Settle a bet

[Kingofkings1281]

Who is the better all time team?

Team 1

PG-Magic Johnson
SG- Michael Jordan
SF- Larry Bird
PF- Tim Duncan
C-Shaq

Reserves

PG- Jason Kidd
SG- T-Mac
SF- Scottie Pippen
PF- KG
C- Hakeem


Team 2

PG- Steph Curry
SG- Kobe
SF- LeBron
PF- Giannis
C- Kareem

Reserves

PG- Steve Nash
SG- Ray Allen
SF- Devin Booker
PF- KD
C- Bill Russell

[rogueriver]

Team 1 and it is not even close

[mc1]

Team 1

100% true

not even close

100% false

[oldgoldy97]

Why Devin Booker?

[pcptrade]

Any team with MJ>>>Any team with Lewhatever. I have a feeling that this thread will eventually morph into MJ vs Lebron.

[Kingofkings1281]

Any team with MJ>>>Any team with Lewhatever. I have a feeling that this thread will eventually morph into MJ vs Lebron.

I’m hoping to avoid that. But…

[pcptrade]

I’m hoping to avoid that. But this is BO…

FTFY. I am assuming that is what you were also thinking;):)

[rats60]

Where is the GOAT Wilt Chamberlain? He would make either team the best.

PG Oscar Robertson
SG Jerry West
SF Elgin Baylor
PF Karl Malone
C Wilt Chamberlain

Reserves
PG Isiah Thomas
SG John Havlicek
SF Dr J
PF Charles Barkley
C Moses Malone

This team beats either one.

To answer the question, team 1 wins, but both teams have their flaws. Team 1 is playing Larry Bird out of position. He was all defense as a PF, but struggles to guard SF. LeBron lights him up. Team 1 isn't starting their best center. Hakeem is better defensively and could limit Kareem. So team 2 exploits those 2 positions.

Team 2 has no PG. Curry can't guard anyone on team 1, so his position scores at will. Team 2 has a weaker bench. The starters can score enough to keep it close, but the second team makes the difference. If there was a close game, team 1 has 2 of the 3 most clutch players of all time in Bird and Jordan.

[fidrych]

Great question. IMHO, I would certainly lean towards team ! (my era :)), but...

If its a half court game with no three point line, team one goes 90's basketball and beats you up in the half court----unfortunately in a wide open game you need spacers (Steph, Ray and KD). Team one doesnt have that or should I say enough of that.

Ill take a buch of threes over a bunch of twos---especially with Shaq's liability at FT line.

Team 2 for me.

[BostonNut]

I’ll take team 1. Mental toughness is a thing.

[Kingofkings1281]

Where is the GOAT Wilt Chamberlain? He would make either team the best.

PG Oscar Robertson
SG Jerry West
SF Elgin Baylor
PF Karl Malone
C Wilt Chamberlain

Reserves
PG Isiah Thomas
SG John Havlicek
SF Dr J
PF Charles Barkley
C Moses Malone

This team beats either one.

To answer the question, team 1 wins, but both teams have their flaws. Team 1 is playing Larry Bird out of position. He was all defense as a PF, but struggles to guard SF. LeBron lights him up. Team 1 isn't starting their best center. Hakeem is better defensively and could limit Kareem. So team 2 exploits those 2 positions.

Team 2 has no PG. Curry can't guard anyone on team 1, so his position scores at will. Team 2 has a weaker bench. The starters can score enough to keep it close, but the second team makes the difference. If there was a close game, team 1 has 2 of the 3 most clutch players of all time in Bird and Jordan.

Highly unpopular opinion. But Hakeem was a better player than Wilt.

[oldgoldy97]

I’ll take team 1. Mental toughness is a thing.

We know someone who needs to work on that.

[rats60]

Highly unpopular opinion. But Hakeem was a better player than Wilt.

Not even close. Hakeem wishes he was as good as Moses Malone. Hakeem was better than Shaq though.

