Curry vs KANG - Who Has the Better Legacy

[imbluestreak23]

Enough with the MJ debates, 4 in 20 (3 teams) pales in comparison to 6 in 13 or 15 however you look at it. Longevity stats vs peak, give me peak. MJ smoked some cigs, swung some bats, road some bikes and came back to threepeat looking completely different than the first go around.

But, brewing is an interesting debate that is not getting much attention. I brought it up last year, Stephanie getting ring #4 is far more impressive than what LeBron has done in his career, jumping from team to team, situation to situation, taking advantage of offensive freedom of offensive movement as refs swallow their whistles in today's era. IMO Stephs accomplishments already have surpassed what Bron has done. This is a minority opinion, but mine nonetheless. I already think he is the greatest PG of all time, what many talking heads are saying, but how does he stack up to KANG!?

1) Whom has the best legacy today, Curry vs KANG?
2) Assuming Curry earns a 5th ring surpassing KANG, and KANG never earns another, does that change your view of whose legacy is better?

[mfw13]

Enough with the MJ debates, 4 in 20 (3 teams) pales in comparison to 6 in 13 or 15 however you look at it. Longevity stats vs peak, give me peak. MJ smoked some cigs, swung some bats, road some bikes and came back to threepeat looking completely different than the first go around.

But, brewing is an interesting debate that is not getting much attention. I brought it up last year, Stephanie getting ring #4 is far more impressive than what LeBron has done in his career, jumping from team to team, situation to situation, taking advantage of offensive freedom of offensive movement as refs swallow their whistles in today's era. IMO Stephs accomplishments already have surpassed what Bron has done. This is a minority opinion, but mine nonetheless. I already think he is the greatest PG of all time, what many talking heads are saying, but how does he stack up to KANG!?

1) Whom has the best legacy today, Curry vs KANG?
2) Assuming Curry earns a 5th ring surpassing KANG, and KANG never earns another, does that change your view of whose legacy is better?

Who is KANG?

[TheFrenzy]

Who is KANG?

https://media3.giphy.com/media/pD48T1BJWrWVsQb18Z/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952il21j4g5kmolmwb19ekr306bh60pt3skjdbnfqzi&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

[imbluestreak23]

The one and only.

Take a knee, Dilly Dilly.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tBzoX7YzKV4/maxresdefault.jpg

https://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/lebron-james-crown.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BZCB8yMSkWI/maxresdefault.jpg

https://sportshub.cbsistatic.com/i/r/2023/04/10/a8804d27-8130-4791-b13e-52884eac9bf8/thumbnail/1200x675/45cb93d79eb5e68f82277d1c91f1f2d9/040923-lebronjames.jpg

[sportzluvr1]

Kang? Idk about that one. Seems a little disrespectful haha

[blockedbyjames]

It's a nice discussion, but already settled no matter what happens going forward.

They both changed basketball forever, but Le's got 10 straight finals appearances and half those teams were as LeBum as you could imagine.

[mfw13]

Enough with the MJ debates, 4 in 20 (3 teams) pales in comparison to 6 in 13 or 15 however you look at it. Longevity stats vs peak, give me peak. MJ smoked some cigs, swung some bats, road some bikes and came back to threepeat looking completely different than the first go around.

But, brewing is an interesting debate that is not getting much attention. I brought it up last year, Stephanie getting ring #4 is far more impressive than what LeBron has done in his career, jumping from team to team, situation to situation, taking advantage of offensive freedom of offensive movement as refs swallow their whistles in today's era. IMO Stephs accomplishments already have surpassed what Bron has done. This is a minority opinion, but mine nonetheless. I already think he is the greatest PG of all time, what many talking heads are saying, but how does he stack up to KANG!?

1) Whom has the best legacy today, Curry vs KANG?
2) Assuming Curry earns a 5th ring surpassing KANG, and KANG never earns another, does that change your view of whose legacy is better?

Curry, for the simple reason that he changed the game more with his shooting, and played his entire career with one team.

LeBron will always be looked down on for building/jumping to super-teams.

[indyguy]

Those look like he is trying to take a picture from a POV of above his head.

This is the most work I'll ever do on a photoshop for LeBron

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52862128335_d1dc9b4bf4.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oxfe4M)

And the answer is Curry.

[tjforce]

Who is KANG?

Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/aa70c8c637ce2ccb39a0dd7c0e4a9e13/bf892a8089bd37b4-63/s500x750/1f555edfcb6a453a57e290bb47c8bbb51961c80b.gif

[phdbeckett]

Curry, for the simple reason that he changed the game more with his shooting, and played his entire career with one team.

LeBron will always be looked down on for building/jumping to super-teams.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DcEAAOSwWSZfyVLa/s-l1600.jpg

[GOATcards]

Enough with the MJ debates, 4 in 20 (3 teams) pales in comparison to 6 in 13 or 15 however you look at it. Longevity stats vs peak, give me peak. MJ smoked some cigs, swung some bats, road some bikes and came back to threepeat looking completely different than the first go around.

But, brewing is an interesting debate that is not getting much attention. I brought it up last year, Stephanie getting ring #4 is far more impressive than what LeBron has done in his career, jumping from team to team, situation to situation, taking advantage of offensive freedom of offensive movement as refs swallow their whistles in today's era. IMO Stephs accomplishments already have surpassed what Bron has done. This is a minority opinion, but mine nonetheless. I already think he is the greatest PG of all time, what many talking heads are saying, but how does he stack up to KANG!?

1) Whom has the best legacy today, Curry vs KANG?
2) Assuming Curry earns a 5th ring surpassing KANG, and KANG never earns another, does that change your view of whose legacy is better?

the moment of truth was the 2016 Finals. Curry couldn't afford bad luck like Dray's suspension or Bogut's injury. So he brought in the god and won two chips easily while the god was healthy. Then when the god goes down in the subsequent Finals, they lose.

If the god had teamed up with Bron instead, the '17 and '18 Finals would have looked way different. Only a pee stain of a human would deny that.

Bill James of Basketball would never stoop to such silly gerrymandered BS. Curry's arguably a top 10 player whereas Bron is top 3-4 all time.

Basketball is of course a team sport, so speaking of a single player "earning a ring" is part of the un-Bill-James-like gerrymandering, like it's being put out there as a test of what utter crap we're willing to take into consideration.

[jjcan]

Well Kang has been around since the the 1960s, so he has been around. I mean since the dawn of time the guy has different versions of himself.

Chef Curry has not even been in a comic ball series or Space Jam, so really no debate.

Kang has been around, he beats the FF4, the Avengers all day long.:p Now maybe Curry vs Dr. Doom, maybe.

[imbluestreak23]

That's a good point, KANG Bron is a modern marvel character, and Stephanie gets to follow weird Megan Rapinoe to somehow revive Subway. Score +1 for the Kingdom there.

[GOATcards]

sure, yeah, pretend that the guy with 2.7 career award shares and a Finals MVP is on the same or higher level than the guy with 8.8 shares and 4 Finals MVPs, let's gerrymander up the best-sounding comparison somehow

[GOATcards]

suppose you switch out the franchises they were drafted from. you know, try to neutralize things in the analysis as much as you can to account for context.

suppose the cavs draft talent on the level of dray and klay, and curry gets to play with the likes of ilgauskas and mo williams.

steph could be counted on to stick with the cavs and the poor/non-championship-level support, yes?

certain bron-nut-punching dbags say that both: bron should win rings to prove his greatness, and that he should stick it out in CLE with non-ring-level support. they are awful people that one shouldn't bother, with one's valuable time, trying to reason with

[KhalDrogo]

Hard to argue against Curry if he wins another title this year.

[jjcan]

Hard to argue against Curry if he wins another title this year.

If Curry beats Kang next series. Then he probably could beat Thanos with the infinity gauntlet.

So he then beats Super KD orSuper Jokic and the East Universe (green lanterns and justice 76s) is pretty tough.

So yeah if he wins his 5th, He probably has All cosmic power.

[GOATcards]

Enough with the MJ debates, 4 in 20 (3 teams) pales in comparison to 6 in 13 or 15 however you look at it. Longevity stats vs peak, give me peak. MJ smoked some cigs, swung some bats, road some bikes and came back to threepeat looking completely different than the first go around.


MJ benefited from some circumstances, not entirely within his control, that lifted him from mere ECFinalist to 6-time champion.

People may have noticed that I've not gone hard at Bron on that count. Find a franchise/teammate that Bron ever had that's comparable to the CHI/Pippen situation for MJ. (Let's do give due credit to MJ for however much better a player he made Scottie than if he went elsewhere.)

One of my heuristics (maybe I should list all my heuristics out, and goat-rank-order them etc.) is to imagine their situations switched, so that MJ is in comparable circumstances. Do we have comparables for Bron for what the Bad Boy Pistons, Magic Lakers and Larry Celtics (and Clyde Blazers and Chuck Suns and Karl Stockton and Reggie Pacers et al) represented competition-wise for MJ?

One thing we do know for a certainty is that MVP voters have held these two players in roughly comparable esteem over their careers for their regular-season performances. As for postseason performances, we've had Bron-led teams going to 10 Finals with 4 wins in this era, vis a vis the 6-in-6 in the '90s. Finals-MVPs-wise, we've got MJ 6 and Bron 4, and no one else has more than three Bill Russell Finals MVP trophies. Curry has one of those. For his regular-season performances, Curry has garnered MVP-voter attention over his career comparable to the likes of KG, Joker after this year's vote, Giannis already, KD, Hakeem, Moses Malone. Top 20 players. Bron's MVP-voter-support is in the top 2 (top 2 in average per prime season anyway).

The comparison there seems more interesting than a Bron-Steph comparison. And Steph is awesome.


But, brewing is an interesting debate that is not getting much attention. I brought it up last year, Stephanie getting ring #4 is far more impressive than what LeBron has done in his career, jumping from team to team, situation to situation, taking advantage of offensive freedom of offensive movement as refs swallow their whistles in today's era.


seriously?

you don't need to denigrate Bron in such a shoddy fashion (that's my nicer way of putting it) in order to make a case for Steph's greatness which also speaks for itself.

On the biggest stage, in championship finals situations, Bron has been (named/awarded) the most valuable player on the court 4 times in his career. Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Kareem, Larry, none of those got as many.

I suppose if you subtract one of those FMVPs for the 2011 no-show, then you're down to 3 FMVPs. You wanna open up the subtraction/adjustment can of worms and see where all that goes? maybe Duncan-Russell are co-GOATs or something, who knows

It simply cannot be overlooked in this conversation how Curry won 2 of his 4 rings, and really 3 of those rings when you get down to it. 2 rings won alongside a player so damn good and awesome in his own right that this other player got the FMVP each time. That's the Steph Curry you're going to name in preference to the 4-time Finals MVP? And a third ring was earned by the GSW over CLE with Kyrie and KLove out. Credit to the Warriors for superior injury-avoidance but that was a team thing; how can Bron possibly reasonably be assigned a burden of keeping Kyrie and KLove healthy full-time? And Andre Iguodala was voted FMVP that series. Explain that one, hot shot.

Kudos to Steph for being so instrumental to 4 rings and being the standout leader on 1 of them. I have him in like a 2-way tie for 10th all time or somethin'

LeBron is a 4-time Finals MVP, with one LeChoke which gives him officially 3 Finals MVP trophies (but going down this adjustment-wormhole, consider what he did in the '15, '17, and '18 playoffs, and without the official finals MVP as his teammate, so kinda crediting those appearances half-way-ish, we get officially like 4.5-ish Finals MVPs for LeBron, Curry officially was more like co-FinalsMVP with the god a couple times, so officially he comes up to like 2.5 Finals MVPs-ish.


IMO Stephs accomplishments already have surpassed what Bron has done. This is a minority opinion, but mine nonetheless. I already think he is the greatest PG of all time, what many talking heads are saying, but how does he stack up to KANG!?


Steph vs. Magic Johnson as all-time first-team PG is going to revolve around era. Anyway what accounts for Magic's 5.whatever awards shares and officially 3-ish FMVPs, he must have been doing something right (incl. beating out prime mj for 2 reg.season mvps)


1) Whom has the best legacy today, Curry vs KANG?
2) Assuming Curry earns a 5th ring surpassing KANG, and KANG never earns another, does that change your view of whose legacy is better?

if ring-counting is all that it comes down to, then robert horry is one of the goat candidates. come on, dude, you know this

whereas when it comes down to Bron vs. MJ, my biggest eye-test-ish argument against Bron is the Shaqtin' reel/documentary, 'cause otherwise it looks like he did about the best a player could do in this era in terms of contribution to championship-winning. His playoff/postseason VORP is over 30 compared to Steph's 12-ish (and the god's 14-ish)? C'mon, get serious.

officially it's 3.6 or so Finals MVPs for Bron, still higher than Steph's official total of 2.4 trophies

[imbluestreak23]

GOATcards has spoken!

[Braswell10]

I don’t think Curry can do anything to pass LeBron. The rings w/ KD were as free as you can get in modern sports. If not for KD it’s possible Lebron and the Cavs were set up to win another 2 rings.

Curry as of now is probably around 10th all time. If he wins this one, does he even pass Tim Duncan?

[6celtics33]

Lebron > Curry. That’s silly. But Steph gets points for his impact on the game.

I don’t and won’t have Steph in my top 10. But I was the other day trying to come up with my top 10 favorite cards and I narrowed it to like 27. I had 27 in my top 10. I think that’s kind of what we are doing here. Top 10 or 5 becomes this level to get to and more and more as time goes by there will be added players who achieve that. But I don’t see any reason to separate Steph above any existing top 10 players.

Steph v Kobe is a good debate I think. Not Lebron.

But whoever said Lebron went to 10 straight finals and half the teams were garbage. That’s not correct.

[boxbuster7]

Hard to argue against Curry if he wins another title this year.

I agree with this. If curry gets another ring this year that is 5 in 9 years. He is starting to make a legit case as the GOAT.

If he doesn't win a ring this year, I'd say he is still a tier under lebron/jordan

[blockedbyjames]

Lebron > Curry. That’s silly. But Steph gets points for his impact on the game.

I don’t and won’t have Steph in my top 10. But I was the other day trying to come up with my top 10 favorite cards and I narrowed it to like 27. I had 27 in my top 10. I think that’s kind of what we are doing here. Top 10 or 5 becomes this level to get to and more and more as time goes by there will be added players who achieve that. But I don’t see any reason to separate Steph above any existing top 10 players.

Steph v Kobe is a good debate I think. Not Lebron.

But whoever said Lebron went to 10 straight finals and half the teams were garbage. That’s not correct.

That was me.

Heat - great
Heat - great
Heat - great
Heat - great
Lakers - pretty dang good
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - really bad

[GOATcards]

But whoever said Lebron went to 10 straight finals and half the teams were garbage. That’s not correct.

the 17/18 Cavs were garbage compared to the Steph-god pairing
:D

[GOATcards]

That was me.

Heat - great
Heat - great
Heat - great
Heat - great
Lakers - pretty dang good
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - really bad

2016 Cavs were not a bad team ffs lol

[hermanotarjeta]

Head to head in the finals, curry is 3-1 against Bron.

15-7 in individual finals games.

[6celtics33]

That was me.

Heat - great
Heat - great
Heat - great
Heat - great
Lakers - pretty dang good
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - bad
Cavs - really bad

So you think a team with Lebron Kyrie and love in an east with no real challenger is bad. I simply disagree.

[6celtics33]

the 17/18 Cavs were garbage compared to the Steph-god pairing
:D

Yeah compared to that. But not compared to whatever else was in the east.

