and when the next meeting is so we can take down this nasty joke telling, insufferable SOB once and for all!

YEA!

[AbraCalabro]

Could y'all try being less embarrassing for like, one day?

Calling out hypocrisy make you uncomfortable?

[kingofsnake]

Good riddance, Sarver.

[GOATcards]

What's this? Someone else including links and sources for their post?

https://acegif.com/wp-content/uploads/gifs/handshake-2.gif

You should see my philosophy blog, it's nonstop links documenting/justifying my punchy declarations. I don't roll around in the slime like trolls do.

[NeedChapmans]

"As a man of faith, I believe in atonement and the path to forgiveness," Sarver said in a statement Wednesday. "I expected that the commissioner's one-year suspension would provide the time for me to focus, make amends and remove my personal controversy from the teams that I and so many fans love.

"But in our current unforgiving climate, it has become painfully clear that that is no longer possible -- that whatever good I have done, or could still do, is outweighed by things I have said in the past. For those reasons, I am beginning the process of seeking buyers for the Suns and Mercury."

We can't forget, Sarver is the victim here. What a piece of work. I'm a happier fan today.

You're correct in your sarcasm that Sarver is not a victim here.

But that's because this story has no victims.

[rhigh2390]

You're correct in your sarcasm that Sarver is not a victim here.

But that's because this story has no victims.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ap6wcjRyi8HoA/200w.gif?cid=82a1493b0h0wp5rc5ueno3psx5549ledy7vassowsmi2m7z8&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[jcardstore]

YEA! Then let's fire his employees because that company loses money!

I want blood here, Jcardstore, tell me where and when the next meeting is so we can take down this nasty joke telling, insufferable SOB once and for all!

YEA!

You said it, not me. :coffee:

Sorry to rain on your 1st amendment parade. Apparently some people think that means you can just say and do whatever you feel like with no consequences. Free to be a d!ck to whoever you want just cause

At least this brought out peoples true colors

[GOATcards]

You're correct in your sarcasm that Sarver is not a victim here.

But that's because this story has no victims.

Apparently you just don't understand the antiracist/woke MO. To show antiracist bona fides you need to take some obviously un-racist statement, preferably out of context, assume the worst and twist words as necessary to construe the words in their worst possible light, condemn the statement so construed, and swiftly cancel the source of the statement with nothing resembling fair process or dialogue.

That's a completely factual characterization of how these people behave, over and over and over and over and over and over and over, and over and over and over and over and over again (https://www.google.com/search?q=marshawn+over+and+over). (I'll run through these mf'ers face.)

It reminds me of being anti-witch, with a similar amount of rationality involved.

[NeedChapmans]

You said it, not me. :coffee:

Sorry to rain on your 1st amendment parade. Apparently some people think that means you can just say and do whatever you feel like with no consequences. Free to be a d!ck to whoever you want just cause

At least this brought out peoples true colors

J

I'm willing to bet if I had $2M and a year, I could look through your past 20 years and find things equal to or greater than what Sarver is accused of. I say this confidently and believe that you could do the same for most every member of this forum, including me.

On my worst days, I have been insenstive to others and on my best days, I have made jokes that some may find inappropriate depending on the setting, the time or some other variable that I did not consider when I spoke. I'm not saying that all of these things should be forgiven because they are common, but I am saying these things should allow for the opportunity to be forgiven because they are human.

As we discussed earlier, this report does nothing to show mailce, repeated harrassment, action taken as a result of racism, sexism or any other ism. Power was not used to cocerce anyone and the entirety of what was revealed appear to be isolated encounters from different employees. No employee filed any grevience, any lawsuit, any criminal complaint ... with anyone. For better or worse, these were one time insensenstive comments (to some) that didn't seem to matter until the force of the NBA decided they would matter.

TL;DR Robert Sarver is an other to me. And he's an other to you. And I'm someone who truly believes that we should treat others as we would want to be treated. I hope that if/when I am presented with my past, I am afforded the opportunity to be forgiven for it. And I hope you are as well.

[jcardstore]

J

I'm willing to bet if I had $2M and a year, I could look through your past 20 years and find things equal to or greater than what Sarver is accused of. I say this confidently and believe that you could do the same for most every member of this forum, including me.

