2023-24 Season - Discussion Thread

[YayNJ]

It's that time again (already)!

First qualifying round of this seasons Champions League is this evening! :D

[bjho852]

Some of these UCL qualifying matches are already underway.
Any past champion starting from this round? Curious.

[YayNJ]

Any past champion starting from this round? Curious.

No, not this low down - this is for the real minnows, teams from Gibraltar etc.

However - the Romanian side Steaua Bucharest, who won the old European Cup before it changed to the Champions League, in 1985-86 have started from the second qualifying round before.

[cardbuster]

The Romanian champions are starting from scratch this season, from the low-tier playoffs, in order to get to the group stage. Fun-fact, Gheorghe Hagi is the manager & coach, but nevertheless, they will most likely not make it, as we haven't had a team in the groups for a while now.

If there's anything you'd like to know about Romanian or European football for that matter, ask away. I'm located here and I'm up-to-date with all the news and the things the media might not tell you.

[CiaranGQ]

Dinamo Tbilisi are also in the first preliminary round this week. Although never European Cup / Champions League winners, they won the European Cup Winners’ Cup in 1981 and had some great scalps in European competition around that time (including a 3-0 victory over a great Liverpool side).

Unfortunately, post the collapse of the USSR, Georgian football has really struggled and, whereas Dinamo would have previously got crowds of 70,000 plus for their home European matches, it’s now a fraction of that (I was there in 1997 for their Champions League preliminary round match versus Crusaders of Northern Ireland and, even by then, their crowds had decreased materially).


Another team in this round is Ferencvaros of Hungary who’ve had quite a lot of European success over the years, albeit again a long time ago and far from being a European power house these days.


I appreciate these preliminary rounds don’t generate much interest but I find them fascinating. As a follower of Northern Irish club football, these games are important - both in terms of profile but also revenue as winning through a few rounds generate very significant funds for small clubs. That Northern Irish club view is shared across many of the other small European nations.

Overall it’s unfortunate as smaller clubs are rarely going to draw the big clubs in the random way they could until the early 1990s and the cash is something of a pay-off by UEFA. However, still interesting and there’s always hope of a giant killing.

[tupacgr13]

That Balkani vs Ludogorets was a big upset to be honest. We have to wait for the second leg as well but for me being based in Greece I absolutely love the games between balkan teams. The rivalries are crazy

[YayNJ]

It's a shame that the Champions League is no longer for Champions. You can argue that it's more exciting and whatever, but true beauty for me, is long road trips to the back end of nowhere playing teams you have never heard of and having adventures. Giant killings.

Alas, we can never go back to that - the gulf in quality is now so absurdly large it would be a massacre. All for money.

[tupacgr13]

It's a shame that the Champions League is no longer for Champions. You can argue that it's more exciting and whatever, but true beauty for me, is long road trips to the back end of nowhere playing teams you have never heard of and having adventures. Giant killings.

Alas, we can never go back to that - the gulf in quality is now so absurdly large it would be a massacre. All for money.

I think its from the reasons I find Conference league fascinating. Some big names but not in their best form usually, some teams with glimpses of success in the past and always space for small teams to have their run. The first year I really enjoyed seeing my hometown team Paok Thessaloniki playing in Conference league quarter finals against Marseille despite all the incidents that did happen in France.

[mfw13]

It's a shame that the Champions League is no longer for Champions. You can argue that it's more exciting and whatever, but true beauty for me, is long road trips to the back end of nowhere playing teams you have never heard of and having adventures. Giant killings.

Alas, we can never go back to that - the gulf in quality is now so absurdly large it would be a massacre. All for money.

I would like to see the Champion's League move to being Champions and Cup-Winners only, with 2nd/3rd/4th place teams in the Europa League.

That would boost the importance of domestic cups, and put the Europa League on more equal footing with the Champion's League in terms of team quality and therefore financial attractiveness.

[chiefs]

Some of these UCL qualifying matches are already underway.
Any past champion starting from this round? Curious.

The last team to go deep from this round that comes too mind was 18-19 Ajax (https://fbref.com/en/squads/19c3f8c4/2018-2019/c8/Ajax-Stats-Champions-League)which lost to Tottenham in the semifinals. Ajax up 2-0 at half gave up a second half hat trick to Lucas Moura and lost on aggregate 3-3. Pretty stacked Ajax team with Frankie De Jong, Mathias De Ligt, Donny Van Der Beek, Hakim Zivech, Dusan Tadic, Andre Onana in goal.

[chiefs]

I think its from the reasons I find Conference league fascinating. Some big names but not in their best form usually, some teams with glimpses of success in the past and always space for small teams to have their run. The first year I really enjoyed seeing my hometown team Paok Thessaloniki playing in Conference league quarter finals against Marseille despite all the incidents that did happen in France.

Have you been to many matches at PAOK and is the atmosphere as good as everyone says?

[tupacgr13]

Have you been to many matches at PAOK and is the atmosphere as good as everyone says?

I am not a PAOK fan but I have been a season ticket holder the last 15 years. My opinion is there are some games that it can be one of the best atmospheres in the soccer world. Last match I remember was against Marseille before 2 years in the conference league quarter final which you could see the fans go mental. Last year the best experience was probably AEK Athens with their new stadium but was extremely hard if not impossible to get tickets to their venue. This year they will be playing in Champions League preliminaries so expect good atmospheres as well. If anyone needs some information about the greek teams I will be more than happy to help and especially in case you visit Thessaloniki for PAOK or Aris I am a season ticket holder in both teams so I can always arrange something. Sorry for the big message and the irrelevant infos but it is a rare occasion someone asks something for greek football :D

[mikee1186]

Henderson looks to be set for Saudi now as well if the clubs agree a fee. As a Liverpool fan I say fair play to him, quadrupling his wages at that age and he will play under Stevie G with a lot of minutes.

He knows he would be a bit part player now at LFC. Good for him to move on and find an important role that may well keep him in the England setup longer too.

[kellmuff]

lol he isnt going to be in the England team playing in Saudi Arabia

[YayNJ]

Yeah, no chance he keeps a place with England.

It's stacked there now, Rice, Phillips, Gallagher, Bellingham, Prowse... and there's also Eze and Maddison that can play there.

Tack on Ramsay & Skipp from the U21's and Willock at Newcastle...

[mikee1186]

We’ll see. I doubt we’ve seen the last of hendo in the England kit, even if it’s a bit longer.

[YayNJ]

Realistically, he will get phased out the squad to be never seen again.

[jmcca170]

The last team to go deep from this round that comes too mind was 18-19 Ajax (https://fbref.com/en/squads/19c3f8c4/2018-2019/c8/Ajax-Stats-Champions-League)which lost to Tottenham in the semifinals. Ajax up 2-0 at half gave up a second half hat trick to Lucas Moura and lost on aggregate 3-3. Pretty stacked Ajax team with Frankie De Jong, Mathias De Ligt, Donny Van Der Beek, Hakim Zivech, Dusan Tadic, Andre Onana in goal.


One of the most fun teams I’ve ever seen. Absolutely hated they didn’t get to the final


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CiaranGQ]

I am not a PAOK fan but I have been a season ticket holder the last 15 years.

I have always had a soft spot for Panathinaikos as one of my first ever games was Linfield (Northern Ireland) vs Panathinaikos in the second round of the 1984/85 European Cup. Linfield ran them close but lost 5-4 on aggregate and, ultimately, Panathinaikos would lose in the semi-final to Liverpool.

I have never seen a Panathinaikos home match but attended their Leoforos (?) stadium for the Northern Ireland away match to Greece in 2003 (which Greece won to qualify for the 2004 Euros and rest is history …). It’s one of the best stadia I’ve ever attended. A proper stadium right in the city, with steep terracing that’s close to the pitch. Enables a brilliant atmosphere which there was that night.




The first leg preliminary round results were fairly good for the Northern Irish sides. Larne lost 1-0 away to Helsinki in the Champions League which was above expectations. Linfield beat Albanian opposition in their home leg while Crusaders and Glentoran both had away draws to Finnish and Maltese opposition respectively.

All 4 teams have at least a reasonable chance of progressing to the second preliminary round which is great to see.

[tupacgr13]

Panathinaikos seems to be stuck to mediocrity these days. They had a good spell last year when they were on the top of the table until last matchday. I do not like them personally but they are a massive club(fanwise) even for european standards. They are trying to get a new stadium nowadays because Leoforos is very small for their needs.

Northern Ireland had a good spell last years but now they seem to settle back in the days where the national team didn't have a lot of success. Hope you enjoyed Euro 2016. Will Griggs on fire was a big hit that days.

Domzale losing 1-4 to Balzan was the biggest upset of the night I think. Most of the others matches are relatively open still.

[CiaranGQ]

Northern Ireland had a good spell last years but now they seem to settle back in the days where the national team didn't have a lot of success. Hope you enjoyed Euro 2016. Will Griggs on fire was a big hit that days.

Yes, Euro 2016 was good. I was in France for approx two weeks for the Northern Ireland games with at least half the time spent in Lyon. My last Northern Ireland game was away to Switzerland @ Basle in late 2017; a World Cup 2018 play-off in which we came close but narrowly missed out.



It’s great to have some European focused, vintage & modern, football / soccer / calcio / futbol dialogue on the forum.


I’m an Internazionale (“Inter”) season ticket holder and, after the additional cost of the unexpected Champions League run late last season, it was horrible to be met with an almost 30% increase in season ticket prices … despite Inter’s additional income from their Champions League run.

As bad as that is, it could be worse. I understand Fiorentina season ticket prices increased by 40% plus. Added to the increasing costs of flights and hotels, I will need to pick & choose my games more this season.

The focus for Inter this season is very definitely on winning the Scudetto which would be #20. With the squad now weakened since last season, I’m not overly optimistic but hope I’m proved wrong. The one thing that leaves me hope is I am not seeing an Italian side that is considerably stronger.

[YayNJ]

Yes, this has been most refreshing today.

Proper football talk ;)

[kellmuff]

already seen Arsenal fans complaining about Havertz' first performance lol.

I still think there's a very great player there, but I think the puzzle is figuring out what his best position is.

[Gin&Juice]

If you guys keep talking about games b/n Northern Ireland and Greek teams that occurred 40 years ago, I am going to have to start talking about MLS Next games. :)

In all seriousness, though, very cool to see the diversity of backgrounds in this forum.

[YayNJ]

already seen Arsenal fans complaining about Havertz' first performance lol.



https://i.imgur.com/Y6UKciJ.png

[CiaranGQ]

If you guys keep talking about games b/n Northern Ireland and Greek teams that occurred 40 years ago, I am going to have to start talking about MLS Next games. :)

In all seriousness, though, very cool to see the diversity of backgrounds in this forum.


I think what you will also find alongside diversity of backgrounds is diversity of collecting interests.

For example, 1970s through 2000s, programmes (programs) were a significant collectible in UK football culture whereas in US during most of that period, sports programs were an afterthought (with exception of the beautiful World Series issues of 1910s though to 1930s).


Also, and maybe it is different with younger generations (I’m late 40s), the collector market across Europe feels much more team centric rather than, in the US, player centric.


Anyway, enough of that and onto the 2023/2024 season. Just as we start it, a moment to reflect upon Luis Suarez who died on 09 July 2023. A legend for Internazionale and part of the “Grande Inter” side of the 1960s, he remains the only Spanish-born player to win the Ballon d’Or.

[chiefs]

I am not a PAOK fan but I have been a season ticket holder the last 15 years....but it is a rare occasion someone asks something for greek football :D

I was following them a little bit but they came on my radar after the little incident when the owner came on to the pitch with a gun (https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2018/mar/12/paok-salonkia-owner-ivan-savvidis-invades-pitch-with-a-gun-video) :eek: Where you at that match?