[fabiani12333]

Curry, Booker, Giannis, LeBron and KD would wipe the floor with team 1. They're all modern players. The game has changed and players are more skilled and athletic. The rules are different. Shaq can't just stand under the basket. MJ can't hip check Curry. Duncan would have to guard the 3-point line. Bird wouldn't be able to keep pace with more athletic players.

[asujbl]

Shaq would absolutely body KAJ and Russell

Duncan would fundamentally destroy Giannis

I don’t even care about the other guys people want to argue about

[oldgoldy97]

Are you winning the bet?

[Kingofkings1281]

Are you winning the bet?

Yeah, I think it’s safe to say I got the bill at this point.

[Kingofkings1281]

Not even close. Hakeem wishes he was as good as Moses Malone. Hakeem was better than Shaq though.

Come on, man. Moses was great, but he’s not on Hakeem’s level.

[smalltown]

Where is the GOAT Wilt Chamberlain? He would make either team the best.

PG Oscar Robertson
SG Jerry West
SF Elgin Baylor
PF Karl Malone
C Wilt Chamberlain

Reserves
PG Isiah Thomas
SG John Havlicek
SF Dr J
PF Charles Barkley
C Moses Malone

This team beats either one.

I'd take this team too. But i'd sub Dennis Rodman for Karl Malone. The defensive versatility would be more useful than Malone's points.

[Harper]

Curry, Booker, Giannis, LeBron and KD would wipe the floor with team 1. They're all modern players. The game has changed and players are more skilled and athletic. The rules are different. Shaq can't just stand under the basket. MJ can't hip check Curry. Duncan would have to guard the 3-point line. Bird wouldn't be able to keep pace with more athletic players.

If we are playing based off todays defensive rules, jordan, bird, and Shaq are scoring like 50 points a game. Team 1 would fouls out team 2s starters by halftime.

[GOATcards]

team 2 has less depth in booker but more depth in Russell, this is all such a tough call, I guess having MJ Duncan and Magic is the tie-breaker as long as they have 3 action in Larry?

[GOATcards]

Who is the better all time team?

Team 1

PG-Magic Johnson
SG- Michael Jordan
SF- Larry Bird
PF- Tim Duncan
C-Shaq

Reserves

PG- Jason Kidd
SG- T-Mac
SF- Scottie Pippen
PF- KG
C- Hakeem


Team 2

PG- Steph Curry
SG- Kobe
SF- LeBron
PF- Giannis
C- Kareem

Reserves

PG- Steve Nash
SG- Ray Allen
SF- Devin Booker
PF- KD
C- Bill Russell

17 finals MVPs among the team 1 starters, 10 for the team 2 starters. Among the team reserves you have 2 finals MVPs each between Hakeem and KD (under asterisky circumstances both of them IMHO) and then Russell is some kind of game-changer reserves-wise, like the finals mvp award is named after him, right? (What's the award that's named after MJ now?) Crediting Russell with 7 hypothetical finals MVPs makes it 19 finals MVPs on each side? And then 2-time regular season MVP in Nash on the same team with Booker as against Pippen and Kidd (not an MVP but pretty good), still seems like a wash. Now who outlasts KG on the other side value-wise? Does it come down to that, or the value of the starters mostly? You're going to go up against Mike, Magic, Larry and Timmy in crunch time, when death is on the line? (Cue Vizzini from Princess Bride.) Well, not a bad place to start with Russell, you sure you're going to demote him to backup Center rather than like starting PF over Giannis? Then with Bron Steph and Kobe and probably Kareem outplaying Shaq a tad, it's close, again it's close, but did I mention Mike, Magic, Larry and Timmy on the other side?

I guess I gotta go with team 1. Wait, how many hypothetical Finals MVPs does Russell have again? It's a lot. 19 finals mvps vs. 19 Finals mvps? Damn. :confused: Well, okay, so Russell's counts for a bit less than Bron/Steph's given era differences right, and since those 2 count for a bit more and they're on team 2, well, then, shee-yit. This is a good one. Did I mention 17 Finals MVPs on the front-line of team 1?

lotsa award share with team 1, huh

[Frog]

Any team with MJ>>>Any team with Lewhatever. I have a feeling that this thread will eventually morph into MJ vs Lebron.