On my worst days, I have been insenstive to others and on my best days, I have made jokes that some may find inappropriate depending on the setting, the time or some other variable that I did not consider when I spoke. I'm not saying that all of these things should be forgiven because they are common, but I am saying they these things should allow for the opportunity to be forgiven because they are human.

As we discussed earlier, this report does nothing to show mailce, repeated harrassment, action taken as a result of racism, sexism or any other ism. Power was not used to cocerce anyone and the entirety of what was revealed appear to be isolated encounters from different employees. No employee filed any grevience, any lawsuit, any criminal complaint ... with anyone. For better or worse, these were one time insensenstive comments (to some) that didn't seem to matter until the force of the NBA decided they would matter.

TL;DR Robert Sarver is an other to me. And he's an other to you. And I'm someone who truly believes that we should treat others as we would want to be treated. I hope that if/when I am presented with my past, I am afforded the opportunity to be forgiven for it. And I hope you are as well.

YOU don't believe that but it's pretty clear that's not the prevailing view. Like I said before, times have changed. It's not the 80s or 90s where you can be a jerk to your employees.

Of course all of us have said dumb things, lots of them. I probably more than others. Insulting someone at the play ground or on a message board or calling someone dumb or names or whatever isn't even close to this.

None of us are public figures and being a jerk on a message board is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme.

I never said he was racist, I think that's unfounded. Saying the n-word even if repeating someone is just stupid. Saying "well some people can say it why can't I" is also really stupid.

I never even said he was blatantly sexist.

He clearly harassed and belittled his female employees and just conducted himself in a way that way an embarrassment to himself, his team, and the league and for those reasons he needed to go.

He could have taken it like a man and owned up to the fact that he was a jerk and apologized but instead he doubled down and blamed it on everyone else. He didn't learn his lesson and obviously doesn't understand how he acted was simply not acceptable.

[daeve]

Calling out hypocrisy make you uncomfortable?

You clearly don't understand racism so I'm not engaging with you on this - you're on my ignore fyi - but had a feeling this one was to me so I opened. It's rather sad because I thought you did bring some valuable posts in gatekeeping the hobby from the trimmers/grading frauds etc.

[ballhawkdawk]

J

I'm willing to bet if I had $2M and a year, I could look through your past 20 years and find things equal to or greater than what Sarver is accused of. I say this confidently and believe that you could do the same for most every member of this forum, including me.

On my worst days, I have been insenstive to others and on my best days, I have made jokes that some may find inappropriate depending on the setting, the time or some other variable that I did not consider when I spoke. I'm not saying that all of these things should be forgiven because they are common, but I am saying they these things should allow for the opportunity to be forgiven because they are human.

As we discussed earlier, this report does nothing to show mailce, repeated harrassment, action taken as a result of racism, sexism or any other ism. Power was not used to cocerce anyone and the entirety of what was revealed appear to be isolated encounters from different employees. No employee filed any grevience, any lawsuit, any criminal complaint ... with anyone. For better or worse, these were one time insensenstive comments (to some) that didn't seem to matter until the force of the NBA decided they would matter.

TL;DR Robert Sarver is an other to me. And he's an other to you. And I'm someone who truly believes that we should treat others as we would want to be treated. I hope that if/when I am presented with my past, I am afforded the opportunity to be forgiven for it. And I hope you are as well.

There aren't many racist, homophobic, or otherwise unsavory things I haven't said, most of the time only being said as a trigger and not indicative of my true feelings. That said, I've never actually hurt anyone or assaulted anyone, so I have that going for me.

[AbraCalabro]

Apparently you just don't understand the antiracist/woke MO. To show antiracist bona fides you need to take some obviously un-racist statement, preferably out of context, assume the worst and twist words as necessary to construe the words in their worst possible light, condemn the statement so construed, and swiftly cancel the source of the statement with nothing resembling fair process or dialogue.


Excuse me, but what is fair process? What is dialogue? My thought sources never mentioned these. I have no argument, therefore your post sounds racist.

[TheFrenzy]

To show antiracist bona fides you need to take some obviously un-racist statement, preferably out of context, assume the worst and twist words as necessary to construe the words in their worst possible light, condemn the statement so construed, and swiftly cancel the source of the statement with nothing resembling fair process or dialogue.