They had a good team that season with Prijović

[tupacgr13]

Havertz is a really special type of player but I am not convinced he is going to be really good in PL. I am not quite sure what this player needs. Maybe tactics, change of position , some muscles? Its from the players I have seen in so many games that still buffles me.

As for Inter Milan I see no italian team getting better this offseason so far so #20 might come at the end of the season. Myself I think Napoli is slightly better despite Min-Jae Kim leaving for Bayern but have to see whose coming there.

You 're so lucky to have a season ticket there. Milan is not my favourite city(please don't bash me about this) but if I have to choose a football stadium for the last game of my life it would be San Siro/Giusepe Meazza. I totally love it, its so iconic.

[tupacgr13]

I was following them a little bit but they came on my radar after the little incident when the owner came on to the pitch with a gun (https://www.theguardian.com/football/video/2018/mar/12/paok-salonkia-owner-ivan-savvidis-invades-pitch-with-a-gun-video) :eek: Where you at that match?

They had a good team that season with Prijović

The kick-off was at 19.00 I think. We had to enter from like 16.30 because the stadium was sooooo packed. It was a championship deciding game. PAOK needed the 3 points to win the championship after 33 years. AEK needed a tie or better to win it after 24 years. Game goes 0-0 until then 90th minute. PAOK scores this goal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLY5UsXnxhY

The ref counts the goal but then changes his decision and cancels it and the rest is history. I left the stadium around 01.00 and was home at 02.30 in the morning. Well you could see the president invading the pitch with a gun, fireworks around, people shouting, it was a day of pure balkan culture. We had an awesome time and people still disagree about the whistle in that game. I will let you decide through the video.

[bjho852]

Inter pulls out of the race for signing Lukaku permanently from Chelsea - a complete PR disaster on Lukaku's side for negotiating with...Juventus.

[CiaranGQ]

Inter pulls out of the race for signing Lukaku permanently from Chelsea - a complete PR disaster on Lukaku's side for negotiating with...Juventus.

He is nothing more than an animal.

[Ianhatcher]

This isn't going to end well.....

:popcorn:

[CiaranGQ]

This isn't going to end well.....

:popcorn:

Why not?

[kellmuff]

I'd love nothing more than for Chelsea to let Lukaku rot in the reserves for how he's handled himself

[CiaranGQ]

I'd love nothing more than for Chelsea to let Lukaku rot in the reserves for how he's handled himself

Certainly what he deserves and, of course, it’s far from the first time. I’m actually annoyed by Inter being fooled by him a second time here.

What’s made matters worse at Inter is that they’ve just gone and signed Juan Cuadrado from Juventus. No love lost there and a player well past his best.

Add to departure of Onana to Manchester United and the loss of Skriniar (admittedly, known for quite some months) and it feels like a holding position of the owners who have an intention of securing future Champions League qualification only with intention of preserving the perceived value of the club, which they appear to want to sell in whole or part.

[kellmuff]

Fofana has done his ACL and likely done for the season. Great start for Chelsea!

[LittleJimmies]

Fofana has done his ACL and likely done for the season. Great start for Chelsea!

Man, that sucks. Second major injury in 3 years for such a good young player.

[tupacgr13]

What a shock for Ferencvaros last night. Nobody expected that I think. Domzale's out of conference was a big one for that level of soccer also.

[kellmuff]

I know it was just a pre season friendly against Wrexham but that Cesare Casadei looks like a real talented player. Ripped it up at the U20 world cup and was top scorer/Golden Ball winner. Chelsea might have a gem here.

[CiaranGQ]

What a shock for Ferencvaros last night. Nobody expected that I think.

Although it won’t grab the headlines, it could well be the biggest shock in the Champions League this season. Not just for Klaksvikar Itrottarfe, their Faroese opponents to beat them away from home but to do it 3-0.

Given the way that the preliminary rounds work out, and that Klaksvikar Itrottarfe are in the Champions League path, they must now have at least a fighting chance of making it through to the Conference League Group stages. That would be great to see.

[tupacgr13]

Although it won’t grab the headlines, it could well be the biggest shock in the Champions League this season. Not just for Klaksvikar Itrottarfe, their Faroese opponents to beat them away from home but to do it 3-0.

Given the way that the preliminary rounds work out, and that Klaksvikar Itrottarfe are in the Champions League path, they must now have at least a fighting chance of making it through to the Conference League Group stages. That would be great to see.

Well they got 3 chances now hope they make it :D. Another big one last night was Shkendija getting eliminated from Haverfordwest. I am pretty sure some pubs in Wales run out of beers last night.

For the ones that don't actually care about these rounds, well its over guys now every qualifying round will get more famous teams and better matchups starting from next week.

Both Greek teams from my hometown Paok and Aris are entering conference league battle against Beitar Jerusalem(which should be an ok matchup) and against Ararat (who had the most amazing battle against Egnatia last night. 2-2 final score, 4-4 in the extra time and won on penalty shotout). Panathinaikos facing Dnipro for CL qualifiers. Season is starting and the hype is already getting in my veins.

[CiaranGQ]

Panathinaikos facing Dnipro for CL qualifiers. Season is starting and the hype is already getting in my veins.

Again a blast from the past but, as a teenager, I saw Dnipro play Linfield in the first round of the European Cup 1989/90. Game was played in Wrexham, Wales as Linfield were ordered by UEFA to play a number of European games a large distance from Belfast due to crowd trouble at an earlier European match.

At the time Dnipro were USSR champions. How times have changed.


Across the first preliminary round matches, 2 of the 4 Northern Irish teams progressed which is reasonable. One of our teams to make an exit was Glentoran who lost 14-13 in an incredible penalty shoot-out after scoring an equaliser 11 minutes into injury time.


Games I’m keeping an eye on next week are a number of Conference League second preliminary round ties. Zalgiris vs Galatasaray … would love Zalgiris to win and I genuinely think they have a chance over the two legs. The other match is Dinamo Tbilisi away to Hamrun Spartans of Malta. Still obstacles to cross but would love to see Dinamo into the Group stages.

[tupacgr13]

Galatasaray bought so many players. I don't know, I hope AEK Athens avoids them on Monday's draw.


Glentoran had a funny incident at the penalty shotout where the keeper of Gzira saves the penalty, immediately starts celebrating and then the ball spins and goes to the back of the net. Quite hilarious.


Payet is leaving OM. Can't describe how much I used to love watching this player. Anyways the media today are full of that Messi goal in the last minute. Homeboys are everywhere today.

[CiaranGQ]

Glentoran had a funny incident at the penalty shotout where the keeper of Gzira saves the penalty, immediately starts celebrating and then the ball spins and goes to the back of the net. Quite hilarious.



Yes, the incident went viral !

Glentoran has quite a high profile for a number of reasons. One reason is the number of iconic players who started their careers at the club. The most iconic is probably Danny Blanchflower who lead Tottenham to the double in 1961.

Also, their stadium which remains very "old skool' ... has not substantively changed for decades. It is a magnet for groundhoppers across Europe ... much of it remains largely as it was when crowds of uo to 40,000 saw European Cup matches vs Benfica in 1967 and Juventus a decade later.

[tupacgr13]

Yes, the incident went viral !

Glentoran has quite a high profile for a number of reasons. One reason is the number of iconic players who started their careers at the club. The most iconic is probably Danny Blanchflower who lead Tottenham to the double in 1961.

Also, their stadium which remains very "old skool' ... has not substantively changed for decades. It is a magnet for groundhoppers across Europe ... much of it remains largely as it was when crowds of uo to 40,000 saw European Cup matches vs Benfica in 1967 and Juventus a decade later.

I have never been to Ireland or Northern Ireland but I would love too. We once faced Bohemians football club recently but wasn't on the trip. Anyways looking forward to some action in the upcoming week!

[YayNJ]

This is so embarrassing.

Messi was substituted in the 78th minute to a standing ovation, with a number of fans leaving the 20,000-seat DRV PNK Stadium shortly afterwards.

....and justifying it is even worse. Lot of work to be done still in the US.

"I really didn't notice. However, with the type of player he is, it's justified that this happens," said Inter Miami head Gerardo Martino.

"I would have preferred that the public stayed and pay tribute to the entire team, but I can also understand it."

[tupacgr13]

Not many surprises last night. Only Helskinki winning Molde was a big one but still Molde can fix this in the second leg. Panathinaikos won Dnipro relatively easy. I think the war is leaving his marks in the ukrainian sqauds. Also a remarkable hattrick from Ivanusec. Solid player and might move to Feyenoord before the end of the summer.

[CiaranGQ]

Not many surprises last night. Only Helskinki winning Molde was a big one but still Molde can fix this in the second leg. Panathinaikos won Dnipro relatively easy. I think the war is leaving his marks in the ukrainian sqauds. Also a remarkable hattrick from Ivanusec. Solid player and might move to Feyenoord before the end of the summer.

Yes and, in reality, Molde will probably still qualify over the two legs.

Zalgiris drew 2-2 with Galatasaray. I’m praying for a great away win in second leg !

I’m flying back to Belfast today so will attend Crusaders vs Rosenberg tomorrow evening.

[tupacgr13]

Yes and, in reality, Molde will probably still qualify over the two legs.

Zalgiris drew 2-2 with Galatasaray. I’m praying for a great away win in second leg !

I’m flying back to Belfast today so will attend Crusaders vs Rosenberg tomorrow evening.

Would love to see that but Galatasaray didn't play full squad. I think Zalgiris will get hammered in the second leg. Klaskvik got away with a tie so you never know. They will play for 2 results now. Will track Crusaders and hope you win. I am attending Paok - Bejtar Jerusalem today.

[fadster]

You are Youri Tielemans coming on for your first pre-season appearance for new club Aston Villa...
https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/1684290846865104896

[YayNJ]

Oh my, Hibernian

[tupacgr13]

Yeh Hibernian unexpected loss. But I think Basel did even worse. Greek teams sucked both. Especially Aris was disgusting. Paok against Bejtar had some action in the stands with Israelis throwing some flares towards Paok fans. Both matches will be defined at second leg. Really hope at least one hometown team will advance at the next round.

[YayNJ]

Juventus are kicked out of Europa Conference League by Uefa for breaching FFP rules.

[mikee1186]

Now do City.

[tcdyess]

Dembélé set to seal PSG transfer from Barcelona - sourcesl per ESPN.. this is huge....

[YayNJ]

Now do City.

Why stop there. Lets get Chelsea and Barcelona done for good too.

[tupacgr13]

David Silva retired. Really nice player he will be missed.

[YayNJ]

Chelsea fined £8.6m for FFP breach

Nice, but not enough.

[tupacgr13]

Klaksvik managed to qualify. Must be the first Faroese team to enter group stages.

[CiaranGQ]

Klaksvik managed to qualify. Must be the first Faroese team to enter group stages.

Yes, first to do so.

In the Champions League, I was glad to see Servette win through against Genk (Servette play Rangers in the next round and I think they will cause difficulties for Rangers). Zalgiris put up a good performance away to Galatasaray, losing 1-0. Although Galatasaray were clearly the better side, Zalgiris had chances.


So far it’s been a poor European campaign for teams across both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. Only one side across the island of Ireland has a realistic chance of progressing through to the next round - that’s Derry City who take a 2-1 first leg home win going into the match versus KuPS of Finland this evening.

[tupacgr13]

All greek teams to the next round so it is going to be a nice week. Derry city made it also so I am happy for you CiaranGQ. And since Basel is out who knows maybe you will have a shot to enter group stages.

[YayNJ]

English Championship and the FA Cup tonight.

We're back!

[mikee1186]

I’m ready! May tune in for Owls vs Saints. Then community shield Sunday should be interesting.

