Ebay Changing Group Breaks

[mikejones]

The eBay trading cards community is filled with dedicated enthusiasts and fans looking to buy and sell in this category. With the growing popularity of case, box, and pack breaks we’re taking steps to give sellers and buyers an opportunity to participate in these live events.

Effective July 18, 2023 case, box, and pack breaks may only be sold by pre-approved sellers. Any live auctions underway can be completed but after July 18 you’ll no longer be able to start new break listings.

Sellers who have been pre-approved to sell live breaks will be contacted directly. We’re continuously working to support our trading card sellers. We’ll reach out if future opportunities open up for selling case, box, and pack breaks.

[glen87]

interesting....wonder what criteria they used to pre-approve sellers

[LittleJimmies]

interesting....wonder what criteria they used to pre-approve sellers

$$$$$

[ThoseBackPages]

Fanatics TV is smiling!

[Jolten Joe]

I just bought into a Random Team break for 1 box of Sapphire and 2 boxes each of Bowman Mega and Series 2 for a total of 5 boxes from ABC Trading Company which I assume is the same one that sells all the cheap trinket items in bulk. Never seen them in the trading card market before today.


All in all I'm not opposed to the new rule if it does away with all the guys doing breaks from their mom's basement with lighting that looks like they have a candle. And have no idea who the players are or what is even in the set they are breaking.

[kyle1707]

Fanatics TV is smiling!

It’s possibly fanatics doing

[KhalDrogo]

interesting....wonder what criteria they used to pre-approve sellers
Boomo is approved.

[bloodwings19]

Some of these Bowman Mega breaker crooks that get away with listings that only gives you Bowman 1st base cards. Like a 1st Bowman player card with no Mojo cards. I know some don't research when buying into breaks like this.

[Americards]

Some of these Bowman Mega breaker crooks that get away with listings that only gives you Bowman 1st base cards. Like a 1st Bowman player card with no Mojo cards. I know some don't research when buying into breaks like this.
which ones do that?
I would love to read their auctions

[rwperu34]

It’s possibly fanatics doing

This was my first thought. Fanatics lawyers contacted eBay's lawyers and now this.

[Jolten Joe]

I don't know about lawyers as in they would threaten legal action but i could see them coming to some type of agreement where only Fanatics approved breakers can list on ebay.

[JRX]

What grounds does ebay have to implement this? Do they need any grounds? Does this apply to any product that can be opened and split amongst multiple buyers or only trading cards?

[JRX]

I don't know about lawyers as in they would threaten legal action but i could see them coming to some type of agreement where only Fanatics approved breakers can list on ebay.

How long until only fanatics approved resellers are allowed to list singles?

[glen87]

Boomo is approved.

so no criteria at all :rolleyes:

[msink28]

I'm sure the amount of scamming that was going on from these breaks left eBay with little choice but to vet the breakers.

[SupermanBrandon]

You love to see it

[Blake050]

Ebay Changing Group Breaks

http://i.ibb.co/DpQH7KF/giphy22.gif

[Americards]

I can understand banning breakers who break 1 box with 7 cards and sells the spots to 32 teams

[seanbros55]

It’s be hilarious if Belly Shirt Breaks wasn’t approved…

[Dukefett]

What grounds does ebay have to implement this? Do they need any grounds? Does this apply to any product that can be opened and split amongst multiple buyers or only trading cards?


Preorders aren't 'allowed' on eBay despite them being there all over. You basically have to have what you're selling in hand and ship it and absolutely have to describe it accurately.

I can see breaks being huge issues for 'item not as described' returns. eBay doesn't take video as evidence for any disputes. Now are they going to have an eBay employee watch an hour long (or more) video to see if every Padres card that was pulled was sent to me if I bought that listing? I'm honestly kind of shocked they're going to work with these at all, but I guess limiting it to these groups will help and I have to imagine some added fees.

[Americards]

Preorders aren't 'allowed' on eBay despite them being there all over. You basically have to have what you're selling in hand and ship it and absolutely have to describe it accurately.

I wish they would not allow some pre-orders as ebay states the buyer has to receive the cards within 30 days but there are listings that say will deliver in 6-8 weeks..
But most breakers have the cards when the auction ends...

[sandyfrank]

How long until only fanatics approved resellers are allowed to list singles?


You joke but who knows with Fanatics, they could just buy eBay and there you go. Fanatics is a monster.

[mc1]

They should ban all breaker sales. A good number are scammers. I imagine they also had fraud from the customer side.

[dbackschamp2001]

Boomo is approved.

Is he still alive?

[dizzy4111]

Obviously Fanatics doing. But a good thing.

[Chrominator]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52978144213_74d3b134f6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oHuQxx)

[theshowandme]

No impact on my collecting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IronCladLou]

Finally a positive from Fanatics.

Won't be long before they control the breaking with a big Ebay partnership.

[fabiani12333]

Why did it take so long for these companies to get directly involved in box breaking? Is it because it was easy money before, but now with the market continuing to decline, they have to actually make an effort to secure their profits?

[speedyjg13]

You love to see it

You really do!

[Badgers0821]

Why did it take so long for these companies to get directly involved in box breaking? Is it because it was easy money before, but now with the market continuing to decline, they have to actually make an effort to secure their profits?

This and Fanatics is just growing their monopoly. Fanatics getting those contracts was probably the worst thing for the hobby, as I’ve been saying since the news broke. Now if they take over grading then it’ll be the Wild West. Collectors who think this won’t affect them are mistaken.

[nappyd]

You joke but who knows with Fanatics, they could just buy eBay and there you go. Fanatics is a monster.

No they couldn't. They're big but not easily buying a company worth $24 billion big.

[JRX]

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52978144213_74d3b134f6_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2oHuQxx)Let me place my order and get the box to open myself in minutes. You used to be able to do that by going to this thing called a store.

Sent from my SM-A546U1 using Tapatalk

[hairysasquatch]

Boomo is approved.

Oh, wow - that took me back! Is that gentleman still around??

[PumpnDumpling]

This and Fanatics is just growing their monopoly. Fanatics getting those contracts was probably the worst thing for the hobby, as I’ve been saying since the news broke. Now if they take over grading then it’ll be the Wild West. Collectors who think this won’t affect them are mistaken.

I would say people who buy into breaks (gambling addiction) have negatively impacted the hobby more so than any corporate acquisition

And the wild west is an allegorical representation of chaos/lack of law and order which is the opposite of what a monopoly is

As well, Grading premiums would evaporate if they weren't executed under a third party, even tupps/religious fanatics knows this

[clocsta2323]

Whenever I am down in life or depressed, I say to myself, "at least I don't buy into box/case breaks" and instantly feel better

[KhalDrogo]

Collectors who think this won’t affect them are mistaken.
Be careful not to project too much.

[fabiani12333]

So the rumor is eBay is only selecting maybe 10 breakers for approval. They were notified prior to the announcement and there isn't an approval process for breakers who weren't selected.

One of the SCR Brothers speculated that this change is due to liability concerns from eBay's lawyers, and that the breakers selected will have to sign a contract with eBay that has an indemnity clause.

Perhaps eBay is afraid of lawsuits from parents of underage kiddos getting hooked on eBay group breaks.

Maybe regulators are finally looking into treating group breaking as gambling and forcing companies to make changes.

There was a report that Upper Deck will make direct accounts who break their product give equal value to participants if they spend at least a $100 -- kind of crazy.

There's also the idea that Fanatics is behind this and it's part of their efforts to consolidate and control the hobby. That's probably the most likely answer, considering the National is coming up and there was a report that they might go public soon.

The rumors and speculation are heating up.

[AwesomeBrian]

I would say people who buy into breaks (gambling addiction) have negatively impacted the hobby more so than any corporate acquisition

And the wild west is an allegorical representation of chaos/lack of law and order which is the opposite of what a monopoly is

As well, Grading premiums would evaporate if they weren't executed under a third party, even tupps/religious fanatics knows this

Yeah it's horrible for the hobby when a person can buy just the team or player they want at a more affordable price than a full box or case. The nerve of some people!

[KhalDrogo]

Fanatics partnering with eBay didn’t make any sense a month ago, and certainly doesn’t make sense after the PWCC acquisition. The infrastructure for Fanatics to host group breaks directly on PWCC is practically there already. The only component missing is live streaming. I imagine that isn’t challenging to create. The break to vault, break to grade, break to auction, break to ship is already taken care of.

[KhalDrogo]

Yeah it's horrible for the hobby when a person can buy just the team or player they want at a more affordable price than a full box or case. The nerve of some people!
It is when the majority of people who participate in breaks today are innumerate.

[fabiani12333]

Fanatics partnering with eBay didn’t make any sense a month ago, and certainly doesn’t make sense after the PWCC acquisition. The infrastructure for Fanatics to host group breaks directly on PWCC is practically there already. The only component missing is live streaming. I imagine that isn’t challenging to create. The break to vault, break to grade, break to auction, break to ship is already taken care of.