Looking at things even more broadly, it really feels like there has been a shift over the last decade or so in which communication is now considered an "act of imposition".

Meaning that, to speak is to impose upon the hearer—even hearers one is not speaking to—and therefore one is deeply responsible for their words far beyond context, intent, and meaning. Regardless of how the hearer chooses to interpret those words, the speaker is always at fault.

I realize that there may be some people who think the opposite—that people are only saying more outlandish things today and suffering fewer consequences—but I would argue those exceptions only prove the new rules. Language today carries heavier costs and speakers have less control over their words than ever before.

[AbraCalabro]

You clearly don't understand racism so I'm not engaging with you on this - you're on my ignore fyi - but had a feeling this one was to me so I opened. It's rather sad because I thought you did bring some valuable posts in gatekeeping the hobby from the trimmers/grading frauds etc.

Okay, fine. It's textbook hypocrisy and would be considered racist the other way around. I appreciate your kind words otherwise. Hopefully one day you will remove me from your ignore list. Thanks.

[NeedChapmans]

YOU don't believe that but it's pretty clear that's not the prevailing view. Like I said before, times have changed. It's not the 80s or 90s where you can be a jerk to your employees.

Of course all of us have said dumb things, lots of them. Insulting someone at the play ground or on a message board or calling someone dumb or names or whatever isn't even close to this.

None of us are public figures and being a jerk on a message board is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme.

I never said he was racist, I think that's unfounded. Saying the n-word even if repeating someone is just stupid. Saying "well some people can say it why can't I" is also really stupid.

I never even said he was blatantly sexist.

He clearly harassed and belittled his female employees and just conducted himself in a way that way an embarrassment to himself, his team, and the league and for those reasons he needed to go.

He could have taken it like a man and owned up to the fact that he was a jerk and apologized but instead he doubled down and blamed it on everyone else. He didn't learn his lesson and obviously doesn't understand how he acted was simply not acceptable.

I think you mean I do believe it. And yes, I do. I'm happy to have someone point out to me the repeated harrassment a single employee felt but I did not see that in the report. And I'm confident if it existed, this review would have found it.

Now, you can qualify whatever rules you want here but I'm not talking about public figures. I'm talking about you, me and others at the grocery store. At the bank. At our kids sporting events. At concerts, at work and at the dinner table ... there are plenty of times when things are said that are regrettable. I am no better than Sarver. And I consider the public trial and executition to be well beyond any kind of "lesson" that he may deserve (even in your eyes).

And an LOL to add. That a man like Draymond Green is outspoken on how Sarver needs to lose his team ASAP is absurd. Congrats on not posting a dick pick to Snap Chat for six years Draymond.

[TheFrenzy]

Saying the n-word even if repeating someone is just stupid. Saying "well some people can say it why can't I" is also really stupid.

Where do we actually stand on this? (And no, I'm not lobbying for an N-word pass here.)

I've had students read Mark Twain and other "classic" American authors who have used that word. I realize that Sarver was repeating it out of frustration as opposed to "reciting timeless literature"—but how does that really make a difference?

I recently discussed Jackie Robinson in my class and I actually decided against showing clips from the ESPN Sports Century documentary specifically because it had several White commentators like Larry King repeating that word. I just didn't feel like dealing with any fallout or make students uncomfortable. Was I acting appropriately or being overly sensitive?

As a history teacher, the question of "should we punish people for repeating the words of others" is relevant to what I do every day.

[GOATcards]

J

I'm willing to bet if I had $2M and a year, I could look through your past 20 years and find things equal to or greater than what Sarver is accused of. I say this confidently and believe that you could do the same for most every member of this forum, including me.


"If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."
Cardinal Richelieu

[ballhawkdawk]

Same thing in essence going on at Scientific American (https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2022/08/21/scientific-american-dedicates-itself-to-politics-not-science-refuses-to-publish-rebuttals-of-their-false-or-misleading-claims/). A real bang-up job this whole "wokeness" thing is doing to the intellectual professions in so short a period of time, huh? The Cultural Revolution must continue at breakneck speed (lest you be a racist).