Just before the season starts is when my expectations are the highest. :flex::D we all get the unreasonable optimism bug and I don’t even care :)! It’s not whether my team will win a trophy but how many. :p should be a great season all around!

[CiaranGQ]

All greek teams to the next round so it is going to be a nice week. Derry city made it also so I am happy for you CiaranGQ. And since Basel is out who knows maybe you will have a shot to enter group stages.

Very sad re the AEK vs Dinamo situation.


Derry City is interesting. Derry, or sometimes referred to as Londonderry, is Northern Ireland’s second largest city. However, Derry City play in the League of Ireland (i.e. the Republic of Ireland League) rather than in the Irish League (the Northern Ireland league). They did play in the Northern Irish system through to the early 1970s, then were absent from competitive football for over a decade before entering the Republic of Ireland system in 1985.

Their home leg in the next round cannot be played at their home ground of Brandywell due to higher UEFA requirements from this next round onwards. Originally, they had nominated the Aviva Stadium in Dublin (where Republic of Ireland international matches are played). This is the opposite side of the island of Ireland to Derry … so have now sought UEFA permission to play the match at Windsor Park (“National Stadium”) in Belfast.

[Jadaki]

Chelsea fined £8.6m for FFP breach

Nice, but not enough.

What a wrist slap, and City still out here just violating the rules like a horny teenager on a first date.

[YayNJ]

What a wrist slap, and City still out here just violating the rules like a horny teenager on a first date.

Manchester City were fined £25m, reduced to £10m on appeal in 2020.

Manchester United also got a £260,000 fine this year.

[tupacgr13]

Very sad re the AEK vs Dinamo situation.

Situation with hooliganism is escalating really fast. So many games this month had huge issues. Tonight is going to be a rough night in Athens since they expect Aek-Marseille-Livorno to retaliate against Panathinaikos. The situation seems out of control to be honest. Aek, Panathinaikos and Paok got a movement ban this round against Dinamo Zagreb, MArseille and Hajduk Split. Olympiakos vs Genk and Aris vs Dinamo Kyiv are the only games away fan movement was allowed. I mean it has been two weeks now I had a really nice time visiting paok and aris stadiums and yesterday after the incident everything was gone. I felt so empty :(.

Anyways apart from this I will follow your Derry city on Thursday hope you get a good result. By the way Klaskvik won again somehow! Sky is the limit for them ?

[kingb22]

Juventus are kicked out of Europa Conference League by Uefa for breaching FFP rules.

The irony is one of the rules breaches on inflated transfers had Barca on teh other end ... Arthur to Juventus and Miralem Pjanic to Barca. I'm pretty sure that if Juve had been in the UCL there wouldn't have been a ban, but Europa Conference was an OK compromise

[Eckstein197]

What’s everyone’s relegation pick for EPL?

I really hope Luton stays up I just don’t see how they do. They would need massive collapses by numerous teams

As a wolves fan I’m very worried, think we are in for a very rocky season

I know Everyone is saying Everton should be safe I just can’t shake the feeling the luck will run out soon

Here’s my official EPL table prediction

Man City wins by 10+ points
Arsenal
Newcastle
Liverpool
Man U
Brighton
Chelsea
Aston Villa
Tottenham
Brentford
West Ham
Nottingham Forest
Burnley
Bournemouth
Fulham
Everton
Wolves
Crystal Palace
Luton town
Sheffield

I think Palace in a pretty big surprise (+600 on most sportsbooks) go down. I don’t think they’ll generate enough offense and they’ll take too many draws when they need a win.

One match I’m circling is wolves home versus Crystal in the penultimate week of the season. That screams “winner stays up loser goes down” to me

[Eckstein197]

Likewise, my picks for promotion in championship will be Leicester winning the league, with Blackburn coming in second

The playoff will feature

3rd seeded Middlesborough versus 6th seeded Coventry

4th seeded Watford versus 5th seeded Southampton

Watford then beats Coventry to be promoted

For relegation I think QPR gets relegated, along with Sheffield Wednesday and Huddersfield

[YayNJ]

Premier League

Arsenal
Manchester City
Liverpool
------
Bournemouth
Everton
Luton

[cardbuster]

There is no way that Liverpool and Newcastle will finish ahead of Man U. It seems like no one is giving them a chance, that is why they look like they could pull a fast one, against all odds.

[YayNJ]

Manchester United haven't really strengthened. Hojlund will need time. He's no Haaland. Mount is the epitome of Premier League average. Is Onana really any better than De Gea? The answer is no.

Giving Fernandes the captaincy is madness IMO. Perhaps the most petulant player in the Premier League. Should never be forgotten how he literally surrendered on the pitch last season when they got a thrashing.

[mikee1186]

United would have to be extremely lucky to hit top 4. Far too many weak spots and thin at several positions, plus a fair amount if their focus will be on champions league.

Everton to go down. I just don’t think even Sean Dyche is a miracle worker. The club is horribly situated and their transfer window has been dire.

[Gin&Juice]

Arsenal
Man City
Liverpool
Aston Villa
Man U
Newcastle
—————-
Nottingham Forest
Sheffield United
Luton Town

Flip Man City and Liverpool if De Bruyne is out for extended period and Liverpool gets Caicedo. Think City is going to miss Gundogan and Mahrez more than they realize. They just don’t have the same depth in midfield or attack as they have in the past.

[fadster]

Man City
(expect the next 4 qualifying for the UCL to be close)
Arsenal
Liverpool
Newcastle
Man Utd
(then a group of Chelsea, Brighton, Villa, Spurs fighting for UEL)

Relegated
Wolves
Luton
Sheffield United

[YayNJ]

Desperate end for Arsenal this afternoon. Rice was blowing out of his arse! :D

[mfw13]

Newcastle put the league on notice with a resounding 5-1 thumping of Aston Villa.

And with KDB out for a few weeks and Man City having to play the SuperCup in Greece on Wednesday night, things are set up nicely for Newcastle to grab a point at the Etihad on Saturday.

[Tones]

Thought it was about time to toss in my Premier League Predictions... I went with my logic rather than my heart, of course I want Arsenal to win it all but this is going to be a TOUGH season.

Manchester City
Manchester United
Arsenal
Liverpool
Newcastle
Aston Villa
Chelsea
Brighton
Tottenham
Brentford
Fulham
Burnley
West Ham
Everton
Nottingham Forrest
Wolverhampton
Bournemouth
Crystal Palace
Luton Town
Sheffield United

Picking to Champions and the bottom two were definitely the easiest. Luton and Sheffield both just don't have the capacity to stay up in this League. Manchester City have bought the league again and it's going to be there league until Pep leaves.

Arsenal and Manchester United have both recruited well and that is the real battle at the top of who will finish 2nd. Newcastle and Aston Villa both have great teams and coaches and will challenge for the top 4 but I think the added strain of European nights will see them miss out on the Champions League spots.

Chelsea a lot of people saying top 4, but they have had a massive overhaul in that team and a new coach, it is going to be a messy year to get a flow going (not to mention their striker signing already getting injured).

I kept my bias out of the equation and really wanted to put Spuds even lower, which could definitely happen. Harry Kane is that type of player you can't replace. If it wasn't for Halaand last season he would have won the golden boot playing in a team that finished 8th,he is just on a different level. I thought about putting them one spot even lower, but Brentford not having Ivan Toney until January due to suspension had me keep them there.

The newly promoted team that I don't have going down is Burnley. This is not the scrappy heavy playing Burnley of old. Vincent Kompany is an amazing manager and they play a beautiful game now. The future Manchester City manager will put in some amazing results this year.

As for the other team going down? Crystal Palace, and they have nobody else to blame but themselves. They refused to rebuild when they could have gotten a good sum of money for Zaha and yet now he has walked for free. They have regressed by reappointing a washed up manager in Roy Hodgson and have done zero reinvesting in the team. I think it will be close between them and Bournemouth in that 18th spot

[YayNJ]

As for the other team going down? Crystal Palace, and they have nobody else to blame but themselves. They refused to rebuild when they could have gotten a good sum of money for Zaha and yet now he has walked for free. They have regressed by reappointing a washed up manager in Roy Hodgson and have done zero reinvesting in the team. I think it will be close between them and Bournemouth in that 18th spot

That washed up manager currently has a 55% win percentage with Palace. They have lost just twice since his reappointment.

As long as they have Olise, Eze and Guehi they aren't going anywhere.

Swap Everton for Palace in your predictions ;)

[YayNJ]

That squad Chelsea have put out today is absolutely shocking considering the billions they have spent, yet they are somehow beating Liverpool as I type this.

Scenes

Phone the Police!

edit - nope, second Chelsea goal ruled offside!

[mfw13]

That squad Chelsea have put out today is absolutely shocking considering the billions they have spent...

The problem for Chelsea is that they buy players on a whim, generally end up overpaying for most of them, and therefore end up with an imbalanced squad with no chemistry.

Compare that to a team like Newcastle, that builds carefully and cautiously and makes sure that new signings will fit into the club culture and not disrupt team chemistry.

Since Eddie Howe took over, EVERY SINGLE SIGNING by Newcastle has worked out. For a team with so many new faces over the past 18 months, you hear ZERO moaning from anybody about playing time, as epitomized by Jamal Lascalles, who remains the team captain despite being the backup RCB.

Compare that to the Chelsea circus.....

[kingb22]

The problem for Chelsea is that they buy players on a whim, generally end up overpaying for most of them, and therefore end up with an imbalanced squad with no chemistry.

Compare that to a team like Newcastle, that builds carefully and cautiously and makes sure that new signings will fit into the club culture and not disrupt team chemistry.

Since Eddie Howe took over, EVERY SINGLE SIGNING by Newcastle has worked out. For a team with so many new faces over the past 18 months, you hear ZERO moaning from anybody about playing time, as epitomized by Jamal Lascalles, who remains the team captain despite being the backup RCB.

Compare that to the Chelsea circus.....

The miracle of Newcastle is that even Jolinton has a role, in addition to their 7'2" right back Dan Burn. I was always a bit skeptical on the notion that Eddie Howe could.one day coach Arsenal or England, but I get it now

[tupacgr13]

Well that was an interesting weekend. We will see how will Newcastle deal with Champions League and EPL together after a long time but this team has some nice depth. I think Aston Villa will miss Mings a lot. As for the Crystal Palace debate I think they are solid and I have a lot of respect for Roy. I mean probably he cannot reinvent himself but when you see every team that he has been to have highly respect of him then its something. Plus the fact I really think Olise and Eze are magnificent players.

So for me top 3 is Arsenal, Manchester City, Newcastle United and bottom 3 I will go with Luton, Sheffield United and Bournemouth. As the biggest dissapointment of the season my vote goes for West Ham United and on the other hand I will vote for Brentford to have a better season than expected without Toney.

[kingb22]

As the biggest dissapointment of the season my vote goes for West Ham United and on the other hand I will vote for Brentford to have a better season than expected without Toney.

I saw West Ham signed Ward-Prowse today which will help them a lot, although you'd bet on them being a middling mid-table team this year.

re: Brentford, they had an interesting stat today - in 6 games without Toney since the start of last year, they are 4 W, 2 D, 0 L. Pretty impressive

[mfw13]

Looks like this weekend's upcoming Newcastle-Man City match will NOT be on TV in the US (NBC is showing Liverpool-Bournemouth).....only via streaming on Peacock.

[Tones]

That washed up manager currently has a 55% win percentage with Palace. They have lost just twice since his reappointment.

As long as they have Olise, Eze and Guehi they aren't going anywhere.

Swap Everton for Palace in your predictions ;)

When Hodgson was reappointed, yes they won there first three games, all of those games were against the teams who were later relegated. Then only managed 2 wins out of their last 7 games.