[GOATcards]

Head to head in the finals, curry is 3-1 against Bron.

15-7 in individual finals games.

who were the Finals MVPs in those 4 series

we'll wait

[hermanotarjeta]

who were the Finals MVPs in those 4 series

we'll wait

Andre Iguodala, Durant x 2, Bron.

Are you implying Iguodala is as great as Steph because they both have one finals MVP?

Steph is homegrown and makes his teammates better. His teammates have as many rings as Lebron.

Lebron needs to hop superteams and pad his stats to garner accolades. Unfortunately he’s still a loser in the finals he’s appeared in 4-6.

Who was finals MVP in the finals that Lebron has lost?

I’m waiting.

[Braswell10]

Head to head in the finals, curry is 3-1 against Bron.

15-7 in individual finals games.

Yeah because it was Lebron vs Steph in those finals appearances…

[bloodwings19]

I used to like Nike because of MJ, with Lebum, I haven't bought Nike basketball stuff in a long time. No need to support a logo that endorses souped up teams (Lebron, Durant), or have ghetto behavior Morant. When Curry retires, little kids will cry. When Lebron retires, we will see Jordan crying emojis.

[BGT Masters]

Lebron > Curry. That’s silly. But Steph gets points for his impact on the game.

I don’t and won’t have Steph in my top 10. But I was the other day trying to come up with my top 10 favorite cards and I narrowed it to like 27. I had 27 in my top 10. I think that’s kind of what we are doing here. Top 10 or 5 becomes this level to get to and more and more as time goes by there will be added players who achieve that. But I don’t see any reason to separate Steph above any existing top 10 players.

Steph v Kobe is a good debate I think. Not Lebron.

But whoever said Lebron went to 10 straight finals and half the teams were garbage. That’s not correct.

Kobe vs Steph is no debate. Only because Steph doesn't play defense. He can never be in the top ten because of that in my opinion.

[eastbayak]

Kobe vs Steph is no debate. Only because Steph doesn't play defense. He can never be in the top ten because of that in my opinion.

Curry is already in the top 10 whereas Kobe doesn't even make the cut.

But that's not just an opinion, it's a fact.

[boxbuster7]

Curry is already in the top 10 whereas Kobe doesn't even make the cut.

But that's not just an opinion, it's a fact.

People leaving Steph out of the top 10 all time is just comically bad. I mean it isn't even a debate anymore.

[ballhawkdawk]

Kobe vs Steph is no debate. Only because Steph doesn't play defense. He can never be in the top ten because of that in my opinion.

Your top 10, so it's your rules. Steph most certainly plays defense. He's just not great at it. But for the sake of argument, if his net impact is top 10, then why does it matter how he gets there? There are plenty of guys that have a more balanced game that aren't on Steph's level. Take CP3, for example... 9x All Defense and plays the same position as Steph. He's also a better passer. Who do you rank higher here?

[JeremyNick]

I already have Curry over Bron.

[JoshMN]

Curry, Bron, and Kobe are all in my top 10. I’m a big tent kinda guy when it comes to the top 10 tho. I probably got 30-35 guys on my list.

[eastbayak]

People leaving Steph out of the top 10 all time is just comically bad. I mean it isn't even a debate anymore.

Agreed.

And he’s not done yet!

[BGT Masters]

If we pretend like there was no basketball prior to Curry joining the league he is certainly top ten. "Fact."

Kobe was All NBA Offense and Defense I believe 27 total times.

I understand its an opinion but if Kobe and Curry both played on opposite teams with the same exact rosters and somehow played against each other and were forced to guard each other I would rather have Kobe all day every day.

I cannot stand Lebron and I would rather have him over Curry with everything equal. Curry is an amazing offensive player but like I mentioned unless you act like basketball didn't exist prior to 2010 he just isn't top ten material to me. Its easier to excel on offense when the team can't and doesn't rely on you to play any defense.

[JoshMN]

Nobody ever actually lists their top 10 on BO. That’s the best part about arguing about top 10s here. You can just be like “yeah- he’s in my top 10” and no one really calls you out if you have 14 or 15 guys on your list.

Or you can be like “nah man- only MJ was top 10” even though he’s just one player and it’s supposed to be a list of 10.

[PSA2Pac]

Hard to argue against Curry if he wins another title this year.

This

Especially if he disposes of Lebron/Lakers in the process


I respect Brons legacy but Wardell is HIM

[Makakilo Cards]

It's like Kobe/Duncan again isn't it? Difference is Duncan didn't care, Steph might.

[pingbling23]

I agree with this. If curry gets another ring this year that is 5 in 9 years. He is starting to make a legit case as the GOAT.

If he doesn't win a ring this year, I'd say he is still a tier under lebron/jordan

Why is klay and draymond not in the running for goat? They have the same titles.

[ballhawkdawk]

If we pretend like there was no basketball prior to Curry joining the league he is certainly top ten. "Fact."

Kobe was All NBA Offense and Defense I believe 27 total times.

I understand its an opinion but if Kobe and Curry both played on opposite teams with the same exact rosters and somehow played against each other and were forced to guard each other I would rather have Kobe all day every day.

I cannot stand Lebron and I would rather have him over Curry with everything equal. Curry is an amazing offensive player but like I mentioned unless you act like basketball didn't exist prior to 2010 he just isn't top ten material to me. Its easier to excel on offense when the team can't and doesn't rely on you to play any defense.

I think we're dismissing the greatness of Steph Curry a bit. Put Kobe in Curry's place for game 7 against Sacramento and I think Sacramento rolls. Kobe couldn't torch a defense like that. There are levels to this game.

Regarding your analogy, make Curry and Shawn Bradley play 1v1 and I'm taking Shawn Bradley. But that's not how basketball is played in the NBA. It's a team game, and Curry's ability to operate within a team, his gravity, and his leadership are all second to none attributes IMO.

[MFaulkCollector]

While people keep trying to say... "Curry didn't do this, Curry didn't do that"... they are missing the bigger picture. Curry, unlike any other superstar scorer.... is easy to play with.

Curry before Durant....... 2 Time MVP and Champion

Curry with Durant...... Continues to play in the system and does what is needed to win, makes sure Durant is happy and falls into place where he is needed most within the team structure

Curry after Durant...... Leads an aging Green and Shell of himself Klay to another title and gets the finals MVP everyone is so worried about.

Basketball is a team game and greatness is reflected both in how you fit into the team structure and individual greatness. Kobe keeps being brought up. In a vacuum Kobe should be the better player........... but Kobe was the ultimate "ME" player. He needed his at all costs even to the detriment of his teammates..... he bellyached and moaned to the Lakers about being traded before they were able to get Artest/Gasol/etc who made the team a contender once again

I'll always take the player like Curry/Duncan.......... someone who constantly wants to figure out how they can best help the team win, how they can mesh with the players that are there, what they can do to help the front office. The intangibles brought by these guys are the foundation of a team I'd personally like to build around. For what Curry lacks in defensive skill he makes up for in intangibles for what Duncan lacked in being able to take over a game scoring, he made up for in intangibles.

Curry is in my Top 10, one spot ahead of Duncan on the list and both are ahead of Kobe. It becomes excessively difficult to move Curry much higher than 6-7 no matter what happens.... 5 rings, 6 rings.......... because it will come down to comparing resumes; and the lack of MVPs/MVP shares/Finals MVPs will matter.

I just get a kick out of the fact that people try to put Curry down for one of the attributes that makes him a great team basketball player

[BGT Masters]

I think we're dismissing the greatness of Steph Curry a bit. Put Kobe in Curry's place for game 7 against Sacramento and I think Sacramento rolls. Kobe couldn't torch a defense like that. There are levels to this game.

Regarding your analogy, make Curry and Shawn Bradley play 1v1 and I'm taking Shawn Bradley. But that's not how basketball is played in the NBA. It's a team game, and Curry's ability to operate within a team, his gravity, and his leadership are all second to none attributes IMO.

I never said 1 on 1 and you used a very extreme example. Honestly though I think Curry takes Bradley 1 on 1. I think some people are overrating Curry. For however better offensively Curry is to Kobe (if he even is) Kobe defensively is so superior its ridiculous. Kobe can and has torched defenses. He may not have relied on shooting 15 3's a game to do it but he was more than capable.

Seems like the hobby and a good portion of this current generation gets a hard on for anyone who still has room for pumping. That or they have short attention spans, selective memories and can't remember the players of yesteryear. What else am I supposed to think when you say swap Curry out for Kobe and the Kings roll. The loss in offense is negligible and you gain an all time elite defender.

Though I'll admit shooting the ball 40 times to get 50 points is right up Kobe's alley.

[rats60]

I have LeBron at #3 and Curry at #20. It really isn't close. LeBron is a complete player. Curry is a great shooter who plays no defense.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52472052381_30f67f72fc_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/2nWLZ5i)

[rats60]

Nobody ever actually lists their top 10 on BO. That’s the best part about arguing about top 10s here. You can just be like “yeah- he’s in my top 10” and no one really calls you out if you have 14 or 15 guys on your list.

Or you can be like “nah man- only MJ was top 10” even though he’s just one player and it’s supposed to be a list of 10.

Not true

Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Oscar Robertson
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan

[Asian62150]

If I'm starting a team from scratch, I'm taking LeBron over Curry.

For me to find a player that can do stuff similar to Curry (but obviously not as well) is a lot easier than finding anyone that matches what LeBron can do.

Bron is top 5 (along with MJ, Russell, Magic, KAJ) and Curry is probably in that top 12-15 range.

[Zedlaw]

1)
Jordan
Kareem
Lebron

4)
Russell
Wilt

6)
Bird
Magic
Duncan

9)
Curry
Shaq

11)
Hakeem
Kobe

13)
Moses
DRob
Erving
Robertson

17)
Giannis
Garnett
KD
Barkley
West
Dirk

23)
Elgin
IT
Malone
Stockton
Jokic

28)
Wade
Pippen
Kawhi

31)
Kidd
Barry
Ewing
Nash

35)
Harden
Paul
AI

38)
Havlicek
Cousy
Mikan
Pettit

I have no idea how to rank this group, they could probably be sprinkled in higher

42)
Frazier
Reed
Gervin
Hayes
Drexler
Monroe
Dominique

49)
Rodman
McHale
Worthy
Unseld
Cowens
Embiid

I think those are the fifty-ish most important players in NBA history. Curry can still realistically climb into the top 6 six tier.

[tjforce]

I have LeBron at #3 and Curry at #20. It really isn't close. LeBron is a complete player. Curry is a great shooter who plays no defense.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52472052381_30f67f72fc_o.png (https://flic.kr/p/2nWLZ5i)


Thank you for pointing out that Curry was a part of one of the greatest moments in NBA history.

I'm glad I got to witness it live at Oracle that day.

[eastbayak]

Thank you for pointing out that Curry was a part of one of the greatest moments in NBA history.

I'm glad I got to witness it live at Oracle that day.

Crazy to know that Curry/Dubs would've been 6-0 in NBA Finals if it weren't for:

(1) Bogut injury + Green Suspension + Iguodala hurt back in the 2015-16 Finals
(2) KD/Klay/Looney injury in 2018-19 Finals (shoutout to Looney for playing through a fractured collarbone)

[drobfan8]

If I'm starting a team from scratch, I'm taking LeBron over Curry.

For me to find a player that can do stuff similar to Curry (but obviously not as well) is a lot easier than finding anyone that matches what LeBron can do.

Bron is top 5 (along with MJ, Russell, Magic, KAJ) and Curry is probably in that top 12-15 range.

If you draft LeBron over Curry you only get LeBron for a max 7 years though and you better stack your squad. He's never stayed with a temm longer than 7. And that stint was 0 titles.

Curry you get him for his full career. No drama. Excellent leadership.

[Chris P]

Crazy to know that Curry/Dubs would've been 6-0 in NBA Finals if it weren't for:

(1) Bogut injury + Green Suspension + Iguodala hurt back in the 2015-16 Finals
(2) KD/Klay/Looney injury in 2018-19 Finals (shoutout to Looney for playing through a fractured collarbone)

There's a bunch of things that could be altered though if the Warriors win the 15/16 title. I don't think KD goes there if they win in 15/16. The backlash would've been much much worse and we've seen how he handles criticism. Now I'm also in the opinion that the Warriors could've still won those titles without him..it would've been a lot more even series but still think they could've done it.

[Hellcat]

Not true

Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Oscar Robertson
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Solid list I don't agree with the order but the players on it.

[GOATcards]

Why is klay and draymond not in the running for goat? They have the same titles.

no answer on that one.

where's the CurryOverLebron member from a while ago, we need more of that vibe

[pcptrade]

Lebron- 4 Titles, 4 MVP's, 4 FMVP's, 19 All-Star
Curry- 4 Titles, 2 MVP's, 1 FMVP's, 9 All-Star

I love Steph but he has to win two more rings without an alpha like KD to enter the top 5 in my opinion. Lebron is already in the top 5 in most rankings by experts (non-BO).

[GOATcards]

Not true

Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Oscar Robertson
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan

3 of the top 10 had their primes in the '60s, must have been a magical decade, nicely balanced by the 3 players with primes in the last quarter century

[GOATcards]

Crazy to know that Curry/Dubs would've been 6-0 in NBA Finals if it weren't for:

(1) Bogut injury + Green Suspension + Iguodala hurt back in the 2015-16 Finals
(2) KD/Klay/Looney injury in 2018-19 Finals (shoutout to Looney for playing through a fractured collarbone)

mj/bulls would win 10 finals straight if it weren't for

[GOATcards]

If you draft LeBron over Curry you only get LeBron for a max 7 years though and you better stack your squad. He's never stayed with a tram longer than 7. And that stint was 0 titles.

Curry you get him for his full career. No drama. Excellent leadership.

apparently the rebuttals to this line of "argument" haven't been sardonic enough

[GOATcards]

if it weren't for Kyrie and KLove missing out in '15, and if it weren't for KD coming to the Warriors, then how many titles "would Steph win"

GSW going over cap and paying luxury tax should tell you all you need to know about Curry's support environment. the curry-for-goat crowd are nucking futs

[Stifle]

Refs swallowing the whistle ? That still has me rolling on the ground. Stop it, please.

When Wilt had equal talent around him like Jordan did, his teams were regarded as the best ever.

[GOATcards]

how on earth does anyone make an argument that Bron gets discredit for team-hopping but no discredit to Steph for KD hopping to his team after they failed to overcome Bron's team. I could see the anti-team-hopping argument being used in GOAT debates against Bron, but for a Bron-Curry debate? ridiculous, f'ing ridiculous

[GOATcards]

Solid list I don't agree with the order but the players on it.

he's taking Oscar over a 3-time Finals MVP with over 4 award shares? okay

[AwesomeBrian]

The question is about each players 'legacy'.

I was gonna make a nice long list of Lebron stuff, but part of the way through I got bored. Mostly because it's filled with so many memorable things he did wrong. How he treated teammates in Cleveland, what he said about fans, the Decision, his flopping, his love of the camera, the unnecessary drama that he creates, team jumping, the constant whining, the tantrum from this year. So you see where that was going. It's almost as if his on court performance is overshadowed by every thing he put himself front and center for.

With Curry, what do you think of off the floor with him? Holding his daughter at press conferences? Getting a few techs for throwing his mouthpiece?