There isn't even any real controversy or debate going on about this. On one side it's smart honest people in agreement on what a disaster this all is for the republic (unless educational alternatives to the madness are implemented), and on the other side is nonstop Dunning-Kruger cases crying racism at the top of their lungs (they're in a race panic) and canceling anyone who questions them. [B](Or in the case of Loury & McWhorter (https://www.google.com/search?q=loury+mcwhorter), the two black Ivy League professors standing up against all this ideological trash, they are simply ignored (another form of canceling). Ignoring/disrespecting black Ivy League professors is all of a sudden "antiracist," apparently. In fact there's a huge all-of-a-sudden quality about this intellectual clown-show/trainwreck, as it doubles down and comes up with new craziness when the previous craziness gets refuted under even minimal scrutiny. You simply cannot have a rational conversation with people who stubbornly adhere to indefensible notions (https://www.city-journal.org/how-to-be-an-antiracist). [Note that this book review is by a 20-something black intellectual tearing apart the *leading* theorist of this nonsense; you don't even need L&M spending their valuable time on it (although M does (https://www.google.com/search?q=mcwhorter+kendi)).])

(You mention partisanship at the beginning of your post. This isn't mere partisanship; this is in some other category. This is a group of hysterical ideologues pretending to be all morally superior, generating mutual contempt and enmity between them and all those Racists out there. Psychologically they're well-suited for a Maoist-style Red Guard. It's possible to un-program them from this, but it's going to take some courage and uncomfortable honesty about how they are destroying prominent institutions despite all their intellectual and moral pretense/hubris and degrees and letters after their names.)
This isn't a political thread / forum, so I'll keep this somewhat vague, but... when a lot of this started (you know what I mean) I decided it was worth my while to do some honest research. So I did, and those are two of the guys I spent a lot of time listening to as part of my research. I listened without having any idea of what type of content I was going to hear.
Coleman Hughes is another, plus a handful of others I've spent less time listening to. Ta-Nehisi Coates is a worthwhile listen that provides some opposing views. All very insightful and respectful, unlike the kind of garbage you find in the mainstream. Unfortunately, a lot of the mainstream stuff is counterproductive for intended beneficiaries IMO.

[NeedChapmans]

Where do we actually stand on this? (And no, I'm not lobbying for an N-word pass here.)

I've had students read Mark Twain and other "classic" American authors who have used that word. I realize that Sarver was repeating it out of frustration as opposed to "reciting timeless literature"—but how does that really make a difference?

I recently discussed Jackie Robinson in my class and I actually decided against showing clips from the ESPN Sports Century documentary specifically because it had several White commentators like Larry King repeating that word. I just didn't feel like dealing with any fallout or make students uncomfortable. Was I acting appropriately or being overly sensitive?

As a history teacher, the question of "should we punish people for repeating the words of others" is relevant to what I do every day.

This is unfortunate and the effect. I cannot speak to whether or not those clips were valuable in what you were trying to accomplish but if they were valuable, I believe you've answered your own question.

[rustywest]

I think you mean I do believe it. And yes, I do. I'm happy to have someone point out to me the repeated harrassment a single employee felt but I did not see that in the report. And I'm confident if it existed, this review would have found it.

Now, you can qualify whatever rules you want here but I'm not talking about public figures. I'm talking about you, me and others at the grocery store. At the bank. At our kids sporting events. At concerts, at work and at the dinner table ... there are plenty of times when things are said that are regrettable. I am no better than Sarver. And I consider the public trial and executition to be well beyond any kind of "lesson" that he may deserve (even in your eyes).

And an LOL to add. That a man like Draymond Green is outspoken on how Sarver needs to lose his team ASAP is absurd. Congrats on not posting a dick pick to Snap Chat for six years Draymond.

I'm with you here, despite my disagreements regarding how you appraise my fav player. You make alot of good sense that will fly over his head because he cannot lose an exchange. Jcardstores is a hypocritical fool and the irony in his replies to your first post is hilarious.

The weight of cancel culture wins at the present time

[jcardstore]

Where do we actually stand on this? (And no, I'm not lobbying for an N-word pass here.)