I have nothing against Crystal Palace but a opening day win over Sheffield United doesn't really say much, with the Blades probably going to be the first team mathematically relegated. Eze looked bright, really like him and is a great player as long as he can stay fit. Eduoard up to now has not been an amazing signing, if he can find form he can be a very good striker. Before the transfer window is closed, I personally think Michael Olise is going to leave. If he stays, huge.

I just see Crystal Palace as an extremely fragile team this season and one minor thing out of place and they are going down.

[kingb22]

I have nothing against Crystal Palace but a opening day win over Sheffield United doesn't really say much, with the Blades probably going to be the first team mathematically relegated.

I just see Crystal Palace as an extremely fragile team this season and one minor thing out of place and they are going down.

Last year was probably the best I can remember top to bottom in terms of talent level. This year both Sheffield and Luton seem very weak and destined for the drop. Teams like Burnley, CP, Everton, etc seem more the battle for 18th

[Eckstein197]

That was a penalty. Wolves straight robbed

[mikee1186]

That was a penalty. Wolves straight robbed

Looks like they admitted it after the game as well. First week and we already have an admitted VAR fail! No clue how they didn’t bring that back. Absolutely clattered him, nowhere near the ball.

[Tones]

That was a penalty. Wolves straight robbed
Howard Webb in the booth, forever helping Manchester United win games. Disgusting.

Wolves deserved the point, they were incredible today. Matheus Cunha will be one to watch this season.

[YayNJ]

ten years since Alex Fergusson stepped away from Manchester United, and they are still getting all the benefits.

[kingb22]

Looks like they admitted it after the game as well. First week and we already have an admitted VAR fail! No clue how they didn’t bring that back. Absolutely clattered him, nowhere near the ball.

It's crazy they don't have what they do in the NFL and have a central war room that makes and confirm decisions. Everyone besides the ref/var team who screwed up the original call could tell they were wrong - where is the adult supervision?

[mikee1186]

It's crazy they don't have what they do in the NFL and have a central war room that makes and confirm decisions. Everyone besides the ref/var team who screwed up the original call could tell they were wrong - where is the adult supervision?

Yeah I’ve thought about that as well. Why not have a central headquarters for this to handle all games? Get a team of qualified folks involved. This kind of failure just shouldn’t keep happening, but sometimes it may take a few level heads with strong training who are withdrawn enough from the heat of the game to take a fair, honest, objective look at each one. That’s all we want to see with VAR - consistently fair application.

So they banned this ref team from games next weekend. That’s SOMETHING, but is it going to help someone who exercised such poor judgment have better judgment next time? I have doubts.

[fadster]

I didn't think it was possible, but ever since Howard Webb came back into the fold the refereeing has somehow gotten markedly worse. It's like he's imbued the referees with a fresh sense of overconfidence and arrogance.

[bjho852]

De Bryune out for 4 months
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38196888/man-city-injury-setback-kevin-de-bruyne-set-miss-four-months

[tupacgr13]

Well too much happened in the first weekend. Wolves not getting awarded this penalty was abysmal. Also some yellows for ManU like the one at Bissaka. ManU was really awful. They probably are trying something when attacking with fullbacks turning to midfielders but didn't seem to work properly.

Olise and JWP moves are really nice. Too many injuries tho with Mings, KDB and Timber suffering heavy injuries.

[YayNJ]

They aren't even hiding it anymore.

Saudi Arabia will play two international friendlies at Newcastle United's St James' Park.

The Green Falcons will face Costa Rica on Friday, 8 September and South Korea on Tuesday, 12 September.

[mfw13]

De Bryune out for 4 months
https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38196888/man-city-injury-setback-kevin-de-bruyne-set-miss-four-months

Could this open up the title race?

[mfw13]

They aren't even hiding it anymore.

Saudi Arabia will play two international friendlies at Newcastle United's St James' Park.

The Green Falcons will face Costa Rica on Friday, 8 September and South Korea on Tuesday, 12 September.

So?

National teams play international friendlies at neutral sites all the time.

Seems logical for the Saudis to play in Newcastle....just like it would be for the UAE to play a friendly at the Etihad or Emirates, or Qatar to play a friendly at the Parc des Princes. They've got to play somewhere, after all.

The real issue would be if the four PIF-controlled teams in the Saudi League start loaning or selling players to Newcastle at below market rates....

[mikee1186]

Could this open up the title race?

Absolutely. He’s their second most important player and there’s no adequate replacement. Makes the squad look fairly thin now as well. Now they do operate like a well oiled machine with some amount of plug and play ability but nobody else can do what kdb does. He’s class. Will it cause them to drop some points? I would expect so, to some small extent. Arsenal can’t waste this period.

[mfw13]

Absolutely. He’s their second most important player and there’s no adequate replacement. Makes the squad look fairly thin now as well. Now they do operate like a well oiled machine with some amount of plug and play ability but nobody else can do what kdb does. He’s class. Will it cause them to drop some points? I would expect so, to some small extent. Arsenal can’t waste this period.

Well Arsenal aren't their only challengers.....they host Newcastle this weekend on a short week after the UEFA SuperCup today, and Newcastle look to be in top form after last weekend's demolishment of Aston Villa.

[mikee1186]

Well Arsenal aren't their only challengers.....they host Newcastle this weekend on a short week after the UEFA SuperCup today, and Newcastle look to be in top form after last weekend's demolishment of Aston Villa.

Newcastle did look good! Tonali looked class in his debut. Lots of weapons all around and very well managed. We’ll see if they can maintain it on multiple fronts once UCL starts up. I just think Arsenal are better positioned for the challenge.

[YayNJ]

So?

National teams play international friendlies at neutral sites all the time.

Seems logical for the Saudis to play in Newcastle....just like it would be for the UAE to play a friendly at the Etihad or Emirates, or Qatar to play a friendly at the Parc des Princes. They've got to play somewhere, after all.

:doh:

They have got you already, huh.

[mfw13]

:doh:

They have got you already, huh.

With all due respect, pretty much everyone with enough money to own a major football club these days is going to have plenty of skeletons in their closets...you simply don't get that rich without being an a**hole. The Saudis may have done some reprehensible things, but so have the owners of many other big clubs.

You either accept that a lot of bad people/organizations own football clubs these days, or you stop watching football.

I've been a Newcastle supporter for 30+ years....all I care about it that whomever owns the club runs it well.

Would you stop supporting Leeds if a Putin crony or horrible African dictator bought them? I doubt it....

[YayNJ]

Would you stop supporting Leeds if a Putin crony or horrible African dictator bought them? I doubt it....

Yeah, I would. As would many lifelong Leeds fans. Many walked away during Ken Bates tenure and went and gave their hard-earned to their local village sides like Farsley Celtic, Harrogate or Garforth. Out of towners got more involved in non-league in their location. I ended up as a shareholder of a tiny team in the south east.

There's a large body of fans, 'legacy fans' as they were called recently by the money men behind the 'Super League' that are genuinely tired of modern football and where it's headed, because modern football doesn't give a #@#@#@#@ about 'legacy fans' , history, community or tradition. They have made it quite clear that football tourists who will pay extortionate amounts for 'packages' and plastics at home buying stuff from the club shop and paying for cable are far more important.

The foundations of F.C. United of Manchester and A.F.C. Liverpool are good examples.

[mikee1186]

Reece James reportedly picked up another hamstring injury, with severity unknown. Lad is a beast but can’t stay healthy.

[tupacgr13]

Reece James reportedly picked up another hamstring injury, with severity unknown. Lad is a beast but can’t stay healthy.

Feel bad for him to be honest. He is a very good player when fit.

[mikee1186]

Feel bad for him to be honest. He is a very good player when fit.

Yeah agreed, hope he gets it sorted out but it’s a very poor injury record at this point in his young career.

[fadster]

Over the last 4 seasons, Reece James has only played just over 50% of possible minutes in the PL and Chilwell just over 40% in his first 3 seasons at Chelsea.

[YayNJ]

That probably explains why there's thousands of Chilwell autos every year. Poor lad hasn't got anything else to do.

[kingb22]

That probably explains why there's thousands of Chilwell autos every year. Poor lad hasn't got anything else to do.

He could work on his shooting? He's got a slice on his shot worse than my golf swing :)

[longbomberz]

Nice to see Tottenham freed of Mourinho/Conte terror-ball tactics.

[YayNJ]

Nice to see Tottenham freed of Mourinho/Conte terror-ball tactics.

two of the most successful Spurs managers of all time (win percentage), as much as it pains spurs fans lol

[kingb22]

Man are Everton bad - do they escape relegation again or finally fall?

I saw during the game that Zanniolo has a season long loan to Villa. I hope he does well or at least well enough to unload his rookie cards after a good game!

[kobewhite]

Enzo is Chelsea's penalty taker???

[YayNJ]

all that money Chelsea have spent

loool

[tupacgr13]

Guess not much interest since all the big championships started but AEK Athens had a dramatic match against Dinamo Zagreb qualifing with 2 goals at extra time. Livakovic had an amazing game.

I like the Postekoglou aura. He seems like a decent guy. Manchester United doesn't look good. Seems like they did some changes on their system and the players are still adapting.

[obenheimer78]

I was never a huge Kane fan when he was in the EPL, but he's lighting it up for Bayern and I absolutely love it. I just hope they can do something in the C.L. this year and bring that title back to Germany.

[mfw13]

I was never a huge Kane fan when he was in the EPL, but he's lighting it up for Bayern and I absolutely love it.

Bayern have so much more talent than the rest of the teams in the Bundesliga that their #1 striker is pretty much guaranteed to score 30+ goals, just like Lewandowski did.

It's one of the reasons that Lewandowski's cards don't generate all that much interest....his achievements are/were expected given the quality of the teams he played for.

[Gin&Juice]

Kane didn’t generate much hobby interest when he was the most complete striker in the Premier League, either, though. He is soft-spoken, not flashy and doesn’t do much self-endorsement so he is criminally underrated.

Maybe some extra-gaudy Bundesliga numbers will get him the attention he deserves.

[YayNJ]

Kane's 213 league goals in 317 league games for a bang average Tottenham side is more of an achievement than winning trophies at Bayern.

He's been one of the best strikers of this generation for nigh on a decade. He's a complete number nine. It highlights a deficit of the hobby though - card value in no way reflects talent. If he would have moved to Spain (or even Italy/Germany) in his prime he'd be sitting on 400+ career goals by now easily.

[bjho852]

Guess not much interest since all the big championships started but AEK Athens had a dramatic match against Dinamo Zagreb qualifing with 2 goals at extra time.

I wasn't aware that Marseille got knocked out by PAO until now. Hope that PAO will have a decent campaign.

[tupacgr13]

I wasn't aware that Marseille got knocked out by PAO until now. Hope that PAO will have a decent campaign.

They play tonight against Braga from Portugal. First leg 2-1 for the portuguese side. I think its a 50-50. Braga is better team but Panathinaikos have been missing the group stage for over a decade so the stadium is going to be packed. They do not play in the original Panathinaikos venue but on the national olympic stadium which has a capacity of around 70.000 people. If they score a goal it would be tough for the youngsters of Braga to cope with that. Against Marseille they had been extremely lucky on the second leg but thats football. I think from tonight's(EU timezone at least) games is the one to watch if you to chose to watch one.

[mikee1186]

We’ll see. I doubt we’ve seen the last of hendo in the England kit, even if it’s a bit longer.

Hendo called into the England squad :flex:

No place for Nick pope? Strange call given the form of ramsdale and Pickford.

Trent listed in midfield :)!

[YayNJ]

Eddie Nketiah called up. Passed me by just how barren England are right now for strikers. Gelhardt and Bamford still in the top 15 despite being in the Championship and a permanent crock and slower than sloth respectively.