Both have titles, both are great at certain things. Curry has the cleaner overall legacy and it's not really close. He's more likable, way more humble and more fun to watch

[GOATcards]

Lebron- 4 Titles, 4 MVP's, 4 FMVP's, 19 All-Star
Curry- 4 Titles, 2 MVP's, 2 FMVP's, 9 All-Star

I love Steph but he has to win two more rings without an alpha like KD to enter the top 5 in my opinion. Lebron is already in the top 5 in most rankings by experts (non-BO).

curry has one FMVP, for 2022.

if he's in the top 10, which he might very well be after all the necessary adjustments (he is playing in the most competitive era so far, after all, and he's 2nd only to Bron in achievements in this era), he'd be the only one in the top 10 without 2 or more FMVPs (since those were voted on, anyway).

with other top-10 players, you can say things like "he led team x to multiple championships". One might usually think that means getting Finals MVP numerous times. With Steph you have to gerrymander definitions to get there. He led - with KD - the Warriors to 2 titles? Without KD it's doubtful they get those titles. (Guess what happens when KD goes down against the Raptors.) Now what.

I'd make room in the top 10 for a player who doesn't meet the "multiple finals MVP" standard, but that means you can have a player in the top 10 who's like that, not that we need to gerrymander and exaggerate his achievements in order to get him into the top 10 like so many dbags seem to want to do at the expense of common sense/sanity/honesty.

Take Curry over Kobe on your team? You have to do some pretty dishonest maneuvering to get there, I would think. You have to come up with some plausible case for how voters kept getting it wrong to the point that Kobe ends up with over 4 Award Shares (not to mention the multiple Finals MVPs).

fact of the matter is, GSW had trouble beating a healthy Bron/CLE team and curry-pumpers don't seem interested in facing up to that fair and square. Blame injuries for '16? They get to do that while ignoring the injuries in other years ('15, '19) that would diminish the curry-pump? Nope, not in my house.

[eastbayak]

Lebron- 4 Titles, 4 MVP's, 4 FMVP's, 19 All-Star
Curry- 4 Titles, 2 MVP's, 2 FMVP's, 9 All-Star

I love Steph but he has to win two more rings without an alpha like KD to enter the top 5 in my opinion. Lebron is already in the top 5 in most rankings by experts (non-BO).

I love LeBron but he has to win two more rings without an alpha like Wade....

I love Magic but he won rings with teammates like Kareem/Worthy/etc....

I love MJ but he played on a stacked team due to Pippen's team-friendly contract (remember, the 93-94 Bulls without MJ went 55-27 in the regular season, went 7 games and lost in the semifinals to a team that went 7 games in the Finals and barely lost)....

You can almost discredit anyone's championships except a few (e.g., Dirk's championship was impressive, though he had a solid team).

On a separate note, Curry only has 1 NBA Finals MVPs (can't really count the WC Finals MVP since the Conference Finals MVP is new) at the moment (he should have 2-3 though, but it is what it is).

[GOATcards]

The question is about each players 'legacy'.

I was gonna make a nice long list of Lebron stuff, but part of the way through I got bored. Mostly because it's filled with so many memorable things he did wrong. How he treated teammates in Cleveland, what he said about fans, the Decision, his flopping, his love of the camera, the unnecessary drama that he creates, team jumping, the constant whining, the tantrum from this year. So you see where that was going. It's almost as if his on court performance is overshadowed by every thing he put himself front and center for.

With Curry, what do you think of off the floor with him? Holding his daughter at press conferences? Getting a few techs for throwing his mouthpiece?

Both have titles, both are great at certain things. Curry has the cleaner overall legacy and it's not really close. He's more likable, way more humble and more fun to watch

i'd say they're both fun to watch and I couldn't really set them apart in that regard.

the other things you mention against Bron's legacy are the sort of things people tend to bring up in GOAT debates, like if we're going to put his resume up against mainly MJ's (or Russell's, or Duncan's, players with much award share and finals success). But against Curry? I guess it depends what you're looking for. Humility and likability, I guess it's hard to exceed Curry. Career playoff VORP? No contest, no contest at all.

[JoshMN]

Not true

Wilt Chamberlain
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Oscar Robertson
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan

Solid list. A fair number of people would put Shaq on the list instead of one of those last 3, but you have proved my point. You can't put Curry in the "top 10" unless your list has at least 12 players on it.

[mc1]

Refs swallowing the whistle ? That still has me rolling on the ground. Stop it, please.

When Wilt had equal talent around him like Jordan did, his teams were regarded as the best ever.

2-4 in the Finals

Solid list. A fair number of people would put Shaq on the list instead of one of those last 3, but you have proved my point. You can't put Curry in the "top 10" unless your list has at least 12 players on it.

Top 12-15 then

[GOATcards]

I love LeBron but he has to win two more rings without an alpha like Wade....

I love Magic but he won rings with teammates like Kareem/Worthy/etc....

I love MJ but he played on a stacked team due to Pippen's team-friendly contract (remember, the 93-94 Bulls without MJ went 55-27 in the regular season, went 7 games and lost in the semifinals to a team that went 7 games in the Finals and barely lost)....

You can almost discredit anyone's championships except a few (e.g., Dirk's championship was impressive, though he had a solid team).

On a separate note, Curry only has 1 NBA Finals MVPs (can't really count the WC Finals MVP since the Conference Finals MVP is new) at the moment (he should have 2-3 though, but it is what it is).

Since the Heat collapse in '11 wasn't Dirk's doing, it's hard for folks such as myself to credit him heavily there.

Magic winning rings with Kareem, or Bron winning rings with Wade, are definitely also good points to bring up. How many rings does Magic win if he doesn't get drafted by the Kareem Lakers (obviously not something in his own control)?

Put all the rings (and awards) of all the players in the proper/fullest context, yes indeed.

[GOATcards]

Top 12-15 then

there more than 10 players one could name ahead of Curry? Why would he rank any lower than 11th?

[JoshMN]

Top 12-15 then

Yeah. That's fair. I'm a bit pedantic on the math part. So I can probably roll with "Curry's in my top 15".

Definitely the best shooter ever though.

[JoshMN]

Why would he rank any lower than 11th?

Zero defensive accolades/respect.

Was Scottie Pippen (or Steve Kerr?!?) on 3 of the 4 finals winning teams. No disrespect meant to Scottie.

[pcptrade]

I love LeBron but he has to win two more rings without an alpha like Wade....

I love Magic but he won rings with teammates like Kareem/Worthy/etc....

I love MJ but he played on a stacked team due to Pippen's team-friendly contract (remember, the 93-94 Bulls without MJ went 55-27 in the regular season, went 7 games and lost in the semifinals to a team that went 7 games in the Finals and barely lost)....

You can almost discredit anyone's championships except a few (e.g., Dirk's championship was impressive, though he had a solid team).

On a separate note, Curry only has 1 NBA Finals MVPs (can't really count the WC Finals MVP since the Conference Finals MVP is new) at the moment (he should have 2-3 though, but it is what it is).

MJ, Lebron, Magic are in the top 5 in most rankings while Curry is not there yet despite having the same number of titles as Lebron. If he wins another two rings (and 2 FMVP's) like he did last year without having to recruit an alpha like KD, he has a good chance at cracking the top 5. That was my point.:)

[GOATcards]

Zero defensive accolades/respect.


this is another new a-hole that needs to be torn open

suppose a player is ridiculously good on offense (10/10), only so-so on defense (5/10). some folks will automatically choose the player that's a 7/10 on both offense and defense, because they need both-sides-of-the-ball action that badly?

[Braswell10]

Since we are on this top 10 debate topic, can we just take the time to point out that Tim Duncan has 19 All-Nba defensive teams. That is just crazy to me.

[imbluestreak23]

MJ, Lebron, Magic are in the top 5 in most rankings while Curry is not there yet despite having the same number of titles as Lebron. If he wins another two rings (and 2 FMVP's) like he did last year without having to recruit an alpha like KD, he has a good chance at cracking the top 5. That was my point.:)

Just because they are in most top 5s doesn't mean they actually are/should be.

I don't really value consensus opinion, even if the opinions are from "experts." I do enjoy discussions however where opinions are shared, but it's not like these so called experts have master level analytical minds. Most are likely biased due to personal relationships.

Having said all of that, Magic and Kareem are totally overrated. Both mutually benefited from each other's presence, which is great, but name one other player that played with another equivalently great player. Closest you'll likely find is Kobe & Shaq or KD and Steph. Having two arguable top 5 POAT on one team in Magic and Kareem just diminishes things for me, especially when their roster didn't stop at just those two HOFers

edit: And let me clarify as "overrated" is likely triggering to many. Overrated as in just what it states, overrated. Perhaps top 10-15, not top 5 definitive. Debatable.

[GOATcards]

Just because they are in most top 5s doesn't mean they actually are/should be.

I don't really value consensus opinion, even if the opinions are from "experts." I do enjoy discussions however where opinions are shared, but it's not like these so called experts have master level analytical minds. Most are likely biased due to personal relationships.

Having said all of that, Magic and Kareem are totally overrated. Both mutually benefited from each other's presence, which is great, but name one other player that played with another equivalently great player.

look at what Magic did after Kareem's last good season ('86) then. including 2 rings and 3 MVP wins over MJ

[pcptrade]

Just because they are in most top 5s doesn't mean they actually are/should be.

I don't really value consensus opinion, even if the opinions are from "experts." I do enjoy discussions however where opinions are shared, but it's not like these so called experts have master level analytical minds. Most are likely biased due to personal relationships.

Having said all of that, Magic and Kareem are totally overrated. Both mutually benefited from each other's presence, which is great, but name one other player that played with another equivalently great player. Closest you'll likely find is Kobe & Shaq or KD and Steph. Having two arguable top 5 POAT on one team in Magic and Kareem just diminishes things for me, especially when their roster didn't stop at just those two HOFers

edit: And let me clarify as "overrated" is likely triggering to many. Overrated as in just what it states, overrated. Perhaps top 10-15, not top 5 definitive. Debatable.


Recency bias aside, Rings, MVP's and Final MVP's are all important in my opinion. Lebron has 4/4/4 (12) while Step has 4/2/1 (7). Jordan has 6/5/6 (17). MJ has 11 (MVP and Finals MVP combined), which is the highest since 1969.
FWIW-


https://fadeawayworld.net/ranking-the-nba-players-with-the-most-mvp-awards-and-finals-mvp-awards-combined-michael-jordan-is-the-goat-with-11

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/the-most-accomplished-active-nba-players-rings-mvps-and-finals-mvps-combined

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list

[GOATcards]

Recency bias aside, Rings, MVP's and Final MVP's are all important in my opinion. Lebron has 4/4/4 (12) while Step has 4/2/1 (7). Jordan has 6/5/6 (17), which is the highest!

russell with only 16 :o

[pcptrade]

russell with only 16 :o

Damn, I was in the process of editing. :D

EDIT: Yes, one can argue that Bill Russell is the GOAT if finals MVP award was in existence during his playing years. His total would have been more than 17.

[imbluestreak23]

look at what Magic did after Kareem's last good season ('86) then. including 2 rings and 3 MVP wins over MJ

Dang, I didn't realize MJ was beaten in the Finals by Magic

[imbluestreak23]

Recency bias aside, Rings, MVP's and Final MVP's are all important in my opinion. Lebron has 4/4/4 (12) while Step has 4/2/1 (7). Jordan has 6/5/6 (17). MJ has 11 (MVP and Finals MVP combined), which is the highest!
FWIW-


https://fadeawayworld.net/ranking-the-nba-players-with-the-most-mvp-awards-and-finals-mvp-awards-combined-michael-jordan-is-the-goat-with-11

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba/the-most-accomplished-active-nba-players-rings-mvps-and-finals-mvps-combined

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/33297498/the-nba-75th-anniversary-team-ranked-where-76-basketball-legends-check-our-list

I hear yah, FYI I don't click unknown links. Ain't gettin' my data robbed by big tech, big Bubba, or commie China!

[pcptrade]

I hear yah, FYI I don't click unknown links. Ain't gettin' my data robbed by big tech, big Bubba, or commie China!

Haha, I hear you. I use incognito mode for BO:)!

[GOATcards]

Dang, I didn't realize MJ was beaten in the Finals by Magic

3 MVP wins over MJ

[tjforce]

Crazy to know that Curry/Dubs would've been 6-0 in NBA Finals if it weren't for:

(1) Bogut injury + Green Suspension + Iguodala hurt back in the 2015-16 Finals
(2) KD/Klay/Looney injury in 2018-19 Finals (shoutout to Looney for playing through a fractured collarbone)

Crazy to think that the Dubs could have won no Finals from 2015-2018 if:

-Kyrie and Love dont both get injured in 2015
-KD then doesn’t want to come and win Finals MVP in 2017 and 2018

This game is fun.

[JP333]

It's a nice discussion, but already settled no matter what happens going forward.

They both changed basketball forever, but Le's got 10 straight finals appearances and half those teams were as LeBum as you could imagine.

About as Lebum as the Eastern Conference during that time.

[drobfan8]

Since we are on this top 10 debate topic, can we just take the time to point out that Tim Duncan has 19 All-Nba defensive teams. That is just crazy to me.

Unfortunately nobody cares even though his legacy has been better than both players.

[GOATcards]

Unfortunately nobody cares even though his legacy has been better than both players.

E5Q7CcINC8M

[SVGbreaks]

Crazy to think that the Dubs could have won no Finals from 2015-2018 if:

-Kyrie and Love dont both get injured in 2015
-KD then doesn’t want to come and win Finals MVP in 2017 and 2018

This game is fun.

KD wouldn't have gone to the warriors if they won in 2016. So they definitely would have at least one :D

[mc1]

3 MVP wins over MJ

Plus two rings.

Reading is hard for some people!

[pcptrade]

You can call it recency bias or prisoner of the moment. In today's digital age, people get carried away by one impressive game or season because of the hype on social media and they tend to lose the broader picture.

[rats60]

MJ, Lebron, Magic are in the top 5 in most rankings while Curry is not there yet despite having the same number of titles as Lebron. If he wins another two rings (and 2 FMVP's) like he did last year without having to recruit an alpha like KD, he has a good chance at cracking the top 5. That was my point.:)

Curry has been 1st team all NBA 4 times. It is a joke that people have Curry rated so high. If you can't beat out James Harden and Russell Westbrook for all NBA, you are not an all time great. LeBron 13, MJ 10, Magic 9.

[JoshMN]

Curry has been 1st team all NBA 4 times. It is a joke that people have Curry rated so high. If you can't beat out James Harden and Russell Westbrook for all NBA, you are not an all time great. LeBron 13, MJ 10, Magic 9.

Yeah- we can end this conversation right now. I'll wait for the "Jokic vs. KANG- who has the better legacy" thread in a few years. That will likely be a more interesting comparison.

[imbluestreak23]

3 MVP wins over MJ

Oh sure, Nash got two on Kobe/Bron/Shaq/Duncan.

Kobe only got one in his career. Nash clearly has to be better.

Let's continue isolating random facts without context for the next 100 pages on a path to enlightenment.

[eastbayak]

Crazy to think that the Dubs could have won no Finals from 2015-2018 if:

-Kyrie and Love dont both get injured in 2015
-KD then doesn’t want to come and win Finals MVP in 2017 and 2018

This game is fun.

Still would've won the Finals in 2015 because they were the better team.

Most likely would've won the Finals in 2017 and 2018 as well since they would've brought in another SF (even if not as good as KD, anyone would've been an improvement over non-clutch Barnes).

This is easy.

[pingbling23]

Still would've won the Finals in 2015 because they were the better team.

Most likely would've won the Finals in 2017 and 2018 as well since they would've brought in another SF (even if not as good as KD, anyone would've been an improvement over non-clutch Barnes).