Fanatics knows eBay is the leader in the collectibles market. They can make a partnership that is mutually beneficial.

[KhalDrogo]

Fanatics knows eBay is the leader in the collectibles market. They can make a partnership that is mutually beneficial.
If that is in the cards, why purchase PWCC?

You don’t purchase an auction house and vault to then partner with an auction house and vault.

[theshowandme]

Collectors who think this won’t affect them are mistaken.


I promise this has no impact on me as a collector.

[MattKC]

I don't believe Fanatics had anything to do with this decision by Ebay. Many on here probably do not remember that once upon a time, ebay did not allow breaks, and paypal frowned upon them as well. That is where the "if you don't hit any cards in the break, we will send you a signed 3x5 card from the breaker, or some base cards of the team you purchased" to comply with Ebays/paypals restrictions of having to actually ship something back then. Plus the fact paypal considered breaking to be gambling back then...until they saw how much they could profit from it.

If I recall it was around 2015/16 when restrictions were relaxed around breaking and the floodgates started to open. At that point it was simply a financial decision, ebay/paypal saw how much money breaks would pull in, and the fact a single product would generate 30 x fees if everyone purchased spots by team. Sell a box of cards to 1 person and ebay/paypal got the transaction fee once. Sell a break and they end up getting up to 30x that if a team break, higher if a player break.

I think what is happening now is that people have gotten desperate as prices have dropped since the peak and ebay is dealing with a flood of bad breakers and purchasers that are costing them a lot in charge backs and hassle dealing with them. Rather than continue they identified who was breaking, ran an algorithm on the profit/loss for each and identified the safest bets to continue going forward.

This will not end breaks, there are MANY breakers who do not utilize ebay to sell their spots. With ebays fees I have never understood why you would sell them there, especially at set price. If you run auctions I can see some benefit given how much some teams could go for, but there is risk too. Most established breakers know their customers, and know they will not get chargebacks, etc where as ebay you are dealing with a lot of unknowns.

I just don't see Fanatics fingerprints on this, this was a financial decision by ebay to limit their risk IMO.

[Americards]

So the rumor is eBay is only selecting maybe 10 breakers for approval. They were notified prior to the announcement and there isn't an approval process for breakers who weren't selected.

One of the SCR Brothers speculated that this change is due to liability concerns from eBay's lawyers, and that the breakers selected will have to sign a contract with eBay that has an indemnity clause.

Perhaps eBay is afraid of lawsuits from parents of underage kiddos getting hooked on eBay group breaks.

Maybe regulators are finally looking into treating group breaking as gambling and forcing companies to make changes.

There was a report that Upper Deck will make direct accounts who break their product give equal value to participants if they spend at least a $100 -- kind of crazy.

There's also the idea that Fanatics is behind this and it's part of their efforts to consolidate and control the hobby. That's probably the most likely answer, considering the National is coming up and there was a report that they might go public soon.

The rumors and speculation are heating up.
Kiddos are not allowed to have an ebay account unless they are 18 years old, so their parents should know what they are buying if it's the adults account.

[fabiani12333]

If that is in the cards, why purchase PWCC?

You don’t purchase an auction house and vault to then partner with an auction house and vault.

Because Fanatics knows they can't overtake eBay anytime soon. eBay has a massive constumer base and brand awareness. So Fanatics forms a partnership with them instead of directly competing with them.

Comc sells on eBay, even though they have their own marketplace and card storage.

eBay's vault hasn't taken off. So they aren't challenging PWCC's vault.

[mc1]

Yeah it's horrible for the hobby when a person can buy just the team or player they want at a more affordable price than a full box or case. The nerve of some people!

How about when they get some random team! Thats totally not gambling at all.

[notoriousrmb]

All the rampant speculation on here is hilarious. Never seen more hot takes, wrong info and snarky comments backing up these false concepts in one place.

Give it a month and we'll see what is actually coming of this.

[Badgers0821]

I promise this has no impact on me as a collector.

Oh, do you pinky swear?

[Badgers0821]

I would say people who buy into breaks (gambling addiction) have negatively impacted the hobby more so than any corporate acquisition

And the wild west is an allegorical representation of chaos/lack of law and order which is the opposite of what a monopoly is

As well, Grading premiums would evaporate if they weren't executed under a third party, even tupps/religious fanatics knows this

Be careful about adding addiction in there. Is it gambling? Sure, anyone who opens a single pack of any sports card product is gambling, but to assume everyone who has ever been in a break or opened a pack is an addict just makes you sound ignorant and self-righteous.

[JRX]

Won't this end up suppressing box prices some if only a few people are allowed to break via ebay auctions?

Also, is this fanatics breaking going to be 24/7? At least drug dealers go to sleep. Is it the fact that there's no guaranteed value on any card that prevents this from just being a lottery even though there is perceived value? What's the difference if instead of pictures of players on the front, they had dollar amounts? Maybe this box has the $100k prize, or maybe its filled with a bunch of $0.10 cards, etc.

[JRX]

Be careful about adding addiction in there. Is it gambling? Sure, anyone who opens a single pack of any sports card product is gambling, but to assume everyone who has ever been in a break or opened a pack is an addict just makes you sound ignorant and self-righteous.

Some people open boxes because they like to build sets.

[notoriousrmb]

Be careful about adding addiction in there. Is it gambling? Sure, anyone who opens a single pack of any sports card product is gambling, but to assume everyone who has ever been in a break or opened a pack is an addict just makes you sound ignorant and self-righteous.

So true. There is a select group on people on here that have a break-bashing fetish. Doesn't matter the topic, they will blame breakers.

Breaking is just one more form of opening packs. Going to Target and buying a blaster is a gamble too. Heck so is eating at most fast food restaurants.

It's amazing how angry some people get at things, completely takes over their thoughts and they just want to rage online.

If you don't like breaks, don't do them. If you do, have fun.

Same things can be said about people who do or do not grade cards, vintage only collectors, retail buyers, the list goes on forever. The hobby is not and will not be what it once was. Everyone has a choice, partake in this new version or go find something else to do.

Making up rumors and insulting people online is the weakest of choices, and the people who have nothing better to do really out themselves as lowest class individuals.

[KhalDrogo]

Because Fanatics knows they can't overtake eBay anytime soon. eBay has a massive constumer base and brand awareness. So Fanatics forms a partnership with them instead of directly competing with them.

Comc sells on eBay, even though they have their own marketplace and card storage.

eBay's vault hasn't taken off. So they aren't challenging PWCC's vault.
COMC doesn’t have an auction house. COMC is not the juggernaut that Fanatics is. It’s not comparable.

[KhalDrogo]

All the rampant speculation on here is hilarious. Never seen more hot takes, wrong info and snarky comments backing up these false concepts in one place.

Give it a month and we'll see what is actually coming of this.
You’re gullible enough to believe that Griezmann hit the Jackie cut fair and square.

:cry:

[notoriousrmb]

You’re gullible enough to believe that Griezmann hit the Jackie cut fair and square.

:cry:


Probably one of the biggest keyboard warriors on the site.

Curious, what is your experience in this hobby on the business side? Do you own a shop? Do you have any direct accounts? Tax ID? Relationships with manufacturers? Anything?

Or do you just come on here and try to make 100 mocking posts each day actually knowing nothing beyond what you feel is true?

Seriously, why are you always so angry and condescending? As much hate as you interject into these threads, why do you continue to partake in something such as card collecting? Probably not good for your health.

[KhalDrogo]

Probably one of the biggest keyboard warriors on the site.

Curious, what is your experience in this hobby on the business side? Do you own a shop? Do you have any direct accounts? Tax ID? Relationships with manufacturers? Anything?

Or do you just come on here and try to make 100 mocking posts each day actually knowing nothing beyond what you feel is true?

Seriously, why are you always so angry and condescending? As much hate as you interject into these threads, why do you continue to partake in something such as card collecting? Probably not good for your health.
I am honest. You are angry. Take a look at your posts buddy.

And didn’t realize I needed to be a professional cardboard guy to comment on this site.

[notoriousrmb]

I am honest. You are angry. Take a look at your posts buddy.

And didn’t realize I needed to be a professional cardboard guy to comment on this site.

Nah, you are snarky and condescending, maybe that is honestly you in real life. Try to spin it as you want, but the ego shows pal. I mean, you even call yourself "Khal"...

Anyone ever watch the "Average Redditor" posts on TikTok? Pretty sure that is Khal.

[auctionjmm]

Kiddos are not allowed to have an ebay account unless they are 18 years old, so their parents should know what they are buying if it's the adults account.

I opened my eBay account just shy of my 15th birthday, but I imagine back in 1999 there may have been more loopholes. I actually had a checking account, credit card, and eBay account all before 15 and no parent signature required. I kinda miss those days!