Solanke and Danny Ings. Crikey.

https://i.imgur.com/FcJqNaW.png

[Gin&Juice]

At least you have Kane at the top. It is amazing how few really good strikers are out there at this point. As shallow as that list is for England, it is deeper than Spain, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Brazil, and Argentina.

[kingb22]

Calvert-Lewin has 7 league goals since 20-21 (35 games played). Crazy he's still top 5

[yiguiri2002]

Group F is going to be insane. PSG with a real chance of not making it to the next round.

[YayNJ]

At least you have Kane at the top. It is amazing how few really good strikers are out there at this point. As shallow as that list is for England, it is deeper than Spain, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Belgium, Portugal, Brazil, and Argentina.

Yeah they all stink to be fair aside from Brazil who have Jesus, Firmino and Richarlison (who is decent for Brazil)

It's worrying because there's no players in sight to take up the mantle for their respective countries. An over reliance on pace above all else in the modern game, top flight clubs have been obsessed with churning out pacey wingers for the last ten years.

The traditional number 9 and 5 are dying breeds.

[mikee1186]

Group F is going to be insane. PSG with a real chance of not making it to the next round.

What a great group! Will be fun to watch it unfold. For those wondering:

PSG
Dortmund
AC Milan
Newcastle

[YayNJ]

I think Newcastle have a decent chance in that group. They should be able to get six/seven points at home at least, and no reason why they can't get three or four on the road.

Genuinely think they will get six points against PSG.

[Gin&Juice]

Can't remember a time when I was so underwhelmed overall by the groups. Outside of F, is there another group that generates much excitement? I'm sure we will see some upsets, but it seems to me that the upsets will be more the result of the fact that there are just a lot of mediocre teams in the tournament. Group E might be the worst group ever assembled unless that honor goes to Group D instead.

[yiguiri2002]

Can't remember a time when I was so underwhelmed overall by the groups. Outside of F, is there another group that generates much excitement? I'm sure we will see some upsets, but it seems to me that the upsets will be more the result of the fact that there are just a lot of mediocre teams in the tournament. Group E might be the worst group ever assembled unless that honor goes to Group D instead.

The Napoli-Real matchup is the most interesting thing after Group F for me. I also want to see what happens in Group B - Arsenal should win it but I think PSV will surprise people.

[tupacgr13]

I am excited to see Barcola in PSG. I really enjoyed watching him in the U21 tournament.

[YayNJ]

Brighton Vs Ajax

What a match-up

[kellmuff]

I'm on the other end re Newcastle and think they'll get slapped around. The occasion will be too big for a lot of their players, and Howe.

[tupacgr13]

Brighton Vs Ajax

What a match-up

Well weird emotion because my team got in that group along with Marseille. Really tough for us but on the other hand all the teams are pretty amazing in this group so its going to be highly enjoyable.

[YayNJ]

Perhaps Chelsea can spend another £500 million on a couple more players on 14 year contracts

Mudryk is absolute toss

The Chelsea squad is a mish-mash of budget players they have paid 4x too much for, and you use in fantasy football squads to fill up your spots :D

Todd Boehly :doh:

[Writer]

Bellingham with another match winning goal. What a start at Madrid.

[LittleJimmies]

Sonny! Loving new look Spurs.

[YayNJ]

Worth a punt on Beheady Howe being first for the chop this season

[Writer]

Worth a punt on Beheady Howe being first for the chop this season

I felt they'd take a step back this season with a much busier schedule, but 3 points after round 4 is a shock.

[kingb22]

Good day for Leipzig's young guys. Xavi Simons with a goal and assist (2 goals, 2 assists in 3 Bundesliga games). Benjamin Sesko with 2 goals in 15 minutes of play

[mfw13]

I think Newcastle have a decent chance in that group. They should be able to get six/seven points at home at least, and no reason why they can't get three or four on the road.

Genuinely think they will get six points against PSG.

If we play the way we've been playing in the EPL so far, we'll get destroyed.

Team's are adjusting to Eddie Howe's tactics and learning how to exploit Dan Burn on the left side of our defense.

The fact that we didn't bring in a #10 during the offseason is really showing....everyone knows that we are attacking primarily down the wings and are now defending against it.

[YayNJ]

LOL criminal. The Glazers are a pox on English football.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vj10dWQAA3-jr?format=jpg&name=medium

[kingb22]

LOL criminal. The Glazers are a pox on English football.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5Vj10dWQAA3-jr?format=jpg&name=medium

It seems criminal that you can buy a team leveraging extensive loans, and then immediately dump said loans onto the team. As long as sports team values continue to appreciate they make out by selling, but the team itself can suffer if any bumps in the road are hit

[YayNJ]

Julian Alvarez on the shortlist for the Ballon D'or this year.

wtf

Andre Onana :doh:
Randal Kolo Muani :confused:
Lautaro Martinez :rolleyes:

Elye Wahi up for the young player award despite carrying a lot of off-field luggage

[Ianhatcher]

I have lost all interest in the D'or after what they did to players to prop Messi up and they are going to do it again in the biggest screwjob yet as Haaland was far and away the best player in the world.

[MonsterTruck20]

Messi was so disappointing at PSG during the 2022-23 season that he ended up being booed by the club’s own supporters. Yet he will walk away with another ballon dOr. It’s no wonder people don’t take these prices seriously anymore.

[tupacgr13]

Its a joke award nowadays. Manchester City has been perfoming amazing. It should be somewhere between Rodri, KDB and Haaland imo.

[YayNJ]

It's been a joke since the 90's. It's all a fix. Nothing but back slapping, glamour and drama like a soap opera.

Messi will likely walk away with it, due to the world cup win - that seems to be enough to have plenty of Argentina players on the list. Ignoring the fact he had a pretty awful club season by his standards.

[fadster]

People fall into the trap of overweighting the UCL for the Ballon D'Or, It's a global award and international football is a much bigger component for voters than many of us think, eg Modric winning on the back of the previous World Cup, Messi winning after the Copa America win. Messi will deservedly win for putting in a historic performance on the biggest possible stage. I'm not entirely sure Haaland is even a lock for 2nd, Mbappe's World Cup performance with only the second final hat-trick, going toe to toe with Messi will get a ton of votes, especially outside the top few UEFA countries.

[YayNJ]

That's all great, and scoring a hat-trick is wonderful, but the whole point of the award is supposed to be to champion the most sensational player of the year. the year being the key word. It's not a reward for a one off performance, or a short knock out competition. That's what player of the tournament awards are for.

Both Mbappe and Messi had messy (sorry) domestic seasons.

Ribery getting conned still leaves a bad taste. Lewandowski likely never winning one is a travesty. Henry getting snubbed in 2003. Since the 1990's it's favoured two leagues - Italy and Spain, and as they have wobbled and staggered from the glamour and glory of the past, and Spains 'Galactico' era, the award has served as not much more than a ego boost and fawning for the two most corrupt leagues in European football. It's an award that is practically guaranteed to go to a player from either Madrid and Barcelona, or Juventus or Milan.

Long gone are the days when real fairy-tale stories were rewarded - players from the likes of Red Star Belgrade, Kyiv, Verona for standout seasons against the odds against the worlds best.

It seems to hit home more each day just how garbage modern football is. It's a circus.

[fadster]

Wrongly or rightly it's never been just a consistency / stat accumulation award though, there's always been a hierarchy to how tournaments are considered and an emphasis on reaching the highest highs. Unfortunately for Haaland he kind of did things the wrong way around, racked up the goals early on and then went quiet at the business end of the season.

[mikee1186]

Let’s not forget that Alisson hasn’t made the best goalkeeper short list which is bonkers given the year he had.

[fadster]

On Henry v Nedved in 2003, which seems to come up a lot. It pains me to say, that as amazing as Henry was domestically the team and Henry struggled in Europe while Nedved was brilliant for Juve in the UCL and the league. There were very few complaints at the time, with Henry only just beating out Maldini for 2nd place. Henry never won the Ballon d'Or and this ended up being as close as he ever got, in hindsight I guess people feel that he was robbed based off of his career but in that year Nedved was a worthy winner.

2010 is the one that bugs me most. Any of Iniesta, Xavi, Sneijder would have made better winners than Messi that year, but I fear they (and Forlan) basically split the World Cup vote too much and let the sticky Messi vote sneak past them.

[Ianhatcher]

I don't think the award should be decided on a 7 game tournament and that is exactly what they did in 2021 and likely this year as well just because after 4 lost International finals he finally wins one after so many chances that he blew. Lewandowski getting screwed in 2021 was bad enough, this is going to be worse. Everyone pretty much got out of the way for Argentina to win that World Cup. Van Gaal is 100% correct that that is what they wanted. Scripted is a bit of a stretch but they certainly had a lot of help.

If the World Cup was the end all be all why didn't Iniesta win it in 2010? When was the last time a World Cup winner won it? Cannavaro in 2006 and before him Ronaldo in 2002?

Iniesta screwed over in 2010,. Neymar in 2015. Lewandowski in 2021 and now Haaland in 2023. It's just pathetic at this point.

[fadster]

Ballon D'Or podiums in World Cup years

1990
1st Germany Lothar Matthäus - Germany's best player on the way to winning WC
2nd Italy Salvatore Schillaci - Golden ball and golden boot at the WC, big part of Juve's UEFA cup win
3rd Germany Andreas Brehme - Scored the winning goal in WC final

1994
1st Bulgaria Hristo Stoichkov - Golden boot at WC and led fairy tale Bulgaria to semis, also starred for Barcelona on the way to UCL final
2nd Italy Roberto Baggio - WC finalists Italy's biggest star
3rd Italy Paolo Maldini - WC finalists Italy and UCL winner
*last WC year non-Europeans not eligible for Ballon d'Or otherwise Romario would have won

1998
1st France Zinedine Zidane - French talisman on way to WC win on home soil, helped Juve reach UCL final
2nd Croatia Davor Šuker - Star for Croatia who made the WC semis, also won UCL with Real Madrid but not a regular starter for them
3rd Brazil Ronaldo Italy Inter Milan - Player of the tournament at WC, final episode aside, also serie A top scorer for Inter.

2002
1st Brazil Ronaldo - Came back from serious injury to win and star at the World Cup, redemption for 98
2nd Brazil Roberto Carlos - starred for Brazil and Real Madrid on way to winning both World Cup and UCL
3rd Germany Oliver Kahn - World Cup best player award on way to final

2006
1st Italy Fabio Cannavaro - Captained Italy to WC win built on defenseive effort
2nd Italy Gianluigi Buffon - Key part of Italys WC win
3rd France Thierry Henry - made WC team of the tournament on way to final, top scorer in PL and became Arsenal top scorer but no silverware

2010
1st Argentina Lionel Messi - Poor WC, but won Liga and European Golden boot
2nd Spain Andrés Iniesta - WC final winner as Spain tiki-taka'ed their way to victory
3rd Spain Xavi - see Iniesta, ended up splitting the vote

2014
1st Portugal Cristiano Ronaldo - Amazing UCL with 17 goals, European Golden Shoe, poor WC
2nd Argentina Lionel Messi - Undeserved WC Golden Ball on the way to WC final
3rd Germany Manuel Neuer - Probably pick of the players for the winners (along with Muller) at a World Cup where no single player had an amazing tournament

2018
1st Croatia Luka Modrić - Key player for Croatia's run to WC final and Real Madrids run to the UCL
2nd Portugal Cristiano Ronaldo - Great UCL for Real Madrid but poor World Cup
3rd France Antoine Griezmann - Silver boot and Bronze Ball for WC winners France, plus UEL player of the season for Atletico.