I've had students read Mark Twain and other "classic" American authors who have used that word. I realize that Sarver was repeating it out of frustration as opposed to "reciting timeless literature"—but how does that really make a difference?

I recently discussed Jackie Robinson in my class and I actually decided against showing clips from the ESPN Sports Century documentary specifically because it had several White commentators like Larry King repeating that word. I just didn't feel like dealing with any fallout or make students uncomfortable. Was I acting appropriately or being overly sensitive?

As a history teacher, the question of "should we punish people for repeating the words of others" is relevant to what I do every day.

There's an ugly history with the word and white people should never say it, for any reason, even if repeating someone or quoting someone else. That's just the way it should be.

I just don't get why it's so tough for people to accept that it's just not ok to say for any reason at any time.

Personally I think that was not the biggest issue with this report and he's just dumb for saying it. He should know better.

I think you were definitely right to side with caution. I don't think it would be fair to punish someone for playing a clip with someone else saying it but I could see how it would cause controversy

[GOATcards]

This isn't a political thread / forum, so I'll keep this somewhat vague, but... when a lot of this started (you know what I mean) I decided it was worth my while to do some honest research. So I did, and those are two of the guys I spent a lot of time listening to as part of my research. I listened without having any idea of what type of content I was going to hear.
Coleman Hughes is another, plus a handful of others I've spent less time listening to. Ta-Nehisi Coates is a worthwhile listen that provides some opposing views. All very insightful and respectful, unlike the kind of garbage you find in the mainstream. Unfortunately, a lot of the mainstream stuff is counterproductive for intended beneficiaries IMO.

Coleman Hughes is the aforementioned twenty-something. As for black intellectuals on the Left, the only one that comes to mind whom I find endearing is Cornel West (as long as he defers to the expertise of a Milton Friedman or other Nobel laureates in economics). As for TNC, I don't exactly have the best impressions, but at least he wouldn't be called a lightweight as L&M refer to Kendi (McWhorter - "I don't find him brilliant" - more politely so than Loury).

[jcardstore]

I think you mean I do believe it. And yes, I do. I'm happy to have someone point out to me the repeated harrassment a single employee felt but I did not see that in the report. And I'm confident if it existed, this review would have found it.

Now, you can qualify whatever rules you want here but I'm not talking about public figures. I'm talking about you, me and others at the grocery store. At the bank. At our kids sporting events. At concerts, at work and at the dinner table ... there are plenty of times when things are said that are regrettable. I am no better than Sarver. And I consider the public trial and executition to be well beyond any kind of "lesson" that he may deserve (even in your eyes).

And an LOL to add. That a man like Draymond Green is outspoken on how Sarver needs to lose his team ASAP is absurd. Congrats on not posting a dick pick to Snap Chat for six years Draymond.

I sure hope you treat your employees better than Sarver did. I just don't understand why it's so tough to understand that public figures, business leaders, etc... should be held to a higher standard.

If you want to harass soccer moms at your kids games or yell at people in the grocery store? Go for it, you're just a jerk.

Certainly I'm sure I said offensive things when I was a teenager, I'm sure everybody did but I would never, ever treat any colleague, team member, or employee like that. Half the crap people say on here they would never say in public anyways. I sure as hell hope not.

When you say regrettable and offensive things, do you just keep doing it because "muh free speech"?

Again, calling someone an idiot on blowout is much different than calling your team member an idiot because they couldn't figure something out. Can you not see that?

[NeedChapmans]

I sure hope you treat your employees better than Sarver did. I just don't understand why it's so tough to understand that public figures, business leaders, etc... should be held to a higher standard.

If you want to harass soccer moms at your kids games or yell at people in the grocery store? Go for it, you're just a jerk.

Certainly I'm sure I said offensive things when I was a teenager, I'm sure everybody did but I would never, ever treat any colleague, team member, or employee like that. Half the crap people say on here they would never say in public anyways. I sure as hell hope not.

Again, calling someone an idiot on blowout is much different than calling your team member an idiot because they couldn't figure something out. Can you not see that?

You're correct if I harass soccer moms and yell at someone in the grocery store, I'm just a jerk. That is not and should not be punishable in the ways that it has now become punishable. Because we're all jerks at times.