This is easy.

Easy but wrong. Tj's post is more accurate. Cavs took it to 6 games without their second and third best scorer as well as everything else they brought to the team. They had to play 34 year old James jones for almost 20 minutes a game. Warriors would have been competitive over that stretch and maybe would have won one. As it is curry and the warriors have lucked their way to 4 titles thanks to signing mvp Durant, multiple injuries to the majority of their best opponents over the years, and now we have to hear opinions on steph being a top 10 player of all time lol. It’s crazy how fine of a line it is and how history could be completely different. Just how the warriors would have easily beat the raptors if not for their own injuries.

[Zedlaw]

I personally give more weight to the Warriors lost 2016 because Curry and company were playing hurt or out (Curry missed 6 playoff games after all and wasn't his MVP form upon return) than won 2015 because Love and Kyrie were out. Getting more Thompson instead of Love was a hidden blessing, Love was also bad in 2016. Lossing Kyrie is tough but Curry didn't really have his number 2 also, Klay threwup some duds to end 2015: high fouls, no offense and worst defensive rating of the starters.

[GOATcards]

Oh sure, Nash got two on Kobe/Bron/Shaq/Duncan.

Kobe only got one in his career. Nash clearly has to be better.

Let's continue isolating random facts without context for the next 100 pages on a path to enlightenment.

that's me alright, isolating random facts without context

[GOATcards]

Easy but wrong. Tj's post is more accurate. Cavs took it to 6 games without their second and third best scorer as well as everything else they brought to the team. They had to play 34 year old James jones for almost 20 minutes a game. Warriors would have been competitive over that stretch and maybe would have won one. As it is curry and the warriors have lucked their way to 4 titles thanks to signing mvp Durant, multiple injuries to the majority of their best opponents over the years, and now we have to hear opinions on steph being a top 10 player of all time lol. It’s crazy how fine of a line it is and how history could be completely different. Just how the warriors would have easily beat the raptors if not for their own injuries.

i don't agree that Curry lucked his way into all 4 rings, that's too harsh. but it is more reasonable than treating his and Bron's 4 rings the same, legacy-wise. I don't remember any good argument for why team-hopping means discounting the rings.

As for opponent injuries, it's not just the Cavs in '15 but the Rockets in '18. I think I actively hated that GSW super-superteam with KD (the Finals series with healthy-him weren't competitive), and the way they "overcame" the Rockets that year exemplifies the hate-ability.

As for top-10 discussions, the "standard top 10" nowadays with the Crowley Eight plus KobeShaq shows a bunch of credentials in the MVP shares and rings (but esp. Finals MVPs) dept., then substantial drop-off after that. It's why I ask for someone to name more than 10 players with stronger resumes than Steph. Seems like a tall task, whereas naming exactly 10 players isn't so demanding a task. KD? Lots of MVP share and those two hate-able uncompetitive finals MVPs, and that's enough to put him right up there just outside the top 10 with other contenders. Hakeem? Less award share than either of the two, 2 Finals MVPs when MJ was gone or not up to speed enough for '95.

There might be a suggestion that Steph doesn't stand out from these other top-10 contenders except in an exciting-eye-test sense: he's great at shooting 3s, the best ever. If 3-point shooting and being on championship teams determines GOATability, then Chef is right up there among the top candidates.

But I don't know much, I just tend to isolate random facts without context.

[GOATcards]

I personally give more weight to the Warriors lost 2016 because Curry and company were playing hurt or out (Curry missed 6 playoff games after all and wasn't his MVP form upon return) than won 2015 because Love and Kyrie were out. Getting more Thompson instead of Love was a hidden blessing, Love was also bad in 2016. Lossing Kyrie is tough but Curry didn't really have his number 2 also, Klay threwup some duds to end 2015: high fouls, no offense and worst defensive rating of the starters.

'15 and '16 showed that neither team had much margin for error (esp. in the injuries dept.) whereas KD - as long as he's healthy - removed any such margin for error and made the '17 and '18 series uncompetitive. I haven't seen any arguments that those Finals series were in fact competitive. KD goes down in '19? Competitive again.

[JoshMN]

that's me alright, isolating random facts without context

You know what's a crazy fact that people always seem to forget? LeBron almost won the Finals MVP in 2015 despite being on the losing team. The voting was 7-4-0 Iggy-Bron-Curry. Repeat, Bron 4 - Curry zero in a Finals that Curry's team won.

[Zedlaw]

The craziest thing is actually the thing that happened. Giving the FMVP to Iguodala. Lebron was clearly the most valuable player that series. But Lebron v Curry isn’t a contest. Lebron wins that hands down. The interesting legacy argument is between Kobe and Curry for top ten. A close race but one that looks more lopsided when you remember that Kobe is credited with Paul’s MVP and a FMVP for Gasol.

[GOATcards]

someone brought up steph teaming up with an "alpha" in KD (which is itself debatable and maybe laughable given that KD has said he's not the "leader" type), and then some MouthguardBoy-Boy said that Bron teamed up with an "alpha" in Dwyane Wade (e.g. 2006 Finals). But that's not really the point/comparison. the comparison is between a player with an MVP trophy and over 3 award shares, along with 2 Finals MVPs, and a player with something more like 1 award share and 1 Finals MVP.

Obviously the Boy-Boy(s) got bias that clouds their judgments. It was KD winning Finals MVP in those 2 series which attests to relevant "alpha" status (MVP-level player, multiple years and Finals), vis a vis the fact that it was LEBRON winning the two Finals MVPs there in Miami. Come on. It's obvious what's meant by "alpha" here that seriously weighs against equally crediting Curry for '17 and '18 rings wins alongside Bron's two Heat wins. Seriously, this is ridiculous when broken down like that. The alpha on the Heat was LeBron, the alpha on the '17 and '18 Warriors not so clear-cut, both spectacular players, but look who's getting the Finals MVP both times. C'mon, don't waste our time. LeBron is definitely creditable for more career achievements than Curry, apples-to-apples. Curry is still arguably top-10, maybe tied for 10th to please everyone lol

[eastbayak]

The craziest thing is actually the thing that happened. Giving the FMVP to Iguodala. Lebron was clearly the most valuable player that series. But Lebron v Curry isn’t a contest. Lebron wins that hands down. The interesting legacy argument is between Kobe and Curry for top ten. A close race but one that looks more lopsided when you remember that Kobe is credited with Paul’s MVP and a FMVP for Gasol.

Kobe averaged 40% and went 6/24 in Game 7 of the 2010 Finals. That’s an impressive Finals MVP level performance!

[JoshMN]

Curry is still arguably top-10, maybe tied for 10th to please everyone lol

Lol. See what I mean? It would disobey the laws of physics to include Curry in a top 10 list with only 10 names on it.

[pingbling23]

i don't agree that Curry lucked his way into all 4 rings, that's too harsh. but it is more reasonable than treating his and Bron's 4 rings the same, legacy-wise. I don't remember any good argument for why team-hopping means discounting the rings.

As for opponent injuries, it's not just the Cavs in '15 but the Rockets in '18. I think I actively hated that GSW super-superteam with KD (the Finals series with healthy-him weren't competitive), and the way they "overcame" the Rockets that year exemplifies the hate-ability.

As for top-10 discussions, the "standard top 10" nowadays with the Crowley Eight plus KobeShaq shows a bunch of credentials in the MVP shares and rings (but esp. Finals MVPs) dept., then substantial drop-off after that. It's why I ask for someone to name more than 10 players with stronger resumes than Steph. Seems like a tall task, whereas naming exactly 10 players isn't so demanding a task. KD? Lots of MVP share and those two hate-able uncompetitive finals MVPs, and that's enough to put him right up there just outside the top 10 with other contenders. Hakeem? Less award share than either of the two, 2 Finals MVPs when MJ was gone or not up to speed enough for '95.

There might be a suggestion that Steph doesn't stand out from these other top-10 contenders except in an exciting-eye-test sense: he's great at shooting 3s, the best ever. If 3-point shooting and being on championship teams determines GOATability, then Chef is right up there among the top candidates.

But I don't know much, I just tend to isolate random facts without context.
It sounds harsh but breakdown the history of the warriors title runs. You’ll see the teams they faced or the teams that could reasonably beat them ended up with their stars or 1 or 2 starters injured for the series.

[GOATcards]

It sounds harsh but breakdown the history of the warriors title runs. You’ll see the teams they faced or the teams that could reasonably beat them ended up with their stars or 1 or 2 starters injured for the series.

that was significant in '15 and '18, but you have other compelling examples in mind? (also Kawhi was FMVP over Chef in '19. huh. also over Bron in '14. hmm.)

[eastbayak]

It sounds harsh but breakdown the history of the warriors title runs. You’ll see the teams they faced or the teams that could reasonably beat them ended up with their stars or 1 or 2 starters injured for the series.

If you breakdown the history of Warriors title runs, the only times they lost in the Finals was when they were dealing with injuries.

Wow, that was easy. Thanks for your assistance, pingbling.

[GOATcards]

Lol. See what I mean? It would disobey the laws of physics to include Curry in a top 10 list with only 10 names on it.

suppose you were making an argument for curry ahead of KobeShaq, what might that look like?

One thing I might do is adjust for era and consider that the opposition for Curry was LeBron (and KD for most years, and HealthyKawhi) and that for KobeShaq it was mainly Duncan and KG/Celts, arguably Curry's opposition was tougher?

[AwesomeBrian]

For the guys knocking who Lebron had on his Finals teams in Cleveland, don't forget that he was the guy playing GM asking for them.

[pete2345]

i don't agree that Curry lucked his way into all 4 rings, that's too harsh. but it is more reasonable than treating his and Bron's 4 rings the same, legacy-wise. I don't remember any good argument for why team-hopping means discounting the rings.

As for opponent injuries, it's not just the Cavs in '15 but the Rockets in '18. I think I actively hated that GSW super-superteam with KD (the Finals series with healthy-him weren't competitive), and the way they "overcame" the Rockets that year exemplifies the hate-ability.

As for top-10 discussions, the "standard top 10" nowadays with the Crowley Eight plus KobeShaq shows a bunch of credentials in the MVP shares and rings (but esp. Finals MVPs) dept., then substantial drop-off after that. It's why I ask for someone to name more than 10 players with stronger resumes than Steph. Seems like a tall task, whereas naming exactly 10 players isn't so demanding a task. KD? Lots of MVP share and those two hate-able uncompetitive finals MVPs, and that's enough to put him right up there just outside the top 10 with other contenders. Hakeem? Less award share than either of the two, 2 Finals MVPs when MJ was gone or not up to speed enough for '95.

There might be a suggestion that Steph doesn't stand out from these other top-10 contenders except in an exciting-eye-test sense: he's great at shooting 3s, the best ever. If 3-point shooting and being on championship teams determines GOATability, then Chef is right up there among the top candidates.

But I don't know much, I just tend to isolate random facts without context.

Write a book stop littering the boards with your trash hot takes.

[pingbling23]

If you breakdown the history of Warriors title runs, the only times they lost in the Finals was when they were dealing with injuries.

Wow, that was easy. Thanks for your assistance, pingbling.
Almost like there are 3 rounds before the finals with other teams that are reasonably the favorites to win until their best players go down. You can be happy for your titles just be understanding how they were achieved.

[pingbling23]

that was significant in '15 and '18, but you have other compelling examples in mind? (also Kawhi was FMVP over Chef in '19. huh. also over Bron in '14. hmm.)

Grizz would have beat them last year. You also have to look at the other teams that didn’t make it to the wcf because of injuries. Warriors dynasty is built on bad luck to other teams. The warriors have a good squad but they have been extremely fortunate. Probably the most fortunate of any franchise.

[pingbling23]

For the guys knocking who Lebron had on his Finals teams in Cleveland, don't forget that he was the guy playing GM asking for them.

Always love this. He either has too good of a team or a horrible team. Haters can shift to make it look like Lebron is a horrible gm or he stacks the deck unfairly. Surprisingly he’s been the underdog in the majority of his finals appearances. Seems like rational people would say he’s a good gm that doesn’t stack the deck when looking at the facts.

[rhigh2390]

Always love this. He either has too good of a team or a horrible team. Haters can shift to make it look like Lebron is a horrible gm or he stacks the deck unfairly. Surprisingly he’s been the underdog in the majority of his finals appearances. Seems like rational people would say he’s a good gm that doesn’t stack the deck when looking at the facts.

Or that he has failed to deliver more championships despite team hopping and stacking the deck. The Warriors just capitalized better when they did it. Lebron had the same intention making his teams as GS when they signed KD. Both intentionally stacked the deck to get easy rings, but lebron has lost more than he has won with his.

When he created the Heatles, he 100% thought it was going to be 5,6,7 rings because of how stacked they were. He just failed to deliver on that and bailed for greener pastures, as he had made his career based off of. We saw what happens when he doesn't get to add stars to his team his first year in LA...

[pingbling23]

Or that he has failed to deliver more championships despite team hopping and stacking the deck. The Warriors just capitalized better when they did it. Lebron had the same intention making his teams as GS when they signed KD. Both intentionally stacked the deck to get easy rings, but lebron has lost more than he has won with his.

Prime Lebron ever add a better player then him to his championship team? Declining wade and Bosh was a good squad to match up with the Celtics and stacked western conference teams. Not sure how it’s easy rings when you’re consistently not the favorite in the finals, unlike the warriors with kd. It’s apples to oranges.

[rhigh2390]

Prime Lebron ever add a better player then him to his championship team? Declining wade and Bosh was a good squad to match up with the Celtics and stacked western conference teams. Not sure how it’s easy rings when you’re consistently not the favorite in the finals, unlike the warriors with kd. It’s apples to oranges.

No, lebron had to go to play with a Finals MVP to learn how to win. Took him 2 years to figure it out despite being the favorite in the Finals against a lone-star Dallas team and cost his team a ring.

Lebron is better than Steph, but both have knocks on their rings (at least some of them).

[pingbling23]

Or that he has failed to deliver more championships despite team hopping and stacking the deck. The Warriors just capitalized better when they did it. Lebron had the same intention making his teams as GS when they signed KD. Both intentionally stacked the deck to get easy rings, but lebron has lost more than he has won with his.

When he created the Heatles, he 100% thought it was going to be 5,6,7 rings because of how stacked they were. He just failed to deliver on that and bailed for greener pastures, as he had made his career based off of. We saw what happens when he doesn't get to add stars to his team his first year in LA...
Since you added more disingenuous content, yeah he was pumping them at the hype parade. Going back to Cleveland with non winners was really greener pastures. Lebron was the fertilizer. Tell us about the injuries his first year in LA. Do you disregard mjs greatness because he couldn’t get the wizards to the playoffs without pippen? I don’t, maybe because I’m a jordan homer and am biased. Or I’m rational and understand context.

[mc1]

No, lebron had to go to play with a Finals MVP to learn how to win. Took him 2 years to figure it out despite being the favorite in the Finals against a lone-star Dallas team and cost his team a ring.

Lebron is better than Steph, but both have knocks on their rings (at least some of them).

Learn how to win?! Ha. Wade didnt know how to win either.
Bosh never did anything on his own.
Wade never did anything on his own. 2006 is a rigged Finals and he had lots of vet help.

Neither of them made it past the first round and even missed the playoffs from 2007-2010.

[pingbling23]

No, lebron had to go to play with a Finals MVP to learn how to win. Took him 2 years to figure it out despite being the favorite in the Finals against a lone-star Dallas team and cost his team a ring.