Your only chance to win without a strong World Cup is to hope no one has a special World Cup (like 2014), or get lucky that just enough players do to split the vote (like 2010), and then you have to be someone like Messi or CR7 at the peak of their powers to capitalise.

[yiguiri2002]

Yeah, any normal year Haaland wins it. It's gonna be really hard for him to overcome Messi's WC when he didn't even play in it.

I do wonder how people rank competitions in a World Cup year. My rankings would be:

- World Cup (40%)
- UCL (30%)
- Domestic League (20%)
- Qualifiers/Domestic Cup (10%)

I would give Haaland a very slight edge based on that but it's crazy that people think either of them winning would be a travesty. World Cup matters, just look at fadster breakdown for the last few ones.

[Ianhatcher]

Again. They are basing the entire year on a 7 game tournament because it benefits Messi and yes still the most coveted trophy by players but I feel from a fan perspective the CL is gaining a lot of traction.

So this is what you have:

1st: Messi- WC winner, Ligue 1 winner
2nd: Haaland- CL winner, FA Cup winner, EPL winner, UEFA Super Cup wiiner, Golden Shoe Europe, Cl top scorer, breaks EPL scoring record
Mbappe- WC Golden boot, WC finalist, Ligue 1 winner

That's not even getting into the stats which is ridiculously Erling Haaland favored and was Messi's WC really that great? 3 goals from open play and 4 of 5 pks? Not so sure about that.

2010 they threw the WC out with the bath water in favor of Messi as his teammate at Barcelona gets screwed (maybe in part to the split votes). They did the exact opposite in 2018 with Modric and Ronaldo and Modric didn't even win the WC. 2014 there really wasn't anyone close to Ronaldo or Messi so it was essentially Ronaldo. Had Messi won the WC after not doing much you can bet 100% they would have given it to him.

Haaland like Iniesta, van Dijk, Lewandowski and Jorgino will be another victim that they will throw the UEFA Men's award at and then hand Messi the D'or.

We all know how this plays out.

[mfw13]

Again. They are basing the entire year on a 7 game tournament because it benefits Messi and yes still the most coveted trophy by players but I feel from a fan perspective the CL is gaining a lot of traction.

The reason national team accomplishments are generally valued more highly than club team accomplishments is because money has zero impact on tournaments like the World Cup.

While Haaland's accomplishments for Man City were incredible, the fact that Man City were favored to win every single trophy that they competed for due to their financial might can't be ignored.

[YayNJ]

While Haaland's accomplishments for Man City were incredible, the fact that Man City were favored to win every single trophy that they competed for due to their financial might can't be ignored.

Manchester City have spent less (NET spend) than Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal over the last ten years, they have also spent less than PSG. In the same ten year period (2014-2023) Newcastle, Barcelona and Tottenham are close on Manchester City's tail.

Manchester United have spent nearly half a billion more.

Man City buying trophies is largely a myth in the grand scheme of things, and quite insulting towards the players and their coaching staff.

[YayNJ]

Some interesting info today re: Tyler Adams.

Turns out he was going to / was threatening to sue Leeds United because they got relegated.

McKennie, Adams, Aaronson... utter wankers. Adams an absolute snake.

[mfw13]

Manchester City have spent less (NET spend) than Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal over the last ten years, they have also spent less than PSG. In the same ten year period (2014-2023) Newcastle, Barcelona and Tottenham are close on Manchester City's tail.

Manchester United have spent nearly half a billion more.

Man City buying trophies is largely a myth in the grand scheme of things, and quite insulting towards the players and their coaching staff.

Of course, Man City have had excellent manager(s).....but let's not pretend that they haven't splashed the cash as well....they signed Grealish for a British-record 100+ million, and then they signed Haaland.

[YayNJ]

Of course, Man City have had excellent manager(s).....but let's not pretend that they haven't splashed the cash as well....they signed Grealish for a British-record 100+ million, and then they signed Haaland.

... and still spent less than Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea.

Yet apparently only Manchester City is expected to win due to money spent?

[YayNJ]

Are you all saving up for Yamine Lamal?

choo choo!

[fadster]

Looking forward to moving Lawal with the other three in a couple of years after Spain decide to give a debut to a toddler

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230908/59409207cdbc155d528bb7b8566c1014.jpg

[Ianhatcher]

I still have a lot of Fati which I am fine with and even more so now that he isn't playing for Barca. Never went in on Pedri although I think he's a talented midfielder I have zero interest in him. Gavi is just a little punk with little man syndrome and I refuse to collect him. What happened to his ear though last weekend was nuts. The guy is out there playing soccer like it's a rugby match.

[YayNJ]

Fati had everything he needed to be world class, I honestly, truly believe he would have been.. alas, those injuries, we will probably only see 50% of what he could be.. and that's still going to be a top level player if he stays fit and looks after his body. Brighton was such a perfect move for him.

Pedri is a bit bland, but along with Bellingham he's up there.

I've got some Gavi cards just incase. Kid was born in the wrong era. If he were around even in the 90's he'd be loving it.

[CiaranGQ]

I don't think the award should be decided on a 7 game tournament and that is exactly what they did in 2021 and likely Everyone pretty much got out of the way for Argentina to win that World Cup. Van Gaal is 100% correct that that is what they wanted. Scripted is a bit of a stretch but they certainly had a lot of help.


Absolute nonsense

[GaslampSports]

I like Malo Gusto and Kevin Schade

[PhillyVintage]

I like Malo Gusto and Kevin Schade

I think Schade was a good pickup by Brentford. I’m an SC Freiburg supporter, so I’ve seen a lot of him and he should play well.

[MonsterTruck20]

Absolute nonsense

Makes a lot of sense.

[fadster]

How a manager can make a big deal of picking on club form and then continue to pick Maguire and Henderson is criminal.

[YayNJ]

How a manager can make a big deal of picking on club form and then continue to pick Maguire and Henderson is criminal.

Phillips on the bench too. It's comical.

[chiefs]

Ukraine looked good today. I like the direction under Rebrov. When zinchenko and stepanenko play in the midfield I always like our chances. Hopefully mudryk is ok for Italy match next.

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[chiefs]

Off the pitch this was the biggest home match for Ukraine since war began. Absolute beautiful crowd in Poland. Dark times in Ukraine and this is obviously a nice reprieve and feel good moment

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[CiaranGQ]

Off the pitch this was the biggest home match for Ukraine since war began. Absolute beautiful crowd in Poland. Dark times in Ukraine and this is obviously a nice reprieve and feel good moment

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A proper football country. I recall the fantastic Dynamo Kiev side of the 1980s which, on their day, was as good as any club side in the world back then. The 1986 ECWC final versus Atletico is a case in point.

Have not been to Ukraine since Northern Ireland’s 0-0 draw in Donetsk just over 20 years ago (06 Sept 2003).

[YayNJ]

there's some real end of days stuff going on with the German national team this past couple of years... crazy.

[jmcca170]

there's some real end of days stuff going on with the German national team this past couple of years... crazy.


Yea, absolutely baffling to me.. maybe this is too simplistic and/or not realistic, but after the 2010 and 2014 world cups I would think there would be a massive generation of German talents who were kids back then ready to take over… not to mention these same kids have been watching and inspired over a decade of straight dominance from Bayern. How that country can’t produce a single top goal scoring threat is beyond me. Not a single top class defender anywhere to be found.

Take a look at the Bayern squad and it looks very little like the mid-2010s in terms of German influence.

I have no idea where the blame lies or what’s at the root of the problem. My suspicion is it isn’t Flick, but he’s gonna be the first one to go… Definitely curious to hear other thoughts as well…


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[mfw13]

I have no idea where the blame lies or what’s at the root of the problem. My suspicion is it isn’t Flick, but he’s gonna be the first one to go… Definitely curious to hear other thoughts as well…

At the root of it all is a lack of world-class talent....no German has finished in the top-10 of the Ballon D'Or since 2015 (when Muller and Neuer) both did it.

They've developed some good players, to be sure, but not any great ones. And that's caught up with them as other countries have improved.

[cardbuster]

In other news, Antony has been excluded from the Brazil national team and United have also delayed his return to the club until the allegations are settled. What is going on with these complaints, are they really true, or is it just a trend?

[YayNJ]

In other news, Antony has been excluded from the Brazil national team and United have also delayed his return to the club until the allegations are settled. What is going on with these complaints, are they really true, or is it just a trend?

Ronaldo, Antony, Greenwood, Evans ... list goes on.

something in the air at Manchester United

[kingb22]

In a blast from the past, The Athletic had an evaluation of potential candidates to replace Mo Salah if he moves in the winter window. On that list was .. Takefusa Kubo (now of Real Sociedad). Still only 22, he has 3 goals and 1 assist this season after 9 and 7 last year. Apparently his calling card is his dribbling - was fourth in attacking carries last year. I'm sure it's unlikely to happen, but since I bought a bunch of the 2019-20 Chronicles set I'd be happy if it did.

[Meets1]

At the root of it all is a lack of world-class talent....no German has finished in the top-10 of the Ballon D'Or since 2015 (when Muller and Neuer) both did it.

They've developed some good players, to be sure, but not any great ones. And that's caught up with them as other countries have improved.


Could it be just a matter of chance? Eg just a 'dead spot' generationally in terms of talent just not being born during a 5 year or so window? Seems to happen to many countries (eg. who is the world-class talent for the Dutch post-Robben/RVP/Sneijder et al, is there a follow-up to the Belgian 'Golden Generation') etc. Maybe it's just finally Germany's time to ride through a dead spot.

[YayNJ]

Could it be just a matter of chance? Eg just a 'dead spot' generationally in terms of talent just not being born during a 5 year or so window? Seems to happen to many countries (eg. who is the world-class talent for the Dutch post-Robben/RVP/Sneijder et al, is there a follow-up to the Belgian 'Golden Generation') etc. Maybe it's just finally Germany's time to ride through a dead spot.

There's nobody in their youth teams either that look like they are standouts.

They currently have Wirtz, and not much else... there's Youssoufa Moukoko obviously, but I'm not sold on him.

Of course there's Jamal Musiala but he did most of his development in the English system as a British citizen at Chelsea, alongside the likes of Gallagher, Livramento, Lamptey and Billy Gilmour.

[mfw13]

Could it be just a matter of chance? Eg just a 'dead spot' generationally in terms of talent just not being born during a 5 year or so window? Seems to happen to many countries (eg. who is the world-class talent for the Dutch post-Robben/RVP/Sneijder et al, is there a follow-up to the Belgian 'Golden Generation') etc. Maybe it's just finally Germany's time to ride through a dead spot.

It certainly could....after all Italy is going through the same thing, having failed to produce any world class players really since Pirlo.

Another theory I have is that the concentration of spending power in the EPL is harming player development by putting too many players into situations where they do not get enough playing time and ending up sitting on the bench.

In Germany's case that would be Werner and Haavertz's moves from the Bundesliga (where both were playing well and developing nicely) to Chelsea (where both struggled and stagnated). Both would have been much better off staying in the Bundesliga.

[YayNJ]

It certainly could....after all Italy is going through the same thing, having failed to produce any world class players really since Pirlo.

Balotelli.

Then he wasted it all away.

[kingb22]

Could it be just a matter of chance? Eg just a 'dead spot' generationally in terms of talent just not being born during a 5 year or so window? Seems to happen to many countries (eg. who is the world-class talent for the Dutch post-Robben/RVP/Sneijder et al, is there a follow-up to the Belgian 'Golden Generation') etc. Maybe it's just finally Germany's time to ride through a dead spot.

It's interesting how things ebb and flow. There has always been the odd elite talent at non-traditional powers ala Haaland, but then Norway also produces Odegaard in the same generation. Those two guys are arguably better than any attacking players Italy has produced in a decade. Spain between Xavi/Inesta had a disappointing gap until Pedri emerged, with guys like Isco, Marco Asensio and Ceballos not panning out. 1/2 the elite teams in the world missing an elite striker, but Serbia has Vlahovic and Mitrovic. In Germany's case before the 2012 Euros/2014 World Cup they were perceived as down also and came back quickly.