[KhalDrogo]

I mean, you even call yourself "Khal"...
:cry:

Holy cow. Does this mean you call yourself “notorious”?

[notoriousrmb]

:cry:

Holy cow. Does this mean you call yourself “notorious”?

All day every day. At least I can admit when I'm a blowhard. Maybe you should try it, it'll help get that post count up too.

[KhalDrogo]

All day every day. At least I can admit when I'm a blowhard. Maybe you should try it, it'll help get that post count up too.
All this sensitivity stemming from you disagreeing with the notion that group breakers get special treatment from Panini, Fanatics, etc.

:cry:

[fabiani12333]

So true. There is a select group on people on here that have a break-bashing fetish. Doesn't matter the topic, they will blame breakers.

Breaking is just one more form of opening packs. Going to Target and buying a blaster is a gamble too. Heck so is eating at most fast food restaurants.

It's amazing how angry some people get at things, completely takes over their thoughts and they just want to rage online.

If you don't like breaks, don't do them. If you do, have fun.

Same things can be said about people who do or do not grade cards, vintage only collectors, retail buyers, the list goes on forever. The hobby is not and will not be what it once was. Everyone has a choice, partake in this new version or go find something else to do.

Making up rumors and insulting people online is the weakest of choices, and the people who have nothing better to do really out themselves as lowest class individuals.

Let's not kid ourselves, group breaks are designed to appeal to compulsive gamblers. Science has shown certain people are predisposed to gambling addiction. It's why a certain segment of trading card consumers continue to buy into breaks even though it's literally throwing money away -- they can't help themselves.

[notoriousrmb]

All this sensitivity stemming from you disagreeing with the notion that group breakers get special treatment from Panini, Fanatics, etc.

:cry:

Most group breakers do not, Fanatics have a small, select group they work with. Not sure what you are rambling about?

[notoriousrmb]

Let's not kid ourselves, group breaks are designed to appeal to compulsive gamblers. Science has shown certain people are predisposed to gambling addiction. It's why a certain segment of trading card consumers continue to buy into breaks even though it's literally throwing money away -- they can't help themselves.

That's cards in general, I mean they have odds on packs. I used to watch guys in a shop rip through case after case until 2 am, had nothing to do with breaks. Upper Deck's epack, easy access all day and all night, nothing to do with breaks. Its just the industry.

[fabiani12333]

I opened my eBay account just shy of my 15th birthday, but I imagine back in 1999 there may have been more loopholes. I actually had a checking account, credit card, and eBay account all before 15 and no parent signature required. I kinda miss those days!

I think it was about the same time and same age for me as well. I remember borrowing my dad's credit card to make a purchase, though. I learned how to buy on eBay before I learned personal financial responsibility.

[Americards]

How about when they get some random team! Thats totally not gambling at all.
Random breaks are not supposed to be allowed on the ebay platform...
They have to be reported to be taken down..

[Bcwcardz]

eBay’s preferred breakers [emoji23][emoji23]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230616/b99d7945d78748b2ffbfe593623a5504.webp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[auctionjmm]

I think it was about the same time and same age for me as well. I remember borrowing my dad's credit card to make a purchase, though. I learned how to buy on eBay before I learned personal financial responsibility.

I have amazing parents, but they definitely put more trust in me than would be normal at that age lol. It definitely taught me to be independent though. We were a $5/week allowance type of family which I guess $5 in the 90's wasn't horrible but if I wanted something bigger I needed to earn the money for it and that's how I got into cards in the first place. The IP auto craze is where I did my best though. Again, not many 16 year olds are allowed to drive 45 minutes to a minor league stadium for autographs, but they let me. I didn't ask them for money until my mid 20's when real adult stuff started happening that I wasn't prepared for (major surgery and car repairs). So my only regret from being young was not saving more for when I was really gonna need it. But you don't necessarily think about that stuff as a teenager.

[Americards]

Let's not kid ourselves, group breaks are designed to appeal to compulsive gamblers. Science has shown certain people are predisposed to gambling addiction. It's why a certain segment of trading card consumers continue to buy into breaks even though it's literally throwing money away -- they can't help themselves.
Depends on the break...
Would you say it is gambling if you are buying into a 3 box break of Topps Series 2 and get to bid the price you want of your team?
A Rockies collector could win 3 boxes worth of Rockies card for the price of 2 packs of cards (plus shipping) and get almost 3 team sets and possibly get inserts..
Is that collector really gambling? or buying what he know he will get plus getting a chance at inserts/parallels of his team.. (Just like opening a pack of cards)
Yes, some team will be higher based on what is possible of hits or better rookies etc...But the bidder has the choice of bidding what he wants to...
Random breaks are for gamblers...


I do not believe random breaks should be on ebay...
or team/player breaks that everyone will not get a card, like doing a 1 box break of Topps 5 Star baseball that has less than 5 cards and sell to 30 teams..

[JRX]

Depends on the break...
Would you say it is gambling if you are buying into a 3 box break of Topps Series 2 and get to bid the price you want of your team?
A Rockies collector could win 3 boxes worth of Rockies card for the price of 2 packs of cards (plus shipping) and get almost 3 team sets and possibly get inserts..
Is that collector really gambling? or buying what he know he will get plus getting a chance at inserts/parallels of his team.. (Just like opening a pack of cards)
Yes, some team will be higher based on what is possible of hits or better rookies etc...But the bidder has the choice of bidding what he wants to...
Random breaks are for gamblers...


I do not believe random breaks should be on ebay...
or team/player breaks that everyone will not get a card, like doing a 1 box break of Topps 5 Star baseball that has less than 5 cards and sell to 30 teams..

A person that buys into breaks because they collect rockies is one thing. We all know that there aren't tons of dbacks fans, but people will bid up and buy into dback bowman breaks to pull Druw Jones even though he's currently on milk cartons.

[DrSatanicus]

Be careful about adding addiction in there. Is it gambling? Sure, anyone who opens a single pack of any sports card product is gambling, but to assume everyone who has ever been in a break or opened a pack is an addict just makes you sound ignorant and self-righteous.

With deflection like that, sounds like you might need a Breakers Anonymous meeting right now.

There's one going on at the local bingo hall every Friday at 7pm.

[SupermanBrandon]

With deflection like that, sounds like you might need a Breakers Anonymous meeting right now.

There's one going on at the local bingo hall every Friday at 7pm.

Well I mean, he's an actual breaker. He's not gambling, he's selling the game to them.

[Americards]

A person that buys into breaks because they collect rockies is one thing. We all know that there aren't tons of dbacks fans, but people will bid up and buy into dback bowman breaks to pull Druw Jones even though he's currently on milk cartons.
But the difference is they have a choice to bid on the Dbacks, in a Random break, will the Rockies collector pay $30 in a random break to hope he hits the Rockies team? I doubt it.

In Random baseball breaks, there are 30 gamblers hoping to hit one of the best 2 or 3 teams, if they don't.. IMO, Not many team buyers get in those random breaks.

[bub838]

I opened my eBay account just shy of my 15th birthday, but I imagine back in 1999 there may have been more loopholes. I actually had a checking account, credit card, and eBay account all before 15 and no parent signature required. I kinda miss those days!

I opened my ebay account around the same time and age as well. I distinctly remember riding my bike to purchase money orders for the things I bought on eBay.

[fabiani12333]

Depends on the break...
Would you say it is gambling if you are buying into a 3 box break of Topps Series 2 and get to bid the price you want of your team?
A Rockies collector could win 3 boxes worth of Rockies card for the price of 2 packs of cards (plus shipping) and get almost 3 team sets and possibly get inserts..
Is that collector really gambling? or buying what he know he will get plus getting a chance at inserts/parallels of his team.. (Just like opening a pack of cards)
Yes, some team will be higher based on what is possible of hits or better rookies etc...But the bidder has the choice of bidding what he wants to...
Random breaks are for gamblers...


I do not believe random breaks should be on ebay...
or team/player breaks that everyone will not get a card, like doing a 1 box break of Topps 5 Star baseball that has less than 5 cards and sell to 30 teams..

I see what you're saying. If you collect cards of a specific team, buying into team breaks can be a tailored way of opening packs. But the key part is you're a collector who wants the cards for a collection -- not primarily for their value.

[JRX]

I wonder if the fanatics will give their breakers industrial shredders so they won't even have to bother with shipping most of the cards. Just give credit to the next break if you agree to trash everything you got in the last one.

[cholodolo]

Shocked to find breakers insisting that anyone who opens a random pack of cards (at any age) is also GAMBLING..:cry::cry::cry:

Cope and seethe -- you're no different than pill pushers at the end of the day.

[PumpnDumpling]

Be careful about adding addiction in there. Is it gambling? Sure, anyone who opens a single pack of any sports card product is gambling, but to assume everyone who has ever been in a break or opened a pack is an addict just makes you sound ignorant and self-righteous.