Is this intentional irony?

[fabiani12333]

If we are playing based off todays defensive rules, jordan, bird, and Shaq are scoring like 50 points a game. Team 1 would fouls out team 2s starters by halftime.

The best players of the modern NBA are the best fitted and adapted to the current style of play. If you take great players from other eras, they would have to adapt. MJ obviously could. But guys like Shaq would not be as good.

[fabiani12333]

This isn't a debate about greatness. Team 1 is greater than team 2. If you're playing under current conditions with the rule differences and the advancement of the game, the best current players should theoretically be the best suited to play under those conditions.

Guys like MJ would adapt. Certain guys would get exposed. Certain guys would need to do a full training rework. The burden is on the older players to adapt.

I wouldn't automatically think Ted Williams or Babe Ruth would be just as good in the modern MLB. Just like I wouldn't think Jim Brown or Jerry Rice would be just as good in the modern NFL.

[oldgoldy97]

But which ones would juice?

[rats60]

Come on, man. Moses was great, but he’s not on Hakeem’s level.

Moses Malone is so disrespected. He is a 3 time MVP and he beat out prime Kareem, Dr. J, Bird and Magic for those awards. In the 83 Finals he dominated Kareem averaging 26/18 in a 4-0 sweep. In his prime he was better than Hakeem.

[ninjacookies]

Team uno.

Don't overthink this.

[Zedlaw]

Any team with Curry as a third or fourth option isn’t losing

[oldgoldy97]

Any team with Curry as a third or fourth option isn’t losing

Let’s talk about 2016 :coffee:

[oldgoldy97]

Love this is public.

[6celtics33]

Team 1 has 6 of the best 9 players in the poll. I agree with the starters but team 1 also has versatility. For example they could go on a defensive lockdown run fueled by a lineup of

Kidd Jordan Scottie kg/Duncan either one and Hakeem. That’s defensive insanity.

[Zedlaw]

Let’s talk about 2016 :coffee:

You’re comfortable calling Curry a third option on that team? Curry was also pretty banged up that playoff run

[oldgoldy97]

You’re comfortable calling Curry a third option on that team? Curry was also pretty banged up that playoff run

So if he’s a first or second then losing is possible but not a third option?



Any team with MJ, Magic and Bird isn’t losing to anyone. Unless they’re “banged up” :rolleyes:

[GOATcards]

This isn't a debate about greatness. Team 1 is greater than team 2. If you're playing under current conditions with the rule differences and the advancement of the game, the best current players should theoretically be the best suited to play under those conditions.

Guys like MJ would adapt. Certain guys would get exposed. Certain guys would need to do a full training rework. The burden is on the older players to adapt.

I wouldn't automatically think Ted Williams or Babe Ruth would be just as good in the modern MLB. Just like I wouldn't think Jim Brown or Jerry Rice would be just as good in the modern NFL.

Aside from Mike Trout, would there be better players than Williams/Ruth brought to today?

[fabiani12333]

Aside from Mike Trout, would there be better players than Williams/Ruth brought to today?

I think Barry Bonds would dominate any era. He would have to embrace analytics, though.

[SDcardguy24]

Definitely the team that has Shaq

[BGT Masters]

Moses Malone is so disrespected. He is a 3 time MVP and he beat out prime Kareem, Dr. J, Bird and Magic for those awards. In the 83 Finals he dominated Kareem averaging 26/18 in a 4-0 sweep. In his prime he was better than Hakeem.

https://media.tenor.com/OchlxxMwxTgAAAAd/laughing-laugh.gif

[Zedlaw]

So if he’s a first or second then losing is possible but not a third option?



Any team with MJ, Magic and Bird isn’t losing to anyone. Unless they’re “banged up” :rolleyes:

Yes, that is the idea. Shots get easier down the pecking order. Bird and Curry would both be overqualified to be running around screens and playing off ball on the perimeter, but I feel like Curry would fit that role dramatically and significantly better than anyone.

[BGT Masters]

Team one is far more superior defensively.