[YayNJ]

Pogba 'provisionally banned' from football. Drugs.

[fadster]

To be honest among the traditional international powers I think coaching, tactics and luck play a bigger part than talent level, which is fairly even. In Germany's specific case I think it's also a case of a whole sequence of fine margins not going their way, not a bad job to step into for the next guy.

[YayNJ]

Man Utd and Chelsea, the two most expensive soccer teams ever in the entire history of global football, currently sitting in 13th and 14th place in the Premier League.

Mudryk is absolute garbage.

[mfw13]

Can someone please explain why CBS has chosen Inter-Real Sociedad and Athletico Madrid-Lazio as the two over-the-air Champions League matches they're broadcasting this week???????

[CiaranGQ]

Can someone please explain why CBS has chosen Inter-Real Sociedad and Athletico Madrid-Lazio as the two over-the-air Champions League matches they're broadcasting this week???????

Why not?

I’m not long back into London from our (Internazionale’s) 5-1 defeat of Milan yesterday evening. Really does feel that we are getting our heart back after some difficult years (notwithstanding the Scudetto in 2021).

Real Sociedad will be a difficult game, added to the political dimension of their institution and that they haven’t been in the Champions League for a decade or more.

I’m not close enough to either but would have assumed Atletico vs Lazio as rightly one of the key games.

My first game of the Champions League campaign is not until start October - Inter’s home match vs Benfica. It is a re-run of last season’s quarter final but, more so, of the 1965 European Cup final, held at the then San Siro.

[mfw13]

Why not?

Because you've got Newcastle-AC Milan and PSG-Dortmund on Tuesday and Man United-Bayern Munich on Wednesday, all of which would generate much higher TV ratings.

My suspicion is that this is part of CBS' ongoing efforts to drive more people to subscribe to Paramount+, their streaming service.

[yiguiri2002]

Because you've got Newcastle-AC Milan and PSG-Dortmund on Tuesday and Man United-Bayern Munich on Wednesday, all of which would generate much higher TV ratings.

My suspicion is that this is part of CBS' ongoing efforts to drive more people to subscribe to Paramount+, their streaming service.

Nailed it.

And it will work IMO. I probably watch Paramount+ more often than any other streaming service, mostly because of the UCL. But there's also Europa, Serie A and a few shows and movies. It's becoming a must for every soccer fan in the US.

[kingb22]

Watching this Real Madrid - Sociedad game, Kubo is one of the best 3-4 players on the field. Kind of like with Xavi Simons, he's well on his way to becoming a completely legit player. His quickness with the ball is impressive and he has some serious pop on his shot - and made a beautiful pass to set up a sure goal on a header only for a great save by the goalie to stop it.

[mfw13]

Not any obviously thread to post this on, but a cool article about a regular pickup game featuring ex-pros by Rory Smith of the NY Times:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/17/sports/soccer/premier-league-pickup-game.html

[cardbuster]

Fun fact, as the Champions League starts in a few hours:

Bayern Munchen has not lost for 34 games in the group stage, an absolute record.

I will bet them hard against United (although I am a United fan, but money is always better).

[YayNJ]

A Newcastle fan has been stabbed in Milan

[tupacgr13]

A Newcastle fan has been stabbed in Milan

Sadly hooliganism is blossoming all over europe nowadays. In Greece its the 20th year anniversary of no away fans allowed in games.

[cardbuster]

CL 2023/2024 talks should go on here or will anyone open a new thread?
Also, anyone else is playing CL Fantasy? Pretty nice prizes, a dedicated app, etc.

[YayNJ]

Just keep it in here. There's only like six of us.

[Ianhatcher]

Another year of having to listen to Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher run their yaps.

uggh...

[yiguiri2002]

Another year of having to listen to Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher run their yaps.

uggh...

I think you might be the only one that doesn't like Micah. Dude's hilarious.

Also, great choice by CBS to put the Lazio-Atleti game, crazy ending.

[Ianhatcher]

The Lazio goal by Provedel on the last play...what a play from a GK!

[kobewhite]

How about Joao Felix....

Having quite the season since joining a good team.

[chiefs]

Another year of having to listen to Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher run their yaps.

uggh...On the plus side we get Kate abdo for another year

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[YayNJ]

On the plus side we get Kate abdo for another year

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Now we're talking

[jmcca170]

Another year of having to listen to Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher run their yaps.

uggh...


Congrats everyone. We found the only guy on the planet who doesn’t like their studio show


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[kobewhite]

Another year of having to listen to Micah Richards and Jamie Carragher run their yaps.

uggh...

Literally by far and away the most entertaining show to watch.....

How can you hate that crew with Thierry and Kate as well.

[CiaranGQ]

Manchester City fans taunting Red Star Belgrade fans last night with chants of, “Champions of Europe; you’ll never sing that”.

Ignorance and arrogance of certain modern fans summed up in just seven words.

[YayNJ]

Manchester City fans taunting Red Star Belgrade fans last night with chants of, “Champions of Europe; you’ll never sing that”.

Ignorance and arrogance of certain modern fans summed up in just seven words.

Indeed. I was reading an article about Union Berlin this morning, and this part stood out :

Five years ago Union were playing in the second tier of German football. On Wednesday they will make their Champions League debut against Real Madrid at the Bernabeu.

It is a journey made not with state backing, billionaire owners or - for the most part - household names in the playing squad. The club are entirely fan owned, financed by more than 40,000 supporter memberships, with those members making key decisions such as the appointment of the chief executive and board. The rise into the Champions League has not been universally welcomed by fans, particularly given the choice of venue.

"When we got to the Bundesliga, there were fears the club might change, but no competition or player is bigger than the club.

"I am worried about the Champions League. It has changed our club. It is a big-money league with teams who in our opinion do not belong there - Manchester City, Newcastle, PSG, the marketing club from Leipzig.

"That is not our league, that's why I have mixed feelings. The Olympic stadium is not home."

[kingb22]

Indeed. I was reading an article about Union Berlin this morning, and this part stood out :

Five years ago Union were playing in the second tier of German football. On Wednesday they will make their Champions League debut against Real Madrid at the Bernabeu.

It is a journey made not with state backing, billionaire owners or - for the most part - household names in the playing squad. The club are entirely fan owned, financed by more than 40,000 supporter memberships, with those members making key decisions such as the appointment of the chief executive and board. The rise into the Champions League has not been universally welcomed by fans, particularly given the choice of venue.

"When we got to the Bundesliga, there were fears the club might change, but no competition or player is bigger than the club.

"I am worried about the Champions League. It has changed our club. It is a big-money league with teams who in our opinion do not belong there - Manchester City, Newcastle, PSG, the marketing club from Leipzig.

"That is not our league, that's why I have mixed feelings. The Olympic stadium is not home."

Germany is a wonderful outlier in so many ways, Red Bull aside - much more geared to local fans than the other leagues. I know a big deal was made of Red Bull, but compared to the owners in most other countries they haven't been bad (although than their interclub relationship).

[cardbuster]

Oh come on, the Bundesliga is a money-maker, one-team-dominated show. Bayern holds all the cards, while the rest have their sappy stories of how clean and romantic they are. Bullcrap. If you're telling me that Union doesn't like the money and the attention they get from the Champions League, then I'm outta here.

[YayNJ]

German football will always retain a little 'romanticism' while it resists the plague of American and Middle Eastern owners.

Though David Blitzer has his little finger in Augsburg

[Ianhatcher]

Congrats everyone. We found the only guy on the planet who doesn’t like their studio show


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Literally by far and away the most entertaining show to watch.....

How can you hate that crew with Thierry and Kate as well.

I said nothing about the show. I said I don't care for Jamie and Micah. How do both of you get that wrong? :doh:

I very much enjoy Henry's commentary and how can you not like Kate. I find Jamie's takes ridiculous and the only good thing about it is he pretty much has to eat his words all the time. Micah is just loud.

[chiefs]

One example I can give of the hypocrisy of it all is Germany continuing to use gazprom as a sponsor despite ruzzias invasion of Ukraine in 2014. It wasn't until the full scale invasion in 2022 that gazprom was dropped. Tell me again about the evil soda company from Austria.

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[jmcca170]

I said nothing about the show. I said I don't care for Jamie and Micah. How do both of you get that wrong? :doh:

I very much enjoy Henry's commentary and how can you not like Kate. I find Jamie's takes ridiculous and the only good thing about it is he pretty much has to eat his words all the time. Micah is just loud.


An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us


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[Ianhatcher]

An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us


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Ok Paul Ryan.

[YayNJ]

Looks like Miami played Messi last night knowing he wasn't fit.

Now properly injured.

edit: also Alexi Lalas' recent outburst was just bizarre and ignorant - he suggests that Miami should have to advertise if Lionel Messi will be playing or not well in advance of Miami games so ultra-casuals and plastics don't get sad if they have to sit through the torture of a soccer game if Messi isn't playing. Yes, advertise your tactics and line-up to your opponents Alexi, that's it. It's football. Not an exhibit at a zoo.

[mfw13]

edit: also Alexi Lalas' recent outburst was just bizarre and ignorant - he suggests that Miami should have to advertise if Lionel Messi will be playing or not well in advance of Miami games so ultra-casuals and plastics don't get sad if they have to sit through the torture of a soccer game if Messi isn't playing.

It's not unreasonable given that prices for Miami matches have gone through the roof specifically because people want to see Messi play.

If you're paying $500 for a $50 ticket specifically to see Messi play, then wouldn't you be angry if he unexpectedly didn't play?

It's the same reason that the NBA is trying to reduce "load management"....people get pissed when they pay inflated ticket prices to see a superstar play and then he decides to "rest".

Your argument only makes sense if ticket prices for Messi games are the same as tickets for non-Messi games, which they most definitely are not.

[YayNJ]

It's not unreasonable given that prices for Miami matches have gone through the roof specifically because people want to see Messi play.

It's completely unreasonable, and ludicrous. Miami are there to play football. Martino is there to manage, and Messi is there to play.

Advertising your starting line up a week before your next game is utterly ludicrous.

If people are paying to see one person and not a game of football - tough #@#@#@#@ing #@#@#@#@. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world, in any other league, infact it wouldn't get suggested.

[yiguiri2002]

It's not unreasonable given that prices for Miami matches have gone through the roof specifically because people want to see Messi play.

If you're paying $500 for a $50 ticket specifically to see Messi play, then wouldn't you be angry if he unexpectedly didn't play?

It's the same reason that the NBA is trying to reduce "load management"....people get pissed when they pay inflated ticket prices to see a superstar play and then he decides to "rest".

Your argument only makes sense if ticket prices for Messi games are the same as tickets for non-Messi games, which they most definitely are not.

Watching Messi play would have been extremely easy by now. You could have booked a plane ticket, a hotel for a night and a ticket for an Argentina friendly for what it costs to see Messi in the MLS.

Unless we are talking about kids or teenagers, I don't feel sorry for people missing on Messi. And it's completely different than the NBA situation IMO

[mfw13]

If people are paying to see one person and not a game of football - tough #@#@#@#@ing #@#@#@#@. It wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world, in any other league, in fact it wouldn't get suggested.

That's simply not true. It happens with star athletes all the time. People buy tickets specifically to see all-time greats like Messi play.

Now you can make the argument that people who buy tickets to see a superstar play should know that there's a chance that said star might not play due to injury or other reasons, but people simply don't think that rationally.

Pre-Messi, Miami was one of the worst teams in MLS....the only reason people are buying tickets to see them play is to see Messi play.