The only one saying this is you silly, try reading my previous statement a second or third time if necessary without getting your pantaloons in a twister (defensive)

[Jolten Joe]

Well this thread turned into a dumpster fire real quick :coffee:

[Badgers0821]

I see what you're saying. If you collect cards of a specific team, buying into team breaks can be a tailored way of opening packs. But the key part is you're a collector who wants the cards for a collection -- not primarily for their value.

This was the reason breaks were started in the first place.

[Badgers0821]

The only one saying this is you silly, try reading my previous statement a second or third time if necessary without getting your pantaloons in a twister (defensive)

I don’t know how else to interpret, “I would say people buying into breaks (gambling addiction)”. Literally calling anyone who has bought into a break a gambling addict, which makes zero sense. I understand you dislike breakers and people who get into breaks and that’s fine, but tone down the rhetoric. You’re going a little off the reservation here (another Wild West reference for you).

How is challenging something you say being defensive? I think you misused that word. You are too funny. I appreciate the candor though.

[Badgers0821]

Well this thread turned into a dumpster fire real quick :coffee:

What do you expect, it’s basically republicans vs democrats on here.

[tyrith]

Depends on the break...
Would you say it is gambling if you are buying into a 3 box break of Topps Series 2 and get to bid the price you want of your team?
A Rockies collector could win 3 boxes worth of Rockies card for the price of 2 packs of cards (plus shipping) and get almost 3 team sets and possibly get inserts..
Is that collector really gambling? or buying what he know he will get plus getting a chance at inserts/parallels of his team.. (Just like opening a pack of cards)
Yes, some team will be higher based on what is possible of hits or better rookies etc...But the bidder has the choice of bidding what he wants to...
Random breaks are for gamblers...


I do not believe random breaks should be on ebay...
or team/player breaks that everyone will not get a card, like doing a 1 box break of Topps 5 Star baseball that has less than 5 cards and sell to 30 teams..

The big question, as far as EBay is concerned, is whether PYT breaks are LEGALLY gambling, and I suspect (IANAL though) that the answer is yes from when I was looking at this issue a couple of years ago.

[PumpnDumpling]

I don’t know how else to interpret, “I would say people buying into breaks (gambling addiction)”. Literally calling anyone who has bought into a break a gambling addict, which makes zero sense. I understand you dislike breakers and people who get into breaks and that’s fine, but tone down the rhetoric. You’re going a little off the reservation here (another Wild West reference for you).

How is challenging something you say being defensive? I think you misused that word. You are too funny. I appreciate the candor though.

The only one saying this is you, my guy

I have nothing against you, sports or non-sports breaking or those who decide to spend their money this way

I don't know a thing about you as a poster/person/human being, to me you essentially don't even exist so not sure why you would think there would be animus between us

I simply stated that breaking has been more detrimental to the hobby than any corporate acquisition from my perspective

You are getting butt hurt (defensive) and everyone here sees it as this is your low hanging bread n butter but i don't fault you for it (breaking), get that cheddar son!

[mc1]

This was the reason breaks were started in the first place.

https://media.tenor.com/TaPEKtcLIm8AAAAd/will-ferrell.gif

[notoriousrmb]

The only one saying this is you, my guy

I have nothing against you, sports or non-sports breaking or those who decide to spend their money this way

I don't know a thing about you as a poster/person/human being, to me you essentially don't even exist so not sure why you would think there would be animus between us

I simply stated that breaking has been more detrimental to the hobby than any corporate acquisition from my perspective

You are getting butt hurt (defensive) and everyone here sees it as this is your low hanging bread n butter but i don't fault you for it (breaking), get that cheddar son!

Forgive me for third wheeling this feces throwing, but you did label anyone buying into breaks as addicts.

I would say people who buy into breaks (gambling addiction) have negatively impacted the hobby more so than any corporate acquisition



So yes, Badgers is being defensive, but you threw the first stone and labeled a group of people participating in the hobby in a way you don't like as addicts.

Honestly, anyone in this hobby opening packs, boxes or cases is taking a gamble. Even for the "collectors" you are gambling you hit a card you want. It's not break specific, its the whole industry.

[DrSatanicus]

Well I mean, he's an actual breaker. He's not gambling, he's selling the game to them.

Playing Devil's advocate, eh?

I like it.

[auctionjmm]

I simply stated that breaking has been more detrimental to the hobby than any corporate acquisition from my perspective


Do you think this detriment is more due to advances in technology or does it go deeper? People have said that streaming and MP3s killed the music industry but there was no stopping that train. Musicians pivoted by touring more, releasing more "singles", and venturing into other businesses. Advocates have argued that streaming invigorated music by giving more musicians a platform to release content without the overhead of a label.

Not necessarily apples to apples in terms of business model but in terms of technology (being able to watch a live stream and have cards delivered to your door as opposed to opening the box yourself at a card shop), or being able to buy one team as opposed to a whole box or case (similar to downloading 1 song instead of buying an entire album if you don't actually want the whole album).

To bring it full circle, I listen to far more music now than ever before because I have been exposed to musicians that I never would have found if I was going into Coconuts to buy a cd in 1996. I think breaking similarly has brought more people into the hobby because they can watch dozens of products opened and maybe some pique their interest that they otherwise wouldn't have taken a second look at if buying packs or boxes at the store.

I'll also argue with myself here and admit that while music is significantly cheaper in 2023, cards are not. Music supply is unlimited whereas card supply is very finite. So supply and demand (and monopolization) are more prevalent in cards.

I'm torn because part of me feels like cards are "cool" again and the hobby is more mainstream. Larger attendance at shows, more buyers, more interest. This of course, comes at the expense of higher prices, greed, and fraud. If breaking never existed would the hobby truly be healthier? It's an interesting discussion.

[Badgers0821]

With deflection like that, sounds like you might need a Breakers Anonymous meeting right now.

There's one going on at the local bingo hall every Friday at 7pm.

It blows my mind how people misuse the language, deflection doesn’t mean what you think it does tough guy :)!

[Badgers0821]

The only one saying this is you, my guy

I have nothing against you, sports or non-sports breaking or those who decide to spend their money this way

I don't know a thing about you as a poster/person/human being, to me you essentially don't even exist so not sure why you would think there would be animus between us

I simply stated that breaking has been more detrimental to the hobby than any corporate acquisition from my perspective

You are getting butt hurt (defensive) and everyone here sees it as this is your low hanging bread n butter but i don't fault you for it (breaking), get that cheddar son!

I have no issue with you except for your passive aggressive, back/handed attempts at insults. You are still ignoring the entire reason I mentioned your post, so if your going to do that we can all just move along.

[JRX]

How long before Fanatics does "box wars" that got popular during 2019 sapphire?

[DrSatanicus]

It blows my mind how people misuse the language, deflection doesn’t mean what you think it does tough guy :)!

Is that a fact? Psychologically speaking?

Why don't you explain it to me.

English lessons from someone who's on the same existential plane as a drug dealer always brighten my day.

[atk825]

Shocked to find breakers insisting that anyone who opens a random pack of cards (at any age) is also GAMBLING..:cry::cry::cry:

Cope and seethe -- you're no different than pill pushers at the end of the day.

I mean except for the death and physical addiction.

[Badgers0821]

Well I mean, he's an actual breaker. He's not gambling, he's selling the game to them.

I may be a breaker but I am extremely small time compared to most, it is not my “job”.

[SupermanBrandon]

Do you think this detriment is more due to advances in technology or does it go deeper? People have said that streaming and MP3s killed the music industry but there was no stopping that train. Musicians pivoted by touring more, releasing more "singles", and venturing into other businesses. Advocates have argued that streaming invigorated music by giving more musicians a platform to release content without the overhead of a label.

Not necessarily apples to apples in terms of business model but in terms of technology (being able to watch a live stream and have cards delivered to your door as opposed to opening the box yourself at a card shop), or being able to buy one team as opposed to a whole box or case (similar to downloading 1 song instead of buying an entire album if you don't actually want the whole album).

To bring it full circle, I listen to far more music now than ever before because I have been exposed to musicians that I never would have found if I was going into Coconuts to buy a cd in 1996. I think breaking similarly has brought more people into the hobby because they can watch dozens of products opened and maybe some pique their interest that they otherwise wouldn't have taken a second look at if buying packs or boxes at the store.

I'll also argue with myself here and admit that while music is significantly cheaper in 2023, cards are not. Music supply is unlimited whereas card supply is very finite. So supply and demand (and monopolization) are more prevalent in cards.

I'm torn because part of me feels like cards are "cool" again and the hobby is more mainstream. Larger attendance at shows, more buyers, more interest. This of course, comes at the expense of higher prices, greed, and fraud. If breaking never existed would the hobby truly be healthier? It's an interesting discussion.