Lebron is better than Steph, but both have knocks on their rings (at least some of them).

Thankfully he’s a quick learner. 4 titles/fmvps and widely considered the second best basketball player of all time.

[GOATcards]

Write a book stop littering the boards with your trash hot takes.

thanx for the input, you're great

[mc1]

2006-07 44-38 1st rd loss
2007-08 15-67
2008-09 43-39 1st rd loss
2009-10 47-35 1st rd loss

What an incredible winner! Puts Magic and Birds careers to shame!

[rats60]

Lol. See what I mean? It would disobey the laws of physics to include Curry in a top 10 list with only 10 names on it.

A player who has only made all NBA 1st team 4 times in 14 seasons is not anywhere close to top 10. A guy who averages 6.5 assists per game and has never led the league in assists isn't even in the discussion for best PG of all time. Blowout is too heavily invested in Curry to have a rational discussion about him or his legacy.

[GOATcards]

A player who has only made all NBA 1st team 4 times in 14 seasons is not anywhere close to top 10. A guy who averages 6.5 assists per game and has never led the league in assists isn't even in the discussion for best PG of all time. Blowout is too heavily invested in Curry to have a rational discussion about him or his legacy.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league.html

we can all see who the competition for the 2 G positions on All-NBA1 are, vis a vis those who the likes of Oscar/Elgin were edging out for their All-NBA1 spots way back when, in an 8-team league. (some of y'all geezers seem to think that league expansion has meant watering-down. Jerry Lucas was Elgin's competition for All-NBA1 for some number of seasons, us young'uns don't know much about jerry lucas but it's alright to ask the old'uns whether he was at least as impressive at his position as, say, Doncic and Devin Booker were at the G positions last season. and how do you go about properly making an apples-to-apples comparison on that? show your work/methodology.)

a bill james of basketball would impose a timeline adjustment just like bill james of baseball did in his 2nd historical abstract (and even then his ranking of the Legends was loaded down heavily with the geezers/dead'uns, Hans Wagner's numbers towers over Barry Bonds' except for the latter's "Ruthian" phase, see.) I embrace/promote the most rigorous application of a timeline adjustment so that, e.g., one's top-10 list isn't cluttered up with old-timers (3 players from the '60s, say, when only 2 had huge award shares by historical standards before any timeline adjustments).

it's like citing russell's 11 rings as indisputable evidence of goat-hood. it's not possible in today's league, everyone knows that. so why assume that 4 All-NBA1 appearances disqualifies a player in today's context from being in the all-time top 10? (It's not like we're placing him at Duncan level, not me at any rate. I have Duncan somewhere in my top 5, somewhere between 2-4 to be precise. I can see how Curry's resume doesn't quite stack up to KobeShaq's in which case he's stuck at 11th at best despite era/timeline adjustments. but that's neither far from top 10, nor do i think someone else's resume clearly exceeds his. he's kinda a unique case, actually. eye-test-wise, I don't know how I'd separate him and Kobe. But as we've seen just these past couple regular seasons, his availability problems have limited his presence in All-NBA and MVP balloting. And there've been more seasons like that with him. But it's also a sign of the times, as availability goes. He still has over 2.6 award shares and has been the centerpiece on a great 'dynasty' (the many finals appearances speaking for themselves, whatever you think of their wins when all contextualized). this postseason he's reminding folks why he's in the top-10 discussions.

but no, I don't think he'll ever score 61 in a Finals game like Elgin did. if MJ couldn't even do it,...

[fabiani12333]

LeBron is post peak -- Curry is still near peak. LeBron is sharing more of the load with AD than Curry is with Kay.

Both players legacies have mostly been written. Though I think Curry stands to benefit more from another championship due to his importance to the Warriors' success.

But basketball is still a team sport. The supporting players are crucial to a team's championship chances.

[fabiani12333]

Well Kang has been around since the the 1960s, so he has been around. I mean since the dawn of time the guy has different versions of himself.

Chef Curry has not even been in a comic ball series or Space Jam, so really no debate.

Kang has been around, he beats the FF4, the Avengers all day long.:p Now maybe Curry vs Dr. Doom, maybe.

I haven't watched the newest Ant Man movie, but isn't Kang a time traveler in the comic books? He went back to ancient Egypt and conquered it, right? So he's literally timeless.

Curry seems like a Spiderman type to me.

[drobfan8]

Holy hell.

The takes are wild in this one.

Stacked Western conference teams! Poor LeBron. He only had to face them if he made the Finals. Which when he did he got trounced most of the time.

It's hard to argue against LeBron's body of work. Which will make it more embarrassing for him if Steph does win more titles than him.

LeBron is one of the best individual players out there. Throw him on any team I his prime and he'll have you compete. But let's be real, he's always needed more than any of the other greats to win.

I've heard LeBron fanatics say that LeBron had to beat an incredible Spurs team. Yeah well OKC beat them 4-2 the season after. And in 2014 the Clippers beat them too.

What's crazy is that Steph should really have a 5th ring already if it wasn't for both KD and Klay missing a lot of that series vs Toronto. Just nuts.

LeBron is a front runner. His team is either good enough or they've been trounced. Have we ever seen another top 5 level guy get blown out so much in the Finals? Amazing.

[BlueXtreme]

Holy hell.

The takes are wild in this one.

Stacked Western conference teams! Poor LeBron. He only had to face them if he made the Finals. Which when he did he got trounced most of the time.

It's hard to argue against LeBron's body of work. Which will make it more embarrassing for him if Steph does win more titles than him.

LeBron is one of the best individual players out there. Throw him on any team I his prime and he'll have you compete. But let's be real, he's always needed more than any of the other greats to win.

I've heard LeBron fanatics say that LeBron had to beat an incredible Spurs team. Yeah well OKC beat them 4-2 the season after. And in 2014 the Clippers beat them too.

What's crazy is that Steph should really have a 5th ring already if it wasn't for both KD and Klay missing a lot of that series vs Toronto. Just nuts.

LeBron is a front runner. His team is either good enough or they've been trounced. Have we ever seen another top 5 level guy get blown out so much in the Finals? Amazing.

Takes like Ben Simmons is the second coming of LeBron?

This is a different era of basketball but you can’t seem to comprehend that. Team construction is different. The player pool is different. Would jokic Gianni’s or Luka even be in the NBA when these greats played?

What’s crazy is you saying LeBron always needed more when Steph needed a prime KD. Is there “more” than that? Lol.

So when Steph’s players go down that’s why. When LeBron’s does he should have just carried the burden. Nbd. Right?

How many times was he favorited to win those finals? Steph is another great player who luckily got drafted into what was the best team of the time. Maybe even a small dynasty depending on your criteria. Has LeBron ever been on a dynasty?

[pcptrade]

Takes like Ben Simmons is the second coming of LeBron?


Wait, what did I miss?

https://media4.giphy.com/media/jQmVFypWInKCc/giphy.gif

[BlueXtreme]

Wait, what did I miss?

https://media4.giphy.com/media/jQmVFypWInKCc/giphy.gif

Haha, just DRob being DRob. I can’t believe this curry vs LeBron is even a debate. Boggles my mind.

Even this (swipe through):

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cr0oH8JgYxf/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Dude should have been an MVP how many seasons?

[BostonNut]

Has LeBron ever been on a dynasty?

Yup!

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F76da77d4-a65d-424d-8d2b-a451200cf721_480x270.gif

[BlueXtreme]

Yup!

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F76da77d4-a65d-424d-8d2b-a451200cf721_480x270.gif

That’s one short lived dynasty. And they won. Was he drafted onto one or a franchise that could even build one? He gave Cavs time

[rhigh2390]

Holy hell.

The takes are wild in this one.

Stacked Western conference teams! Poor LeBron. He only had to face them if he made the Finals. Which when he did he got trounced most of the time.

It's hard to argue against LeBron's body of work. Which will make it more embarrassing for him if Steph does win more titles than him.

LeBron is one of the best individual players out there. Throw him on any team I his prime and he'll have you compete. But let's be real, he's always needed more than any of the other greats to win.

I've heard LeBron fanatics say that LeBron had to beat an incredible Spurs team. Yeah well OKC beat them 4-2 the season after. And in 2014 the Clippers beat them too.

What's crazy is that Steph should really have a 5th ring already if it wasn't for both KD and Klay missing a lot of that series vs Toronto. Just nuts.

LeBron is a front runner. His team is either good enough or they've been trounced. Have we ever seen another top 5 level guy get blown out so much in the Finals? Amazing.

DRob, we disagree on the Lakers this year, but love when you come with facts like these :)!

[Asian62150]

it's like citing russell's 11 rings as indisputable evidence of goat-hood. it's not possible in today's league, everyone knows that.

Before Russell won 11 rings in 13 seasons, did anyone think 11 rings was possible?

And if it was so easy to win a ring back then, how come Wilt only has 2, Mr. Clutch only has 1 (after Russell retired) while Elgin has 0?

I'm not saying every single guy in the 50s and 60s would dominate today because they wouldn't, but let's put a little more respect on the guys that came before and paved the way. Today's greats certainly do.

[mc1]

That’s one short lived dynasty. And they won. Was he drafted onto one or a franchise that could even build one? He gave Cavs time

All-time great resume!

2003-04 33-49
2004-05 33-49
2005-06 27-55
2006-07 47-35 1st rd loss
2007-08 41-41 1st rd loss
2008-09 33-49
2009-10 40-42

A resume that even Trae and Luka have surpassed!:doh:

[BlueXtreme]

All-time great resume!

2003-04 33-49
2004-05 33-49
2005-06 27-55
2006-07 47-35 1st rd loss
2007-08 41-41 1st rd loss
2008-09 33-49
2009-10 40-42

A resume that even Trae and Luka have surpassed!:doh:

The Cavs were a dumpster fire when he joined them. I asked someone else this. I’ll ask you. Who was the best player on his team in the first stint? How many were out of the league a year or 2 after he left? That’s what I thought

I can’t believe we are discussing Curry over LeBron still lol.. and now he’s 38 out of his prime and he’s still expected to beat people in their prime.

I shouldn’t be surprised. There’s always been an agenda against LeBron on here. Paxson and Kerr hit a shot. Oh MJ drew that up! So smart. LeBron passes to open guy. Bum… Curry’s teammates goes down. Oh he’d have won. Poor curry. LeBron’s does. Oh look he failed again. And even with them he would have lost!

It’s insane lol

[6celtics33]

I love Curry but come on. This is ridiculous

Curry v Isiah or Curry v Kobe is a better argument and I don’t think there’s a clear answer there either.

Curry is a poster child for this era with being the best at what this era is known for… 3s

And I’ll give him credit that he wasn’t highly recruited but still took Davidson to the elite 8. He’s a winner and overachiever. They kept taking point guards over him in the draft and he was the one that survived and prospered. It used to be an argument of who should they keep? Curry or Ellis. When Steph had bad ankles. But he just keeps rising to the top. An all time great FOR SURE.

But no, not top 5 and not on Lebron’s level.

[6celtics33]

Jordan

Lebron, Russell, Bird, Magic Kareem

Wilt Duncan

Kobe Shaq Hakeem

Oscar West Curry Durant Kobe Moses Dirk Karl KG

It’s not an insult for him to be slotted in that 12-20 group somewhere. And I probably forgot somebody I’m sure that belongs.

[rhigh2390]

Jordan

Lebron, Russell, Bird, Magic Kareem

Wilt Duncan

Kobe Shaq Hakeem

Oscar West Curry Durant Kobe Moses Dirk Karl KG

It’s not an insult for him to be slotted in that 12-20 group somewhere. And I probably forgot somebody I’m sure that belongs.

Good rankings. Are the players in the tiers in order, or just players in the category?

And I'm in the lebron "hate" group on here and I have lebron clearly over Curry all time as well.

[imbluestreak23]

Or that he has failed to deliver more championships despite team hopping and stacking the deck. The Warriors just capitalized better when they did it. Lebron had the same intention making his teams as GS when they signed KD. Both intentionally stacked the deck to get easy rings, but lebron has lost more than he has won with his.

When he created the Heatles, he 100% thought it was going to be 5,6,7 rings because of how stacked they were. He just failed to deliver on that and bailed for greener pastures, as he had made his career based off of. We saw what happens when he doesn't get to add stars to his team his first year in LA...

It was fantastic karma when the dark skin banana bros Wade + KANG mocked gringo Dirk in the 2011 NBA Finals, then Wade proceeded to get hurt in Game 5 (karma) and KANG turned into Kasper for Game 6. I'm sure Dirkie still feels a tingle thinking about that sweet vengence.

[SDcardguy24]

I think the post KD-era ring and his 1st FMVP last season was a big addition for Curry's legacy. If he can somehow get ring #5 and a 2nd FMVP then I think people will feel more comfortable putting him in the back of any all time top 10 lists. But LeBron is firmly top 2 all time for most people and that won't change.

[Braswell10]

Curry has rings but he does not compare to any of the other top 10 in individual accolades. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.

Also, drob is clearly biased. Points out Lebrons flaws with needing great teammates, but complete ignores Curry’s side of the story.

This place is so frustrating because people just pull stuff that fits their narrative.

[6celtics33]

Good rankings. Are the players in the tiers in order, or just players in the category?

And I'm in the lebron "hate" group on here and I have lebron clearly over Curry all time as well.

Just tiers off the top of my head. And I put Kobe in two different groups. See, not thinking too good lately.

[Scottish Punk]

Curry has rings but he does not compare to any of the other top 10 in individual accolades. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.

Also, drob is clearly biased. Points out Lebrons flaws with needing great teammates, but complete ignores Curry’s side of the story.

This place is so frustrating because people just pull stuff that fits their narrative.

It is because all of these rankings really just come down to who that person likes the most. We have people on this board that love Lebron and he is the best, many others that hate him and won't give him credit for anything or always put him down. We also have a large Jordan is everything crowd which means anybody else is automatically down a notch.

Fun arguments I guess, but kind of pointless when you get down to who is 1 compared to 2 compared to 5 for whatever.

[6celtics33]

It is because all of these rankings really just come down to who that person likes the most. We have people on this board that love Lebron and he is the best, many others that hate him and won't give him credit for anything or always put him down. We also have a large Jordan is everything crowd which means anybody else is automatically down a notch.

Fun arguments I guess, but kind of pointless when you get down to who is 1 compared to 2 compared to 5 for whatever.

Jordan is God in basketball shoes. Basketball Jesus (Bird) even said so. Everyone else is down a notch.

2- infinity is slightly arguable. I don’t think it’s possible to have a definitive list everyone agrees on. A lot of times when people are arguing their criteria isn’t even the same. So they could both be right and not even know it.

[Zedlaw]

If we are drafting sidekicks of the top 10 players, when does Klay go? (roughly ranked relative to the stage of their career when they won titles)

Kareem
Magic
Shaq
Kobe
Oscar
West
Durant
Pippen
Mchale
Robinson
Manu
Kyrie
Rodman
Davis
Gasol
Wade
Worthy
Jones
Havlicek
Kawhi
Greer
Cousy
Horry
Wiggins

Playoff Klay has been an inconsistent animal and it's not a big stretch to argue him at the bottom of this list.

[ninjacookies]

Moufpiece Beaver will always hold a general popularity edge over LeCNN due to political and social implications...regardless of basketbol accomplishments.

Which is ironic, because they're both identically aligned and equally outspoken. But I think that has more to do with fossil's status as the face of the league: for better or worse, his words are automatically given more media weight.


I enjoy them both. /pause


And I'll miss em when they're gone. As should all of you.

