PWE Problems

[Langsta09]

The last three cards I bought off Ebay have had cheap shipping, <$2 which is fine because the cards aren't highly sought after. My local post office however has mailed me the orange slip indicating not enough postage, so I have to pick it up and pay $4.55 or so for it. Ebay sellers say my Post office is to blame, so I talk to them and they say sorting cannot bend the PWE so it gets separated. I thought shipping was all about weight of the envelope, but they say no.
Is it worth complaining to Ebay, Pitney-Bowes, or the Post Office? All those seem like worm holes of nothing-ness. One seller comped my the extra postage, the other threw a fit and said my post office is ripping me off. BTW, the post office is for a town of 60K people.

Advice?

[JeffG1954]

The last three cards I bought off Ebay have had cheap shipping, <$2 which is fine because the cards aren't highly sought after. My local post office however has mailed me the orange slip indicating not enough postage, so I have to pick it up and pay $4.55 or so for it. Ebay sellers say my Post office is to blame, so I talk to them and they say sorting cannot bend the PWE so it gets separated. I thought shipping was all about weight of the envelope, but they say no.
Is it worth complaining to Ebay, Pitney-Bowes, or the Post Office? All those seem like worm holes of nothing-ness. One seller comped my the extra postage, the other threw a fit and said my post office is ripping me off. BTW, the post office is for a town of 60K people.

Advice?

For the ones that you did pick up and pay.....were they in PWE type envelopes or some kind of cardboard mailer? Were they in top loaders or card savers? How many cards in each envelope that you had to pay for?

Weight is one thing, but there are other potential problems if not done correctly.

[duwal]

yes we need to know further details on what you received

[Langsta09]

Each of the instances was just one card in a top loader. One was just a regular 20pt Chrome card, the others were either 59 or 79 point, nothing too thick.

One came in a white cardboard envelope and the others were just regular plain, white envelopes.

The Post Office said their separator bends them at a 90 degree angle and it's how these got separated. This seems like something new because this is only happened over the last 5-6 months. Sellers keep telling me PWE shipping works everywhere else.

Frustrating for me, and for sellers, who question my claims. Makes me not want to buy any more cards with shipping under $5.

[JeffG1954]

Each of the instances was just one card in a top loader. One was just a regular 20pt Chrome card, the others were either 59 or 79 point, nothing too thick.

One came in a white cardboard envelope and the others were just regular plain, white envelopes.

The Post Office said their separator bends them at a 90 degree angle and it's how these got separated. This seems like something new because this is only happened over the last 5-6 months. Sellers keep telling me PWE shipping works everywhere else.

Frustrating for me, and for sellers, who question my claims. Makes me not want to buy any more cards with shipping under $5.

The cardboard envelopes are hit an miss and the cause of most of the postage due problems that I have seen reported. Next leading cause is top loaders....they can be classified as too rigid and be rejected. The normal upcharge for a non-machinable envelope is usually less than $1, so not sure what your post office is doing charging you as much as you mentioned.

[RandysHobby]

That is 100% on your local PO. I’ve run into an issue twice shipping these PWEs on ebay and the two times was the same buyer in different occasions. His local PO, for whatever reason, doesn’t seem to accept the eBay standard PWE

[Archangel1775]

The Post Office said their separator bends them at a 90 degree angle and it's how these got separated. This seems like something new because this is only happened over the last 5-6 months. Sellers keep telling me PWE shipping works everywhere else..

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[CarmenOhio]

It's a local USPS issue. Been there, done that. Top loaders made them too rigid for my local USPS office's taste, so I got hit with the non-machinable surcharge of like 40 cents or whatever. Ended up having to switch to knockoff card savers since they're less rigid. No problems since.

Sitting on a full case of top loaders now that I use only for bubble mailers. Bunch of nonsense, but you won't beat USPS no matter how hard you try. Best just to accept it.

[Jolten Joe]

I just bought some of the Armalope envelopes so we will see how they do. Much sturdier than just a plain #6 pwe. Alot easier as well just peel and seal. If they work out well they will be my new go to for ebay standard envelope shipping and you get like 600 for $79 or 50 for $8.99

[JeffG1954]

I just bought some of the Armalope envelopes so we will see how they do. Much sturdier than just a plain #6 pwe. Alot easier as well just peel and seal. If they work out well they will be my new go to for ebay standard envelope shipping and you get like 600 for $79 or 50 for $8.99

I hope they work for you but won't be surprised if you get a few returned or a few delivered with postage due. It would be great if each post office were to treat each shipment the same, but we know that isn't the case.

[longhornjunkie]

$4.55 a pop is a joke. As someone said it should be about the price of another stamp. You may not be able to get around the issue completely but I'd get familiar with the non machinable surcharge and question them.