My comment here is solely from the perspective of record labels (which would equate our Topps/Fanatics/Panini). I can tell you from first hand experience that the music industry was initially scared to death of the digital age. They fought it tooth and nail. Fast forward 15 years later...labels are making more money than ever. Less manufacturing costs, less hard goods to distribute, less retail returns/shipping/etc. Less money begging radio to play your music when you can just use the artists socials to see what sticks. Less money spent on marketing as they are just depending on the artists to market via their socials, touring, etc (ie Breakers/Influencers). Labels are doing far less than they've ever had to do, while making more than they've ever made. Own the material and put the work on your "partners".

[cholodolo]

Forgive me for third wheeling this feces throwing, but you did label anyone buying into breaks as addicts.



So yes, Badgers is being defensive, but you threw the first stone and labeled a group of people participating in the hobby in a way you don't like as addicts.

Honestly, anyone in this hobby opening packs, boxes or cases is taking a gamble. Even for the "collectors" you are gambling you hit a card you want. It's not break specific, its the whole industry.

So now everyone who opens or collects cards is gambling? Why? Because group breakers turned opening trading cards as a hobby into a work-from-home pandemic cash cow? Nah, piss off with that.

I've bought into breaks before -- wanted base cards and inserts of the Venezuelan national team. Paid 30 bucks for a case break and ended up with 25-30 cards. Is that gambling? Difficult to see it that way...that seems like the origins of breaking many have discussed here.

It is the evolution of breaking from 2020-2023 that draws so much negativity and accusations of gambling/degenerate behavior from various corners of this hobby.

I'm shocked to read people arguing against it. The degenerate behavior is clear as day -- don't try and muddy the waters with such BS that Timmy opening a pack of UD Series 1 is "gambling" for a card.

[Badgers0821]

Is that a fact? Psychologically speaking?

Why don't you explain it to me.

English lessons from someone who's on the same existential plane as a drug dealer always brighten my day.

Sorry man, not wasting my energy on someone with 6 posts who clearly has zero frame of reference. Troll elsewhere please.

[KnoxVegas Matt]

I opened my ebay account around the same time and age as well. I distinctly remember riding my bike to purchase money orders for the things I bought on eBay.

LOL, I forgot about going to the grocery store to get Western Union money orders!

[MoreToppsPlease]

I wonder if the fanatics will give their breakers industrial shredders so they won't even have to bother with shipping most of the cards. Just give credit to the next break if you agree to trash everything you got in the last one.

Technically there’s zero reason for Fanatics to hold breaks at all, they could just directly snail mail cards in a simple vending box or brick and forego traditional packaging.

For that matter, casinos could cut out all their games and just give money to winners (or not to losers) based on results from a simple random number generator.

[MoreToppsPlease]

LOL, I forgot about going to the grocery store to get Western Union money orders!

And books of stamps, security envelopes :eek:

[PumpnDumpling]

Forgive me for third wheeling this feces throwing, but you did label anyone buying into breaks as addicts.



So yes, Badgers is being defensive, but you threw the first stone and labeled a group of people participating in the hobby in a way you don't like as addicts.

Honestly, anyone in this hobby opening packs, boxes or cases is taking a gamble. Even for the "collectors" you are gambling you hit a card you want. It's not break specific, its the whole industry.

Let me help you understand my point of view so we can all move on from this exhilarating topic.

I did NOT INTEND to label EVERYONE as gambling addicts by adding (gambling addiction) next to the word breaking but as to insinuate that those in the throes of a gambling addiction are a massive element in this game (breaking) and to deny this is dishonest

Moreover, my statement still stands as it was written as i believe in general, BREAKING HAS BEEN MORE DETRIMENTAL TO THIS HOBBY THAN ANY CORPORATE ACQUISITION FROM MY PERSPECTIVE

[bub838]

Well this thread turned into a dumpster fire real quick :coffee:

Out of any of the hobbies I participate in, trading cards far and away has the most miserable people.

[PumpnDumpling]

Do you think this detriment is more due to advances in technology or does it go deeper? People have said that streaming and MP3s killed the music industry but there was no stopping that train. Musicians pivoted by touring more, releasing more "singles", and venturing into other businesses. Advocates have argued that streaming invigorated music by giving more musicians a platform to release content without the overhead of a label.

Not necessarily apples to apples in terms of business model but in terms of technology (being able to watch a live stream and have cards delivered to your door as opposed to opening the box yourself at a card shop), or being able to buy one team as opposed to a whole box or case (similar to downloading 1 song instead of buying an entire album if you don't actually want the whole album).

To bring it full circle, I listen to far more music now than ever before because I have been exposed to musicians that I never would have found if I was going into Coconuts to buy a cd in 1996. I think breaking similarly has brought more people into the hobby because they can watch dozens of products opened and maybe some pique their interest that they otherwise wouldn't have taken a second look at if buying packs or boxes at the store.

I'll also argue with myself here and admit that while music is significantly cheaper in 2023, cards are not. Music supply is unlimited whereas card supply is very finite. So supply and demand (and monopolization) are more prevalent in cards.

I'm torn because part of me feels like cards are "cool" again and the hobby is more mainstream. Larger attendance at shows, more buyers, more interest. This of course, comes at the expense of higher prices, greed, and fraud. If breaking never existed would the hobby truly be healthier? It's an interesting discussion.

I don't think its particularly deep or due to recent leaps in tech outside of the internet in general

Before breaking you could still become "addicted" to the thrill of opening packs/boxes/cases but now that avenue has increased a hundred fold due to the sheer availability of it and alot of folks are hurting and i feel for them

I feel there should be some acknowledgement of this industry wide and on all platforms it pertains to as breaking can become habit forming and lead to significant financial losses for some

Then there is the element that actually effects me or how i approach the hobby personally

In this ecosystem breakers are capturing a large swath of the overall market and in part driving wax way beyond a reasonable value proposition for anyone but a breaker in many cases, not all of course.

I have adjusted by spending so much less on modern wax, i guess i should probably thank breakers for saving me money

In any case, cards will be uncool soon and breakers will flee en masse, then years down the line they will get hot again and the whole cycle will repeat

[fulltritty]

I see what you're saying. If you collect cards of a specific team, buying into team breaks can be a tailored way of opening packs. But the key part is you're a collector who wants the cards for a collection -- not primarily for their value.

This is what I did a few years ago for my Yankees collection. If I can't find a team set for sale of a release, I'd buy into a case break for them. It just got too expensive to keep doing that; especially when Judge too off or prospectors started going all in on Dominguez and Volpe.

[JRX]

Technically there’s zero reason for Fanatics to hold breaks at all, they could just directly snail mail cards in a simple vending box or brick and forego traditional packaging.

For that matter, casinos could cut out all their games and just give money to winners (or not to losers) based on results from a simple random number generator.

Isn't that what slot machines are?

[OhioLawyerF5]

The origins of group breaks go back much farther than people realize. I remember my LCS doing in person group breaks back in the late 90s/early 2000s. This was due to the advent of "premium" products with a premium price tag. The earliest I remember personally participating in was Upper Deck Ultimate Collection in about 2001. It was $100 a pack. That was mind boggling back then and we bought into a random spot for the cards in the packs.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

[glassofwater]

Unregulated gambling, something will happen soon I think

[Archangel1775]

I wonder if the fanatics will give their breakers industrial shredders so they won't even have to bother with shipping most of the cards. Just give credit to the next break if you agree to trash everything you got in the last one.

I'm confident they'll have something like FanaticsePack or ToppsePack similar to Upper DeckePack. A lot of it digital with the hits physical.

I dont think they will do that with flagship though. Maybe the eye towards midrange sets with high-end being all physical.

[Stat Monsters]

I think group breaks where a buyer can get shut out legitimately, there should be a safeguard for the odd "shipping" charge some sellers have, win or lose having a card pulled or not from a break.

I hate sellers who offer lame consultation prizes, one even just sends a piece of paper to their website and offers a code "eBay" for a $5 discount.

These guys charge $5 to ship often shipping nothing or promotional material they could have emailed/messaged, or junk cards not worth $5.

I hope sellers just bake the S&H into their prices and stop charging shipping on eBay.

[thenightman]

It's not gambling addicts that are buying into breaks. It's lonely people who don't know how to manage their money.

:D

[tonedef2oo8]

How will the slob boomo breaks shill his auctions now? Someone have a contact over at eBay to let them know of Boomos shady past? They must not have records of banning his former account for being busting shilling his customers, along with setting us contests for heroes of sport that only people he faked won.