[YayNJ]

That's simply not true. It happens with star athletes all the time. People buy tickets specifically to see all-time greats like Messi play.

No it does not, and you're starting to twist it now.

People might travel from across the world to see say, Barcelona play at the Camp Nou. I'm sure some people end up being miffed that say, Messi didn't play - but do you see anyone, anywhere demanding that Barcelona release their teamsheet weeks in advance so Kim from Korea doesn't get upset?

IT. DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

If people are spending incredible amounts of money to see Messi play, and only Messi, with no concern for anything else - it is at their OWN RISK. Special compensation shouldn't be made for a CHOICE they have made that impacts the league and teams. It's ludicrous and reeks of self-entitlement and spoilt brats. He is a footballer. He plays for a football team - they are not animals in a zoo.

[kobewhite]

No it does not, and you're starting to twist it now.

People might travel from across the world to see say, Barcelona play at the Camp Nou. I'm sure some people end up being miffed that say, Messi didn't play - but do you see anyone, anywhere demanding that Barcelona release their teamsheet weeks in advance so Kim from Korea doesn't get upset?

IT. DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

If people are spending incredible amounts of money to see Messi play, and only Messi, with no concern for anything else - it is at their OWN RISK. Special compensation shouldn't be made for a CHOICE they have made that impacts the league and teams. It's ludicrous and reeks of self-entitlement and spoilt brats. He is a footballer. He plays for a football team - they are not animals in a zoo.

I went to a Bulls game in Chicago against the Lakers and 90% of the people there were there to see LeBron. LeBron jerseys all over the place from Lakers, Cavs and Heat jerseys.

Its not unheard of for people wanting to go see a legend towards the end of their career before they retire when you may never get another chance...

[YayNJ]

I went to a Bulls game in Chicago against the Lakers and 90% of the people there were there to see LeBron. LeBron jerseys all over the place from Lakers, Cavs and Heat jerseys.

Its not unheard of for people wanting to go see a legend towards the end of their career before they retire when you may never get another chance...

You're comparing basketball to football.

Makes no sense.

[CiaranGQ]

When I make cultural observations on this site, it often goes down badly.

However, the Messi / Inter Miami issue feels somewhat emblematic of wider US vs Europe attitudes as regards soccer. Soccer is a team game and, at least in Europe (and Latin America) people support teams. It’s often passed down through generations, it’s often about place; it often cuts down sectional lines and it’s always about identity. Sometimes it is beautiful; sometimes it is ugly. Think River vs Boca; The Rangers vs Celtic; Real Sociedad & Athletic Bilbao as icons of the Basque identity etc. The list feels endless.

Teams have success and failure. Invariably, for most of us, we have more failure than success. However, we still support the teams; it’s a part of our make-up, our DNA. Players, even the good ones (esp. the good ones !), come and go. Our teams don’t or, at least, hopefully don’t.

I don’t get the cult of personality - of interest in a specific player over a team. That largely plays out in my collecting of memorabilia i.e. I seek out the team and the era, not the individual. Give me a team image over that of an individual player any day.



https://i.ibb.co/DgYLVJH/IMG-2699.jpg (https://ibb.co/zHFNnMT)


Maybe I am an outlier on this in the collecting world. For example, I personally would much prefer a card of the entire Brazil side of 1958 (incl Pele but also such legends as Zagallo, Garrincha and Dida) rather than a 1958 card of Pele. However, the collective market has a different view as the prices clearly demonstrate.


For avoidance of doubt, we are all different and we can collect and support teams or individual players in whatever way we we see fit. If it gives you joy, do it. It might not make sense to me but that’s okay and the same applies, or should apply, in reverse. I just hope enough of our European sport can somehow retain its soul in a “global market”. We will see.

[chiefs]

I think what Messi tickets thing is about is they are already offering returns on tickets. I pulled this from the SeatGeek app for a random NBA game on November. They are offering refunds now on tickets. I'm guessing this is why people are calling for Messi refunds. For SG it's not your money back but a credit on the site.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230922/14836c0cb7c37f2ee71233f17bf2a315.jpg

[YayNJ]

Returns because a player might not play :doh:

My god.

[kobewhite]

When I make cultural observations on this site, it often goes down badly.

However, the Messi / Inter Miami issue feels somewhat emblematic of wider US vs Europe attitudes as regards soccer. Soccer is a team game and, at least in Europe (and Latin America) people support teams. It’s often passed down through generations, it’s often about place; it often cuts down sectional lines and it’s always about identity. Sometimes it is beautiful; sometimes it is ugly. Think River vs Boca; The Rangers vs Celtic; Real Sociedad & Athletic Bilbao as icons of the Basque identity etc. The list feels endless.

Teams have success and failure. Invariably, for most of us, we have more failure than success. However, we still support the teams; it’s a part of our make-up, our DNA. Players, even the good ones (esp. the good ones !), come and go. Our teams don’t or, at least, hopefully don’t.

I don’t get the cult of personality - of interest in a specific player over a team. That largely plays out in my collecting of memorabilia i.e. I seek out the team and the era, not the individual. Give me a team image over that of an individual player any day.



https://i.ibb.co/DgYLVJH/IMG-2699.jpg (https://ibb.co/zHFNnMT)


Maybe I am an outlier on this in the collecting world. For example, I personally would much prefer a card of the entire Brazil side of 1958 (incl Pele but also such legends as Zagallo, Garrincha and Dida) rather than a 1958 card of Pele. However, the collective market has a different view as the prices clearly demonstrate.


For avoidance of doubt, we are all different and we can collect and support teams or individual players in whatever way we we see fit. If it gives you joy, do it. It might not make sense to me but that’s okay and the same applies, or should apply, in reverse. I just hope enough of our European sport can somehow retain its soul in a “global market”. We will see.

I agree that each person will collect a different way. I have a few team photo cards, but in general outside of Arsenal I don't feel connected to any team and just like specific players.

[chiefs]

Returns because a player might not play :doh:



My god.Is there dynamic pricing for premier League or is every game the same price? I believe at this point just about every US team has dynamic pricing based on the opponent. I'm not talking about resell, this price change comes from the team.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

[YayNJ]

Is there dynamic pricing for premier League or is every game the same price? I believe at this point just about every US team has dynamic pricing based on the opponent. I'm not talking about resell, this price change comes from the team.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk

There's different categories, CAT A and CAT B for example. There's not that much difference in the price of categories at most clubs, probably £5. They are defined at the start of the season.

Put it this way, if a club started charging more for tickets mid-season because they signed Messi in January, the fans would have burnt the stadium down to the ground by midnight and the owners would be strapped to a coffin pulled by horses to the nearest airport.

Dynamic pricing was tried by Derby County in England and at Hearts in Scotland years ago, probably a decade or more now, but not adopted. It will never take off in English (or European football really) while us old gits are still alive and able to turn up - DP ends up ripping off season ticket holders - the life blood of clubs, most of which in Europe are old, traditional family clubs. Dynamic pricing also caters for tourists and casuals - it doesn't breed a personal commitment in a club, or a long term financial commitment either. It also means that summer games in nice weather against better opposition is a pleasure only people with more money can enjoy, and the plebs are left attending games in the rain against bum teams - that goes against the very fabric of what the great equaliser is about.

That might be cool in the USA, where sport is tangibly.. shall we say, different to rest of the world. The American and Middle East invasion makes no secret that us 'legacy fans' are the bane of their goals, so I have no doubt that when a few more old gits die off, it will start creeping in along with time outs, advert breaks, no contact, and all the rest of the stuff :P

[YayNJ]

Balogun missed TWO penalties in his full debut for Monaco tonight.

They went on to lose 1-0.

[YayNJ]

When Leeds signed Georginio Rutter last year for £35m from the Bundesliga, it was way too much for him and he flopped hard. Seems like getting relegated and a proper pre-season has been the best thing for him career-wise. The freedom he's had since and the lack of pressure of a relegation scrap has seen him come out of his shell.

Can't see Leeds keeping him past this season if he carries on like this and we don't up :D He was linked with Real Madrid only two years ago. Starting to see why.

https://twitter.com/ChanniPatel/status/1705611149431939411

[YayNJ]

Chelsea!!!

bahaha

[mfw13]

Newcastle become the first team to have EIGHT different goal-scorers in a Premier League match, winning 8-0 at Sheffield Wednesday.

Of note is the fact that three of them are from players who pre-date the purchase of the club by the Saudis (Longstaff, Almiron, and Wilson).

[YayNJ]

Newcastle become the first team to have EIGHT different goal-scorers in a Premier League match, winning 8-0 at Sheffield Wednesday.

Of note is the fact that three of them are from players who pre-date the purchase of the club by the Saudis (Longstaff, Almiron, and Wilson).

They played Sheffield United!

[mfw13]

They played Sheffield United!

What's your point?

Spurs almost lost to them at home the previous week.
Man City only beat them 2-1 at Bramall Lane.

Newcastle are the first side to beat them by more than a goal this season....

[YayNJ]

What's your point?

My point is, you said they beat Sheffield Wednesday.

They played and thrashed Sheffield United.

Two completely different football clubs :D

[mfw13]

My point is, you said they beat Sheffield Wednesday.

They played and thrashed Sheffield United.

Two completely different football clubs :D

Gotcha....you're right...my bad....

Of course, they did also beat Sheffield Wednesday 8-0, but that was at home and about 20 years ago.....:D

[cardbuster]

What is going on at Chelsea? I can somewhat understand United's situation, but The Blues should make for an excellent economic case study, of how money laundering has brought a team from winning the Champions League to being an absolute joke, in less than two years.

[tupacgr13]

I used to like Pochettino but I am starting to lose faith in him. He just keeps repeating that he is building a project. They can't even score nowadays.

[YayNJ]

I used to like Pochettino but I am starting to lose faith in him. He just keeps repeating that he is building a project. They can't even score nowadays.

He's just parroting what he's told to.

Christopher Vivell and now Laurence Stewart are in charge of player recruitment at Chelsea. Vivell was from RB Salzburg, and Stewart from Monaco. Todd Boehly has tried to import in a culture without any of the necessary framework for it to be success.

Chelsea's activity in the market the past two years has been so bad and so ill advised I'm genuinely starting to think it must be part of some kind of swindle or scam.

[cardbuster]

It's pretty obvious that Abramovich is still taking money out of the club he was forced to "sell", by buying these hyper-inflated no-names.

[mfw13]

He's just parroting what he's told to.

Christopher Vivell and now Laurence Stewart are in charge of player recruitment at Chelsea. Vivell was from RB Salzburg, and Stewart from Monaco. Todd Boehly has tried to import in a culture without any of the necessary framework for it to be success.

Chelsea's activity in the market the past two years has been so bad and so ill advised I'm genuinely starting to think it must be part of some kind of swindle or scam.

Bingo.

Chelsea have just been throwing money at "hot" names, with no framework for building a coherent and functional squad.

That said, the fact that season starts three weeks before the transfer deadline also make it much more difficult for clubs (like Chelsea) that leave it until late in the window to build a squad, since a lot of the players brought in don't go through pre-season together.

Compare Chelsea with a club like Newcastle that got the major part of their business done early in the window, so that all their major incoming players (Tonali & Barnes) had chance to train with the club multiple times prior to the first match of the season. The only players Newcastle signed after the season started were Livramento & Hall....two backups who are being groomed for the future.

[YayNJ]

Sweet holy moleys....

Napoli's OFFICIAL account posted a video of Victor Osimhen mocking him and repeatedly calling him a 'coconut'

[tupacgr13]

Sweet holy moleys....

Napoli's OFFICIAL account posted a video of Victor Osimhen mocking him and repeatedly calling him a 'coconut'

Woah. I am really curious how this is going to end.