But you're incorrect about holding public figures to a higher standard. I hold no one to any standard except for myself. My standard is always the highest, and it's reserved only for me. So while I may not have called someone an idiot at work, over 20 years, I'm more than likely to have offended someone in the moment for something. And more than likely to have done it more than once.

So no. I do not see the difference between me and Sarver.

[jcardstore]

You're correct if I harass soccer moms and yell at someone in the grocery store, I'm just a jerk. That is not and should not be punishable in the ways that it has now become punishable. Because we're all jerks at times.

But you're incorrect about holding public figures to a higher standard. I hold no one to any standard except for myself. My standard is always the highest, and it's reserved only for me. So while I may not have called someone an idiot at work, over 20 years, I'm more than likely to have offended someone in the moment for something. And more than likely to have done it more than once.

So no. I do not see the difference between me and Sarver.

So we should just let anyone say whatever they want with no consequence?

How should it be punishable?

Society has clearly deemed this type of behavior unacceptable whether anyone likes it or not. If you've offended someone, and they bring it to your attention, is it really that tough to apologize and reflect and change your behavior towards them? That's all people are asking for

By the way, I'm not saying you should hold a public figure to a higher standard than yourself, that's silly. I'm saying society as a whole should hold public figures to a higher standard than some random dude off the street.

[NeedChapmans]

So we should just let anyone say whatever they want with no consequence?

How should it be punishable?

Society has clearly deemed this type of behavior unacceptable whether anyone likes it or not.

By the way, I'm not saying you should hold a public figure to a higher standard than yourself, that's silly. I'm saying society as a whole should hold public figures to a higher standard than some random dude off the street.

No. Different standards for different people creates inequality. Everyone (within reason) should play by the same rules.

And to your point about what we should let others say ... you are not judge and jury here (and neither am I). I was under the impression that when I say something stupid, the person to whom I say it to is the one that I need to make ammends to. That's where it is supposed to end.

Forgiveness.

[rustywest]

Look in the mirror at yourself before you leap to pile in on somebody you never met

[jcardstore]

No. Different standards for different people creates inequality. Everyone (within reason) should play by the same rules.

And to your point about what we should let others say ... you are not judge and jury here (and neither am I). I was under the impression that when I say something stupid, the person to whom I say it to is the one that I need to make ammends to. That's where it is supposed to end.

Forgiveness.

Well I think again we just fundamentally disagree about this. And you know what, I respect your opinion.

I’d buy you a beer anytime and we could yell at each other :cry:

[NeedChapmans]

Well I think again we just fundamentally disagree about this. And you know what, I respect your opinion.

I’d buy you a beer anytime and we could yell at each other :cry:

I would happily let you buy me a beer. It's a deal.

[Asian62150]

No. Different standards for different people creates inequality. Everyone (within reason) should play by the same rules.

And to your point about what we should let others say ... you are not judge and jury here (and neither am I). I was under the impression that when I say something stupid, the person to whom I say it to is the one that I need to make ammends to. That's where it is supposed to end.

Forgiveness.

I'm all for forgiveness and 2nd chances, but has Sarver really asked for it from the people he offended? And has he shown any change? When the report first came out, he denied everything and basically said the report was full of lies. That's not asking for forgiveness.

According to Baxter Holmes, the people Sarver said these things to felt incredibly offended and insulted. They even felt uncomfortable/afraid just going to the HR department to report these incidents mainly because of the toxic culture Sarver created.

If Sarver showed some humility and genuine remorse and showed real change, that's one thing. But him denying everything and now playing the victim...I'm glad he's gonna be out.

[NeedChapmans]

I'm all for forgiveness and 2nd chances, but has Sarver really asked for it from the people he offended? And has he shown any change? When the report first came out, he denied everything and basically said the report was full of lies. That's not asking for forgiveness.

According to Baxter Holmes, the people Sarver said these things to felt incredibly offended and insulted. They even felt uncomfortable/afraid just going to the HR department to report these incidents mainly because of the toxic culture Sarver created.

If Sarver showed some humility and genuine remorse and showed real change, that's one thing. But him denying everything and now playing the victim...I'm glad he's gonna be out.