[tonedef2oo8]

I have amazing parents, but they definitely put more trust in me than would be normal at that age lol. It definitely taught me to be independent though. We were a $5/week allowance type of family which I guess $5 in the 90's wasn't horrible but if I wanted something bigger I needed to earn the money for it and that's how I got into cards in the first place. The IP auto craze is where I did my best though. Again, not many 16 year olds are allowed to drive 45 minutes to a minor league stadium for autographs, but they let me. I didn't ask them for money until my mid 20's when real adult stuff started happening that I wasn't prepared for (major surgery and car repairs). So my only regret from being young was not saving more for when I was really gonna need it. But you don't necessarily think about that stuff as a teenager.

I thought the beggars didn’t sell their autos and they are worthless? Weird they all claim this when defending their “hobby”.

[fabiani12333]

I'm confident they'll have something like FanaticsePack or ToppsePack similar to Upper DeckePack. A lot of it digital with the hits physical.

I dont think they will do that with flagship though. Maybe the eye towards midrange sets with high-end being all physical.

That makes sense to me. Have low-end dedicated to retailers and hobby shops, mid-range for online virtual packs, and high-end for online breaks where they can make them a livestreaming event.

[fabiani12333]

I don't think its particularly deep or due to recent leaps in tech outside of the internet in general

Before breaking you could still become "addicted" to the thrill of opening packs/boxes/cases but now that avenue has increased a hundred fold due to the sheer availability of it and alot of folks are hurting and i feel for them

I feel there should be some acknowledgement of this industry wide and on all platforms it pertains to as breaking can become habit forming and lead to significant financial losses for some

Then there is the element that actually effects me or how i approach the hobby personally

In this ecosystem breakers are capturing a large swath of the overall market and in part driving wax way beyond a reasonable value proposition for anyone but a breaker in many cases, not all of course.

I have adjusted by spending so much less on modern wax, i guess i should probably thank breakers for saving me money

In any case, cards will be uncool soon and breakers will flee en masse, then years down the line they will get hot again and the whole cycle will repeat

That's what I've been wondering -- will group breakers be able to cycle in new participants to offset departing ones the further we get away from the hobby boom? I suspect that the hype cycle for group breaking has been fading and it'll become harder and harder to attract big fish to breaks. Maybe there is a consistent group of break participants, but I assume most of them aren't regularly spending big money -- they'd surely go broke if that were the case.

[TMQ]

I may be a breaker but I am extremely small time compared to most, it is not my “job”.

You're still a drug dealer for all intensive purposes. Might as well accept it and embrace it. It's a better look then getting so defensive.

[auctionjmm]

I thought the beggars didn’t sell their autos and they are worthless? Weird they all claim this when defending their “hobby”.

I don't know about today. That market died 20 years ago and I haven't paid attention since but at that time IP autos were selling really well. Players knew what was up though. I remember going to a Clippers game and photographing Alfonso Soriano. He started "posing" for me when he saw the camera and doing all kinds of funny stuff. I got the pictures developed at 1 hour photo and came back for the game. It went like 16 innings or something ridiculous and I waited at the locker room well past 1am. He came out and I asked him to sign a few. He looked at me and said "I know you took more photos than that". I was like yeah I did but it's already morning and I'm sure you need to go. He said "Bring them all out. You've been working all day so I'll get these done for you". I handed him the pack of 24 photos (with doubles) and he signed every single one. Even blew on them to dry them off and then shook my hand and said good luck.

Some players would ask how much I could get for them. Some would ask for my eBay handle. It was a very different world back then. I have no idea how the autograph hounds are treated or perceived today. That ship sailed long ago for me.

[vwnut13]

But if I'm not gambling on a shady seller while gambling am I really gambling?

[fabiani12333]

I don't know about today. That market died 20 years ago and I haven't paid attention since but at that time IP autos were selling really well. Players knew what was up though. I remember going to a Clippers game and photographing Alfonso Soriano. He started "posing" for me when he saw the camera and doing all kinds of funny stuff. I got the pictures developed at 1 hour photo and came back for the game. It went like 16 innings or something ridiculous and I waited at the locker room well past 1am. He came out and I asked him to sign a few. He looked at me and said "I know you took more photos than that". I was like yeah I did but it's already morning and I'm sure you need to go. He said "Bring them all out. You've been working all day so I'll get these done for you". I handed him the pack of 24 photos (with doubles) and he signed every single one. Even blew on them to dry them off and then shook my hand and said good luck.

Some players would ask how much I could get for them. Some would ask for my eBay handle. It was a very different world back then. I have no idea how the autograph hounds are treated or perceived today. That ship sailed long ago for me.

Awesome story -- thanks for sharing it.

[redauto5]

You're still a drug dealer for all intensive purposes. Might as well accept it and embrace it. It's a better look then getting so defensive.Intents and purposes for future reference brother.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[AwesomeBrian]

That's what I've been wondering -- will group breakers be able to cycle in new participants to offset departing ones the further we get away from the hobby boom? I suspect that the hype cycle for group breaking has been fading and it'll become harder and harder to attract big fish to breaks. Maybe there is a consistent group of break participants, but I assume most of them aren't regularly spending big money -- they'd surely go broke if that were the case.

They've been cycling in new customers for 10+ years. Some people leave and come back. Some people act like group breaks started in 2020.

[Archangel1775]

They've been cycling in new customers for 10+ years. Some people leave and come back. Some people act like group breaks started in 2020.

I remember in the late 80's you could buy 100 count lots of players for under $1 each and it got less the more you got. I recently bought a collection that had a 500 count lot of some random 1990 Topps Rookie. Another was a a literal "buyer's group" that advertised to pool their money together and buy a large number of cases to get cheaper boxes.

[fabiani12333]

They've been cycling in new customers for 10+ years. Some people leave and come back. Some people act like group breaks started in 2020.

Breaks ten years ago was a lot smaller part of the hobby. It's fairly widespread and prominent now. It's been on a much bigger scale since the pandemic, with a lot higher total sales and revenue. So to sustain that requires a lot more participants and a lot more sales and higher prices.

[notoriousrmb]

Breaks ten years ago was a lot smaller part of the hobby. It's fairly widespread and prominent now. It's been on a much bigger scale since the pandemic, with a lot higher total sales and revenue. So to sustain that requires a lot more participants and a lot more sales and higher prices.

The breakers pavilion at the National existed years before 2020. Its been a huge part of the industry since the mid-2010's.

People confuse breaking with the ridiculous price hikes of the pandemic era. They aren't the same thing. Most are just looking for a place to point a finger to blame the price increases, and what blew up during the pandemic was the influx of flippers and hoarders, this is why prices jumped.

[fabiani12333]

The breakers pavilion at the National existed years before 2020. Its been a huge part of the industry since the mid-2010's.

People confuse breaking with the ridiculous price hikes of the pandemic era. They aren't the same thing. Most are just looking for a place to point a finger to blame the price increases, and what blew up during the pandemic was the influx of flippers and hoarders, this is why prices jumped.

So why are prices of new unopened product staying elevated even though prices of singles have been steadily dropping for the last 2 years? Are you disputing the claim that the popularity of group breaking exploded during the boom? Obviously the fact that group breakers buy unopened product in bulk and mark them up via group breaks has contributed to prices staying elevated.

Prior to the boom, distributors would regularly hold sales and discount products. But that stopped after the boom, and it has continued even though the rest of the hobby has been contracting.

[fabiani12333]

So I've been thinking a little bit on why eBay did this and I think I have an explanation:

As group break sales have become more prominent on eBay, there has been an increase in fraud associated with it. eBay recognizes this is problematic and unsustainable, so they are implementing a group breaker program to directly manage and oversee group break sales on their platform. They've preselected a small group of breakers for a trial program. If the trial is successful, eBay will expand the program to include more participants.

As we all know, eBay doesn't seem to care much about fraud on their platform that doesn't hurt their bottom line. They don't make much of an effort to crack down on shill bidding, for example. So obviously someone at eBay recognizes that group break sales are a significant potential revenue source for them and they want to make sure it can flourish on their platform. They don't want buyers and sellers getting scammed and hurting the long-term growth of group break sales on their platform.

What do you guys think?

[MattKC]

So I've been thinking a little bit on why eBay did this and I think I have an explanation:

As group break sales have become more prominent on eBay, there has been an increase in fraud associated with it. eBay recognizes this is problematic and unsustainable, so they are implementing a group breaker program to directly manage and oversee group break sales on their platform. They've preselected a small group of breakers for a trial program. If the trial is successful, eBay will expand the program to include more participants.

As we all know, eBay doesn't seem to care much about fraud on their platform that doesn't hurt their bottom line. They don't make much of an effort to crack down on shill bidding, for example. So obviously someone at eBay recognizes that group break sales are a significant potential revenue source for them and they want to make sure it can flourish on their platform. They don't want buyers and sellers getting scammed and hurting the long-term growth of group break sales on their platform.

What do you guys think?