[blackbears86]

I love Curry but come on. This is ridiculous

Curry v Isiah or Curry v Kobe is a better argument and I don’t think there’s a clear answer there either.

Curry is a poster child for this era with being the best at what this era is known for… 3s

And I’ll give him credit that he wasn’t highly recruited but still took Davidson to the elite 8. He’s a winner and overachiever. They kept taking point guards over him in the draft and he was the one that survived and prospered. It used to be an argument of who should they keep? Curry or Ellis. When Steph had bad ankles. But he just keeps rising to the top. An all time great FOR SURE.

But no, not top 5 and not on Lebron’s level.



Agree. Love Curry for sure, and he's changed the way the modern NBA is played, but Lebron is easily top 2-5 based on the rankings of people on this board (or even lower if you know nothing about basketball):cool:

[GOATcards]

Before Russell won 11 rings in 13 seasons, did anyone think 11 rings was possible?

And if it was so easy to win a ring back then, how come Wilt only has 2, Mr. Clutch only has 1 (after Russell retired) while Elgin has 0?

I'm not saying every single guy in the 50s and 60s would dominate today because they wouldn't, but let's put a little more respect on the guys that came before and paved the way. Today's greats certainly do.It's relative difficulty, not to imply it's easy no matter when. But I do think it was relatively less difficult for someone in Russell's situation to pull down 11 rings than it would be today. I say it was relatively more difficult for Russell's contemporaries you named to win rings, compared to Russell, given Russell's own situation.

It's likely akin to how the Yankees won a lot more World Series back when, compared to the modern day.

Sent from my V350C using Tapatalk

[drobfan8]

DRob, we disagree on the Lakers this year, but love when you come with facts like these :)!

You know it.

Curry has rings but he does not compare to any of the other top 10 in individual accolades. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.

Also, drob is clearly biased. Points out Lebrons flaws with needing great teammates, but complete ignores Curry’s side of the story.

This place is so frustrating because people just pull stuff that fits their narrative.

Ummmm I would actually pick LeBron.

Curry is like Tim Duncan. Went the leadership rout instead of being all about yourself.

I was just replying to some takes by LeBron fanaticals. One guy called D. Wade and Bosh dealing players in their 8th season in the league. Bahahaha.

It would absolutely be embarrassing if Curry wins more titles than LeBron. I have no idea how anyone would defend that. Something something KD is about it. I mean, what has KD done since? Nada.

Curry is building a better legacy with one team.
What team do we even tie LeBron too? He was at his best with Miami. But nobody really liked them.

Should be interesting to see who wins this series and if either Bron or Curry gets a 5th ring. LeBron really needs it.

[BlueXtreme]

You know it.



Ummmm I would actually pick LeBron.

Curry is like Tim Duncan. Went the leadership rout instead of being all about yourself.

I was just replying to some takes by LeBron fanaticals. One guy called D. Wade and Bosh dealing players in their 8th season in the league. Bahahaha.

It would absolutely be embarrassing if Curry wins more titles than LeBron. I have no idea how anyone would defend that. Something something KD is about it. I mean, what has KD done since? Nada.

Curry is building a better legacy with one team.
What team do we even tie LeBron too? He was at his best with Miami. But nobody really liked them.

Should be interesting to see who wins this series and if either Bron or Curry gets a 5th ring. LeBron really needs it.

No. At 38. He absolutely does not lol. Look at his body of work with an unbiased mind. Oh wait…
KD was in his prime on GSW. And has been hurt since really. So not sure how that applies. Half the time LeBron leaves a team the entire roster ends up out of the league. SMH.

[Braswell10]

You know it.



Ummmm I would actually pick LeBron.

Curry is like Tim Duncan. Went the leadership rout instead of being all about yourself.

I was just replying to some takes by LeBron fanaticals. One guy called D. Wade and Bosh dealing players in their 8th season in the league. Bahahaha.

It would absolutely be embarrassing if Curry wins more titles than LeBron. I have no idea how anyone would defend that. Something something KD is about it. I mean, what has KD done since? Nada.

Curry is building a better legacy with one team.
What team do we even tie LeBron too? He was at his best with Miami. But nobody really liked them.

Should be interesting to see who wins this series and if either Bron or Curry gets a 5th ring. LeBron really needs it.

Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted, you can’t say the same for Lebron. I mean Curry wasn’t the only reason the Warriors had a 73-9 season.

And just because KD hasn’t accomplished anything after Golden State does not mean he didn’t put them over the edge. The whole time KD was in GS everyone knew he was the best player on the team, and it was always Lebron vs KD, never Lebron vs Steph.

I personally think rings are becoming more and more overrated. The situation you get drafted into plays a HUGE role in determining how much you win, no matter how good of a player you are. As I stated before, we seem to be ignoring Steph’s lack of total personal accolades and jumping right to his rings, even though his team was never an underdog…think about that.

[ballhawkdawk]

Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted

What’s the case for this look like? The Warriors were 29-53 before drafting Curry and 26-56 his rookie year. “Blessed with a great situation” is not the first thought that comes to mind.

[mc1]

What’s the case for this look like? The Warriors were 29-53 before drafting Curry and 26-56 his rookie year. “Blessed with a great situation” is not the first thought that comes to mind.

Well, eventually Klay and Draymond joined him. :)! So the Warriors drafted well.

[BlueXtreme]

What’s the case for this look like? The Warriors were 29-53 before drafting Curry and 26-56 his rookie year. “Blessed with a great situation” is not the first thought that comes to mind.

Curry was hurt the first couple years. The franchise turned things around through drafting and building around him. Klay. Draymond. To a lesser degree Poole.

[mc1]

Curry was hurt the first couple years. The franchise turned things around through drafting and building around him. Klay. Draymond. To a lesser degree Poole.

There was also a guy named Durant that joined the squad for a couple years. He was pretty good.

[Braswell10]

What’s the case for this look like? The Warriors were 29-53 before drafting Curry and 26-56 his rookie year. “Blessed with a great situation” is not the first thought that comes to mind.

You can’t just look at the record. Have to look at ownership, drafting, and other things like cap space. All of that helped put Warriors and Curry into a position to succeed.

if we are comparing directly to Lebron, the Cavs ownership was a mess, their drafting was non existent, and they did a poor job managing cap space.

[hermanotarjeta]

Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted, you can’t say the same for Lebron. I mean Curry wasn’t the only reason the Warriors had a 73-9 season.

And just because KD hasn’t accomplished anything after Golden State does not mean he didn’t put them over the edge. The whole time KD was in GS everyone knew he was the best player on the team, and it was always Lebron vs KD, never Lebron vs Steph.

I personally think rings are becoming more and more overrated. The situation you get drafted into plays a HUGE role in determining how much you win, no matter how good of a player you are. As I stated before, we seem to be ignoring Steph’s lack of total personal accolades and jumping right to his rings, even though his team was never an underdog…think about that.

Bron had seven years to mold his hometown team into a champion, and he bailed on them.

Sounds like Bron was more of a detriment to his team than someone who makes others around him better.

Bron was coddled and he couldn’t make anything with it.

[BlueXtreme]

You can’t just look at the record. Have to look at ownership, drafting, and other things like cap space. All of that helped put Warriors and Curry into a position to succeed.

if we are comparing directly to Lebron, the Cavs ownership was a mess, their drafting was non existent, and they did a poor job managing cap space.

You can't compare.

[mc1]

Bron had seven years to mold his hometown team into a champion, and he bailed on them.

Sounds like Bron was more of a detriment to his team than someone who makes others around him better.

Bron was coddled and he couldn’t make anything with it.

Hm, so then youre saying the Warriors were molded successfully by Steph? Did it all on his own? :confused:

[JeremyNick]

Bron had seven years to mold his hometown team into a champion, and he bailed on them.

Sounds like Bron was more of a detriment to his team than someone who makes others around him better.

Bron was coddled and he couldn’t make anything with it.

That’s his legacy.

That’s the thread title. Everyone is arguing who’s better, it’s Lebron. Who do I have as a better legacy, Curry and it’s not close.

Lebron was coddled, team hopped, tried to join/build any team to get his rings, shirked accountability when things didn’t go his way. He’s the consummate me-man.

Curry is pretty much the opposite and has had tremendous success being that guy. He’s not Lebron in terms of skill, Lebron is nothing compared to Steph in character.

That’s his legacy.

[Asian62150]

The Warriors drafted well with Draymond in the 2nd round being their biggest steal, then Klay, then Steph. Without his D and ability to pass and set good screens, the Warriors might just be another one of those "die by the 3" teams. And then Klay was a great 2-way player. Ppl see him and think of all those 3s and "Game 6 Klay" but his D used to be incredible. Steph is the ultimate shooter and he puts them over the top. When you think of the Warriors, you think of the 3s and crazy shot making. But their D is what has really carried them when they've won championships. That death lineup with Draymond, Iggy, KD, Klay, and Steph was 4 amazing versatile players on the defensive end and 3 amazing shooters on the offensive end.

Steph thrives best when he is free to carve up teams and not have to worry so much about the defensive end (even though he's become a passable defender in their system). If Steph and Dame traded places, would the Blazers be that much better? I think the Warriors would still be favored against the Lakers.

Another huge reason the Warriors are what they are is because Steph signed what turned out to be a very very team friendly extension. He was still somewhat unproven and coming off those ankle injuries so he signed a deal that gave him some financial security but also gave the team flexibility so they could keep their core together and then they had that weird salary cap perfect storm that allowed them to sign Durant.

But I get it. The Bulls were in a similar position with Pippen being severely underpaid, which allowed them to get better teammates to win all those chips. That's why it's so hard to win championships. You need to have good players, smart FO ppl, but also need some breaks to go your way, too.

[BlueXtreme]

That’s his legacy.

That’s the thread title. Everyone is arguing who’s better, it’s Lebron. Who do I have as a better legacy, Curry and it’s not close.

Lebron was coddled, team hopped, tried to join/build any team to get his rings, shirked accountability when things didn’t go his way. He’s the consummate me-man.

Curry is pretty much the opposite and has had tremendous success being that guy. He’s not Lebron in terms of skill, Lebron is nothing compared to Steph in character.

That’s his legacy.

LeBron was coddled? Name the best player he played with on his first stint with the Cavs.. Name how many of those players were out of the league the second he left. Yeah, coddled

[hermanotarjeta]

Hm, so then youre saying the Warriors were molded successfully by Steph? Did it all on his own? :confused:

Steph made all the folks who were drafted by the warriors subsequently BETTER players.

Bron sucked the souls out of all who were drafted by the Cavs. He blamed Cavs management when he left for Miami when all they did was do everything to build their team for HIM.

Bron’s legacy will always be the most selfishest player in NBA history.

As stated many times before - he has one of the greatest toolboxes in NBA history, his skill set is second to none.

But he will always be a coward and egomaniac from non-millennial eyes.

[hermanotarjeta]

LeBron was coddled? Name the best player he played with on his first stint with the Cavs.. Name how many of those players were out of the league the second he left. Yeah, coddled

Maybe coddled isn’t the best word for the millennial vernacular.

Entitled would be more appropriate and understandable to his fan bois.

[iambison]

Embarrassing we are even having this discussion.

I like Curry but it is not even close.

-Lebron has been to more finals
-His teams are much worse when he leaves
-He has much better clutch stats in the playoffs and finals
- Lebron beat the Warriors down 3-1 with some bums on that team, and then the warriors added KD who was a top 3 player to their team
-He is probably the player you take at #1 (over Jordan) if you are building a team from scratch

We should appreciate both players at this point. Lebron is better, better legacy.
Steph changed the game more with his ability to shoot from so far.


4 finals against each other:

Year 1: Warriors win but no Kevin Love or Kyrie
Year 2: Best comeback ever, all time performances from Lebron (The Block) also shoutout to Kyrie
Year 3 and 4: Broken Warriors team with KD

[BlueXtreme]

Steph made all the folks who were drafted by the warriors subsequently BETTER players.

Bron sucked the souls out of all who were drafted by the Cavs. He blamed Cavs management when he left for Miami when all they did was do everything to build their team for HIM.

Bron’s legacy will always be the most selfishest player in NBA history.

As stated many times before - he has one of the greatest toolboxes in NBA history, his skill set is second to none.

But he will always be a coward and egomaniac from non-millennial eyes.

He sucked the souls out of them or kept them in the league? Tell me who they drafted in his first stint that was good. Or even was still in the league after he left? What did they do to build a team for him? lol.
He kept those players relevant. And without him they were all out of the league

[mc1]

Steph made all the folks who were drafted by the warriors subsequently BETTER players.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/VM01S5yIaKCgqg1bSF/200w.gif?cid=6c09b952ir2vqmesd9uuh03r0rsdrgeerwrz45g8iokoltdz&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200w.gif&ct=g

If you say so… must be true.

[BlueXtreme]

Maybe coddled isn’t the best word for the millennial vernacular.

Entitled would be more appropriate and understandable to his fan bois.

I think you mean a different e word... Earned. I am not seeing how they at all coddled him in that first stint. Not at all

[hermanotarjeta]

He sucked the souls out of them or kept them in the league? Tell me who they drafted in his first stint that was good. Or even was still in the league after he left? What did they do to build a team for him? lol.
He kept those players relevant. And without him they were all out of the league

Name three players that was drafted by the team that Lebron was playing on at the time that Lebron has ever molded into an all star/ hall of famer.

Can you name even one?

Curry enhanced Klay and Draymond’s game.

[Braswell10]

Bron had seven years to mold his hometown team into a champion, and he bailed on them.

Sounds like Bron was more of a detriment to his team than someone who makes others around him better.

Bron was coddled and he couldn’t make anything with it.

Please name one thing the Cavs did for Lebron that set him up for success?

He is the only reason they were ever relevant.

[Braswell10]

Name three players that was drafted by the team that Lebron was playing on at the time that Lebron has ever molded into an all star/ hall of famer.

So you’re saying Curry molded Draymond into the player he is?

This is some next level troll stuff right here.

[BlueXtreme]

Name three players that was drafted by the team that Lebron was playing on at the time that Lebron has ever molded into an all star/ hall of famer.

Exactly.... Nice deflection. Name 3 people he could mold into anything. Boobie Gibson he made a thing for a bit. Where's he at now I wonder? lol.
That's the thing. You can't name anyone they put around him. Because they didn't. They drafted horribly. Brought in no one of relevance. "Coddled"

[BlueXtreme]

Please name one thing the Cavs did for Lebron that set him up for success?

He is the only reason they were ever relevant.

They didn't... but he was so coddled.

[hermanotarjeta]

Exactly.... Nice deflection. Name 3 people he could mold into anything. Boobie Gibson he made a thing for a bit. Where's he at now I wonder? lol.
That's the thing. You can't name anyone they put around him. Because they didn't. They drafted horribly. Brought in no one of relevance. "Coddled"

Lebron made his first round drafted teammates worse.

Curry made his drafted teammates better.

Bron homers like to blame it on everyone but Bron.

But like Bron himself says - “maybe it’s me.”

Yes, Bron and Bron boulder holders, it’s you.

[blackbears86]

Hm, so then youre saying the Warriors were molded successfully by Steph? Did it all on his own? :confused:



Lebron also controlled the draft position of the Cavs all those years and told them exactly who to draft.:)!

[Asian62150]

Lebron made his teammates worse.

Curry made his teammates better.

Bron homers like to blame it on everyone but Bron.

But like Bron himself says - “maybe it’s me.”

Yes, Bron and Bron boulder holders, it’s you,

Bron made his teammates worse?