[GOATcards]

Team one is far more superior defensively.

except in their 2nd team which is also very impressive defensively, it's part of what makes it a close call on the whole

but you're going to go in against MJ, Magic, Larry, and Timmy (and Shaq) when death is on the line, final answer?

Crunch time, your PG has an option to pass for or take a 3 pointer, in one case the PG is Magic with option to pass to Larry for 3 or to the Greatest Scorer Ever for 2 or 3, or to Timmy or Shaq in the post. The other PG is Steph who might be looking to take a 3 off dribble or pass but otherwise has in scoring options one of the Greatest Scorers ever in Kobe (and also an all-time great scoring leader in Kareem, as against Shaq who in his prime is an all-time great scorer).

(And how are we comparing these two teams, in each player's primes? Is that part of the subject of the wager? I say that MVP Award Share captures that concept pretty darn well for the most part.)

Anyway, crunch time, you need a three to take the lead, your shooter is either Larry or Steph, to get two for the tie you have as scoring option one Michael Jeffrey Jordan, 10-time scoring champ and noted clutch scorer), and the other team's next best scoring options are Kobe and Bron and death is on the line, go. Final answer.

[Arianny_Fan]

Team 1. Magic in his younger days was magical!

[GOATcards]

team 1 finals mvps

mj - 6
Magic - 3
Tim - 3
Shaq - 3
Larry - 2
Hakeem - 2

team 2 finals mvps

russell - 7 hypothetical
Bron - 4
kobe - 2
kareem - 2
kd - 2
curry - 1
giannis - 1

so to reframe, you're basically going with MJ, Magic, Tim, Shaq, and Larry with an additional hypothetical 2 Finals MVPs for MJ that would further emphasize the MJ weighting on this team (finals MVPs that would stay on team 1 with Hakeem in the reserves anyway...)

up against

Russell, Bron, Kobe, Kareem, KD

We're basically talking in effect a 7-time-at-least Finals MVP in MJ assuming he doesn't retire from basketball the first time. Among the more modern players with actual Finals MVPs that's still some distance from Bron's 4. MJ's Bulls never had to go 7 games in a Finals, in a larger league than in Russell's day mind you, Bron famously blew a shot at a winnable 5th title in 2011. Duncan was within a game-7 small margin of defeat from going 6-0 in the Finals with the Spurs. Magic was also a winning machine, etc. And that's even before getting to Larry Legend and (prime-)Shaq.

I haven't done a full MVP Shares counting of the two teams. Keep in mind the nearly 2 years of mid-career retirement for MJ in those comparisons. The presumptive GOAT plus winning machines in their primes? I mean goodness, do you bet against that with death on the line?

[corndog]

Highly unpopular opinion. But Hakeem was a better player than Wilt.

Hakeem was also better than Shaq.

[sethc1020]

I went team 1 because of the starting 5, team 2s starting 5 isn't far off but they have a much better bench IMO

[minnesotachill]

Lebron was a freak of nature in his prime.

You put him with Kobe, Giannis, and Curry and I'd have a hard time seeing anyone beat that team.

[hauntedcomputer]

This isn't a debate about greatness. Team 1 is greater than team 2. If you're playing under current conditions with the rule differences and the advancement of the game, the best current players should theoretically be the best suited to play under those conditions.

Guys like MJ would adapt. Certain guys would get exposed. Certain guys would need to do a full training rework. The burden is on the older players to adapt.

I wouldn't automatically think Ted Williams or Babe Ruth would be just as good in the modern MLB. Just like I wouldn't think Jim Brown or Jerry Rice would be just as good in the modern NFL.

This guy gets it.
Nuance is everything in these discussions.
Do you transplant older guys to this era or take modern players back to the past? Do you account for the ways these guys' development and training would have differed based on how the game has/had changed?
If you're not doing that, your opinion isn't even worth reading.
Me, I have opinions but they're not worth reading.

[smalltown]

Moses Malone is so disrespected. He is a 3 time MVP and he beat out prime Kareem, Dr. J, Bird and Magic for those awards. In the 83 Finals he dominated Kareem averaging 26/18 in a 4-0 sweep. In his prime he was better than Hakeem.

100% this. Malone was an absolute beast.