Pretty much what I said on page 2 before the thread went off the rails...but condensed quote from the wall of text in that post:



I think what is happening now is that people have gotten desperate as prices have dropped since the peak and ebay is dealing with a flood of bad breakers and purchasers that are costing them a lot in charge backs and hassle dealing with them. Rather than continue they identified who was breaking, ran an algorithm on the profit/loss for each and identified the safest bets to continue going forward.

...

I just don't see Fanatics fingerprints on this, this was a financial decision by ebay to limit their risk IMO.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Pretty much what I said on page 2 before the thread went off the rails...but condensed quote from the wall of text in that post:

100% nail on the head.

[fabiani12333]

Pretty much what I said on page 2 before the thread went off the rails...but condensed quote from the wall of text in that post:

Yes, but the key difference with my theory is that eBay will eventually expand the number of breakers who will be allowed to sell spots on their platform. If they keep it to only a select few, something else must be going on, because they would be greatly limiting the amount of group break sales on their site.

[notoriousrmb]

So why are prices of new unopened product staying elevated even though prices of singles have been steadily dropping for the last 2 years? Are you disputing the claim that the popularity of group breaking exploded during the boom? Obviously the fact that group breakers buy unopened product in bulk and mark them up via group breaks has contributed to prices staying elevated.

Prior to the boom, distributors would regularly hold sales and discount products. But that stopped after the boom, and it has continued even though the rest of the hobby has been contracting.

Good questions, I'll share my thoughts.

Wax prices are staying high for a few reasons.

#1) Manufacturers are raising their direct prices to get a bigger piece of the pie. Boxes that used to be $100 to shops and distributors are now $250. Used to be that those $100 would be sold for $300 and if the product tanked, you'd see them on sale at the end of the year for $200. Now, with the buy in being much higher, no one wants to lose money putting things on sale. Shops (brick and mortar AND online sellers such as the 'Big 3' and breakers) were used to higher profits and therefore charge more as well. Should be very evident prices are up everywhere for new product, not just from breakers.

#2) Wax hoarding became more popular during the pandemic. As we all know, it was very difficult to obtain product due to supply chain issues, or the hoarders camping out in shops and clearing shelves. All the new blood that jumped into the hobby during the pandemic assumed cards were gold - buy boxes and flip for unsustainable prices. Obviously that has fallen off, but you know how people in this hobby are, can't let things go for a loss.

#3) FOMO. Bowman box prices have jumped a TON. That's not directly from breakers, thats from manufacturers raising the buy-in price. And you try telling people they can't have their Bowman. They will buy at ANY price - many collectors have no self control when they see someone hit an Orange Druw Jones auto, they have to jump in and take a risk as well. Other products are the same, but to a lesser extent. People have to have it regardless of price.

For your next questions - am I disputing that breaking popularity jumped during the pandemic?

Of course not - for many people it was the only way to obtain freshly ripped cards. During the pandemic everything skyrocketed. Breaks were the RESULT of the price jump, not the cause. Were blasters being sold on ebay for $50 due to breaks? Not at all. But why pay $50 for a blaster when you can pay $50 for a team in a hobby case? Breaks made sense with the inflated market and there was meat on the bone for everyone involved at the time.

So the main reason for high prices these days? Inflated costs from the manufacturers and Fanatics limiting who can obtain product. Ask anyone with direct accounts how much product they get now, and at what price. I'm sure they will agree its obscene, and that has nothing to do with breakers, other than the fact that buying a spot from breakers is the only way to limit spending for those who can't afford to drop $400+ on a Super Jumbo Exclusive Hobby box from Fanatics and still want to chase their team in fresh wax.

[fabiani12333]

Good questions, I'll share my thoughts.

Wax prices are staying high for a few reasons.

#1) Manufacturers are raising their direct prices to get a bigger piece of the pie. Boxes that used to be $100 to shops and distributors are now $250. Used to be that those $100 would be sold for $300 and if the product tanked, you'd see them on sale at the end of the year for $200. Now, with the buy in being much higher, no one wants to lose money putting things on sale. Shops (brick and mortar AND online sellers such as the 'Big 3' and breakers) were used to higher profits and therefore charge more as well. Should be very evident prices are up everywhere for new product, not just from breakers.

#2) Wax hoarding became more popular during the pandemic. As we all know, it was very difficult to obtain product due to supply chain issues, or the hoarders camping out in shops and clearing shelves. All the new blood that jumped into the hobby during the pandemic assumed cards were gold - buy boxes and flip for unsustainable prices. Obviously that has fallen off, but you know how people in this hobby are, can't let things go for a loss.

#3) FOMO. Bowman box prices have jumped a TON. That's not directly from breakers, thats from manufacturers raising the buy-in price. And you try telling people they can't have their Bowman. They will buy at ANY price - many collectors have no self control when they see someone hit an Orange Druw Jones auto, they have to jump in and take a risk as well. Other products are the same, but to a lesser extent. People have to have it regardless of price.

For your next questions - am I disputing that breaking popularity jumped during the pandemic?

Of course not - for many people it was the only way to obtain freshly ripped cards. During the pandemic everything skyrocketed. Breaks were the RESULT of the price jump, not the cause. Were blasters being sold on ebay for $50 due to breaks? Not at all. But why pay $50 for a blaster when you can pay $50 for a team in a hobby case? Breaks made sense with the inflated market and there was meat on the bone for everyone involved at the time.

So the main reason for high prices these days? Inflated costs from the manufacturers and Fanatics limiting who can obtain product. Ask anyone with direct accounts how much product they get now, and at what price. I'm sure they will agree its obscene, and that has nothing to do with breakers, other than the fact that buying a spot from breakers is the only way to limit spending for those who can't afford to drop $400+ on a Super Jumbo Exclusive Hobby box from Fanatics and still want to chase their team in fresh wax.

The reason why the manufacturers can charge high prices is because the breakers absorb them. The breakers just pass on the high costs to their costumers. If not for the breakers, who are able to pay the highest prices for new product due to their unique business model, the prices of new product would have to drop. It is the breakers who are supporting the high prices now that singles have dropped.

[AwesomeBrian]

The reason why the manufacturers can charge high prices is because the breakers absorb them. The breakers just pass on the high costs to their costumers. If not for the breakers, who are able to pay the highest prices for new product due to their unique business model, the prices of new product would have to drop. It is the breakers who are supporting the high prices now that singles have dropped.

Play a drinking game with this guys posts. Every time he says 'breakers' take a shot. See you in the ICU

[notoriousrmb]

The reason why the manufacturers can charge high prices is because the breakers absorb them. The breakers just pass on the high costs to their costumers. If not for the breakers, who are able to pay the highest prices for new product due to their unique business model, the prices of new product would have to drop. It is the breakers who are supporting the high prices now that singles have dropped.

If you think breakers are buying all their product from Topps/Fanatics website, you have no idea how the industry works.

These high prices are because Fanatics made a huge purchase at the pandemic pricing peak and figure if sellers could get those prices then, they deserve to have a chunk of those same prices now. They act as if the pandemic pricing is sustainable long term.

Other than the small group of breakers that Fanatics has a partnership with, which again is a VERY small group, no breakers are getting product in quantities or prices like they did before Fanatic's acquisition of Topps. So no, its not breakers causing the high pricing. It's Fanatics trying to recoup their investment and limiting access to product to keep demand up.

If they dumped all their product to shops, online sellers and distributors as Topps did before on release day - you would see prices dropping as supply would outweigh demand. But that no longer happens.

[fabiani12333]

If you think breakers are buying all their product from Topps/Fanatics website, you have no idea how the industry works.

These high prices are because Fanatics made a huge purchase at the pandemic pricing peak and figure if sellers could get those prices then, they deserve to have a chunk of those same prices now. They act as if the pandemic pricing is sustainable long term.

Other than the small group of breakers that Fanatics has a partnership with, which again is a VERY small group, no breakers are getting product in quantities or prices like they did before Fanatic's acquisition of Topps. So no, its not breakers causing the high pricing. It's Fanatics trying to recoup their investment and limiting access to product to keep demand up.

If they dumped all their product to shops, online sellers and distributors as Topps did before on release day - you would see prices dropping as supply would outweigh demand. But that no longer happens.

I did a search for "2023 Topps Sterling break" on YouTube and saw an endless number of break videos. Group breakers are obviously acquiring large quantities of this product from Topps or distributors. If they weren't, I'm absolutely certain you wouldn't have the high prices that we consistently see advertised. Group breaking is a game-changer because it allows sellers to divvy up unopened product at higher prices than their retail cost.

Yes, instead of selling products to hobby shops at wholesale prices, so the shops can turnaround and sell them on Dealernet for an easy profit, they are making them pay retail prices like everyone else.

Fanatics is taking away the easy profits from flippers. If they didn't optimize pricing, the excess value would be exploited by sellers down the supply chain. At the end of the day, end consumers dictate pricing, so I'm not blaming Fanatics or any business from charging what they do.