With all the horror stories I get scared sending anything more than 1 regular thickness card in a Card Saver II unless I go the non machinable route (talking about non-eBay sales). I've skated by with a Card Saver I containing a single thicker card or maybe two regular thickness cards. I don't get some of the sellers that brag how many cards they can cram in 1/3 of a 9-pocket page, etc. Seems to put the product and customer at risk, but they claim it works.

[shrevecity]

The cardboard mailer is likely too rigid even for standard pwe,so the upgrade is first class package. But the machines do not bend them to 90 degrees I think it has been said the biggest bend it 10 to 12 degrees. Most cards is card savers can survive a bend like that with no issue.

This is clearly an issue with your post office. I have shipped thousands of these and only had 2 kicked back it's almost always when they get to final stop.

[obadger]

So many fails with ESUS.

No tracking.
No USPS consistency.
Dishonest buyers.

For me, its gotten worse as of late. I think mostly dishonest buyers. With no tracking start to finish, how do you prove delivery? Right, you can't. I have never had one of these cards returned to me. Never updates to delivered. In 25 years selling I've only had a handful of 1st Class Mail issues. I'm sure PIP insurance is about tired of my claims by now.

Anyway, my 2 cents on subject.

[JeffG1954]

So many fails with ESUS.

No tracking.
No USPS consistency.
Dishonest buyers.

For me, its gotten worse as of late. I think mostly dishonest buyers. With no tracking start to finish, how do you prove delivery? Right, you can't. I have never had one of these cards returned to me. Never updates to delivered. In 25 years selling I've only had a handful of 1st Class Mail issues. I'm sure PIP insurance is about tired of my claims by now.

Anyway, my 2 cents on subject.

I guess it's just luck of the draw and could change, but this year has been so much better than last.....tracking updates on most(but not all), no damage claims at all.....even the ones with no tracking have given me positive feedback so I know the card arrived. Crossing fingers for it continue as is. Truth be told, I've had more problems with first class packages than ESE envelopes.

[jamcas997]

I guess it's just luck of the draw and could change, but this year has been so much better than last.....tracking updates on most(but not all), no damage claims at all.....even the ones with no tracking have given me positive feedback so I know the card arrived. Crossing fingers for it continue as is. Truth be told, I've had more problems with first class packages than ESE envelopes.

Over 14000 of these now and I think this is my score

3 damaged

4 returned for bad address

40 since I started tracking them in early 2022

2 Painters tape whiners

2 mad about a ESE PWE

[shrevecity]

So many fails with ESUS.

No tracking.
No USPS consistency.
Dishonest buyers.

For me, its gotten worse as of late. I think mostly dishonest buyers. With no tracking start to finish, how do you prove delivery? Right, you can't. I have never had one of these cards returned to me. Never updates to delivered. In 25 years selling I've only had a handful of 1st Class Mail issues. I'm sure PIP insurance is about tired of my claims by now.

Anyway, my 2 cents on subject.

You don't have to prove delivery. I personally very rarely file pip claims on them as it's not worth it 1 or 2 issues in around every 1000 sold does not concern my bottom line it has to generally be over 10.00. Many sellers are the same way I am. Then you have to figure based on posts here many sellers are unaware.

Ebay also will generally remove bad feedback and other defects related to ese shipments

[shrevecity]

I guess it's just luck of the draw and could change, but this year has been so much better than last.....tracking updates on most(but not all), no damage claims at all.....even the ones with no tracking have given me positive feedback so I know the card arrived. Crossing fingers for it continue as is. Truth be told, I've had more problems with first class packages than ESE envelopes.

Same here. I have 3 priority packages sitting in Coppell right now 2 are at 7 days another is at 5

[JeffG1954]

Same here. I have 3 priority packages sitting in Coppell right now 2 are at 7 days another is at 5

Of all of the post office locations my shipments have traveled thru, I have had more problems with Coppell than anywhere else....a place where packages go to die.

[shrevecity]

Of all of the post office locations my shipments have traveled thru, I have had more problems with Coppell than anywhere else....a place where packages go to die.

Yeah it's the black hole of the usps

[obadger]

You don't have to prove delivery. I personally very rarely file pip claims on them as it's not worth it 1 or 2 issues in around every 1000 sold does not concern my bottom line it has to generally be over 10.00. Many sellers are the same way I am. Then you have to figure based on posts here many sellers are unaware.

Ebay also will generally remove bad feedback and other defects related to ese shipments

Feel free to throw your money away, I choose not to. But I guess with your thousands of sales per day, you can afford to do that :rolleyes:

[Budler]

This has been talked about for years and many postings over that time. Over the many years I have send and received 1000s of PWE. I have had only 3 that postage due on them. I paid for one of them the others the postman did not ask for money just give them to me. The one I paid for I received another PWE with no postage due at the same time. One card in a top loader in both of them. His reply to how that happens was he had no idea.