The bolded does not hold logically. There is no IF in forgiveness. (unless you rearrange the letters :D)

"Jennifer, I'm really sorry for what I said a few years ago. My intention was not to hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable and I really value you as an employee here and hope you'll stick around and forgive me for my poor behavior. If you give me another chance, I promise I'll do better".

Are you suggesting that if Sarver had said the above to those he offended after this report was shown, people would not be calling for his head and/or the situation would not have played out the same?

I think we both know this was going to happen no matter what Sarver said or didn't say afterward. Growth and forgiveness come from within, not because of public pressure.

[RogerGodahell]

If black people or anyone else is offended by someone repeating the N word when quoting someone else and not being used directly toward them or as a 1st person derogatory remark then they shouldn't use the word either. That would solve this stupidness. How about no one gets to use the word? If you don't want people saying it then stop saying it yourself.

[rhigh2390]

If black people or anyone else is offended by someone repeating the N word when quoting someone else and not being used directly toward them or as a 1st person derogatory remark then they shouldn't use the word either. That would solve this stupidness. How about no one gets to use the word? If you don't want people saying it then stop saying it yourself.

This would make the most sense.

[Zedlaw]

No. Different standards for different people creates inequality. Everyone (within reason) should play by the same rules.

And to your point about what we should let others say ... you are not judge and jury here (and neither am I). I was under the impression that when I say something stupid, the person to whom I say it to is the one that I need to make ammends to. That's where it is supposed to end.

Forgiveness.

I agree, same standard for everyone. If someone is a jerk to me at a grocery store I'm not going to be excited to root for their basketball team either. But I'm just one person, if this someone is a jerk to enough people, stories compound and now more people will be unexcited to root for their basketball team. Standards haven't changed and they're the same for everyone. Power dynamics have changed.

[Asian62150]

The bolded does not hold logically. There is no IF in forgiveness. (unless you rearrange the letters :D)

"Jennifer, I'm really sorry for what I said a few years ago. My intention was not to hurt you or make you feel uncomfortable and I really value you as an employee here and hope you'll stick around and forgive me for my poor behavior. If you give me another chance, I promise I'll do better".

Are you suggesting that if Sarver had said the above to those he offended after this report was shown, people would not be calling for his head and/or the situation would not have played out the same?

I think we both know this was going to happen no matter what Sarver said or didn't say afterward. Growth and forgiveness come from within, not because of public pressure.

You mentioned that the people we offend are the ones we need to make amends to. I agree. But have you heard of a single instance where Sarver made amends to one of the people he offended with decades of racist and sexist behavior?

Instead, you have Baxter Holmes' sources within the Suns organization telling him they thought Sarver should have been punished more severely. And other execs saying, "Nothing you could tell me about [Sarver] from a misogynistic or race standpoint would surprise me."

[Blazed]

This seems appropriate here. Think about who stands to gain from the hate and division in the country right now.....

https://iili.io/im3L7f.md.jpg

[ballhawkdawk]

Coleman Hughes is the aforementioned twenty-something. As for black intellectuals on the Left, the only one that comes to mind whom I find endearing is Cornel West (as long as he defers to the expertise of a Milton Friedman or other Nobel laureates in economics). As for TNC, I don't exactly have the best impressions, but at least he wouldn't be called a lightweight as L&M refer to Kendi (McWhorter - "I don't find him brilliant" - more politely so than Loury).

Agreed on TNC… I just find his perspectives interesting, or at least what I’ve heard. I don’t have to agree with something to appreciate. Like I can respect your Jokic love even though he’s the second best center in the game.

And I prefer Loury’s style for that reason. He pulls no punches. Sometimes he’s too smart for me, though.

[NeedChapmans]

You mentioned that the people we offend are the ones we need to make amends to. I agree. But have you heard of a single instance where Sarver made amends to one of the people he offended with decades of racist and sexist behavior?

I'm not supposed to. (And I'm not even sure Sarver is allowed to speak to those people during his supension, IDK).

[ninjacookies]

Whatever happened to culpability and the art of understanding your environment?