So the 2007 Cavs would have had a better chance against the Spurs without him?

[BlueXtreme]

Lebron made his first round drafted teammates worse.

Curry made his drafted teammates better.

Bron homers like to blame it on everyone but Bron.

But like Bron himself says - “maybe it’s me.”

Yes, Bron and Bron boulder holders, it’s you.


Name his first round draft teammates? Go ahead. I'll wait.
If he made them worse.. Why were they out of the league even after his departure? He elevated people around him. Even other teams/coaches/ex nba players say that. Are you trolling? I can't tell...

[blackbears86]

Embarrassing we are even having this discussion.

I like Curry but it is not even close.

-Lebron has been to more finals
-His teams are much worse when he leaves
-He has much better clutch stats in the playoffs and finals
- Lebron beat the Warriors down 3-1 with some bums on that team, and then the warriors added KD who was a top 3 player to their team
-He is probably the player you take at #1 (over Jordan) if you are building a team from scratch

We should appreciate both players at this point. Lebron is better, better legacy.
Steph changed the game more with his ability to shoot from so far.


4 finals against each other:

Year 1: Warriors win but no Kevin Love or Kyrie
Year 2: Best comeback ever, all time performances from Lebron (The Block) also shoutout to Kyrie
Year 3 and 4: Broken Warriors team with KD




That's the problem with this board. It's not close at all, but people hate Lebron so much, their judgement is clouded.



I can't stand Lebron the person, but Steph isn't close to him in terms of legacy.

[JeremyNick]

LeBron was coddled? Name the best player he played with on his first stint with the Cavs.. Name how many of those players were out of the league the second he left. Yeah, coddled

He’s been with the Cavs his entire career?

Are we talking about the same Bron?

He’s a coddled baby. That’s why he left Cleveland, he didn’t get coddled enough his first stint there.

[hermanotarjeta]

Bron made his teammates worse?

So the 2007 Cavs would have had a better chance against the Spurs without him?

Tim Duncan turned draft picks ginobili and Parker into hall of famers.

Lebron turned all the Cavs draft picks into zombies.

Great teammates enhance talent.

Soul suckers become cancers to their organizations.

That’s what Bron did in Cleveland.

No one wants to coach him.

No one wanted to be his teammate in Cleveland.

[BlueXtreme]

Tim Duncan turned draft picks ginobili and Parker into hall of famers.

Lebron turned all the Cavs draft picks into zombies.

Great teammates enhance talent.

Soul suckers become cancers to their organizations.

That’s what Bron did in Cleveland.

No one wants to coach him.

No one wanted to be his teammate in Cleveland.

You have not answered a single question posed to you. Who did he suck the soul out of? What player did he make worse? Which player got better after he was no longer by their side... I'll wait...

[hermanotarjeta]

Name his first round draft teammates? Go ahead. I'll wait.
If he made them worse.. Why were they out of the league even after his departure? He elevated people around him. Even other teams/coaches/ex nba players say that. Are you trolling? I can't tell...

If he elevated people around him, why couldn’t he turn his first round pick teammates into at least all-stars?

He’s not a team player and he created a circus wherever he played.

He’s the clown and ringmaster in a circus show collapsing into flames.

[BlueXtreme]

He’s been with the Cavs his entire career?

Are we talking about the same Bron?

He’s a coddled baby. That’s why he left Cleveland, he didn’t get coddled enough his first stint there.

He wasn't coddled enough... or he gave them adequate time and they did nothing?

[BlueXtreme]

If he elevated people around him, why couldn’t he turn his first round pick teammates into at least all-stars?

He’s not a team player and he created a circus wherever he played.

He’s the clown and ringmaster in a circus show collapsing into flames.

Still not answering any questions, I see.... He's not a team player? Every single person he played with had elevated stats by his side. If they were even still in the league after not playing with him. He kept food on the table and a check in some of their pockets...

I think you're trolling at this point. I asked for names. Who did he make worse? Who got better after not playing with him? What draft pick was relevant after playing with LeBron?

[blackbears86]

Tim Duncan turned draft picks ginobili and Parker into hall of famers.

Lebron turned all the Cavs draft picks into zombies.
maybe because the Cavs drafted garbage players?
Great teammates enhance talent.
he brought them to the finals multiple times. How's that not enhancing?
Soul suckers become cancers to their organizations.

That’s what Bron did in Cleveland.

No one wants to coach him.
says who? Darvin Ham seems to like him
No one wanted to be his teammate in Cleveland.
again, says who?

[BlueXtreme]

That's the problem with this board. It's not close at all, but people hate Lebron so much, their judgement is clouded.



I can't stand Lebron the person, but Steph isn't close to him in terms of legacy.

It is unreal how biased and irrational this forum has gotten over him.
Wonder if they even appreciate basketball at this point.

[drobfan8]

Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted, you can’t say the same for Lebron. I mean Curry wasn’t the only reason the Warriors had a 73-9 season.

And just because KD hasn’t accomplished anything after Golden State does not mean he didn’t put them over the edge. The whole time KD was in GS everyone knew he was the best player on the team, and it was always Lebron vs KD, never Lebron vs Steph.

I personally think rings are becoming more and more overrated. The situation you get drafted into plays a HUGE role in determining how much you win, no matter how good of a player you are. As I stated before, we seem to be ignoring Steph’s lack of total personal accolades and jumping right to his rings, even though his team was never an underdog…think about that.

What a garbage post.

What had the Dubs done before Steph? Nothing for a very long time.

To say he was drafted in to a better situation is so lolsy to me.

If you're gonna say that, surely LeBron got drafted in to a better situation seeing as the East was so bad hos first 7 years.

Steph's first 7 years he had to face really great teams in his conference.

It's amazing what happens if you put your ego aside and actually play for the team rather than yourself.

Man the one eyed takes are wild.

[blackbears86]

just looked at the cavs draft picks after Lebron was drafted: Pretty bad.

[hermanotarjeta]

You have not answered a single question posed to you. Who did he suck the soul out of? What player did he make worse? Which player got better after he was no longer by their side... I'll wait...

First round picks Luke Jackson, Shannon brown, JJ hickson.

None ever developed with Bron, even though he hand picked them himself.

Had he been a better teammate/influence/educator, they would have been more serviceable nba players.

Bron set the dagger in their careers during their impressionable early seasons, and never recovered.

And Bron bailed.

[sportzluvr1]

I'm not sure Curry is super close....yet.

Would take at least 2 more titles and finals mvp as well as 3-4 more ++ regular seasons.

There's a reason 85% of basketball heads talk mj/lebron as top 2.

Even if you dont care for LeBron you gots to appreciate his greatness.

[BlueXtreme]

just looked at the cavs draft picks after Lebron was drafted: Pretty bad.

Are you sure? I think LeBron is the reason they are not superstars...

[imbluestreak23]

You have not answered a single question posed to you. Who did he suck the soul out of? What player did he make worse? Which player got better after he was no longer by their side... I'll wait...

-Kevin Love was on suicide watch
-Chris Bosh went from velociraptor to puppy dog
-DWade went from FMVP, baby MJ, to...hmm, a notch down

Kyrie did get elevated, but it's because he's a natural emotional beta and plays a good second fiddle. I don't know, nor care about the rest, but when actual stars join KANG, they take a step back. I don't in any way see how any PF has benefited from playing with KANG aside from Tristan Thompson as most "stars" that join are relegated to spot up shooters who get criticized when they don't deliver.

[BlueXtreme]

First round picks Luke Jackson, Shannon brown, JJ hickson.

None ever developed with Bron, even though he hand picked them himself.

Had he been a better teammate/influence/educator, they would have been more serviceable nba players.

Bron set the dagger in their careers during their impressionable early seasons, and never recovered.

And Bron bailed.

Lol... If they were so great. Why weren't they in the league after? What did Luke Jackson do after? I remember LeBron making Boobie Gibson a thing. And even Hickson. For a bit. What did Hickson do without LeBron? Oh, that's right. Out of the league.

[blackbears86]

First round picks Luke Jackson, Shannon brown, JJ hickson.

None ever developed with Bron, even though he hand picked them himself.

Had he been a better teammate/influence/educator, they would have been more serviceable nba players.

Bron set the dagger in their careers during their impressionable early seasons, and never recovered.

And Bron bailed.



Now this is news to me. Lebron told the Cavs to draft these players?

[imbluestreak23]

just looked at the cavs draft picks after Lebron was drafted: Pretty bad.

To be fair, you could look at most NBA teams draft picks during the same time period and it would look equally bad. Cleveland isn't unique when the talent pool outside the lottery is bare.

[hermanotarjeta]

again, says who?


Wait, if the Cavs drafted garbage players, how in the world did they make it to the finals?

Oh yeah, back to the old Bron almomd hugger argument - he played with nobody, it was Bron versus five hall of famer player super teams and Bron was SO good he made it to the finals……just to lose again and again.

[BlueXtreme]

-Kevin Love was on suicide watch
-Chris Bosh went from velociraptor to puppy dog
-DWade went from FMVP, baby MJ, to...hmm, a notch down

Kyrie did get elevated, but it's because he's a natural emotional beta and plays a good second fiddle. I don't know, nor care about the rest, but when actual stars join KANG, they take a step back. I don't in any way see how any PF has benefited from playing with KANG aside from Tristan Thompson as most "stars" that join are relegated to spot up shooters who get criticized when they don't deliver.

Chris Bosh. Champion
Kevin Love. Champion
DWade. Champion 2 more times.

Yeah. You right. Worse. Rings only matter as a counter argument to LeBron though. Right :)!

[drobfan8]

You can’t just look at the record. Have to look at ownership, drafting, and other things like cap space. All of that helped put Warriors and Curry into a position to succeed.

if we are comparing directly to Lebron, the Cavs ownership was a mess, their drafting was non existent, and they did a poor job managing cap space.

LeBron held himself back. He wasn't good enough to win a title. Hence why he sh't the bed vs the Mavs.

Nothing Cleveland would have done would have helped him. He had Boozer who went on and got better when leaving LeBron. He had Jamison, they even tried Shaq.

LeBron went to a stacked Heat team and even couldn't handle the heat in the Finals. It took him a long while to be that guy.

[hermanotarjeta]

Now this is news to me. Lebron told the Cavs to draft these players?

You can’t possibly be so naive.

Bron was cavs GM the day he was drafted.

[blackbears86]

I'm not sure Curry is super close....yet.

Would take at least 2 more titles and finals mvp as well as 3-4 more ++ regular seasons.

There's a reason 85% of basketball heads talk mj/lebron as top 2.

Even if you dont care for LeBron you gots to appreciate his greatness.




If it was up to blowout, he'd be outside the top 50:p:p

[BlueXtreme]

LeBron held himself back. He wasn't good enough to win a title. Hence why he sh't the bed vs the Mavs.

Nothing Cleveland would have done would have helped him. He had Boozer who went on and got better when leaving LeBron. He had Jamison, they even tried Shaq.

LeBron went to a stacked Heat team and even couldn't handle the heat in the Finals. It took him a long while to be that guy.

Boozer and Jamison have how many titles?

[imbluestreak23]

Chris Bosh. Champion
Kevin Love. Champion
DWade. Champion 2 more times.

Yeah. You right. Worse. Rings only matter as a counter argument to LeBron though. Right :)!

Geesh, that's how you look at it eh? Yeah, probably won't go anywhere.

I mean, I suppose MJ elevated 50 year old Robert Parrish in 95 too. GET IT OL' ROBBY!

[drobfan8]

So you’re saying Curry molded Draymond into the player he is?

This is some next level troll stuff right here.

Have you ever watched a Game where Steph is out injured and Dray is playing? It's ugly.

[blackbears86]

You can’t possibly be so naive.

Bron was cavs GM the day he was drafted.



I guess I am naive to think a second year player (lebron) told the Cavs to draft Luke Jackson with the 10th pick in 2004.:)!

[BlueXtreme]

I guess I am naive to think a second year player (lebron) told the Cavs to draft Luke Jackson with the 10th pick in 2004.:)!

I guess they didn't have scouts for this type of thing. Signs of a great organization

[blackbears86]

Wait, if the Cavs drafted garbage players, how in the world did they make it to the finals?

Oh yeah, back to the old Bron almomd hugger argument - he played with nobody, it was Bron versus five hall of famer player super teams and Bron was SO good he made it to the finals……just to lose again and again.



I've made myself very clear on these boards.

I think Lebron is crap as a person but easily top 3 all time in the NBA. And people who have actually played with him, former legends, HOFers agree.


you can now resume your bizarre hate fest.

[Braswell10]

What a garbage post.

What had the Dubs done before Steph? Nothing for a very long time.

To say he was drafted in to a better situation is so lolsy to me.

If you're gonna say that, surely LeBron got drafted in to a better situation seeing as the East was so bad hos first 7 years.

Steph's first 7 years he had to face really great teams in his conference.

It's amazing what happens if you put your ego aside and actually play for the team rather than yourself.

Man the one eyed takes are wild.

So Lebron was in a better situation because he was in the east? That’s all you got? Completely ignoring the aspects of the actual team he was drafted to.

I point out certain points and every time someone responds to one of my posts it’s a whole lot of deflections and random crap you throw together.

[Braswell10]

Have you ever watched a Game where Steph is out injured and Dray is playing? It's ugly.

That has nothing to do with my question. Obviously it will be rough, Draymond is not a scorer.:confused:

[Braswell10]

LeBron held himself back. He wasn't good enough to win a title. Hence why he sh't the bed vs the Mavs.

Nothing Cleveland would have done would have helped him. He had Boozer who went on and got better when leaving LeBron. He had Jamison, they even tried Shaq.

LeBron went to a stacked Heat team and even couldn't handle the heat in the Finals. It took him a long while to be that guy.

You point out Boozer and Jamison, and then expect that to be good enough to win?

At this point what are we even discussing on here?

[ballhawkdawk]

Well, eventually Klay and Draymond joined him. :)! So the Warriors drafted well.

Curry was hurt the first couple years. The franchise turned things around through drafting and building around him. Klay. Draymond. To a lesser degree Poole.

You can’t just look at the record. Have to look at ownership, drafting, and other things like cap space. All of that helped put Warriors and Curry into a position to succeed.

if we are comparing directly to Lebron, the Cavs ownership was a mess, their drafting was non existent, and they did a poor job managing cap space.

None of these are convincing arguments to support the claim that "Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted." That comment, to me, implies that Curry was drafted by a perennial playoff team, not an NBA bottom feeder. The Warriors finished 8th in 06-07. Prior to that, their most recent playoff appearance was the 93-94 season where they finished 6th. The Warriors were irrelevant before Curry and would still be irrelevant if it weren't for Curry. Klay and Draymond are good players, but so what? Lebron played with a lot of good players, too. So did Jordan.

It's almost like the Finals last year didn't happen where we watched Curry solo dominate the best defense in the league that had shut down Durant in the first round and eliminated the defending champ Bucks in the second. There's a lot of chatter about disrespect for Lebron, but there were people on BO actually suggesting Andrew Wiggins should've gotten the Finals MVP last year. Curry's superstar running mates Klay and Draymond shot 35.6% and 33.3% from the field that series, respectively, and this was with the benefit of Curry drawing double and triple teams all series long. This just happened less than a year ago, so I'm not sure if y'all just forgot or if it's simply inconvenient to acknowledge. As for Durant, he's played 15 seasons in the league and has won one game in the NBA Finals without playing alongside Curry. Curry is and always has been the bus driver for that team.

[BlueXtreme]

None of these are convincing arguments to support the claim that "Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted."