[notoriousrmb]

I did a search for "2023 Topps Sterling break" on YouTube and saw an endless number of break videos. Group breakers are obviously acquiring large quantities of this product from Topps or distributors. If they weren't, I'm absolutely certain you wouldn't have the high prices that we consistently see advertised. Group breaking is a game-changer because it allows sellers to divvy up unopened product at higher prices than their retail cost.

Yes, instead of selling products to hobby shops at wholesale prices, so the shops can turnaround and sell them on Dealernet for an easy profit, they are making them pay retail prices like everyone else.

Fanatics is taking away the easy profits from flippers. If they didn't optimize pricing, the excess value would be exploited by sellers down the supply chain. At the end of the day, end consumers dictate pricing, so I'm not blaming Fanatics or any business from charging what they do.

As opposed to searching for the quantity of 2023 Topps Sterling breaks, try looking at how many different breakers are breaking more than say, 3 cases of that product. 1 breaker doing a bunch of one or two box breaks is not indicative of "large amounts" of product being allocated.

If you can show me 20+ breakers doing a large number of cases, I'll see your point. Not just Layton who is partnered with Fanatics.

[fabiani12333]

As opposed to searching for the quantity of 2023 Topps Sterling breaks, try looking at how many different breakers are breaking more than say, 3 cases of that product. 1 breaker doing a bunch of one or two box breaks is not indicative of "large amounts" of product being allocated.

If you can show me 20+ breakers doing a large number of cases, I'll see your point. Not just Layton who is partnered with Fanatics.

Yeah, Layton has obviously been the largest breaker of that release on YouTube. I can't prove anything because I don't have the numbers. One thing that is obvious to me is the high prices coincided with the sharp rise in popularity of breaking. You can't tell me if you take away breaking that prices wouldn't be forced downward. That is a big market for new product -- not every box can be held as an investment or ripped by individuals. The singles market would ultimately decide the value of boxes without the gambling element that breakers provide.

The exclusive partnership that you referenced between Fanatics and certain breakers has me wondering if eBay isn't trying to do the same thing. I know it's been speculated that Whatnot has a partenership with Backyard Breaks to break exclusively on their platform. The difference with Fanatics obviously is they guarantee new product to their breaker partners -- eBay can't. eBay is a resale marketplace for trading cards -- not a primary one.

[notoriousrmb]

Yeah, Layton has obviously been the largest breaker of that release on YouTube. I can't prove anything because I don't have the numbers. One thing that is obvious to me is the high prices coincided with the sharp rise in popularity of breaking. You can't tell me if you take away breaking that prices wouldn't be forced downward. That is a big market for new product -- not every box can be held as an investment or ripped by individuals. The singles market would ultimately decide the value of boxes without the gambling element that breakers provide.

The exclusive partnership that you referenced between Fanatics and certain breakers has me wondering if eBay isn't trying to do the same thing. I know it's been speculated that Whatnot has a partenership with Backyard Breaks to break exclusively on their platform. The difference with Fanatics obviously is they guarantee new product to their breaker partners -- eBay can't. eBay is a resale marketplace for trading cards -- not a primary one.

Oh I've never said breaking doesn't contribute to the higher prices, it is absolutely a factor and I won't dispute that. What really grinds my gears is when people point to breaking as the exclusive/primary reason for price increases. That's just the same old lazy argument the same few people want to repeat because they can't see the bigger picture and for whatever reason wake up angry at breaking every morning.

The key reason for the overall increase in box prices is the manufacturers seeing pandemic sales and wanting a bigger piece of the pie, as well as Fanatic's investments into the industry. Box prices are WAY higher before breakers, shops and online sellers ever get a sniff of product - so these outlets have to increase their sales price as well to remain profitable. With singles prices not keeping pace - something will have to give eventually.

It would not surprise me if eBay is looking for exclusive partnerships, but with no real info out there its tough to say. I do find it odd that some here still think Fanatics has a hand in eBay. As you said, eBay is a resale platform so why on earth would Fanatics support what may be their competition in the future? I think you are right that eBay might be looking to be direct competition to Fanatics down the road but obviously its all just speculation now.

[fabiani12333]

Oh I've never said breaking doesn't contribute to the higher prices, it is absolutely a factor and I won't dispute that. What really grinds my gears is when people point to breaking as the exclusive/primary reason for price increases. That's just the same old lazy argument the same few people want to repeat because they can't see the bigger picture and for whatever reason wake up angry at breaking every morning.

The key reason for the overall increase in box prices is the manufacturers seeing pandemic sales and wanting a bigger piece of the pie, as well as Fanatic's investments into the industry. Box prices are WAY higher before breakers, shops and online sellers ever get a sniff of product - so these outlets have to increase their sales price as well to remain profitable. With singles prices not keeping pace - something will have to give eventually.

It would not surprise me if eBay is looking for exclusive partnerships, but with no real info out there its tough to say. I do find it odd that some here still think Fanatics has a hand in eBay. As you said, eBay is a resale platform so why on earth would Fanatics support what may be their competition in the future? I think you are right that eBay might be looking to be direct competition to Fanatics down the road but obviously its all just speculation now.

The way I look at is Fanatics raised prices of products to cut into the high profits of businesses and entities further down the supply chain. Prices would still be high regardless, but Fanatics is now taking more profits for itself. Otherwise, other businesses and entities would be making those extra profits instead.

Prices of products are ultimately decided by the consumers -- not the manufacturer. If consumers are unable or unwilling to pay the prices, products won't sell.

The reason why Fanatics might partner with eBay is because eBay is the biggest marketplace for collectibles in the world. They have the brand awareness and massive costumer base. The one advantage Fanatics has over eBay is their control of new products, which they can leverage to guide consumers to their platform. That still leaves all the other cards for eBay to dominate.

PWCC got booted from eBay and it ultimately led to their downfall. They no longer had the steady and reliable income from sales that eBay provided. They needed to entice consumers to their platform by offering easy financing, which led them to becoming over leveraged -- they gave a snot nosed 15 year old an $80k loan?!

But no, I don't think Fanatics will partner with eBay because Michael Rubin seems only interested in acquiring companies and assets to bolster Fanatics' valuation -- not creating partnerships with companies.

[KhalDrogo]

PWCC got booted from eBay and it ultimately led to their downfall. They no longer had the steady and reliable income from sales that eBay provided.
This couldn’t be more false, but I would love to see the data to prove it.

[IronCladLou]

Yes, but the key difference with my theory is that eBay will eventually expand the number of breakers who will be allowed to sell spots on their platform. If they keep it to only a select few, something else must be going on, because they would be greatly limiting the amount of group break sales on their site.

I think ebay partner with fanatics and fanatics say who can break on there. Fanatics approved

[fabiani12333]

This couldn’t be more false, but I would love to see the data to prove it.

The rest of the quote explains why -- they had to provide easy financing to entice buyers and sellers to use their platform so it could grow. If they hadn't been so aggressive in trying to grow their platform, or if they still had consignment sales from eBay, they wouldn't have overleveraged and had a liquidity crisis. They would have had more diversity in revenue sources.

[fabiani12333]

I think ebay partner with fanatics and fanatics say who can break on there. Fanatics approved

Yup -- that's what I thought originally. But some commentators are telling me no because Fanatics wants to own everything.

[IronCladLou]

Yup -- that's what I thought originally. But some commentators are telling me no because Fanatics wants to own everything.

True. Ebay is a small break market, but it's a start.

[KhalDrogo]

The rest of the quote explains why -- they had to provide easy financing to entice buyers and sellers to use their platform so it could grow. If they hadn't been so aggressive in trying to grow their platform, or if they still had consignment sales from eBay, they wouldn't have overleveraged and had a liquidity crisis. They would have had more diversity in revenue sources.
The loans predated the move from eBay. They didn’t offer loans because they moved away from eBay.

[rms13]

Ebay just announced they are no longer allowing breaks of retail products. No longer allowed to list or sell any breaks that include retail skus. Most people probably don't care but I like being able to get into some cheaper breaks for fun and especially when there are retail products that have big hits like Kaboom and Downtowns for Panini and with Topps you can still get autos and other good cards out of retail

[fabiani12333]

Ebay just announced they are no longer allowing breaks of retail products. No longer allowed to list or sell any breaks that include retail skus. Most people probably don't care but I like being able to get into some cheaper breaks for fun and especially when there are retail products that have big hits like Kaboom and Downtowns for Panini and with Topps you can still get autos and other good cards out of retail

This hurts small breakers who don't get direct allocation or distribution.

Retail products should probably only be opened by end users, though.

[rms13]

This hurts small breakers who don't get direct allocation or distribution.

Retail products should probably only be opened by end users, though.

Yes I agree with both sides. There are good breakers that rely on retail who will be put out of business. On the other hand I love someplace where the shelves are every store that sells retail are always empty and these breakers are a big part of the reason.