Jock talk is fine in the locker room. Feel free to spout like a jackass in a corporate environment. Just know that there can be severe consequences if it's discovered or you're reported, regardless of skintone or financial stature. /omghi2uHR

I'm sure JWill's casually slipped a few cordial N's when lacing up with the homies down in Pompano back in the day. But even he knows you don't go full Jody Highroller at a royal wedding. And he's the darkest white chocolate in basketbol history.


READ THE ROOM.

[Asian62150]

I'm not supposed to. (And I'm not even sure Sarver is allowed to speak to those people during his supension, IDK).

??? Does he have to wait until after his suspension to make things right?

He had 18 years to make amends before the report came out.

He had 9 months to make amends between the report coming out and the suspension being announced.

Again, I hope he changes and makes things right with those he harmed.

Not hating on you, Chaps, just disagree. Like jcard, happy to take you out for a drink and chat sometime though.

[Blazed]

Whatever happened to culpability and the art of understanding your environment?

Jock talk is fine in the locker room. Feel free to spout like a jackass in a corporate environment. Just know that there can be severe consequences if it's discovered or you're reported, regardless of skintone or financial stature. /omghi2uHR

I'm sure JWill's casually slipped a few cordial N's when lacing up with the homies down in Pompano back in the day. But even he knows you don't go full Jody Highroller at a royal wedding. And he's the darkest white chocolate in basketbol history.


READ THE ROOM.

Wrong. Only one skin tone faces consequences when it comes to racism.

It's not about reading the room either. Biden has said some pretty racist things that if #45 said the exact same thing he would have been crucified. It's all about how the media frames it or how much they push it and that's a fact.

Everyone also needs to understand that racism is for the poor and middle classes to keep them fighting against each other. Because if you keep the poor people divided they can't wake up long enough to figure out how money really works and how they're all getting fleeced by the government. Hate and division = big money for the media, politicians and activists.

Can't have the people unite can we. Because the government knows if people united and saw what was really going on behind the curtain the gov. would be screwed.

So carry on and argue about "racism", but do you think when a black billionaire meets a white billionaire there's any racism? F no. Racism is all by design, made to keep the poor people off balance.

[ninjacookies]

Wrong. Only one skin tone faces consequences when it comes to racism.

It's not about reading the room either. Biden has said some pretty racist things that if #45 said the exact same thing he would have been crucified. It's all about how the media frames it or how much they push it and that's a fact.

Everyone also needs to understand that racism is for the poor and middle classes to keep them fighting against each other. Because if you keep the poor people divided they can't wake up long enough to figure out how money really works and how they're all getting fleeced by the government. Hate and division = big money for the media, politicians and activists.

Can't have the people unite can we. Because the government knows if people united and saw what was really going on behind the curtain the gov. would be screwed.

So carry on and argue about "racism", but do you think when a black billionaire meets a white billionaire there's any racism? F no. Racism is all by design, made to keep the poor people off balance.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif

I'm too lactose tolerant to be gas lighted, bruh.

[Siberian13]

You can say any word you want. Sometimes there are consequences.

Stop being scared of words. That would help the most. They are just words.

[Noles939913]

Whatever happened to culpability and the art of understanding your environment?

Jock talk is fine in the locker room. Feel free to spout like a jackass in a corporate environment. Just know that there can be severe consequences if it's discovered or you're reported, regardless of skintone or financial stature. /omghi2uHR

I'm sure JWill's casually slipped a few cordial N's when lacing up with the homies down in Pompano back in the day. But even he knows you don't go full Jody Highroller at a royal wedding. And he's the darkest white chocolate in basketbol history.


READ THE ROOM.

One thing I always found weird about “the word” is that Fat Joe, Big Pun, Cuban Link, etc. were always allowed to say it with impunity even though they obviously weren’t black. Whereas Jennifer Lopez caught flack for it even though she is of the same ethnicity as the aforementioned and Ja Rule was on the song where she said it and even wrote all the lyrics.

[Siberian13]

One thing I always found weird about “the word” is that Fat Joe, Big Pun, Cuban Link, etc. were always allowed to say it with impunity even though they obviously weren’t black. Whereas Jennifer Lopez caught flack for it even though she is of the same ethnicity as the aforementioned and Ja Rule was on the song where she said it and even wrote all the lyrics.

You have to be ok with robbing people but not murdering them to join the club. The first crime is ok :)!