Per a couple of my PO clerks:
1. They never mark incoming PWE postage due, It is mark that when they get it. Somewhere along the line someone felt it and marked it.

2. They will ask for more money if they feel a PWE when it is outgoing. So they stated to put it in the blue box outside of the PO. They do not touch it and then will not mark it postage due or ask for more money.

3. Most sites do not bend PWE at a 90deq there may be some older machinery. so a top loader will go through almost all sites.

4. Non-machinable PWE 90% of the time they will go through the machines even if the PO clerks marks them.

5. The next clerk or PO may give me a different answer.

Right now, outgoing mail is slower than incoming mail. 6 months ago, incoming mail as slower than outgoing mail. 4 to 5 days they hung up is somewhere in Denver Co.

I have shipped 17 cards in a #10 PWE with only one stamp and it got there without any postage due. More than once.

[shrevecity]

Feel free to throw your money away, I choose not to. But I guess with your thousands of sales per day, you can afford to do that :rolleyes:

Where did I say per day? As I said it's 1 or 2 per 1000 shipped that I ever have issue with. Average pwe is 3.00 for me so losing 6.00 out of 3000 in sales is whatever. I lose more with bubble mailers and priority over the course of a year. I was doing pwe on ebay long before the ese so I build the insurance into the price I charge buyers so that 10 cents I build on more than covers the losses

Last one I refunded was in January.

maybe the issue is in how you are shipping them. We have seen many sellers causing their own issues on these.

[rwperu34]

One thing I think for sure is you should alert the seller. Let them know what's happening and see if they'll ship it in a Card Saver and/or add the non machinable surcharge.

When I get one postage due I don't even pick it up unless I know exactly what it is. Then I contact the seller and let them know it's sitting at the PO with postage due and ask how they want me to proceed. In every single instance they've refunded whatever extra I had to pay. If they don't, or don't agree to, then I would not pick it up.

[shrevecity]

One thing I think for sure is you should alert the seller. Let them know what's happening and see if they'll ship it in a Card Saver and/or add the non machinable surcharge.

When I get one postage due I don't even pick it up unless I know exactly what it is. Then I contact the seller and let them know it's sitting at the PO with postage due and ask how they want me to proceed. In every single instance they've refunded whatever extra I had to pay. If they don't, or don't agree to, then I would not pick it up.


That depends on what tracking says. If it's ese and shows delivered then the seller can simply ignore you and ebay will side with them.

With other tracking the same thing could happen if the tracking does not say postage due. If it says at po with simply notice left ebay considers that delivered.

If you don't pick it up and it simply gets marked refused then again ebay considers it delivered unless it is clear the reason was for postage due.

Ebay also will never force a seller to refund a buyer for postage due. So as a buyer you have to be careful you could end up getting nothing doing this.

[Langsta09]

Thank you for everyone for the input/feedback. As much as it pains me to avoid cheap shipping options (<$2) going forward when purchasing cards, I'm done picking up cards from the Post Office.

[JeffG1954]

Thank you for everyone for the input/feedback. As much as it pains me to avoid cheap shipping options (<$2) going forward when purchasing cards, I'm done picking up cards from the Post Office.

It's not a problem....I know that I will get a message or two a month asking me if I would upgrade the shipping from ESE to First Class Package for a cheap card.....I don't mind at all as long as buyer is going to cover the increase. I just change the listing in question to the higher shipping cost, they hit the BIN and pay the total....everybody is happy.

[Mbsc707]

I had this exact same issue start in April after months of no issues. I was using the ebay branded brown envelope thinking I would protect the cards(s). Local post offices started to flip out. I switched to plain #10 envelope. Secure the card with painters tape on the left side of the envelope away from the postage, The envelope can now bend at 90 degrees. They all go through.

[longhornjunkie]

I had this exact same issue start in April after months of no issues. I was using the ebay branded brown envelope thinking I would protect the cards(s). Local post offices started to flip out. I switched to plain #10 envelope. Secure the card with painters tape on the left side of the envelope away from the postage, The envelope can now bend at 90 degrees. They all go through.

What type of holder do you use? Toploader?

[JeffG1954]

I had this exact same issue start in April after months of no issues. I was using the ebay branded brown envelope thinking I would protect the cards(s). Local post offices started to flip out. I switched to plain #10 envelope. Secure the card with painters tape on the left side of the envelope away from the postage, The envelope can now bend at 90 degrees. They all go through.

There are a couple of ESE/PWE threads on Blowout and they seem to agree that either a standard or #10 PWE is the way to go when using the ESE program on eBay. I use card savers, some use top loaders, but I have read that the top loaders can be classified as too rigid and will either get sent back or arrive with postage due. No reported problems with card savers/semi-rigids.