Actually, it does. He was drafted into a well-run organization that was capable and had the resources to put a team around him to support him and win. LeBron didn't have that luxury on the Cavs.

But let's return to this Curry vs LeBron all-time debate. You really have Curry over LeBron all-time?

[KhalDrogo]

But let's return to this Curry vs LeBron all-time debate. You really have Curry over LeBron all-time?
Yes. And after Curry beats LePuss this series, it won't even be a debate.

[BlueXtreme]

Yes. And after Curry beats LePuss this series, it won't even be a debate.

It won't be even if he wins. Because it's still LeBron.

[Braswell10]

Yes. And after Curry beats LePuss this series, it won't even be a debate.

Can’t take something like this serious. Of course if you refer to Lebron as LePuss, you are gonna take anyone else over him.

[KhalDrogo]

Can’t take something like this serious. Of course if you refer to Lebron as LePuss, you are gonna take anyone else over him.
MJ, Kobe, Curry, LeCCP. That's my ranking of players I would take in a pool of players who I have seen play.

[Asian62150]

Tim Duncan turned draft picks ginobili and Parker into hall of famers.

Lebron turned all the Cavs draft picks into zombies.

Great teammates enhance talent.

Soul suckers become cancers to their organizations.

That’s what Bron did in Cleveland.

No one wants to coach him.

No one wanted to be his teammate in Cleveland.

In your opinion, you're saying the 2007 Cavs would have had a better regular season record and greater postseason success (so the championship) without LeBron James on the team?

[ballhawkdawk]

Actually, it does. He was drafted into a well-run organization that was capable and had the resources to put a team around him to support him and win. LeBron didn't have that luxury on the Cavs.

But let's return to this Curry vs LeBron all-time debate. You really have Curry over LeBron all-time?

You can say he was drafted into a well run organization, but what is that based on? My argument to the contrary is based on a single eighth place finish in the 15 years prior to Curry being drafted. They drafted Klay 11th overall and Draymond 35th overall. Good for them. Ten other teams had an opportunity to draft Klay. What are these magic resources that no other team had? Cap space? That's silly. A lot of teams have had cap space over the years. Having cap space doesn't turn you into a dynasty.

I have no interest in changing topic by returning to the debate. Plenty of others on here will oblige, I'm sure.

[hermanotarjeta]

In your opinion, you're saying the 2007 Cavs would have had a better regular season record and greater postseason success (so the championship) without LeBron James on the team?

Obviously it’s all theoretical, but imo team players like Curry would have allowed the Cavs to evolve into a healthier long term success than selfish players like Bron, who are cancers to their organizations.

[ballhawkdawk]

In your opinion, you're saying the 2007 Cavs would have had a better regular season record and greater postseason success (so the championship) without LeBron James on the team?

I don't see anything resembling that assertion in the post you quoted.

BO gonna BO.

[BlueXtreme]

You can say he was drafted into a well run organization, but what is that based on? My argument to the contrary is based on a single eighth place finish in the 15 years prior to Curry being drafted. They drafted Klay 11th overall and Draymond 35th overall. Good for them. Ten other teams had an opportunity to draft Klay. What are these magic resources that no other team had? Cap space? That's silly. A lot of teams have had cap space over the years. Having cap space doesn't turn you into a dynasty.

I have no interest in changing topic by returning to the debate. Plenty of others on here will oblige, I'm sure.

It's based on the fact that they are now considered a dynasty.
Magic resources? Cap space? I said none of these things. They simply had the ability to see and draft better. They put pieces in place around him.

[Asian62150]

I don't see anything resembling that assertion in the post you quoted.

BO gonna BO.

It was in reference to the first post of his that I quoted where he said LeBron made his teammates worse.

BO gonna BO.

[hermanotarjeta]

Lebron plum pillows - please let me know what NBA coach is Lebron personally going to help get into the hall of fame?

I’m waiting.

[ballhawkdawk]

It's based on the fact that they are now considered a dynasty.
Magic resources? Cap space? I said none of these things. They simply had the ability to see and draft better. They put pieces in place around him.

Braswell said cap space.

As for the ability to see and draft better, that's an easy position to take given the success the Warriors have had since drafting Curry. If we ran an alternate simulation where the Wolves took Curry and the Warriors were left with Jonny Flynn, I don't think Flynn, Klay, or Draymond would be relevant today. Curry's greatness was inevitable. Exhibit A: 2021-22 Finals.

[ballhawkdawk]

It was in reference to the first post of his that I quoted where he said LeBron made his teammates worse.

BO gonna BO.

- Lebron makes his teammates worse
- The Cavs would've done better without Lebron

These statements aren't the same thing. Not even close, really.

[Braswell10]

Braswell said cap space.

As for the ability to see and draft better, that's an easy position to take given the success the Warriors have had since drafting Curry. If we ran an alternate simulation where the Wolves took Curry and the Warriors were left with Jonny Flynn, I don't think Flynn, Klay, or Draymond would be relevant today. Curry's greatness was inevitable. Exhibit A: 2021-22 Finals.

See but drafting and cap space are important because even though all teams have the chance to draft good players and make good cap decisions, they do not.

Yes, the Warriors were not very good when they drafted Curry, but they went on to make great moves that set them up for success, that, in my eyes, is a great situation to be in because while they were down when Curry came, they still looked towards the future by learning how to draft well and sign key contributors.

The Cavs have NEVER in their history been a good drafting team. In fact, besides no brainer #1 overall picks Lebron and Kyrie, they have been one of the worst drafting teams in NBA history. The Cavs also could not manage cap space and was finally one of the key reasons Lebron left them in the first place. They could not build a team around him, and the owner and GM are/were in the bottom tier of front offices in the NBA.

So when I take all of that into account, I think that is fair to say Curry was drafted into a better situation.

[JeremyNick]

He wasn't coddled enough... or he gave them adequate time and they did nothing?

He wasn’t coddled enough.

And he keeps jumping because ultimately “coddling enough” is a mark no one can actually touch with him.

He makes Charmin feel like sand paper.

[hermanotarjeta]

See but drafting and cap space are important because even though all teams have the chance to draft good players and make good cap decisions, they do not.

Yes, the Warriors were not very good when they drafted Curry, but they went on to make great moves that set them up for success, that, in my eyes, is a great situation to be in because while they were down when Curry came, they still looked towards the future by learning how to draft well and sign key contributors.

The Cavs have NEVER in their history been a good drafting team. In fact, besides no brainer #1 overall picks Lebron and Kyrie, they have been one of the worst drafting teams in NBA history. The Cavs also could not manage cap space and was finally one of the key reasons Lebron left them in the first place. They could not build a team around him, and the owner and GM are/were in the bottom tier of front offices in the NBA.

So when I take all of that into account, I think that is fair to say Curry was drafted into a better situation.

To be fair to the cavs, nobody drafted “well” in the several years after Bron was drafted if you want to look in retrospect.

Then again, it just shows how bereft of talent the NBA was until at least the Durant draft, and it demonstrates how easy a cake walk Lebron had making it deep into the eastern conference playoffs every year.

Had Lebron been a better team player, he should have won at least one ring with the Cavs the first time around.

[BlueXtreme]

To be fair to the cavs, nobody drafted “well” in the several years after Bron was drafted if you want to look in retrospect.

Then again, it just shows how bereft of talent the NBA was until at least the Durant draft, and it demonstrates how easy a cake walk Lebron had making it deep into the eastern conference playoffs every year.

Had Lebron been a better team player, he should have won at least one ring with the Cavs the first time around.

With who? Donyell Marshall? Sasha Pavlovic?

[Asian62150]

- Lebron makes his teammates worse
- The Cavs would've done better without Lebron

These statements aren't the same thing. Not even close, really.

I'm saying one leads to the other.

Let's play along and say LeBron is who hermano says he is.

-he makes his teammates worse
-he's the most selfish player in NBA history

If those things are true, then don't you think removing that player would improve the team? If one guy is dragging down 14 other high-level professional athletes and preventing them from reaching their potential, wouldn't the team be better served by removing said individual? Do any front office executives go into the offseason thinking "you know what we need to win a chip? A player who makes all the guys in our locker room worse."

And if that same guy is also the most selfish player in NBA history, then certainly the team chemistry/intangibles would also be much improved by removing him. I mean, I don't know any all-time selfish players who improved team chemistry.

[imbluestreak23]

Man, OG Ziggy, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, gettin' no respect in 2023

[GOATcards]

10 pages now, how is this even a thread :doh:

did it get sidetracked into a different topic, i.e., where each of these guys rank in the top-x given their achievements and blemishes

[GOATcards]

He’s not Lebron in terms of skill, Lebron is nothing compared to Steph in character.


we can peer into these men's souls

i need to take a bong hit

[blackbears86]

None of these are convincing arguments to support the claim that "Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted." That comment, to me, implies that Curry was drafted by a perennial playoff team, not an NBA bottom feeder. The Warriors finished 8th in 06-07. Prior to that, their most recent playoff appearance was the 93-94 season where they finished 6th. The Warriors were irrelevant before Curry and would still be irrelevant if it weren't for Curry. Klay and Draymond are good players, but so what? Lebron played with a lot of good players, too. So did Jordan.

It's almost like the Finals last year didn't happen where we watched Curry solo dominate the best defense in the league that had shut down Durant in the first round and eliminated the defending champ Bucks in the second. There's a lot of chatter about disrespect for Lebron, but there were people on BO actually suggesting Andrew Wiggins should've gotten the Finals MVP last year. Curry's superstar running mates Klay and Draymond shot 35.6% and 33.3% from the field that series, respectively, and this was with the benefit of Curry drawing double and triple teams all series long. This just happened less than a year ago, so I'm not sure if y'all just forgot or if it's simply inconvenient to acknowledge. As for Durant, he's played 15 seasons in the league and has won one game in the NBA Finals without playing alongside Curry. Curry is and always has been the bus driver for that team.





I think people aren't giving Draymond Green enough credit: He's been defensive player of the year once and in the top five multiple times since his rookie season. Klay's no slouch either.


I don't think Curry was "blessed" with a great situation, but he certainly benefited from several things happening at just the right time. (He got healthy from his chronic ankle injuries, and the drafting of Green/Thompson.)


Last year's MVP in the finals was well deserved for him, no doubt he was amazing. I'm not sure who won those early finals MVP's for the dubs (I think Iggy won one)

[GOATcards]

What’s the case for this look like? The Warriors were 29-53 before drafting Curry and 26-56 his rookie year. “Blessed with a great situation” is not the first thought that comes to mind.

the very essence of cherry-picking data points, don't you even see that?

WWBJOBD (What Would Bill James of Basketball Do)

[GOATcards]

Steph made all the folks who were drafted by the warriors subsequently BETTER players.

Bron sucked the souls out of all who were drafted by the Cavs. He blamed Cavs management when he left for Miami when all they did was do everything to build their team for HIM.

Bron’s legacy will always be the most selfishest player in NBA history.

As stated many times before - he has one of the greatest toolboxes in NBA history, his skill set is second to none.

But he will always be a coward and egomaniac from non-millennial eyes.

do you have any identity in this forum beyond the bron-trolling

[BlueXtreme]

I think people aren't giving Draymond Green enough credit: He's been defensive player of the year once and in the top five multiple times since his rookie season. Klay's no slouch either.


I don't think Curry was "blessed" with a great situation, but he certainly benefited from several things happening at just the right time. (He got healthy from his chronic ankle injuries, and the drafting of Green/Thompson.)


Last year's MVP in the finals was well deserved for him, no doubt he was amazing. I'm not sure who won those early finals MVP's for the dubs (I think Iggy won one)

Iggy, KD (I think). And, oh yeah. LeBron had more votes than Curry in a losing effort :p

[GOATcards]

Tim Duncan turned draft picks ginobili and Parker into hall of famers.

Lebron turned all the Cavs draft picks into zombies.

Great teammates enhance talent.

Soul suckers become cancers to their organizations.

That’s what Bron did in Cleveland.

No one wants to coach him.

No one wanted to be his teammate in Cleveland.

people responding to this trash is how the thread got to 10 pages? :doh::doh:

[GOATcards]

None ever developed with Bron, even though he hand picked them himself.


i guess if "legacy" includes front-office decisions or non-playing direction (Russell as coach, e.g.) then it would seem bron hasn't done much to credit him there. Same kind of problem in LA correct? other than acquiring SometimesHealthyBrow

[GOATcards]

-Kevin Love was on suicide watch
-Chris Bosh went from velociraptor to puppy dog
-DWade went from FMVP, baby MJ, to...hmm, a notch down

Kyrie did get elevated, but it's because he's a natural emotional beta and plays a good second fiddle. I don't know, nor care about the rest, but when actual stars join KANG, they take a step back. I don't in any way see how any PF has benefited from playing with KANG aside from Tristan Thompson as most "stars" that join are relegated to spot up shooters who get criticized when they don't deliver.

doesn't ring true in the case of the Brow

[hermanotarjeta]

With who? Donyell Marshall? Sasha Pavlovic?

Bron prune snugglers always devolve back to the same two-faced argument-

Bron gets credit for getting his team to the finals.

Teammates get the blame for losing the finals.

I have never once heard Bron bois balme Bron for losing a finals - ever. It’s always those darn lack of teammates.

How about for once giving Bron wnba teammates credit for helping Bron make the finals?

[GOATcards]

I've made myself very clear on these boards.

I think Lebron is crap as a person but easily top 3 all time in the NBA. And people who have actually played with him, former legends, HOFers agree.


you can now resume your bizarre hate fest.

easily top 4 anyway, and /thread

[GOATcards]

None of these are convincing arguments to support the claim that "Curry was blessed with a great situation by the team he was drafted." That comment, to me, implies that Curry was drafted by a perennial playoff team, not an NBA bottom feeder. The Warriors finished 8th in 06-07. Prior to that, their most recent playoff appearance was the 93-94 season where they finished 6th. The Warriors were irrelevant before Curry and would still be irrelevant if it weren't for Curry. Klay and Draymond are good players, but so what? Lebron played with a lot of good players, too. So did Jordan.

It's almost like the Finals last year didn't happen where we watched Curry solo dominate the best defense in the league that had shut down Durant in the first round and eliminated the defending champ Bucks in the second. There's a lot of chatter about disrespect for Lebron, but there were people on BO actually suggesting Andrew Wiggins should've gotten the Finals MVP last year. Curry's superstar running mates Klay and Draymond shot 35.6% and 33.3% from the field that series, respectively, and this was with the benefit of Curry drawing double and triple teams all series long. This just happened less than a year ago, so I'm not sure if y'all just forgot or if it's simply inconvenient to acknowledge. As for Durant, he's played 15 seasons in the league and has won one game in the NBA Finals without playing alongside Curry. Curry is and always has been the bus driver for that team.

for 2 of his rings he was definitely blessed with a fortunate situation
another 1 of his rings, he was blessed by injuries on the other side

/thread

[JeremyNick]

we can peer into these men's souls

i need to take a bong hit

Logic tracks.

[GOATcards]

Yes. And after Curry beats LePuss this series, it won't even be a debate.

i thought there were like 8 other players out there on the court?

[GOATcards]

MJ, Kobe, Curry, LeCCP. That's my ranking of players I would take in a pool of players who I have seen play.

LeCCP has so much career playoff VORP that it's ridiculous tho

[GOATcards]

regular season award shares:

Bron - 8.8
Steph - 2.7


finals MVPs:

Bron - 4
Steph - 1

and somehow this got to 10+ pages :eek: